BartVanHemelen said:

Se7en said:

The time between P&M and Originals was less than 9 months, not quite "painfully long"!

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Sorry, but P&M is far too flimsy. Especially considering that it was basically an official release of something that was widely bootlegged decades ago.

Full stop, Bart. It is entirely bad form to complain about an official release of something we've had a bootleg of for years. If we collected bootlegs, that's on us. We couldn't wait till Christmas morning and peaked in the closet so of course we're not surprised on when we open our presents.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

(...)

I also noticed that the vocals of these songs seem to have been given the addition of a slight echoey effect which I don't recall in the original bootlegged versions. It seems to be throughout the album, perhaps they added this to make it seem more 'album like' or more consistent? If so, i'd rather they hadn't and had just left them as he intended.

Apart from this they chose well with most of the other songs. Anyhow there's my 2 cents but think it would help in they would be more exhaustive in finding the 'best' or pure original versions of a particular song out there rather than what seems to come to hand easily as it seems sometimes!

Although this in interesting, I feel that these really were demo guide vocals and he would never have intended them for release. I think it would be better for the estate now to focus on releasing the fully completed versions of the hundreds of songs in the vault that require no tinkering to the content (aside from a remaster).

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Exactly these things belong in the liner notes which are nowehere to be found in the 'standard' release which should be named the 'cheap' release.

djThunderfunk said:

It is entirely bad form to complain about an official release of something we've had a bootleg of for years.

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Hell no!

Especially if Originals sells less than P&M these benchmarks show what the market is like for the given content and given quality.

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They show that they do not know their markets very well.

udo said:

djThunderfunk said:

It is entirely bad form to complain about an official release of something we've had a bootleg of for years.

.

Hell no!

Especially if Originals sells less than P&M these benchmarks show what the market is like for the given content and given quality.

.

They show that they do not know their markets very well.

I would agree with many complaints about P&M. The fact that we had it on bootleg is not a valid argument, though. We had stolen material that we did not have permission to hear. We can't get mad when it gets an official release because we already have it. That's on us, not Prince, not the estate, and not the record labels.

djThunderfunk said:

udo said:

.

Hell no!

Especially if Originals sells less than P&M these benchmarks show what the market is like for the given content and given quality.

.

They show that they do not know their markets very well.

I would agree with many complaints about P&M. The fact that we had it on bootleg is not a valid argument, though. We had stolen material that we did not have permission to hear. We can't get mad when it gets an official release because we already have it. That's on us, not Prince, not the estate, and not the record labels.

.

They could have known we (hardcore fans) have the release.

So the enthousiasm from taht group is somewhat less.

Then there's the packaging, liner notes, pricing hierarchy and other issues.

It is all about knowing your market.

Not about simply idgging up a tape and thinking it will sell well.

The first release after his death should have made a BANG, at least some impact.

And looking at the numbers it really did not.

Also the first release after his death should be more logical.

What did he recently do? P&M 2016? The Black is the New Black thing?

They chose to pass on these.

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Sorry, but P&M is far too flimsy. Especially considering that it was basically an official release of something that was widely bootlegged decades ago.

Full stop, Bart. It is entirely bad form to complain about an official release of something we've had a bootleg of for years. If we collected bootlegs, that's on us. We couldn't wait till Christmas morning and peaked in the closet so of course we're not surprised on when we open our presents.

.

They have a massive archive to pick from. They deliberately went looking for a shoddy tape that was widely bootlegged.

djThunderfunk said:

udo said:

.

Hell no!

Especially if Originals sells less than P&M these benchmarks show what the market is like for the given content and given quality.

.

They show that they do not know their markets very well.

I would agree with many complaints about P&M. The fact that we had it on bootleg is not a valid argument, though.

.

It was released BECAUSE they knew it from a bootleg.

udo said:

djThunderfunk said:

I would agree with many complaints about P&M. The fact that we had it on bootleg is not a valid argument, though. We had stolen material that we did not have permission to hear. We can't get mad when it gets an official release because we already have it. That's on us, not Prince, not the estate, and not the record labels.

.

They could have known we (hardcore fans) have the release.

So the enthousiasm from taht group is somewhat less.

Then there's the packaging, liner notes, pricing hierarchy and other issues.

It is all about knowing your market.

Not about simply idgging up a tape and thinking it will sell well.

The first release after his death should have made a BANG, at least some impact.

And looking at the numbers it really did not.

Also the first release after his death should be more logical.

What did he recently do? P&M 2016? The Black is the New Black thing?

They chose to pass on these.

I already said I agree with most of the other complaints. Just not the "we already have it on bootleg" arguments. That single specific argument is bullshit. All the others are valid.

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

Full stop, Bart. It is entirely bad form to complain about an official release of something we've had a bootleg of for years. If we collected bootlegs, that's on us. We couldn't wait till Christmas morning and peaked in the closet so of course we're not surprised on when we open our presents.

.

They have a massive archive to pick from. They deliberately went looking for a shoddy tape that was widely bootlegged.

Right. They made a poor first choice with many better choices to pick from.

My point, AGAIN, complaining that we had it on bootleg is not a valid complaint.

We have no business complaining "I don't want this because I already bought it from someone who stole it from you."

Other complaints, such as the lousy choice for 1st posthumous release are indeed valid. Stick with those.

djThunderfunk said:

We have no business complaining "I don't want this because I already bought it from someone who stole it from you."

.

That's not what I said.

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

We have no business complaining "I don't want this because I already bought it from someone who stole it from you."

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That's not what I said.

Then what does this mean: "Especially considering that it was basically an official release of something that was widely bootlegged decades ago."

Are you or are you not complaining that they released something that was widely bootlegged? What is a valid reason for complaining about official releases of previously bootlegged content if you're not complaining that we already have it?

djThunderfunk said:

udo said:

.

Hell no!

Especially if Originals sells less than P&M these benchmarks show what the market is like for the given content and given quality.

.

They show that they do not know their markets very well.

I would agree with many complaints about P&M. The fact that we had it on bootleg is not a valid argument, though. We had stolen material that we did not have permission to hear. We can't get mad when it gets an official release because we already have it. That's on us, not Prince, not the estate, and not the record labels.

I understand the point you're making. In principle it's valid. But I think the other posters are looking at this from a practicle point-of-view. The Estate knew (or should have known) that P&M would not generate much excitment or buzz among its core audience (hardcore fans) specifically because, among other reasons, it had already been bootlegged. Why would you put something on the market you know won't sell?

In other words, people aren't likely to buy something they already have. The fact that they obtianed their original copy through illiciit means won't necarrily change that calculus. (I say "not necessarily" because people might be willing to purchase the official copy if the quality is far superior to their bootleg.) It was a bad business decision.

FrankieCoco1 said:

Moving on from the kerfuffle that’s going on! My Japan import arrived this morning and on opening it, I was surprised there was at least a lyric booklet present, in English and Japanese. Do the other ‘standard’ releases have lyrics?

The Target CD does not.

lurker316 said:

djThunderfunk said:

I would agree with many complaints about P&M. The fact that we had it on bootleg is not a valid argument, though. We had stolen material that we did not have permission to hear. We can't get mad when it gets an official release because we already have it. That's on us, not Prince, not the estate, and not the record labels.

I understand the point you're making. In principle it's valid. But I think the other posters are looking at this from a practicle point-of-view. The Estate knew (or should have known) that P&M would not generate much excitment or buzz among its core audience (hardcore fans) specifically because, among other reasons, it had already been bootlegged. Why would you put something on the market you know won't sell?

In other words, people aren't likely to buy something they already have. The fact that they obtianed their original copy through illiciit means won't necarrily change that calculus. (I say "not necessarily" because people might be willing to purchase the official copy if the quality is far superior to their bootleg.) It was a bad business decision.

I'm standing by this and know many here will agree:

Any "fan" that collects bootlegs (I have for 30+ years) who does not buy an official release because they already have it on bootleg... sucks!

I already made clear I find ALL the other arguments against the choice of P&M valid, AND, I agree with most of them.

djThunderfunk said:

FrankieCoco1 said:

Moving on from the kerfuffle that’s going on! My Japan import arrived this morning and on opening it, I was surprised there was at least a lyric booklet present, in English and Japanese. Do the other ‘standard’ releases have lyrics?

The Target CD does not.

None of them do! not just the TARGET exclusive.

getxxxx said:

djThunderfunk said:

The Target CD does not.

None of them do! not just the TARGET exclusive.

That's what I thought, but, I could only speak for what I actually have. Didn't want to speculate.

djThunderfunk said:

Any "fan" that collects bootlegs (I have for 30+ years) who does not buy an official release because they already have it on bootleg... sucks!

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Which I didn't say. You've made up something and then got angry about what you've made up.

.

Why is it so hard to admit that?

how is it bootleggers /elitists have better quality than whats released?

jfenster said:

how is it bootleggers /elitists have better quality than whats released?

https://www.google.com/ur...1755669278

[Edited 7/2/19 15:11pm]

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

Any "fan" that collects bootlegs (I have for 30+ years) who does not buy an official release because they already have it on bootleg... sucks!

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Which I didn't say. You've made up something and then got angry about what you've made up.

.

Why is it so hard to admit that?

Angry? Cool, I didn't know you could suss out emotions from text. Nice super power.

Seriously though, if I've misinterpreted you then I apologize. If I was wrong, then what did you mean by complaining about it being "an official release of something that was widely bootlegged decades ago"?

FrankieCoco1 said:

Moving on from the kerfuffle that’s going on! My Japan import arrived this morning and on opening it, I was surprised there was at least a lyric booklet present, in English and Japanese. Do the other ‘standard’ releases have lyrics?

I love japanese releases: all my Prince's CD's are from Japan. Always something special: jewel case (Ultimate Rave), bonus track (Originals), lyrics (all albums), sticker (Love Symbol), EP's (Gett Off, Cream, Scandalous Sex Suite...).

Ramzoo said:

FrankieCoco1 said:

Moving on from the kerfuffle that’s going on! My Japan import arrived this morning and on opening it, I was surprised there was at least a lyric booklet present, in English and Japanese. Do the other ‘standard’ releases have lyrics?

I love japanese releases: all my Prince's CD's are from Japan. Always something special: jewel case (Ultimate Rave), bonus track (Originals), lyrics (all albums), sticker (Love Symbol), EP's (Gett Off, Cream, Scandalous Sex Suite...).

And it's said that in Japan they have better mastering and manfacturing, so the quality is almost always better.

FrankieCoco1 said:

I'm wondering which songs/tapes had that infamous "W for weak" label on them...

[Edited 7/3/19 6:23am]

rdhull said:

jfenster said:

how is it bootleggers /elitists have better quality than whats released?

https://www.google.com/ur...1755669278

[Edited 7/2/19 15:11pm]

whats the implication?

jfenster said:

Ramzoo said:

FrankieCoco1 said:

Moving on from the kerfuffle that’s going on! My Japan import arrived this morning and on opening it, I was surprised there was at least a lyric booklet present, in English and Japanese. Do the other ‘standard’ releases have lyrics?

I love japanese releases: all my Prince's CD's are from Japan. Always something special: jewel case (Ultimate Rave), bonus track (Originals), lyrics (all albums), sticker (Love Symbol), EP's (Gett Off, Cream, Scandalous Sex Suite...).

.

The bonus track was also on a US CD, those EPs are merely copies of the US releases with on occasion some barely related tracks added.

finally got mine from barnes and noble, along with the microphone one, not that i had to but why not support the man with real cash? these days everthings all over the net as soon as it's out.