ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

It was my understanding Denise never underwent a kidney transplant.

I dunno though.

benni said:

No, it wasn't. I was at the last 2 concerts in Atlanta and he did not mention Denise once. He started these shows prior to Denise's passing. Denise was diagnosed with sclerosis encapsulating peritonitis about a year before her passing. This condition can be managed and is not fatal, but it is very painful. It can be treated with medications and/or surgery (if it's advanced). She did have kidney failure, however, she also had a kidney transplant, which can add another 35 + years to the life expectancy. She was not planning on dying when she did. She was undergoing dialysis, which can also lengthen life expectancy. I have a patient that has been on dialysis for 10 years and seems to be going strong. Doctors have told him he could expect another 20 years if his health continues the way it is right now. Setlists were based on songs Prince wanted to perform on the piano, and were not a dedication to Denise. In fact, according to the Piano and Microphone tour book, he was dedicating these shows to his father, not to Denise.

According to the news reports, even her wikipedia page, they are reporting that she had a kidney transplant in 1997. (But they could be wrong??) I was going by several news reports.

OldFriends4Sale said:

authorbest said:

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Because it doesn't go along with your premise that he was suicidal.

.

Touring as he had before with 3rd Eye Girl and NPG he was on his feet. He was in pain and that of course would cause him to need the pain pills. Being able to sit and play (doing something he never planned before) made it so he would not be in pain being on his feet, dancing, walking etc

.

You're not paying attention. I never said he broke up with Andy during the P&M shows. It was Andy that left Prince during the period of the release of AoA. Judith Hill came after Andy Allo. So Prince was dealing with the loss of the love and inspiration of Allo...

But I am paying attention and I don't have a suicide premise. Literally what you're saying makes no sense. Nobody goes on tours to get off drugs. That's nonsensical. I didn't say he broke up with her during the tour. I said he broke up with her years prior to it, which is true.

He was with Andy 2011-2013 and then they were on and off for awhile after.

PeggyO said:

LoveGalore said:

PeggyO said:

He was with Andy 2011-2013 and then they were on and off for awhile after.

Assuming we know, by any reasonable way, that these two people were "on and off" (much less when they were on and off), there are three years between that dating period and his death. By Judith's account, they were together for two years. Piano and a Mic has nothing to do with getting off drugs (hint: his hands were in excruciating pain and he was using drugs to help) or Andy Allo (he was already over a year deep into a relationship with another woman).

I agree, they were likely finished by 2014 though they were seen together at a poetry reading in 2015 and he called her after Moline.

No, I don't think P&M had anything to do with getting off drugs.

LoveGalore said:

Nobody goes on tours to get off drugs. That's nonsensical.

Ehhhh, the trappings of temptations on tour is one version of how things go, but countless rock bios describe that it's when the touring and recording stops and they're left on their own that the trouble begins. If Prince wanted to be around people he would have his own dance party. Or he'd work, and that meant recording and touring. When you burn both ends of the candle, you feel as if you better not stop. If Prince felt himself slipping away, one way to regain control over his life was to tour.

lavendardrummachine said:

LoveGalore said:

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Because it doesn't go along with your premise that he was suicidal.

.

Touring as he had before with 3rd Eye Girl and NPG he was on his feet. He was in pain and that of course would cause him to need the pain pills. Being able to sit and play (doing something he never planned before) made it so he would not be in pain being on his feet, dancing, walking etc

.

You're not paying attention. I never said he broke up with Andy during the P&M shows. It was Andy that left Prince during the period of the release of AoA. Judith Hill came after Andy Allo. So Prince was dealing with the loss of the love and inspiration of Allo...

But I am paying attention and I don't have a suicide premise. Literally what you're saying makes no sense. Nobody goes on tours to get off drugs. That's nonsensical. I didn't say he broke up with her during the tour. I said he broke up with her years prior to it, which is true.

It does make sense. Why did he wear those orthopedic shoes on stage? Why did he only wear heels sometimes?

Why out of the blue would Prince stop touring with his band and do a sit down Piano and mic show?

.

When I said the thing about Andy, it was in relation to Authorbest saying Prince was dealing with a pre-loss of Vanity

EnDoRpHn said:

authorbest said:

As far as sad, you shouldn't be. That is why Prince went to the elevator. He wants you to read the lyrics of Let's Go Crazy about the elevator. Are we going to let the elevator break us down? Oh no! Go crazy.

The correct lyric is “R we gonna let de-elevator bring us down?” (Prince said more than once that the original lyric was “the devil” but WBR wouldn’t let him say that.) You don’t know even know the lyrics to one of his most famous songs and you want us to believe this suicide note caca?

For some reason I never believed that. I don't think WB stopped him from saying the Devil lol

He saying about God, said Jesus, Annie Christian song and he said Devil in a few other songs like Mountains, and Christopher Tracey's Parade, not to mention a few others prior to that.

.

saying "the Devil" would have come across choppy, chunky.

.

And I too don't believe the suicide pact nonesense

This man wasn't planning on suicide

OldFriends4Sale said:

benni said:

authorbest said:

I said this before in another post but maybe it bears repeating here. The Piano and a Microphone Tour was his farewell tour to Denise Matthews. I've advised looking up setlists and studying the music.

Performers have to go on stage many times when they are probably not feeling it. However, in these shows, the audience saw a show of Prince at his rawest, most intense and heartfelt. He was pouring out his feelings in these shows. There was no fakery going on in these shows, quite the oposite. Anyone who saw a Piano and Microphone show live is quite privileged.

No, it wasn't. I was at the last 2 concerts in Atlanta and he did not mention Denise once. He started these shows prior to Denise's passing. Denise was diagnosed with sclerosis encapsulating peritonitis about a year before her passing. This condition can be managed and is not fatal, but it is very painful. It can be treated with medications and/or surgery (if it's advanced). She did have kidney failure, however, she also had a kidney transplant, which can add another 35 + years to the life expectancy. She was not planning on dying when she did. She was undergoing dialysis, which can also lengthen life expectancy. I have a patient that has been on dialysis for 10 years and seems to be going strong. Doctors have told him he could expect another 20 years if his health continues the way it is right now. Setlists were based on songs Prince wanted to perform on the piano, and were not a dedication to Denise. In fact, according to the Piano and Microphone tour book, he was dedicating these shows to his father, not to Denise.

Right, and the Piano & Microphone tour was scheduled as far back as October 2015 in Europe, but there were the Paris terrorist attacks that postponed it

In a December 2015 interview in anticipation of the tour, he said that "I'm doing it to challenge myself, I won't know what songs I'm going to do when I go on stage. I won't have to, because I won't have a band"

benni said:

authorbest said:

I said this before in another post but maybe it bears repeating here. The Piano and a Microphone Tour was his farewell tour to Denise Matthews. I've advised looking up setlists and studying the music.

Performers have to go on stage many times when they are probably not feeling it. However, in these shows, the audience saw a show of Prince at his rawest, most intense and heartfelt. He was pouring out his feelings in these shows. There was no fakery going on in these shows, quite the oposite. Anyone who saw a Piano and Microphone show live is quite privileged.

No, it wasn't. I was at the last 2 concerts in Atlanta and he did not mention Denise once. He started these shows prior to Denise's passing. Denise was diagnosed with sclerosis encapsulating peritonitis about a year before her passing. This condition can be managed and is not fatal, but it is very painful. It can be treated with medications and/or surgery (if it's advanced). She did have kidney failure, however, she also had a kidney transplant, which can add another 35 + years to the life expectancy. She was not planning on dying when she did. She was undergoing dialysis, which can also lengthen life expectancy. I have a patient that has been on dialysis for 10 years and seems to be going strong. Doctors have told him he could expect another 20 years if his health continues the way it is right now. Setlists were based on songs Prince wanted to perform on the piano, and were not a dedication to Denise. In fact, according to the Piano and Microphone tour book, he was dedicating these shows to his father, not to Denise.

I was going to be really hard on you, but I see you work with the elderly. I have a lot of respect for people who work with senior citizens. And I wish you well in your other ambitions.

I do have some medical background. Denise was diagnosed with SEC (Sclerosing Encapsulating Peritonitis) in September 2015. Here is link to an article. (Warning: graphic pictures)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5358900/

While rare, Denise had all the known risk factors. Long term Peritoneal Dialysis, Kidney Transplant, immunosuppressive treatment, mulitple surgeries. I know this from her statements and interviews.

She did have a kidney transplant. The best I can establish is occurred around 2001 as there was an interview in 2011 where she talked about having the surgery 10 years earlier. But I've found with her, sometimes she got the dates wrong but only by small amounts.

She also indicated that she did not do well on the immunosuppressive medication, her hair fell out and other complications, and had the kidney eventually removed. When that was, is unclear.

Kidney or any organ transplant is not a panacea for anything. It is a pretty drastic thing. You have to suppress your immune system in order to prevent rejection, which can cause other sickness and disease.

She went back on dialysis. In one of her last recorded evangelizing sessions, she talked about a permanent catheter in her chest for dialysis. She also was advising people not to fear going under anesthesia as she had done it so many times. She had been on dialysis for over 20 years already. She said she almost died numerous times.

This article also states mortality is over 50%. It is clear it was a fatal complication in Denise's case.

How I know it was only a matter of time in her case, is by the action of two people. Prince and another. But I can't talk about the other as it involves the bombsells. This is when Prince got thinner. He set out on his farewell tour, got his last single out Free Urself, his last album Hit & Run phase two, filmed his last video Judith Hill's Back In Time, her goodbye letter from Prince. Got in touch after many years with members of The Time, The Revolution, NPG. Gave money away to Denise's bandmates in Vanity 6. He was saying gooodbye in doing this.

Denise was quite an extraordinary person and lead an extraordinary life. After watching and listening to her interviews and preaching, I can see why he was so enamored despite what she did to him. She is quite charismatic in a goofy, funny and talkative sort of way. She had me listening for hours about God, the bible, sin - don't do what I did. Don't even think about it. She was saying things I didn't want to hear most of the time, yet there I was listening intently. She was still a very beautiful woman, given her age, everthing she had been through, all covered up like a nun, no make-up and face covered in glasses. She still had her little vanities like designer glasses, painted nails. LOL! Her insights on forgiveness him me hard.

I don't think Prince expected her to go so quickly as he would have never gone down under on the Piano and Microphone Tour. You say he got over it quickly. He didn't. His behavior was so bad his sound man, Scotty Baldwin, quit him because "he wasn't having any fun". After he finished his already scheduled dates down under Prince flew immediately to the San Francisco/Oakland area, where Denise live and stayed there for almost two weeks. He had three 'surprise' shows while there.

His next shows were in Canada, Toronto and Montreal. Denise was born in Niagra Falls, Ontario. Aparently, her mother and other extended family live in Toronto. Denise spent time also in Montreal pursuing her acting career before she met Prince.

He, I believe, intentionaly reschudeuled his Atlanta show to the 14th so he would be flying in the air in the early morning of the April anniversary of Denise's death. He claimed the flu and got a doctor's note. This is the musician's version of calling in sick.

While he did not mention Denise specifically at the shows that does not mean the shows were not about her. They were. The music he chose were mostly all songs about her and their relationship.

As far as dedication to his father. Well that still does not mean the musical content was not about Denise. Shelia wrote a book about herself and dedicated it to her parents. Mayte wrote a book about her life with Prince and dedicated it to Gia. Jay Corn wrote a book about the Prince death investigation and dedicated it to his daughter. Janet Jackson wrote a book about herself and dedicated it to Mike.

[Edited 12/31/19 7:54am]

authorbest said:

benni said:

No, it wasn't. I was at the last 2 concerts in Atlanta and he did not mention Denise once. He started these shows prior to Denise's passing. Denise was diagnosed with sclerosis encapsulating peritonitis about a year before her passing. This condition can be managed and is not fatal, but it is very painful. It can be treated with medications and/or surgery (if it's advanced). She did have kidney failure, however, she also had a kidney transplant, which can add another 35 + years to the life expectancy. She was not planning on dying when she did. She was undergoing dialysis, which can also lengthen life expectancy. I have a patient that has been on dialysis for 10 years and seems to be going strong. Doctors have told him he could expect another 20 years if his health continues the way it is right now. Setlists were based on songs Prince wanted to perform on the piano, and were not a dedication to Denise. In fact, according to the Piano and Microphone tour book, he was dedicating these shows to his father, not to Denise.

I was going to be really hard on you, but I see you work with the elderly. I have a lot of respect for people who work with senior citizens. And I wish you well in your other ambitions.

I do have some medical background. Denise was diagnosed with SEC (Sclerosing Encapsulating Peritonitis) in September 2015. Here is link to an article. (Warning: graphic pictures)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5358900/

While rare, Denise had all the known risk factors. Long term Peritoneal Dialysis, Kidney Transplant, immunosuppressive treatment, mulitple surgeries. I know this from her statements and interviews.

She did have a kidney transplant. The best I can establish is occurred around 2001 as there was an interview in 2011 where she talked about having the surgery 10 years earlier. But I've found with her, sometimes she got the dates wrong but only by small amounts.

She also indicated that she did not do well on the immunosuppressive medication, her hair fell out and other complications, and had the kidney eventually removed. When that was, is unclear.

Kidney or any organ transplant is not a panacea for anything. It is a pretty drastic thing. You have to suppress your immune system in order to prevent rejection, which can cause other sickness and disease.

She went back on dialysis. In one of her last recorded evangelizing sessions, she talked about a permanent catheter in her chest for dialysis. She also was advising people not to fear going under anesthesia as she had done it so many times. She had been on dialysis for over 20 years already. She said she almost died numerous times.

This article also states mortality is over 50%. It is clear it was a fatal complication in Denise's case.

How I know it was only a matter of time in her case, is by the action of two people. Prince and another. But I can't talk about the other as it involves the bombsells. This is when Prince got thinner. He set out on his farewell tour, got his last single out Free Urself, his last album Hit & Run phase two, filmed his last video Judith Hill's Back In Time, her goodbye letter from Prince. Got in touch after many years with members of The Time, The Revolution, NPG. Gave money away to Denise's bandmates in Vanity 6. He was saying gooodbye in doing this.

Denise was quite an extraordinary person and lead an extraordinary life. After watching and listening to her interviews and preaching, I can see why he was so enamored despite what she did to him. She is quite charismatic in a goofy, funny and talkative sort of way. She had me listening for hours about God, the bible, sin - don't do what I did. Don't even think about it. She was saying things I didn't want to hear most of the time, yet there I was listening intently. She was still a very beautiful woman, given her age, everthing she had been through, all covered up like a nun, no make-up and face covered in glasses. She still had her little vanities like designer glasses, painted nails. LOL! Her insights on forgiveness him me hard.

I don't think Prince expected her to go so quickly as he would have never gone down under on the Piano and Microphone Tour. You say he got over it quickly. He didn't. His behavior was so bad his sound man, Scotty Baldwin, quit him because "he wasn't having any fun". After he finished his already scheduled dates down under Prince flew immediately to the San Francisco/Oakland area, where Denise live and stayed there for almost two weeks. He had three 'surprise' shows while there.

His next shows were in Canada, Toronto and Montreal. Denise was born in Niagra Falls, Ontario. Aparently, her mother and other extended family live in Toronto. Denise spent time also in Montreal pursuing her acting career before she met Prince.

He, I believe, intentionaly reschudeuled his Atlanta show to the 14th so he would be flying in the air in the early morning of the April anniversary of Denise's death. He claimed the flu and got a doctor's note. This is the musician's version of calling in sick.

While he did not mention Denise specifically at the shows that does not mean the shows were not about her. They were. The music he chose were mostly all songs about her and their relationship.

As far as dedication to his father. Well that still does not mean the musical content was not about Denise. Shelia wrote a book about herself and dedicated it to her parents. Mayte wrote a book about her life with Prince and dedicated it to Gia. Jay Corn wrote a book about the Prince death investigation and dedicated it to his daughter. Janet Jackson wrote a book about herself and dedicated it to Mike.

[Edited 12/31/19 7:54am]

rdhull said:

authorbest said:

I was going to be really hard on you, but I see you work with the elderly. I have a lot of respect for people who work with senior citizens. And I wish you well in your other ambitions.

I do have some medical background. Denise was diagnosed with SEC (Sclerosing Encapsulating Peritonitis) in September 2015. Here is link to an article. (Warning: graphic pictures)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5358900/

While rare, Denise had all the known risk factors. Long term Peritoneal Dialysis, Kidney Transplant, immunosuppressive treatment, mulitple surgeries. I know this from her statements and interviews.

She did have a kidney transplant. The best I can establish is occurred around 2001 as there was an interview in 2011 where she talked about having the surgery 10 years earlier. But I've found with her, sometimes she got the dates wrong but only by small amounts.

She also indicated that she did not do well on the immunosuppressive medication, her hair fell out and other complications, and had the kidney eventually removed. When that was, is unclear.

Kidney or any organ transplant is not a panacea for anything. It is a pretty drastic thing. You have to suppress your immune system in order to prevent rejection, which can cause other sickness and disease.

She went back on dialysis. In one of her last recorded evangelizing sessions, she talked about a permanent catheter in her chest for dialysis. She also was advising people not to fear going under anesthesia as she had done it so many times. She had been on dialysis for over 20 years already. She said she almost died numerous times.

This article also states mortality is over 50%. It is clear it was a fatal complication in Denise's case.

How I know it was only a matter of time in her case, is by the action of two people. Prince and another. But I can't talk about the other as it involves the bombsells. This is when Prince got thinner. He set out on his farewell tour, got his last single out Free Urself, his last album Hit & Run phase two, filmed his last video Judith Hill's Back In Time, her goodbye letter from Prince. Got in touch after many years with members of The Time, The Revolution, NPG. Gave money away to Denise's bandmates in Vanity 6. He was saying gooodbye in doing this.

Denise was quite an extraordinary person and lead an extraordinary life. After watching and listening to her interviews and preaching, I can see why he was so enamored despite what she did to him. She is quite charismatic in a goofy, funny and talkative sort of way. She had me listening for hours about God, the bible, sin - don't do what I did. Don't even think about it. She was saying things I didn't want to hear most of the time, yet there I was listening intently. She was still a very beautiful woman, given her age, everthing she had been through, all covered up like a nun, no make-up and face covered in glasses. She still had her little vanities like designer glasses, painted nails. LOL! Her insights on forgiveness him me hard.

I don't think Prince expected her to go so quickly as he would have never gone down under on the Piano and Microphone Tour. You say he got over it quickly. He didn't. His behavior was so bad his sound man, Scotty Baldwin, quit him because "he wasn't having any fun". After he finished his already scheduled dates down under Prince flew immediately to the San Francisco/Oakland area, where Denise live and stayed there for almost two weeks. He had three 'surprise' shows while there.

His next shows were in Canada, Toronto and Montreal. Denise was born in Niagra Falls, Ontario. Aparently, her mother and other extended family live in Toronto. Denise spent time also in Montreal pursuing her acting career before she met Prince.

He, I believe, intentionaly reschudeuled his Atlanta show to the 14th so he would be flying in the air in the early morning of the April anniversary of Denise's death. He claimed the flu and got a doctor's note. This is the musician's version of calling in sick.

While he did not mention Denise specifically at the shows that does not mean the shows were not about her. They were. The music he chose were mostly all songs about her and their relationship.

As far as dedication to his father. Well that still does not mean the musical content was not about Denise. Shelia wrote a book about herself and dedicated it to her parents. Mayte wrote a book about her life with Prince and dedicated it to Gia. Jay Corn wrote a book about the Prince death investigation and dedicated it to his daughter. Janet Jackson wrote a book about herself and dedicated it to Mike.

[Edited 12/31/19 7:54am]

SNIP - OF4$

authorbest said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Morgaine said:

authorbest said:

Why are even on this thread then?

Why am I on this thread? Because I loved Prince. Because he & his music are the reason I have the life I do. Because even though I don't believe he killed himself, I also know it's a possibility. Because I find solace in talking to & reading opinions from others who loved him. You need more reasons?

OK. My comment was more for the orginal poster. But you seconded a post that was complaining about speculation about Prince's death on a thread that is basically about speculation and opinion. That was my question but you explained it.

authorbest said:

SNIP

LoveGalore said:

authorbest said:

OldFriends4Sale

SNIP

How long have you been on the Org?

Do you even know that the images mean? StretchArmstrong... stretching.
You better get thicker skin...

...

take a little time for yourself

Morgaine said:

Morgaine said:

LoveGalore said:

Ever seen that meme of "this is what suicide looks like" and it's smiling pics of people like Anthony Bourdain and Robin Williams? Suicidal people aren't all like Kurt Cobain. And the show must go on. The piano tour was easy on his hips, but that's not what he was complaining to Judith Hill about. It was his hands. And they were on fire so he was taking an incredible amount of pills (enough to need more prescriptions just for his nerves). Ruling out suicide does prince no favors, it only helps the people left behind. For an accident to make sense, prince would have had to have been extremely ignorant about the various drugs he was taking. Considering he was taking prescription meds for so long, I really can't believe a guy as smart as Prince just randomly forgot this bottle that he overdosed on a week prior had pills that nearly killed him. And by nearly, I mean he would have been dead if the plane took mere minutes longer to land. That is serious shit.

It's been pointed out several times on this thread that the (fake) pills found at PP were widely inconsistent in the amounts of fentanyl - some had none, some had hydrocodone, some only lidocain, some a mix. Also, they did not test every single pill from each bottle afaik so there's no way to know. There was no way for him to know how much fentanyl was in each. And he also made a statement that he thought what he was feeling in the hospital in Moline was after effects of Narcan, not an OD. I do not believe he would have intentionally ODd in front of Judith, either.

Some very good points here. Thanks.

rednblue said:

Morgaine said:

LoveGalore said: It's been pointed out several times on this thread that the (fake) pills found at PP were widely inconsistent in the amounts of fentanyl - some had none, some had hydrocodone, some only lidocain, some a mix. Also, they did not test every single pill from each bottle afaik so there's no way to know. There was no way for him to know how much fentanyl was in each. And he also made a statement that he thought what he was feeling in the hospital in Moline was after effects of Narcan, not an OD. I do not believe he would have intentionally ODd in front of Judith, either.

Some very good points here. Thanks.

Ok the pills had widely inconsistent amounts, some had none.

Yet, at death the amounts of Fentanyl in his body were 67.8 mcg in his blood, 435mcg in his liver and 14,000mcg in his stomach. So he took quite a lot of pills to have such an amount in his body given that some had none and the amounts were widely inconsistent. In a previous post I estimate that it was between 25-50 pills in a very short period of time a week after overdosing and after 6 days of no overdose. That is no accident. That is intent.

The police did send the pills for testing for the amount but the information was never released. So yes we are left to speculate on that.

And he also made a statement that he thought what he was feeling in the hospital in Moline was after effects of Narcan, not an OD.

I have read the police files numerous times and have never come accross such a statement. Can you advise where you got this information. I would like to know.

I do not believe he would have intentionally ODd in front of Judith, either.

You wouldn't think that he wouldn't, but that is what he seems to have done. He put her through a lot and she needs lots of love from Prince fans.

[Edited 12/31/19 10:08am]

LoveGalore said: