URL: https://prince.org/msg/7/459740

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Forums > Prince: Music and More > ‘Originals’ Album: His Versions of Songs He Gave to Other Artists (EXCLUSIVE) - Part 2
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Thread started 06/07/19 9:04am

luv4u

Moderator

moderator

‘Originals’ Album: His Versions of Songs He Gave to Other Artists (EXCLUSIVE) - Part 2

Since the first thread was getting way tooooo long I have created this thread to continue the discussion music

1st thread - https://prince.org/msg/7/459188

************

"Originals" #PRINCE set to be released via @wbr & @tidal on June 7th exclusive to Tidal then a physical cd release June 21st with vinyl a month later.



Source: https://variety.com/2019/music/news/prince-estate-to-release-originals-album-songs-he-gave-to-other-artists-1203197451/

APRIL 24, 2019 6:42PM PT

It’s a rare singer-songwriter who can just give away undeniable hits like “Nothing Compares 2 U,” “Manic Monday” and “The Glamorous Life” to other artists, but that’s exactly what Prince did throughout his 40-year career.


And on his birthday, June 7, the late artist’s estate, in partnership with Warner Bros. Records and Tidal, will release “Originals,” a 15-track album featuring 14 previously unreleased recordings by Prince of such songs. The tracks were selected collaboratively by Troy Carter, on behalf of The Prince Estate, and Jay-Z. (The full tracklist appears below.)

On June 21, Warner Bros. will release the recordings, sourced directly from Prince’s archive of “Vault” recordings, via all download and streaming partners and physically on CD, while 180 gram 2LP and limited edition Deluxe CD+2LP formats will follow on July 19th. (Pre-order the album here.)




Pre-order link: https://store.prince.com/store

You can also purchase from Electric Fetus: https://electricfetus.com/




image1.png?w=462&h=462




Song Title First Released by (Artist: Album – year) Year of Prince’s Recording Included on Originals

1. Sex Shooter Apollonia 6: Apollonia 6 – 1984 1983

2. Jungle Love The Time: Ice Cream Castle – 1984 1983

3. Manic Monday The Bangles: Different Light – 1985 1984

4. Noon Rendezvous Sheila E.: The Glamorous Life – 1984 1984

5. Make-Up Vanity 6: Vanity 6 – 1982 1981

6. 100 MPH Mazarati: Mazarati – 1986 1984

7. You’re My Love Kenny Rogers: They Don’t Make Them Like They Used To – 1986 1982

8. Holly Rock Sheila E.: Krush Groove (OST) – 1985 1985

9. Baby, You’re a Trip Jill Jones: Jill Jones – 1987 1982

10. The Glamorous Life Sheila E.: The Glamorous Life – 1984 1983

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too The Time: What Time Is It? – 1982 1982

12. Love… Thy Will Be Done Martika: Martika’s Kitchen – 1991 1991

13. Dear Michaelangelo Sheila E.: Romance 1600 – 1985 1985

14. Wouldn’t You Love to Love Me? Taja Sevelle: Taja Sevelle – 1987 1981

15. Nothing Compares 2 U The Family: The Family – 1985 1984


58419189_686098058488707_3604402061644398592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeE0oM1b7zbM1alNGbd8HoGDVxpqE9ravYwccVmmiWrBkppHNQ3erKxR0L9Elh6H-rwXbrEZYy1auPlr378vy7GeqhHr-AZJe-15Gc5X7DBfUA&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=e69c9c8c7608afcc3067c891812f74e3&oe=5D38ED0C


***************

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
Reply #1 posted 06/07/19 9:19am

soladeo1

Listening to Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me on repeat. I LOVE the
raw, Dirty Mind-Esque rythym guitar!!! Also, the joyous instrumental coda at the end - PURE MAJESTY!!!

This is the greatest version of the song bar none.
Reply #2 posted 06/07/19 9:25am

jfenster

wondering how the estate would think this would be a big seller to non-prince fans

Reply #3 posted 06/07/19 9:26am

rdhull

jfenster said:

wondering how the estate would think this would be a big seller to non-prince fans


Who says that’s what they’re thinking?
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #4 posted 06/07/19 9:29am

soladeo1

rdhull said:

jfenster said:

wondering how the estate would think this would be a big seller to non-prince fans


Who says that’s what they’re thinking?


I think they’re pretty excited at interest and enthusiasm, frankly. And even better - the critical reaction has been rapturous!
Reply #5 posted 06/07/19 9:34am

rdhull

soladeo1 said:

rdhull said:


Who says that’s what they’re thinking?


I think they’re pretty excited at interest and enthusiasm, frankly. And even better - the critical reaction has been rapturous!

Ok but that doesn’t exactly mean what I asked. I understand it’s getting marketing push that’s better than previous releases which shows they have faith in the release, etc but I dont think they are expecting blockbuster
[Edited 6/7/19 9:37am]
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #6 posted 06/07/19 9:38am

RodeoSchro

I am loving this very much! "Baby, You're a Trip" was mind-blowing.

What a great gift for today!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
Reply #7 posted 06/07/19 9:40am

Strive

It's interesting how the leaked version of The Glamorous Life is 8:05

Wish we got the full version of that and Sex Shooter. Outside of those two, I'm really enjoying Originals. It should be a good gateway for people that only know Prince in passing.
no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #8 posted 06/07/19 9:44am

Se7en

I've listened to it a few times today. So far, I like it a lot. A lot more than I liked Piano & A Microphone.

I've read the Frankenstein theories (which are probably true in many cases) but I'm leaving that for the more qualified people to hash out.

I'll be buying it, if for nothing else than for the Prince vocals alone.

Reply #9 posted 06/07/19 9:59am

OnlyNDaUsa

Yes several of the songs are mixed from the multi-track masters. this was covered in one of interviews here. They said they had to as the tapes they had were not as good as they would have liked. If they would have they may have sounded even more like bootlegs... and then we would be crying over that.

We all know the truth. I doubt I will ever completely agree with any release... but I have to step back and remember that it is what it is... and be happy.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #10 posted 06/07/19 10:09am

fabriziovenerandi

Shot review: I love the album. Stop. Except Would You Love to Love Me, for sounds reason.

But I was wondering:
The thing that worried me is the low quality of so many songs: the voice in the songs of The Time, the cymbals in 100MPH, the whole Wouldn't You Love To Love Me ...

Why the songs of the eighties put by Prince in Crystal Ball or Splash had excellent sounds, while these are imperfect? The fear is that many songs that we were listening in low quality via bootleg, exist *only* in low quality, and Prince cared little for his past materials.

Either the Estate is incompetent, or the Vault is not the paradise we hoped for.

What do you think?

Reply #11 posted 06/07/19 10:31am

Se7en

Strive said:

It's interesting how the leaked version of The Glamorous Life is 8:05 Wish we got the full version of that and Sex Shooter. Outside of those two, I'm really enjoying Originals. It should be a good gateway for people that only know Prince in passing.


One thing I meant to check out on this version of The Glamorouse Life: does this version have the part where Prince kinda misses his lyrics in the beginning of the 2nd verse?

Reply #12 posted 06/07/19 10:32am

homesquid

This a good release for die hards, which I used to be until about the year 2000. Qualitywise it's hit and miss tho'. For every gem ("Love They Will be Done") you have a flat, subpar take that should have stayed in the vault ("Manic Monday"). I'll cherry pick the tunes I like but overall this is the kind of album I'd probably only listen to three times. Let's hope they do better with the next release. It's medicore. In just about every case these versions are inferior to the better known versions.

"P&A 1983" I think was special because ut captured Prince in a private, lowkey setting. This? Meh.

[Edited 6/7/19 10:32am]

Reply #13 posted 06/07/19 10:36am

OldFriends4Sale

moderator

I'm very greatful for this. Cannot wait to own a physical copy

1. 100MPH: loving the extra guitar work ****
2. Baby You're A Trip: -is cool, never got into before, a good vocal workout, I enjoy hearing Prince singing the 'spoken' part **
3. Dear Michaelangelo: -always loved the song, love hearing the extra instrumentations, loving the drumming/linn. The opening I love, a combination of this and the released version would be perfection *****
4. Gigolos Get Lonely Too -Morris definately did a better job vocally, but this is one of very rare times we hear Prince singing lead on a Time piece ***
5. Holly Rock -never cared for the song so much, but loving this with the extra Minni sound and the use of the Romance 1600 band, it's wilder. I wish he would not have pulled back on the released version *****
6. Jungle Love -eh **
7. Love-Thy Will Be Done -nice, has that airy 90s feel with a touch of Batman-esque
8. Make Up -always loved this one, Susan or Prince great song *****
9. Manic Monday -should have been released through the Prince camp, and this confirms it even more
10. Noon Rendezvous -enjoy the evolution, simple cool ***
11. NC2U -heard before, I like the PR era sound ***
12. Sex Shooter -enjoy the evolution, nothing to shout about ***
13. The Glamorous Life -enjoy the evolution, Sheila E kicks it up 5 notches ***
14. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me -I LOVE this, the feel of that 79/80 period with some extra purple electricity and pump *****
15. My Love is 4Ever -I actually appreciate this, feels like a 1977 demo ***

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
Reply #14 posted 06/07/19 10:36am

Se7en

rdhull said:

soladeo1 said:
I think they’re pretty excited at interest and enthusiasm, frankly. And even better - the critical reaction has been rapturous!
Ok but that doesn’t exactly mean what I asked. I understand it’s getting marketing push that’s better than previous releases which shows they have faith in the release, etc but I dont think they are expecting blockbuster [Edited 6/7/19 9:37am]


Most of the releases so far have focused on a very narrow time in Prince's career. Call it the "Purple Era" if you will.

- Moonbeam Levels on 4Ever
- Purple Rain Deluxe
- NC2U
- Piano & A Microphone 1983
- Originals

The Estate is probably thinking (and maybe rightfully so?) that this is what the masses want to hear. Anything related to when Prince was the most commercially viable. 1983 and 1984.

Reply #15 posted 06/07/19 10:37am

lion88

I really like the album. Favourites so far, Manic Monday, Noon Rendezvous, Baby you're a Trip (the ending, wow!) and Love..thy will be done. I like the whistle in The Glamorous Life. Some strange choices, like Make-up, Holly Rock,Dear Michaelangelo where would prefered others songs. But I think the idea was to show his diversity.

Reply #16 posted 06/07/19 10:44am

OnlyNDaUsa

Se7en said:

 



Strive said:


It's interesting how the leaked version of The Glamorous Life is 8:05 Wish we got the full version of that and Sex Shooter. Outside of those two, I'm really enjoying Originals. It should be a good gateway for people that only know Prince in passing.


One thing I meant to check out on this version of The Glamorouse Life:  does this version have the part where Prince kinda misses his lyrics in the beginning of the 2nd verse?


 


 



It sounds like a diffrent take...no mistake
Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #17 posted 06/07/19 10:46am

billymeade

fabriziovenerandi said:

Shot review: I love the album. Stop. Except Would You Love to Love Me, for sounds reason.

But I was wondering:
The thing that worried me is the low quality of so many songs: the voice in the songs of The Time, the cymbals in 100MPH, the whole Wouldn't You Love To Love Me ...

Why the songs of the eighties put by Prince in Crystal Ball or Splash had excellent sounds, while these are imperfect? The fear is that many songs that we were listening in low quality via bootleg, exist *only* in low quality, and Prince cared little for his past materials.

Either the Estate is incompetent, or the Vault is not the paradise we hoped for.

What do you think?

Most of the songs on Crystal Ball were planned for an album at some point, so they were mastered properly. Most of the songs on Originals were just meant as guides, that's why they sound quiet and "flat" at times.

Reply #18 posted 06/07/19 10:48am

Romeoblu

Your My Love and Wouldn't You Love To Love me are making me wish for a Pop rock album from 1981/82.

I love this time when I have a new Prince album, it was a long day at work waiting to be able listen again after my intial very early morning listen on my drive into work.

Reply #19 posted 06/07/19 10:51am

Graycap23

I'm really digging this joint..........it's like bringing these songs back 2 life and adding a limb or 2.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
Reply #20 posted 06/07/19 10:52am

lion88

My physical copy (which would flow)

1. Sex Shooter

2. Jungle Love

3. Manic Monday

4. Noon Rendezvous

5. G. Spot

6. The Bird

7. If I love U 2 night

8. Nasty Girl

9. Sugar Walls

10. Mutiny

11. Cool

12. Baby you're a trip

13. The Glamorous Life

14 The screams of Passion

15 Nothing compares 2 U

Reply #21 posted 06/07/19 11:03am

DarkKnight1

Even better than I expected. Feeling pretty lucky to have this album.
(Insert something clever here)
Reply #22 posted 06/07/19 11:07am

fabriziovenerandi

billymeade said:

Most of the songs on Crystal Ball were planned for an album at some point, so they were mastered properly. Most of the songs on Originals were just meant as guides, that's why they sound quiet and "flat" at times.

.

Good answer, thank you.

Reply #23 posted 06/07/19 11:23am

AhPook

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm very greatful for this. Cannot wait to own a physical copy

1. 100MPH: loving the extra guitar work ****
2. Baby You're A Trip: -is cool, never got into before, a good vocal workout, I enjoy hearing Prince singing the 'spoken' part **
3. Dear Michaelangelo: -always loved the song, love hearing the extra instrumentations, loving the drumming/linn. The opening I love, a combination of this and the released version would be perfection *****
4. Gigolos Get Lonely Too -Morris definately did a better job vocally, but this is one of very rare times we hear Prince singing lead on a Time piece ***
5. Holly Rock -never cared for the song so much, but loving this with the extra Minni sound and the use of the Romance 1600 band, it's wilder. I wish he would not have pulled back on the released version *****
6. Jungle Love -eh **
7. Love-Thy Will Be Done -nice, has that airy 90s feel with a touch of Batman-esque
8. Make Up -always loved this one, Susan or Prince great song *****
9. Manic Monday -should have been released through the Prince camp, and this confirms it even more
10. Noon Rendezvous -enjoy the evolution, simple cool ***
11. NC2U -heard before, I like the PR era sound ***
12. Sex Shooter -enjoy the evolution, nothing to shout about ***
13. The Glamorous Life -enjoy the evolution, Sheila E kicks it up 5 notches ***
14. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me -I LOVE this, the feel of that 79/80 period with some extra purple electricity and pump *****
15. My Love is 4Ever -I actually appreciate this, feels like a 1977 demo ***

If Nothing Compares 2 U is the same version that was released as a single a few months ago, I'm really curious about the Cinematic Remix.

Reply #24 posted 06/07/19 11:29am

IstenSzek

boogie

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #25 posted 06/07/19 11:34am

BartVanHemelen

fabriziovenerandi said:

Why the songs of the eighties put by Prince in Crystal Ball or Splash had excellent sounds

.

CB was brickwalled to death.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #26 posted 06/07/19 11:38am

JAYJOE

I do like this album for what it is, but it's been 3 years I'm ready for the unreleased properly finished and mastered tracks that Prince himself was happy with...... e.g.

Turn Me Loose

We Live 2 Get Funky

Welcome 2 America

Born To Die

Adonis & Bathsheba

Same Page, Different Book

Check The Record

All My Dreams

In A Large Room With No Light

The Grand Progression

Days Of Wild (Studio)

Others Here With Us

Prince & The Band

Train

And the list continues.........

he might have better luck if he was drummin with his Dick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply #27 posted 06/07/19 11:44am

TheEnglishGent

JAYJOE said:

I do like this album for what it is, but it's been 3 years I'm ready for the unreleased properly finished and mastered tracks that Prince himself was happy with...... e.g.

Turn Me Loose

We Live 2 Get Funky

Welcome 2 America

Born To Die

Adonis & Bathsheba

Same Page, Different Book

Check The Record

All My Dreams

In A Large Room With No Light

The Grand Progression

Days Of Wild (Studio)

Others Here With Us

Prince & The Band

Train

And the list continues.........

There are all great but I really want stuff we don't already have and haven't even heard of. A lot of these are already out and about in general circulation in excellent quality.

Wasn't Same Page Different Book an official release?

[Edited 6/7/19 11:45am]

RIP sad
Reply #28 posted 06/07/19 11:45am

ian

Really loving this collection so far. Such a shame to have it as Tidal exclusive on June 7th, I'd have loved to go out and buy a physical copy of it today of all days. Anyway, let's hope they do a second volume.

Reply #29 posted 06/07/19 11:49am

OldFriends4Sale

moderator

ian said:

Really loving this collection so far. Such a shame to have it as Tidal exclusive on June 7th, I'd have loved to go out and buy a physical copy of it today of all days. Anyway, let's hope they do a second volume.

Exactly

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
Reply #30 posted 06/07/19 11:50am

rdhull

ian said:

Really loving this collection so far. Such a shame to have it as Tidal exclusive on June 7th, I'd have loved to go out and buy a physical copy of it today of all days. Anyway, let's hope they do a second volume.

Yeah, the Tidal preview should have been 2 weeks ago and today the hard copy release etc.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #31 posted 06/07/19 11:51am

djThunderfunk

BartVanHemelen said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

Why the songs of the eighties put by Prince in Crystal Ball or Splash had excellent sounds

.

CB was brickwalled to death.


Originals is brickwalled to death, too.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #32 posted 06/07/19 11:52am

MIRvmn

Originals is a really good album and some favorites are Manic Monday, Holly Rock, Dear Michaelangelo, 100MPH, Make-Up, Gigolos Get Lonely Too and Wouldn’t You Love to Love Me? I rate it 4/5 biggrin I'm glad they released this and hope there will be a Vol.2,3,4 etc.
[Edited 6/7/19 12:04pm]
We are living in Orwell's 1984
Reply #33 posted 06/07/19 12:04pm

JAYJOE

TheEnglishGent said:

JAYJOE said:

I do like this album for what it is, but it's been 3 years I'm ready for the unreleased properly finished and mastered tracks that Prince himself was happy with...... e.g.

Turn Me Loose

We Live 2 Get Funky

Welcome 2 America

Born To Die

Adonis & Bathsheba

Same Page, Different Book

Check The Record

All My Dreams

In A Large Room With No Light

The Grand Progression

Days Of Wild (Studio)

Others Here With Us

Prince & The Band

Train

And the list continues.........

There are all great but I really want stuff we don't already have and haven't even heard of. A lot of these are already out and about in general circulation in excellent quality.

Wasn't Same Page Different Book an official release?

[Edited 6/7/19 11:45am]

Oh I agree on the the totally unheard tracks like. Born 2 Die, Check The Record, Strawberries etc this was just showing some of the unreleased tracks that we know are out there that have yet to be officially released by the estate, Same Page was only streamed so quality was low

he might have better luck if he was drummin with his Dick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply #34 posted 06/07/19 12:18pm

Se7en

ian said:

Really loving this collection so far. Such a shame to have it as Tidal exclusive on June 7th, I'd have loved to go out and buy a physical copy of it today of all days. Anyway, let's hope they do a second volume.


The Estate has written about this quite a few times, about this album wrapping up their legal obligation to TIDAL. It will be interesting to see if they continue to work with TIDAL when they don't legally have to . . .

Reply #35 posted 06/07/19 12:31pm

OnlyNDaUsa

Is this the first album to be released (such as it is) on his birthday? I know some singles (incuding soft and wet) were but not an album.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #36 posted 06/07/19 12:34pm

mnfriend

I told myself
Stop being an old lady and sign up for Tidal.
And now I can’t get in
and have to wait.
Reply #37 posted 06/07/19 1:26pm

TheEnglishGent

mnfriend said:

I told myself Stop being an old lady and sign up for Tidal. And now I can’t get in and have to wait.

What's stopping you getting in?

RIP sad
Reply #38 posted 06/07/19 1:29pm

donnyenglish

I absolutely love the album and I'm known to be critical. I think this is an album for fans because we get to hear his unfinished product and compare it with the finished versions. Getting this glimpse into the studio helps us see a side of his genius that we rarely get to see. I'm not sure that this release is for the masses because his vocals are mostly guide tracks not meant for release so some of the vocals are not very polished or sung in a style to fit the artist that it is intended for. A prime example would be Gigolos, which I was initially very excited to hear. However, one I heard it, I realized that there is a reason why he gave it to Morris. Candidly, Morris did Gigolos and Jungle Love much better, which is no diss of Prince. It just shows that Prince is a great songwriter and can write songs with other artists in mind. That Kenny Rogers song also sounds very weird in Prince's voice, but it works for Kenny. With that said, he should have kept that striking version of Neon Rendevous.

Reply #39 posted 06/07/19 1:30pm

fabriziovenerandi

BartVanHemelen said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

Why the songs of the eighties put by Prince in Crystal Ball or Splash had excellent sounds

.

CB was brickwalled to death.

.

Most of the '80 songs on Crystal Ball have a better sound that Originals, IMHO

Reply #40 posted 06/07/19 1:56pm

mnfriend

TheEnglishGent said:

 



mnfriend said:


I told myself Stop being an old lady and sign up for Tidal. And now I can’t get in and have to wait.

What's stopping you getting in?




(Me most likely.)

Like reading the reviews.
[Edited 6/7/19 13:57pm]
Reply #41 posted 06/07/19 2:07pm

fabriziovenerandi

A review from the current with a Duane comment track by track (except Would You Love to Love Me, strange!)

https://www.thecurrent.or...-originals

Reply #42 posted 06/07/19 2:12pm

BartVanHemelen

New Variety article, featuring interviews with Susannah Melvoin, Jill Jones and Peggy McCreary: https://variety.com/2019/...203235532/

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #43 posted 06/07/19 2:29pm

rnb

I love the album! I listen to it at 12am CST! I didn't think I wanted to hear Prince sing Sex Shooter or Makeup but I was pleasantly surprised that these two songs was one of the highlights!

I was disappointed with Jungle Love and Gigolos get lonely too! I just felt Morris's vocal performance was stronger than Prince's! I was also disappointed with Noon Rendezous! Not that anything was wrong with it! Since that particular song is my favorite song Prince ever performed live (1984 bday being the best)- I have very high expectation for that track!

I was also pleasantly surprised by the Kenny Roger track! I never heard it before and I thought he did a great job on that! I also love the last two tracks Wouldn't you love to love me and Nothing compares to you! I just wished the sound quality on Wouldn't you love to love me was better!

The only complaint I had with this release was that on Tidal's track information they have all of the tracks for Shelia E as her being the sole songwriter! We all know that the lyrics to Glamourous Life, Noon Rendezous and Holly Rock was written solely by Prince! They also have Love...they would be done songwriters as Morris Day and Jesse Johnson- we also know that is not true!

Hopefully, this is just a Tidal error and this mistake is not on the actual physical LP/CD! However, if it is then I could see this being another court entanglement case about folks not getting proper points, credits and everybody wanting to get their piece of that purple pie! Causing a legal preciding every time an album is released - preventing any future releases because it would be tied down in some court case!

I mean, come on, if they cannot get the songwriter information correct on those songs - this is the prediction of the future with that Pandora's box being unleash when the songs that no one ever heard of before is released! To the Prince Estate and the folks in charge of vaults releases - let's get those little things correct before they become a snow ball effect and things are out of control!
[Edited 6/7/19 17:44pm]
Reply #44 posted 06/07/19 2:35pm

Wolfie87

BartVanHemelen said:

New Variety article, featuring interviews with Susannah Melvoin, Jill Jones and Peggy McCreary: https://variety.com/2019/...203235532/


"How Come U Don’t Call Me Anymore?” It’s such a great song. The long version is gonna come out soon, we faded it out." eek eek

Reply #45 posted 06/07/19 2:45pm

mikeyaddict

Ok. Solid release. The best so far. However, I’m familiar with these songs and for once not from the bootlegs - from the originals by Vanity, Sheila, The Time, Mazerati, Jill etc. A new Prince album used to surprise you, feel strange - take a minute to blow your mind. But a good release.
.
But now, enough filler and kicking the can down the road. Time for hit n run 3 or Black is the new. Something new. Everything is reissue / legacy / old stuff - think P would be on board with this? No, honour him by releasing new, challenging and different things.
.
And did fucks sake, release a single. Love thy will or manic get my vote.
Comin str8 outta Preston...
Reply #46 posted 06/07/19 2:52pm

EmmaMcG

mnfriend said:

I told myself
Stop being an old lady and sign up for Tidal.
And now I can’t get in
and have to wait.


Just download it illegally. That's what I did.
Reply #47 posted 06/07/19 3:00pm

lastdecember

rdhull said:

soladeo1 said:
I think they’re pretty excited at interest and enthusiasm, frankly. And even better - the critical reaction has been rapturous!
Ok but that doesn’t exactly mean what I asked. I understand it’s getting marketing push that’s better than previous releases which shows they have faith in the release, etc but I dont think they are expecting blockbuster [Edited 6/7/19 9:37am]

Why would they think this is going to appeal to anyone other than die hards? I mean can we all get serious and let go of the idea that NEW FANS are going to suddenly get into prince now. The way media and people are now with having the attention span of about a week, this album needed to come out days after his death if they thought in terms of "Blockbuster" sales. this is for the fans as will ANY reissues, nothing is going to be huge at all, the remaster of PURPLE RAIN his biggest most wide appealing work ever, sold less than 1% of what the original sold, about 180,000 overall sold of it since it came out.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
Reply #48 posted 06/07/19 3:25pm

Wolfie87

lastdecember said:

rdhull said:

soladeo1 said: Ok but that doesn’t exactly mean what I asked. I understand it’s getting marketing push that’s better than previous releases which shows they have faith in the release, etc but I dont think they are expecting blockbuster [Edited 6/7/19 9:37am]

Why would they think this is going to appeal to anyone other than die hards? I mean can we all get serious and let go of the idea that NEW FANS are going to suddenly get into prince now. The way media and people are now with having the attention span of about a week, this album needed to come out days after his death if they thought in terms of "Blockbuster" sales. this is for the fans as will ANY reissues, nothing is going to be huge at all, the remaster of PURPLE RAIN his biggest most wide appealing work ever, sold less than 1% of what the original sold, about 180,000 overall sold of it since it came out.

DJ's need to spin "Erotic City" in all nightclubs for starters, should be a dancefloor standard. Then you will have a new crowd already.

Reply #49 posted 06/07/19 3:41pm

stillwaiting

BartVanHemelen said:

New Variety article, featuring interviews with Susannah Melvoin, Jill Jones and Peggy McCreary: https://variety.com/2019/...203235532/

Hay, I always wanted to ask about your signature:

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.

First, maybe you should Google "NPG Music Club" and see that it has been discontinued for some time now, and a non-existent Club could not authorize your post even if it was in existence. Also, NO WARRANTIES? Really?

I have NEVER EVER EVER SEEN A POST ON ANY WEBSITE that did not have a three page attachment including the Warranty. All posts have Warranties. Why would you not include such a common thing with your online posts?

But I do have to say your posts on Originals is award winning, in depth, and without errors, even if you forgot to include the Warranty. Great Job.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #50 posted 06/07/19 3:42pm

Apollo85

Wouldn't You Love To Love Me.......I can't stop dancing. What a track.

Reply #51 posted 06/07/19 4:12pm

rdhull

Wolfie87 said:

lastdecember said:

Why would they think this is going to appeal to anyone other than die hards? I mean can we all get serious and let go of the idea that NEW FANS are going to suddenly get into prince now. The way media and people are now with having the attention span of about a week, this album needed to come out days after his death if they thought in terms of "Blockbuster" sales. this is for the fans as will ANY reissues, nothing is going to be huge at all, the remaster of PURPLE RAIN his biggest most wide appealing work ever, sold less than 1% of what the original sold, about 180,000 overall sold of it since it came out.

DJ's need to spin "Erotic City" in all nightclubs for starters, should be a dancefloor standard. Then you will have a new crowd already.

Nobody who goes clubbing (the youth) is tryna hear no dann Erotic City.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #52 posted 06/07/19 4:25pm

Wolfie87

rdhull said:

Wolfie87 said:

DJ's need to spin "Erotic City" in all nightclubs for starters, should be a dancefloor standard. Then you will have a new crowd already.

Nobody who goes clubbing (the youth) is tryna hear no dann Erotic City.

Our clubs always keep a mix of variety from different decades. Good music is good music. So your statement is wrong. 17 Days would be great on a dancefloor as well.

Reply #53 posted 06/07/19 4:46pm

FragileUndertow

Sound quality is not the best. i hear hiss on tracks..

My first thoughts if these are Originals why is jill jones on baby your a trip.

Sheila on Holly Rock confuse Frankenstein mixes i guess lol

it its what it is a guess razz

Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
Reply #54 posted 06/07/19 5:36pm

SquirrelMeat

I’m really enjoying it. For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Sure it’s really annoying they put the edited versions on there (I’m guessing this is deliberate for future sales, as there is room on the disc), and the vocal mix is a little low on tracks like Manic and Make-up, but I doubt that would be a deliberate act by the engineers/producers.

But the vocals on You’re My Love, Noon Rendezvous and Gigolos are a delight.

As for the ‘Frankenstein’ version argument, it’s too early to tell if this is even an issue. This issue would go away if estate simply provided technical information, plus, untouched versions may come at a later date, in more hardcore comprehensive sets.

If you look at various mainstream archive releases, it’s not uncommon for parts from various takes or mix downs to be combined; The most obvious being the Beatles anthology. They made a better version using individual unreleased takes and mixes and combining them. But they were clear in the notes what they had done.

If you know the original take/demo versions (For example, ‘You’ve got to hide your love away’ or ‘Strawberry Fields’), then you know the result on Anthology is superior, but it’s not an archival record of ‘as it was recorded’. Interestingly, it was the band members that were happy to sign off these alternatives. Who’s to say Prince wouldn’t have been the same?

Equally, I didn’t have a problem with the MJ’s Xscape approach, because they made the originals available.

Both these approaches are fine, if they are up front about it.

I love the information ‘elite’ collectors have provided on the org over the years, but I do think their argument out legacy destruction is misguided. I think judgement gets clouded when the exclusivity of their ‘stash’ is eroded by official releases.

Lets take ‘Manic Monday’ as an example. The new album’s purpose is to let people hear Prince singing the song he gave to the Bangles. It was never sold as ‘here’s the demo/take 1/final take’. The job of the producers is to make it as sonically pleasing as possible, not to pander to completists who want to argue over the one (and often incomplete) reference point they have.

Ironically, the best way to ensure that the labels put stuff out untouched without the wraith of the fan base, is to ensure the fan base already knows what it should sound like, and not hoarded by a few. Releasing snippets to try and prove a point doesn’t prove a label wrong. It’s a pretentious assumption that their version of events, and how the archive should be handled, must be correct, and sounds more like a school yard argument.

If you want people to know how original mixes are sounded, let them free, rather than lecture those who enjoy what’s put out.

I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.

The stance is hypocritical. The people who supplied and handle the elite material are breaking the very code Prince expected people to uphold. But when the table is turned, and the exclusivity of their stash is threatened, they get defensive.

If the ‘legacy’ is being eroded, the elite traders are as much to blame as the estate, as they are criticising from the shadows, rather than blowing the issue out in the open.

If an elite trader tells me a track has been altered but won’t share it; verses a bootlegger, and now, the estate who will provide me with ‘a’ version, I’m going to side with the bootlegger and estate every time.

One side is giving me a rant, the other is giving me Prince music. I’ll side with the music.

.
Reply #55 posted 06/07/19 6:04pm

radicalrojo

Favorite Songs from the set:

1. Love... Thy Will Be Done

2. Make-Up

3. Gigolos Get Lonely Too

4. Holly Rock

5. You're My Love

Honorable Mention:

1. Wouldn't You Love To Love Me

So damn eclectic. I like this release if only just for the way it reminds me of his prowess in such a specific way. Like, "LTWBD," shouldn't be on this for all the reasons outlined, but none of the songs really cohere anyways. I'd rather have the song than not. WYLTLM is also amazing, just wish it could have the same clarity the rest have.

My one nitpick: the cover and title of this release are terrible. It looks like a bad bootleg. I liked how they did P&M83 in terms of optics but this is on some "graphic design is my passion" type ish.

Reply #56 posted 06/07/19 6:12pm

FUNKNROLL



Solid release. They shoulda named the album "Portraits in Pronoun Courage" biggrin



Kind of striking hearing him sing from female perspective. He was famous for his gender-bending aesthetics. But rarely sang such things first person. Not implying anything other than he was someone who was so possessed of creative vision, he fearlessly went where it led. Gotta admire the commitment.



Standouts include:



Noon Rendezvous -- definitive. Proof others just can't channel his raw intimacy.



Make-Up -- classic schizo new wave. How do you make 100 wasps in a tin can sound funky? Nobody did it better.



100 MPH -- solid jam.



You're My Love -- Thanks for coming out folks. Buffet's closing in 10. wink Look, I know this song was meant for the Coward of the County. But seriously, was Michael McDonald first pick? I can imagine Prince aping McDonald's husky soulful tone in that same way people made fun of McDonald.



Holly Rock -- Sheila's version is hard enough to find. Glad to have the original. Calls to mind Black Album's raw cartoonish funk.



Baby You're A Trip -- love Jill. But I like this version better. His falsetto rap at the end is EVERY thing. wink



The Glamorous Life -- Rare instance where the official release is superior. Still, this is fun.



Gigolos Get Lonely Too -- Never was fascinated with the official. The persona is funny but distracts. But this original makes the music more accessible and enjoyable.



Love Thy Will Be Done -- Such a cherished and affecting song. The layered vocals are intense. What a vision. Martika's take on the original is still safe.



Dear Michaelangelo -- Love to hear that guitar grinding. Takes you back and calls to mind a backlit, otherworldly Prince seducing you in a smoky void. You want to call out stranger danger. But the phone in your hand turns into a rose as he glares and beckons "Don't die, don't die... without love..."



Wouldn't You Love to Love Me -- AWW YEAH. The funk is heavy on this "All Skate!" throwback jam. Calls to mind everything I love about the jamming tail end of I Wanna Be Your Lover. Wish the sound quality was better.



Nothing Compares 2 U -- eh, yeah. Hard to imagine what anybody might do with this song. Can you imagine receiving this original as "gift" and faced with the challenge, "okay, your turn." WHY WOULD YOU PAINT A BETTER SMILE ON THE MONA LISA? wink



lgbp966uzky21.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f3d0eb378cb6c5f949bb9189eb158f3aa525fb7c

[Edited 6/7/19 18:37pm]

Reply #57 posted 06/07/19 6:23pm

joyinrepetition

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm very greatful for this. Cannot wait to own a physical copy

1. 100MPH: loving the extra guitar work ****
2. Baby You're A Trip: -is cool, never got into before, a good vocal workout, I enjoy hearing Prince singing the 'spoken' part **
3. Dear Michaelangelo: -always loved the song, love hearing the extra instrumentations, loving the drumming/linn. The opening I love, a combination of this and the released version would be perfection *****
4. Gigolos Get Lonely Too -Morris definately did a better job vocally, but this is one of very rare times we hear Prince singing lead on a Time piece ***
5. Holly Rock -never cared for the song so much, but loving this with the extra Minni sound and the use of the Romance 1600 band, it's wilder. I wish he would not have pulled back on the released version *****
6. Jungle Love -eh **
7. Love-Thy Will Be Done -nice, has that airy 90s feel with a touch of Batman-esque
8. Make Up -always loved this one, Susan or Prince great song *****
9. Manic Monday -should have been released through the Prince camp, and this confirms it even more
10. Noon Rendezvous -enjoy the evolution, simple cool ***
11. NC2U -heard before, I like the PR era sound ***
12. Sex Shooter -enjoy the evolution, nothing to shout about ***
13. The Glamorous Life -enjoy the evolution, Sheila E kicks it up 5 notches ***
14. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me -I LOVE this, the feel of that 79/80 period with some extra purple electricity and pump *****
15. My Love is 4Ever -I actually appreciate this, feels like a 1977 demo ***

Being a little hard on your star rating, no? Remember this is Prince laying down a vocal track for the proteges to follow. I'm sure had he released these songs under his name, Glamorous Life and Gigolos would be fire! I think it's cool how Prince mimics the voice of the person who he was giving the track to, especially Morris' voice! Classic Prince!

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
Reply #58 posted 06/07/19 6:55pm

FUNKNROLL

SquirrelMeat said:

I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.

Preach. At this rate (of releases) we'll all get to hear Prince perform originals, as intended, in the afterlife. wink

Reply #59 posted 06/07/19 7:01pm

dbpdexter

joyinrepetition said:

 



OldFriends4Sale said:


 


I'm very greatful for this. Cannot wait to own a physical copy


 


1. 100MPH: loving the extra guitar work ****
2. Baby You're A Trip: -is cool, never got into before, a good vocal workout, I enjoy hearing Prince singing the 'spoken' part **
3. Dear Michaelangelo: -always loved the song, love hearing the extra instrumentations, loving the drumming/linn. The opening I love, a combination of this and the released version would be perfection *****
4. Gigolos Get Lonely Too -Morris definately did a better job vocally, but this is one of very rare times we hear Prince singing lead on a Time piece ***
5. Holly Rock -never cared for the song so much, but loving this with the extra Minni sound and the use of the Romance 1600 band, it's wilder. I wish he would not have pulled back on the released version *****
6. Jungle Love -eh **
7. Love-Thy Will Be Done -nice, has that airy 90s feel with a touch of Batman-esque
8. Make Up -always loved this one, Susan or Prince great song *****
9. Manic Monday -should have been released through the Prince camp, and this confirms it even more
10. Noon Rendezvous -enjoy the evolution, simple cool ***
11. NC2U -heard before, I like the PR era sound ***
12. Sex Shooter -enjoy the evolution, nothing to shout about ***
13. The Glamorous Life -enjoy the evolution, Sheila E kicks it up 5 notches ***
14. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me -I LOVE this, the feel of that 79/80 period with some extra purple electricity and pump *****
15. My Love is 4Ever -I actually appreciate this, feels like a 1977 demo ***



Being a little hard on your star rating, no?  Remember this is Prince laying down a vocal track for the proteges to follow.  I'm sure had he released these songs under his name, Glamorous Life p Gigolos would be fire!  I think it's cool how Prince mimics the voice of the person who he was giving the track to, especially Morris' voice!  Classic Prince!



I agree, these are not the prince versions these are the vocal guide versions.if you listen to the boot version of baby you’re a trip it sounds better than the version on originals because it’s his version but that still doesn’t excuse the sound quality issues
AKA PDEXTER
Reply #60 posted 06/07/19 7:13pm

soladeo1

Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me....those cascading chords and harmonics in the coda...my gosh...endless joy and exuberance!!
[Edited 6/7/19 19:14pm]
Reply #61 posted 06/07/19 7:20pm

FUNKNROLL

soladeo1 said:

Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me....those cascading chords and harmonics in the coda...my gosh...endless joy and exuberance!!

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYTNpkPIQGenvov7I26R-gHSaVgFfY6vzb1j74CULmCIaHup2w

[Edited 6/7/19 19:21pm]

Reply #62 posted 06/07/19 9:30pm

funkycomic

AhPook said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm very greatful for this. Cannot wait to own a physical copy

1. 100MPH: loving the extra guitar work ****
2. Baby You're A Trip: -is cool, never got into before, a good vocal workout, I enjoy hearing Prince singing the 'spoken' part **
3. Dear Michaelangelo: -always loved the song, love hearing the extra instrumentations, loving the drumming/linn. The opening I love, a combination of this and the released version would be perfection *****
4. Gigolos Get Lonely Too -Morris definately did a better job vocally, but this is one of very rare times we hear Prince singing lead on a Time piece ***
5. Holly Rock -never cared for the song so much, but loving this with the extra Minni sound and the use of the Romance 1600 band, it's wilder. I wish he would not have pulled back on the released version *****
6. Jungle Love -eh **
7. Love-Thy Will Be Done -nice, has that airy 90s feel with a touch of Batman-esque
8. Make Up -always loved this one, Susan or Prince great song *****
9. Manic Monday -should have been released through the Prince camp, and this confirms it even more
10. Noon Rendezvous -enjoy the evolution, simple cool ***
11. NC2U -heard before, I like the PR era sound ***
12. Sex Shooter -enjoy the evolution, nothing to shout about ***
13. The Glamorous Life -enjoy the evolution, Sheila E kicks it up 5 notches ***
14. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me -I LOVE this, the feel of that 79/80 period with some extra purple electricity and pump *****
15. My Love is 4Ever -I actually appreciate this, feels like a 1977 demo ***

If Nothing Compares 2 U is the same version that was released as a single a few months ago, I'm really curious about the Cinematic Remix.

you have track 15 wrong. Youre My Love is the song that you are missing.

Reply #63 posted 06/07/19 9:59pm

camilleisfunky

Can't get enough of Make Up
We should all say 'thank you, Prince' in unison for the beautiful music he left here on earth for us.
Sure, the Estate can't please everyone. But the music is outstanding. Thank you, Prince.
Reply #64 posted 06/07/19 10:47pm

rupertpupkin

"Sex Shooter" is a big suprise : and after having heard recently Vanity 6's version, Prince sining it falsetto then the spoken vocals is priceless and very disturbing... (lol)

it sounds like if Prince use the same backing track he would use for Vanity 6 version. That just that it speed-up a little bit, increasing the pitch to sing it in falsetto.

Too bad it has an early fade out. I'm pretty sure that it was far more "extended"...

perhaps one day through Eye records...?

"Manic Monday" : after the Eye "version" with Lisa vocals, this version is just a gem.

an existential question : the backing vocals sounds to me like Lisa and Wendy, but could some "low vocals" backing vocals being recorded by one of the Bangles singers (don't remember which one of the Bangles did song the backing vocals on Bangles's "Manic Monday") but these low-vocals backing vocals harmonies are almost a duplicate of the Bangles' singles; that's why I'm really curious to read more info about this...

"Noon Rendez Vous" wow. just wow. the heartbeat, the classical piano. the almost a cappela arrangement. When I thought that the live version of Noon Rendez Vous for Prince's birthday show was one of the best ever, this one is such a discovery after Prince's own version of "Nothing Compares 2 U".

This sounds even more like a fragile ballad and obviously a declaration of love to "that little girl over there"...

well, this is one of the best official release so far IMHO

Reply #65 posted 06/07/19 10:50pm

eduJ

2 things... Prince's take on "Make Up" is a gender-bending New Wave wet dream! Would have rivaled any hit by Missing Persons or Berlin back in the day. And the previously circulating "Glamorous Life" demo was WAY more raw/funky than the one here -- have the two different demos been discussed? What gives?

Reply #66 posted 06/07/19 10:59pm

eduJ

camilleisfunky said:

Can't get enough of Make Up We should all say 'thank you, Prince' in unison for the beautiful music he left here on earth for us. Sure, the Estate can't please everyone. But the music is outstanding. Thank you, Prince.

This! Everyday.

Reply #67 posted 06/07/19 11:04pm

rupertpupkin

though I enjoy all these gems (this is IMHO the best post-hum-pas-glob official release so far) I would be curious to learn what are the exact recording date and if and how these tracks are free of overdubs.

For instance was "Sex Shooter" cut to be shorter like that by Prince himself.

We all know that a lot of post-overdubs were often done by Prince, and some overdubs could be contemporary from the original track, some could be recorded later... just curious...

whatever, this is such a beautiful and eclectic collection of pure gems...

Reply #68 posted 06/07/19 11:08pm

jeffreymiller

SquirrelMeat said:

I’m really enjoying it. For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Sure it’s really annoying they put the edited versions on there (I’m guessing this is deliberate for future sales, as there is room on the disc), and the vocal mix is a little low on tracks like Manic and Make-up, but I doubt that would be a deliberate act by the engineers/producers.

But the vocals on You’re My Love, Noon Rendezvous and Gigolos are a delight.


As for the ‘Frankenstein’ version argument, it’s too early to tell if this is even an issue. This issue would go away if estate simply provided technical information, plus, untouched versions may come at a later date, in more hardcore comprehensive sets.


If you look at various mainstream archive releases, it’s not uncommon for parts from various takes or mix downs to be combined; The most obvious being the Beatles anthology. They made a better version using individual unreleased takes and mixes and combining them. But they were clear in the notes what they had done.


If you know the original take/demo versions (For example, ‘You’ve got to hide your love away’ or ‘Strawberry Fields’), then you know the result on Anthology is superior, but it’s not an archival record of ‘as it was recorded’. Interestingly, it was the band members that were happy to sign off these alternatives. Who’s to say Prince wouldn’t have been the same?


Equally, I didn’t have a problem with the MJ’s Xscape approach, because they made the originals available.


Both these approaches are fine, if they are up front about it.

I love the information ‘elite’ collectors have provided on the org over the years, but I do think their argument out legacy destruction is misguided. I think judgement gets clouded when the exclusivity of their ‘stash’ is eroded by official releases.

Lets take ‘Manic Monday’ as an example. The new album’s purpose is to let people hear Prince singing the song he gave to the Bangles. It was never sold as ‘here’s the demo/take 1/final take’. The job of the producers is to make it as sonically pleasing as possible, not to pander to completists who want to argue over the one (and often incomplete) reference point they have.

Ironically, the best way to ensure that the labels put stuff out untouched without the wraith of the fan base, is to ensure the fan base already knows what it should sound like, and not hoarded by a few. Releasing snippets to try and prove a point doesn’t prove a label wrong. It’s a pretentious assumption that their version of events, and how the archive should be handled, must be correct, and sounds more like a school yard argument.

If you want people to know how original mixes are sounded, let them free, rather than lecture those who enjoy what’s put out.


I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.


The stance is hypocritical. The people who supplied and handle the elite material are breaking the very code Prince expected people to uphold. But when the table is turned, and the exclusivity of their stash is threatened, they get defensive.


If the ‘legacy’ is being eroded, the elite traders are as much to blame as the estate, as they are criticising from the shadows, rather than blowing the issue out in the open.


If an elite trader tells me a track has been altered but won’t share it; verses a bootlegger, and now, the estate who will provide me with ‘a’ version, I’m going to side with the bootlegger and estate every time.


One side is giving me a rant, the other is giving me Prince music. I’ll side with the music.


 



Exactly!! Amen,brother.
Reply #69 posted 06/07/19 11:08pm

jeffreymiller

SquirrelMeat said:

I’m really enjoying it. For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Sure it’s really annoying they put the edited versions on there (I’m guessing this is deliberate for future sales, as there is room on the disc), and the vocal mix is a little low on tracks like Manic and Make-up, but I doubt that would be a deliberate act by the engineers/producers.

But the vocals on You’re My Love, Noon Rendezvous and Gigolos are a delight.


As for the ‘Frankenstein’ version argument, it’s too early to tell if this is even an issue. This issue would go away if estate simply provided technical information, plus, untouched versions may come at a later date, in more hardcore comprehensive sets.


If you look at various mainstream archive releases, it’s not uncommon for parts from various takes or mix downs to be combined; The most obvious being the Beatles anthology. They made a better version using individual unreleased takes and mixes and combining them. But they were clear in the notes what they had done.


If you know the original take/demo versions (For example, ‘You’ve got to hide your love away’ or ‘Strawberry Fields’), then you know the result on Anthology is superior, but it’s not an archival record of ‘as it was recorded’. Interestingly, it was the band members that were happy to sign off these alternatives. Who’s to say Prince wouldn’t have been the same?


Equally, I didn’t have a problem with the MJ’s Xscape approach, because they made the originals available.


Both these approaches are fine, if they are up front about it.

I love the information ‘elite’ collectors have provided on the org over the years, but I do think their argument out legacy destruction is misguided. I think judgement gets clouded when the exclusivity of their ‘stash’ is eroded by official releases.

Lets take ‘Manic Monday’ as an example. The new album’s purpose is to let people hear Prince singing the song he gave to the Bangles. It was never sold as ‘here’s the demo/take 1/final take’. The job of the producers is to make it as sonically pleasing as possible, not to pander to completists who want to argue over the one (and often incomplete) reference point they have.

Ironically, the best way to ensure that the labels put stuff out untouched without the wraith of the fan base, is to ensure the fan base already knows what it should sound like, and not hoarded by a few. Releasing snippets to try and prove a point doesn’t prove a label wrong. It’s a pretentious assumption that their version of events, and how the archive should be handled, must be correct, and sounds more like a school yard argument.

If you want people to know how original mixes are sounded, let them free, rather than lecture those who enjoy what’s put out.


I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.


The stance is hypocritical. The people who supplied and handle the elite material are breaking the very code Prince expected people to uphold. But when the table is turned, and the exclusivity of their stash is threatened, they get defensive.


If the ‘legacy’ is being eroded, the elite traders are as much to blame as the estate, as they are criticising from the shadows, rather than blowing the issue out in the open.


If an elite trader tells me a track has been altered but won’t share it; verses a bootlegger, and now, the estate who will provide me with ‘a’ version, I’m going to side with the bootlegger and estate every time.


One side is giving me a rant, the other is giving me Prince music. I’ll side with the music.


 



Exactly!! Amen,brother.
Reply #70 posted 06/07/19 11:14pm

WhisperingDandelions

jfenster said:

wondering how the estate would think this would be a big seller to non-prince fans

If not this, what? 1999 deluxe? Purple Rain deluxe pt. II and III? The very very best-of? I actually feel like this has the most appeal out of their 2-3 viable "big seller" options. The hardcore fans are the only ones who pay for multi-CD "deluxe" sets of music they've already owned for 25 years. This manages to offer major hits that casual, hardcore and non fans don't already have in a succint easily-digestible single-disc package.

That being said, it is 2019, there's a lower ceiling for "big sellers" than 20+ years ago, so...

[Edited 6/7/19 23:27pm]

Reply #71 posted 06/07/19 11:34pm

Romeoblu

SquirrelMeat said:

I’m really enjoying it. For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Sure it’s really annoying they put the edited versions on there (I’m guessing this is deliberate for future sales, as there is room on the disc), and the vocal mix is a little low on tracks like Manic and Make-up, but I doubt that would be a deliberate act by the engineers/producers.

But the vocals on You’re My Love, Noon Rendezvous and Gigolos are a delight.


As for the ‘Frankenstein’ version argument, it’s too early to tell if this is even an issue. This issue would go away if estate simply provided technical information, plus, untouched versions may come at a later date, in more hardcore comprehensive sets.


If you look at various mainstream archive releases, it’s not uncommon for parts from various takes or mix downs to be combined; The most obvious being the Beatles anthology. They made a better version using individual unreleased takes and mixes and combining them. But they were clear in the notes what they had done.


If you know the original take/demo versions (For example, ‘You’ve got to hide your love away’ or ‘Strawberry Fields’), then you know the result on Anthology is superior, but it’s not an archival record of ‘as it was recorded’. Interestingly, it was the band members that were happy to sign off these alternatives. Who’s to say Prince wouldn’t have been the same?


Equally, I didn’t have a problem with the MJ’s Xscape approach, because they made the originals available.


Both these approaches are fine, if they are up front about it.

I love the information ‘elite’ collectors have provided on the org over the years, but I do think their argument out legacy destruction is misguided. I think judgement gets clouded when the exclusivity of their ‘stash’ is eroded by official releases.

Lets take ‘Manic Monday’ as an example. The new album’s purpose is to let people hear Prince singing the song he gave to the Bangles. It was never sold as ‘here’s the demo/take 1/final take’. The job of the producers is to make it as sonically pleasing as possible, not to pander to completists who want to argue over the one (and often incomplete) reference point they have.

Ironically, the best way to ensure that the labels put stuff out untouched without the wraith of the fan base, is to ensure the fan base already knows what it should sound like, and not hoarded by a few. Releasing snippets to try and prove a point doesn’t prove a label wrong. It’s a pretentious assumption that their version of events, and how the archive should be handled, must be correct, and sounds more like a school yard argument.

If you want people to know how original mixes are sounded, let them free, rather than lecture those who enjoy what’s put out.


I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.


The stance is hypocritical. The people who supplied and handle the elite material are breaking the very code Prince expected people to uphold. But when the table is turned, and the exclusivity of their stash is threatened, they get defensive.


If the ‘legacy’ is being eroded, the elite traders are as much to blame as the estate, as they are criticising from the shadows, rather than blowing the issue out in the open.


If an elite trader tells me a track has been altered but won’t share it; verses a bootlegger, and now, the estate who will provide me with ‘a’ version, I’m going to side with the bootlegger and estate every time.


One side is giving me a rant, the other is giving me Prince music. I’ll side with the music.


 



Stand up and take a bow.
Reply #72 posted 06/08/19 1:40am

Neversin

SquirrelMeat said:

As for the ‘Frankenstein’ version argument, it’s too early to tell if this is even an issue. This issue would go away if estate simply provided technical information, plus, untouched versions may come at a later date, in more hardcore comprehensive sets.


One could only hope...

I love the information ‘elite’ collectors have provided on the org over the years, but I do think their argument out legacy destruction is misguided. I think judgement gets clouded when the exclusivity of their ‘stash’ is eroded by official releases.


That's not the problem here, and AFAIK, this isn't the problem for any collector... The problem is that they feel the need to create new mixes: for example Jill Jones' backing vocals for "Baby, You're A Trip" was recorded for her version of the song and they felt the need to add that track to his completed version... Same for "Nothing Compares 2 U" and more on this album...
Most collectors would love to see The prince Estate release the original versions that collector's have been "hoarding" so they can:

1. Profit off it to fund new projects...
2. Shut down the bootleggers...
3. Give fans an acurate presentation of a track he created solely...


Lets take ‘Manic Monday’ as an example. The new album’s purpose is to let people hear Prince singing the song he gave to the Bangles. It was never sold as ‘here’s the demo/take 1/final take’. The job of the producers is to make it as sonically pleasing as possible, not to pander to completists who want to argue over the one (and often incomplete) reference point they have.


In the case of "Manic Monday" it's just wrong, the background vocals don't even match his version of the track, plus they were recorded for the Apollonia 6 version...


Ironically, the best way to ensure that the labels put stuff out untouched without the wraith of the fan base, is to ensure the fan base already knows what it should sound like, and not hoarded by a few. Releasing snippets to try and prove a point doesn’t prove a label wrong. It’s a pretentious assumption that their version of events, and how the archive should be handled, must be correct, and sounds more like a school yard argument.


And yet it isn't... The recording logs prove that...

If you want people to know how original mixes are sounded, let them free, rather than lecture those who enjoy what’s put out.


That's the whole point, WE WANT this shit to be freed, BY THE prince ESTATE so they can profit off it to fund more projects and uphold a respectful legacy...

I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.


Tell that to Wally Safford...

The stance is hypocritical. The people who supplied and handle the elite material are breaking the very code Prince expected people to uphold. But when the table is turned, and the exclusivity of their stash is threatened, they get defensive.


This is not the problem whatsoever, you seem to have no clue...
The prince Estate is the only entity we want this stuff to release, we don't care about "exclusivity", we just want The prince Estate to release this stuff so bootleggers will be cancelled out as much as possible...

If the ‘legacy’ is being eroded, the elite traders are as much to blame as the estate, as they are criticising from the shadows, rather than blowing the issue out in the open.


Again, you have no clue...

Neversin.


O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #73 posted 06/08/19 2:11am

love2thenines2003

has Wally Safford released something free or 4 money??? >> not the 1st version of WALLY anyway ?

[Edited 6/8/19 2:12am]

Reply #74 posted 06/08/19 2:14am

Moonbeam

Neversin, can you tell us which versions on Originals you believe are legitimate versions?
Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #75 posted 06/08/19 3:56am

kremlinshadow

Can't say I'm overly impressed or given the WOW factor by this release. Probably due to being spoiled with good bootlegs over the years. Doubt it'll be on repeat, much like the piano/mic cd.

Reply #76 posted 06/08/19 4:11am

TheEnglishGent

Moonbeam said:

Neversin, can you tell us which versions on Originals you believe are legitimate versions?


I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her.

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion.

RIP sad
Reply #77 posted 06/08/19 4:34am

IanRG

rupertpupkin said:

"Sex Shooter" is a big suprise : and after having heard recently Vanity 6's version, Prince sining it falsetto then the spoken vocals is priceless and very disturbing... (lol)

it sounds like if Prince use the same backing track he would use for Vanity 6 version. That just that it speed-up a little bit, increasing the pitch to sing it in falsetto.

Too bad it has an early fade out. I'm pretty sure that it was far more "extended"...

perhaps one day through Eye records...?

"Manic Monday" : after the Eye "version" with Lisa vocals, this version is just a gem.

an existential question : the backing vocals sounds to me like Lisa and Wendy, but could some "low vocals" backing vocals being recorded by one of the Bangles singers (don't remember which one of the Bangles did song the backing vocals on Bangles's "Manic Monday") but these low-vocals backing vocals harmonies are almost a duplicate of the Bangles' singles; that's why I'm really curious to read more info about this...

"Noon Rendez Vous" wow. just wow. the heartbeat, the classical piano. the almost a cappela arrangement. When I thought that the live version of Noon Rendez Vous for Prince's birthday show was one of the best ever, this one is such a discovery after Prince's own version of "Nothing Compares 2 U".

This sounds even more like a fragile ballad and obviously a declaration of love to "that little girl over there"...

well, this is one of the best official release so far IMHO

.

Totally agree about Sex Shooter - A great way to open the album.

.

I really like Holly Rock as well

Reply #78 posted 06/08/19 4:41am

OperatingThetan

TheEnglishGent said:

 



Moonbeam said:


Neversin, can you tell us which versions on Originals you believe are legitimate versions?


I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her. 

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion. 



Agreed. I think yours is the most logical explanation.

If there is a Prince version with appropriate backing vocals, then let one of these 'elite' collectors share it with us in full (it is only one track) and rest their case. Otherwise, I'm going to continue enjoying what I consider to be a very solid release.
Reply #79 posted 06/08/19 4:46am

databank

So mant replies since I last came yesterday and many things I'd like to reply to but too little time today. Thanks to everyone who provided insights and debated in a civil manner. Originals is now "out there" on the internet and I gave it my first listen. Of course it was an interesting listening experience but for now I'll just stick to a few general comments.

.

1/ The Frankenstein situation: I will do my best to investigate, check available info about recording logs and ask a few people I know, and also read the Jill/Susannah interview above in details. I will try to come-up with a detailed report of everything I've found about each track. However Neversin already revealed enough and despite some people's defiance, I will say this: there are some people here who, though being only human and (like myself, of course) not free from making a mistake every once in a while, have provided usueful information to the community without failing year after year. I share with those people a taste for accurate and objective information and research, and I trust their judgement, not blindly, not foolishly, but because so far and as far as I know, they have never been caught making up shit or talking nonsense. Neversin is one of those people, I appreciate his insights and I trust his judgement. I will, nevertheless, try to cross sources and informations to try and come-up with the most accurate results, and explain my reasoning when I do so, as I have with NC2U, so everyone can judge for themselves. Please people before asking again "how can you possibly know...", go back and read the detailed explaination I already posted twice in this thread, and see for yourself.

.

2/ The choice of songs/versions. Tinkering aside, I'm down with that, I want everything so in the end whether they release a version or another, as long as it's genuine, I'm happy. I would have done things differently: I would have tried to release the last known Prince version/mix/edit of the track before it was overdubbed by the vocal artist or sent to an artist outside the camp. But that's OK, I'm always happy to have anything. The sequencing certainly doesn't sound anything like a "real" Prince album but if you accept it's just a compilation and not intended as an album, it's OK too, you can always make your own playlist of posthumous songs. I think I'll still prefer the final released versions, in many case I find those "works in progress" versions less dynamic than what Prince finally put out and I think his choices were wise when he finished the tracks, but it's always great to have earlier cuts.

.

3/ The sound. Again, putting aside the tinkering and with M. Howe acknowledging, at least, that they had to remix the multitracks based on the cassette mixdowns, I have a few things in mind that bother me a little but there I'd really like to hear what Kares and other people with engineering experience have to say. I think maybe this is more a matter of mastering than mixing, but I find many tracks to sound different from the released versions. I find the overall sound to have more bass and depth, in lack of better words, than the old Prince releases. Those sounded a little flatter and more high pitched, which IMHO made the songs sound more dynamic and agressive (Sex Shooter would be a perfect example: the Originals version sounds much less agressive to me despite being the same). It's particularly obvious to me with Baby, You're A Trip, and even more when it comes to the drums: compare it to the JJ version and it sounds totally different. But it could also be the fact that I have all those songs from the CDs, which are said too have been poorly transfered and sound bad by comparison to the original LP's. So I wouldn't go as far as to say this is all wrong, + I don't have the best stereo, and I'm no audiophile, so feel free to dismiss this whole paragraph, but my impression is that those new mixes/masters do not attempt much to respect Prince's original, sometimes a bit lo-fi, vision. This is not so much a surprise considering how the vocals and strings are mixed differently on NC2U by comparison to the original, unreleased Family version.

.

4/ Regarding Wally Safford, for those who don't know and IIRC, he's currently accused by the Estate of being behind the tracks that ended-up on the latest Eye Records, and he's facing heavy legal action. Not cool at all and shows that no, it's not yet entirely safe to 'leak' stuff.

.

OK, gotta go now. I'll be back later smile

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #80 posted 06/08/19 4:52am

Neversin

TheEnglishGent said:

Moonbeam said:

Neversin, can you tell us which versions on Originals you believe are legitimate versions?


I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her.

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion.


Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #81 posted 06/08/19 5:25am

Neversin

OperatingThetan said:

If there is a Prince version with appropriate backing vocals, then let one of these 'elite' collectors share it with us in full (it is only one track) and rest their case. Otherwise, I'm going to continue enjoying what I consider to be a very solid release.


I reckon this is a joke post or some ironic response?
You seriously want random fans to do this for you for free when you should be paying and hounding The prince Estate for it?!
You folks are really something else...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #82 posted 06/08/19 5:30am

love2thenines2003

Neversin said:

TheEnglishGent said:


I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her.

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion.


Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.

I have a question 4 MR Neversin who have provided usueful information to the Fanbase with passion & reason after all these past years .....MR M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault (cf Peggy MC Creary last interview) ===> the Initial more complex & produced version of WDCry......did u hear this version...and if u did ... can u share more info about it ?

thanx ....what will be or not ur reply

smile

[Edited 6/8/19 5:30am]

[Edited 6/8/19 5:31am]

Reply #83 posted 06/08/19 5:38am

Moonbeam

Neversin said:

 



TheEnglishGent said:


 



Moonbeam said:


Neversin, can you tell us which versions on Originals you believe are legitimate versions?


I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her. 

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion. 




Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.



Are there any songs on Originals that you believe are not tampered with.
Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #84 posted 06/08/19 5:42am

Neversin

love2thenines2003 said:

Neversin said:


Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.

I have a question 4 MR Neversin who have provided usueful information to the Fanbase with passion & reason after all these past years .....MR M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault (cf Peggy MC Creary last interview) ===> the Initial more complex & produced version of WDCry......did u hear this version...and if u did ... can u share more info about it ?

thanx ....what will be or not ur reply

smile

[Edited 6/8/19 5:30am]

[Edited 6/8/19 5:31am]


Already have years ago, look it up... Can't find it anymore? Then too bad, ask this site admin to implement a proper search engine and database...

So, again (I posted this last year when you asked about this and this is all you get...)

1. Full on version #1 with bass...
2. Stripped down version #2 with a different bass line...
3. Instrumental "theme" version for scenes in "Purple Rain"...

Details in posts from 15 years ago or so...
But I was called a liar and whatnot by some cunts in here (until I was proven right a decade later...) so this is all you get nowadays...

I don't needs more of these fucking insecure smegma munchers coming out the woodwork again to hijack topics and insult me, so stop asking...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #85 posted 06/08/19 5:58am

Dangelus

I really do hope we get some detailed information in the liner notes (but I won't hold my breath).

As I said before I am enjoying "Originals" and it's a step in the right direction. It's great to hear Prince's vocals on these tracks.

I am a little concerned to hear about the issues with certain tracks though. It seems to be that the consensus is heading towards the Estate having remixed many tracks on this release and made some "creative" choices.

The reason given in interviews seems to be around trying to recreate the sound of the mixdown cassettes (which apparently sounded poor or perhaps were damaged) from the multi-tracks. Obvisously there would be an amount of guesswork involved here unless details notes were left on how the tracks were mixed, which is doubtful.

If indeed it is true that new mixdowns have been made from the multi-tracks I can't understand why they would choose to omit Prince's original backing vocals and substitute them with Jill, Brenda or whoever else did them for later mixes. The only reason to do so would be if the originals were lost or in very poor condition. I hope it hasn't been done because somebody thought "this will sound better".

I guess we're looking for some transparency from the Estate.

Reply #86 posted 06/08/19 6:08am

love2thenines2003

Neversin said:

love2thenines2003 said:

I have a question 4 MR Neversin who have provided usueful information to the Fanbase with passion & reason after all these past years .....MR M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault (cf Peggy MC Creary last interview) ===> the Initial more complex & produced version of WDCry......did u hear this version...and if u did ... can u share more info about it ?

thanx ....what will be or not ur reply

smile

[Edited 6/8/19 5:30am]

[Edited 6/8/19 5:31am]


Already have years ago, look it up... Can't find it anymore? Then too bad, ask this site admin to implement a proper search engine and database...

So, again (I posted this last year when you asked about this and this is all you get...)

1. Full on version #1 with bass...
2. Stripped down version #2 with a different bass line...
3. Instrumental "theme" version for scenes in "Purple Rain"...

Details in posts from 15 years ago or so...
But I was called a liar and whatnot by some cunts in here (until I was proven right a decade later...) so this is all you get nowadays...

I don't needs more of these fucking insecure smegma munchers coming out the woodwork again to hijack topics and insult me, so stop asking...

Neversin.

Thanx 4 ur replies !

PS>I beg ur pardon but from my part ....in my name (don't know the others ??) ....during all these past years .....i never ever insult u or disrespected u......anyway thanx 1 more !

PS> Help to the old Prince.org members.....if u can find these satanics details about WDC shared by Neversin 15 years ago or so !!

HUGE Thanx u !

[Edited 6/8/19 6:12am]

Reply #87 posted 06/08/19 6:11am

dustoff

Neversin said:

You lot are just not worth it and deserve the garbage you get and praise....


Neversin said:

Just for you (and maybe other morons): when movies break box office records ...

Neversin said:

Typing the words "Netflix", "Prince" and "Documentary" into, for example, Google is an even too difficult a task for the idiots in here...


Neversin said:

I never heard someone complain about those and if they did they're full of shit...


Neversin said:

Only dumb and full of shit stalkery types, who don't know shit about sound, praise those garbage "bass-heavy because kids like that" headphones...

Neversin said:

I don't needs more of these fucking insecure smegma munchers coming out the woodwork again to hijack topics and insult me, so stop asking...


The cognative dissonance here is amazing. You obviously know a lot about Prince bootlegs but seriously, give the constant invectives a rest. Why others get flame-snipped at the drop of a hat, but you get a pass for this constant malevolence is beyond me.

Reply #88 posted 06/08/19 6:26am

lastdecember

Upon listening to this or any things we are going to get like this in the future the important thing to set aside is the FACT that regardless of it, it isn’t new Prince albums, they may be things not released but dismiss the fact of him being behind these things, someone is doing that, someone is sequencing and mixing and doing the artwork so dismiss those things or else you will be always underwhelmed.
That aside it’s nice to get new things regardless, and also remember these are his guide vocals in many cases to songs he may have been thinking of giving away, if he planned on putting them on his own album he would have had final demo versions, remember again he is in early stages of doing these things. So I won’t get into likes and dislikes because it’s not fair to even rate these against final versions or other artists final complete mastered productions.

"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
Reply #89 posted 06/08/19 6:27am

olb99

love2thenines2003 said:

PS> Help to the old Prince.org members.....if u can find these satanics details about WDC shared by Neversin 15 years ago or so !!

HUGE Thanx u !

[Edited 6/8/19 6:12am]

.

There's this thread from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/18448

[Edited 6/8/19 6:27am]

Reply #90 posted 06/08/19 6:33am

Neversin

Moonbeam said:

Neversin said:


Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.

Are there any songs on Originals that you believe are not tampered with.


Yes... If you asked me before these assholes came and annoyed me for providing info I would have posted details in here...
Check you orgnotes in a couple of minutes and don't repost...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #91 posted 06/08/19 6:36am

love2thenines2003

olb99 said:

love2thenines2003 said:

PS> Help to the old Prince.org members.....if u can find these satanics details about WDC shared by Neversin 15 years ago or so !!

HUGE Thanx u !

[Edited 6/8/19 6:12am]

.

There's this thread from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/18448

[Edited 6/8/19 6:27am]

And what about this more complex & more produced initial version with other instruments that M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault and Peggy MCcreary has talked about....this is not only the version with bass only ???

PS> Thanx a LOT 2 old99 (is there any other posts about it in the Archives ?)

Reply #92 posted 06/08/19 6:38am

olb99

So, I've just read an interview of Michael Howe (in French):

.

http://www.funku.fr/2019/...chael-howe

.

He's saying what he's also been saying in other interviews:

.

"La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes. D’autres figuraient sur des cassettes, mais certaines d’entre elles n’étaient pas d’assez bonne qualité d’un point de vue sonore. Nous avons donc réalisé un nouveau mix sur des bandes multipistes en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette. Au final, l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal."

.

So they had rough mixes (stereo) on 1/2-inch tapes and others on audio cassette tapes. Some of the recordings were not good enough (I guess the ones on cassettes), so they took the multitrack tapes and made new stereo mixes, using the existing stereo mixdowns as references ("en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette"). What we hear on "Originals" is supposed to be what they heard on the cassettes ("l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal.").

.

If we take his word for it, that would mean they found a cassette with Prince's version of "Baby You're a Trip" with Jill Jones doing the background vocals, right? But it doesn't make much sense. Does it?

.

It looks like Michael Howe is lying and/or imprecise. Is he unable to tell what they did exactly because of the Estate? Very frustrating.

[Edited 6/8/19 7:26am]

Reply #93 posted 06/08/19 6:44am

Neversin

olb99 said:

love2thenines2003 said:

PS> Help to the old Prince.org members.....if u can find these satanics details about WDC shared by Neversin 15 years ago or so !!

HUGE Thanx u !

[Edited 6/8/19 6:12am]

.

There's this thread from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/18448

[Edited 6/8/19 6:27am]


Find the follow up topic on that one with warts and all trolls spamming the fuck out of it and throwing insults at yours truly (and people are surprised why I treat humans the way I do; act like a shithead then I'll treat you like a shithead...)
I wouldn't be surprised if that topic was locked and stashed away forever... If so then too bad...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #94 posted 06/08/19 6:45am

Neversin

olb99 said:

So, I've just read an interview of Michael Howe (in French):

.

http://www.funku.fr/2019/...chael-howe

.

He's saying what he's also been saying in other interviews:

.

"La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes. D’autres figuraient sur des cassettes, mais certaines d’entre elles n’étaient pas d’assez bonne qualité d’un point de vue sonore. Nous avons donc réalisé un nouveau mix sur des bandes multipistes en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette. Au final, l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal."

.

So they had rough mixes (stereo) on 1/2-inch tapes and others on audio cassette tapes. Some of the recordings were not good enough (I guess the ones on cassettes), so they took the multitrack tapes and made new stereo mixes, using the existing stereo downmixes as references ("en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette"). What we hear on "Originals" is supposed to be what they heard on the cassettes ("l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal.").

.

If we take his word for it, that would mean they found a cassette with Prince's version of "Baby You're a Trip" with Jill Jones doing the background vocals, right? But it doesn't make much sense. Does it?

.

It looks like Michael Howe is lying and/or imprecise. Is he unable to tell what they did exactly because of the Estate? Very frustrating.


"Work-in-progress" version...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #95 posted 06/08/19 6:47am

Neversin

love2thenines2003 said:

olb99 said:

.

There's this thread from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/18448

[Edited 6/8/19 6:27am]

And what about this more complex & more produced initial version with other instruments that M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault and Peggy MCcreary has talked about....this is not only the version with bass only ???

PS> Thanx a LOT 2 old99 (is there any other posts about it in the Archives ?)


That's "1. Full on version #1 with bass..." and it's horrid, IMO...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #96 posted 06/08/19 6:54am

love2thenines2003

Neversin said:

love2thenines2003 said:

And what about this more complex & more produced initial version with other instruments that M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault and Peggy MCcreary has talked about....this is not only the version with bass only ???

PS> Thanx a LOT 2 old99 (is there any other posts about it in the Archives ?)


That's "1. Full on version #1 with bass..." and it's horrid, IMO...

Neversin.

I thank u....one more....and as databank .....i think that the boys&girls who insulted back in the days are assholes themselves..that's it......ur knowledge of Prince's Music is a must in a good way 4 a lot of us ...but there will be always somewhere assholes ...Right ?....does this mean we are all assholes here ?...don't think so !

have a nice day

[Edited 6/8/19 6:55am]

[Edited 6/8/19 6:55am]

[Edited 6/8/19 7:03am]

[Edited 6/8/19 7:03am]

Reply #97 posted 06/08/19 7:11am

TrevorAyer

i am enjoying everything on this release except maybe 'you're my love" .. its a good song and most of his delivery is ok but there are a few clunker notes singing and it sounds more like one of his meandering idea sessions than a finished fleshed out demo .. in otherwords .. its a good song but doesn't really fit with this collection .. 'love thy will be done' does not fit either because it comes from such a different era, but it's a great song that I have wanted in great quality for a long time .. maybe it is meant as a teaser for his later years

my feaR is that some of this may be frankensteined via mixing a cassette with prince vocal on it with the backing tracks from the multitrax .. like some say they did with NC2u

according to the french article they tried to recreate the cassette mix from the multitrax .. they don't mention if prince vocal was still on the multitrax or if they had to mix the cassette version in to get prince vocals on there .. there is some muddiness that would suggest this is possible on some tracks

it sounds like neversin has copies of the actual cassette mixes .. not the recreations from the multi trax

it sounds like there may have been some additional embelishments from the multitrax that were not on the cassette mixdowns .. that would explain additional backing vocalists and guitar noodles

i don't mind any mix that comes only from the multitrax .. i would rather the estate did not mix the cassette mix with the multitrax .. i would rather have the cassette mix as is if no other source exists with prince on vocals

i find that a somewhat cronological order works better for me to enjoy these songs .. my guess is they did not want to lead with "you're my love" or "wouldn't u love 2 love me" due to compromised sound quality and peformance .. so we got the mishmash track order

try this .. i call it THE ORIGINAL ORIGINALs MIX

wouldn't u love 2 love me

baby ur a trip

sex shooter

make up

100mph

gigiloos get lonely

jungle love

noon rendezvous

the glamourous life

dear michealangelo

holly rock

manic monday

nothing compares 2u

love thy will be done

i think holly rock sounds like the early version of housequake .. not that the songs are the same just the style he was going for




[Edited 6/8/19 7:17am]

Reply #98 posted 06/08/19 7:20am

olb99

Neversin said:

olb99 said:

So, I've just read an interview of Michael Howe (in French):

.

http://www.funku.fr/2019/...chael-howe

.

He's saying what he's also been saying in other interviews:

.

"La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes. D’autres figuraient sur des cassettes, mais certaines d’entre elles n’étaient pas d’assez bonne qualité d’un point de vue sonore. Nous avons donc réalisé un nouveau mix sur des bandes multipistes en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette. Au final, l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal."

.

So they had rough mixes (stereo) on 1/2-inch tapes and others on audio cassette tapes. Some of the recordings were not good enough (I guess the ones on cassettes), so they took the multitrack tapes and made new stereo mixes, using the existing stereo mixdowns as references ("en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette"). What we hear on "Originals" is supposed to be what they heard on the cassettes ("l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal.").

.

If we take his word for it, that would mean they found a cassette with Prince's version of "Baby You're a Trip" with Jill Jones doing the background vocals, right? But it doesn't make much sense. Does it?

.

It looks like Michael Howe is lying and/or imprecise. Is he unable to tell what they did exactly because of the Estate? Very frustrating.


"Work-in-progress" version...

Neversin.

.

Ok, so a "work-in-progress" mixdown with Prince on vocals and Jill Jones on background vocals might have been made during the Jill Jones sessions?

.

But it's less likely for other songs on the album, right (e.g. "Manic Monday")?

[Edited 6/8/19 7:26am]

Reply #99 posted 06/08/19 7:20am

Dangelus

TrevorAyer said:

i am enjoying everything on this release except maybe 'you're my love" .. its a good song and most of his delivery is ok but there are a few clunker notes singing and it sounds more like one of his meandering idea sessions than a finished fleshed out demo .. in otherwords .. its a good song but doesn't really fit with this collection .. 'love thy will be done' does not fit either because it comes from such a different era, but it's a great song that I have wanted in great quality for a long time .. maybe it is meant as a teaser for his later years

my feaR is that some of this may be frankensteined via mixing a cassette with prince vocal on it with the backing tracks from the multitrax .. like some say they did with NC2u

according to the french article they tried to recreate the cassette mix from the multitrax .. they don't mention if prince vocal was still on the multitrax or if they had to mix the cassette version in to get prince vocals on there .. there is some muddiness that would suggest this is possible on some tracks

it sounds like neversin has copies of the actual cassette mixes .. not the recreations from the multi trax

it sounds like there may have been some additional embelishments from the multitrax that were not on the cassette mixdowns .. that would explain additional backing vocalists and guitar noodles

i don't mind any mix that comes only from the multitrax .. i would rather the estate did not mix the cassette mix with the multitrax .. i would rather have the cassette mix as is if no other source exists with prince on vocals

i find that a somewhat cronological order works better for me to enjoy these songs .. my guess is they did not want to lead with "you're my love" or "wouldn't u love 2 love me" due to compromised sound quality and peformance .. so we got the mishmash track order

try this .. i call it THE ORIGINAL ORIGINAL MIX

wouldn't u love 2 love me

baby ur a trip

sex shooter

make up

100mph

gigiloos get lonely

jungle love

noon rendezvous

the glamourous life

dear michealangelo

holly rock

manic monday

nothing compares 2u

love thy will be done

i think holly rock sounds like the early version of housequake .. not that the songs are the same just the style he was going for




Again, if nothing else was available (no Prince vocals on the multitracks) then fair enough but be transparent about it.

Heck, I hybridised all the Family tracks with Prince vocals (including NC2U which sounds scarily like the Estate's released version lol) for my personal use because I wanted to hear it but I wouldn't expect a Prince "Family" album release to do this if his demos were available to use.

From the sound of most of the Prince vocals, if they were on cassette only then the quality surely was good enough to give us the original Prince mixdown. My fear is they've messed with it to make it "sound better" or sound more like the released tracks. If so, unessessary meddling.

Reply #100 posted 06/08/19 7:25am

OnlyNDaUsa

olb99 said:

So, I've just read an interview of Michael Howe (in French):

.

http://www.funku.fr/2019/...chael-howe

.

He's saying what he's also been saying in other interviews:

.

"La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes. D’autres figuraient sur des cassettes, mais certaines d’entre elles n’étaient pas d’assez bonne qualité d’un point de vue sonore. Nous avons donc réalisé un nouveau mix sur des bandes multipistes en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette. Au final, l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal."

.

So they had rough mixes (stereo) on 1/2-inch tapes and others on audio cassette tapes. Some of the recordings were not good enough (I guess the ones on cassettes), so they took the multitrack tapes and made new stereo mixes, using the existing stereo downmixes as references ("en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette"). What we hear on "Originals" is supposed to be what they heard on the cassettes ("l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal.").

.

If we take his word for it, that would mean they found a cassette with Prince's version of "Baby You're a Trip" with Jill Jones doing the background vocals, right? But it doesn't make much sense. Does it?

.

It looks like Michael Howe is lying and/or imprecise. Is he unable to tell what they did exactly because of the Estate? Very frustrating.

remember prince has said *recent Arsenio Hall show* that many of the songs are not finished and even many of the bootlegs are not compete. So the fact that someone may have to finish some of them is fine. If that means they have to take the multi-track masters to mix them, fine. I am 100% for this... it is the best source. And it means that thoes are also preserved.


(in the Tudal book it mentions he would often make a cassesset tape of a an early mix to listen to in the car... in other places it has been said he would ofent leave tapes laying aroung in his cars and people would just take them...)


Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #101 posted 06/08/19 8:04am

TheEnglishGent

Neversin said:

TheEnglishGent said:


I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her.

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion.


Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.


Thanks for that. It does raise another question for me. Does that version then even exist any more in the vault? We know Prince sometimes recorded over things. Did he record over his backing vocals with the female vocals? It might be that the original version only exists in the hands of a few lucky collectors. In which case, hounding the estate won't help at all.

RIP sad
Reply #102 posted 06/08/19 8:09am

udo

What's the deal with whatever Prince says during the intro of The Glamorous Life?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #103 posted 06/08/19 8:12am

udo

If this `Howe` person cannot discuss 'artistic' choices or any `policy` behind these, then whatever were they doing?

.

(yes, choosing a track with non-Prince backing vocals over Prince's backing voxals for a stereo downmix is such a choice)

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #104 posted 06/08/19 8:20am

Neversin

TheEnglishGent said:

Neversin said:


Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.


Thanks for that. It does raise another question for me. Does that version then even exist any more in the vault? We know Prince sometimes recorded over things. Did he record over his backing vocals with the female vocals? It might be that the original version only exists in the hands of a few lucky collectors. In which case, hounding the estate won't help at all.


The multi-track of the song with his background vocals, I honestly don't know if he recorded over it but at least one mixdown tape exists in his vault with his finalized solo version...
And if not anymore then yet another reason for The prince Estate to reach out to the fans that researched his career instead of making shit up as they go along, fucking amateurs...

Neversin.

[Edited 6/8/19 8:21am]

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #105 posted 06/08/19 8:20am

OnlyNDaUsa

udo said:

What's the deal with whatever Prince says during the intro of The Glamorous Life?

don't you get me? don't forget me? don't you (something) me?

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #106 posted 06/08/19 8:32am

udo

OnlyNDaUsa said:

udo said:

What's the deal with whatever Prince says during the intro of The Glamorous Life?

don't you get me? don't forget me? don't you (something) me?

.

Yes, but what is the context here?

Why did he say it?

Why was it left there for this release?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #107 posted 06/08/19 9:24am

OnlyNDaUsa

udo said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

don't you get me? don't forget me? don't you (something) me?

.

Yes, but what is the context here?

Why did he say it?

Why was it left there for this release?

I do not know... it is a bit like him saying something about being nervous or worried at the beginning of Father's Song... but he also did that on one of the Cream? mixes? he said "Is everything oay back there?"

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #108 posted 06/08/19 10:29am

Revolution81

Theres something said at the beginning of NC2U as well, thats not on any of the bootleg versions or the released family version. In the left channel you can hear something like "right on" or "turn it on"

My fathers got a shotgun...I hope he doesn't use it
Reply #109 posted 06/08/19 10:38am

OnlyNDaUsa

Revolution81 said:

Theres something said at the beginning of NC2U as well, thats not on any of the bootleg versions or the released family version. In the left channel you can hear something like "right on" or "turn it on"

can you give a time? I may need to pull out a better pair of head phones!?

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #110 posted 06/08/19 10:44am

Revolution81

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Revolution81 said:

Theres something said at the beginning of NC2U as well, thats not on any of the bootleg versions or the released family version. In the left channel you can hear something like "right on" or "turn it on"

can you give a time? I may need to pull out a better pair of head phones!?

14 seconds in, and its only in the left channel

My fathers got a shotgun...I hope he doesn't use it
Reply #111 posted 06/08/19 10:47am

scififilmnerd

Loving Neversin's comments on Originals, and I agree with him. "Originals" is a misnomer if the tracks are tampered with. And I would much rather hear an "unfinished" demo than a "remix" by some ghost producer. The Estate should be honest about what was done to these tracks, so I'm looking forward to the physical CD to see if there will be any information on the recording of the tracks in the CD cover. smile

Anyway, some of the songs sound genuine, like Noon Rendezvous, Make-Up, Gigolos Get Lonely Too and Love... Thy Will Be Done. Loving those. biggrin

And Duane Tudahl could do another updated edition of his Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions after this release. lol

What I'm really looking forward to and is excited about is 1999 Deluxe. I loved the bonus disc of outtakes on Purple Rain Deluxe. Those tracks had not been tampered with. So I expect the same high standard for 1999 Deluxe. smile

As for Originals... It's all very nice, but nothing truly exciting that makes my heart swell with joy like Purple Rain Deluxe did. Probably because we've heard all of the songs before... And with most of these songs being tampered with or edited, it's like... meh! shrug

[Edited 6/8/19 21:54pm]

rainbow woot! FREE THE 29 MAY 1993 COME CONFIGURATION! woot! rainbow
rainbow woot! FREE THE 1994 CHAOS AND DISORDER CONFIGURATION woot! rainbow
Reply #112 posted 06/08/19 10:48am

OnlyNDaUsa

Revolution81 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

can you give a time? I may need to pull out a better pair of head phones!?

14 seconds in, and its only in the left channel

I hear something. I can not make out if it is a word or just a mouth noice or a breath or moving the mic a little...

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #113 posted 06/08/19 11:07am

Revolution81

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Revolution81 said:

14 seconds in, and its only in the left channel

I hear something. I can not make out if it is a word or just a mouth noice or a breath or moving the mic a little...

Its definitely somebody saying something. I just find it slightly weird its not on either of the leaked bootlegs or the family version, so where did it come from? Maybe its whoever worked on it for the release last year, telling an engineer to quickly switch on the family multi's "turn it on!" lol

My fathers got a shotgun...I hope he doesn't use it
Reply #114 posted 06/08/19 11:29am

AvocadosMax

OnlyNDaUsa said:

 



udo said:


What's the deal with whatever Prince says during the intro of The Glamorous Life?



 


 


don't you get me? don't forget me?  don't you (something) me? 


I heard “don’t trip”
Lol
Reply #115 posted 06/08/19 11:43am

cb70

scififilmnerd said:

Anyway, some of the songs sound genuine, like Noon Rendezvous, Make-Up and Love... Thy Will Be Done. Loving those. biggrin

I do miss the guitar part in "Love... Thy Will Be Done" that's in one of the boots with his vocal take. Makes you wonder how many different mixes they have of each song.

The "100 MPH" version here sounds over produced with everything but the kitchen sink thrown here. I was hoping for the stripped back boot version with his little chuckle at the beginning.

Reply #116 posted 06/08/19 12:48pm

TrivialPursuit

I learned after reading up on stuff that the guitar solo in "Dear Michaelangelo" was reused in "The Rapture" section of The Scandalous Sex Suite.

Here's one fan's review of the album.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
Reply #117 posted 06/08/19 12:59pm

Kares

olb99 said:

So, I've just read an interview of Michael Howe (in French):

.

http://www.funku.fr/2019/...chael-howe

.

He's saying what he's also been saying in other interviews:

.

"La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes. D’autres figuraient sur des cassettes, mais certaines d’entre elles n’étaient pas d’assez bonne qualité d’un point de vue sonore. Nous avons donc réalisé un nouveau mix sur des bandes multipistes en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette. Au final, l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal."

.

So they had rough mixes (stereo) on 1/2-inch tapes and others on audio cassette tapes. Some of the recordings were not good enough (I guess the ones on cassettes), so they took the multitrack tapes and made new stereo mixes, using the existing stereo mixdowns as references ("en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette"). What we hear on "Originals" is supposed to be what they heard on the cassettes ("l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal.").

.

If we take his word for it, that would mean they found a cassette with Prince's version of "Baby You're a Trip" with Jill Jones doing the background vocals, right? But it doesn't make much sense. Does it?

.

It looks like Michael Howe is lying and/or imprecise. Is he unable to tell what they did exactly because of the Estate? Very frustrating.

[Edited 6/8/19 7:26am]

.

Mixdown tapes are 1/4", not 1/2".
.
And it might have been their intention to recreate mixes that match the mixes they found, but unfortunately several songs on 'Originals' were mixed way too dry (lacking the effects) compared to their released version. 'Make-Up', for example, has a lot more effects on the Vanity 6 album and now we got something that is great, but definitely NOT a faithful reproduction of how Prince intended the song. It is possible that they used a raw mixdown copy as a reference that lacked the effects, but I believe it's safe to assume that Prince's intention for the sound is what we hear on the Vanity 6 release so I would've made the new mix to match that instead.
.

I'd like to emphasise thought that I am very happy to have this new release. I LOVE it. Yet, I can't help noticing a LOT of issues with it and I do agree with what Neversin is saying too (just not with his language, sorry.).
.
By the way, I'm also happy that at least they went back to the multitrack to remix it instead of just putting out a cassette copy again. But I'd love to know more about where and how exactly this mix was done. And who was called in to do it. Remixing such old recordings is quite a challange if your intention is to faithfully recreate the mix done back then as you'd not only need the same outboard equipment Prince had access to in the early 80s, but (preferably) the original engineer too, who knows what Prince's preferred settings were. And I'm afraid these new mixes are far from being faithful reproducions, not only because they use parts that don't belong together (like Jill's vocals on BYAT), but also because some songs are way too dry, some (Manic Monday especially) have a far too contemporary sound.
.

[Edited 6/8/19 13:59pm]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #118 posted 06/08/19 1:36pm

Kares

databank said:

So mant replies since I last came yesterday and many things I'd like to reply to but too little time today. Thanks to everyone who provided insights and debated in a civil manner. Originals is now "out there" on the internet and I gave it my first listen. Of course it was an interesting listening experience but for now I'll just stick to a few general comments.

.

1/ The Frankenstein situation: I will do my best to investigate, check available info about recording logs and ask a few people I know, and also read the Jill/Susannah interview above in details. I will try to come-up with a detailed report of everything I've found about each track. However Neversin already revealed enough and despite some people's defiance, I will say this: there are some people here who, though being only human and (like myself, of course) not free from making a mistake every once in a while, have provided usueful information to the community without failing year after year. I share with those people a taste for accurate and objective information and research, and I trust their judgement, not blindly, not foolishly, but because so far and as far as I know, they have never been caught making up shit or talking nonsense. Neversin is one of those people, I appreciate his insights and I trust his judgement. I will, nevertheless, try to cross sources and informations to try and come-up with the most accurate results, and explain my reasoning when I do so, as I have with NC2U, so everyone can judge for themselves. Please people before asking again "how can you possibly know...", go back and read the detailed explaination I already posted twice in this thread, and see for yourself.

.

2/ The choice of songs/versions. Tinkering aside, I'm down with that, I want everything so in the end whether they release a version or another, as long as it's genuine, I'm happy. I would have done things differently: I would have tried to release the last known Prince version/mix/edit of the track before it was overdubbed by the vocal artist or sent to an artist outside the camp. But that's OK, I'm always happy to have anything. The sequencing certainly doesn't sound anything like a "real" Prince album but if you accept it's just a compilation and not intended as an album, it's OK too, you can always make your own playlist of posthumous songs. I think I'll still prefer the final released versions, in many case I find those "works in progress" versions less dynamic than what Prince finally put out and I think his choices were wise when he finished the tracks, but it's always great to have earlier cuts.

.

3/ The sound. Again, putting aside the tinkering and with M. Howe acknowledging, at least, that they had to remix the multitracks based on the cassette mixdowns, I have a few things in mind that bother me a little but there I'd really like to hear what Kares and other people with engineering experience have to say. I think maybe this is more a matter of mastering than mixing, but I find many tracks to sound different from the released versions. I find the overall sound to have more bass and depth, in lack of better words, than the old Prince releases. Those sounded a little flatter and more high pitched, which IMHO made the songs sound more dynamic and agressive (Sex Shooter would be a perfect example: the Originals version sounds much less agressive to me despite being the same). It's particularly obvious to me with Baby, You're A Trip, and even more when it comes to the drums: compare it to the JJ version and it sounds totally different. But it could also be the fact that I have all those songs from the CDs, which are said too have been poorly transfered and sound bad by comparison to the original LP's. So I wouldn't go as far as to say this is all wrong, + I don't have the best stereo, and I'm no audiophile, so feel free to dismiss this whole paragraph, but my impression is that those new mixes/masters do not attempt much to respect Prince's original, sometimes a bit lo-fi, vision. This is not so much a surprise considering how the vocals and strings are mixed differently on NC2U by comparison to the original, unreleased Family version.

.

.

You're right in saying that many of the new mixes sound quite different to the previously released versions. But it's mainly the result of mixing, not mastering. I'm not sure what work-in-progress or raw mixdown tapes they used as references, but the results are surely different and in some cases (especially Manic Monday) sound even a bit disrespectful of the original. (I love MM on the new release, I just don't think it is ethical to change the sound that much.)
.
The main issue with the new mixes is that the effects used during the mixing process back when they were mixing the Vanity 6, Sheila E, Apollonia 6 etc tracks are missing and/or are different on these new versions. Some engineers/artists prefer "printing" the effects to tape, in those cases the multitracks end up already having most of the effects so they are very easy to mix – others, like Prince, liked to retain the flexibility for future mixes by only recording dry signals and adding effects only during the mixing process. Both approaches have pros and cons of course. But on some songs of 'Originals' it seems like we ended up with mostly just the dry signal that was found on the multitrack, hence the different sound when compared with the previous releases.

.

Another issue is (again...) the tape speeds. 'Sex Shooter' is slightly below, 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me' is slightly above normal pitch, but some others aren't 100% spot on either.

.

[Edited 6/9/19 3:19am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #119 posted 06/08/19 2:08pm

jaawwnn

Neversin said:

 



OperatingThetan said:


If there is a Prince version with appropriate backing vocals, then let one of these 'elite' collectors share it with us in full (it is only one track) and rest their case. Otherwise, I'm going to continue enjoying what I consider to be a very solid release.


I reckon this is a joke post or some ironic response?
You seriously want random fans to do this for you for free when you should be paying and hounding The prince Estate for it?!
You folks are really something else...

Neversin.


Well we went to the Prince estate and they gave us Originals so yes please, for now we will accept the actual original versions of the tracks off Originals. Always enjoy your posts and thanks in advance.
Reply #120 posted 06/08/19 2:09pm

Doozer

OnlyNDaUsa said:

 



udo said:


 



OnlyNDaUsa said:


 


 


 


don't you get me? don't forget me?  don't you (something) me? 



.


Yes, but what is the context here?


Why did he say it?


Why was it left there for this release?



 


 


I do not know... it is a bit like him saying something about being nervous or worried at the beginning of Father's Song... but he also did that on one of the Cream? mixes? he said "Is everything oay back there?"   



That was on the maxi single for New Power Generation.
Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
Reply #121 posted 06/08/19 2:09pm

Doozer

dupe post - deleted
[Edited 6/8/19 14:10pm]
Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
Reply #122 posted 06/08/19 2:12pm

Loefie

EmmaMcG said:

mnfriend said:

I told myself
Stop being an old lady and sign up for Tidal.
And now I can’t get in
and have to wait.


Just download it illegally. That's what I did.


Or wait a month and buy a physical copy. That’s what I’m doing. wink
Produced, Arranged, Composed & Performed by PRINCE


"Rotterdam, we come to jam!"
Reply #123 posted 06/08/19 2:23pm

OnlyNDaUsa

Doozer said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I do not know... it is a bit like him saying something about being nervous or worried at the beginning of Father's Song... but he also did that on one of the Cream? mixes? he said "Is everything oay back there?"

That was on the maxi single for New Power Generation.

oh yeah at very end of Lubricated Lady! (right?)

cream had the prank phone calls...

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #124 posted 06/08/19 2:24pm

OnlyNDaUsa

Loefie said:

EmmaMcG said:
Just download it illegally. That's what I did.
Or wait a month and buy a physical copy. That’s what I’m doing. wink

why not do both?

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #125 posted 06/08/19 2:36pm

TheSilentMikey

Well that took a good year but PrinceVault finally acknowledged that the version of “NC2U” released in 2018 is NOT the true mix of the original “Prince” version and this version still remains officially unreleased.
[Edited 6/8/19 14:37pm]
"Don't need no Reefer. Don't need Cocaine. Purple Music does the same to my brain."
Reply #126 posted 06/08/19 2:58pm

Rev

TheSilentMikey said:

Well that took a good year but PrinceVault finally acknowledged that the version of “NC2U” released in 2018 is NOT the true mix of the original “Prince” version and this version still remains officially unreleased. [Edited 6/8/19 14:37pm]

Wow. I missed this. Who did the post production?

Reply #127 posted 06/08/19 2:58pm

EmmaMcG

Loefie said:

EmmaMcG said:



Just download it illegally. That's what I did.


Or wait a month and buy a physical copy. That’s what I’m doing. wink


I am also going to do that. I had to hear it first though to make sure it was worth buying.
Reply #128 posted 06/08/19 3:26pm

Kares

EmmaMcG said:

Loefie said:
Or wait a month and buy a physical copy. That’s what I’m doing. wink
I am also going to do that. I had to hear it first though to make sure it was worth buying.

.

It is definitely worth buying.
I didn't say this about Purple Rain Deluxe, as I found the fact that they used cassette copies for sourcing such masterpieces as 'Love And Sex' and 'Computer Blue' insulting. But 'Originals' (despite its issues) is a must have. Some of Prince's performances are quite breathtaking and most of the songs sound great too.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #129 posted 06/08/19 4:04pm

sro100

Only Prince could get me to subscibe to Tidal...and it's worth it!

Reply #130 posted 06/08/19 4:51pm

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #131 posted 06/08/19 5:15pm

Doozer

FUNKNROLL said:



Solid release. They shoulda named the album "Portraits in Pronoun Courage" biggrin



lol lol

Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
Reply #132 posted 06/08/19 8:21pm

popgodazipa

Se7en said:

 



ian said:


Really loving this collection so far. Such a shame to have it as Tidal exclusive on June 7th, I'd have loved to go out and buy a physical copy of it today of all days. Anyway, let's hope they do a second volume.




The Estate has written about this quite a few times, about this album wrapping up their legal obligation to TIDAL. It will be interesting to see if they continue to work with TIDAL when they don't legally have to . . .


 


Hope not. Why folks will not give Jay and Tidal their proper due for releasing the best set post...you know. Wait this is the org, that would be too easy. Say what you want about Jay the guy knows music and did a phenomenal job curating. I mean Love would not have been on the album without him insisting it be. Prince's time on Tidal was the end coming of the NPGMC, we just never got a chance to see it come into full bloom

 

1 over Jordan...the greatest since
Reply #133 posted 06/08/19 8:43pm

ufoclub

It's amazing how much the vocal on "Jungle Love" is like the one eventually recorded with Morris.

I'm disappointed that Sex Shooter isn't the more aggressive Vanity 6 arrangement (that I guess we already have in decent quality with Vanity's vocal). This one is a close match for the Purple Rain officially released arrangement which is not as cool to my ears.

[Edited 6/9/19 7:46am]

Reply #134 posted 06/08/19 10:41pm

FragileUndertow

TrivialPursuit said:

I learned after reading up on stuff that the guitar solo in "Dear Michaelangelo" was reused in "The Rapture" section of The Scandalous Sex Suite.

Here's one fan's review of the album.



I haven't compared them. But off the top of my head I thought it sounded familiar 👍👍
Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
Reply #135 posted 06/08/19 11:29pm

Johnytruelove8

Can't believe there are some dislikes for "You're my love".It's so good and unique.I love love love Prince's vocals.
I am extremely impressed with this release and I can't wait to buy it on CD June 21st.I might even get the vinyl.
[Edited 6/8/19 23:32pm]
Reply #136 posted 06/08/19 11:31pm

Johnytruelove8

Now I am curious about the Target Exclusive of NC2U
[Edited 6/8/19 23:34pm]
Reply #137 posted 06/09/19 12:05am

BartVanHemelen

popgodazipa said:

Se7en said:

Hope not. Why folks will not give Jay and Tidal their proper due for releasing the best set post...you know. Wait this is the org, that would be too easy. Say what you want about Jay the guy knows music and did a phenomenal job curating. I mean Love would not have been on the album without him insisting it be.

.

LTWBD sticks out like a sore thumb because it doesn't fit with the rest sound-wise.

.

And FYI Warners is releasing this set. Tidal simply got a two week streaming exclusive.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #138 posted 06/09/19 12:11am

BartVanHemelen

FragileUndertow said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I learned after reading up on stuff that the guitar solo in "Dear Michaelangelo" was reused in "The Rapture" section of The Scandalous Sex Suite.

Here's one fan's review of the album.

I haven't compared them. But off the top of my head I thought it sounded familiar 👍👍

.

This has been known for decades. http://www.princevault.co...haelangelo . Here's an org post from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/22508 and if you google it you'll get dozens of results.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #139 posted 06/09/19 12:22am

Kares

BartVanHemelen said:

FragileUndertow said:

TrivialPursuit said: I haven't compared them. But off the top of my head I thought it sounded familiar 👍👍

.

This has been known for decades. http://www.princevault.co...haelangelo . Here's an org post from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/22508 and if you google it you'll get dozens of results.

.

It's not just the guitar, other parts of 'Dear Michaelangelo' were reused for the Scandalous Sex Suite too.

[Edited 6/9/19 0:23am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #140 posted 06/09/19 12:55am

olb99

Kares said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

This has been known for decades. http://www.princevault.co...haelangelo . Here's an org post from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/22508 and if you google it you'll get dozens of results.

.

It's not just the guitar, other parts of 'Dear Michaelangelo' were reused for the Scandalous Sex Suite too.

[Edited 6/9/19 0:23am]

.

Which parts? You can't leave us hanging like that. biggrin

Reply #141 posted 06/09/19 12:57am

BlueShakooo

Thank you Neversin and databank for your interesting comments.
"Don't get too serious, it's just a dream."
Reply #142 posted 06/09/19 12:58am

dustoff

BartVanHemelen said:

FragileUndertow said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I learned after reading up on stuff that the guitar solo in "Dear Michaelangelo" was reused in "The Rapture" section of The Scandalous Sex Suite.

Here's one fan's review of the album.

I haven't compared them. But off the top of my head I thought it sounded familiar 👍👍

This has been known for decades. http://www.princevault.co...haelangelo . Here's an org post from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/22508 and if you google it you'll get dozens of results.

Your point? That because something is listed on Princevault, or if there was a thread about it 17 years ago, it should never again be raised in conversation?

The poster didn't claim to have discoverered the fact, just that s/he came across the information, which is relevent to this discussion.

Christ, ease up a little.

Reply #143 posted 06/09/19 1:06am

Kares

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.

It's not just the guitar, other parts of 'Dear Michaelangelo' were reused for the Scandalous Sex Suite too.

[Edited 6/9/19 0:23am]

.

Which parts? You can't leave us hanging like that. biggrin

.

Those thick, swirling synth parts (bass, pads and some choir- or strings-type of sounds too) throughout the song. Those are the foundations for the extended parts of Scandalous..

.

And as I'm just listening to the Scandalous Sex Suite again, I'm thinking about how much of Prince's output we took for granted while he was here and how deeply it must've saddened him when a lot of his releases were dismissed – or even ridiculed – by fans and critics alike for being self-indulgent, while he poured his heart into these absolutely stunning works of art. The Scandalous Sex Suite is an incredible masterpiece.

.

[Edited 6/9/19 1:20am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #144 posted 06/09/19 1:27am

olb99

Kares said:

olb99 said:

"La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes. D’autres figuraient sur des cassettes, mais certaines d’entre elles n’étaient pas d’assez bonne qualité d’un point de vue sonore. Nous avons donc réalisé un nouveau mix sur des bandes multipistes en nous basant sur les spécifications de la cassette. Au final, l’auditeur peut donc entendre ce qui figurait sur ces cassettes avec un son optimal."

.

Mixdown tapes are 1/4", not 1/2".

.

Thanks again for your informative answers. About the tapes: I don't know why it didn't strike me. I work on an archive database and we have 1/2", 1", and 2" multitrack tapes. The 1/4" tapes are stereo, of course. So I don't really understand what Michael Howe is saying: "La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes" = he's talking about rough mixes and 1/2" tapes in the same sentence. Maybe a problem with the translation from English to French...

Reply #145 posted 06/09/19 1:33am

Kares

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.

Mixdown tapes are 1/4", not 1/2".

.

Thanks again for your informative answers. About the tapes: I don't know why it didn't strike me. I work on an archive database and we have 1/2", 1", and 2" multitrack tapes. The 1/4" tapes are stereo, of course. So I don't really understand what Michael Howe is saying: "La plupart étaient disponibles sur des bandes analogiques 1/2 pouces et il s’agissait la plupart du temps de rough mixes" = he's talking about rough mixes and 1/2" tapes in the same sentence. Maybe a problem with the translation from English to French...

.

Unfortunately I don't speak French, but I guess the 1/2" is simply a typo. The vast majority of mixdown tapes are 1/4" and we can see these on the police photos taken in Paisley's vault too, but it's not always easy to distinguish the 1/4" and 1/2" tape boxes.

.

correction:
It's not a typo, some mixdown tapes are actually 1/2" – as I've just checked in my own Vault-spreadsheet smile (see below). The majority are 1/4" (and that's what most common in the industry) but there are 1/2" ones as well (based on the thickness of the tape boxes).

.

Apologies, my mistake.

[Edited 6/9/19 6:00am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #146 posted 06/09/19 5:04am

antonb

just had a little look at the shop at Q magazine and its got 5 stars but the right up is the size of a postage stamp ! same in uncut magazine. Disappointing coverage.

Reply #147 posted 06/09/19 6:09am

Giovanni777

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm very greatful for this. Cannot wait to own a physical copy

1. 100MPH: loving the extra guitar work ****
2. Baby You're A Trip: -is cool, never got into before, a good vocal workout, I enjoy hearing Prince singing the 'spoken' part **
3. Dear Michaelangelo: -always loved the song, love hearing the extra instrumentations, loving the drumming/linn. The opening I love, a combination of this and the released version would be perfection *****
4. Gigolos Get Lonely Too -Morris definately did a better job vocally, but this is one of very rare times we hear Prince singing lead on a Time piece ***
5. Holly Rock -never cared for the song so much, but loving this with the extra Minni sound and the use of the Romance 1600 band, it's wilder. I wish he would not have pulled back on the released version *****
6. Jungle Love -eh **
7. Love-Thy Will Be Done -nice, has that airy 90s feel with a touch of Batman-esque
8. Make Up -always loved this one, Susan or Prince great song *****
9. Manic Monday -should have been released through the Prince camp, and this confirms it even more
10. Noon Rendezvous -enjoy the evolution, simple cool ***
11. NC2U -heard before, I like the PR era sound ***
12. Sex Shooter -enjoy the evolution, nothing to shout about ***
13. The Glamorous Life -enjoy the evolution, Sheila E kicks it up 5 notches ***
14. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me -I LOVE this, the feel of that 79/80 period with some extra purple electricity and pump *****
15. My Love is 4Ever -I actually appreciate this, feels like a 1977 demo ***

.

I don't think Sheila's band is on 'Holly Rock'... that's all Prince. He calls out Steph, etc., but he's done things like that before with The Time. "Terry!"

"He's a musician's musician..."
Reply #148 posted 06/09/19 6:21am

djThunderfunk

Loefie said:

EmmaMcG said:
Just download it illegally. That's what I did.
Or wait a month and buy a physical copy. That’s what I’m doing. wink


Or, download it illegally, then wait 2 weeks (not a month) and buy a physical copy. That's what I'm doing.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #149 posted 06/09/19 6:27am

djThunderfunk

BartVanHemelen said:

popgodazipa said:

Se7en said:

.

LTWBD sticks out like a sore thumb because it doesn't fit with the rest sound-wise.

.

And FYI Warners is releasing this set. Tidal simply got a two week streaming exclusive.

Wasn't it announced as a joint release?

I believe the CD will have WB & Tidal listed, probably NPG Records as well.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #150 posted 06/09/19 6:33am

Kares

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

LTWBD sticks out like a sore thumb because it doesn't fit with the rest sound-wise.

.

And FYI Warners is releasing this set. Tidal simply got a two week streaming exclusive.

Wasn't it announced as a joint release?

I believe the CD will have WB & Tidal listed, probably NPG Records as well.

.

"NPG Records, under exclusive licence to Warner Records Inc."

So the copyright holder is NPG, they just license the material to Warners for a certain time period.

[Edited 6/9/19 6:38am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #151 posted 06/09/19 7:03am

djThunderfunk

Kares said:

djThunderfunk said:

Wasn't it announced as a joint release?

I believe the CD will have WB & Tidal listed, probably NPG Records as well.

.

"NPG Records, under exclusive licence to Warner Records Inc."

So the copyright holder is NPG, they just license the material to Warners for a certain time period.

[Edited 6/9/19 6:38am]


It won't say "Tidal" anywhere on the CD? Then I'm wrong. wink

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #152 posted 06/09/19 7:26am

BartVanHemelen

antonb said:

just had a little look at the shop at Q magazine and its got 5 stars but the right up is the size of a postage stamp ! same in uncut magazine. Disappointing coverage.

.

The review in Uncut is the average size for one, and his pisture is also on the next page (looks like a layout blunder that the review isn't next to the picture).

.

I haven't yet seen the Q magazine review, but IIRC these days they're barely reviewing records (maybe two dozen a month?) so the fact that Originals has gotten a review is a major feat.

.

UK music monthly Long Live Vinyl has a two-page review (well, one page is actually just a big photo of Prince), awards it 10 out of 10 and has awarded it its "Long Live Vinyl Choice" label (I haven't checked if this is awarded to only one release or multiple).

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #153 posted 06/09/19 7:27am

udo

djThunderfunk said:

Loefie said:

EmmaMcG said: Or wait a month and buy a physical copy. That’s what I’m doing. wink


Or, download it illegally, then wait 2 weeks (not a month) and buy a physical copy. That's what I'm doing.

.

I `ordered` (reserved) a copy already.

They'll will mail it when they get it...

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #154 posted 06/09/19 7:28am

udo

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

LTWBD sticks out like a sore thumb because it doesn't fit with the rest sound-wise.

.

And FYI Warners is releasing this set. Tidal simply got a two week streaming exclusive.

Wasn't it announced as a joint release?

I believe the CD will have WB & Tidal listed, probably NPG Records as well.

.

The flacs say:

Copyright : 2019 NPG Records, Inc., under exclusive license to Warner Records Inc.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #155 posted 06/09/19 8:51am

TrivialPursuit

BartVanHemelen said:

FragileUndertow said:

TrivialPursuit said: I haven't compared them. But off the top of my head I thought it sounded familiar 👍👍

.

This has been known for decades. http://www.princevault.co...haelangelo . Here's an org post from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/22508 and if you google it you'll get dozens of results.


[Snip - luv4u]

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
Reply #156 posted 06/09/19 9:38am

sro100

"Baby You're a Trip" is the standout as of this very second.

I've had this for years and years and years but not like this.

Reply #157 posted 06/09/19 10:03am

nextedition

[Snip - luv4u]

Reply #158 posted 06/09/19 10:19am

donnyenglish

We all love bootlegs. Originals is the greatest bootleg ever released. It is for fans like us. I don’t love his versions of Gigolos or You’re my Love, but I do love that I finally got to hear them and they are perfect tracks for the release.

We should be very careful about what we are asking for when we complain about the sound quality on tracks like Wouldn’t You Love to Love Me. The Estate is listening and we may only get finished and pristine vault material, which will mean we won’t get gems like that track. I suspect that there is a lot of stuff in the vault that is inferior sound quality that we would all die to hear.

We all need to support the physical release of Originals. The more we support releases like this the more we will get.
[Edited 6/9/19 10:21am]
[Edited 6/9/19 14:23pm]
Reply #159 posted 06/09/19 11:48am

TheSilentMikey

donnyenglish said:

We all love bootlegs. Originals is the greatest bootleg ever released. It is for fans like us. I don’t love his versions of Gigolos or You’re my Love, but I do love that I finally got to hear them and they are perfect tracks for the release. We should be very careful about what we are asking for when we complain about the sound quality on tracks like Wouldn’t You Love to Love Me. The Estate is listening and we may only get finished and pristine vault material, which will mean we won’t get gems like that track. I suspect that there is a lot of stuff in the vault that is inferior sound quality that we would all die to hear. We all need to support the physical release or Originals. The more we support releases like this the more we will get. [Edited 6/9/19 10:21am]

If you want more posthumous mixes of unreleased music, go ahead.

"Don't need no Reefer. Don't need Cocaine. Purple Music does the same to my brain."
Reply #160 posted 06/09/19 11:55am

OnlyNDaUsa

TheSilentMikey said:

donnyenglish said:

We all love bootlegs. Originals is the greatest bootleg ever released. It is for fans like us. I don’t love his versions of Gigolos or You’re my Love, but I do love that I finally got to hear them and they are perfect tracks for the release. We should be very careful about what we are asking for when we complain about the sound quality on tracks like Wouldn’t You Love to Love Me. The Estate is listening and we may only get finished and pristine vault material, which will mean we won’t get gems like that track. I suspect that there is a lot of stuff in the vault that is inferior sound quality that we would all die to hear. We all need to support the physical release or Originals. The more we support releases like this the more we will get. [Edited 6/9/19 10:21am]

If you want more posthumous mixes of unreleased music, go ahead.

on the other hand if they do not sell well enought the may get sold to some 3rd party who will do all kinds of carp with them.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #161 posted 06/09/19 1:20pm

udo

sro100 said:

"Baby You're a Trip" is the standout as of this very second.

I've had this for years and years and years but not like this.

.

What are the differences?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #162 posted 06/09/19 1:27pm

udo

donnyenglish said:

We all love bootlegs.

.

Yes!

.

Originals is the greatest bootleg ever released.

.

No, but I see what you are trying to say here.

.

The Estate is listening and we may only get finished and pristine vault material, which will mean we won’t get gems like that track.

.

They can sell me cassette tape materials but then they have to explain in the liner notes that there was no other, better version in the Vault. Same when `reconstructing` songs.

This was lacking in the PR rerelease.

I do hope the booklet to Originals contains this info but I will hot hold my breath.

The Estate should have a look at the James Brown compilations like Make It Funky – The Big Payback: 1971-1975, Dead on the Heavy Funk: 1975-1983, Funky Good Time: The Anthology, etc. The 'James Brown team' did not hide when it came to technical issues and mention these.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #163 posted 06/09/19 2:22pm

donnyenglish

udo said:

 



donnyenglish said:



We all love bootlegs.

.


Yes!


.


Originals is the greatest bootleg ever released.

.


No, but I see what you are trying to say here.


.


The Estate is listening and we may only get finished and pristine vault material, which will mean we won’t get gems like that track.

.


They can sell me cassette tape materials but then they have to explain in the liner notes that there was no other, better version in the Vault. Same when `reconstructing` songs.


This was lacking in the PR rerelease.


I do hope the booklet to Originals contains this info but I will hot hold my breath.


The Estate should have a look at the James Brown compilations like Make It Funky – The Big Payback: 1971-1975, Dead on the Heavy Funk: 1975-1983, Funky Good Time: The Anthology, etc. The 'James Brown team' did not hide when it came to technical issues and mention these.


Agreed.
Reply #164 posted 06/09/19 3:56pm

sro100

Okay I've had this on repeat now for days now.

Nothing like a "new" Prine abit!

Reply #165 posted 06/09/19 6:24pm

Doozer

udo said:

 



sro100 said:


"Baby You're a Trip" is the standout as of this very second.  


 


I've had this for years and years and years but not like this. 



.


What are the differences?



For me it’s the ending of the song, which includes Prince’s vocals the way Jill’s version ends -

...Idon’tcareyou’reatripandahalf
Iwantchaeveryday
HEY!
Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
Reply #166 posted 06/09/19 7:07pm

Milty2

I'm not into the proteges like many other Prince fans are but I have my preferences. But this Originals album is KILLER (aside from the awful cover art).

I feel like Gigolos Get Lonely Too is a completely new song I've never heard before. Oh my Lord that song is so good. I can't wait to get this on CD.

Reply #167 posted 06/09/19 8:53pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

sro100 said:

"Baby You're a Trip" is the standout as of this very second.  


 


I've had this for years and years and years but not like this. 



Yep.

I have to hand it to whomever mixed this all out. Who knows what the state of the recordings were when they got their hands on them, but the mix is so fucking tasteful. So good. The voices, the music, all the little flourishes are at the perfect level.

I sincerely hope the people behind this compilation get props during awards season.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #168 posted 06/09/19 8:59pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

Milty2 said:

I'm not into the proteges like many other Prince fans are but I have my preferences. But this Originals album is KILLER (aside from the awful cover art).


 


I feel like Gigolos Get Lonely Too is a completely new song I've never heard before. Oh my Lord that song is so good. I can't wait to get this on CD.



Yep
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #169 posted 06/09/19 9:20pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

I have a funny feeling this compilation is going to get a shitload of streaming. And I don't know if it's my imagination, but all the music on Tidal does seem to sound better than Spotify and Apple music to my ears.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #170 posted 06/10/19 2:49am

Loefie

EmmaMcG said:

Loefie said:



Or wait a month and buy a physical copy. That’s what I’m doing. wink


I am also going to do that. I had to hear it first though to make sure it was worth buying.


And, is it worth the buy? wink
Produced, Arranged, Composed & Performed by PRINCE


"Rotterdam, we come to jam!"
Reply #171 posted 06/10/19 3:25am

Neversin

So people will stop orgnoting and mailing:


I did, and am still doing, a comparison of my (fully logged and researched) versions and "Originals" and this is what I concluded for now, enjoy:

This list is not definite and take it FWIW... I'll probably update it when other versions are found so this is by no means a static end-all-be-all conclusion...

But to me this proves that Howe and all the others at Paisley Park are ignorant about his recordings and their bullshit claim of not ever releasing his unfinished material, which they just did... So they could easily just release "Black Is The New Black" as is, warts and all...



1. Sex Shooter - is faded out unnecessarily since the full on "Prince" guide version (which this version is) is just a couple of minutes longer and could have fit easily on the CD; vinyl on the other hand...
Probably why they faded it out, because of some shitty medium for dumb Millennial hipsters who don't even know anything about mastering and parrot the retarded "vinyl sounds warmer" mantra... MASTERING - MEDIUM...

2. Jungle Love - is, for now, the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this is seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

3. Manic Monday - "Frankenstein" hybrid of added background vocals recorded for the Apollonia 6 version, so this is an already "work-in-progress" unfinished version... They should have released the final full version with Prince's background vocals before he embarked on working on it for Apollonia 6...

4. Noon Rendezvous - The version on "Originals" seems to just be his piano and vocals take, so another "half" release of the song... His full version is the version of Sheila E. with this vocal and piano take and some bass lines removed from the Sheila E. version...

5. Make Up - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

6. 100 MPH - An edited mess, no clue why they (or maybe even Prince himself?) cut up this song other than that the tape was damaged... The full on version of this exact version is slightly longer with the full intro and would have fit easily on the CD...

7. You're My Love - This is an unnecessarily faded out version of the exact version that was sent to Clare Fisher; he recorded his orchestra and cheesed it up (IMO) and that version was sent to Kenny Rogers... So this is a faded out version of Prince's final version...

8. Holly Rock - This is a mess, too much to list...

9. Baby, You're A Trip - Jill Jones' backing vocal were recorded after Prince's final version (the version that is on bootlegs without Jill) which he considered for one of his own albums... So another "work-in-progress" unfinished version...

10. The Glamorous Life - Heavily edited from the full version and faded out unnecessarily...

11. Gigolo's Get Lonely Too - Faded out unnecessarily, which could have been an epic release if they let it go for the full 10+ minutes...

12. Love.. Thy Will B Done - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too is a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...
I think the guitar track was added after Martika did her takes...

13. Dear Michaelangelo - Another "work-in-progress" version... Prince's final full version has a synth playing Eddie M.'s sax lines...

14. Wouldn't You Love To Love Me? - The (unecessarily) faded out 1981/1982 original (not counting his 1976 home studio recorded version...) now the CD would become filled over the rim, so an understandable fade out since it's the most uninteresting... I fully expected the 1987 Michael Jackson/Taja Seville version to be on this disk, not the 1981/1982 version...

15. Nothing Compares 2 U - Discussed ad nauseum, ask Databank for the details I provided him when the 7" dropped last year...

Neversin.

[Edited 6/10/19 3:27am]

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #172 posted 06/10/19 3:26am

djdaffy1227

I can't get enough of "Manic Monday". I love the way he sings it. It sounds so melancholy. I love this whole album. It was so surreal and overwhelming on my first listen to hear these songs I know so well from other artists to have Prince's vocals on them. I want more releases like this and less reissues.

Making love and music are the only things worth fighting for.
Reply #173 posted 06/10/19 3:43am

databank

Neversin said:

So people will stop orgnoting and mailing:


I did, and am still doing, a comparison of my (fully logged and researched) versions and "Originals" and this is what I concluded for now, enjoy:

This list is not definite and take it FWIW... I'll probably update it when other versions are found so this is by no means a static end-all-be-all conclusion...

But to me this proves that Howe and all the others at Paisley Park are ignorant about his recordings and their bullshit claim of not ever releasing his unfinished material, which they just did... So they could easily just release "Black Is The New Black" as is, warts and all...



1. Sex Shooter - is faded out unnecessarily since the full on "Prince" guide version (which this version is) is just a couple of minutes longer and could have fit easily on the CD; vinyl on the other hand...
Probably why they faded it out, because of some shitty medium for dumb Millennial hipsters who don't even know anything about mastering and parrot the retarded "vinyl sounds warmer" mantra... MASTERING - MEDIUM...

2. Jungle Love - is, for now, the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this is seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

3. Manic Monday - "Frankenstein" hybrid of added background vocals recorded for the Apollonia 6 version, so this is an already "work-in-progress" unfinished version... They should have released the final full version with Prince's background vocals before he embarked on working on it for Apollonia 6...

4. Noon Rendezvous - The version on "Originals" seems to just be his piano and vocals take, so another "half" release of the song... His full version is the version of Sheila E. with this vocal and piano take and some bass lines removed from the Sheila E. version...

5. Make Up - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

6. 100 MPH - An edited mess, no clue why they (or maybe even Prince himself?) cut up this song other than that the tape was damaged... The full on version of this exact version is slightly longer with the full intro and would have fit easily on the CD...

7. You're My Love - This is an unnecessarily faded out version of the exact version that was sent to Clare Fisher; he recorded his orchestra and cheesed it up (IMO) and that version was sent to Kenny Rogers... So this is a faded out version of Prince's final version...

8. Holly Rock - This is a mess, too much to list...

9. Baby, You're A Trip - Jill Jones' backing vocal were recorded after Prince's final version (the version that is on bootlegs without Jill) which he considered for one of his own albums... So another "work-in-progress" unfinished version...

10. The Glamorous Life - Heavily edited from the full version and faded out unnecessarily...

11. Gigolo's Get Lonely Too - Faded out unnecessarily, which could have been an epic release if they let it go for the full 10+ minutes...

12. Love.. Thy Will B Done - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too is a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...
I think the guitar track was added after Martika did her takes...

13. Dear Michaelangelo - Another "work-in-progress" version... Prince's final full version has a synth playing Eddie M.'s sax lines...

14. Wouldn't You Love To Love Me? - The (unecessarily) faded out 1981/1982 original (not counting his 1976 home studio recorded version...) now the CD would become filled over the rim, so an understandable fade out since it's the most uninteresting... I fully expected the 1987 Michael Jackson/Taja Seville version to be on this disk, not the 1981/1982 version...

15. Nothing Compares 2 U - Discussed ad nauseum, ask Databank for the details I provided him when the 7" dropped last year...

Neversin.

[Edited 6/10/19 3:27am]

Thx for posting this hug

As promised I will do my own investigation with the known logs and ask other people I know in order to build a strong case and provide as much info as possible, but this already is unvaluable info biggrin

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #174 posted 06/10/19 3:49am

jaawwnn

Neversin said:


11. Gigolo's Get Lonely Too - Faded out unnecessarily, which could have been an epic release if they let it go for the full 10+ minutes...


GODDAM.

Reply #175 posted 06/10/19 4:12am

Moonbeam

Thanks, Neversin! Would love to hear some of these versions you mention, particularly the 10+ minute “Gigolos Get Lonely Too”. Hopefully the Estate finds and releases these versions someday.
Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #176 posted 06/10/19 4:20am

Neversin

Moonbeam said:

Thanks, Neversin! Would love to hear some of these versions you mention, particularly the 10+ minute “Gigolos Get Lonely Too”. Hopefully the Estate finds and releases these versions someday.


That belongs on a Hyper-Multi-Ultra-Super-Deluxe-Diamond-Guru-Master Ultimate boxset with "Vanity 6", "What Time Is It?" and "1999"... Which is the least that that era deserves...
The "Purple Rain" era is cute... 1981-1983 is the most epic era in the history of recorded music and it all came from just 1 guy... And then came 1984-1987...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #177 posted 06/10/19 4:22am

Kares

databank said:

Neversin said:

So people will stop orgnoting and mailing:


I did, and am still doing, a comparison of my (fully logged and researched) versions and "Originals" and this is what I concluded for now, enjoy:

This list is not definite and take it FWIW... I'll probably update it when other versions are found so this is by no means a static end-all-be-all conclusion...

But to me this proves that Howe and all the others at Paisley Park are ignorant about his recordings and their bullshit claim of not ever releasing his unfinished material, which they just did... So they could easily just release "Black Is The New Black" as is, warts and all...



1. Sex Shooter - is faded out unnecessarily since the full on "Prince" guide version (which this version is) is just a couple of minutes longer and could have fit easily on the CD; vinyl on the other hand...
Probably why they faded it out, because of some shitty medium for dumb Millennial hipsters who don't even know anything about mastering and parrot the retarded "vinyl sounds warmer" mantra... MASTERING - MEDIUM...

2. Jungle Love - is, for now, the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this is seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

3. Manic Monday - "Frankenstein" hybrid of added background vocals recorded for the Apollonia 6 version, so this is an already "work-in-progress" unfinished version... They should have released the final full version with Prince's background vocals before he embarked on working on it for Apollonia 6...

4. Noon Rendezvous - The version on "Originals" seems to just be his piano and vocals take, so another "half" release of the song... His full version is the version of Sheila E. with this vocal and piano take and some bass lines removed from the Sheila E. version...

5. Make Up - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

6. 100 MPH - An edited mess, no clue why they (or maybe even Prince himself?) cut up this song other than that the tape was damaged... The full on version of this exact version is slightly longer with the full intro and would have fit easily on the CD...

7. You're My Love - This is an unnecessarily faded out version of the exact version that was sent to Clare Fisher; he recorded his orchestra and cheesed it up (IMO) and that version was sent to Kenny Rogers... So this is a faded out version of Prince's final version...

8. Holly Rock - This is a mess, too much to list...

9. Baby, You're A Trip - Jill Jones' backing vocal were recorded after Prince's final version (the version that is on bootlegs without Jill) which he considered for one of his own albums... So another "work-in-progress" unfinished version...

10. The Glamorous Life - Heavily edited from the full version and faded out unnecessarily...

11. Gigolo's Get Lonely Too - Faded out unnecessarily, which could have been an epic release if they let it go for the full 10+ minutes...

12. Love.. Thy Will B Done - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too is a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...
I think the guitar track was added after Martika did her takes...

13. Dear Michaelangelo - Another "work-in-progress" version... Prince's final full version has a synth playing Eddie M.'s sax lines...

14. Wouldn't You Love To Love Me? - The (unecessarily) faded out 1981/1982 original (not counting his 1976 home studio recorded version...) now the CD would become filled over the rim, so an understandable fade out since it's the most uninteresting... I fully expected the 1987 Michael Jackson/Taja Seville version to be on this disk, not the 1981/1982 version...

15. Nothing Compares 2 U - Discussed ad nauseum, ask Databank for the details I provided him when the 7" dropped last year...

Neversin.

[Edited 6/10/19 3:27am]

Thx for posting this hug

As promised I will do my own investigation with the known logs and ask other people I know in order to build a strong case and provide as much info as possible, but this already is unvaluable info biggrin

.
Thanks, Neversin.
A few additional things though: there are speed-issues too (again), especially with 'Sex Shooter' and 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me'. The former is below, the latter is above normal pitch, but some others aren't 100% spot on either.
.
Also: just because some songs sound identical to the copies you or others had for ages, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are final versions as Prince would've released them on an album. They can still be incomplete, and can be raw mixes, and certainly many of the mixdown tapes in the vault were just raw mixes. Compare 'Make-Up' with the Vanity 6 version, for example, and it's clear the newly released version is lacking a ton of effects. 'Baby, You're A Trip' is also dry – don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE it and have already listened to it about 80x, but I don't think it is how P would've released it.
.
So even the songs that were left more or less as is, it is questionable whether they truly reflect Prince's intentions.

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #178 posted 06/10/19 4:31am

olb99

Thanks Kares, Neversin, Databank, and others for you invaluable information.

Reply #179 posted 06/10/19 4:36am

Neversin

Kares said:

databank said:

Thx for posting this hug

As promised I will do my own investigation with the known logs and ask other people I know in order to build a strong case and provide as much info as possible, but this already is unvaluable info biggrin

.
Thanks, Neversin.
A few additional things though: there are speed-issues too (again), especially with 'Sex Shooter' and 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me'. The former is below, the latter is above normal pitch, but some others aren't 100% spot on either.
.
Also: just because some songs sound identical to the copies you or others had for ages, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are final versions as Prince would've released them on an album. They can still be incomplete, and can be raw mixes, and certainly many of the mixdown tapes in the vault were just raw mixes. Compare 'Make-Up' with the Vanity 6 version, for example, and it's clear the newly released version is lacking a ton of effects. 'Baby, You're A Trip' is also dry – don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE it and have already listened to it about 80x, but I don't think it is how P would've released it.
.
So even the songs that were left more or less as is, it is questionable whether they truly reflect Prince's intentions.

.


I know, I worded it wrong...
Logs and past info claim that in the example of "Make Up" the SFX were added after he already worked on the track with Vanity 6...
Same with "Love... Thy Will B Done" Martika did her background vocals before Prince did the guitar parts... So, like I said, this is not an end-all-be-all conclusion, but in the case of these 2 songs I'm 99.9% certain that these are the final versions...

And regarding speed issues; this release also suffers, like "Purple Rain" Deluxe ("We Can Fuck" having the most glaring ones) from the occasional "Tape slip"...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #180 posted 06/10/19 4:38am

fabriziovenerandi

"I think Prince never...".

Ok, but Prince is not here and we have not note about how Prince could have released those songs.


I appreciated that the songs were edited to have a more pleasant album to listen to. Prince has always done the same thing. I think it is useful now to bring out beautiful albums and not monolithic archives of tracks.

[Edited 6/10/19 4:41am]

Reply #181 posted 06/10/19 4:43am

Kares

Neversin said:

Kares said:

.
Thanks, Neversin.
A few additional things though: there are speed-issues too (again), especially with 'Sex Shooter' and 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me'. The former is below, the latter is above normal pitch, but some others aren't 100% spot on either.
.
Also: just because some songs sound identical to the copies you or others had for ages, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are final versions as Prince would've released them on an album. They can still be incomplete, and can be raw mixes, and certainly many of the mixdown tapes in the vault were just raw mixes. Compare 'Make-Up' with the Vanity 6 version, for example, and it's clear the newly released version is lacking a ton of effects. 'Baby, You're A Trip' is also dry – don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE it and have already listened to it about 80x, but I don't think it is how P would've released it.
.
So even the songs that were left more or less as is, it is questionable whether they truly reflect Prince's intentions.

.


I know, I worded it wrong...
Logs and past info claim that in the example of "Make Up" the SFX were added after he already worked on the track with Vanity 6...
Same with "Love... Thy Will B Done" Martika did her background vocals before Prince did the guitar parts... So, like I said, this is not an end-all-be-all conclusion, but in the case of these 2 songs I'm 99.9% certain that these are the final versions...

And regarding speed issues; this release also suffers, like "Purple Rain" Deluxe ("We Can Fuck" having the most glaring ones) from the occasional "Tape slip"...

Neversin.

.

I understand that the effects were added during mixing for Vanity 6, for example. What I mean is that just because Prince left his own, initial version at the stage of a quick, raw mix, doesn't mean that he wouldn't have added effects to it had he decided to put it out on one of his own albums. We simply don't know, and the existence of the raw mixdown tape is no proof for his intentions.
I'd even go as far to say that in my opinion it is unlikely he would've released such a raw (and totally dry) mix.
.

[Edited 6/10/19 4:45am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #182 posted 06/10/19 4:52am

udo

Interesting findings by Neversin and others.

How can we get these properly to the Estate and associated parties that are involved with releases like this?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #183 posted 06/10/19 5:25am

olb99

udo said:

Interesting findings by Neversin and others.

How can we get these properly to the Estate and associated parties that are involved with releases like this?

.

Via LinkedIn? https://www.linkedin.com/...-0426422a/

Twitter? https://mobile.twitter.co...haelHoweLA

[Edited 6/10/19 5:27am]

Reply #184 posted 06/10/19 5:30am

udo

olb99 said:

udo said:

Interesting findings by Neversin and others.

How can we get these properly to the Estate and associated parties that are involved with releases like this?

.

Via LinkedIn? https://www.linkedin.com/...-0426422a/

Twitter? https://mobile.twitter.co...haelHoweLA

[Edited 6/10/19 5:27am]

.

Are we sure that this Michael is the man that has any say, any influence over the processes that result in an album release?

He did not really say anything in whatever I read here from or about him.

So is he the right person?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #185 posted 06/10/19 5:30am

BartVanHemelen

The NME reveals what it has learned from talking to Michael Howe: https://www.nme.com/blogs...um-2506506

.

This includes:

.

Last year, Drake featured some unreleased Michael Jackson vocals on the song ‘Don’t Matter To Me’, taken from his album ‘Scorpion’, which divided opinion amongst MJ fans. Some questioned the authenticity of the vocals while others claimed the use of the vocals were unethical. Jackson’s nephew Austin Brown later hit out at the rapper for using the vocals without direct permission.

.
Asking Howe if any artists had reached out to use some of Prince’s previously unreleased vocals, and whether or not the estate would even consider it, he explained he couldn’t really talk about it because “I’ve had to sign a tremendous amount of confidentiality agreements.” However, he did admit some artists had put in requests. “It has been fewer than seven. It’s somewhere between three and seven, I would say,” he revealed. “I think that circumstances would have to be extraordinary to contemplate something like that. Again, I’m not the unilateral arbiter of whether or not that happens, but it has been discussed.”

.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #186 posted 06/10/19 5:57am

Moonbeam

Neversin said:

 



Moonbeam said:


Thanks, Neversin! Would love to hear some of these versions you mention, particularly the 10+ minute “Gigolos Get Lonely Too”. Hopefully the Estate finds and releases these versions someday.


That belongs on a Hyper-Multi-Ultra-Super-Deluxe-Diamond-Guru-Master Ultimate boxset with "Vanity 6", "What Time Is It?" and "1999"... Which is the least that that era deserves...
The "Purple Rain" era is cute... 1981-1983 is the most epic era in the history of recorded music and it all came from just 1 guy... And then came 1984-1987...

Neversin.



Agreed completely. 1981-83 is just insane.
Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #187 posted 06/10/19 6:08am

billymeade

Listening to Originals had me thinking... where's Sheila? Every article has interviews with Jill, Appolonia, Susannah... but Sheila, whose songs make up a big chunk of the album, seems to be completely missing from the press around this.

Reply #188 posted 06/10/19 6:36am

Allanya

Can't stop from listening to this song. cool cool cool

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too The Time: What Time Is It? – 1982 1982

Reply #189 posted 06/10/19 6:49am

databank

BartVanHemelen said:

The NME reveals what it has learned from talking to Michael Howe: https://www.nme.com/blogs...um-2506506

.

This includes:

.

Last year, Drake featured some unreleased Michael Jackson vocals on the song ‘Don’t Matter To Me’, taken from his album ‘Scorpion’, which divided opinion amongst MJ fans. Some questioned the authenticity of the vocals while others claimed the use of the vocals were unethical. Jackson’s nephew Austin Brown later hit out at the rapper for using the vocals without direct permission.

.
Asking Howe if any artists had reached out to use some of Prince’s previously unreleased vocals, and whether or not the estate would even consider it, he explained he couldn’t really talk about it because “I’ve had to sign a tremendous amount of confidentiality agreements.” However, he did admit some artists had put in requests. “It has been fewer than seven. It’s somewhere between three and seven, I would say,” he revealed. “I think that circumstances would have to be extraordinary to contemplate something like that. Again, I’m not the unilateral arbiter of whether or not that happens, but it has been discussed.”

.

The NME could have learned some of this by talking to us.

No offense to Mr . Howe but his take on the "somebody bring me a mirror" line is wrong. time members have explained countless times how that line came-up during a rehearsal, and it goes back to long before Jungle Love. this is another prime example of why they need people like Duane to help with those releases in terms of what was recorded whe, how and why.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #190 posted 06/10/19 6:50am

Neversin

Kares said:

Neversin said:


I know, I worded it wrong...
Logs and past info claim that in the example of "Make Up" the SFX were added after he already worked on the track with Vanity 6...
Same with "Love... Thy Will B Done" Martika did her background vocals before Prince did the guitar parts... So, like I said, this is not an end-all-be-all conclusion, but in the case of these 2 songs I'm 99.9% certain that these are the final versions...

And regarding speed issues; this release also suffers, like "Purple Rain" Deluxe ("We Can Fuck" having the most glaring ones) from the occasional "Tape slip"...

Neversin.

.

I understand that the effects were added during mixing for Vanity 6, for example. What I mean is that just because Prince left his own, initial version at the stage of a quick, raw mix, doesn't mean that he wouldn't have added effects to it had he decided to put it out on one of his own albums. We simply don't know, and the existence of the raw mixdown tape is no proof for his intentions.
I'd even go as far to say that in my opinion it is unlikely he would've released such a raw (and totally dry) mix.
.

[Edited 6/10/19 4:45am]


The songs on "Originals" weren't for release and had a clear purpose...
In the case of "Make Up" it's quite obvious that he only made a vocal guide for Susan Moonsie to mimic and left it as that, there was no purpose other than that for that particular track...

If Prince wanted to "finish" some of these tracks he would have; let's take "Nothing Compares 2 U" for example in 1990/1991 he picked up the version of the track from before Paul did his vocals then put in Clare's parts, left off Eric Leeds' sax and Susannahs vocals and added new things only to start from scratch and re-record the song entirely some months later...
Now what is considered Prince's final version of that song? The 1984 version before Eric Leeds did his part or after the sax part? Or the version from 1990/1991 where he worked on the initial 1984 track again? Or the 1991 re-recording?
I understand this is a tricky thing but this shit on "Originals" is bonkers and just lazily put together without any thought (I doubt the liner notes will have anything of worth on this issue...)
Adding tracks recorded for the version of which he already decided not to release it himself to Prince's version is just wrong...
Now we're just prone to an interpretation of whomever has access to the tracks instead of a proper document/time capsule of person who created it...
They should just leave everything as is and stop fucking around with them, the only person who had the right to play with these tracks isn't around anymore...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #191 posted 06/10/19 6:54am

databank

billymeade said:

Listening to Originals had me thinking... where's Sheila? Every article has interviews with Jill, Appolonia, Susannah... but Sheila, whose songs make up a big chunk of the album, seems to be completely missing from the press around this.

IDK about that but someone complained earlier that Sheila got author's credit on some of her songs on Tidal. Noon Rendezvous is copyrighted as a Prince/Sheila E composition (and probably is). Holly Rock and everything on Romance 1600 are copyrighted as pure Sheila compositions (save Love Bizarre which is Prince/Sheila), while research revealed that she, in fact, didn't write any of the material. Sheila herself inadvertedly explained why Prince was so generous in her Redbull Academy interview, where she says that she didn't pay attention to her exenses during the PR Tour and was suddenly presented a bill of 100 thousand dollars or so, and panicked. No wonder, then, than Prince gave her his royalties: she was in dire need of money in 1985.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #192 posted 06/10/19 6:59am

Se7en

Thanks Neversin for the breakdown!

Trying to think like just a casual listener (it's hard to do!) but the things that are glaring to me are those very weird, almost sampled screams on 100 MPH (were those in any other version?!) and the really bad quality of Wouldn't You Love To Love Me.

And yes, Love Thy Will Be Done does not belong on a set focusing on the early-to-mid 80s.

Prince Estate: if you're reading this, there are experts here in this Forum that you'd be wise to enlist on future projects!

Reply #193 posted 06/10/19 7:00am

SchlomoThaHomo

Has anyone provided an explanation as to why the vocal track on 100 MPH is muddy in sound compared to the rest of tracks on it? I thought it was perhaps a vocal effect used during recording, but after repeated listens I'm not so sure. shrug

"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
Reply #194 posted 06/10/19 7:02am

databank

fabriziovenerandi said:

"I think Prince never...".

Ok, but Prince is not here and we have not note about how Prince could have released those songs.


I appreciated that the songs were edited to have a more pleasant album to listen to. Prince has always done the same thing. I think it is useful now to bring out beautiful albums and not monolithic archives of tracks.

[Edited 6/10/19 4:41am]

I agree that whether Prince would have released a song in any state is irrelevant now. If he didn't release something, he didn't, and any "work in progress" version that was mixed on any given day is acceptable. However those archive releases should not be made to "make a more pleasant listening experience". I'm sorry, I know it's a business and the estate is there to capitalize on the catalogue but it's not about us, it's about Prince's legacy. Any such given "work in progress" version should be released as it was on Day X, not tinkered with, edited or overdubbed with elements recorded at a later date. It is vanity for anyone to believe that "this or that is the way Prince would have wanted it", knowing Prince and how unpredictable he was in his choices. What he released was "how he wanted it" and should be left alone as such, and what he didn't release should be released as such, i.e. as it was found because it is what he left. Anyone who is incapable of enjoying NC2U without the Family background vocals or the strings because it's not "polished" enough doesn't deserve to hear the song in the first place. And if they're going to do any such thing for the sake of making the songs more acceptable, they should at least release the original on the side (as with Michael's last posthumous album) and/or say exactly what they did and why.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #195 posted 06/10/19 7:03am

databank

djThunderfunk said:

Kares said:

.

"NPG Records, under exclusive licence to Warner Records Inc."

So the copyright holder is NPG, they just license the material to Warners for a certain time period.

[Edited 6/9/19 6:38am]


It won't say "Tidal" anywhere on the CD? Then I'm wrong. wink

NPG owns the masters, WB owns the distribution for a certain amount of time. Tidal only has 2 weeks of exclusive distribution, Tidal is not a label.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #196 posted 06/10/19 7:08am

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

Thx for posting this hug

As promised I will do my own investigation with the known logs and ask other people I know in order to build a strong case and provide as much info as possible, but this already is unvaluable info biggrin

.
Thanks, Neversin.
A few additional things though: there are speed-issues too (again), especially with 'Sex Shooter' and 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me'. The former is below, the latter is above normal pitch, but some others aren't 100% spot on either.
.
Also: just because some songs sound identical to the copies you or others had for ages, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are final versions as Prince would've released them on an album. They can still be incomplete, and can be raw mixes, and certainly many of the mixdown tapes in the vault were just raw mixes. Compare 'Make-Up' with the Vanity 6 version, for example, and it's clear the newly released version is lacking a ton of effects. 'Baby, You're A Trip' is also dry – don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE it and have already listened to it about 80x, but I don't think it is how P would've released it.
.
So even the songs that were left more or less as is, it is questionable whether they truly reflect Prince's intentions.

.

Thanks for your expertise, the info you bring is also really useful hug

BTW I always meant to ask you: how do you know the pitch on P&AM83 is wrong? I mean I beleive you, I just wonder how you can tell without another version to ompare it with?

As for P's intentions, I think as I said above that it's not the point. We can only tell what his intentions were when he released a song in his lifetime. Everything in the vault is just "work in progress as it xas on Day X", and should be released as such. We know from Duane's book that at some point he'd ask for a cassette mixdown. that's version A. Then maybe he'd overdub later and ask for another mixdown. That's version B. And then maybe some time later..., etc.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #197 posted 06/10/19 7:09am

Kares

Neversin said:

Kares said:

.

I understand that the effects were added during mixing for Vanity 6, for example. What I mean is that just because Prince left his own, initial version at the stage of a quick, raw mix, doesn't mean that he wouldn't have added effects to it had he decided to put it out on one of his own albums. We simply don't know, and the existence of the raw mixdown tape is no proof for his intentions.
I'd even go as far to say that in my opinion it is unlikely he would've released such a raw (and totally dry) mix.
.

[Edited 6/10/19 4:45am]


The songs on "Originals" weren't for release and had a clear purpose...
In the case of "Make Up" it's quite obvious that he only made a vocal guide for Susan Moonsie to mimic and left it as that, there was no purpose other than that for that particular track...

If Prince wanted to "finish" some of these tracks he would have; let's take "Nothing Compares 2 U" for example in 1990/1991 he picked up the version of the track from before Paul did his vocals then put in Clare's parts, left off Eric Leeds' sax and Susannahs vocals and added new things only to start from scratch and re-record the song entirely some months later...
Now what is considered Prince's final version of that song? The 1984 version before Eric Leeds did his part or after the sax part? Or the version from 1990/1991 where he worked on the initial 1984 track again? Or the 1991 re-recording?
I understand this is a tricky thing but this shit on "Originals" is bonkers and just lazily put together without any thought (I doubt the liner notes will have anything of worth on this issue...)
Adding tracks recorded for the version of which he already decided not to release it himself to Prince's version is just wrong...
Now we're just prone to an interpretation of whomever has access to the tracks instead of a proper document/time capsule of person who created it...
They should just leave everything as is and stop fucking around with them, the only person who had the right to play with these tracks isn't around anymore...

Neversin.

.
I hear you, and trust me, I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you on these things and even though I do enjoy listening to these tracks now, I am just as pissed/disappointed about his legacy being in the wrong hands and the apparent lack of knowledge, care and respect behind the posthumous releases.
.

My only point regarding 'Make-Up' was: in my opinion it is wrong to release a raw (dry) mix when we do have a fairly good idea of how he liked that song to sound as he already released it on 'Vanity 6'. So if it was left up to me I would've recreated the sound of the Vanity 6 mix, with those same effects, with Prince's vocals, instead of leaving it dry and lacking the same punch that the V6 version has. And of course I would've kept the drum intro too...

.
Of course it's far more complicated to decide what could've been a final version when there are multiple recordings of the same song, for a single-disc release such as 'Originals' I'd just go for the best or most significant, completed verision – but the key is clearly communicating the reasons behind such decisions, and of course eventually I'd put almost everything out on several box sets for the real collectors.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #198 posted 06/10/19 7:13am

databank

Neversin said:

Kares said:

.

I understand that the effects were added during mixing for Vanity 6, for example. What I mean is that just because Prince left his own, initial version at the stage of a quick, raw mix, doesn't mean that he wouldn't have added effects to it had he decided to put it out on one of his own albums. We simply don't know, and the existence of the raw mixdown tape is no proof for his intentions.
I'd even go as far to say that in my opinion it is unlikely he would've released such a raw (and totally dry) mix.
.

[Edited 6/10/19 4:45am]


The songs on "Originals" weren't for release and had a clear purpose...
In the case of "Make Up" it's quite obvious that he only made a vocal guide for Susan Moonsie to mimic and left it as that, there was no purpose other than that for that particular track...

If Prince wanted to "finish" some of these tracks he would have; let's take "Nothing Compares 2 U" for example in 1990/1991 he picked up the version of the track from before Paul did his vocals then put in Clare's parts, left off Eric Leeds' sax and Susannahs vocals and added new things only to start from scratch and re-record the song entirely some months later...
Now what is considered Prince's final version of that song? The 1984 version before Eric Leeds did his part or after the sax part? Or the version from 1990/1991 where he worked on the initial 1984 track again? Or the 1991 re-recording?
I understand this is a tricky thing but this shit on "Originals" is bonkers and just lazily put together without any thought (I doubt the liner notes will have anything of worth on this issue...)
Adding tracks recorded for the version of which he already decided not to release it himself to Prince's version is just wrong...
Now we're just prone to an interpretation of whomever has access to the tracks instead of a proper document/time capsule of person who created it...
They should just leave everything as is and stop fucking around with them, the only person who had the right to play with these tracks isn't around anymore...

Neversin.

yeahthat

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #199 posted 06/10/19 7:21am

databank

Kares said:

Neversin said:


The songs on "Originals" weren't for release and had a clear purpose...
In the case of "Make Up" it's quite obvious that he only made a vocal guide for Susan Moonsie to mimic and left it as that, there was no purpose other than that for that particular track...

If Prince wanted to "finish" some of these tracks he would have; let's take "Nothing Compares 2 U" for example in 1990/1991 he picked up the version of the track from before Paul did his vocals then put in Clare's parts, left off Eric Leeds' sax and Susannahs vocals and added new things only to start from scratch and re-record the song entirely some months later...
Now what is considered Prince's final version of that song? The 1984 version before Eric Leeds did his part or after the sax part? Or the version from 1990/1991 where he worked on the initial 1984 track again? Or the 1991 re-recording?
I understand this is a tricky thing but this shit on "Originals" is bonkers and just lazily put together without any thought (I doubt the liner notes will have anything of worth on this issue...)
Adding tracks recorded for the version of which he already decided not to release it himself to Prince's version is just wrong...
Now we're just prone to an interpretation of whomever has access to the tracks instead of a proper document/time capsule of person who created it...
They should just leave everything as is and stop fucking around with them, the only person who had the right to play with these tracks isn't around anymore...

Neversin.

.
I hear you, and trust me, I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you on these things and even though I do enjoy listening to these tracks now, I am just as pissed/disappointed about his legacy being in the wrong hands and the apparent lack of knowledge, care and respect behind the posthumous releases.
.

My only point regarding 'Make-Up' was: in my opinion it is wrong to release a raw (dry) mix when we do have a fairly good idea of how he liked that song to sound as he already released it on 'Vanity 6'. So if it was left up to me I would've recreated the sound of the Vanity 6 mix, with those same effects, with Prince's vocals, instead of leaving it dry and lacking the same punch that the V6 version has. And of course I would've kept the drum intro too...

.
Of course it's far more complicated to decide what could've been a final version when there are multiple recordings of the same song, for a single-disc release such as 'Originals' I'd just go for the best or most significant, completed verision – but the key is clearly communicating the reasons behind such decisions, and of course eventually I'd put almost everything out on several box sets for the real collectors.
.

I beg to disagree. This is not about "how Prince liked the song" but about "how the song was on any given day" before it was finished. Prince wanted the song with effects and with Susan on lead vocals, that's the only way he wanted it as far as we can tell. But then if we are to release an earlier version with his vocals, we are not to mess with it by adding effects to try and make it sound like the V6 version. This is basically what they (poorly) attempted with NC2U: let's try and have the Family version as such only with P's vocals instead. Yeah, except then the mix was different on the first Family version, and anyway Prince scrapped it and turned it into the minimalist version that was released instead, so the Frankenstein version does not reflect what Prince wanted to be heard at any stage (and anyway what he wanted to be heard was the Family version as released, with Paul on lead vocals, not him).

The only case that could be hard to solve is the case where you have a multitrack but no cassette mixdown as reference at all, and this may be the case with some tracks. Then how can you be sure how Prince would have mixed it and whether he would have kept all the tracks or added effects and so on, and then it's up to everyone's guess. But Prince apparently had mixdowns made all the time so hopefully this won't happen to often.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #200 posted 06/10/19 7:29am

Neversin

Kares said:

Neversin said:


The songs on "Originals" weren't for release and had a clear purpose...
In the case of "Make Up" it's quite obvious that he only made a vocal guide for Susan Moonsie to mimic and left it as that, there was no purpose other than that for that particular track...

If Prince wanted to "finish" some of these tracks he would have; let's take "Nothing Compares 2 U" for example in 1990/1991 he picked up the version of the track from before Paul did his vocals then put in Clare's parts, left off Eric Leeds' sax and Susannahs vocals and added new things only to start from scratch and re-record the song entirely some months later...
Now what is considered Prince's final version of that song? The 1984 version before Eric Leeds did his part or after the sax part? Or the version from 1990/1991 where he worked on the initial 1984 track again? Or the 1991 re-recording?
I understand this is a tricky thing but this shit on "Originals" is bonkers and just lazily put together without any thought (I doubt the liner notes will have anything of worth on this issue...)
Adding tracks recorded for the version of which he already decided not to release it himself to Prince's version is just wrong...
Now we're just prone to an interpretation of whomever has access to the tracks instead of a proper document/time capsule of person who created it...
They should just leave everything as is and stop fucking around with them, the only person who had the right to play with these tracks isn't around anymore...

Neversin.

.
I hear you, and trust me, I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you on these things and even though I do enjoy listening to these tracks now, I am just as pissed/disappointed about his legacy being in the wrong hands and the apparent lack of knowledge, care and respect behind the posthumous releases.
.

My only point regarding 'Make-Up' was: in my opinion it is wrong to release a raw (dry) mix when we do have a fairly good idea of how he liked that song to sound as he already released it on 'Vanity 6'. So if it was left up to me I would've recreated the sound of the Vanity 6 mix, with those same effects, with Prince's vocals, instead of leaving it dry and lacking the same punch that the V6 version has. And of course I would've kept the drum intro too...

.
Of course it's far more complicated to decide what could've been a final version when there are multiple recordings of the same song, for a single-disc release such as 'Originals' I'd just go for the best or most significant, completed verision – but the key is clearly communicating the reasons behind such decisions, and of course eventually I'd put almost everything out on several box sets for the real collectors.
.


I honestly think they just released what they could find on a whim instead of (re)searching further, because I seriously doubt they listened closely to "Manic Monday" or else they would have realized that the tape they found was probably a dub Prince could listen to check if the background vocals were good enough before working further on the song the next day...
So they found that version and put it out as Prince's "Original" version, when the real original version with his background vocals is still in there in his vault...

I truly hope when they're done sorting everything they'll do proper chronological archival releases for fans with the help of fans...
But I dread that poorly curated and researched album like "Originals" is what we'll be getting for the rest of our days, and all because they allowed to let some incompentent WB lackey who volunteered(!) to do the job do a job that should be left to multiple "Prince" experts...
Considering the posthumous releases it's obvious the guy is in way over his head and just not capable enough to do the job properly...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #201 posted 06/10/19 7:32am

databank

Neversin said:

Kares said:

.
I hear you, and trust me, I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you on these things and even though I do enjoy listening to these tracks now, I am just as pissed/disappointed about his legacy being in the wrong hands and the apparent lack of knowledge, care and respect behind the posthumous releases.
.

My only point regarding 'Make-Up' was: in my opinion it is wrong to release a raw (dry) mix when we do have a fairly good idea of how he liked that song to sound as he already released it on 'Vanity 6'. So if it was left up to me I would've recreated the sound of the Vanity 6 mix, with those same effects, with Prince's vocals, instead of leaving it dry and lacking the same punch that the V6 version has. And of course I would've kept the drum intro too...

.
Of course it's far more complicated to decide what could've been a final version when there are multiple recordings of the same song, for a single-disc release such as 'Originals' I'd just go for the best or most significant, completed verision – but the key is clearly communicating the reasons behind such decisions, and of course eventually I'd put almost everything out on several box sets for the real collectors.
.


I honestly think they just released what they could find on a whim instead of (re)searching further, because I seriously doubt they listened closely to "Manic Monday" or else they would have realized that the tape they found was probably a dub Prince could listen to check if the background vocals were good enough before working further on the song the next day...
So they found that version and put it out as Prince's "Original" version, when the real original version with his background vocals is still in there in his vault...

I truly hope when they're done sorting everything they'll do proper chronological archival releases for fans with the help of fans...
But I dread that poorly curated and researched album like "Originals" is what we'll be getting for the rest of our days, and all because they allowed to let some incompentent WB lackey who volunteered(!) to do the job do a job that should be left to multiple "Prince" experts...
Considering the posthumous releases it's obvious the guy is in way over his head and just not capable enough to do the job properly...

Neversin.

That, or they purposedly did a Frenkenstein mix because they thought it was more radio-friendly with female background vocals neutral

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #202 posted 06/10/19 7:33am

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Thanks, Neversin.
A few additional things though: there are speed-issues too (again), especially with 'Sex Shooter' and 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me'. The former is below, the latter is above normal pitch, but some others aren't 100% spot on either.

.

Thanks for your expertise, the info you bring is also really useful hug

BTW I always meant to ask you: how do you know the pitch on P&AM83 is wrong? I mean I beleive you, I just wonder how you can tell without another version to ompare it with?

.

(Thanks for all you're brining to the table too!)
.
Just to be precise, it's both the pitch and tempo we're talking about as they are naturally linked (and can only be independently manipulated in the digital domain). In short: I can hear it. In the case of P&AM83 the difference is about 16-18 cents (if I remember correctly, I can't check it now) and that is quite noticeable, especially if you're listening to it right after some other piece of music that's in the correct key, or if you try to play along on a (well tuned or digital) piano. You don't have to have the same music in the right key as a reference to compare it to, practically all modern (Western) music uses the same 12 notes and most musicians and studios tune to the same A=440Hz reference. Prince did too, as almost everything he released proves.
.
I know some musicians who prefer to tune to 442 or 443 or 436 or 432 and other references, but those are exceptions and can be a pain to work with, especially when two pianists work in the same studio and one day the piano has to be tuned to 442 and the next day it has to be retuned for the other guy to 443 and the next day back to 440 for someone else etc.... These are real examples.
.
There's no information that I'm aware of that would claim that Prince had his piano tuned to 445 on the day he recorded P&AM so I think we can safely rule that out.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #203 posted 06/10/19 7:37am

dodger

jaawwnn said:

Neversin said:


11. Gigolo's Get Lonely Too - Faded out unnecessarily, which could have been an epic release if they let it go for the full 10+ minutes...


GODDAM.

GODDAM x 2.

I've got that on repeat, I'd love the 10 min version..

[Edited 6/10/19 7:39am]

Reply #204 posted 06/10/19 7:39am

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

Thanks for your expertise, the info you bring is also really useful hug

BTW I always meant to ask you: how do you know the pitch on P&AM83 is wrong? I mean I beleive you, I just wonder how you can tell without another version to ompare it with?

.

(Thanks for all you're brining to the table too!)
.
Just to be precise, it's both the pitch and tempo we're talking about as they are naturally linked (and can only be independently manipulated in the digital domain). In short: I can hear it. In the case of P&AM83 the difference is about 16-18 cents (if I remember correctly, I can't check it now) and that is quite noticeable, especially if you're listening to it right after some other piece of music that's in the correct key, or if you try to play along on a (well tuned or digital) piano. You don't have to have the same music in the right key as a reference to compare it to, practically all modern (Western) music uses the same 12 notes and most musicians and studios tune to the same A=440Hz reference. Prince did too, as almost everything he released proves.
.
I know some musicians who prefer to tune to 442 or 443 or 436 or 432 and other references, but those are exceptions and can be a pain to work with, especially when two pianists work in the same studio and one day the piano has to be tuned to 442 and the next day it has to be retuned for the other guy to 443 and the next day back to 440 for someone else etc.... These are real examples.
.
There's no information that I'm aware of that would claim that Prince had his piano tuned to 445 on the day he recorded P&AM so I think we can safely rule that out.
.

Cool, thanks for explaining hug

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #205 posted 06/10/19 7:44am

TylerTheDebater

When I heard "Wouldn't You Love To Love Me", my jaw hit the floor. I wasn't expecting that good "Dirty Mind" energy out of that song!

Really, really good collection, and what I want to see going forward from Prince releases. The world should really know why he was such a big deal! It's more than just Purple Rain. In the context of "here's what he did for other people you may know", this is HUGE. those in charge of curating these tracks did a really, really good job in my opinion.

Reply #206 posted 06/10/19 7:46am

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.
I hear you, and trust me, I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you on these things and even though I do enjoy listening to these tracks now, I am just as pissed/disappointed about his legacy being in the wrong hands and the apparent lack of knowledge, care and respect behind the posthumous releases.
.

My only point regarding 'Make-Up' was: in my opinion it is wrong to release a raw (dry) mix when we do have a fairly good idea of how he liked that song to sound as he already released it on 'Vanity 6'. So if it was left up to me I would've recreated the sound of the Vanity 6 mix, with those same effects, with Prince's vocals, instead of leaving it dry and lacking the same punch that the V6 version has. And of course I would've kept the drum intro too...

.
Of course it's far more complicated to decide what could've been a final version when there are multiple recordings of the same song, for a single-disc release such as 'Originals' I'd just go for the best or most significant, completed verision – but the key is clearly communicating the reasons behind such decisions, and of course eventually I'd put almost everything out on several box sets for the real collectors.
.

I beg to disagree. This is not about "how Prince liked the song" but about "how the song was on any given day" before it was finished. Prince wanted the song with effects and with Susan on lead vocals, that's the only way he wanted it as far as we can tell. But then if we are to release an earlier version with his vocals, we are not to mess with it by adding effects to try and make it sound like the V6 version. This is basically what they (poorly) attempted with NC2U: let's try and have the Family version as such only with P's vocals instead. Yeah, except then the mix was different on the first Family version, and anyway Prince scrapped it and turned it into the minimalist version that was released instead, so the Frankenstein version does not reflect what Prince wanted to be heard at any stage (and anyway what he wanted to be heard was the Family version as released, with Paul on lead vocals, not him).

The only case that could be hard to solve is the case where you have a multitrack but no cassette mixdown as reference at all, and this may be the case with some tracks. Then how can you be sure how Prince would have mixed it and whether he would have kept all the tracks or added effects and so on, and then it's up to everyone's guess. But Prince apparently had mixdowns made all the time so hopefully this won't happen to often.

.

It's not the same case as of NC2U. That was unethical. But when we have a song such as 'Make-Up', which has been released, only with female vocals, and we have another tape of EXACTLY the same song, only with Prince's vocals, I would indeed have recreated the V6 mix for the Prince vocal version too. Because in my opinion it is fairly safe to say that that is the sound / mix Prince wanted for that song, regardless of which vocal tracks he'd release.
In the pop music world, releasing a completely dry mix is almost unheard of, or at least it's very, VERY rarely ever done. And when we do have a reference mix OF THE SAME recording (albeit with a different vocal track), I don't think it's unethical to match that.
.
I'd be very interested to hear what Peggy M or Susan R would say on this but I have a feeling they would agree with me.
.
What I certainly don't agree with, and that's where I'm with both you and Neversin, is mixing up different sessions, making edits, etc – and on top of all this: not being clear about all this.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #207 posted 06/10/19 7:48am

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

I beg to disagree. This is not about "how Prince liked the song" but about "how the song was on any given day" before it was finished. Prince wanted the song with effects and with Susan on lead vocals, that's the only way he wanted it as far as we can tell. But then if we are to release an earlier version with his vocals, we are not to mess with it by adding effects to try and make it sound like the V6 version. This is basically what they (poorly) attempted with NC2U: let's try and have the Family version as such only with P's vocals instead. Yeah, except then the mix was different on the first Family version, and anyway Prince scrapped it and turned it into the minimalist version that was released instead, so the Frankenstein version does not reflect what Prince wanted to be heard at any stage (and anyway what he wanted to be heard was the Family version as released, with Paul on lead vocals, not him).

The only case that could be hard to solve is the case where you have a multitrack but no cassette mixdown as reference at all, and this may be the case with some tracks. Then how can you be sure how Prince would have mixed it and whether he would have kept all the tracks or added effects and so on, and then it's up to everyone's guess. But Prince apparently had mixdowns made all the time so hopefully this won't happen to often.

.

It's not the same case as of NC2U. That was unethical. But when we have a song such as 'Make-Up', which has been released, only with female vocals, and we have another tape of EXACTLY the same song, only with Prince's vocals, I would indeed have recreated the V6 mix for the Prince vocal version too. Because in my opinion it is fairly safe to say that that is the sound / mix Prince wanted for that song, regardless of which vocal tracks he'd release.
In the pop music world, releasing a completely dry mix is almost unheard of, or at least it's very, VERY rarely ever done. And when we do have a reference mix OF THE SAME recording (albeit with a different vocal track), I don't think it's unethical to match that.
.
I'd be very interested to hear what Peggy M or Susan R would say on this but I have a feeling they would agree with me.
.
What I certainly don't agree with, and that's where I'm with both you and Neversin, is mixing up different sessions, making edits, etc – and on top of all this: not being clear about all this.
.

Fair enough. What I meant is that is there exists a reference mixdown on cassette from that Prince version (and it probably exists), and it does not have the effects, then I don't believe it makes sense to have them. On that particular day, he had not.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #208 posted 06/10/19 7:54am

darkroman

I've been thoroughly enjoying this compilation!

A few songs are epic and a couple of others will take a little while longer for me to love.

I appreciate many people are 'concerned' these are not final versions, but for me, as long as these are Prince's genuine work-in-progress versions then that certainly earns the title 'Originals'. Maybe this is better than to have Prince's final 'polished' versions as this does show these songs in their 'original' form as they develop.

I'm not sure why Manic Monday is refered to as "Frankenstein''. If the Estate had done this, then that would be very wrong. If Prince did this while experimenting with the track then I accept this as Prince's work.

Eitherway, I feel I have no choice but to except what is on Originals in the form it is in as I have no influence over this otherwise - so I'll just have to be happy with how it is.

cool








Reply #209 posted 06/10/19 7:59am

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.

It's not the same case as of NC2U. That was unethical. But when we have a song such as 'Make-Up', which has been released, only with female vocals, and we have another tape of EXACTLY the same song, only with Prince's vocals, I would indeed have recreated the V6 mix for the Prince vocal version too. Because in my opinion it is fairly safe to say that that is the sound / mix Prince wanted for that song, regardless of which vocal tracks he'd release.
In the pop music world, releasing a completely dry mix is almost unheard of, or at least it's very, VERY rarely ever done. And when we do have a reference mix OF THE SAME recording (albeit with a different vocal track), I don't think it's unethical to match that.
.
I'd be very interested to hear what Peggy M or Susan R would say on this but I have a feeling they would agree with me.
.
What I certainly don't agree with, and that's where I'm with both you and Neversin, is mixing up different sessions, making edits, etc – and on top of all this: not being clear about all this.
.

Fair enough. What I meant is that is there exists a reference mixdown on cassette from that Prince version (and it probably exists), and it does not have the effects, then I don't believe it makes sense to have them. On that particular day, he had not.

.
But we know he had raw mixes made all the time, I can imagine that often the tapes he gave to band members were raw mixes too as generally it is easier to hear the different instrument parts on a dry mix than it is after the effects have been applied. So in my view the existence of a raw mixdown is in no way proof for him preferring that dry mix even just on that particular day, it's simply just how he worked, he worked incredibly fast and often wanted to have a copy immediately after finishing tracking, therefore he didn't want to wait around until a proper mix (with effects) is finished.

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #210 posted 06/10/19 8:06am

TheEnglishGent

Kares said:

databank said:

Thanks for your expertise, the info you bring is also really useful hug

BTW I always meant to ask you: how do you know the pitch on P&AM83 is wrong? I mean I beleive you, I just wonder how you can tell without another version to ompare it with?

.

(Thanks for all you're brining to the table too!)
.
Just to be precise, it's both the pitch and tempo we're talking about as they are naturally linked (and can only be independently manipulated in the digital domain). In short: I can hear it. In the case of P&AM83 the difference is about 16-18 cents (if I remember correctly, I can't check it now) and that is quite noticeable, especially if you're listening to it right after some other piece of music that's in the correct key, or if you try to play along on a (well tuned or digital) piano. You don't have to have the same music in the right key as a reference to compare it to, practically all modern (Western) music uses the same 12 notes and most musicians and studios tune to the same A=440Hz reference. Prince did too, as almost everything he released proves.
.
I know some musicians who prefer to tune to 442 or 443 or 436 or 432 and other references, but those are exceptions and can be a pain to work with, especially when two pianists work in the same studio and one day the piano has to be tuned to 442 and the next day it has to be retuned for the other guy to 443 and the next day back to 440 for someone else etc.... These are real examples.
.
There's no information that I'm aware of that would claim that Prince had his piano tuned to 445 on the day he recorded P&AM so I think we can safely rule that out.
.


Could the speed/pitch problem just be down to the tape player which this session was recorded to?

RIP sad
Reply #211 posted 06/10/19 8:09am

TheEnglishGent

Neversin said:

So people will stop orgnoting and mailing:


I did, and am still doing, a comparison of my (fully logged and researched) versions and "Originals" and this is what I concluded for now, enjoy:

This list is not definite and take it FWIW... I'll probably update it when other versions are found so this is by no means a static end-all-be-all conclusion...

But to me this proves that Howe and all the others at Paisley Park are ignorant about his recordings and their bullshit claim of not ever releasing his unfinished material, which they just did... So they could easily just release "Black Is The New Black" as is, warts and all...



1. Sex Shooter - is faded out unnecessarily since the full on "Prince" guide version (which this version is) is just a couple of minutes longer and could have fit easily on the CD; vinyl on the other hand...
Probably why they faded it out, because of some shitty medium for dumb Millennial hipsters who don't even know anything about mastering and parrot the retarded "vinyl sounds warmer" mantra... MASTERING - MEDIUM...

2. Jungle Love - is, for now, the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this is seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

3. Manic Monday - "Frankenstein" hybrid of added background vocals recorded for the Apollonia 6 version, so this is an already "work-in-progress" unfinished version... They should have released the final full version with Prince's background vocals before he embarked on working on it for Apollonia 6...

4. Noon Rendezvous - The version on "Originals" seems to just be his piano and vocals take, so another "half" release of the song... His full version is the version of Sheila E. with this vocal and piano take and some bass lines removed from the Sheila E. version...

5. Make Up - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

6. 100 MPH - An edited mess, no clue why they (or maybe even Prince himself?) cut up this song other than that the tape was damaged... The full on version of this exact version is slightly longer with the full intro and would have fit easily on the CD...

7. You're My Love - This is an unnecessarily faded out version of the exact version that was sent to Clare Fisher; he recorded his orchestra and cheesed it up (IMO) and that version was sent to Kenny Rogers... So this is a faded out version of Prince's final version...

8. Holly Rock - This is a mess, too much to list...

9. Baby, You're A Trip - Jill Jones' backing vocal were recorded after Prince's final version (the version that is on bootlegs without Jill) which he considered for one of his own albums... So another "work-in-progress" unfinished version...

10. The Glamorous Life - Heavily edited from the full version and faded out unnecessarily...

11. Gigolo's Get Lonely Too - Faded out unnecessarily, which could have been an epic release if they let it go for the full 10+ minutes...

12. Love.. Thy Will B Done - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too is a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...
I think the guitar track was added after Martika did her takes...

13. Dear Michaelangelo - Another "work-in-progress" version... Prince's final full version has a synth playing Eddie M.'s sax lines...

14. Wouldn't You Love To Love Me? - The (unecessarily) faded out 1981/1982 original (not counting his 1976 home studio recorded version...) now the CD would become filled over the rim, so an understandable fade out since it's the most uninteresting... I fully expected the 1987 Michael Jackson/Taja Seville version to be on this disk, not the 1981/1982 version...

15. Nothing Compares 2 U - Discussed ad nauseum, ask Databank for the details I provided him when the 7" dropped last year...

Neversin.

[Edited 6/10/19 3:27am]


Thanks for not quitting this thread, this is all really intersting. I'd love to see if M Howe, or anyone else involved would respond to this. Is it ignorance, errors, not fully curating everything yet, or that this stuff just doesn't exist in the vault as Prince left it?

RIP sad
Reply #212 posted 06/10/19 8:12am

Bishop31

I find it sad and troubling that fans in our community are far more knowledgeble about Prince's recordings than the people releasing his music. I'm curious if this is common with other artists. But, for an artist as important as Prince, everything about his current team feels amateur.

Reply #213 posted 06/10/19 8:13am

Kares

TheEnglishGent said:

Kares said:

.

(Thanks for all you're brining to the table too!)
.
Just to be precise, it's both the pitch and tempo we're talking about as they are naturally linked (and can only be independently manipulated in the digital domain). In short: I can hear it. In the case of P&AM83 the difference is about 16-18 cents (if I remember correctly, I can't check it now) and that is quite noticeable, especially if you're listening to it right after some other piece of music that's in the correct key, or if you try to play along on a (well tuned or digital) piano. You don't have to have the same music in the right key as a reference to compare it to, practically all modern (Western) music uses the same 12 notes and most musicians and studios tune to the same A=440Hz reference. Prince did too, as almost everything he released proves.
.
I know some musicians who prefer to tune to 442 or 443 or 436 or 432 and other references, but those are exceptions and can be a pain to work with, especially when two pianists work in the same studio and one day the piano has to be tuned to 442 and the next day it has to be retuned for the other guy to 443 and the next day back to 440 for someone else etc.... These are real examples.
.
There's no information that I'm aware of that would claim that Prince had his piano tuned to 445 on the day he recorded P&AM so I think we can safely rule that out.
.


Could the speed/pitch problem just be down to the tape player which this session was recorded to?

.
It is due to that indeed. He taped it on a machine (probably some cheap, consumer tape recorder) that wasn't properly calibrated. Now as long as you play back the tape on the same machine, the recording is fine of course. The problem starts when you put it into a different machine, which is what happened here, obviously. Mr Howe & Co. obviously transferred this tape to computer using a properly calibrated professional cassette recorder. Which resulted in playing it back slightly faster (and higher in pitch) than Prince's old recorder would've played it. It is something they should've noticed and corrected, as this would NOT have been manipulation, it would've been a simple case of eliminating a technical glitch.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #214 posted 06/10/19 8:20am

billymeade

databank said:

billymeade said:

Listening to Originals had me thinking... where's Sheila? Every article has interviews with Jill, Appolonia, Susannah... but Sheila, whose songs make up a big chunk of the album, seems to be completely missing from the press around this.

IDK about that but someone complained earlier that Sheila got author's credit on some of her songs on Tidal. Noon Rendezvous is copyrighted as a Prince/Sheila E composition (and probably is). Holly Rock and everything on Romance 1600 are copyrighted as pure Sheila compositions (save Love Bizarre which is Prince/Sheila), while research revealed that she, in fact, didn't write any of the material. Sheila herself inadvertedly explained why Prince was so generous in her Redbull Academy interview, where she says that she didn't pay attention to her exenses during the PR Tour and was suddenly presented a bill of 100 thousand dollars or so, and panicked. No wonder, then, than Prince gave her his royalties: she was in dire need of money in 1985.

.

Seems only Jill, Appolonia, and Susannah keep getting quoted. Then again, they were probably the ones at the press events; Sheila's touring.

Reply #215 posted 06/10/19 8:24am

TheEnglishGent

Kares said:

TheEnglishGent said:


Could the speed/pitch problem just be down to the tape player which this session was recorded to?

.
It is due to that indeed. He taped it on a machine (probably some cheap, consumer tape recorder) that wasn't properly calibrated. Now as long as you play back the tape on the same machine, the recording is fine of course. The problem starts when you put it into a different machine, which is what happened here, obviously. Mr Howe & Co. obviously transferred this tape to computer using a properly calibrated professional cassette recorder. Which resulted in playing it back slightly faster (and higher in pitch) than Prince's old recorder would've played it. It is something they should've noticed and corrected, as this would NOT have been manipulation, it would've been a simple case of eliminating a technical glitch.
.

Thanks, that makes perfect sense.

RIP sad
Reply #216 posted 06/10/19 8:55am

Revolution81

billymeade said:

databank said:

IDK about that but someone complained earlier that Sheila got author's credit on some of her songs on Tidal. Noon Rendezvous is copyrighted as a Prince/Sheila E composition (and probably is). Holly Rock and everything on Romance 1600 are copyrighted as pure Sheila compositions (save Love Bizarre which is Prince/Sheila), while research revealed that she, in fact, didn't write any of the material. Sheila herself inadvertedly explained why Prince was so generous in her Redbull Academy interview, where she says that she didn't pay attention to her exenses during the PR Tour and was suddenly presented a bill of 100 thousand dollars or so, and panicked. No wonder, then, than Prince gave her his royalties: she was in dire need of money in 1985.

.

Seems only Jill, Appolonia, and Susannah keep getting quoted. Then again, they were probably the ones at the press events; Sheila's touring.

Jill, Susannah and Appolonia all have backing vocals on various tracks on Originals, how many of the demos for Sheilas songs have her vocals? hmm

My fathers got a shotgun...I hope he doesn't use it
Reply #217 posted 06/10/19 9:05am

Kares

databank said:

billymeade said:

Listening to Originals had me thinking... where's Sheila? Every article has interviews with Jill, Appolonia, Susannah... but Sheila, whose songs make up a big chunk of the album, seems to be completely missing from the press around this.

IDK about that but someone complained earlier that Sheila got author's credit on some of her songs on Tidal. Noon Rendezvous is copyrighted as a Prince/Sheila E composition (and probably is). Holly Rock and everything on Romance 1600 are copyrighted as pure Sheila compositions (save Love Bizarre which is Prince/Sheila), while research revealed that she, in fact, didn't write any of the material. Sheila herself inadvertedly explained why Prince was so generous in her Redbull Academy interview, where she says that she didn't pay attention to her exenses during the PR Tour and was suddenly presented a bill of 100 thousand dollars or so, and panicked. No wonder, then, than Prince gave her his royalties: she was in dire need of money in 1985.

.
Thanks for mentioning this, I never really thought of that this way (that Sheila getting so many writing credits were in large part, compensation for her losses on the PR tour), but makes sense – and it paints a very different picture of Prince than just the first part of the story (of Prince ripping Sheila off by charging her for everything on the PR Tour). In retrospect, it seems like a pretty generous compensation, especially when you consider that perhaps Sheila (having been a professional musician longer than Prince) could've been far less naive about who's going to pay for her tour-related expenses.

.

[Edited 6/10/19 9:07am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #218 posted 06/10/19 9:12am

OnlyNDaUsa

Speaking of the credits on Tidal.. there are several errors on some of the tracks... example on P&M 83 it says Prince wrote "A Case of You" (But it is correct on the One Night Alone...)

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #219 posted 06/10/19 9:14am

Kares

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Speaking of the credits on Tidal.. there are several errors on some of the tracks... example on P&M 83 it says Prince wrote "A Case of You" (But it is correct on the One Night Alone...)

.
Yep. For 'Love... Thy Will Be Done' they say it was written by Morris Day and Jesse Johnson...

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #220 posted 06/10/19 9:34am

love2thenines2003

With all these negative points about some trax on Originals.....what can we expect about he future release of 1999 Deluxe ( 1st in term of unreleased material available?) strongly rumoured later this year ?

[Edited 6/10/19 10:25am]

Reply #221 posted 06/10/19 10:00am

TrevorAyer

one obstacle to recreating the effects may be that they don't exist anymore .. prince couldn't get camille right or his linn drum in later years .. he used to add a lot of analog and experimental sounds to his music .. running through guitar pedals and things not meant for what he was doing .. one of the reasons he was such an innovator .. but at whatever point even prince couldn't get "that sound" anymore .. modern equipment just wont cut it

its no wonder that prince fans have more knowledge than prince family or record companies etc .. nobody there has been obsessing over prince like some of the people here .. they are more focussed on viable product .. not so much preserving some old crusty demo with hiss and a wierd mix ..

the mastering on this disk is prettty bad tho as usual .. its got that overblown screwdriver on hit n run feel to it .. this whole louder louder louder mastering thing is really gonna keep ruining a lot of music that does not derserve such stupidity ... another choice motivated by ability to sell in the current market

Reply #222 posted 06/10/19 10:02am

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

Fair enough. What I meant is that is there exists a reference mixdown on cassette from that Prince version (and it probably exists), and it does not have the effects, then I don't believe it makes sense to have them. On that particular day, he had not.

.
But we know he had raw mixes made all the time, I can imagine that often the tapes he gave to band members were raw mixes too as generally it is easier to hear the different instrument parts on a dry mix than it is after the effects have been applied. So in my view the existence of a raw mixdown is in no way proof for him preferring that dry mix even just on that particular day, it's simply just how he worked, he worked incredibly fast and often wanted to have a copy immediately after finishing tracking, therefore he didn't want to wait around until a proper mix (with effects) is finished.

.

OK, I see your point and maybe I'm a bit of a purist. It's really not about what Prince preferred in my case, more because I want the thing as it was, but I guess your point is that even if we don't find a rough mixdown in the vault, which probably will happen sooner or later for some tracks, the engineers would then have to make the best of the multitrack to make a mix that tries to represent the kind of mixes liked at the time, effects included, but that it represents more of a technical intervention than a real artistic interference, and that it's therefore OK to do it with any track as long as you don't mess up with content?

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #223 posted 06/10/19 10:38am

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.
But we know he had raw mixes made all the time, I can imagine that often the tapes he gave to band members were raw mixes too as generally it is easier to hear the different instrument parts on a dry mix than it is after the effects have been applied. So in my view the existence of a raw mixdown is in no way proof for him preferring that dry mix even just on that particular day, it's simply just how he worked, he worked incredibly fast and often wanted to have a copy immediately after finishing tracking, therefore he didn't want to wait around until a proper mix (with effects) is finished.

.

OK, I see your point and maybe I'm a bit of a purist. It's really not about what Prince preferred in my case, more because I want the thing as it was, but I guess your point is that even if we don't find a rough mixdown in the vault, which probably will happen sooner or later for some tracks, the engineers would then have to make the best of the multitrack to make a mix that tries to represent the kind of mixes liked at the time, effects included, but that it represents more of a technical intervention than a real artistic interference, and that it's therefore OK to do it with any track as long as you don't mess up with content?

.

Let me put it this way: the process of mixing pop music is, in my opinion, comparable to cooking a meal. What you have on the multitrack tape are the raw ingredients, and when you simply push up all the faders on the desk to do a quick, raw mix, you are just throwing all the ingredients into the cooking pan. Everything's there, it might even taste good already, but seasoning it with effects and cooking it will bring out flavours that the raw ingredients can't provide and it will make the whole mix work as a cohesive unit that can be more than the sum of its parts.
.
So while it is an "artistic interference" as it's clearly not just a technical but a creative process, it is, in most cases, necessary, as that's how records are made.
Of course I would hate to have people brought in to remix and reimagine Prince's music UNLESS it is a totally separate, additional and creative project such as Bill Laswell's remix albums made using Bob Marley and Miles Davis multitracks. Those are excellent but they were marketed as Bill Laswell's creative work.
But I certainly would welcome the engineers who actually worked with Prince to be brought in to mix material in a way that Prince would've liked and approved. We will never be able to be 100% sure about such things, but if it's a track recorded by (let's say) Susan Rogers, I think asking her to mix it now would result in something that is far closer to what Prince would've done than the raw, dry mixes would be. Ideally though, I would release both smile But sadly, that won't happen.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #224 posted 06/10/19 10:51am

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

OK, I see your point and maybe I'm a bit of a purist. It's really not about what Prince preferred in my case, more because I want the thing as it was, but I guess your point is that even if we don't find a rough mixdown in the vault, which probably will happen sooner or later for some tracks, the engineers would then have to make the best of the multitrack to make a mix that tries to represent the kind of mixes liked at the time, effects included, but that it represents more of a technical intervention than a real artistic interference, and that it's therefore OK to do it with any track as long as you don't mess up with content?

.

Let me put it this way: the process of mixing pop music is, in my opinion, comparable to cooking a meal. What you have on the multitrack tape are the raw ingredients, and when you simply push up all the faders on the desk to do a quick, raw mix, you are just throwing all the ingredients into the cooking pan. Everything's there, it might even taste good already, but seasoning it with effects and cooking it will bring out flavours that the raw ingredients can't provide and it will make the whole mix work as a cohesive unit that can be more than the sum of its parts.
.
So while it is an "artistic interference" as it's clearly not just a technical but a creative process, it is, in most cases, necessary, as that's how records are made. Fair enough. I read ya.
Of course I would hate to have people brought in to remix and reimagine Prince's music UNLESS it is a totally separate, additional and creative project such as Bill Laswell's remix albums made using Bob Marley and Miles Davis multitracks. Those are excellent but they were marketed as Bill Laswell's creative work. Yes, in that case it was clear and interesting. He did a Santana one, too, but I guess you know that already.
But I certainly would welcome the engineers who actually worked with Prince to be brought in to mix material in a way that Prince would've liked and approved. That would be a must, and would need to be done while everyone's alive. We will never be able to be 100% sure about such things, but if it's a track recorded by (let's say) Susan Rogers, I think asking her to mix it now would result in something that is far closer to what Prince would've done than the raw, dry mixes would be. Ideally though, I would release both smile Yeah, me too. But sadly, that won't happen. It could on a NPGMC type of site, but not on iTunes, yeah.
.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #225 posted 06/10/19 11:03am

donnyenglish

I think that this release proves that Prince's fans are very savvy. I think that we are overall pleased with this release. I also think that there is some legitimate constructive criticism and debate about postumhous production and whether the right versions were included in the release. When they release crap, we speak our minds because they must do better to honor his legacy. When they come correct with a release like this, we show our appreciation and also provide insightful feedback for the future. His vault is too important and too vast for them to release half assed stuff. The discussion about this release is really great.

[Edited 6/10/19 11:04am]

Reply #226 posted 06/10/19 11:07am

olb99

databank said:

Kares said:

.
But we know he had raw mixes made all the time, I can imagine that often the tapes he gave to band members were raw mixes too as generally it is easier to hear the different instrument parts on a dry mix than it is after the effects have been applied. So in my view the existence of a raw mixdown is in no way proof for him preferring that dry mix even just on that particular day, it's simply just how he worked, he worked incredibly fast and often wanted to have a copy immediately after finishing tracking, therefore he didn't want to wait around until a proper mix (with effects) is finished.

.

OK, I see your point and maybe I'm a bit of a purist. It's really not about what Prince preferred in my case, more because I want the thing as it was, but I guess your point is that even if we don't find a rough mixdown in the vault, which probably will happen sooner or later for some tracks, the engineers would then have to make the best of the multitrack to make a mix that tries to represent the kind of mixes liked at the time, effects included, but that it represents more of a technical intervention than a real artistic interference, and that it's therefore OK to do it with any track as long as you don't mess up with content?

.

You both have good points. As a fan, I'd like to have both versions. The dry mix for historical/archival reasons. And the mix with effects on the individual tracks, because that's probably what I would listen to the most.

.

Do we have any example of releases for other artists that include multiple mixes of a given track, one dry and the other one with effects?

.

My overall impression is that major record companies just don't care. I have many examples of mixes/remixes full of mistakes in mind (just for Miles Davis, "Bitches Brew", "Agharta", and the 5.1 mix of "Tutu" immediately come to mind). I mean, they can't please everyone and doing extensive archival releases is probably expensive, but it looks like they're not even trying. sad

Reply #227 posted 06/10/19 11:18am

Kares

olb99 said:

databank said:

OK, I see your point and maybe I'm a bit of a purist. It's really not about what Prince preferred in my case, more because I want the thing as it was, but I guess your point is that even if we don't find a rough mixdown in the vault, which probably will happen sooner or later for some tracks, the engineers would then have to make the best of the multitrack to make a mix that tries to represent the kind of mixes liked at the time, effects included, but that it represents more of a technical intervention than a real artistic interference, and that it's therefore OK to do it with any track as long as you don't mess up with content?

.

You both have good points. As a fan, I'd like to have both versions. The dry mix for historical/archival reasons. And the mix with effects on the individual tracks, because that's probably what I would listen to the most.

.

Do we have any example of releases for other artists that include multiple mixes of a given track, one dry and the other one with effects?

.

My overall impression is that major record companies just don't care. I have many examples of mixes/remixes full of mistakes in mind (just for Miles Davis, "Bitches Brew", "Agharta", and the 5.1 mix of "Tutu" immediately come to mind). I mean, they can't please everyone and doing extensive archival releases is probably expensive, but it looks like they're not even trying. sad

.

I can't remember any releases with totally dry mixes as well as completed ones, but I'm sure there are some. Just as there are plenty of deluxe editions with different mixes of the same material.

.
Speaking of Miles: you are absolutely right, there are many mistakes on rereleases, but to be honest, Bitches Brew was such a puzzle (I guess Teo Macero must've used almost half as much splicing tape as audio tape on that one! smile ) it's no surprise 1 or 2 elements were left out of the reconstruction... But sadly mistakes, oversights happen all the time and often labels don't even care. I mean how many decades and how many dozen rereleases it took Columbia to correct the speed of Kind of Blue?... smile
.

[Edited 6/10/19 11:26am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #228 posted 06/10/19 11:30am

databank

Kares said:

olb99 said:

.

You both have good points. As a fan, I'd like to have both versions. The dry mix for historical/archival reasons. And the mix with effects on the individual tracks, because that's probably what I would listen to the most.

.

Do we have any example of releases for other artists that include multiple mixes of a given track, one dry and the other one with effects?

.

My overall impression is that major record companies just don't care. I have many examples of mixes/remixes full of mistakes in mind (just for Miles Davis, "Bitches Brew", "Agharta", and the 5.1 mix of "Tutu" immediately come to mind). I mean, they can't please everyone and doing extensive archival releases is probably expensive, but it looks like they're not even trying. sad

.

I can't remember any releases with totally dry mixes as well as completed ones, but I'm sure there are some. Just as there are plenty of deluxe editions with different mixes of the same material.

.
Speaking of Miles: you are absolutely right, there are many mistakes on rereleases, but to be honest, Bitches Brew was such a puzzle (I guess Teo Macero must've used almost half as much splicing tape as audio tape on that one! smile ) it's no surprise 1 or 2 elements were left out of the reconstruction... But sadly mistakes, oversights happen all the time and often labels don't even care. I mean how many decades and how many dozen rereleases it took Columbia to correct the speed of Kind of Blue?... smile
.

[Edited 6/10/19 11:26am]

And that I wonder, given that even though it was an error the whole world felt in love with KOB the way it was and that's all they had for 30 or 40 years, shouldn't that original still be available, too? I always thought it's funny, I'll never hear it the way they heard it in '59 lol

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #229 posted 06/10/19 11:35am

olb99

Kares said:

olb99 said:

.

Which parts? You can't leave us hanging like that. biggrin

.

Those thick, swirling synth parts (bass, pads and some choir- or strings-type of sounds too) throughout the song. Those are the foundations for the extended parts of Scandalous..

.

And as I'm just listening to the Scandalous Sex Suite again, I'm thinking about how much of Prince's output we took for granted while he was here and how deeply it must've saddened him when a lot of his releases were dismissed – or even ridiculed – by fans and critics alike for being self-indulgent, while he poured his heart into these absolutely stunning works of art. The Scandalous Sex Suite is an incredible masterpiece.

.

[Edited 6/9/19 1:20am]

.

I just listened to the Scandalous Sex Suite again. It's incredible, indeed.

.

About that guitar solo on "The Rapture": it's not the same recording as the guitar track on "Dear Michaelangelo", is it? Maybe I'm tired/deaf. He's definitely playing something similar, hitting the same notes, but it doesn't sound like the same solo (i.e. "Dear Michaelangelo" was an inspiration, but he didn't sample the track).

Reply #230 posted 06/10/19 11:38am

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.

I can't remember any releases with totally dry mixes as well as completed ones, but I'm sure there are some. Just as there are plenty of deluxe editions with different mixes of the same material.

.
Speaking of Miles: you are absolutely right, there are many mistakes on rereleases, but to be honest, Bitches Brew was such a puzzle (I guess Teo Macero must've used almost half as much splicing tape as audio tape on that one! smile ) it's no surprise 1 or 2 elements were left out of the reconstruction... But sadly mistakes, oversights happen all the time and often labels don't even care. I mean how many decades and how many dozen rereleases it took Columbia to correct the speed of Kind of Blue?... smile
.

[Edited 6/10/19 11:26am]

And that I wonder, given that even though it was an error the whole world felt in love with KOB the way it was and that's all they had for 30 or 40 years, shouldn't that original still be available, too? I always thought it's funny, I'll never hear it the way they heard it in '59 lol

.
Just get one of those ancient, horrible Dansette or similar record players from the '50s and play your LP on it. The speed will be hit and miss, but that's how people heard it in '59. smile

[Edited 6/10/19 11:54am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #231 posted 06/10/19 11:42am

Kares

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.

Those thick, swirling synth parts (bass, pads and some choir- or strings-type of sounds too) throughout the song. Those are the foundations for the extended parts of Scandalous..

.

And as I'm just listening to the Scandalous Sex Suite again, I'm thinking about how much of Prince's output we took for granted while he was here and how deeply it must've saddened him when a lot of his releases were dismissed – or even ridiculed – by fans and critics alike for being self-indulgent, while he poured his heart into these absolutely stunning works of art. The Scandalous Sex Suite is an incredible masterpiece.

.

[Edited 6/9/19 1:20am]

.

I just listened to the Scandalous Sex Suite again. It's incredible, indeed.

.

About that guitar solo on "The Rapture": it's not the same recording as the guitar track on "Dear Michaelangelo", is it? Maybe I'm tired/deaf. He's definitely playing something similar, hitting the same notes, but it doesn't sound like the same solo (i.e. "Dear Michaelangelo" was an inspiration, but he didn't sample the track).

.

We don't have the full tape of 'Dear Michaelangelo', I'm afraid. At least I don't. And he's added all sorts of effects to the sound (Octaver, Whammy etc). And perhaps he added new parts to it too.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #232 posted 06/10/19 11:44am

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

And that I wonder, given that even though it was an error the whole world felt in love with KOB the way it was and that's all they had for 30 or 40 years, shouldn't that original still be available, too? I always thought it's funny, I'll never hear it the way they heard it in '59 lol

.
Just get one of those ancient, horrible Dansette or similar record players from the '50s and play your LP on it. The speed will bit a hit and miss, but that's how people heard it in '59. smile

lol lol lol

Fair enough. Though didn't some audiophiles at least have proper hi-fi at all in '59? My parents bought a killer hi-fi for classical music in 1968 IIRC. I still had the speakers when I moved abroad a decade ago and I hope they survived the attic they've been in since, because they sound so great that I'd love to have them again someday nod

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #233 posted 06/10/19 11:49am

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Just get one of those ancient, horrible Dansette or similar record players from the '50s and play your LP on it. The speed will bit a hit and miss, but that's how people heard it in '59. smile

lol lol lol

Fair enough. Though didn't some audiophiles at least have proper hi-fi at all in '59? My parents bought a killer hi-fi for classical music in 1968 IIRC. I still had the speakers when I moved abroad a decade ago and I hope they survived the attic they've been in since, because they sound so great that I'd love to have them again someday nod

.
I would think that it must've been very rare for anyone in '59 to have a decent sound system. Nasty (and often portable) mono turntables with built-in amps and speakers were the norm even in the '60.
.
Hope you'll be able to use your old speakers again but be aware that the cones will probably need re-foaming if they are that old, but it's a fairly simple and safe repair procedure.

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #234 posted 06/10/19 11:59am

Kares

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.

Those thick, swirling synth parts (bass, pads and some choir- or strings-type of sounds too) throughout the song. Those are the foundations for the extended parts of Scandalous..

.

And as I'm just listening to the Scandalous Sex Suite again, I'm thinking about how much of Prince's output we took for granted while he was here and how deeply it must've saddened him when a lot of his releases were dismissed – or even ridiculed – by fans and critics alike for being self-indulgent, while he poured his heart into these absolutely stunning works of art. The Scandalous Sex Suite is an incredible masterpiece.

.

[Edited 6/9/19 1:20am]

.

I just listened to the Scandalous Sex Suite again. It's incredible, indeed.

.

About that guitar solo on "The Rapture": it's not the same recording as the guitar track on "Dear Michaelangelo", is it? Maybe I'm tired/deaf. He's definitely playing something similar, hitting the same notes, but it doesn't sound like the same solo (i.e. "Dear Michaelangelo" was an inspiration, but he didn't sample the track).

.
I just want to say, before the org police comes and clears all my offtopic ramblings that I appreciate your avatar - Aura is such an amazing and underrated album! smile

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #235 posted 06/10/19 12:21pm

AvocadosMax

Sex Shooter — nice to hear his lead voice on this song — 8/10
Jungle Love — Kickass song. 9/10
Manic Monday — classic. Sounds great 9/10
Noon Rendezvous — I don’t get why so many people think this is the greatest song ever. It’s nice to hear his vocals but whatever. 7/10
Make-Up — listening to this as a Prince song while never hearing the Vanity 6 version: WTF lol pretty cool though 7/10
100 MPH — this song kicks. I like it. 7.5/10
You’re My Love — nice to hear him show his range and versatility as a vocalist. Other than that, it’s a generic Prince love slow jam. 6.5/10
Holly Rock — is so cheesy but his voice is just funny lol i like blasting the song but yeah.. pretty corny lyrics and delivery-wise 7/10
Baby, You’re a Trip — you gotta be in the mood for this song. Nice vocals again. 7/10
The Glamorous Life — I can always just listen to the Sheila E. version but....to short! Still 10/10
Gigolos Get Lonely Too — funny song delivered as serious lol 8/10
Love... Thy Will Be Done — atmospheric, nice beat, great lyrics, nice spiritual song. Just missing something that could bring it to a godly level. Maybe a guitar solo? 9/10
Dear Michaelangelo — again WTF. (I know he’s writing it for girls to sing but it’s just funny to hear Prince sing these lines). Music itself is pretty cool. 7/10
Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me? — bad audio. Did they not record it properly or not take care of the master tapes? Hmm. Other than that this is great. Best version of this song for sure. 9.5/10
Nothing Compares 2 U — heard it enough. It’s a hell of a song, but heard this version a billion times already. Still 11/10


Overall: 8/10. As an album...7/10.
Now where’s Black Is The New Black????
Reply #236 posted 06/10/19 12:24pm

Wolfie87

Neversin said:

So people will stop orgnoting and mailing:


I did, and am still doing, a comparison of my (fully logged and researched) versions and "Originals" and this is what I concluded for now, enjoy:

This list is not definite and take it FWIW... I'll probably update it when other versions are found so this is by no means a static end-all-be-all conclusion...

But to me this proves that Howe and all the others at Paisley Park are ignorant about his recordings and their bullshit claim of not ever releasing his unfinished material, which they just did... So they could easily just release "Black Is The New Black" as is, warts and all...




1. Sex Shooter - is faded out unnecessarily since the full on "Prince" guide version (which this version is) is just a couple of minutes longer and could have fit easily on the CD; vinyl on the other hand...
Probably why they faded it out, because of some shitty medium for dumb Millennial hipsters who don't even know anything about mastering and parrot the retarded "vinyl sounds warmer" mantra... MASTERING - MEDIUM...

2. Jungle Love - is, for now, the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this is seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

3. Manic Monday - "Frankenstein" hybrid of added background vocals recorded for the Apollonia 6 version, so this is an already "work-in-progress" unfinished version... They should have released the final full version with Prince's background vocals before he embarked on working on it for Apollonia 6...

4. Noon Rendezvous - The version on "Originals" seems to just be his piano and vocals take, so another "half" release of the song... His full version is the version of Sheila E. with this vocal and piano take and some bass lines removed from the Sheila E. version...

5. Make Up - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too seems to be a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...

6. 100 MPH - An edited mess, no clue why they (or maybe even Prince himself?) cut up this song other than that the tape was damaged... The full on version of this exact version is slightly longer with the full intro and would have fit easily on the CD...

7. You're My Love - This is an unnecessarily faded out version of the exact version that was sent to Clare Fisher; he recorded his orchestra and cheesed it up (IMO) and that version was sent to Kenny Rogers... So this is a faded out version of Prince's final version...

8. Holly Rock - This is a mess, too much to list...

9. Baby, You're A Trip - Jill Jones' backing vocal were recorded after Prince's final version (the version that is on bootlegs without Jill) which he considered for one of his own albums... So another "work-in-progress" unfinished version...

10. The Glamorous Life - Heavily edited from the full version and faded out unnecessarily...

11. Gigolo's Get Lonely Too - Faded out unnecessarily, which could have been an epic release if they let it go for the full 10+ minutes...

12. Love.. Thy Will B Done - is exactly the same that has been going around among archivers for decades, so this too is a proper example of Prince's final version of a song for use by other artists...
I think the guitar track was added after Martika did her takes...

13. Dear Michaelangelo - Another "work-in-progress" version... Prince's final full version has a synth playing Eddie M.'s sax lines...

14. Wouldn't You Love To Love Me? - The (unecessarily) faded out 1981/1982 original (not counting his 1976 home studio recorded version...) now the CD would become filled over the rim, so an understandable fade out since it's the most uninteresting... I fully expected the 1987 Michael Jackson/Taja Seville version to be on this disk, not the 1981/1982 version...

15. Nothing Compares 2 U - Discussed ad nauseum, ask Databank for the details I provided him when the 7" dropped last year...

Neversin.


[Edited 6/10/19 3:27am]



Is the 1981/1982 of WYLTLM a nice surprise on the set? Or are you, like me, disappointed over the missed opportunity with the 1987 version?
Reply #237 posted 06/10/19 1:08pm

stillwaiting

rnb said:

Hopefully, this is just a Tidal error and this mistake is not on the actual physical LP/CD! However, if it is then I could see this being another court entanglement case about folks not getting proper points, credits and everybody wanting to get their piece of that purple pie! [Edited 6/7/19 17:44pm]

Honesty, if anyone believes there is this big Purple Pie with cash in it, I wish I shared their optimism. Originals is a nice release, but it's not gonna move a million units, 500,000, or even 200,000. If they get 50,000, they are lucky. Should Sheila or anyone involved try to sue over anything, it would be a small percentage amount of a small amount, not worth the cost to even pay the lawyer's retainer fee.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #238 posted 06/10/19 1:33pm

leadline

Almost all these tracks seem to have a chorus and reverb effect added to the main vocal track, there is no way Prince had this much echo, or any at all, on his voice for these demos when he recorded them, yet this ehco/reverb/chorus is consistent across 10 years of demos on a singular album of demos. No other unlreleased demos that we have have shared this similiarity.

Kinda ticks me off they took the liberty to do this.

[Edited 6/10/19 13:41pm]

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
Reply #239 posted 06/10/19 1:48pm

FragileUndertow

Neversin said:

So people will stop orgnoting and mailing:


I did, and am still doing, a comparison of my (fully logged and researched) versions and "Originals" and this is what I concluded for now, enjoy:




:worship:. Thanks for the Information.👍👍👍
Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
Reply #240 posted 06/10/19 2:40pm

stillwaiting

SquirrelMeat said:

If an elite trader tells me a track has been altered but won’t share it; verses a bootlegger, and now, the estate who will provide me with ‘a’ version, I’m going to side with the bootlegger and estate every time.

One side is giving me a rant, the other is giving me Prince music. I’ll side with the music.

[Off topic snip - luv4u]

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #241 posted 06/10/19 3:18pm

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #242 posted 06/10/19 3:19pm

BartVanHemelen

Review by Get Ready To Rock!: http://getreadytorock.me....originals/

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #243 posted 06/10/19 3:22pm

BartVanHemelen

Review by Nöjesguiden (in Swedish): https://ng.se/recensioner...-originals

.

[Edited 6/10/19 15:24pm]

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #244 posted 06/10/19 3:24pm

BartVanHemelen

Review by Hot New Hip Hop: https://www.hotnewhiphop....19220.html

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #245 posted 06/10/19 3:26pm

BartVanHemelen

According to http://www.superdeluxeedi...june-2019/ , there's goign to be an interview with Michael Howe on Super Deluxe Edition soon.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #246 posted 06/10/19 4:33pm

stillwaiting

databank said:

.

2/ The choice of songs/versions. Tinkering aside, I'm down with that, I want everything so in the end whether they release a version or another, as long as it's genuine, I'm happy. I would have done things differently: I would have tried to release the last known Prince version/mix/edit of the track

.

.

4/ Regarding Wally Safford, for those who don't know and IIRC, he's currently accused by the Estate of being behind the tracks that ended-up on the latest Eye Records, and he's facing heavy legal action. Not cool at all and shows that no, it's not yet entirely safe to 'leak' stuff.

.

OK, gotta go now. I'll be back later smile

First of all, it's always safe to release for free, but most elitist traders have the need to not release it no matter what, not trying to attack Neversign, no reason to pick on him, he has been helpful in this debate, right or wrong, I like his input...but most elite traders would rather die than let their stuff leak, it's part of the narcissist nature of many of them. Wally likely just needed the money, but should have known what he was doing. If he is guilty of it, it is his problem, but seriously, is he getting the electric chair? Fines he cannot possibly afford to pay? Wally will probably be ok. He ain't getting his picture on Post Office walls for sure.

And as far as what version to release? It should simply be the best one. If Endorphinmachine was left off Gold, would we want the final version? Not me. And though the first version of songs are not always the best either...Guitar Demo anyone? Yuck! Now if Prince personally tinkered with these songs to get the mixes that are on Originals..great..but I tend to think that they were doctored by the powers that be...I just hope not.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #247 posted 06/10/19 5:03pm

stillwaiting

scififilmnerd said:

And Duane Tudahl could do another updated edition of his Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions after this release. lol

Tudahl has already released the same book twice. If he made a 1984-1987 book, and had a section with anything that needed to be in the other book, just add an extra chapter or two, don't make people triple dip for the same book. It's a must read though.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #248 posted 06/10/19 5:21pm

stillwaiting

dustoff said:

BartVanHemelen said:

This has been known for decades. http://www.princevault.co...haelangelo . Here's an org post from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/22508 and if you google it you'll get dozens of results.

Your point? That because something is listed on Princevault, or if there was a thread about it 17 years ago, it should never again be raised in conversation?

The poster didn't claim to have discoverered the fact, just that s/he came across the information, which is relevent to this discussion.

Christ, ease up a little.

[Snip - luv4u]

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #249 posted 06/10/19 6:09pm

stillwaiting

donnyenglish said:

should be very careful about what we are asking for when we complain about the sound quality on tracks like Wouldn’t You Love to Love Me. The Estate is listening and we may only get finished and pristine vault material, which will mean we won’t get gems like that track.[Edited 6/9/19 10:21am] [Edited 6/9/19 14:23pm]

I don't know if ANYBODY is actually listening. When everybody involved is bankrupt, little releases like this will not really help. The top 25,000 fans should buy the valut themselves, and vote on all matters. Yeah a pipe dream, but one that would pay off. Of course finding 25,000 fans willing to shell enough money to buy the vault and govern it is far fatched. If I win Powerball, it's mine though lol.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #250 posted 06/10/19 6:12pm

controversy99

dustoff said:

Neversin said:

You lot are just not worth it and deserve the garbage you get and praise....


Neversin said:

Just for you (and maybe other morons): when movies break box office records ...

Neversin said:

Typing the words "Netflix", "Prince" and "Documentary" into, for example, Google is an even too difficult a task for the idiots in here...


Neversin said:

I never heard someone complain about those and if they did they're full of shit...


Neversin said:

Only dumb and full of shit stalkery types, who don't know shit about sound, praise those garbage "bass-heavy because kids like that" headphones...

Neversin said:

You lot are just not worth it and deserve the garbage you get and praise....

Neversin said:

I don't needs more of these fucking insecure smegma munchers coming out the woodwork again to hijack topics and insult me, so stop asking...


The cognative dissonance here is amazing. You obviously know a lot about Prince bootlegs but seriously, give the constant invectives a rest. Why others get flame-snipped at the drop of a hat, but you get a pass for this constant malevolence is beyond me.

This post right here by dustoff is really on point. There's no need for some folks (in this case neversin) to be so vitriolic. We're all fans of Prince's music (or most of us are), and we come to the .org to communicate with others about his music and the various other topics on this website. I appreciate the insights that people bring, but it's hard to enjoy that if somebody's calling people 'morons,' 'idiots,' 'shit stalkery,' and such.

"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
Reply #251 posted 06/10/19 6:19pm

controversy99

Kares said:

databank said:

So mant replies since I last came yesterday and many things I'd like to reply to but too little time today. Thanks to everyone who provided insights and debated in a civil manner. Originals is now "out there" on the internet and I gave it my first listen. Of course it was an interesting listening experience but for now I'll just stick to a few general comments.

.

1/ The Frankenstein situation: I will do my best to investigate, check available info about recording logs and ask a few people I know, and also read the Jill/Susannah interview above in details. I will try to come-up with a detailed report of everything I've found about each track. However Neversin already revealed enough and despite some people's defiance, I will say this: there are some people here who, though being only human and (like myself, of course) not free from making a mistake every once in a while, have provided usueful information to the community without failing year after year. I share with those people a taste for accurate and objective information and research, and I trust their judgement, not blindly, not foolishly, but because so far and as far as I know, they have never been caught making up shit or talking nonsense. Neversin is one of those people, I appreciate his insights and I trust his judgement. I will, nevertheless, try to cross sources and informations to try and come-up with the most accurate results, and explain my reasoning when I do so, as I have with NC2U, so everyone can judge for themselves. Please people before asking again "how can you possibly know...", go back and read the detailed explaination I already posted twice in this thread, and see for yourself.

.

2/ The choice of songs/versions. Tinkering aside, I'm down with that, I want everything so in the end whether they release a version or another, as long as it's genuine, I'm happy. I would have done things differently: I would have tried to release the last known Prince version/mix/edit of the track before it was overdubbed by the vocal artist or sent to an artist outside the camp. But that's OK, I'm always happy to have anything. The sequencing certainly doesn't sound anything like a "real" Prince album but if you accept it's just a compilation and not intended as an album, it's OK too, you can always make your own playlist of posthumous songs. I think I'll still prefer the final released versions, in many case I find those "works in progress" versions less dynamic than what Prince finally put out and I think his choices were wise when he finished the tracks, but it's always great to have earlier cuts.

.

3/ The sound. Again, putting aside the tinkering and with M. Howe acknowledging, at least, that they had to remix the multitracks based on the cassette mixdowns, I have a few things in mind that bother me a little but there I'd really like to hear what Kares and other people with engineering experience have to say. I think maybe this is more a matter of mastering than mixing, but I find many tracks to sound different from the released versions. I find the overall sound to have more bass and depth, in lack of better words, than the old Prince releases. Those sounded a little flatter and more high pitched, which IMHO made the songs sound more dynamic and agressive (Sex Shooter would be a perfect example: the Originals version sounds much less agressive to me despite being the same). It's particularly obvious to me with Baby, You're A Trip, and even more when it comes to the drums: compare it to the JJ version and it sounds totally different. But it could also be the fact that I have all those songs from the CDs, which are said too have been poorly transfered and sound bad by comparison to the original LP's. So I wouldn't go as far as to say this is all wrong, + I don't have the best stereo, and I'm no audiophile, so feel free to dismiss this whole paragraph, but my impression is that those new mixes/masters do not attempt much to respect Prince's original, sometimes a bit lo-fi, vision. This is not so much a surprise considering how the vocals and strings are mixed differently on NC2U by comparison to the original, unreleased Family version.

.

.

You're right in saying that many of the new mixes sound quite different to the previously released versions. But it's mainly the result of mixing, not mastering. I'm not sure what work-in-progress or raw mixdown tapes they used as references, but the results are surely different and in some cases (especially Manic Monday) sound even a bit disrespectful of the original. (I love MM on the new release, I just don't think it is ethical to change the sound that much.)
.
The main issue with the new mixes is that the effects used during the mixing process back when they were mixing the Vanity 6, Sheila E, Apollonia 6 etc tracks are missing and/or are different on these new versions. Some engineers/artists prefer "printing" the effects to tape, in those cases the multitracks end up already having most of the effects so they are very easy to mix – others, like Prince, liked to retain the flexibility for future mixes by only recording dry signals and adding effects only during the mixing process. Both approaches have pros and cons of course. But on some songs of 'Originals' it seems like we ended up with mostly just the dry signal that was found on the multitrack, hence the different sound when compared with the previous releases.

.

Another issue is (again...) the tape speeds. 'Sex Shooter' is slightly below, 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me' is slightly above normal pitch, but some others aren't 100% spot on either.

.

[Edited 6/9/19 3:19am]

This civil tone and sincerity is muc appreciated, at least by me.

Btw, my g, next letter in te alpabet, and quotation mark keys are failin badly, so please excuse tose letters not appearin in some words.

"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
Reply #252 posted 06/10/19 6:22pm

Strive

Here's something weird. Tidal put up a video playlist with brief clips of people talking about Prince.

https://listen.tidal.com/playlist/9f7b9a84-d6db-4c54-80db-4886dafb12f3


In Praise Of Prince

1) Dave Chappelle on Prince's entourage
2) Questlove on Prince's brilliance
3) Gruff Rhys on Prince's strength
4) Tony Mosley on Prince's originality
5) Sonny Thompson on Prince's rehearsal process
6) Morris Hayes on Prince's mastery
7) Bobby Z on Prince's gifts
8) Tommy Barbella on Prince's production
9) Tommy Barbella on Prince's swagger
10) Wendy Melvoin on Prince's uniqueness
11) Susannah Melvoin on Prince's songwriting
12) Dr. Fink on Prince's improvisational skills
13) Susannah Melvoin on Prince's creative process
14) Van Jones on Prince's rebellious streak
15) Lisa Coleman on Prince's dedication
16) Damaris Lewis on Prince's emotional songs
17) Bobby Z on Prince's first impression

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #253 posted 06/10/19 6:31pm

sro100

udo said:

sro100 said:

"Baby You're a Trip" is the standout as of this very second.

I've had this for years and years and years but not like this.

.

What are the differences?

Quality. Length. Some small audio changes.

Reply #254 posted 06/10/19 6:33pm

sro100

Doozer said:

udo said:

.

What are the differences?

For me it’s the ending of the song, which includes Prince’s vocals the way Jill’s version ends - ...Idon’tcareyou’reatripandahalf Iwantchaeveryday HEY!

That takes it to a new level. But quality and other subtle changes also. Now it sounds like a song you could play for anyone as one of Prince's all-time best.

Reply #255 posted 06/10/19 6:34pm

sro100

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

sro100 said:

"Baby You're a Trip" is the standout as of this very second.

I've had this for years and years and years but not like this.

Yep. I have to hand it to whomever mixed this all out. Who knows what the state of the recordings were when they got their hands on them, but the mix is so fucking tasteful. So good. The voices, the music, all the little flourishes are at the perfect level. I sincerely hope the people behind this compilation get props during awards season.

Yes, now it's a like a finished perfect track.

Reply #256 posted 06/10/19 7:00pm

Moonbeam

Haven't seen this review posted yet (my apologies if it has been). It's from LA Times and is a bit silly, but thought I'd share anyway:

https://www.latimes.com/e...story.html

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #257 posted 06/10/19 7:31pm

controversy99

Wouldn't You Love to Love Me is my jam! It's funny how the song that I enjoy the most is the one with the worst sound quality. It's got this driving groove to it that just makes my head bob. This could be a single release, but that sounds quality means that it probably won't ... that plus the crazy late 70s / early 80s disco key change that occurs in the extended part of the chorus. This version is so much better than the bootleg that I have and better than the Taja Sevelle version. Something about the energy reminds me of the early 80s version of Extraloveable.

Other songs that I really enjoy are Manic Monday, Jungle Love, and You're My Love. MM because I like the melancholy (possiby just laid back) voice. JL cause it's fun. You're My Love because of the very different from typical Prince vocals, although the song itself is very cheesy.

I'd be really happy if a single emerges from this that does well on the radio, but I can't really see it. The most radio friendly songs already had their run back in the 80s. What's cool about a popular single, to me, is that you can experience enjoying the song with random groups of people, in conversations, and at unexpected places. It becomes part of a collective experience, which is just a cool thing. Instead, this is like a great single disc bootleg of random songs--a disc that I can enjoy at home, in the car, or with a couple of friends but probably won't be a larger, collective experience.

"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
Reply #258 posted 06/10/19 8:03pm

EddieC

Kares said:

TheEnglishGent said:


Could the speed/pitch problem just be down to the tape player which this session was recorded to?

.
It is due to that indeed. He taped it on a machine (probably some cheap, consumer tape recorder) that wasn't properly calibrated. Now as long as you play back the tape on the same machine, the recording is fine of course. The problem starts when you put it into a different machine, which is what happened here, obviously. Mr Howe & Co. obviously transferred this tape to computer using a properly calibrated professional cassette recorder. Which resulted in playing it back slightly faster (and higher in pitch) than Prince's old recorder would've played it. It is something they should've noticed and corrected, as this would NOT have been manipulation, it would've been a simple case of eliminating a technical glitch.
.

Is this why so many of the outtakes that circulate have pitch issues (at least from what I see other people say--I can't usually tell)? I know there are a few that circulate in very different speeds, but far more often I see people say something's slightly fast or slightly slow, but I wondered how they could tell. Your explanation has cleared that up quite a bit (my ear isn't going to tell me exactly what the A is tuned to, but I understand that some people can in fact hear it).

Also, thanks to Neversin for more information on what's he sees as happening with these released versions--and for giving some clues as to what's in collectors' hands. For me, the main thing that needs to happen in these general releases is clear and honest descriptions of what they used and what they did--I'd like to have any and every thing that can be considered a stop on the way in every track's development, but that sort of archive dump (looking at Bob's ongoing Bootleg Series and Copyright extension inspired releases) is only going to happen a ways down the road, if ever. I doubt they're even close to knowing what they've got at this point. But for now, I'd really like more clear explanations with tracks then we've received so far.

Reply #259 posted 06/10/19 9:22pm

paisleypark4

Strive said:

It's interesting how the leaked version of The Glamorous Life is 8:05

Wish we got the full version of that and Sex Shooter. Outside of those two, I'm really enjoying Originals. It should be a good gateway for people that only know Prince in passing.


This one was even a little different than the leaked version but honestly there wasnt too much to go on after the vocals stopped honestly unlike the Sheila E version with her glorious percussion
Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
Reply #260 posted 06/10/19 10:53pm

Kares

EddieC said:

Kares said:

.
It is due to that indeed. He taped it on a machine (probably some cheap, consumer tape recorder) that wasn't properly calibrated. Now as long as you play back the tape on the same machine, the recording is fine of course. The problem starts when you put it into a different machine, which is what happened here, obviously. Mr Howe & Co. obviously transferred this tape to computer using a properly calibrated professional cassette recorder. Which resulted in playing it back slightly faster (and higher in pitch) than Prince's old recorder would've played it. It is something they should've noticed and corrected, as this would NOT have been manipulation, it would've been a simple case of eliminating a technical glitch.
.

Is this why so many of the outtakes that circulate have pitch issues (at least from what I see other people say--I can't usually tell)? I know there are a few that circulate in very different speeds, but far more often I see people say something's slightly fast or slightly slow, but I wondered how they could tell. Your explanation has cleared that up quite a bit (my ear isn't going to tell me exactly what the A is tuned to, but I understand that some people can in fact hear it).

.

Yes, more often than not, a cassette played back on a different machine than it was recorded on will play slightly slower or faster, as most cassette recorders weren't accurately calibrated (I'm talking about the consumer ones, of course, not the professional ones.) It's a very simple fix though, once the tape is transferred to computer – you just need good ears to readjust the playback speed so the music will match the standard-tuned musical notes. Another common anomaly of the cheap cassette recorders, wow&flutter (an irregularly changing speed back and forth), is a far more serious issue though and it's next-to-impossible to correct, although there are 1 or 2 promising plugins now in development.
.

BTW, there's another type of tape-speed issue that's very often noticable even on big selling albums made typically in the '60s and '70s: when some songs on the album are playing slightly off-key. That is the result of using incorrectly calibrated tape-recorders in the studio. Typically, when the band ran out of tracks to record to (on the 4-, 8- or 16-track machine), they mixed ("dumped") the already recorded tracks onto 2 tracks of another multitrack machine, so they could gain additional tracks to record to. But often this new multitrack tape was put back on the previous machine and if there was a speed-difference between the two machines, it played back slightly slower or faster (therefore higher or lower in pitch too). Often these differences were tiny so it didn't even bother the musicians, but sometimes could be very noticable, especially when it happened during mastering (playing back the mixdown tape on a machine with slightly different speed than the one it was recorded on). And it can be very annoying on an album, especially when two songs or pieces are in the same key and are next to each other, but one of them plays half of a semitone higher or lower.
.

And then there are tempo issues on some recordings that have nothing to do with tape or any technical problems, only with sloppy musicianship: such as the 12" version of Let's Work or Billy Cobham's 'Stratus'. I love these tracks but it really annoys me how both of them slow down gradually, especially 'Stratus'. And we're not talking about amateur musicians here... smile
.

[Edited 6/10/19 23:02pm]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #261 posted 06/10/19 11:26pm

JorisE73

controversy99 said:

dustoff said:


The cognative dissonance here is amazing. You obviously know a lot about Prince bootlegs but seriously, give the constant invectives a rest. Why others get flame-snipped at the drop of a hat, but you get a pass for this constant malevolence is beyond me.

This post right here by dustoff is really on point. There's no need for some folks (in this case neversin) to be so vitriolic. We're all fans of Prince's music (or most of us are), and we come to the .org to communicate with others about his music and the various other topics on this website. I appreciate the insights that people bring, but it's hard to enjoy that if somebody's calling people 'morons,' 'idiots,' 'shit stalkery,' and such.



Some people just deserve it. lol

Reply #262 posted 06/10/19 11:27pm

JorisE73

Lots of great info in this thread! Thanks to everyone an keep it coming wink

Reply #263 posted 06/10/19 11:58pm

Kares

JorisE73 said:

controversy99 said:

This post right here by dustoff is really on point. There's no need for some folks (in this case neversin) to be so vitriolic. We're all fans of Prince's music (or most of us are), and we come to the .org to communicate with others about his music and the various other topics on this website. I appreciate the insights that people bring, but it's hard to enjoy that if somebody's calling people 'morons,' 'idiots,' 'shit stalkery,' and such.


Some people just deserve it. lol

.

Maybe. Yet we can still choose to act in a civil manner and stay respectful of each other.

.

I'd go as far as humbly noting that perhaps we could even show mutual respect for each other as well as to the man who brought us together by entirely ditching swearing too, for example. I have a feeling it won't happen, but just think about it for a minute: what if this group of people that claims to admire Prince's legacy could actually change and move forward along some of the universal values he happened to appreciate in his latter years. I'm not talking about following him to Jehova's Witnesses or believing in "chemtrails", no. I'm only talking about swearing which is something that honestly hurts my ear, and I'm not the only one. How much more civil it would be if we could just all respect each other at least on the basic level of not offending...

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #264 posted 06/11/19 12:06am

WhisperingDandelions

The closed thread leadline made on the "cathedral"-like echo present on the tracks has me going back and hearing it everywhere. https://prince.org/msg/7/459780

Like listen to the parts on "Jungle Love" when it's just Prince talking over just the guitar lick (1:27 "You wanna make love or what?" line, full echo chamber) Or that mass of echo washing into the tape degradation of "Wouldn't You Love to Love Me?" I kind of don't remember a similar sound on other Prince recordings from the same time either.

leadline said:

Almost all these tracks seem to have a chorus and reverb effect added to the main vocal track, there is no way Prince had this much echo, or any at all, on his voice for these demos when he recorded them, yet this ehco/reverb/chorus is consistent across 10 years of demos on a singular album of demos. No other unlreleased demos that we have have shared this similiarity.

Kinda ticks me off they took the liberty to do this.

[Edited 6/11/19 0:08am]

Reply #265 posted 06/11/19 1:00am

Kares

WhisperingDandelions said:

The closed thread leadline made on the "cathedral"-like echo present on the tracks has me going back and hearing it everywhere. https://prince.org/msg/7/459780

Like listen to the parts on "Jungle Love" when it's just Prince talking over just the guitar lick (1:27 "You wanna make love or what?" line, full echo chamber) Or that mass of echo washing into the tape degradation of "Wouldn't You Love to Love Me?" I kind of don't remember a similar sound on other Prince recordings from the same time either.

leadline said:

Almost all these tracks seem to have a chorus and reverb effect added to the main vocal track, there is no way Prince had this much echo, or any at all, on his voice for these demos when he recorded them, yet this ehco/reverb/chorus is consistent across 10 years of demos on a singular album of demos. No other unlreleased demos that we have have shared this similiarity.

Kinda ticks me off they took the liberty to do this.

[Edited 6/11/19 0:08am]

.

It's reverb, not echo, but you're right in saying that it's too wet and also got a chorusy type of effect on Prince's vocals and these are all very different to the sound on the Time version. Morris's vocals are constantly being panned left and right but it hasn't got that much effect on it, while Prince's vocal track is not moving left-right, but it's got that weird chorus effect and too much reverb.

.
WYLTLM is not from cassette, btw, as someone here claimed, but it's drowning in reverb too – sounds like the drums have a ton of spring reverb on them.
.
Sonically the mixes on this album are a right mess. Some too dry, some drowning in reverb.
And I've just read another interview with M. Howe that made me even more uncomfortable than I already was regarding the future of the vault... sad

.

[Edited 6/11/19 1:02am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #266 posted 06/11/19 1:25am

TheEnglishGent

Kares said:

.
And I've just read another interview with M. Howe that made me even more uncomfortable than I already was regarding the future of the vault... sad

.

[Edited 6/11/19 1:02am]

Which interview please?

RIP sad
Reply #267 posted 06/11/19 1:41am

olb99

Kares said:

I mean how many decades and how many dozen rereleases it took Columbia to correct the speed of Kind of Blue?... smile

.

Yes, I almost forgot: the tape speed issue with KoB, finally fixed for a remaster in 1992 (so 34 years to fix that mistake, using the backup tapes). That's the kind of mistakes I don't notice, though, as I'm not a musician. The different versions of "Agharta", mixed completely differently (effects vs no effects) and with completely different durations, are the things that bother me.

.

Kares said:

.

I just want to say, before the org police comes and clears all my offtopic ramblings that I appreciate your avatar - Aura is such an amazing and underrated album! smile

.

Yes, amazing album. I realized yesterday that I hadn't listened to it in many years, so listened to it again. Speaking of technical mistakes and to be slightly more on-topic: the 2000 remaster of "Aura" has at least 3 obvious differences compared to the original release, and those differences are IIRC not documented in the liner notes (at least 2 of them are not). We're talking about parts of the recordings that were not included on the original releases, here, not stuff that was removed or modified, but those things should be documented. Always. In the case of "Originals", it would be even more important to have all the technical details.

.

Kares said:

And I've just read another interview with M. Howe that made me even more uncomfortable than I already was regarding the future of the vault... sad

.

Which one specifically?

Reply #268 posted 06/11/19 1:42am

Kares

TheEnglishGent said:

Kares said:

.
And I've just read another interview with M. Howe that made me even more uncomfortable than I already was regarding the future of the vault... sad

.

[Edited 6/11/19 1:02am]

Which interview please?

.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PRINCE/comments/bxmc5x/interview_with_michael_howe_vault_archivist_on/
.

1.: An absolute, total lack of concept and long-term release plan, instead he's improvising based on feedback.
.

2.: No thoroughly researched, systematic cataloguing of every single recording (if there would be one, he'd immediately see how outrageously he's underestimating the amount of treasures they're sitting on by saying "we have enough material to make another volume". They have enough material to make 9 more volumes of 'Originals' – with deluxe versions of each, containing every version of every track, instead of the edits and ignorant mixes they made.)
.
3.: Apparent lack of a deep technical understanding of studio engineering.
.
4.: Serious lack of knowledge regarding Prince's circulating outtakes and of how the collectors' community operates and how the huge Prince-bootleg market works. ("I was surprised to see things circulating in very good quality. I do not know how it is done.").
.
...and I could go on... And this is only regarding the future releases. Prince's legacy, however, is far more than the music, and we haven't even started talking about preserving that.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #269 posted 06/11/19 2:12am

olb99

Kares said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Which interview please?

.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PRINCE/comments/bxmc5x/interview_with_michael_howe_vault_archivist_on/
.

1.: An absolute, total lack of concept and long-term release plan, instead he's improvising based on feedback.
.

2.: No thoroughly researched, systematic cataloguing of every single recording (if there would be one, he'd immediately see how outrageously he's underestimating the amount of treasures they're sitting on by saying "we have enough material to make another volume". They have enough material to make 9 more volumes of 'Originals' – with deluxe versions of each, containing every version of every track, instead of the edits and ignorant mixes they made.)
.
3.: Apparent lack of a deep technical understanding of studio engineering.
.
4.: Serious lack of knowledge regarding Prince's circulating outtakes and of how the collectors' community operates and how the huge Prince-bootleg market works. ("I was surprised to see things circulating in very good quality. I do not know how it is done.").
.
...and I could go on... And this is only regarding the future releases. Prince's legacy, however, is far more than the music, and we haven't even started talking about preserving that.
.

.

Don't you think we should write him a letter or something? What's the most constructive thing we could/should do?

.

I don't know if unsolicited help/advice would be appreciated, but if we do something, it should probably be done as a concerted effort.

Reply #270 posted 06/11/19 2:24am

Kares

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PRINCE/comments/bxmc5x/interview_with_michael_howe_vault_archivist_on/
.

1.: An absolute, total lack of concept and long-term release plan, instead he's improvising based on feedback.
.

2.: No thoroughly researched, systematic cataloguing of every single recording (if there would be one, he'd immediately see how outrageously he's underestimating the amount of treasures they're sitting on by saying "we have enough material to make another volume". They have enough material to make 9 more volumes of 'Originals' – with deluxe versions of each, containing every version of every track, instead of the edits and ignorant mixes they made.)
.
3.: Apparent lack of a deep technical understanding of studio engineering.
.
4.: Serious lack of knowledge regarding Prince's circulating outtakes and of how the collectors' community operates and how the huge Prince-bootleg market works. ("I was surprised to see things circulating in very good quality. I do not know how it is done.").
.
...and I could go on... And this is only regarding the future releases. Prince's legacy, however, is far more than the music, and we haven't even started talking about preserving that.
.

.

Don't you think we should write him a letter or something? What's the most constructive thing we could/should do?

.

I don't know if unsolicited help/advice would be appreciated, but if we do something, it should probably be done as a concerted effort.

.
I don't want to attack Michael Howe in any way. (Yes, I know I've just used some strong expressions in my previous post, but still...) He's obviously in a very difficult and incredibly demanding position. He's not sitting on the top of the entire organisation as a sole leader. The Estate itself is still a mess and it's currently still managed by a bank. So I'm sure the decision-making procedures are rather complex and anyone in his position would have to face the difficulty of struggling with people who know very little about music or the music industry – and an even bigger difficulty is having to work with people who lack a clear vision for what direction the Estate should take in order to fulfill its primary goals of keeping Prince's legacy alive and generating several constant, healthy income streams.
.
I do have detailed, long-term plans I've been thinking and working on for quite some time now since Prince passed, but I'm still unsure if I should contact the heirs and others in charge... But sooner or later something needs to be done and I'm passionate about sharing Prince's gift and legacy with the world. I'm just not sure yet if it's the right time to try to intervene at this stage.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #271 posted 06/11/19 2:41am

udo

Kares said:

...and I could go on... And this is only regarding the future releases. Prince's legacy, however, is far more than the music, and we haven't even started talking about preserving that.

.

.

I'd say: IMPEACH the man.

(no, I am not a fan of the democrats or ussa politics in general)

In the Prince case this man does not do the work he is supposed to do.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #272 posted 06/11/19 2:47am

udo

From that reddit Mahciel interview, I see this:

You have encountered the same problem of sound with other titles of "Originals"?

This song was really different. There have been cases where the only tape available with the final version we had was on tape. And the tape is not the ideal source for the mastering process. So we had to rework with the original tracks to mix them so as to reproduce the song identical to what was on this tape. It allows to have the same version of this song which was on this support but with an optimal sound quality.

What is the man actually saying here?

A tape which is on tape which is not ideal?

This could suggest that most other 'tapes' are already in the digital realm on a NAS/SAN somewhere.

Or what does Michael imply here?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #273 posted 06/11/19 2:56am

Kares

udo said:

From that reddit Mahciel interview, I see this:

You have encountered the same problem of sound with other titles of "Originals"?

This song was really different. There have been cases where the only tape available with the final version we had was on tape. And the tape is not the ideal source for the mastering process. So we had to rework with the original tracks to mix them so as to reproduce the song identical to what was on this tape. It allows to have the same version of this song which was on this support but with an optimal sound quality.

What is the man actually saying here?

A tape which is on tape which is not ideal?

This could suggest that most other 'tapes' are already in the digital realm on a NAS/SAN somewhere.

Or what does Michael imply here?

.

He's talking about cases where what they consider the "final version" was only on cassette tape, not on professional (1/4" or 1/2") tape. I guess the word "cassette" was lost in translation or during transcribing.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #274 posted 06/11/19 3:02am

udo

Could a team of knowledgable Prince fans have 'talk'/discussion with this Michael Howe person?

This could help clear up the issues with the ways things appear to be going right now.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #275 posted 06/11/19 3:08am

Kares

udo said:

Could a team of knowledgable Prince fans have 'talk'/discussion with this Michael Howe person?

This could help clear up the issues with the ways things appear to be going right now.

.
He's bound by NDAs so wouldn't be able to answer almost any of the important questions, so even if he'd agree to it, it couldn't be a real discussion, as in many cases the most he'd be able to react is "thank you for your input".

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #276 posted 06/11/19 4:06am

IstenSzek

sro100 said:

Doozer said:

udo said: For me it’s the ending of the song, which includes Prince’s vocals the way Jill’s version ends - ...Idon’tcareyou’reatripandahalf Iwantchaeveryday HEY!

That takes it to a new level. But quality and other subtle changes also. Now it sounds like a song you could play for anyone as one of Prince's all-time best.


imagine it flowing into "mia bocca" though eek

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #277 posted 06/11/19 5:21am

EddieC

Kares said:

A Whole Bunch of Technical Explanation about Speed/Pitch Issues

Thanks a lot--I've always found accounts of studio trickery from analog tape days really interesting, but I hadn't really understood how many opportunities there were for unintended complication and error.

Reply #278 posted 06/11/19 6:34am

olb99

IstenSzek said:

sro100 said:

That takes it to a new level. But quality and other subtle changes also. Now it sounds like a song you could play for anyone as one of Prince's all-time best.


imagine it flowing into "mia bocca" though eek

.

That ending with Prince's vocals is amazing. I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, as I know a lot of people think Jill oversings, but I think she did a really, really good job with that part (and with the whole album, actually - there, I said it).

Reply #279 posted 06/11/19 6:52am

Kares

olb99 said:

IstenSzek said:


imagine it flowing into "mia bocca" though eek

.

That ending with Prince's vocals is amazing. I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, as I know a lot of people think Jill oversings, but I think she did a really, really good job with that part (and with the whole album, actually - there, I said it).

.

I'm with you. Jill's great too, absolutely, but Prince's version is magnificent. Sublime. Can hardly find the words for it. Those delicate little guitar licks, that Hammond, that bass, that whole church vibe – and then Prince's crazyamazing vocals... I've just listened to it another 10x while driving and I'm totally in awe.

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #280 posted 06/11/19 6:54am

Kares

EddieC said:

Kares said:

Thanks a lot--I've always found accounts of studio trickery from analog tape days really interesting, but I hadn't really understood how many opportunities there were for unintended complication and error.

.

Thank you, glad you found it interesting. I could add dozens of other potential issues but I don't want to go way off-topic again (as I tend to do that all the time anyway... razz)

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #281 posted 06/11/19 7:08am

lynx

Se7en said:

Thanks Neversin for the breakdown!

Trying to think like just a casual listener (it's hard to do!) but the things that are glaring to me are those very weird, almost sampled screams on 100 MPH (were those in any other version?!) and the really bad quality of Wouldn't You Love To Love Me.

And yes, Love Thy Will Be Done does not belong on a set focusing on the early-to-mid 80s.

Prince Estate: if you're reading this, there are experts here in this Forum that you'd be wise to enlist on future projects!

I've been waiting YEARS for a crystal clear version of the Love Thy Will B Done. Count me in as "happy"

Reply #282 posted 06/11/19 7:23am

databank

olb99 said:

IstenSzek said:


imagine it flowing into "mia bocca" though eek

.

That ending with Prince's vocals is amazing. I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, as I know a lot of people think Jill oversings, but I think she did a really, really good job with that part (and with the whole album, actually - there, I said it).

Jill's vocals are gorgeous throughout the album. IDK what people mean by "oversings" but AFAIK her album is one of the most cherished side projects, so I think most fans are very happy with her performance nod

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #283 posted 06/11/19 7:30am

highcalonic

Kares said:

olb99 said:

.

That ending with Prince's vocals is amazing. I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, as I know a lot of people think Jill oversings, but I think she did a really, really good job with that part (and with the whole album, actually - there, I said it).

.

I'm with you. Jill's great too, absolutely, but Prince's version is magnificent. Sublime. Can hardly find the words for it. Those delicate little guitar licks, that Hammond, that bass, that whole church vibe – and then Prince's crazyamazing vocals... I've just listened to it another 10x while driving and I'm totally in awe.

.

Same here, only for this track "Originals" is a must have, incredible.

I'm a musician myself and i record, mix and do a lot of mastering but only using digital so thanx for this interesting discussion about analog tapes and pitch problems.

I try to play along some bootleg rehearsals for example and i encounter this pitch problem often.

"You can skate around the issue if you like,
But who's gonna get you high in the middle of the night?"
Reply #284 posted 06/11/19 7:31am

goosepumble

JAYJOE said:

In A Large Room With No Light

The day they release this - I think I'll be as giddy as a school girl.

Reply #285 posted 06/11/19 7:44am

databank

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PRINCE/comments/bxmc5x/interview_with_michael_howe_vault_archivist_on/
.

1.: An absolute, total lack of concept and long-term release plan, instead he's improvising based on feedback.
.

2.: No thoroughly researched, systematic cataloguing of every single recording (if there would be one, he'd immediately see how outrageously he's underestimating the amount of treasures they're sitting on by saying "we have enough material to make another volume". They have enough material to make 9 more volumes of 'Originals' – with deluxe versions of each, containing every version of every track, instead of the edits and ignorant mixes they made.)
.
3.: Apparent lack of a deep technical understanding of studio engineering.
.
4.: Serious lack of knowledge regarding Prince's circulating outtakes and of how the collectors' community operates and how the huge Prince-bootleg market works. ("I was surprised to see things circulating in very good quality. I do not know how it is done.").
.
...and I could go on... And this is only regarding the future releases. Prince's legacy, however, is far more than the music, and we haven't even started talking about preserving that.
.

.

Don't you think we should write him a letter or something? What's the most constructive thing we could/should do?

.

I don't know if unsolicited help/advice would be appreciated, but if we do something, it should probably be done as a concerted effort.

Of course contacting Mr. Howe would be great, except I don't have his email and I doubt the person reading the Estate's site email will forward a mail to him. Maybe if there were hundreds of mails of complaints to the Estate and WB altogether, but I don't see it happening. And yes to what Kares said, his job is not easy, he has to answer to higher powers, with great powers come great responsibilities and so on... We may have better knowledge of P's works, but if any of us were in charge of the Vault and releases, we would probably feel very humble and question each decision we make. But clearly when you're someone in that sort of position and responsibilities, unsollicited comments and suggestions by ordinary citizens are neither welcome nor paid attention to. It's not Mr. Howe specifically, it's anyone with his kind of job.

.

Our best hope is the likes of Supermegadeluxe and other music sites/mags, they're sort of the inbetweeners between us mere mortals and the execs. I would write to them now but I think that before throwing accusations outside of the org, which is still sort of a private garden for hardcore fans, we need to have a case as solid as the case of NC2U for each track we claim has been messed with. I also haven't checked yet what they say on the SteveHoffman board, sometimes interesting things are said there about those reissues.

.

I will study the available data closely and contact the people I know who may know something (I have started sending some emails). I suggest anyone here who has contact with any artist or engineer involved or any serious collector or "in the know" person does the same. Altogether we are virtually connected to the whole purple web and the more we crossreference the better.

.

Oh, and I just wanted to say because both in the thread and privately, many orgers told me they enjoyed the record and were not sure about the negativity: I am of 2 minds for obvious reasons about it, but I enjoy it, too. Nothing should stop anyone from enjoying it. But some of us just need to get to the bottom of it and figure out what's entirely genuine and what may have been "tinkered" with, because some of us don't want any such thing to happen again.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #286 posted 06/11/19 7:49am

udo

Kares said:

in many cases the most he'd be able to react is "thank you for your input".

.

Sure, but then at least we have undeniably pointed out the flaws in his work, pointed out the directions that the work should be going and pointed out the speed at which things should be going.

This fixes the need for him to go through 'all over the org' and gives him the info in a condensed way.

It can all be done in 30 minutes or less as questions are an NDA-issue, so it will be a one way statement mostly.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #287 posted 06/11/19 7:58am

Genesia

I am astounded at the arrogance on display here. Wait - no, I'm not. disbelief

[Edited 6/11/19 8:01am]

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #288 posted 06/11/19 8:13am

Neversin

udo said:

Kares said:

in many cases the most he'd be able to react is "thank you for your input".

.

Sure, but then at least we have undeniably pointed out the flaws in his work, pointed out the directions that the work should be going and pointed out the speed at which things should be going.

This fixes the need for him to go through 'all over the org' and gives him the info in a condensed way.

It can all be done in 30 minutes or less as questions are an NDA-issue, so it will be a one way statement mostly.


Read Bart's update from an interview in "De Morgen" with Howe and you'll see that any useful info from people who followed and researched Prince and his music will be consciously neglected...
I won't waste my time trying to talk sense into these simpletons...
These are the kind of people handling Prince's music folks...
The only mildly decent idea from them is the most obvious one that even a 5 year old could come up with: a new NPGMC like site...

https://prince.org/msg/7/...?&pg=2

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #289 posted 06/11/19 9:30am

Graycap23

Genesia said:

I am astounded at the arrogance on display here. Wait - no, I'm not. disbelief

[Edited 6/11/19 8:01am]

Crazy isn't it?

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
Reply #290 posted 06/11/19 9:35am

Wolfie87

goosepumble said:

JAYJOE said:

In A Large Room With No Light

The day they release this - I think I'll be as giddy as a school girl.

Jungle Love was sort of a holy grail that we never thought to see the light of. So, I count about 1-2 years until IALRWNL.

Reply #291 posted 06/11/19 9:54am

jaawwnn

databank said:

olb99 said:

.

That ending with Prince's vocals is amazing. I don't know whether I'm in the minority here, as I know a lot of people think Jill oversings, but I think she did a really, really good job with that part (and with the whole album, actually - there, I said it).

Jill's vocals are gorgeous throughout the album. IDK what people mean by "oversings" but AFAIK her album is one of the most cherished side projects, so I think most fans are very happy with her performance nod

She has a very strong, forceful way of singing that seems to annoy some people. I am not one of them, I think she's possibly the best singer he ever worked with.

Reply #292 posted 06/11/19 10:03am

TakEpri

Kares said:

EmmaMcG said:

Loefie said: I am also going to do that. I had to hear it first though to make sure it was worth buying.

.

It is definitely worth buying.
I didn't say this about Purple Rain Deluxe, as I found the fact that they used cassette copies for sourcing such masterpieces as 'Love And Sex' and 'Computer Blue' insulting. But 'Originals' (despite its issues) is a must have. Some of Prince's performances are quite breathtaking and most of the songs sound great too.

Hi, Kares and all!

This is my first post on this forum, and sorry for responding to a bit old topic.

I don't know if someone mentioned this earlier, but I realized that when I playback PR deluxe on Tidal master streaming, MQA encoding parameters on some songs are different from others.

Most of the songs are encoded as ORIGINALSAMPLERATE:192000, but some songs are encoded as ORIGINALSAMPLERATE:44100, those are

Love And Sex

Computer Blue ("Hallway Speech" Version)

Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden

Velvet Kitty Cat

Katrina's Paper Dolls

Father's Song

When Doves Cry (7" Single Edit)

It seems like that the difference between MQA encoding parameters may be based on the difference of the source media. Are the titles above the same as what you recognize as cassette-sourced?

Reply #293 posted 06/11/19 10:24am

TwiliteKid

Genesia said:

I am astounded at the arrogance on display here. Wait - no, I'm not. disbelief

[Edited 6/11/19 8:01am]

Arrogance, entitlement, self-delusion - the list goes on and on.

Reply #294 posted 06/11/19 10:39am

Kares

TakEpri said:

Kares said:

.

It is definitely worth buying.
I didn't say this about Purple Rain Deluxe, as I found the fact that they used cassette copies for sourcing such masterpieces as 'Love And Sex' and 'Computer Blue' insulting. But 'Originals' (despite its issues) is a must have. Some of Prince's performances are quite breathtaking and most of the songs sound great too.

Hi, Kares and all!

This is my first post on this forum, and sorry for responding to a bit old topic.

I don't know if someone mentioned this earlier, but I realized that when I playback PR deluxe on Tidal master streaming, MQA encoding parameters on some songs are different from others.

Most of the songs are encoded as ORIGINALSAMPLERATE:192000, but some songs are encoded as ORIGINALSAMPLERATE:44100, those are

Love And Sex

Computer Blue ("Hallway Speech" Version)

Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden

Velvet Kitty Cat

Katrina's Paper Dolls

Father's Song

When Doves Cry (7" Single Edit)

It seems like that the difference between MQA encoding parameters may be based on the difference of the source media. Are the titles above the same as what you recognize as cassette-sourced?

.
Hi and welcome smile
.

I believe the entire Disc 2 of Purple Rain Deluxe was sourced from cassettes. 'When Doves Cry (7" Single Edit' should not have been, so I'm not sure why that is different.
.
MQA is a tricky format, I'm not a fan of it tbh, as its quality is based on the processing capabilities of the device playing it, therefore the same file can play in higher quality on an MQA-equipped amplifier than on a phone, for example. And while MQA is hi-definition (24bit / 192kHz), it uses lossy compression. In my view it is not as good as the quality Qobuz offers.
.
So while of course it would've been possible to release the cassette-sourced outtakes in 24bit/192kHz too, apparently Warners decided that there's no point as they are poor quality anyway and I agree with them.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #295 posted 06/11/19 11:19am

luv4u

Moderator

moderator

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
Reply #296 posted 06/11/19 12:18pm

bfunk

Kares said:

TakEpri said:

Hi, Kares and all!

This is my first post on this forum, and sorry for responding to a bit old topic.

I don't know if someone mentioned this earlier, but I realized that when I playback PR deluxe on Tidal master streaming, MQA encoding parameters on some songs are different from others.

Most of the songs are encoded as ORIGINALSAMPLERATE:192000, but some songs are encoded as ORIGINALSAMPLERATE:44100, those are

Love And Sex

Computer Blue ("Hallway Speech" Version)

Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden

Velvet Kitty Cat

Katrina's Paper Dolls

Father's Song

When Doves Cry (7" Single Edit)

It seems like that the difference between MQA encoding parameters may be based on the difference of the source media. Are the titles above the same as what you recognize as cassette-sourced?

.
Hi and welcome smile
.

I believe the entire Disc 2 of Purple Rain Deluxe was sourced from cassettes. 'When Doves Cry (7" Single Edit' should not have been, so I'm not sure why that is different.
.
MQA is a tricky format, I'm not a fan of it tbh, as its quality is based on the processing capabilities of the device playing it, therefore the same file can play in higher quality on an MQA-equipped amplifier than on a phone, for example. And while MQA is hi-definition (24bit / 192kHz), it uses lossy compression. In my view it is not as good as the quality Qobuz offers.
.
So while of course it would've been possible to release the cassette-sourced outtakes in 24bit/192kHz too, apparently Warners decided that there's no point as they are poor quality anyway and I agree with them.
.

This is the case with the downloads available on HD Tracks for the PR Deluxe:

https://www.hdtracks.com/...ge-search1

[Edited 6/11/19 12:21pm]

Reply #297 posted 06/11/19 12:24pm

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #298 posted 06/11/19 1:13pm

Kares

bfunk said:

Kares said:

.
Hi and welcome smile
.

I believe the entire Disc 2 of Purple Rain Deluxe was sourced from cassettes. 'When Doves Cry (7" Single Edit' should not have been, so I'm not sure why that is different.
.
MQA is a tricky format, I'm not a fan of it tbh, as its quality is based on the processing capabilities of the device playing it, therefore the same file can play in higher quality on an MQA-equipped amplifier than on a phone, for example. And while MQA is hi-definition (24bit / 192kHz), it uses lossy compression. In my view it is not as good as the quality Qobuz offers.
.
So while of course it would've been possible to release the cassette-sourced outtakes in 24bit/192kHz too, apparently Warners decided that there's no point as they are poor quality anyway and I agree with them.
.

This is the case with the downloads available on HD Tracks for the PR Deluxe:

https://www.hdtracks.com/...ge-search1

[Edited 6/11/19 12:21pm]

.

I see.
Well, that is just carelessness. There's no reason for such a mess, regardless of the source tape. If they've received the Purple Rain album remaster in 24/96 from Prince, then they could've just used that resolution for discs 2 and 3 too, for the sake of simplicity.

.

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #299 posted 06/11/19 1:23pm

Romeoblu

Listening to Your My Love really makes me hope Prince's version The Time's Girl gets released one day. His vocals would really elevate that damn fine song even higher.
Reply #300 posted 06/11/19 1:34pm

goosepumble

It's a bit of a weak album concept, but I am glad to hear the songs in a better quality nonetheless. Given the concept and what's here, I wish they'd also included Prince's versions of Desire and Mutiny. I love Prince's version of Desire.

Reply #301 posted 06/11/19 2:46pm

OnlyNDaUsa

goosepumble said:

It's a bit of a weak album concept, but I am glad to hear the songs in a better quality nonetheless. Given the concept and what's here, I wish they'd also included Prince's versions of Desire and Mutiny. I love Prince's version of Desire.

I heard it played officaly!

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #302 posted 06/11/19 3:37pm

fen

Kares said:

olb99 said:

.

I just listened to the Scandalous Sex Suite again. It's incredible, indeed.

.

About that guitar solo on "The Rapture": it's not the same recording as the guitar track on "Dear Michaelangelo", is it? Maybe I'm tired/deaf. He's definitely playing something similar, hitting the same notes, but it doesn't sound like the same solo (i.e. "Dear Michaelangelo" was an inspiration, but he didn't sample the track).

.
I just want to say, before the org police comes and clears all my offtopic ramblings that I appreciate your avatar - Aura is such an amazing and underrated album! smile

Miles' last masterpiece. biggrin

Reply #303 posted 06/11/19 3:40pm

TakEpri

Kares said:

 



bfunk said:


 


 



Kares said:


 


.
Hi and welcome smile
.


I believe the entire Disc 2 of Purple Rain Deluxe was sourced from cassettes. 'When Doves Cry (7" Single Edit' should not have been, so I'm not sure why that is different.
.
MQA is a tricky format, I'm not a fan of it tbh, as its quality is based on the processing capabilities of the device playing it, therefore the same file can play in higher quality on an MQA-equipped amplifier than on a phone, for example. And while MQA is hi-definition (24bit / 192kHz), it uses lossy compression. In my view it is not as good as the quality Qobuz offers.
.
So while of course it would've been possible to release the cassette-sourced outtakes in 24bit/192kHz too, apparently Warners decided that there's no point as they are poor quality anyway and I agree with them.



 


 


This is the case with the downloads available on HD Tracks for the PR Deluxe:


 


https://www.hdtracks.com/purple-rain-deluxe-expanded-edition?___store=default&nosto=nosto-page-search1


 


[Edited 6/11/19 12:21pm]



.


I see.
Well, that is just carelessness. There's no reason for such a mess, regardless of the source tape. If they've received the Purple Rain album remaster in 24/96 from Prince, then they could've just used that resolution for discs 2 and 3 too, for the sake of simplicity. 


.



Thanks for the info, so the situation is similar in hdtracks but only Father's Song is different.
This is difficult to understand but I can hardly believe it is just a carelessness...
Reply #304 posted 06/11/19 4:09pm

TwiliteKid

OnlyNDaUsa said:

 



goosepumble said:


It's a bit of a weak album concept, but I am glad to hear the songs in a better quality nonetheless. Given the concept and what's here, I wish they'd also included Prince's versions of Desire and Mutiny. I love Prince's version of Desire.



 


 


I heard it played officaly! 



Details?
Reply #305 posted 06/11/19 4:11pm

bonnie184

PEGGY MCCREARY INTERVIEW
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/prince-engineer-peggy-mccreary-interview-originals/

Do we know the title of her Birthday song?
[Edited 6/11/19 16:12pm]
Reply #306 posted 06/11/19 4:20pm

TwiliteKid

bonnie184 said:

PEGGY MCCREARY INTERVIEW
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/prince-engineer-peggy-mccreary-interview-originals/

Do we know the title of her Birthday song?
[Edited 6/11/19 16:12pm]


This piece is oddly similar to Jon Bream’s from a few days ago. In that one Peggy says the track is “You’re All I Want”: http://princevault.com/index.php?title=You%27re_All_I_Want
[Edited 6/11/19 16:20pm]
Reply #307 posted 06/11/19 4:25pm

mbdtyler

I know people have pointed out some of the vocals being of low quality (at least in "100 MPH"), but do the drums in "Manic Monday" sound muddy to anyone else? It's really noticeable in the intro, but every fill and snare roll throughout sounds muddy confused

Reply #308 posted 06/11/19 5:13pm

FUNKNROLL

BartVanHemelen said:

Review in Slate: https://slate.com/culture...s-2-u.html

From the article..

[T]he only real difference is that Prince is singing them. In some ways this is welcome—after all, a vaguely bored-sounding Prince is still a far better singer than Jill Jones—but it certainly doesn’t do anything to diminish the long-standing impression that Prince viewed certain of his female protégés as little more than glorified karaoke singers.

That's just cold and wrong on too many levels. He gave these people near-complete songs because that was what was in his head. Some people get by on piano and guitar. The man heard whole songs and possessed the ability to make them real within hours. Should he have stopped at guitar and piano sketches so others could fill in the blanks? I suppose its fashionable today, to paint the women in his life back then as victims. However, the writer doesn't acknowledge the record deals he secured for all the people in his orbit. He didn't have to do any of it for any of them.

Reply #309 posted 06/11/19 5:28pm

Moonbeam

FUNKNROLL said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Review in Slate: https://slate.com/culture...s-2-u.html

From the article..

[T]he only real difference is that Prince is singing them. In some ways this is welcome—after all, a vaguely bored-sounding Prince is still a far better singer than Jill Jones—but it certainly doesn’t do anything to diminish the long-standing impression that Prince viewed certain of his female protégés as little more than glorified karaoke singers.

That's just cold and wrong on too many levels. He gave these people near-complete songs because that was what was in his head. Some people get by on piano and guitar. The man heard whole songs and possessed the ability to make them real within hours. Should he have stopped at guitar and piano sketches so others could fill in the blanks? I suppose its fashionable today, to paint the women in his life back then as victims. However, the writer doesn't acknowledge the record deals he secured for all the people in his orbit. He didn't have to do any of it for any of them.


That part rubbed me the wrong way as well, and not just for the reasons you mention. How anyone could come across with the impression that "Baby, You're a Trip" of all songs features Prince sounding vaguely bored is completely beyond me.

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #310 posted 06/11/19 10:36pm

Kares

TakEpri said:

Kares said:

.

I see.
Well, that is just carelessness. There's no reason for such a mess, regardless of the source tape. If they've received the Purple Rain album remaster in 24/96 from Prince, then they could've just used that resolution for discs 2 and 3 too, for the sake of simplicity.

.

.

Thanks for the info, so the situation is similar in hdtracks but only Father's Song is different. This is difficult to understand but I can hardly believe it is just a carelessness...

.

What else would it be? There's no reason to put songs of an album out in different resolutions, regardless of the quality or the format of the analog source.
.

When an entire album is of poor quality (such as 'official bootleg' releases or stuff sourced from cassettes), I see no point in putting those out in 24bit/192kHz as it will just result in bigger files unnecessarily, 24bit/48kHz will be good enough, but using different resolution for different songs on the same album just shows carelessness.

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #311 posted 06/11/19 11:25pm

love2thenines2003

bonnie184 said:

PEGGY MCCREARY INTERVIEW
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/prince-engineer-peggy-mccreary-interview-originals/


[Edited 6/11/19 16:12pm]


McCreary Peggy «I just think it’s where the song took him. I remember when we first did “When Doves Cry,” I didn’t pay much attention to it. It seemed like a big grandiose, overproduced thing. And when I listened to the original one, I see why. We came back the next day and he basically unproduced it—took out all the synths and the screaming guitars. The very last thing he did was take out the bass. He just looked at me and said, “Ain’t nobody going to believe I do this.” And it was a huge hit!»


Damned...i want to hear this damned initial version overproduced with more guitars and synths + the bass....so this initial version is not only WDC + the bass...but more a complex mix ! Pleaz....release it !
[Edited 6/11/19 23:27pm]
[Edited 6/11/19 23:49pm]
Reply #312 posted 06/11/19 11:33pm

udo

love2thenines2003 said:

....so this initial version is not only WDC + the bass...but more a complex mix ! Pleaz....release it !

.

So that will be the un-original mix.. lol

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #313 posted 06/12/19 12:47am

JorisE73

Neversin said:

udo said:

.

Sure, but then at least we have undeniably pointed out the flaws in his work, pointed out the directions that the work should be going and pointed out the speed at which things should be going.

This fixes the need for him to go through 'all over the org' and gives him the info in a condensed way.

It can all be done in 30 minutes or less as questions are an NDA-issue, so it will be a one way statement mostly.


Read Bart's update from an interview in "De Morgen" with Howe and you'll see that any useful info from people who followed and researched Prince and his music will be consciously neglected...
I won't waste my time trying to talk sense into these simpletons...
These are the kind of people handling Prince's music folks...
The only mildly decent idea from them is the most obvious one that even a 5 year old could come up with: a new NPGMC like site...

https://prince.org/msg/7/...?&pg=2

Neversin.


Given the NDA's he signed I get that discussions with fans for input could be in breach of that, but not doing anything or not let them know what people like you know about his recordings would be a missed oportunity to maybe steer thing in the right direction.

Honestly I don't thnk Prince would have liked that Mr. Spotify Troy Carter (a service he famously didn't like) and WB (we all know how he thought about them) yes-man Michael Howe are in charge of handling his recordings.

All in all, don;t give up or else the next thing you know we'll be getting are posthumous Justin Timberlake collaborations or Questlove remixes or whatever.

Reply #314 posted 06/12/19 1:11am

Kares

JorisE73 said:

Neversin said:


Read Bart's update from an interview in "De Morgen" with Howe and you'll see that any useful info from people who followed and researched Prince and his music will be consciously neglected...


Given the NDA's he signed I get that discussions with fans for input could be in breach of that, but not doing anything or not let them know what people like you know about his recordings would be a missed oportunity to maybe steer thing in the right direction.

Honestly I don't thnk Prince would have liked that Mr. Spotify Troy Carter (a service he famously didn't like) and WB (we all know how he thought about them) yes-man Michael Howe are in charge of handling his recordings.

All in all, don;t give up or else the next thing you know we'll be getting are posthumous Justin Timberlake collaborations or Questlove remixes or whatever.

.
I'm afraid you're still missing the point that Michael Howe is not running the Estate. The big decisions are not made by him but by Comerica Bank. Fighting for changes in how one or two releases are produced is almost pointless while there is absolutely no vision, no concept and there are no guidelines for a comprehensive, well-researched and curated, long-term release program and no vision for preserving Prince's legacy that goes beyond his recorded music archive.
.

My concept and plans I mentioned earlier address all these issues but would require agreement from both the heirs and the Prince Estate administrators at Comerica. Michael Howe does not have the power to steer the boat in the right direction.
.

[Edited 6/12/19 2:32am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #315 posted 06/12/19 1:33am

udo

Kares said:

I'm afraid you're still missing the point that Michael Howe is not running the Estate. The big decisions are not made by him but by Comerica Bank.

.

A bank (i.e.: money) in charge of a release startegy, a plan?

If so: it looks like a rather poor attempt at profit maximization.

Or what am I missing?

.

Fighting for changes in how one or two releases are produced is almost pointless while there is absolutely no vision, no concept and there are no guidelines for a comprehensive, well-researced and curated, long-term release program and no vision for preserving Prince's legacy that goes beyond his recorded music archive.
.

My concept and plans I mentioned earlier address all these issues but would require agreement from both the heirs and the Prince Estate administrators at Comerica. Michael Howe does not have the power to steer the boat in the right direction.
.

.

Amen...!

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #316 posted 06/12/19 3:52am

JorisE73

Kares said:

JorisE73 said:


Given the NDA's he signed I get that discussions with fans for input could be in breach of that, but not doing anything or not let them know what people like you know about his recordings would be a missed oportunity to maybe steer thing in the right direction.

Honestly I don't thnk Prince would have liked that Mr. Spotify Troy Carter (a service he famously didn't like) and WB (we all know how he thought about them) yes-man Michael Howe are in charge of handling his recordings.

All in all, don;t give up or else the next thing you know we'll be getting are posthumous Justin Timberlake collaborations or Questlove remixes or whatever.

.
I'm afraid you're still missing the point that Michael Howe is not running the Estate. The big decisions are not made by him but by Comerica Bank. Fighting for changes in how one or two releases are produced is almost pointless while there is absolutely no vision, no concept and there are no guidelines for a comprehensive, well-researched and curated, long-term release program and no vision for preserving Prince's legacy that goes beyond his recorded music archive.
.

My concept and plans I mentioned earlier address all these issues but would require agreement from both the heirs and the Prince Estate administrators at Comerica. Michael Howe does not have the power to steer the boat in the right direction.
.

[Edited 6/12/19 2:32am]



I know Howe is not running the Estate but he has enough power to push forward a release like the NC2U single and teh Piano and Mic disk in favour of other releases, those were his choices, of course with the approval of Comerica and all, but still.

Reply #317 posted 06/12/19 3:59am

Kares

JorisE73 said:

Kares said:

.
I'm afraid you're still missing the point that Michael Howe is not running the Estate. The big decisions are not made by him but by Comerica Bank. Fighting for changes in how one or two releases are produced is almost pointless while there is absolutely no vision, no concept and there are no guidelines for a comprehensive, well-researched and curated, long-term release program and no vision for preserving Prince's legacy that goes beyond his recorded music archive.
.

My concept and plans I mentioned earlier address all these issues but would require agreement from both the heirs and the Prince Estate administrators at Comerica. Michael Howe does not have the power to steer the boat in the right direction.
.

[Edited 6/12/19 2:32am]



I know Howe is not running the Estate but he has enough power to push forward a release like the NC2U single and teh Piano and Mic disk in favour of other releases, those were his choices, of course with the approval of Comerica and all, but still.

.

Again: Fighting for changes in how one or two releases are produced is almost pointless while there is absolutely no vision, no concept and there are no guidelines for a comprehensive, well-researched and curated, long-term release program and no vision for preserving Prince's legacy that goes beyond his recorded music archive.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #318 posted 06/12/19 6:14am

udo

Well: without a vision, a plan, a strategy or whatever you may call it the profit maximization will not happen nor will the fans be maximally happy.

This means that quality of these releases will be suboptimal, that the release schedule is suboptimal and that the interest of the fans will be suboptimally served.

Let alone the perspective that if we were to live another 40 years more than half of the Vault should be released in that timeframe. They cannot make that happen with the current ways of operation.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #319 posted 06/12/19 6:17am

udo

mbdtyler said:

do the drums in "Manic Monday" sound muddy to anyone else? It's really noticeable in the intro, but every fill and snare roll throughout sounds muddy confused

.

Simply compare to the Bangles' CD version or the ones on youtube.

The originals version sounds darker, the Bangles' version is a bit brighter.

This is also true w.r.t. the drums.

So the `Originals team` (hello Michael!) did not try to match the sound of the released version or at least they failed here.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #320 posted 06/12/19 6:27am

Kares

udo said:

mbdtyler said:

do the drums in "Manic Monday" sound muddy to anyone else? It's really noticeable in the intro, but every fill and snare roll throughout sounds muddy confused

.

Simply compare to the Bangles' CD version or the ones on youtube.

The originals version sounds darker, the Bangles' version is a bit brighter.

This is also true w.r.t. the drums.

So the `Originals team` (hello Michael!) did not try to match the sound of the released version or at least they failed here.

.
Why would one compare the Bangles' version to Prince's? You do know the Bangles recorded their own version, right? And even if they reused any parts of Prince's recording, Prince had nothing to do with their production.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #321 posted 06/12/19 6:28am

TheEnglishGent

udo said:

So the `Originals team` (hello Michael!) did not try to match the sound of the released version or at least they failed here.

I don't think that was wver the intention of this release was it?

RIP sad
Reply #322 posted 06/12/19 6:45am

bonatoc

udo said:

love2thenines2003 said:

....so this initial version is not only WDC + the bass...but more a complex mix ! Pleaz....release it !

.

So that will be the un-original mix.. lol


There's a good chance the "full" version contains the arrangements we hear in the live ad libs, from '84 to '88.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
Reply #323 posted 06/12/19 7:10am

feeluupp

goosepumble said:

It's a bit of a weak album concept, but I am glad to hear the songs in a better quality nonetheless. Given the concept and what's here, I wish they'd also included Prince's versions of Desire and Mutiny. I love Prince's version of Desire.

Agree... Don't know really how I feel... Is this a "solid" release, or were we expecting more as usual...

The concept was lacking, just random songs from the vault put together claming it was "originals", yet there are so many more great songs missing... I listened to this for the past 4 days, but tbh it's a little underwhelming now. It's like ok the interest has peaked now, next release, as selfish as it sounds...

But will I go back to this release as a regular listen, maybe some songs, but as a whole I doubt it.

[Edited 6/12/19 7:11am]

Reply #324 posted 06/12/19 7:13am

IstenSzek

i'm ready to move on to the next release lol

i'm totally in love with a few of these tracks, don't get me wrong.

but i'm anxious to hear an entire album of new material, wether
it's from the 80s, the 90s or the 00s.

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #325 posted 06/12/19 7:33am

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #326 posted 06/12/19 7:37am

BartVanHemelen

Yet another interview with Peggy McReary, this time in Mixdown: http://mixdownmag.com.au/...e-archives

.

However, this seems to be the same one that was posted @ https://wordsbywatts.com....ng-prince/ . (Though I don't think that has been posted already.)

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #327 posted 06/12/19 7:48am

donnyenglish

I have to admit that my high opinion of Originals is based on the low bar that was set by Purple Rain Deluxe and Piano & Microphone 1983. The vault is full of excellent studio and live material.

Reply #328 posted 06/12/19 8:08am

Genesia

Kares said:

udo said:

.

Simply compare to the Bangles' CD version or the ones on youtube.

The originals version sounds darker, the Bangles' version is a bit brighter.

This is also true w.r.t. the drums.

So the `Originals team` (hello Michael!) did not try to match the sound of the released version or at least they failed here.

.
Why would one compare the Bangles' version to Prince's? You do know the Bangles recorded their own version, right? And even if they reused any parts of Prince's recording, Prince had nothing to do with their production.


lol

Priceless.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #329 posted 06/12/19 8:37am

carlos00

After seeing the different opinions expressed in the forum by really expert users in this field, I have the feeling that I’m missing something.

The new mixes are giving a lot to talk about, and songs like Holly Rock are not liking in terms of the final mix. Someone who has analyzed it, please, can shed some light on what specific aspects cause that bad impression?

Personally I am enjoying the mix a lot, where the amount of tracks can seem a little chaotic but it is funky as hell. I also appreciate the increase on bass that was usually not common in the recordings of that era.

Thanks

Reply #330 posted 06/12/19 8:55am

Vannormal

-

Beautifully summed up review from Pitchfork :

-

https://pitchfork.com/rev...originals/

-

I couldn't agree more.

-

I'm happy with this besides all the detailed bitchin' here (and there).

Quality or not.

These songs are much better the way they sound and are presented to us this way.

-

I sometimes love the poor quality bootleg versions over the right now released cleaned up demo versions. Why ? You get used to what you've heard over and over again.

Hiss and cracks can become part of a listening experience, part of you and how you hear a song, combined with the context, era, place, whatever you were in at the time.

-

I'm happy to hear all this. I really do.

The excitement is certainly not like back in the days, but I'm glad we can listen to the 'work in progress'-Prince and especially the fastness of this uncomparable purple wizzard of weirdness.

-

I do hope Grace JOnes picks up this collection! She should for sure make her own version of the unbelievable excellent 'MAKE UP' ! Just imagine that !! wink

And for Bruno Mars : "Wouldn't You Love To Love Me", or "Holly Rock"... Imagine that too. wink

-

Like the review says :

"How wild that a chronicle of a lost era can feel so modern when all over it are musical markers of the ’80s: synths and drum machines and clap tracks and extended breakdowns and of course, sax solos. Nostalgia, even rendered fresh, works on the ear in invisible ways, as does the sequence of these songs."

-

Dear Estate, nearly too late... And now More & Faster !!!

biggrin

-

And here's another great review :

https://themuse.jezebel.c...1835379614

"THAT THESE SONGS IN THEIR DEMO FORMS SOUND SO FULLY EXECUTED IS EVIDENCE OF STUNNING PERFECTIONISM"

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
Reply #331 posted 06/12/19 8:57am

udo

Genesia said:

Priceless.

.

Priceless does not describe the reasons for muddy drums, nor thedarkness I sense in the recording.

It adds to the unevenness.

And did we have the bangles mention why they made the song a bit brighter?

I guess not.

So they simpy duplicated the music.

Why then is the Prince 'orginal' darker? Muddy even?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #332 posted 06/12/19 8:58am

rdhull

udo said:

Genesia said:

Priceless.

.

Priceless does not describe the reasons for muddy drums, nor thedarkness I sense in the recording.

It adds to the unevenness.

And did we have the bangles mention why they made the song a bit brighter?

I guess not.

So they simpy duplicated the music.

Why then is the Prince 'orginal' darker? Muddy even?

Damn dude, just take your L and keep it movin'.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #333 posted 06/12/19 9:05am

Genesia

rdhull said:

udo said:

.

Priceless does not describe the reasons for muddy drums, nor thedarkness I sense in the recording.

It adds to the unevenness.

And did we have the bangles mention why they made the song a bit brighter?

I guess not.

So they simpy duplicated the music.

Why then is the Prince 'orginal' darker? Muddy even?

Damn dude, just take your L and keep it movin'.


Dude is orgnoting me his defensive bullshit, too - even though I told him to stop. He just cannot take a hint. rolleyes

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #334 posted 06/12/19 9:09am

Vannormal

-

By the way, 'Love Thy Will Be' done sounds very out of place in this collection to me.

It was also recorded way later than the bulk of this material I believe...

Am I they only one not so excited about this track ?

Whatever...

-

And once more, this version of 'Wouldn't You Love To Love Me' is COOL as FUCK !

-

Another thing, I love how he sings female lyrics from his point of view. It's the later Camille in him that makes this weird idea so brilliant.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
Reply #335 posted 06/12/19 9:34am

rdhull

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

Damn dude, just take your L and keep it movin'.


Dude is orgnoting me his defensive bullshit, too - even though I told him to stop. He just cannot take a hint. rolleyes

See? These are some of the people the estate are supposed to consider? lol

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #336 posted 06/12/19 9:42am

Genesia

rdhull said:

Genesia said:


Dude is orgnoting me his defensive bullshit, too - even though I told him to stop. He just cannot take a hint. rolleyes

See? These are some of the people the estate are supposed to consider? lol


If I were Michael Howe, I'd spend 24/7/365 with headphones on and email off.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #337 posted 06/12/19 10:37am

stillwaiting

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

See? These are some of the people the estate are supposed to consider? lol


If I were Michael Howe, I'd spend 24/7/365 with headphones on and email off.

Which would be great advice in a perfect world. If we get the Original Joy In Repetition, but get Tony M and TC Ellis pasted in, it will be the fault of those who say we should just let them do their job lol.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #338 posted 06/12/19 10:47am

Genesia

stillwaiting said:

Genesia said:


If I were Michael Howe, I'd spend 24/7/365 with headphones on and email off.

Which would be great advice in a perfect world. If we get the Original Joy In Repetition, but get Tony M and TC Ellis pasted in, it will be the fault of those who say we should just let them do their job lol.


That's just stupid. Michael Howe is not operating in a vacuum or without knowledge of Prince. Has anything they've released, so far, featured any artist but Prince? No. So why would they do it it in the future?

And to blame those who are not being loud, bossy know-it-alls for the decisions about what is released is just moronic.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #339 posted 06/12/19 10:50am

stillwaiting

Genesia said:

stillwaiting said:

Which would be great advice in a perfect world. If we get the Original Joy In Repetition, but get Tony M and TC Ellis pasted in, it will be the fault of those who say we should just let them do their job lol.


That's just stupid. Michael Howe is not operating in a vacuum or without knowledge of Prince. Has anything they've released, so far, featured any artist but Prince? No. So why would they do it it in the future?

And to blame those who are not being loud, bossy know-it-alls for the decisions about what is released is just moronic.

You can have your opinions. If you couldn't why would there even be a forum. It's obvious that those in charge don't have much of an emotional interest in the material as we do. And that leaves it wide open for someone to alter the recordings, or do a hack job on the mastering.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #340 posted 06/12/19 10:56am

rdhull

stillwaiting said:

Genesia said:


That's just stupid. Michael Howe is not operating in a vacuum or without knowledge of Prince. Has anything they've released, so far, featured any artist but Prince? No. So why would they do it it in the future?

And to blame those who are not being loud, bossy know-it-alls for the decisions about what is released is just moronic.

You can have your opinions. If you couldn't why would there even be a forum. It's obvious that those in charge don't have much of an emotional interest in the material as we do. And that leaves it wide open for someone to alter the recordings, or do a hack job on the mastering.

Yall dont even enjoy the music.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #341 posted 06/12/19 11:00am

Genesia

stillwaiting said:

Genesia said:


That's just stupid. Michael Howe is not operating in a vacuum or without knowledge of Prince. Has anything they've released, so far, featured any artist but Prince? No. So why would they do it it in the future?

And to blame those who are not being loud, bossy know-it-alls for the decisions about what is released is just moronic.

You can have your opinions. If you couldn't why would there even be a forum. It's obvious that those in charge don't have much of an emotional interest in the material as we do. And that leaves it wide open for someone to alter the recordings, or do a hack job on the mastering.


How do you even know that? Do you know Michael Howe personally? Have you discussed this process, the music, or his relationship to Prince with him?

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #342 posted 06/12/19 2:36pm

2020

Well that was satisfying.

First time since Art Official Age that I've felt like I was listening to an actual album release of new music from P

I needed that...

9/10

[Edited 6/12/19 14:37pm]

The greatest live performer of our times was is and always will be Prince.

Remember there is only one destination and that place is U
All of it. Everything. Is U.
Reply #343 posted 06/12/19 2:41pm

tomds

When we were asked to name the project that we all would love to see released, I thought the "originals" concept scored very high. So actually we got what most of us wanted. To hear Prince's versions of songs from The Time etc. So why are we bitching about this ? And sure lots of songs are not on this cd. But it is still a single disc. So not everything can be chosen. I am certain there will be more volumes to come.
Reply #344 posted 06/12/19 4:14pm

Doozer

tomds said:

When we were asked to name the project that we all would love to see released, I thought the "originals" concept scored very high. So actually we got what most of us wanted. To hear Prince's versions of songs from The Time etc. So why are we bitching about this ? And sure lots of songs are not on this cd. But it is still a single disc. So not everything can be chosen. I am certain there will be more volumes to come.

I agree - I like the set and am happy to look over whatever manipulation was done to get it in what was considered "release quality." None of it sounds fake and there's something here for casual and diehard fans. I'd gladly pay for a volume 2.

Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
Reply #345 posted 06/12/19 5:58pm

Strive

rdhull said:

Yall dont even enjoy the music.

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #346 posted 06/12/19 6:44pm

bluegangsta

This bullshit Howe keeps talking about WYLTLM being of lesser sound quality because it was recorded on a 16 track shows his lack of technical understanding.

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
Reply #347 posted 06/12/19 6:59pm

ofofoffjoff

Strive said:

rdhull said:

Yall dont even enjoy the music.

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

Not so strange – the org is filled with experts on Prince's catalogue (i.e. Neversin, Databank, etc…) so it is of course baffling and truly sad to witness the utter ignorance of someone like Michael Howe making such uninformed decisions on the music that is being released to the wider public. All this BS – of it having to appeal to all fans. Who are those fans? The ones that only really know about Purple Rain, When Doves Cry and Kiss? When growing up in the 80’s – Prince was always the outlier among those 3 80’s super pop stars (Madonna & Michael Jackson). I dare to say not as popular maybe, but he was polarizing, and he was a greater and more gifted artist in terms of his skillsets than those two others combined. Now that he is passed everybody (the bigger audience) all of the sudden is recognizing his legacy. That group needs to be properly educated of what that legacy actually really entails. Not only the greatness that is still locked away in the vault but his entire recording process is extremely interesting. Which people like Per Nilsen and Duane Tudahl for example have attempted to preserve, document and share APPROPRIATELY. Many of us have been lucky enough to get a glimpse of what is inside the vault and to have these half-assed releases like PR Deluxe, P&M 83 and Originals doesn’t actually showcase his legacy– they all seem to be rushed productions, technically inadequate, just to get something out. It’s in fact watering Prince’s legacy down. I would’ve been keen to wait a couple of years so they could really sort out the vault and make a proper plan in response. Why isn’t Michael Howe doing this with a team of scholars, Prince experts? Why aren’t they reaching out to the elite collectors to collaborate and ensure his musical legacy is properly represented/preserved? No, instead Jay-Z gets in there and demands “Love…They Will Be Done” to be included. Just so they can attach Jay-Z’s name to it and reach that so-called “wide audience”. I am sure he only heard it once when randomly dropping in. There’s no respect here for Prince’s music. Yeah and I know the Estate, Comerica Bank bla bla – not all up to Michael Howe of course – but as a main curator he could also demand a team to support him in this massive and extremely important job.

But my frustration doesn’t negate that I have enjoyed moments of the releases so far – it’s just having to deal with the realization and knowledge that it could’ve been a million times better, if the person in charge had done his homework properly.

[Edited 6/12/19 19:00pm]

Reply #348 posted 06/12/19 8:37pm

rdhull

Strive said:

rdhull said:

Yall dont even enjoy the music.

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

They should release hardly anything because no matter what, people don't appreciate it. Folks were clamoring for the long vers of Computer Blue and it gets release and folks are on to the next one etc. It doesn't matter if it's Howe or BVH who was charging the release content. Once it's released, folk are like you said, on to the next one without giving songs or albums time to marinate or be appreciated. I've meant to make a post about this for quit some time but didnt have the cajones as I knew Id get locked and mocked lol. Prince fans are the absolute worse. And this has nothing much to do with whats out there and in what quality etc. They could release Wally in its original version and a week later people would be whining about 'whats next gimme gimme" lol.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #349 posted 06/12/19 9:38pm

gandorb

Prince has one of the highest criticlly acclaimed albums of the year according to Metacritic. Only a John Coltrane boxed set and the recording of Beyone's Homecoming concert received higher so far. Here is the link to the 5 reviews included.

https://www.metacritic.com/music/originals/prince

[Edited 6/12/19 21:47pm]

[Edited 6/12/19 21:48pm]

Reply #350 posted 06/12/19 9:47pm

databank

gandorb said:

Prince has one of the highest criticlly acclaimed albums of the year according to Metacritic. Only a John Coltrane boxed set and the recording of Beyone's Homecoming concert received higher so far. Here is the link to the 5 reviews included.

https://www.metacritic.com/music/originals/prince

5 critics ain't much. Some movies on RottenTomatoes achieve 100%... with 3 critics. But not sure if that means more critical acclaim than, say, a movie with 150 reviews and a 92% score.

However, I doubt we'll see any negative review about Originals. Except for the apparent problems we have to solve here about the authenticity of some tracks, what's there to say about such a release? I can't imagine any critic saying "we didn't need this, these domos suck, they'd rather be left in the vault". Originals is an interesting historical document that any critics should praise unless they're aware of the authenticity issues (and they are not).

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #351 posted 06/12/19 9:53pm

gandorb

databank said:

gandorb said:

Prince has one of the highest criticlly acclaimed albums of the year according to Metacritic. Only a John Coltrane boxed set and the recording of Beyone's Homecoming concert received higher so far. Here is the link to the 5 reviews included.

https://www.metacritic.com/music/originals/prince

5 critics ain't much. Some movies on RottenTomatoes achieve 100%... with 3 critics. But not sure if that means more critical acclaim than, say, a movie with 150 reviews and a 92% score.

However, I doubt we'll see any negative review about Originals. Except for the apparent problems we have to solve here about the authenticity of some tracks, what's there to say about such a release? I can't imagine any critic saying "we didn't need this, these domos suck, they'd rather be left in the vault". Originals is an interesting historical document that any critics should praise unless they're aware of the authenticity issues (and they are not).

No, 5 critics aren't many and this could change some over time. However, even here all the fans who have bothered to actually rated the songs have been positive. It has been pretty amazing that even the worst rated song is still above a 7. This is not to invalidate your points but just to say that most people are enjoying the hell out of this release.

Reply #352 posted 06/12/19 11:08pm

PurpleBlackmon

After listening to this, I believe that other people are putting their two cents into Prince's music.

Reply #353 posted 06/12/19 11:25pm

TheEnglishGent

rdhull said:

 



Strive said:


 



rdhull said:


Yall dont even enjoy the music. 



 


It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out. 


 


Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore?  lol


 


(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)


 



 


They should release hardly anything because no matter what, people don't appreciate it. Folks were clamoring for the long vers of Computer Blue and it gets release and folks are on to the next one etc. It doesn't matter if it's Howe or BVH who was charging the release content. Once it's released, folk are like you said, on to the next one without giving songs or albums time to marinate or be appreciated. I've meant to make a post about this for quit some time but didnt have the cajones as I knew Id get locked and mocked lol. Prince fans are the absolute worse. And this has nothing much to do with whats out there and in what quality etc. They could release Wally in its original version and a week later people would be whining about 'whats next gimme gimme" lol.

I read your post and am now eagerly awaiting the next thing you have to say.
wink
RIP sad
Reply #354 posted 06/12/19 11:33pm

Moonbeam

ofofoffjoff said:

Strive said:

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

Not so strange – the org is filled with experts on Prince's catalogue (i.e. Neversin, Databank, etc…) so it is of course baffling and truly sad to witness the utter ignorance of someone like Michael Howe making such uninformed decisions on the music that is being released to the wider public. All this BS – of it having to appeal to all fans. Who are those fans? The ones that only really know about Purple Rain, When Doves Cry and Kiss? When growing up in the 80’s – Prince was always the outlier among those 3 80’s super pop stars (Madonna & Michael Jackson). I dare to say not as popular maybe, but he was polarizing, and he was a greater and more gifted artist in terms of his skillsets than those two others combined. Now that he is passed everybody (the bigger audience) all of the sudden is recognizing his legacy. That group needs to be properly educated of what that legacy actually really entails. Not only the greatness that is still locked away in the vault but his entire recording process is extremely interesting. Which people like Per Nilsen and Duane Tudahl for example have attempted to preserve, document and share APPROPRIATELY. Many of us have been lucky enough to get a glimpse of what is inside the vault and to have these half-assed releases like PR Deluxe, P&M 83 and Originals doesn’t actually showcase his legacy– they all seem to be rushed productions, technically inadequate, just to get something out. It’s in fact watering Prince’s legacy down. I would’ve been keen to wait a couple of years so they could really sort out the vault and make a proper plan in response. Why isn’t Michael Howe doing this with a team of scholars, Prince experts? Why aren’t they reaching out to the elite collectors to collaborate and ensure his musical legacy is properly represented/preserved? No, instead Jay-Z gets in there and demands “Love…They Will Be Done” to be included. Just so they can attach Jay-Z’s name to it and reach that so-called “wide audience”. I am sure he only heard it once when randomly dropping in. There’s no respect here for Prince’s music. Yeah and I know the Estate, Comerica Bank bla bla – not all up to Michael Howe of course – but as a main curator he could also demand a team to support him in this massive and extremely important job.

But my frustration doesn’t negate that I have enjoyed moments of the releases so far – it’s just having to deal with the realization and knowledge that it could’ve been a million times better, if the person in charge had done his homework properly.

[Edited 6/12/19 19:00pm]


Come on, now. These releases aren't hurting his legacy or watering it down at all. Sure, some hardcore fans are complaining about them, but I'd say a majority of hardcore fans are enjoying them (as evident from the Originals poll), and casual fans seem to be enjoying them as well. 4Ever, Purple Rain Deluxe, Piano & a Microphone 1983, and Originals all have high ratings at RateYourMusic, much higher than almost all of the releases from before 2016.

Here are how his studio albums are rated there post name change:

Come: 3.18
The Gold Experience: 3.61
Chaos and Disorder: 2.95
Emancipation: 3.16
Crystal Ball: 3.35
Kamasutra: 2.25
The Truth: 3.24
New Power Soul: 2.86
The Vault... Old Friends 4 Sale: 3.13
Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic: 2.71
Rave In2 the Joy Fantastic: 3.05
The Rainbow Children: 3.45
One Nite Alone: 3.45
Xpectation: 2.83
NEWS: 3.08
The Chocolate Invasion: 3.02
The Slaughterhouse: 2.89
Musicology: 3.33
3121: 3.35
Planet Earth: 2.94
Lotusflow3r: 3.24
MPLSOUND: 3.02
20Ten: 2.81
Art Official Age: 3.13
Plectrumelectrum: 2.88
HitnRun Phase One: 2.82
HitnRun Phase Two: 3.48
Piano & a Microphone 1983: 3.65
Originals: 3.90

Both Piano & a Microphone 1983 and Originals rate more highly than anything since 1993. In fact, they rate higher than anything outside of the 1980-1987 studio albums. Originals only has 59 ratings so far, but I expect it to still remain above 3.6 with more ratings.

As far as compilations go, 4Ever has a higher rating than any comp outside The Hits/The B-Sides.

Sometimes it's good to step outside of the hardcore bubble and have a look around, and all I've seen has been a positive response to each release. I appreciate concerns over authenticity, Frankenstein mixes, etc., but most people either don't know or don't care about these things - they are just hearing music that they are enjoying. And while concerns about particular mixes, effects and so forth may be valid, it's not like some of the posthumous MJ releases that saw non-MJ vocals being passed off as MJ vocals and so forth.

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #355 posted 06/12/19 11:36pm

JorisE73

rdhull said:

Strive said:

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

They should release hardly anything because no matter what, people don't appreciate it. Folks were clamoring for the long vers of Computer Blue and it gets release and folks are on to the next one etc. It doesn't matter if it's Howe or BVH who was charging the release content. Once it's released, folk are like you said, on to the next one without giving songs or albums time to marinate or be appreciated. I've meant to make a post about this for quit some time but didnt have the cajones as I knew Id get locked and mocked lol. Prince fans are the absolute worse. And this has nothing much to do with whats out there and in what quality etc. They could release Wally in its original version and a week later people would be whining about 'whats next gimme gimme" lol.


I think more people enjoy this release than not and I don't think it's about that people not apreciate a new release but some mistakes (in teh case of Computer Blue and the sound issues/drop out) are to obvious and amateur when fans expect a certain standard of excellence regardng Deluxe Editions especially when it comes to Prince.
With this new release I enjoy it (but I really want my CD/LP instead of digital becuase I think holding and reading the cover or liner notes is part of my enjoyment of it.) but when people easily point out the mistakes on it it can frustrate fans and the enjoyment of what could have been.
Don't dismis all fans man, there are some, like you and me who do enjoy the music and I think when everything was handled better most hardcore fans would to.

Reply #356 posted 06/13/19 2:10am

dodger

rdhull said:

Strive said:

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

They should release hardly anything because no matter what, people don't appreciate it. Folks were clamoring for the long vers of Computer Blue and it gets release and folks are on to the next one etc. It doesn't matter if it's Howe or BVH who was charging the release content. Once it's released, folk are like you said, on to the next one without giving songs or albums time to marinate or be appreciated. I've meant to make a post about this for quit some time but didnt have the cajones as I knew Id get locked and mocked lol. Prince fans are the absolute worse. And this has nothing much to do with whats out there and in what quality etc. They could release Wally in its original version and a week later people would be whining about 'whats next gimme gimme" lol.

100%

This is a society thing that P touched on in Clouds.

Plus maybe the BFTP sets turned some into spoilt brats.

[Edited 6/13/19 2:11am]

Reply #357 posted 06/13/19 2:15am

IstenSzek

rdhull said:

Strive said:

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

They should release hardly anything because no matter what, people don't appreciate it. Folks were clamoring for the long vers of Computer Blue and it gets release and folks are on to the next one etc. It doesn't matter if it's Howe or BVH who was charging the release content. Once it's released, folk are like you said, on to the next one without giving songs or albums time to marinate or be appreciated. I've meant to make a post about this for quit some time but didnt have the cajones as I knew Id get locked and mocked lol. Prince fans are the absolute worse. And this has nothing much to do with whats out there and in what quality etc. They could release Wally in its original version and a week later people would be whining about 'whats next gimme gimme" lol.


i've written about this before. and although i'm ready to move on to the next album giggle (i found
it's because i'm just thirsty for NEW prince material, which i always relish and treasure), it is a little
bit weird that people want stuff so bad and once they get it they hardly even talk about it.

songs like 'coco boys' and 'come elektra tuesday' or 'red scarlet' etc. it's like we never even got them
in the first place. they seem to have fallen into a big black hole lol

meanwhile, i've created little playlists for myself (well, a huge one for all the official and non official
85/86/87 tracks, sort of like a big sparkling fantastic crystal ball extravaganza) and others like a
neat little 88/89 era one, which i enjoy every other day or so. i can't get enough of those new songs.
and no, i don't tire of them. it's like getting a new album was in 1988 or (for me) in 1997 or 2006,
i listen to it all.the.time.

i'm pacing myself with the stuff on "originals" that i don't really know (like 'you're my love') because
i want a few songs to discover and enjoy in case there's a long spell of no new material now.


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #358 posted 06/13/19 3:01am

BartVanHemelen

IstenSzek said:

songs like 'coco boys' and 'come elektra tuesday' or 'red scarlet' etc. it's like we never even got them
in the first place. they seem to have fallen into a big black hole lol

.

Probably because they were part of this extremely large leak/release. It's like when you enter a store to buy cookies and have to choose between dozens or even hundreds of options: whatever you pick, you'll always end up thinking that you might have missed out on something else that was better.

.

There's also the fragmentation. You need to invest a lot of time to check which leaked version is the best one, to compile a playlist, etc. This involves looking through decades of bootlegs, an uphill battle if you haven't properly curated such a collection. Ideally fans could collaborate on this, but due to the legal hassle this is impossible.

.

What is missing is a properly curated set of releases that would present such songs in their proper context etc.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #359 posted 06/13/19 3:05am

BartVanHemelen

JorisE73 said:

With this new release I enjoy it (but I really want my CD/LP instead of digital becuase I think holding and reading the cover or liner notes is part of my enjoyment of it.)

.

I hate to say this, but there are lots of signs indicating that the regular releases won't have much in the way of a booklet, and that only the deluxe edition contains lots of essays and liner notes etc. And that set isn't getting released until late July. And I wouldn't be surprised if much of the contents of that set's liner notes have already been revealed via the interviews with Peggy McCreary and Susannah et al.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #360 posted 06/13/19 3:40am

databank

BartVanHemelen said:

JorisE73 said:

With this new release I enjoy it (but I really want my CD/LP instead of digital becuase I think holding and reading the cover or liner notes is part of my enjoyment of it.)

.

I hate to say this, but there are lots of signs indicating that the regular releases won't have much in the way of a booklet, and that only the deluxe edition contains lots of essays and liner notes etc. And that set isn't getting released until late July. And I wouldn't be surprised if much of the contents of that set's liner notes have already been revealed via the interviews with Peggy McCreary and Susannah et al.

It beats me why they won't hire Duane as a consultant for both content and liner note. And I wish they'd explain in detail what was done to each track in terms of restoration, mix, possible Frankenstein interventions, etc. If they were fully transparant about this, one could disagree with their choices but at least everyone would know what they purchase.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #361 posted 06/13/19 3:57am

udo

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

I hate to say this, but there are lots of signs indicating that the regular releases won't have much in the way of a booklet, and that only the deluxe edition contains lots of essays and liner notes etc. And that set isn't getting released until late July. And I wouldn't be surprised if much of the contents of that set's liner notes have already been revealed via the interviews with Peggy McCreary and Susannah et al.

It beats me why they won't hire Duane as a consultant for both content and liner note. And I wish they'd explain in detail what was done to each track in terms of restoration, mix, possible Frankenstein interventions, etc. If they were fully transparant about this, one could disagree with their choices but at least everyone would know what they purchase.

.

yeahthat

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #362 posted 06/13/19 4:25am

Kares

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

I hate to say this, but there are lots of signs indicating that the regular releases won't have much in the way of a booklet, and that only the deluxe edition contains lots of essays and liner notes etc. And that set isn't getting released until late July. And I wouldn't be surprised if much of the contents of that set's liner notes have already been revealed via the interviews with Peggy McCreary and Susannah et al.

It beats me why they won't hire Duane as a consultant for both content and liner note. And I wish they'd explain in detail what was done to each track in terms of restoration, mix, possible Frankenstein interventions, etc. If they were fully transparant about this, one could disagree with their choices but at least everyone would know what they purchase.

.

Because they are a bank. They are suits who don't know anything about music nor do they care much. I keep having to remind people (not you, but many others) that Michael Howe is NOT running the estate, Comerica Bank does. Even the heirs aren't getting much say in what's going on, let alone outside experts.

.

The administrators' mindset is most probably something like "it's a massive estate of this Purple Rain guy, with a huge inventory of tapes none of us know much about and it would cost a fortune to pay experts to explore, so let's just try to find something that can be marketed as from the same era as Purple Rain and make some quick buck".

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #363 posted 06/13/19 4:31am

carlos00

For those that doesn’t like the mix done to “Holly Rock”. Can you explain a little about what aspects you are not agree with?

Reply #364 posted 06/13/19 5:07am

Ramzoo

Sorry I didn't read all posts, but:

I just listened to Originals, my first impression is very positive of course.

Without any doubt, my favorites are:

1/Jungle Love: I love this version!

2/Noon Rendezvous: so glad to get Prince’s version from 84’!

3/Baby, You’re A Trip: killing version as it is different (at the end) from what we heard be4.

4/The Glamorous Life.

Reply #365 posted 06/13/19 6:07am

databank

carlos00 said:

For those that doesn’t like the mix done to “Holly Rock”. Can you explain a little about what aspects you are not agree with?

It's not about "like", it's about authenticity. Neversin is the only one here (that we know of) who has the earlier draft of Holly Rock and most likely it has to do with the sax and other overdubs that he believes, based on that tape and the recording logs he's aware of, were borrowed from the final Sheila mix. He said "too much to list", maybe at a later date he will elaborate.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #366 posted 06/13/19 6:55am

carlos00

databank said:

carlos00 said:

For those that doesn’t like the mix done to “Holly Rock”. Can you explain a little about what aspects you are not agree with?

It's not about "like", it's about authenticity. Neversin is the only one here (that we know of) who has the earlier draft of Holly Rock and most likely it has to do with the sax and other overdubs that he believes, based on that tape and the recording logs he's aware of, were borrowed from the final Sheila mix. He said "too much to list", maybe at a later date he will elaborate.

Thanks for the answer. Now i understand. Maybe Neversin can tell us more about it.

Reply #367 posted 06/13/19 7:10am

databank

carlos00 said:

databank said:

It's not about "like", it's about authenticity. Neversin is the only one here (that we know of) who has the earlier draft of Holly Rock and most likely it has to do with the sax and other overdubs that he believes, based on that tape and the recording logs he's aware of, were borrowed from the final Sheila mix. He said "too much to list", maybe at a later date he will elaborate.

Thanks for the answer. Now i understand. Maybe Neversin can tell us more about it.

Yes. Just to be totally clear, I think we all enjoy the record and that everyone would be happy with it if we were certain that each and every track is authentic. The only problem that we have is that there is much doubt, near total certainty when it comes to NC2U, about the authenticity of some of the tracks' mixes, i.e. it appears that some mixes are mashups of the final mix with Prince vocals and later overdubs from the released version, added to the rougher Prince mix to make them more radio-friendly, or posthumous edits to make the song shorter. There are also serious doubts about the Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden crossfade on PR Deluxe and we know for a fact that the edit of Let's Work on 4ever is a fake edit, not the original 7''.

.

Now I'm gonna try to get to the bottom of this, and I'm not the only one working on it, but it will take a few weeks to have a more complete picture. Believe me, nothing would make me happier than to get definitive evidence that we got it all wrong and that each and every song is faithful to what Prince left in the vault nod And maybe indeed we'll realize that it's not as bad as we think. I sure hope so nod

.

[Edited 6/13/19 7:11am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #368 posted 06/13/19 7:42am

olb99

BartVanHemelen said:

IstenSzek said:

songs like 'coco boys' and 'come elektra tuesday' or 'red scarlet' etc. it's like we never even got them
in the first place. they seem to have fallen into a big black hole lol

.

Probably because they were part of this extremely large leak/release. It's like when you enter a store to buy cookies and have to choose between dozens or even hundreds of options: whatever you pick, you'll always end up thinking that you might have missed out on something else that was better.

.

There's also the fragmentation. You need to invest a lot of time to check which leaked version is the best one, to compile a playlist, etc. This involves looking through decades of bootlegs, an uphill battle if you haven't properly curated such a collection. Ideally fans could collaborate on this, but due to the legal hassle this is impossible.

.

What is missing is a properly curated set of releases that would present such songs in their proper context etc.

.

Exactly. I'm still regularly listening to those BFTP releases from 2017. They're full of gems. They're also a mess. Mixing excellent outtakes with rehashed stuff. All out of order/context, of course. So I tend to listen to stuff from those sets, because they were released relatively recently (2 years ago) and I still remember them. That's also a problem with non-album tracks. If it were not for fan-made compilations, I would never listen to those tracks ("Menstrual Cycle" anybody?).

.

Another problem is Prince.org and the fact that it's broken on many levels (the message editor, the search feature, etc.). Interesting messages get lost among many other messages. Discussions about particular tracks get lost in general threads about releases. Etc.

Reply #369 posted 06/13/19 7:45am

BartVanHemelen

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

I hate to say this, but there are lots of signs indicating that the regular releases won't have much in the way of a booklet, and that only the deluxe edition contains lots of essays and liner notes etc. And that set isn't getting released until late July. And I wouldn't be surprised if much of the contents of that set's liner notes have already been revealed via the interviews with Peggy McCreary and Susannah et al.

It beats me why they won't hire Duane as a consultant for both content and liner note.

.

Wouldn't be surprised if Duane doesn't want that. Would block him from writing more books etc.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #370 posted 06/13/19 8:01am

databank

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

It beats me why they won't hire Duane as a consultant for both content and liner note.

.

Wouldn't be surprised if Duane doesn't want that. Would block him from writing more books etc.

Of course. I was in no way implying that Duane would want that. I don't know whether he would. I just meant that if I was the Estate (despite being a bank as Kares pointed out), I'd want to have both former engineers/collaborators expertise and that sort of hardcore fan, academic researcher expertise.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #371 posted 06/13/19 9:43am

sulls

I'd like to see Neversin consult. Maybe then, we'd get 'tha sheeee-it'! biggrin biggrin biggrin

"I like to watch."
Reply #372 posted 06/13/19 10:14am

Genesia

sulls said:

I'd like to see Neversin consult. Maybe then, we'd get 'tha sheeee-it'! biggrin biggrin biggrin


Yeah - because you can really count on a pedant to get the ball rolling.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #373 posted 06/13/19 10:26am

JoeyLondon

I've made a few adjustment to my Prince Originals Playlist (songs written by Prince, performed by others). In case you wanna listen/follow, critique, fact check, give suggesions, etc. please do! Hopefully more songs will be available for streaming soon. I'll continue to update. Enjoy biggrin

Spotify: http://bit.ly/WrittenByPrince

Apple Music: https://apple.co/2J03Ozi

Reply #374 posted 06/13/19 10:54am

stillwaiting

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

I hate to say this, but there are lots of signs indicating that the regular releases won't have much in the way of a booklet, and that only the deluxe edition contains lots of essays and liner notes etc. And that set isn't getting released until late July. And I wouldn't be surprised if much of the contents of that set's liner notes have already been revealed via the interviews with Peggy McCreary and Susannah et al.

It beats me why they won't hire Duane as a consultant for both content and liner note. And I wish they'd explain in detail what was done to each track in terms of restoration, mix, possible Frankenstein interventions, etc. If they were fully transparant about this, one could disagree with their choices but at least everyone would know what they purchase.

There is a cloud of dysfunction with everything Prince related. Based on the series of awful decisions, not hiring a Prince expert makes perfect sense. The single fact that Londell McMuffin was hired for ANYTHING made me laugh, and it was hysterical when McMuffin had no idea what songs he was negotiating or what the proper deal was. Of course, he actually made some money, or seemingly has... I'm sure those that are working on it have some bizarre idea that it is worth millions, and they are going to release tons of multi-million selling albums. Sure, us diehards will buy everything, but there is no cash cow. Only a careful, well-thought out plan will bring profit from the vault. I feel qualified to be a consultant, but I'm honest enough to say Duane would be more qualified, as well as tons of org members who would be as well. Still, I'm selfish enough to think I'd be an awesome hire...I'd be willing to do nothing but work on the vault 8 hours a day....

What is real sad, is the historical significance of the vault may just end up getting lost in all the madness.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #375 posted 06/13/19 10:58am

stillwaiting

carlos00 said:

After seeing the different opinions expressed in the forum by really expert users in this field, I have the feeling that I’m missing something.

The new mixes are giving a lot to talk about, and songs like Holly Rock are not liking in terms of the final mix. Someone who has analyzed it, please, can shed some light on what specific aspects cause that bad impression?

Personally I am enjoying the mix a lot, where the amount of tracks can seem a little chaotic but it is funky as hell. I also appreciate the increase on bass that was usually not common in the recordings of that era.

Thanks

For the most part, it is an awesome release, but since some are bringing up tampering with the recordings, I think it is a distinct possibility. I'd say 55% chance. Still, they could be somewhat unaltered. The record levels are way too high, though. Engineering to follow trends for how 22 year olds want their music brickwalled and distorted to death makes no sense. 95% of the sales will be 40 and up.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #376 posted 06/13/19 11:10am

stillwaiting

rdhull said:

Strive said:

It's strange. Within a hour of Originals releasing, there were people dismissing the entire release. So many gems have dropped in the bootleg scene since Prince died and it's all "yawn, what else you got?" the same day it comes out.

Do people not give a disc multiple listens anymore? lol

(That said, Michael Howe is a dope who's in way over his head but it seems like he's learning while on the job. Let's hope he continues to grow.)

They should release hardly anything because no matter what, people don't appreciate it. Folks were clamoring for the long vers of Computer Blue and it gets release and folks are on to the next one etc. It doesn't matter if it's Howe or BVH who was charging the release content. Once it's released, folk are like you said, on to the next one without giving songs or albums time to marinate or be appreciated. I've meant to make a post about this for quit some time but didnt have the cajones as I knew Id get locked and mocked lol. Prince fans are the absolute worse. And this has nothing much to do with whats out there and in what quality etc. They could release Wally in its original version and a week later people would be whining about 'whats next gimme gimme" lol.

One thing is for sure. They will likely make sure they NEVER fill up a cd with 79 or so minutes. And they will likely do a hack job of mastering. It is what it is. I'm happy with Originals, but it could have been better. Industry types know legacy artist's fans buy box sets, but the estate and the powers that be do not know this.

[Edited 6/13/19 11:35am]

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #377 posted 06/13/19 11:19am

Genesia

stillwaiting said:

rdhull said:

They should release hardly anything because no matter what, people don't appreciate it. Folks were clamoring for the long vers of Computer Blue and it gets release and folks are on to the next one etc. It doesn't matter if it's Howe or BVH who was charging the release content. Once it's released, folk are like you said, on to the next one without giving songs or albums time to marinate or be appreciated. I've meant to make a post about this for quit some time but didnt have the cajones as I knew Id get locked and mocked lol. Prince fans are the absolute worse. And this has nothing much to do with whats out there and in what quality etc. They could release Wally in its original version and a week later people would be whining about 'whats next gimme gimme" lol.

One thing is for sure. They will likely make sure they NEVER fill up a cd with 79 or so minutes. And they will likely do a hack job of mastering. It is what it is. I'm happy with Originals, but it could have been better. Industry types know legacy artists buy box sets, but the estate and the powers that be do not know this.


"Legacy artists" don't buy anything when they're dead.

(Or did you mean something else?)

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #378 posted 06/13/19 11:34am

stillwaiting

Genesia said:

stillwaiting said:

One thing is for sure. They will likely make sure they NEVER fill up a cd with 79 or so minutes. And they will likely do a hack job of mastering. It is what it is. I'm happy with Originals, but it could have been better. Industry types know legacy artists buy box sets, but the estate and the powers that be do not know this.


"Legacy artists" don't buy anything when they're dead.

(Or did you mean something else?)



Good catch. I meant Legacy artist's fans spend tons on box sets. I can't stand Pink Floyd, but their box sets did good numbers, as did Paul McCartney, U2, etc.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #379 posted 06/13/19 9:00pm

Hamad

SquirrelMeat said:

I’m really enjoying it. For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Sure it’s really annoying they put the edited versions on there (I’m guessing this is deliberate for future sales, as there is room on the disc), and the vocal mix is a little low on tracks like Manic and Make-up, but I doubt that would be a deliberate act by the engineers/producers.

But the vocals on You’re My Love, Noon Rendezvous and Gigolos are a delight.

As for the ‘Frankenstein’ version argument, it’s too early to tell if this is even an issue. This issue would go away if estate simply provided technical information, plus, untouched versions may come at a later date, in more hardcore comprehensive sets.

If you look at various mainstream archive releases, it’s not uncommon for parts from various takes or mix downs to be combined; The most obvious being the Beatles anthology. They made a better version using individual unreleased takes and mixes and combining them. But they were clear in the notes what they had done.

If you know the original take/demo versions (For example, ‘You’ve got to hide your love away’ or ‘Strawberry Fields’), then you know the result on Anthology is superior, but it’s not an archival record of ‘as it was recorded’. Interestingly, it was the band members that were happy to sign off these alternatives. Who’s to say Prince wouldn’t have been the same?

Equally, I didn’t have a problem with the MJ’s Xscape approach, because they made the originals available.

Both these approaches are fine, if they are up front about it.

I love the information ‘elite’ collectors have provided on the org over the years, but I do think their argument out legacy destruction is misguided. I think judgement gets clouded when the exclusivity of their ‘stash’ is eroded by official releases.

Lets take ‘Manic Monday’ as an example. The new album’s purpose is to let people hear Prince singing the song he gave to the Bangles. It was never sold as ‘here’s the demo/take 1/final take’. The job of the producers is to make it as sonically pleasing as possible, not to pander to completists who want to argue over the one (and often incomplete) reference point they have.

Ironically, the best way to ensure that the labels put stuff out untouched without the wraith of the fan base, is to ensure the fan base already knows what it should sound like, and not hoarded by a few. Releasing snippets to try and prove a point doesn’t prove a label wrong. It’s a pretentious assumption that their version of events, and how the archive should be handled, must be correct, and sounds more like a school yard argument.

If you want people to know how original mixes are sounded, let them free, rather than lecture those who enjoy what’s put out.

I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.

The stance is hypocritical. The people who supplied and handle the elite material are breaking the very code Prince expected people to uphold. But when the table is turned, and the exclusivity of their stash is threatened, they get defensive.

If the ‘legacy’ is being eroded, the elite traders are as much to blame as the estate, as they are criticising from the shadows, rather than blowing the issue out in the open.

If an elite trader tells me a track has been altered but won’t share it; verses a bootlegger, and now, the estate who will provide me with ‘a’ version, I’m going to side with the bootlegger and estate every time.

One side is giving me a rant, the other is giving me Prince music. I’ll side with the music.

Posts like this one revive my love for this place clapping thank you for saying that!

Oh and "Wouldn't U Love To Love Me" was thee BIGGEST surprise. He really sounded happy in that one and dare I say, its becoming a tie with the original too

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...
Reply #380 posted 06/13/19 9:03pm

ufoclub

Genesia said:

 



Kares said:


 



udo said:


 


.


Simply compare to the Bangles' CD version or the ones on youtube.


The originals version sounds darker, the Bangles' version is a bit brighter.


This is also true w.r.t. the drums.


So the `Originals team` (hello Michael!) did not try to match the sound of the released version or at least they failed here.



.
Why would one compare the Bangles' version to Prince's? You do know the Bangles recorded their own version, right? And even if they reused any parts of Prince's recording, Prince had nothing to do with their production.




lol


 


Priceless.



Wiki shows these credits for the instrumentation of the Bangles version (which sounds little like Prince’s style of mixing and voicing to me)

Susanna Hoffs: lead vocals and backing vocals, acoustic guitar
Vicki Peterson: electric guitar and backing vocals
Michael Steele: bass and backing vocals
Debbi Peterson: drums and backing vocals
Prince: synthesizers and piano
Reply #381 posted 06/14/19 1:21am

yello1

https://rep.repubblica.it/pwa/generale/2019/06/10/news/prince-228462979/

It´s for subscribers ... I suppose M. Howe will tell the same as always ... does someone have it?

Reply #382 posted 06/14/19 1:31am

databank

ufoclub said:

Genesia said:

 



Kares said:


 



udo said:


 


.


Simply compare to the Bangles' CD version or the ones on youtube.


The originals version sounds darker, the Bangles' version is a bit brighter.


This is also true w.r.t. the drums.


So the `Originals team` (hello Michael!) did not try to match the sound of the released version or at least they failed here.



.
Why would one compare the Bangles' version to Prince's? You do know the Bangles recorded their own version, right? And even if they reused any parts of Prince's recording, Prince had nothing to do with their production.




lol


 


Priceless.



Wiki shows these credits for the instrumentation of the Bangles version (which sounds little like Prince’s style of mixing and voicing to me)

Susanna Hoffs: lead vocals and backing vocals, acoustic guitar
Vicki Peterson: electric guitar and backing vocals
Michael Steele: bass and backing vocals
Debbi Peterson: drums and backing vocals
Prince: synthesizers and piano

The song's history is well documented. The Bangles took the Prince basic tracking, overdubbed it and only kept a few parts of the original recording. Full credits are on Pvault including the name of the Bangles produced who supervised that final version. Prince wasn't involved.
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #383 posted 06/14/19 3:03am

RODSERLING

Does anybody know what the cinematic version of Nothing Compares 2U is?
.
They should have included this in the deluxe edition, with other versions of other songs.
Reply #384 posted 06/14/19 3:09am

databank

BTW, if they were gonna include LTWBD anyway and go as far as 1991, am I the only one to think it'd have been funny as hell to include P's mix of Donald Trump (Black Version)? I mean seriously, they have to put that out while Trump is president lol lol lol

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #385 posted 06/14/19 6:14am

PURPLEIZED3121

Kares said:

databank said:

It beats me why they won't hire Duane as a consultant for both content and liner note. And I wish they'd explain in detail what was done to each track in terms of restoration, mix, possible Frankenstein interventions, etc. If they were fully transparant about this, one could disagree with their choices but at least everyone would know what they purchase.

.

Because they are a bank. They are suits who don't know anything about music nor do they care much. I keep having to remind people (not you, but many others) that Michael Howe is NOT running the estate, Comerica Bank does. Even the heirs aren't getting much say in what's going on, let alone outside experts.

.

The administrators' mindset is most probably something like "it's a massive estate of this Purple Rain guy, with a huge inventory of tapes none of us know much about and it would cost a fortune to pay experts to explore, so let's just try to find something that can be marketed as from the same era as Purple Rain and make some quick buck".

.

not too sure if I agree with you on this one. The marketing campaign has actually been excellent which suggests those involved at least have some grasp of what is required.

Reply #386 posted 06/14/19 6:43am

BartVanHemelen

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

not too sure if I agree with you on this one. The marketing campaign has actually been excellent which suggests those involved at least have some grasp of what is required.

.

Marketing = Warners. But it does look like they got a decent budget for it (in-person interviews with Peggy McCreary et al., ads in prominent places,...).

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #387 posted 06/14/19 7:24am

ufoclub

databank said:

ufoclub said:



Wiki shows these credits for the instrumentation of the Bangles version (which sounds little like Prince’s style of mixing and voicing to me)

Susanna Hoffs: lead vocals and backing vocals, acoustic guitar
Vicki Peterson: electric guitar and backing vocals
Michael Steele: bass and backing vocals
Debbi Peterson: drums and backing vocals
Prince: synthesizers and piano

The song's history is well documented. The Bangles took the Prince basic tracking, overdubbed it and only kept a few parts of the original recording. Full credits are on Pvault including the name of the Bangles produced who supervised that final version. Prince wasn't involved.


I guessed this just from hearing it on the radio in 1986! Except I figured they had used NONE of the actual Prince tracks.
[Edited 6/14/19 7:31am]
Reply #388 posted 06/14/19 7:27am

TrevorAyer

this is a nice collection of good and interesting songs that do NOT belong together .. some quirky intro like "dearly beloved" or "dear dad" is missing from a difinitive prince album .. which makes this a compilation and not an album .. the lack of consistant sound quality does not help either

my hope is that this is for purposes of introducing us to more era centric expanded editions .. my fear is that this is the best they could come up with as a cohesive sellable album .. and we are in for more releases built from scraps (when we know there are fully mastered and sequenced albums ready to go)

You're my love has a poor vocal performance I doubt prince would want in the public ... Wouldn't U love 2 love me belongs on an earlier comp .. manic monday, love thy will be done sound too good compared to the other demos .. they could be singles to promote albums better suited to their era and sonic quality .. they are a bit wasted on this comp

nothing compares 2 u sounds a bit out of place due to drum tone not really being radio friendly .. tho enjoyable enough in the context of the family period

what remains all works well together .. even the later shiela songs fit with the early jungle love vibe enough not to distract ... there was a missed opportunity to include screams of passion .. which would have tied NC2U to the set better .. and also has a bit of a potential single quality to it

my current play list

Sex Shooter

Make Up

100 MPH

Gigiloos

Jungle Love

Noon Rendezvous

glamourous life

dear michaelangelo

holly rock

manic monday

screams of passion

nothing compares 2 u


hopefully the extended and raw versions are planned for the deluxe expanded sets and this is really just a teaser for bigger releases .. if we are just getting one of these wierd compilations every year its gonna be rough to make a cohesive almost prince like album out of whatever they give us

come to think of it .. road house garden was already released so we might not ever get that album as intended ... record store day would be a great way to release some of prince intended mock up albums that never occurred .. supposedly there are a couple time and vanity albums plus roadhouse garden camille dream factory .. the original crystal ball .. a couple of revolution albums have been alluded to ...


i guess in general I love all these songs but wish they would try to make compilations more era centric and cohesive and give it more of a prince album feel .. i think they would make more money that way too ... like throw love thy will be done on with some graffiti diamonds out takes .. use love as the single to promote basically a new prince album .. do that with each of these songs .. having jungle love as the public selling point on an album of time era prince out takes has great public / hardcore fan crossover potential ... throwing all these songs on one album is like shooting their whole load on one record as far as wider public interest goes ... each of these well known songs should be used to lead the general public to an era of music they have not heard .. people who love manic monday might not be into sheila e or the time .. but they might love an album of around the world in a day out takes

Reply #389 posted 06/14/19 11:00am

stillwaiting

databank said:

BTW, if they were gonna include LTWBD anyway and go as far as 1991, am I the only one to think it'd have been funny as hell to include P's mix of Donald Trump (Black Version)? I mean seriously, they have to put that out while Trump is president lol lol lol

I first begged Morris to play Donald Trump(Black Version) in 1997, then in 1998, then in 2004. In 2016, I begged him NEVER to play it. This time Morris Ignored me smile

_________________________________________________________________________________

Clarification: though I would love to hear the song live, obviously it will never happen...so Morris ignoring me simply meant, he acted as if I was not in the room...which I probably deserved, but I can say of all the people in the Purple family, Morris has always been very kind to me, not even the slightest bad moment.)

[Edited 6/14/19 11:10am]

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #390 posted 06/14/19 11:36am

stillwaiting

TrevorAyer said:


hopefully the extended and raw versions are planned for the deluxe expanded sets and this is really just a teaser for bigger releases .. if we are just getting one of these wierd compilations every year its gonna be rough to make a cohesive almost prince like album out of whatever they give us


In a perfect world, yes. Since the average age of Prince fans is not 35 and under, you would think they would just try to release everything to tap out the market before everyone is too old to care. I would simply propose a glorious 50 disc box set with everything unaltered, and then perhaps extra care in producing a 10 disc best of, and 4 disc highlights with everything still not remixed to death, but remastered at the right volumes. As much as I'd like a 50 disc set with remastered audio, it is not practical. I mean I'd love 9 versions of We Can Funk, but really only about 3 of them deserve special attention. I can live with passable quality if it means getting everything..

Originals is great, but some are not essential. Many better outtakes remain unreleased, which is sad, but the powers that be have no true well-thought out plan that involves the very fan base willing to pay for the goods. sad

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #391 posted 06/14/19 12:43pm

jfenster

wouldnt they realize that Prince wouldnt want anyone tinkering with his unfinished products?

so why do it?? did they think it would make the tracks sound better?

Reply #392 posted 06/14/19 12:46pm

feeluupp

BartVanHemelen said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

not too sure if I agree with you on this one. The marketing campaign has actually been excellent which suggests those involved at least have some grasp of what is required.

.

Marketing = Warners. But it does look like they got a decent budget for it (in-person interviews with Peggy McCreary et al., ads in prominent places,...).

Yet not one single was released so far... lol

Reply #393 posted 06/14/19 12:56pm

djThunderfunk

stillwaiting said:

TrevorAyer said:


hopefully the extended and raw versions are planned for the deluxe expanded sets and this is really just a teaser for bigger releases .. if we are just getting one of these wierd compilations every year its gonna be rough to make a cohesive almost prince like album out of whatever they give us


In a perfect world, yes. Since the average age of Prince fans is not 35 and under, you would think they would just try to release everything to tap out the market before everyone is too old to care. I would simply propose a glorious 50 disc box set with everything unaltered, and then perhaps extra care in producing a 10 disc best of, and 4 disc highlights with everything still not remixed to death, but remastered at the right volumes. As much as I'd like a 50 disc set with remastered audio, it is not practical. I mean I'd love 9 versions of We Can Funk, but really only about 3 of them deserve special attention. I can live with passable quality if it means getting everything..

Originals is great, but some are not essential. Many better outtakes remain unreleased, which is sad, but the powers that be have no true well-thought out plan that involves the very fan base willing to pay for the goods. sad


Are you happy with the mastering of Originals? IMO, it's brickwalled so bad that I'm already wanting a remaster.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #394 posted 06/14/19 1:19pm

thedoorkeeper

feeluupp said:


Yet not one single was released so far...  lol


Releasing a single now would drive sales to Tidal. Perhaps once the physical copy hits the streets WB will release a single or a video.
Reply #395 posted 06/14/19 2:01pm

stillwaiting

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

In a perfect world, yes. Since the average age of Prince fans is not 35 and under, you would think they would just try to release everything to tap out the market before everyone is too old to care. I would simply propose a glorious 50 disc box set with everything unaltered, and then perhaps extra care in producing a 10 disc best of, and 4 disc highlights with everything still not remixed to death, but remastered at the right volumes. As much as I'd like a 50 disc set with remastered audio, it is not practical. I mean I'd love 9 versions of We Can Funk, but really only about 3 of them deserve special attention. I can live with passable quality if it means getting everything..

Originals is great, but some are not essential. Many better outtakes remain unreleased, which is sad, but the powers that be have no true well-thought out plan that involves the very fan base willing to pay for the goods. sad


Are you happy with the mastering of Originals? IMO, it's brickwalled so bad that I'm already wanting a remaster.

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #396 posted 06/14/19 2:30pm

djThunderfunk

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:


Are you happy with the mastering of Originals? IMO, it's brickwalled so bad that I'm already wanting a remaster.

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.


I can raise the levels of those mastered too quiet. Once something is brickwalled nothing can be done to restore the distorted sound.

I'll take the original "too quiet" Purple Rain over the "worst brickwall EVER" remaster every. single. day.

I playied the PR remaster once, and will never listen to it again. That album is just disc 2 & 3 (+ the DVD) to me. Disc one is wasted plastic.


"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #397 posted 06/14/19 3:49pm

Doozer

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.


I can raise the levels of those mastered too quiet. Once something is brickwalled nothing can be done to restore the distorted sound.

I'll take the original "too quiet" Purple Rain over the "worst brickwall EVER" remaster every. single. day.

I playied the PR remaster once, and will never listen to it again. That album is just disc 2 & 3 (+ the DVD) to me. Disc one is wasted plastic.



co-sign - all disk 1 of Purple Rain Deluxe did for me was show me that the CD I already had was indeed great as-is and only got crapped on by the "remastering" process.

I'm bummed that Originals is another battle into the loudness wars, but as it's the best quality we've got of the included tracks, it's easier to overlook as there's not another choice in the library, so to speak.

Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
Reply #398 posted 06/14/19 3:53pm

stillwaiting

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.


I can raise the levels of those mastered too quiet. Once something is brickwalled nothing can be done to restore the distorted sound.

I'll take the original "too quiet" Purple Rain over the "worst brickwall EVER" remaster every. single. day.

I playied the PR remaster once, and will never listen to it again. That album is just disc 2 & 3 (+ the DVD) to me. Disc one is wasted plastic.


I copied the 2009 Vinyl to cdr, and it sounds pretty good, but I think the original cd with slightly raised record levels is the best sounding. I am going to have a go at using a different process with the 2009 Vinyl again...and hope, but I think my original 1984 vinyl, which I was lucky enough to get before the release date sounds better, scratches, pops and all.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #399 posted 06/14/19 4:00pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

I’m ready for Original 2 already. Hopefully next year .
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #400 posted 06/14/19 4:30pm

RODSERLING

Doozer said:

 



djThunderfunk said:


 



stillwaiting said:


 


 


Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful. 




I can raise the levels of those mastered too quiet. Once something is brickwalled nothing can be done to restore the distorted sound.

I'll take the original "too quiet" Purple Rain over the "worst brickwall EVER" remaster every. single. day.

I playied the PR remaster once, and will never listen to it again. That album is just disc 2 & 3 (+ the DVD) to me. Disc one is wasted plastic.





co-sign - all disk 1 of Purple Rain Deluxe did for me was show me that the CD I already had was indeed great as-is and only got crapped on by the "remastering" process.

I'm bummed that Originals is another battle into the loudness wars, but as it's the best quality we've got of the included tracks, it's easier to overlook as there's not another choice in the library, so to speak.



Maybe the vinyl version will be better
Reply #401 posted 06/14/19 4:36pm

RODSERLING

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

I’m ready for Original 2 already. Hopefully next year .


Howe said it isn't scheduled at all, unless Originals sells very,very well... which is highly unlikely.
.
It is released first on Tidal, so it won't make the charts for two weeks because the audience is lower than Spotify.
.
Then most of the people won't buy the physical version, or will wait for the extra deluxe version for 12 pages of booklet ( like me)
.
So I don't expect this to make BB 100, this release is too scattered for an already niche audience.

Moreover, all the hits written for other artists are there.

.
Frankly, they could have done a single to promote it on YouTube and MTV with archives footage, just like NC2U last year.
Reply #402 posted 06/14/19 4:44pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

^
I’m still ready for it
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #403 posted 06/14/19 5:12pm

BartVanHemelen

Another Michael Howe interview, this time in French: http://www.muziq.fr/couli...hael-howe/

.

I first developed a first list of songs on which Prince was involved as a songwriter, instrumentalist, arranger or producer for other artists. I reviewed about 262 Vault titles to end up with the 15 present in Originals .

.

[...]

.

Most were available on 1/2 inch analogue tapes and were mostly rough mixes. Others were on cassettes, but some of them were not good enough from a sound point of view. So we made a new mix on multitrack tapes based on the cassette specifications. In the end, the listener can hear what was on these tapes with optimal sound.

.

[...]

.

Indeed, this title, which Prince recorded towards the end of 1981 on a console 16-tracks, does not have the sound quality of other titles present on this album. We have chosen to include it in Originals because many versions of this song circulate for many years in the circle of collectors, but the one we propose has never seen the day. The other interest came from the fact that this is the very first version of a song that was not going to be released until 1987

.


[Edited 6/14/19 17:16pm]

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #404 posted 06/14/19 5:39pm

djThunderfunk

RODSERLING said:

Doozer said:


co-sign - all disk 1 of Purple Rain Deluxe did for me was show me that the CD I already had was indeed great as-is and only got crapped on by the "remastering" process.

I'm bummed that Originals is another battle into the loudness wars, but as it's the best quality we've got of the included tracks, it's easier to overlook as there's not another choice in the library, so to speak.

Maybe the vinyl version will be better


Amen! I'm buying the Target CD on Friday and then coming here to look for reviews from other people about the vinyl. If it does indeed sound better, not so much brickwall/loudness war, then I'll hop on down to my local wrecka stow to pick a copy up.


And probably still won't have liner notes unless they wised up and realized that detailed information about recordings should be included with EVERY release (even digital) not just a bonus on "deluxe" versions.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #405 posted 06/14/19 5:47pm

antonb

didnt think the vinyl was out till around 20th july

Reply #406 posted 06/14/19 5:54pm

djThunderfunk

antonb said:

didnt think the vinyl was out till around 20th july


Really? I didn't realize that. So, people that are buying the deluxe have to wait or double dip?

EDIT: Yeah, you're right. That's some bullshit right there. One more reason to absolutely NOT buy the deluxe. Guess i'll never get the liner notes. sad


[Edited 6/14/19 17:58pm]

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #407 posted 06/14/19 5:59pm

stillwaiting

djThunderfunk said:

RODSERLING said:

Doozer said: Maybe the vinyl version will be better


Amen! I'm buying the Target CD on Friday and then coming here to look for reviews from other people about the vinyl. If it does indeed sound better, not so much brickwall/loudness war, then I'll hop on down to my local wrecka stow to pick a copy up.


And probably still won't have liner notes unless they wised up and realized that detailed information about recordings should be included with EVERY release (even digital) not just a bonus on "deluxe" versions.

Anybody that used Londell McMuffin in ANY part of the process likely will not wise up. Releases that appeal to die hards over 40 Brickwalled to death with too loud mastering, and poorly written liner notes...don't expect much. I am also buying the Target CD, but not expecting better mastering. If the Vinyl is confirmed better sounding, I will buy, but it is VERY unllikely the Vinyl would be much different.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #408 posted 06/14/19 6:10pm

djThunderfunk

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:


Amen! I'm buying the Target CD on Friday and then coming here to look for reviews from other people about the vinyl. If it does indeed sound better, not so much brickwall/loudness war, then I'll hop on down to my local wrecka stow to pick a copy up.


And probably still won't have liner notes unless they wised up and realized that detailed information about recordings should be included with EVERY release (even digital) not just a bonus on "deluxe" versions.

Anybody that used Londell McMuffin in ANY part of the process likely will not wise up. Releases that appeal to die hards over 40 Brickwalled to death with too loud mastering, and poorly written liner notes...don't expect much. I am also buying the Target CD, but not expecting better mastering. If the Vinyl is confirmed better sounding, I will buy, but it is VERY unllikely the Vinyl would be much different.


I expect the CD to be the exact same mastering as the digital.

I bought the new 3121 vinyl recently and to my ears it sounds better than the CD, not as much "brickwall". So, with Originals, I'm hoping...

But as I said. I'll wait to read a review or two of the vinyl before I pay the extra cash. Unfortunately I'll have to check who's doing the review, some people here seem to think the mastering on this digital release sounds good, so I'll have to watch whose opinion I trust. wink

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #409 posted 06/14/19 9:37pm

WhisperingDandelions

I'll never understand the "too quiet--all 80s CDs sorely in need of remastering" crowd. Are these just super-passionate fans of randomized playlists or full discographies on shuffle mode? I mean why not just... turn the CDs up?

I mean, uh, I've never done any quantative metrics, but years of listening to "modern remasters" have shown me it's a fate I wouldn't wish on the worst album of all time. I know good remasters exist, but we gottta be talking, what, less than 10%, if that? Why roll the dice?

Reply #410 posted 06/14/19 11:20pm

AvocadosMax

I canceled my Amazon preorder just so I can find out what that “Cinematic mix” is all about. Is it the version with Claire Fisher strings? Are they planning on including this track on that Prince musical that’s in works and they want to use this as promotion probably 3 years before it comes out?
Reply #411 posted 06/14/19 11:49pm

fabriziovenerandi

An answer to Prince.org's critics?

Have you made any editing on these titles?
No, and it's even the opposite in the case of "Baby You're A Trip", the version that was running in bootleg for years was not complete, unlike the one we hear in Originals .

Listening to Originals , we can see that some titles sound better than their versions officially released at the time.

Yes, I agree, and that's thanks to the sound engineer Bernie Grundman , who had worked a lot with Prince and who, in my opinion, is the best remastering specialist in this business. We try to work with the maximum of people who were around Prince at the time and luckily, all these people want to collaborate on these new projects.

Reply #412 posted 06/15/19 12:53am

Neversin

fabriziovenerandi said:

An answer to Prince.org's critics?

Have you made any editing on these titles?
No, and it's even the opposite in the case of "Baby You're A Trip", the version that was running in bootleg for years was not complete, unlike the one we hear in Originals .


Bullshit, it is well known Prince created the version people know from the bootlegs, let Jill hear it and then briefly considered that version for himself for potential release...
After she heared it he started working on it for her, so that means her recorded vocals was them already working on it for her, so the "complete" version is her released version, Prince's complete version is the version he let her hear after recording it...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #413 posted 06/15/19 2:04am

fabriziovenerandi

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.

Reply #414 posted 06/15/19 2:13am

TheSilentMikey

fabriziovenerandi said:

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.

But it has been documented MANY times by archivers and it is a FACT that he first recorded his version with his own background vocals (you can find its edited version on bootlegs) and he made it listen to Jill afterwards and THEN she recorded his vocals and background vox for her album.

This has been known for years. So unfortunately no, Howe isn’t always a reliable source. Especially when we have proof of the contrary.

"Don't need no Reefer. Don't need Cocaine. Purple Music does the same to my brain."
Reply #415 posted 06/15/19 2:38am

Kares

fabriziovenerandi said:

An answer to Prince.org's critics?

Have you made any editing on these titles?
No, and it's even the opposite in the case of "Baby You're A Trip", the version that was running in bootleg for years was not complete, unlike the one we hear in Originals .

Listening to Originals , we can see that some titles sound better than their versions officially released at the time.

Yes, I agree, and that's thanks to the sound engineer Bernie Grundman , who had worked a lot with Prince and who, in my opinion, is the best remastering specialist in this business. We try to work with the maximum of people who were around Prince at the time and luckily, all these people want to collaborate on these new projects.

.

Bernie Grundman, as far as I know, has never worked WITH Prince in person. He is a mastering engineer, not a recording/mixing engineer. He has worked on Prince material, sure, he (or his team) has mastered several of the Prince master tapes that were sent to him.

.

The newly released versions that sound very different to the old releases sound different mainly due to them being different (new) mixes, so I'm not sure why doesn't Howe talk about that part and why does he imply that it is due to the mastering? It's not.

.

And yes, they've done editing too...

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #416 posted 06/15/19 4:32am

udo

WhisperingDandelions said:

I mean why not just... turn the CDs up?

.

Did you miss the Loudness War? Even Bart mentioned them on the org!

Compressing shit to the max does not make the music more enjoyable.

Dynamics are part of the music, part of the experience.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #417 posted 06/15/19 5:48am

TheEnglishGent

udo said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

I mean why not just... turn the CDs up?

.

Did you miss the Loudness War? Even Bart mentioned them on the org!

Compressing shit to the max does not make the music more enjoyable.

Dynamics are part of the music, part of the experience.

I suspect they have. If you read their post they are saying they don't really want remasters and are talking about using the volume control on their amp.

RIP sad
Reply #418 posted 06/15/19 8:49am

Neversin

fabriziovenerandi said:

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.


This is laughable... Howe wasn't even around when the recording logs were mulled over in the 1990's... You have no clue... And I don't do bootlegs from "unverified sources"...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #419 posted 06/15/19 9:29am

JorisE73

fabriziovenerandi said:

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.


Oh dear, here they come again sad
Hopefully this thread won't become another 'bash the guy with the info because we're ignorant/jealous' fest like those other threads with useful info.

Reply #420 posted 06/15/19 9:36am

databank

Neversin said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.


This is laughable... Howe wasn't even around when the recording logs were mulled over in the 1990's... You have no clue... And I don't do bootlegs from "unverified sources"...

Neversin.

I would add that one argument that often came since the beginning of this debate is "how do we know what we know, i.e. we can't know anything for sure, and those who claim they know things just made it up based on vague clues or because they have an agenda". This is an argument I also hear often when people question scientific knowledge or historical events, and there is a wild belief today that the things we collectively "know" were just arbitrarily decided by researchers or people with an agenda when, in fact, the history of ideas and the protocol of most research, whether in science, history or other fields, is documented for all to see.

.

There are, in fact, many things that we know, and we do know how we know them. Knowledge is always subject to questioning in light of new, solid, evidence when such new evidence surfaces, but unless such a thing happen, solid knowledge can be considered solid.

.

In Prince's case, Duane's book is a prime example of a sourced research, where you can actually see how Duane found each and every bit of information he's found, and where he's very clear about whether something is can be considered certain or whether he only has partial, uncertain or incomplete information.

.

I won't comment on Michael Howe's interview now, as I said earlier I don't feel comfortable calling people liars and there is no need for me to comment until I can find additional information. If and when I (or others) do, maybe we can assess the truth of Mr. Howe's claims with more certainty.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #421 posted 06/15/19 9:40am

TrcikyChristopher

Neversin said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

An answer to Prince.org's critics?


Bullshit, it is well known Prince created the version people know from the bootlegs, let Jill hear it and then briefly considered that version for himself for potential release...
After she heared it he started working on it for her, so that means her recorded vocals was them already working on it for her, so the "complete" version is her released version, Prince's complete version is the version he let her hear after recording it...

Neversin.

Exactly.

What annoys me the most is that these are not P's original background vocals that have that amnazing high F#harmony during the chorus that is totally missing from this version.

For some reason, Jill's backup vocals are lacking the energy and take the soul away from what he originally did. Her backup vocals are mixed way louder than his and it sounds like it was just one of the takes before she added her final lead vocals (before the entire track was reworked and pverproduced for her release).

Reply #422 posted 06/15/19 9:56am

Ugot2shakesumthin

I would imagine that without new music, live concerts or promotion from the man himself, that all releases from here on in will be low key affairs and done with the intention of merely keeping him in the eye of generations to come. With making back whatever costs to package these things being enough.

Having said that, there will surely be event productions of sorts whether it be Broadway plays, biopics, or something on between that will bring about enough of a spotlight to have another repackaging enter the Billboard top 100.

It might be wise to keep archiving but keep some other gems for a bigger event productions like biopics or documentaries where the music could be packaged within a bigger tent pole for maximum return on investment.
[Edited 6/15/19 9:58am]
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #423 posted 06/15/19 10:04am

love2thenines2003

Neversin said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.


This is laughable... Howe wasn't even around when the recording logs were mulled over in the 1990's... You have no clue... And I don't do bootlegs from "unverified sources"...

Neversin.

@Fabriziovenerandi ....just to let u know that Neversin is well known by serious fans as to be a reliable and trusful source....he is not a bootlegger but a collector (and more than this ) who was in the 90's very close from Prince's Vault....he is too very informative ...sorry to be fully disagree with u & i'm not the only one here to think in such way !!

Reply #424 posted 06/15/19 1:46pm

fabriziovenerandi

databank said:

Neversin said:


This is laughable... Howe wasn't even around when the recording logs were mulled over in the 1990's... You have no clue... And I don't do bootlegs from "unverified sources"...

Neversin.

In Prince's case, Duane's book is a prime example of a sourced research, where you can actually see how Duane found each and every bit of information he's found, and where he's very clear about whether something is can be considered certain or whether he only has partial, uncertain or incomplete information.

.

I won't comment on Michael Howe's interview now, as I said earlier I don't feel comfortable calling people liars and there is no need for me to comment until I can find additional information. If and when I (or others) do, maybe we can assess the truth of Mr. Howe's claims with more certainty.

.

I would not like to have been misunderstood (translating is not easy). It is true what the databank said, every construction of knowledge is such until it is contradicted by new scientifically verifiable knowledge. And I don't want to question what Neversin put together. My point is that

.

a) the "scientifically verifiable knowledge" in this case are the tapes, the vault. All the rest are reconstructions, however precious, that have been made by deducing information from different sources whose reliability is obviously attributable to every single person. But at the moment only one person has access to the "scientifically verifiable knowledge", or Howe.

.

So, or Howe is lying, or some of these sources and knowledge cataloged for years, are wrong.

.

b) I know that this is not a popular opinion and I have already written about it in the past with databank, I am glad that Estate is letting out albums with the spirit of keeping alive the pleasure of listening to Prince, and they are not producing songs archives for collectors or archivists of Prince recordings.

.

I believe that who produces a Prince record today has the responsibility and the right, for example, to decide when and where to put a fade out to finish a song that in its entirety would kill the album. They are arbitrary choices that will still displease someone. If Howe really had used Prince's voice and Jill Jones's vocals, mixing two different works in progress, to get a song closer to the idea of ​​the finished song, I think he would have done well. It is no more wrong, I mean, to publish a truncated, unfinished song, sketched that Prince, however, had decided not to release.

.

f.

[Edited 6/15/19 23:08pm]

Reply #425 posted 06/15/19 7:46pm

cb70

TrcikyChristopher said:

Neversin said:


Bullshit, it is well known Prince created the version people know from the bootlegs, let Jill hear it and then briefly considered that version for himself for potential release...
After she heared it he started working on it for her, so that means her recorded vocals was them already working on it for her, so the "complete" version is her released version, Prince's complete version is the version he let her hear after recording it...

Neversin.

Exactly.

What annoys me the most is that these are not P's original background vocals that have that amnazing high F#harmony during the chorus that is totally missing from this version.

For some reason, Jill's backup vocals are lacking the energy and take the soul away from what he originally did. Her backup vocals are mixed way louder than his and it sounds like it was just one of the takes before she added her final lead vocals (before the entire track was reworked and pverproduced for her release).

Is it possible that Prince's original backing vocals were erased when Jill added hers? I'm trying to rationalize why they went with a mixture of Jill and Prince vocal takes if Prince's original backing tracks still existed. If they considered it an artistic choice then they were way wrong.

Reply #426 posted 06/15/19 8:20pm

EddieC

cb70 said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Exactly.

What annoys me the most is that these are not P's original background vocals that have that amnazing high F#harmony during the chorus that is totally missing from this version.

For some reason, Jill's backup vocals are lacking the energy and take the soul away from what he originally did. Her backup vocals are mixed way louder than his and it sounds like it was just one of the takes before she added her final lead vocals (before the entire track was reworked and pverproduced for her release).

Is it possible that Prince's original backing vocals were erased when Jill added hers? I'm trying to rationalize why they went with a mixture of Jill and Prince vocal takes if Prince's original backing tracks still existed. If they considered it an artistic choice then they were way wrong.

God only knows--but my guess is that, for whatever reason, they thought that Prince would use someone else's vocals rather than his own, if he had them recorded. Now, that's complete nonsense, and he routinely used layers of his own vocals rather than having someone else do the backing, even when there were competent singers readily available. And in the final version, he uses Jill behind Jill, which might be seen as support for the idea that he'd want to have the same voice for lead and backing in a Prince version as well. However, as unlikely as it seems to me that he would have ever used Jill's instead of his own to back himself up in this case, someone who wanted to argue for Jill's background could point to his use of her on some of his own released tracks. I really can see people making this choice, if both his and hers were available on the multitracks. It's the wrong choice, in my opinion, but it's not complete insane.

Reply #427 posted 06/15/19 10:54pm

AvocadosMax

I think we’re all just gonna have to get use to inconsistency in sound quality going forward with future releases. Different time periods and damage to some of the master tapes here and there making some tracks sound worse than others is obviously evident. And we all heard about him sometimes recording on broken consoles (i.e “Ballad of Dorothy Parker”) so that’s another aspect too; Prince being in a hurry to get the song out, that he neglects the recording process.
I’m sure for every new release, there’ll be at least one ‘Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me’
Or maybe two or three


Who wants to bet that the master tapes to ‘Purple Rain’ are severely damaged and that’s why they resorted to that shit digital eq of a remaster they served us two years ago?
Reply #428 posted 06/16/19 4:53am

Se7en

AvocadosMax said:

I think we’re all just gonna have to get use to inconsistency in sound quality going forward with future releases. Different time periods and damage to some of the master tapes here and there making some tracks sound worse than others is obviously evident. And we all heard about him sometimes recording on broken consoles (i.e “Ballad of Dorothy Parker”) so that’s another aspect too; Prince being in a hurry to get the song out, that he neglects the recording process. I’m sure for every new release, there’ll be at least one ‘Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me’ Or maybe two or three Who wants to bet that the master tapes to ‘Purple Rain’ are severely damaged and that’s why they resorted to that shit digital eq of a remaster they served us two years ago?


I agree with you on the sound quality of upcoming releases. It's going to be a mixed bag.

I don't agree with you on Purple Rain though. In that case, I think that was Prince himself just doing a shitty "remaster" by turning up all the volume levels, in order to placate WB in 2014 when he signed with them again.

I don't think Wouldn't You Love To Love Me should've made it onto an album the way it sounds. Something like Moonbeam Levels though (even sourced from bootleg or cassette) sounded fine -- or should I say "acceptable" -- to me.

Reply #429 posted 06/16/19 6:31am

AvocadosMax

Se7en said:

 



AvocadosMax said:


I think we’re all just gonna have to get use to inconsistency in sound quality going forward with future releases. Different time periods and damage to some of the master tapes here and there making some tracks sound worse than others is obviously evident. And we all heard about him sometimes recording on broken consoles (i.e “Ballad of Dorothy Parker”) so that’s another aspect too; Prince being in a hurry to get the song out, that he neglects the recording process. I’m sure for every new release, there’ll be at least one ‘Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me’ Or maybe two or three Who wants to bet that the master tapes to ‘Purple Rain’ are severely damaged and that’s why they resorted to that shit digital eq of a remaster they served us two years ago?


I agree with you on the sound quality of upcoming releases. It's going to be a mixed bag.

I don't agree with you on Purple Rain though. In that case, I think that was Prince himself just doing a shitty "remaster" by turning up all the volume levels, in order to placate WB in 2014 when he signed with them again. 

I don't think Wouldn't You Love To Love Me should've made it onto an album the way it sounds. Something like Moonbeam Levels though (even sourced from bootleg or cassette) sounded fine -- or should I say "acceptable" -- to me. 


Yeah you could be right on Purple Rain.
Oh and I learned a new word today, thank you lol

I just hope In A Large Room With No Light ‘86 is in great shape so we can hear it in al its glory someday. They should just get started on the Dream Factory project asap.
Reply #430 posted 06/16/19 7:07am

databank

AvocadosMax said:

Se7en said:


I agree with you on the sound quality of upcoming releases. It's going to be a mixed bag.

I don't agree with you on Purple Rain though. In that case, I think that was Prince himself just doing a shitty "remaster" by turning up all the volume levels, in order to placate WB in 2014 when he signed with them again.

I don't think Wouldn't You Love To Love Me should've made it onto an album the way it sounds. Something like Moonbeam Levels though (even sourced from bootleg or cassette) sounded fine -- or should I say "acceptable" -- to me.

Yeah you could be right on Purple Rain. Oh and I learned a new word today, thank you lol I just hope In A Large Room With No Light ‘86 is in great shape so we can hear it in al its glory someday. They should just get started on the Dream Factory project asap.

An ambitious boxset with all known configurations of DF, Camille and CB could be a wonderful exploration of "the road to SOTT", arguably Prince's most critically acclaimed album of all times, but I can already hear many people on the Org complaining that they're not gonna get ripped off by purchasing 6 duplicates of some songs on various configs on CD. I fear in this day and age, digital is the only reasonable way to release such a project, because then anyone would be free to pick and choose what they want to purchase.

.

This being said, a more commercially viable DF project could simply include all the so far unreleased songs from all known DF configurations on a single album. Oddly enough that'd mean excluding the title track which is already on CB, but we'd still get:

.

It's A Wonderful Day

Big Tall Wall

And That Says What?

Teacher Teacher

In A Large Room With No Light

A Place In Heaven

Witness 4 The Prosecution

All My Dreams

+ Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A and Wendy's Interlude.

.

For good measure, other candidates could be the popular among fans Can't Stop This Felling I Got / Data Bank / We Can Funk / Girl O' My Dreams sessions that were supposedly intended for a DF musical anyway, as well as Power Fantastic complete with intro (being an "orphan song" as it is, and in edited form, on the B-Sides compilations) and even why not P's vocal version of Train while we're at it.

.

Well assembled in terms of tracklist, such a project would be respectful of the spirit of the original DF project, and a nice, tight album that both critics and hardcore fans would be extremely excited with nod

[Edited 6/16/19 7:09am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #431 posted 06/16/19 8:02am

Ugot2shakesumthin

The original versions of “I can’t stop this feeling I got” and “tick tick bang” are so so cool. The originals EXPLODE to life, while the released versions drag on and are lifeless.

I’d love those two properly released as those are the only versions I can listen to.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #432 posted 06/16/19 8:10am

Kares

databank said:

AvocadosMax said:

Se7en said: Yeah you could be right on Purple Rain. Oh and I learned a new word today, thank you lol I just hope In A Large Room With No Light ‘86 is in great shape so we can hear it in al its glory someday. They should just get started on the Dream Factory project asap.

An ambitious boxset with all known configurations of DF, Camille and CB could be a wonderful exploration of "the road to SOTT", arguably Prince's most critically acclaimed album of all times, but I can already hear many people on the Org complaining that they're not gonna get ripped off by purchasing 6 duplicates of some songs on various configs on CD. I fear in this day and age, digital is the only reasonable way to release such a project, because then anyone would be free to pick and choose what they want to purchase.

.

This being said, a more commercially viable DF project could simply include all the so far unreleased songs from all known DF configurations on a single album. Oddly enough that'd mean excluding the title track which is already on CB, but we'd still get:

.

It's A Wonderful Day

Big Tall Wall

And That Says What?

Teacher Teacher

In A Large Room With No Light

A Place In Heaven

Witness 4 The Prosecution

All My Dreams

+ Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A and Wendy's Interlude.

.

For good measure, other candidates could be the popular among fans Can't Stop This Felling I Got / Data Bank / We Can Funk / Girl O' My Dreams sessions that were supposedly intended for a DF musical anyway, as well as Power Fantastic complete with intro (being an "orphan song" as it is, and in edited form, on the B-Sides compilations) and even why not P's vocal version of Train while we're at it.

.

Well assembled in terms of tracklist, such a project would be respectful of the spirit of the original DF project, and a nice, tight album that both critics and hardcore fans would be extremely excited with nod

[Edited 6/16/19 7:09am]

.
I'd much rather get "ripped off" by getting 6 copies of some songs (not all of them would be identical copies), than by being charged £50 for a single album if I want some liner notes to it too.
.
I'd be happy to pay for huge box sets, and there are many examples of huge box sets doing well on the market (Dylan, for example) so they could be profitable IF DONE WELL.
.
But as I always stress: Prince's legacy deserves a great concept and vision, a detailed, professionally researched, long-term plan that goes way beyond the question of what should be released and how.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #433 posted 06/16/19 8:21am

purplewisdom

Jesus!!!

dear michaelangelo is beautiful!!!!!!!

BLESS sHEILA e BUT .pRINCE'S VERSION is amazing. lobve it.

and i love this release.

REST IN PURPLE BROTHER PRINCE!!

"Dead in the middle of Little Italy little did we know
that we riddled some middleman who didn't do diddily"--BP
Reply #434 posted 06/16/19 9:25am

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

An ambitious boxset with all known configurations of DF, Camille and CB could be a wonderful exploration of "the road to SOTT", arguably Prince's most critically acclaimed album of all times, but I can already hear many people on the Org complaining that they're not gonna get ripped off by purchasing 6 duplicates of some songs on various configs on CD. I fear in this day and age, digital is the only reasonable way to release such a project, because then anyone would be free to pick and choose what they want to purchase.

.

This being said, a more commercially viable DF project could simply include all the so far unreleased songs from all known DF configurations on a single album. Oddly enough that'd mean excluding the title track which is already on CB, but we'd still get:

.

It's A Wonderful Day

Big Tall Wall

And That Says What?

Teacher Teacher

In A Large Room With No Light

A Place In Heaven

Witness 4 The Prosecution

All My Dreams

+ Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A and Wendy's Interlude.

.

For good measure, other candidates could be the popular among fans Can't Stop This Felling I Got / Data Bank / We Can Funk / Girl O' My Dreams sessions that were supposedly intended for a DF musical anyway, as well as Power Fantastic complete with intro (being an "orphan song" as it is, and in edited form, on the B-Sides compilations) and even why not P's vocal version of Train while we're at it.

.

Well assembled in terms of tracklist, such a project would be respectful of the spirit of the original DF project, and a nice, tight album that both critics and hardcore fans would be extremely excited with nod

[Edited 6/16/19 7:09am]

.
I'd much rather get "ripped off" by getting 6 copies of some songs (not all of them would be identical copies), than by being charged £50 for a single album if I want some liner notes to it too.
.
I'd be happy to pay for huge box sets, and there are many examples of huge box sets doing well on the market (Dylan, for example) so they could be profitable IF DONE WELL.
.
But as I always stress: Prince's legacy deserves a great concept and vision, a detailed, professionally researched, long-term plan that goes way beyond the question of what should be released and how.
.

Don't tell me. But many people here are holding on to their bucks. See how they blamed Prince 4 not filling the CB CD's to their technical 80 minutes, totally ignoring the fact that P was trying to turn CB into an album, a statement, and that music isn't paid by the minute. See the fuss that was made over Duane rereleasing his book. It was a mere 25 or 30 bucks to spend for the reissue, and I gladly did it, but there was some namecalling. To Duane of all people. On the Org. Nuff said sad

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #435 posted 06/16/19 11:47am

mbdtyler

databank said:

AvocadosMax said:

Se7en said: Yeah you could be right on Purple Rain. Oh and I learned a new word today, thank you lol I just hope In A Large Room With No Light ‘86 is in great shape so we can hear it in al its glory someday. They should just get started on the Dream Factory project asap.

An ambitious boxset with all known configurations of DF, Camille and CB could be a wonderful exploration of "the road to SOTT", arguably Prince's most critically acclaimed album of all times, but I can already hear many people on the Org complaining that they're not gonna get ripped off by purchasing 6 duplicates of some songs on various configs on CD. I fear in this day and age, digital is the only reasonable way to release such a project, because then anyone would be free to pick and choose what they want to purchase.

.

This being said, a more commercially viable DF project could simply include all the so far unreleased songs from all known DF configurations on a single album. Oddly enough that'd mean excluding the title track which is already on CB, but we'd still get:

.

It's A Wonderful Day

Big Tall Wall

And That Says What?

Teacher Teacher

In A Large Room With No Light

A Place In Heaven

Witness 4 The Prosecution

All My Dreams

+ Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A and Wendy's Interlude.

.

For good measure, other candidates could be the popular among fans Can't Stop This Felling I Got / Data Bank / We Can Funk / Girl O' My Dreams sessions that were supposedly intended for a DF musical anyway, as well as Power Fantastic complete with intro (being an "orphan song" as it is, and in edited form, on the B-Sides compilations) and even why not P's vocal version of Train while we're at it.

.

Well assembled in terms of tracklist, such a project would be respectful of the spirit of the original DF project, and a nice, tight album that both critics and hardcore fans would be extremely excited with nod

[Edited 6/16/19 7:09am]

Recently I made a Dream Factory playlist condensing my personal favorite non-SOTT tracks into one album:

1.) Visions / Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A

2.) Dream Factory

3.) Train

4.) In A Large Room With No Light

5.) Wendy (Interlude)

6.) Crystal Ball

7.) Power Fantastic

8.) Sexual Suicide

9.) A Place In Heaven

10.) Witness 4 The Prosecution

11.) Movie Star

12.) Last Heart

13.) All My Dreams

If they're going to release Dream Factory, I hope they do it right, but this is a cool hypothetical one-disc companion to SOTT.

[Edited 6/16/19 11:47am]

[Edited 6/16/19 11:47am]

Reply #436 posted 06/16/19 12:53pm

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.
I'd much rather get "ripped off" by getting 6 copies of some songs (not all of them would be identical copies), than by being charged £50 for a single album if I want some liner notes to it too.
.
I'd be happy to pay for huge box sets, and there are many examples of huge box sets doing well on the market (Dylan, for example) so they could be profitable IF DONE WELL.
.
But as I always stress: Prince's legacy deserves a great concept and vision, a detailed, professionally researched, long-term plan that goes way beyond the question of what should be released and how.
.

Don't tell me. But many people here are holding on to their bucks. See how they blamed Prince 4 not filling the CB CD's to their technical 80 minutes, totally ignoring the fact that P was trying to turn CB into an album, a statement, and that music isn't paid by the minute. See the fuss that was made over Duane rereleasing his book. It was a mere 25 or 30 bucks to spend for the reissue, and I gladly did it, but there was some namecalling. To Duane of all people. On the Org. Nuff said sad

.
I know. sad And Duane's book wasn't even that much, tbh, I think I bought the hardback for about £21 and the paperback for about £15. And I bought the second one happily too as it's a monumental work that shows genuine respect and love for Prince's legacy. And I was happy to do transcribing work for him too, for free and I can hardly wait for the next volumes. If I was his publisher I'd hire 2-3 full-time assistants for him so he could finish more volumes sooner.
.

[Edited 6/17/19 2:53am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #437 posted 06/17/19 3:41am

Vannormal

-

You know...

bisdes all...

more than 260 million galaxies out there.

And just imagine,

we got the one with Prince.

smile

Yea-ass !

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
Reply #438 posted 06/17/19 3:55am

Kares

Vannormal said:

-

You know...

bisdes all...

more than 260 million galaxies out there.

And just imagine,

we got the one with Prince.

smile

Yea-ass !

-

.
I beg your pardon, but it's actually at least one hundred billion galaxies just in the observable part of the Universe, and approx. 20 sextillion (20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) planets. Even if only a tiny fraction of those have life, we got the one with Prince. smile


Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #439 posted 06/17/19 6:40am

feeluupp

So the regular cd seems to have no real booklet or liner notes, just a single fold out page:

D9RBNMxWwAARuER.jpg:large

D9RBNMxXoAANNmW.jpg:large

D9RBNMxX4AA0u7M.jpg:large

[Edited 6/17/19 6:40am]

Reply #440 posted 06/17/19 6:45am

olb99

From the picture above, it appears that the booklet doesn't include precise information about the recording dates (month only) and doesn't include any information about the mixing process.

Reply #441 posted 06/17/19 6:46am

feeluupp

The inner cardboard is the pic of the protege album covers, and the inner sleeve is a flimsy half assed song info of the tracklist. That's basically it.

olb99 said:

From the picture above, it appears that the booklet doesn't include precise information about the recording dates (month only) and doesn't include any information about the mixing process.

Reply #442 posted 06/17/19 6:49am

olb99

feeluupp said:

The inner cardboard is the pic of the protege album covers, and the inner sleeve is a flimsy half assed song info of the tracklist. That's basically it.

olb99 said:

From the picture above, it appears that the booklet doesn't include precise information about the recording dates (month only) and doesn't include any information about the mixing process.

.

That's... disappointing. Although expected. neutral

Reply #443 posted 06/17/19 6:51am

feeluupp

Cheap pacakging for higher profits... Multiple vinyl releases, extra target release... Milk the fans for as much profit basically. lol

olb99 said:

feeluupp said:

The inner cardboard is the pic of the protege album covers, and the inner sleeve is a flimsy half assed song info of the tracklist. That's basically it.

.

That's... disappointing. Although expected. neutral

Reply #444 posted 06/17/19 6:56am

databank

No credit for Paul and Clare on NC2U. Interesting lol

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #445 posted 06/17/19 7:03am

feeluupp

databank said:

No credit for Paul and Clare on NC2U. Interesting lol

lol lol

Reply #446 posted 06/17/19 7:13am

Kares

feeluupp said:

So the regular cd seems to have no real booklet or liner notes, just a single fold out page:

D9RBNMxWwAARuER.jpg:large

D9RBNMxXoAANNmW.jpg:large

D9RBNMxX4AA0u7M.jpg:large

[Edited 6/17/19 6:40am]

.
This is a joke.
I'll refuse to buy the so-called "deluxe" edition for £50 just to get liner notes with the same music content.
.
Time to take action. I've had enough.

.

[Edited 6/17/19 8:13am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #447 posted 06/17/19 7:18am

databank

Kares said:

feeluupp said:

So the regular cd seems to have no real booklet or liner notes, just a single fold out page:

D9RBNMxWwAARuER.jpg:large

D9RBNMxXoAANNmW.jpg:large

D9RBNMxX4AA0u7M.jpg:large

[Edited 6/17/19 6:40am]

.
This is a joke.
I'll refuse to by the so-called "deluxe" edition for £50 just to get liner notes with the same music content.
.
Time to take action. I've had enough.

TBH it's likely such liner notes will be shared by purchasers here or on Discogs, as was the case with PR Deluxe and many other releases without any label sueing Discogs for copyright infringement AFAIK, so as long as the internet allows one to access them without paying and it's up to everyone to find them, I think it's fair game.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #448 posted 06/17/19 7:28am

udo

I have a better (cheaper) idea for Michael: Rerelease all abums in mildly remastered format but without any fades (if these were present).

Those non-faded versions will be the true album originals.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #449 posted 06/17/19 7:30am

udo

olb99 said:

From the picture above, it appears that the booklet doesn't include precise information about the recording dates (month only) and doesn't include any information about the mixing process.

.

Exactly.

It shows that `they` did not think that that info was of any interest to us.

Perhaps on a need to know basis?

I.o.w.: there's a lot of change needed there.

.

I almost forgot:

.

Why no jewelcase?

Is it that expen$ive versus the cardboard?

.

.

.

[Edited 6/17/19 7:32am]

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #450 posted 06/17/19 7:39am

Kares

databank said:

Kares said:

.
This is a joke.
I'll refuse to buy the so-called "deluxe" edition for £50 just to get liner notes with the same music content.
.
Time to take action. I've had enough.

TBH it's likely such liner notes will be shared by purchasers here or on Discogs, as was the case with PR Deluxe and many other releases without any label sueing Discogs for copyright infringement AFAIK, so as long as the internet allows one to access them without paying and it's up to everyone to find them, I think it's fair game.

.
Sure, but it's not about me. I'm sure I'll be able to find scans of it online. It's about the principle. And it's about being totally fed up now with how Prince's legacy is mistreated. After 3 years, there are no more excuses.
I do have a detailed plan for his legacy (that goes beyond the vault content) and I'm going to contact everyone in charge and will try to make a change. This is not what this man's legacy deserves.
.
(And obviously I'm not mad about the missing booklet. I'm disappointed with the inaccurate information the Estate is putting out everywhere, from PP Museum to the releases, I'm disappointed with the apparent lack of knowledge and most importantly: the lack of concept and vision.)
.

[Edited 6/17/19 8:13am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
Reply #451 posted 06/17/19 8:05am

udo

Kares said:

I do have a detailed plan for his legacy (that goes beyond the vault content) and I'm going to contact everyone in charge and will try to make a change. This is not what this man's legacy deserves.

.

I do agree here.

If I can help, please let me know.

WB Benelux did not reply to quetions about mixing authority.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #452 posted 06/17/19 8:12am

paisleypark4

carlos00 said:

 



databank said:


 



carlos00 said:


For those that doesn’t like the mix done to “Holly Rock”. Can you explain a little about what aspects you are not agree with?


 



It's not about "like", it's about authenticity. Neversin is the only one here (that we know of) who has the earlier draft of Holly Rock and most likely it has to do with the sax and other overdubs that he believes, based on that tape and the recording logs he's aware of, were borrowed from the final Sheila mix. He said "too much to list", maybe at a later date he will elaborate. 



 


Thanks for the answer. Now i understand. Maybe Neversin can tell us more about it. 



Right because it sounds musically extremely close to the released version so not sure what could have been the difference myself.
Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
Reply #453 posted 06/17/19 8:29am

udo

Well then, sell us a copy of the 2" tapes.

Yes, 24/96 will do.

Then we can see for ourselves and mix for our selves. (any decent PC can do this nowadays)

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #454 posted 06/17/19 9:29am

TrevorAyer

how much would you shell out for a package of individual tracks you could mix yourself?

They could probably pull 50 per song or 150 for a full album of songs you could mix yourself

Reply #455 posted 06/17/19 9:59am

antonb

Back on track . There is a booklet with the CD with info on it.
Reply #456 posted 06/17/19 11:48am

ElGorillos

Thanks to 'The Purple Stream' (Facebook) for the heads up! cool




Hmm.. no video shows up when I push 'Preview Post' ([youtube] youtube link [/youtube]), but here is a first Look at the CD release & booklet: https://youtu.be/9EofLDDyAKI


EG

Reply #457 posted 06/17/19 12:10pm

olb99

ElGorillos said:

Thanks to 'The Purple Stream' (Facebook) for the heads up! cool




Hmm.. no video shows up when I push 'Preview Post' ([youtube] youtube link [/youtube]), but here is a first Look at the CD release & booklet: https://youtu.be/9EofLDDyAKI


EG

.

Thanks for the link!

.

So:

.

"All songs mixed by Niko Bolas except:

"Love... Thy Will Be Done" mixed by Michael Koppelman

"Nothing Compares 2 U" mixed by Tony Maserati
Mastered by Bernie Grundman
Archival Producer/A&R: Michael Howe"

.

etc.

.

Looks like "Love... Thy Will Be Done" is the only song they didn't remix for "Originals".

.

Duane Tudahl is listed under "Thanks to", among many others.

[Edited 6/17/19 12:14pm]

Reply #458 posted 06/17/19 12:19pm

stillwaiting

databank said:

.

Don't tell me. But many people here are holding on to their bucks. See how they blamed Prince 4 not filling the CB CD's to their technical 80 minutes, totally ignoring the fact that P was trying to turn CB into an album, a statement, and that music isn't paid by the minute. See the fuss that was made over Duane rereleasing his book. It was a mere 25 or 30 bucks to spend for the reissue, and I gladly did it, but there was some namecalling. To Duane of all people. On the Org. Nuff said sad

Everyone has opinions, that's why a forum like this is even read. If we all felt the same way, it would be too boring to read. If Prince had released a 100 disc box set with each disc at 10 minutes a disc, there would be tons of complaining...but there would be tons of people so happy and satisfied with it.

Honestly, if the disc is not at least 70 minutes, I feel cheated. Many artists satisfy their fans with discs filled up. If it were a FLAC file collection, would you pay $30 for 30 minutes? I know some would, but many would feel cheated.

As far as Duane's book, I wish he would have let it be, and save the new information as a add on to the next book, if there is one. I was lucky, and bought it after the new one came out. As a Paul McCartney fan, I just knew there would be a deluxe of Egypt Station, and sure enough, I saved by waiting for the newer version, but Paul has a ton of fans unhappy with him for that. For Prince, Crystal Ball had so many faults, and the short discs did not help the cause. Sure, it would have been awkwrd for it to be on 3 discs, but it would have been cheaper, and doubt there would have been anybody marching on Paisley demanding that they get it on five discs for more money...

but it's all opinion...and my opinions are shared by some, hated by many, but they're mine. smile

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #459 posted 06/17/19 12:33pm

databank

paisleypark4 said:

carlos00 said:

Thanks for the answer. Now i understand. Maybe Neversin can tell us more about it.

Right because it sounds musically extremely close to the released version so not sure what could have been the difference myself.

If you listen to the released version again, you will notice clear differences.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #460 posted 06/17/19 12:36pm

databank

stillwaiting said:

databank said:

Don't tell me. But many people here are holding on to their bucks. See how they blamed Prince 4 not filling the CB CD's to their technical 80 minutes, totally ignoring the fact that P was trying to turn CB into an album, a statement, and that music isn't paid by the minute. See the fuss that was made over Duane rereleasing his book. It was a mere 25 or 30 bucks to spend for the reissue, and I gladly did it, but there was some namecalling. To Duane of all people. On the Org. Nuff said sad

Everyone has opinions, that's why a forum like this is even read. If we all felt the same way, it would be too boring to read. If Prince had released a 100 disc box set with each disc at 10 minutes a disc, there would be tons of complaining...but there would be tons of people so happy and satisfied with it.

Honestly, if the disc is not at least 70 minutes, I feel cheated. Many artists satisfy their fans with discs filled up. If it were a FLAC file collection, would you pay $30 for 30 minutes? I know some would, but many would feel cheated.

As far as Duane's book, I wish he would have let it be, and save the new information as a add on to the next book, if there is one. I was lucky, and bought it after the new one came out. As a Paul McCartney fan, I just knew there would be a deluxe of Egypt Station, and sure enough, I saved by waiting for the newer version, but Paul has a ton of fans unhappy with him for that. For Prince, Crystal Ball had so many faults, and the short discs did not help the cause. Sure, it would have been awkwrd for it to be on 3 discs, but it would have been cheaper, and doubt there would have been anybody marching on Paisley demanding that they get it on five discs for more money...

but it's all opinion...and my opinions are shared by some, hated by many, but they're mine. smile

You're talking about compilations, not albums, aren't you? eek eek eek

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #461 posted 06/17/19 12:38pm

databank

TrevorAyer said:

how much would you shell out for a package of individual tracks you could mix yourself?

They could probably pull 50 per song or 150 for a full album of songs you could mix yourself

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of respecting Prince's vision, wouldn't it?

Certainly this is out of the question.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #462 posted 06/17/19 12:40pm

stillwaiting

udo said:

.

Exactly.

It shows that `they` did not think that that info was of any interest to us.

Perhaps on a need to know basis?

I.o.w.: there's a lot of change needed there.

.

I almost forgot:

.

Why no jewelcase?

Is it that expen$ive versus the cardboard?

.

.

.

[Edited 6/17/19 7:32am]

Jewel case?

Musicology, 3121, PE, Lotus, 20Ten, AOA, Plectrum = no Jewel case

HNR Phase 1&2 = Jewel case

With 6 of his last 8 releases in variations of the Paper cases, not a shock to me...

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #463 posted 06/17/19 12:44pm

databank

olb99 said:

ElGorillos said:

Thanks to 'The Purple Stream' (Facebook) for the heads up! cool




Hmm.. no video shows up when I push 'Preview Post' ([youtube] youtube link [/youtube]), but here is a first Look at the CD release & booklet: https://youtu.be/9EofLDDyAKI


EG

.

Thanks for the link!

.

So:

.

"All songs mixed by Niko Bolas except:

"Love... Thy Will Be Done" mixed by Michael Koppelman

"Nothing Compares 2 U" mixed by Tony Maserati
Mastered by Bernie Grundman
Archival Producer/A&R: Michael Howe"

.

etc.

.

Looks like "Love... Thy Will Be Done" is the only song they didn't remix for "Originals".

.

Duane Tudahl is listed under "Thanks to", among many others.

[Edited 6/17/19 12:14pm]

At least Michael Howe was transparant about them remixing the multitracks to try and emulate the cassette downmixes they'd found but didn't feel like release as such because of sound quality concerns.

Glad to know Duane was consulted, or that they used his research to some extent. Maybe Duane will choose to address this here at some point in the future but it's his prerogative to do so or not.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #464 posted 06/17/19 12:47pm

databank

Kares said:

databank said:

TBH it's likely such liner notes will be shared by purchasers here or on Discogs, as was the case with PR Deluxe and many other releases without any label sueing Discogs for copyright infringement AFAIK, so as long as the internet allows one to access them without paying and it's up to everyone to find them, I think it's fair game.

.
Sure, but it's not about me. I'm sure I'll be able to find scans of it online. It's about the principle. And it's about being totally fed up now with how Prince's legacy is mistreated. After 3 years, there are no more excuses.
I do have a detailed plan for his legacy (that goes beyond the vault content) and I'm going to contact everyone in charge and will try to make a change. This is not what this man's legacy deserves.
.
(And obviously I'm not mad about the missing booklet. I'm disappointed with the inaccurate information the Estate is putting out everywhere, from PP Museum to the releases, I'm disappointed with the apparent lack of knowledge and most importantly: the lack of concept and vision.)
.

[Edited 6/17/19 8:13am]

Good luck with that. But I fear that this will look like a mere mortal addressing the gods, and that the gods won't listen to a mere mortal...

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #465 posted 06/17/19 12:56pm

Genesia

databank said:

olb99 said:

.

Thanks for the link!

.

So:

.

"All songs mixed by Niko Bolas except:

"Love... Thy Will Be Done" mixed by Michael Koppelman

"Nothing Compares 2 U" mixed by Tony Maserati
Mastered by Bernie Grundman
Archival Producer/A&R: Michael Howe"

.

etc.

.

Looks like "Love... Thy Will Be Done" is the only song they didn't remix for "Originals".

.

Duane Tudahl is listed under "Thanks to", among many others.

[Edited 6/17/19 12:14pm]

At least Michael Howe was transparant about them remixing the multitracks to try and emulate the cassette downmixes they'd found but didn't feel like release as such because of sound quality concerns.

Glad to know Duane was consulted, or that they used his research to some extent. Maybe Duane will choose to address this here at some point in the future but it's his prerogative to do so or not.


His prerogative? You don't think they made him sign a NDA? lol

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #466 posted 06/17/19 1:15pm

stillwaiting

databank said:

stillwaiting said:

Honestly, if the disc is not at least 70 minutes, I feel cheated. Many artists satisfy )

You're talking about compilations, not albums, aren't you? eek eek eek

Even for albums you can do it like this:

For a 35 minute album, you can include 35-40 min of alternate takes, and make them as "bonus tracks." Somebody else suggested making Originals a two disc set, one with the original mixes, and one with the supposed altered ones like the MJ Xcsape release...not a bad idea, but if these mixes

are altered like I think they are, why alter them to begin with?

____________________________________________________________________________

It just gives the release an added value. Sure, 30 years ago, nobody thought like this, but times change. I have thousands of cds. If things were more consolidated, it would save space. But I'm converting to digital anyway, but it is still something where some people like value, some don't. Gas prices here are $2.29.9999999 per gallon at the cheapest place, but there are people filling up at a rip off place for $2.65.99999999 per gallon.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #467 posted 06/17/19 1:25pm

databank

Genesia said:

databank said:

At least Michael Howe was transparant about them remixing the multitracks to try and emulate the cassette downmixes they'd found but didn't feel like release as such because of sound quality concerns.

Glad to know Duane was consulted, or that they used his research to some extent. Maybe Duane will choose to address this here at some point in the future but it's his prerogative to do so or not.


His prerogative? You don't think they made him sign a NDA? lol

I thought of that, if he was paid they may have, but yet again in that case it'd be his prerogative to tell us he signed a NDA or not to address it at all.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #468 posted 06/17/19 1:39pm

databank

stillwaiting said:

databank said:

You're talking about compilations, not albums, aren't you? eek eek eek

Even for albums you can do it like this:

For a 35 minute album, you can include 35-40 min of alternate takes, and make them as "bonus tracks." Somebody else suggested making Originals a two disc set, one with the original mixes, and one with the supposed altered ones like the MJ Xcsape release...not a bad idea, but if these mixes

are altered like I think they are, why alter them to begin with?

____________________________________________________________________________

It just gives the release an added value. Sure, 30 years ago, nobody thought like this, but times change. I have thousands of cds. If things were more consolidated, it would save space. But I'm converting to digital anyway, but it is still something where some people like value, some don't. Gas prices here are $2.29.9999999 per gallon at the cheapest place, but there are people filling up at a rip off place for $2.65.99999999 per gallon.

I'm sorry, I wass not clear in my question, I meant original albums not reissues. I guess you didn't mean that for original albums.

.

I have to say that back when I listened to CD I always wished they'd leave a minute or so of silence between the album and the bonus tracks, because I didn't always wanted to listen to those and I didn't like how they often took away the moment of silence and meditation that followed the album, as a statement, itself. Now that I've moved to digital of course I can easily remove bonus tracks from the album's folder and listen to them at my convenience, so I don't have this problem anymore, and admiteddly I still was happy to find bonus tracks on some albums back in the days, but I wasn't paying music by the minute either.

.

Also, I do not believe it's such a great idea to treat arts like gas or any ordinary product. The music, movie and publishing industry have done that more than often in the course of the last century, and this wasn't necessarily the best thing for artists (nor the audience, for that matter).

.

At the end of the day IDK about reissues, and anyway CD is clearly a format on its path to near-total extinction, so today albums can just as well be 30 minutes or 5 hours long. But it took me only a few listens, back in 1998, to realize Prince had thought Crystal Ball as an album, not a compilation, despite its apparant random structure (which is, when one pays attention, not random at all). Once I'd realized that, my initial rage at the CDs only being 50 minutes long instead of 80, faded away instantly smile Now of course when it comes to Originals, and given the clear lack of ambition to turn it into the imitation of a proper studio album, more would certainly have been better.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #469 posted 06/17/19 1:59pm

stillwaiting

databank said:

I'm sorry, I wass not clear in my question, I meant original albums not reissues. I guess you didn't mean that for original albums.

.

I was not clear either, so no reason for you to be sorry. I actually do mean it for original albums now, but there are only so many artists I care about even making original albums. Back in the day, I just wanted the albums, but from around 2008 or so, I liked the fact that we could get discs filled up, even if the demos or bonus tracks were not quite as good. The extra seconds before the bonus tracks start is a good idea.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #470 posted 06/17/19 3:02pm

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #471 posted 06/17/19 3:21pm

TrevorAyer

databank said:

TrevorAyer said:

how much would you shell out for a package of individual tracks you could mix yourself?

They could probably pull 50 per song or 150 for a full album of songs you could mix yourself

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of respecting Prince's vision, wouldn't it?

Certainly this is out of the question.

the prince vision has always been questionable .. mixing sott era trax with 90s trax on crystal ball wasn't the best prince move .. adding jam of the year to movie star was a bit of prince blasphemy .. softening the lyrics to extraloveable old friends and the cross was rough .. those clickie noises all over gold didn't help ..

prince had his cool video game and his wacky websites .. i think a program that lets you mix his songs anyway you like would fit right in with his other computer nerdy enterprises .. lots of bands have done that sort of thing .. remix contests for fans .. prince even had fans finish a song one time ...

there have been allusions to wally having a big plan in place .. what if we had all those extra trax prince recorded and then supposedly erased .. we could mix wally any way we like from just him with a piano to whatever shitshow it became .. it would give prince fans endless fun

what if we could un mix some of the overproduced records .. take off some of the cheezy effects .. any way u slice it can't be worse than these yolks at the estate messing with the songs ..

Reply #472 posted 06/17/19 3:36pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

TrevorAyer said:

databank said:

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of respecting Prince's vision, wouldn't it?

Certainly this is out of the question.

the prince vision has always been questionable .. mixing sott era trax with 90s trax on crystal ball wasn't the best prince move .. adding jam of the year to movie star was a bit of prince blasphemy .. softening the lyrics to extraloveable old friends and the cross was rough .. those clickie noises all over gold didn't help ..

prince had his cool video game and his wacky websites .. i think a program that lets you mix his songs anyway you like would fit right in with his other computer nerdy enterprises .. lots of bands have done that sort of thing .. remix contests for fans .. prince even had fans finish a song one time ...

there have been allusions to wally having a big plan in place .. what if we had all those extra trax prince recorded and then supposedly erased .. we could mix wally any way we like from just him with a piano to whatever shitshow it became .. it would give prince fans endless fun

what if we could un mix some of the overproduced records .. take off some of the cheezy effects .. any way u slice it can't be worse than these yolks at the estate messing with the songs ..

Good example.

Prince was on crack or something during that era. That Crystal Ball fiasco was so cringeworthy. Then that awful Old Friends for Sale and that 1999 the New master bullshit.

We can't say Prince would/shoulda anything. He was alwasy a contradictory enigma that would say or do one thing on Monday and the complete opposite the following week.

Now it's just about what is there and how best to preserve and/or release what is there, and what state it's been left in.

Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #473 posted 06/17/19 4:45pm

databank

TrevorAyer said:

 



databank said:


 



TrevorAyer said:


how much would you shell out for a package of individual tracks you could mix yourself?


 


They could probably pull 50 per song or 150 for a full album of songs you could mix yourself


 


 



That would pretty much defeat the purpose of respecting Prince's vision, wouldn't it?


Certainly this is out of the question.



the prince vision has always been questionable .. mixing sott era trax with 90s trax on crystal ball wasn't the best prince move .. adding jam of the year to movie star was a bit of prince blasphemy .. softening the lyrics to extraloveable old friends and the cross was rough .. those clickie noises all over gold didn't help .. 

prince had his cool video game and his wacky websites .. i think a program that lets you mix his songs anyway you like would fit right in with his other computer nerdy enterprises .. lots of bands have done that sort of thing .. remix contests for fans .. prince even had fans finish a song one time ...  

there have been allusions to wally having a big plan in place .. what if we had all those extra trax prince recorded and then supposedly erased .. we could mix wally any way we like from just him with a piano to whatever shitshow it became .. it would give prince fans endless fun

what if we could un mix some of the overproduced records .. take off some of the cheezy effects .. any way u slice it can't be worse than these yolks at the estate messing with the songs ..  



It's true that Prince allowed this a few times as gadget, interactive experiment, but that was his prerogative and his only. I do not believe that what anyone thinks of his artistic choices is reason enough for allowing anyone to mess with his works. Prince did what he did. It's not even about respecting what he wanted or would want, it's about respecting the works. And it is my strong belief that audiences have no rights over the works of artista. Zero. Nada. I don't want Arthur Smith from Cincinnati to improve even a book, a movie or a record that I find imperfect. I won't try to do it myself either. I will simply cease to listen to, read or watch something I deem too boring. I think I remember you're a songwriter yourself so I'm surprised you wouldn't mind strangers to mess with your work. But some artists are more open to outside intervention and copyleft than others so maybe you are not as attached to this as I am, and it's OK. But I think it's enough that people can cover Prince songs if they wish to improve on them.
.
Now yeah, the Estate could admitedly have fun with a track once or twice, for the sake of a competition or interactivity or just plain fun like Prince and others did it (Bowie with Space Oddity, for one), I don't necessarily think it's a great idea but it could be a good marketing ploy. But releasing the bulk of Prince's catalogue in multitrack format would only result in a massive, brutal savaging of his catalogue by amateurs, with the internet being flooded by such fanmixes. It could considerably tarnish the commercial value and the legacy of Prince's catalogue, with the real thing becoming indistinguishable from the fakes, and the Estate losing the hand on the material.
.
Now you could oppose to me that after all, anyone can remix a Hemingway book because books don't have multitracks. It's true. Bur somehow I suspect that when it comes to music and Prince in particular, such a project could be unusually destructive as long as we, the fans who lived in Prince's lifetime, are alive. The vandalism would be considerable in the hands of all those people who, for each new record, had a very strong emotional reaction, sometimes blaming Prince for each note they disliked as if Prince had spat in their face and commited a personal offense against them. Better let the material in peace if you ask me. Or wait until we're all long gone and the next generation can have fun with the material without any pretention to "improve" P's work.
.
Thx for replying btw, I know we had strong disagreements in the past but we're still both humans sharing a passion for Prince's music, so it's cool that we can talk again. biggrin
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #474 posted 06/17/19 5:59pm

stillwaiting

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

TrevorAyer said:

the prince vision has always been questionable ..

Good example.

Prince was on crack or something during that era. That Crystal Ball fiasco was so cringeworthy. Then that awful Old Friends for Sale and that 1999 the New master bullshit.

We can't say Prince would/shoulda anything. He was alwasy a contradictory enigma that would say or do one thing on Monday and the complete opposite the following week.

Now it's just about what is there and how best to preserve and/or release what is there, and what state it's been left in.

I want to agree with you on all of that, doubt he was on crack, he was on PRINCE, which is bad enough. The brilliance to record Witness and original Old Friends 4 Sale, but the stupidity to leave them unreleased...yep, you're right about how we can't say what he shoulda woulda...

And I love the Old Friends release, other than the title track being the jacked up version...1999 The New Mistake? Agree with you on that too.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #475 posted 06/17/19 6:34pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

stillwaiting said:

 



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


 



TrevorAyer said:


 


the prince vision has always been questionable ..



 


Good example.

Prince was on crack or something during that era. That Crystal Ball fiasco was so cringeworthy. Then that awful Old Friends for Sale and that 1999 the New master bullshit.

We can't say Prince would/shoulda anything. He was alwasy a contradictory enigma that would say or do one thing on Monday and the complete opposite the following week.

Now it's just about what is there and how best to preserve and/or release what is there, and what state it's been left in.



 


I want to agree with you on all of that, doubt he was on crack, he was on PRINCE, which is bad enough. The brilliance to record Witness and original Old Friends 4 Sale, but the stupidity  to leave them unreleased...yep, you're right about how we can't say what he shoulda woulda...


 


And I love the Old Friends release, other than the title track being the jacked up version...1999 The New Mistake? Agree with you on that too.



That’s why it’s so easy to ignore all those silly “purity” evangelicals posting on this thread where it comes to the quality/etymology nonsense.

What we have are recordings in various states of decomposition, and the only factor for me is getting it all cataloged and preserved and hopefully as much of it released so that we can all appreciate it.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #476 posted 06/17/19 7:40pm

purplepolitician

Dear Michaelangelo has grown on me the most from this set. I was disappointed that it didn't have the same epic intro as Sheila's that I had grown so fond of over the years. Upon multiple listens, I have to say the non-intro on P's version is decent 2 n fuck it's Prince singing it damn near the same cloud9 lol. Whole set is fantabulous if u ask me dancing jig.

I think I wanna file my nails! bored2
Reply #477 posted 06/17/19 8:33pm

mnfriend

BartVanHemelen said:



Thanks!
Reply #478 posted 06/17/19 8:50pm

udo

antonb said:

Back on track . There is a booklet with the CD with info on it.

.

Not the necesary info.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #479 posted 06/17/19 8:51pm

udo

stillwaiting said:

With 6 of his last 8 releases in variations of the Paper cases, not a shock to me...

.

Perhaps not a shock but still a sign of a lack of quality.

Jewel cases were the standard until the cheap$kates found out about cardboard.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #480 posted 06/17/19 8:59pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

udo said:

 



stillwaiting said:


With 6 of his last 8 releases in variations of the Paper cases, not a shock to me...



.


Perhaps not a shock but still a sign of a lack of quality.


Jewel cases were the standard until the cheap$kates found out about cardboard.



Who even buys CD’s? And jewel case are not more necessarily expensive than cardboard. Lol. I’d say it probably costs more.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #481 posted 06/17/19 9:01pm

udo

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Who even buys CD’s?

.

Some people do.

People that do not panic when the ipod/phone or whatever device goes kaputt.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #482 posted 06/17/19 11:49pm

TrivialPursuit

Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Who even buys CD’s?


I do, but only with those few artist I want to support in that way. MJ, Prince, Madonna, Janet. I bought the Motley Crue soundtrack for The Dirt. That was the first CD since the Purple Rain Deluxe stuff when I did an "Unboxing Prince" video. So needless to say, it's a rare occasion.

Oh, I did buy Man of the Woods on CD and the wood grain orange vinyl.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
Reply #483 posted 06/18/19 12:41am

Moonbeam

This is such a blast to listen to. It might be my favorite Prince release since The Gold Experience.

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #484 posted 06/18/19 12:45am

antonb

udo said:

antonb said:

Back on track . There is a booklet with the CD with info on it.

.

Not the necesary info.

Theres plenty of info on these tracks on princevault etc. The basic info is really all you need on a cd.

Reply #485 posted 06/18/19 2:50am

olb99

udo said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Who even buys CD’s?

.

Some people do.

People that do not panic when the ipod/phone or whatever device goes kaputt.

.

I buy FLAC files (or MP3 files, if FLAC files are not available) and stream them from my own server. I don't panic when streaming services don't have the music I own or the exact version of a release or song I own. I can stream my music to any device I want. I guess I would panic if my house burned down, but my data would be safely backed up online and offline (at another location). biggrin

.

Anyway, not buying physical releases, I like when a booklet is available as a PDF file. I don't spend a lot of time reading it, as much of the information is available elsewhere (Musicbrainz, Discogs, Wikipedia, etc.), but it's always nice to have.

.

I don't care about CD cases, though. wink

Reply #486 posted 06/18/19 3:05am

fabriziovenerandi

First italian review:

.

https://www.rockol.it/rec...-originals

.

4/5 stars

The review doesn't tell nothing new about the release

Reply #487 posted 06/18/19 5:50am

thedoorkeeper

Just got the new Springsteen CD.
Its a cardboard case. I prefer cardboard over a jewel case.
Reply #488 posted 06/18/19 6:23am

Holmes

I think this release is a real shame as the music itself is great, but there is far too much reverb on these mixes. The reverb decay times are too long and the levels are way too high in the mix. It sounds out of place and is not at all true to Prince's production aesthetic. He'd never have used that much reverb. Especially on the funk tracks, he typically would've kept things a lot drier.


I hope that on subsequent releases they put a lot more care into the mixes and the application of any additional effects. I think they should consult producers with intimate knowledge of Prince's production style and former engineers and associates.

[Edited 6/18/19 6:27am]

[Edited 6/19/19 5:49am]

Reply #489 posted 06/18/19 7:18am

rdhull

Kares said:

 



feeluupp said:


So the regular cd seems to have no real booklet or liner notes, just a single fold out page:


 


 


D9RBNMxWwAARuER.jpg:large

 


 


 




D9RBNMxXoAANNmW.jpg:large


D9RBNMxX4AA0u7M.jpg:large




[Edited 6/17/19 6:40am]



.
This is a joke.
I'll refuse to buy the so-called "deluxe" edition for £50 just to get liner notes with the same music content.
.
Time to take action. I've had enough.


.

[Edited 6/17/19 8:13am]



Go get ‘em tiger!
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #490 posted 06/18/19 7:28am

rdhull

Someone on tudahls fb page said:
it's a sad state of affairs when not exclusive musical content but sleevenotes make the difference between regular and deluxe editions...
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #491 posted 06/18/19 8:28am

nextedition

udo said:

 



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Who even buys CD’s?

.


Some people do.


People that do not panic when the ipod/phone or whatever device goes kaputt.


 


And when the cdplayer goes kaputt?
Reply #492 posted 06/18/19 8:42am

rdhull

nextedition said:

udo said:

 



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Who even buys CD’s?

.


Some people do.


People that do not panic when the ipod/phone or whatever device goes kaputt.


 


And when the cdplayer goes kaputt?

You buy a new one and still buy cds to download to other devices
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #493 posted 06/18/19 9:02am

databank

rdhull said:

nextedition said:
And when the cdplayer goes kaputt?
You buy a new one and still buy cds to download to other devices

To each their own, I used to have over 800 CDs and over 200 cassettes and fancy tem deeply, but that doesn't make much of a difference in the end, it's just a matter of personal preference. My digital collection is on 4 different drives, 2 of which are at 2 different people's places in a different country than the one I live in. My chances of losing my music collection is virtually zer0 unless civilization collapses and power isn't available anymore.

Streaming I don't do, records can be subject to removal, but as most people won't lose their internet connection durably and few records will be removed, the risk is minimal as well if you're happy with just what is on streaming services (which I ain't).

On the other hand, if your house burns or gets robbed or is subject to a giant dinosaur attack, which is unlikely and something I wouldn't wish to anybody but in the realm of possible, unless you purchase another copy of each CD and store it someplace else, or have an insurance strong enough for you to purchase everything again overnight, you lose it all at once.

So there is no valid argument that can support physical collerctions over digital ones in this day and age, except for personal preference, which is totally respectable.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #494 posted 06/18/19 9:05am

Ugot2shakesumthin

rdhull said:

nextedition said:


And when the cdplayer goes kaputt?

You buy a new one and still buy cds to download to other devices


It’s a matter of what you’re comfortable with. Older people are comfortable with whatever was common when they were younger including hair styles and fashion.
CD’s are a dead media walking. You’ll eventually have to cope with less and less options available for buying and consuming it. Plus can lose or damage your cd if it scratches or whatever.

My old records and CD’s languish somewhere at home as for me it far simpler to listen on whatever gadget happens to be on me or connected to to.

Alexa, Siri, Cortana, Google, play Bitches Brew by Miles Davis...
[Edited 6/18/19 9:10am]
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #495 posted 06/18/19 9:13am

rdhull

databank said:

 



rdhull said:


nextedition said:
And when the cdplayer goes kaputt?

You buy a new one and still buy cds to download to other devices

To each their own, p>



No shit Sherlock

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #496 posted 06/18/19 9:14am

rdhull

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rdhull said:


You buy a new one and still buy cds to download to other devices


It’s a matter of what you’re comfortable with.

Duh
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #497 posted 06/18/19 9:25am

Ugot2shakesumthin

rdhull said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



It’s a matter of what you’re comfortable with.

Duh



I was expecting “get off my lawn”
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #498 posted 06/18/19 9:39am

rdhull

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rdhull said:


Duh



I was expecting “get off my lawn”

Why?
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #499 posted 06/18/19 9:41am

olb99

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Alexa, Siri, Cortana, Google, play Bitches Brew by Miles Davis...

.

Ok, but which version? The original mix? The 1999 remix by Mark Wilder? The deluxe reissue? I have 7 different versions of the album on my server (including a transfer of the SQ Quadraphonic LP)... biggrin

Reply #500 posted 06/18/19 9:54am

Ugot2shakesumthin

rdhull said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:




I was expecting “get off my lawn”

Why?



You’re living in the past lol
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #501 posted 06/18/19 9:57am

databank

I'm a bit confused by the hostility of some fellow orgers here. I know I sometimes was an ass to fellow orgers in the past, I apologize for that. I've (hopefully) grown and I'm really trying to make amends now by remaining civil in all circumstances. I'm sorry if I've pissed the shit out of some of you in the past, I can't change that, I can only try and be nicer from now on.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #502 posted 06/18/19 10:04am

rdhull

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rdhull said:


Why?



You’re living in the past lol


But I’ve explained I buy cd’s and also do current ways of listening such as downloading etc. I do both old school and current.
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #503 posted 06/18/19 10:06am

rdhull

shrug..but I’m damn sure not paying 60 dollars for a vinyl or a deluxe cd with just added essay
[Edited 6/18/19 10:14am]
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #504 posted 06/18/19 10:14am

Ugot2shakesumthin

rdhull said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:




You’re living in the past lol


But I’ve explained I buy cd’s and also do current ways of listening such as downloading etc. I do both old school and current.


Yeah but you didn’t post or address the rest of my comment you responded to that you’re going to have to cope with the change of technologies. I. Sure you do realize that older technologies are not supported after a certain point. You’re at the edge of that ledge.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #505 posted 06/18/19 10:19am

rdhull

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rdhull said:



But I’ve explained I buy cd’s and also do current ways of listening such as downloading etc. I do both old school and current.


Yeah but you didn’t post or address the rest of my comment you responded to that you’re going to have to cope with the change of technologies. I. Sure you do realize that older technologies are not supported after a certain point. You’re at the edge of that ledge.

I responded to what was needed cause u presumed I don’t have or use current technology just because I said what people can do if they buy cds and the cds get lost etc. And with that, why even bother with answering fully?
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #506 posted 06/18/19 10:42am

Ugot2shakesumthin

rdhull said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



Yeah but you didn’t post or address the rest of my comment you responded to that you’re going to have to cope with the change of technologies. I. Sure you do realize that older technologies are not supported after a certain point. You’re at the edge of that ledge.

I responded to what was needed cause u presumed I don’t have or use current technology just because I said what people can do if they buy cds and the cds get lost etc. And with that, why even bother with answering fully?


You responded like a child and ignored the rest because you did not like the implications.

Lets be honest.

And those who bitch about the physical CD’s should be glad that the dying media is even supported, much less made fancier only for no one but an ungrateful minority buying them.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #507 posted 06/18/19 11:14am

stillwaiting

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

udo said:

.

Perhaps not a shock but still a sign of a lack of quality.

Jewel cases were the standard until the cheap$kates found out about cardboard.

Who even buys CD’s? And jewel case are not more necessarily expensive than cardboard. Lol. I’d say it probably costs more.

As of 2017, More units sold were in downloads, but cd and vinyl revenue combined was still higher, which is likely due to older people buying physical media, and the few artists that release value oriented multi-disc sets. And sound quality is a big deal to older people who don't want crap mp3 brickwalled to death, however even though cds are bought by older people, the trend is to brickwall them to death too. Sad.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #508 posted 06/18/19 11:41am

Ugot2shakesumthin

stillwaiting said:

 



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


udo said:

 


.


Perhaps not a shock but still a sign of a lack of quality.


Jewel cases were the standard until the cheap$kates found out about cardboard.



Who even buys CD’s? And jewel case are not more necessarily expensive than cardboard. Lol. I’d say it probably costs more.

 


As of 2017, More units sold were in downloads, but cd and vinyl revenue combined was still higher, which is likely due to older people buying physical media, and the few artists that release value oriented multi-disc sets. And sound quality is a big deal to older people who don't want crap mp3 brickwalled to death, however even though cds are bought by older people, the trend is to brickwall them to death too. Sad. 



That’s only part of the story. Downloads and streaming are not the same. Both are digital but revenue from streaming is 5.7 billion while physical sales is only 1.5 billion in revenue. So combined digital media far far surpasses physically media. Not only that, it’s regional. Those physical sales are in countries like Japan not the US where Prince’s largest base is.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #509 posted 06/18/19 11:49am

databank

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

stillwaiting said:

As of 2017, More units sold were in downloads, but cd and vinyl revenue combined was still higher, which is likely due to older people buying physical media, and the few artists that release value oriented multi-disc sets. And sound quality is a big deal to older people who don't want crap mp3 brickwalled to death, however even though cds are bought by older people, the trend is to brickwall them to death too. Sad.

That’s only part of the story. Downloads and streaming are not the same. Both are digital but revenue from streaming is 5.7 billion while physical sales is only 1.5 billion in revenue. So combined digital media far far surpasses physically media. Not only that, it’s regional. Those physical sales are in countries like Japan not the US where Prince’s largest base is.

nod

Physical media are on their way out. Like it or not, it's that way it is. Same with movies and books. It was never a matter of opinions, that's what the vast majority of people dig and that's what dictates the market. It doesn't matter, music will still be music, films will always be films and books will always be books no matter the format.

[Edited 6/18/19 11:50am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #510 posted 06/18/19 11:56am

stillwaiting

databank said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

stillwaiting said: That’s only part of the story. Downloads and streaming are not the same. Both are digital but revenue from streaming is 5.7 billion while physical sales is only 1.5 billion in revenue. So combined digital media far far surpasses physically media. Not only that, it’s regional. Those physical sales are in countries like Japan not the US where Prince’s largest base is.

nod

Physical media are on their way out. Like it or not, it's that way it is. Same with movies and books. It was never a matter of opinions, that's what the vast majority of people dig and that's what dictates the market. It doesn't matter, music will still be music, films will always be films and books will always be books no matter the format.

[Edited 6/18/19 11:50am]

Obviously, they are on the way out, but to ask "Who buy's Cds?" when millions buy at least one a year is is a silly question. The revenue from streaming does not single out specific money to specific artists, who are not getting their fair share. Physical sales still outpaces specific sales by a tiny margin, but who cares? Physical sales will be around a bit...despite declining.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #511 posted 06/18/19 12:04pm

Transformed1

I for one buy physical media. Will be buying this CD and any future releases on CD.

Any word on the remix version of Nothing Compares 2 U yet? It's out in a couple days. Hard to believe no leaked info yet.

I'm tempted to travel to a crappier part of town to see if some uncaring employees jumped the gun and put it on the shelves early.

Reply #512 posted 06/18/19 12:06pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

stillwaiting said:

 



databank said:


 



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


stillwaiting said: That’s only part of the story. Downloads and streaming are not the same. Both are digital but revenue from streaming is 5.7 billion while physical sales is only 1.5 billion in revenue. So combined digital media far far surpasses physically media. Not only that, it’s regional. Those physical sales are in countries like Japan not the US where Prince’s largest base is.

nod


Physical media are on their way out. Like it or not, it's that way it is. Same with movies and books. It was never a matter of opinions, that's what the vast majority of people dig and that's what dictates the market. It doesn't matter, music will still be music, films will always be films and books will always be books no matter the format.


[Edited 6/18/19 11:50am]



 


 


Obviously, they are on the way out, but to ask "Who buy's Cds?" when millions buy at least one a year is is a silly question. The revenue from streaming does not single out specific money to specific artists, who are not getting their fair share. Physical sales still outpaces specific sales by a tiny margin, but who cares? Physical sales will be around a bit...despite declining.



Well the exclusive with Tidal was for a streaming service. The media how most people consume music. And Tidal as we all know is a company originally co-owned by a recording artist in Jay Z and a coalition or other recording artists themselves.
So you can manufacture your argument any way you like, but doesn’t change that physical sales are a tiny fraction of how people consume music or how the industry makes money from music.
[Edited 6/18/19 12:08pm]
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #513 posted 06/18/19 1:06pm

rdhull

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rdhull said:


I responded to what was needed cause u presumed I don’t have or use current technology just because I said what people can do if they buy cds and the cds get lost etc. And with that, why even bother with answering fully?


You responded like a child and ignored the rest because you did not like the implications.

Lets be honest.

And those who bitch about the physical CD’s should be glad that the dying media is even supported, much less made fancier only for no one but an ungrateful minority buying them.


exhibit a, exactly my point, why’d I even bother further, Prince .org at its finest aka duh
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #514 posted 06/18/19 1:40pm

Genesia

rdhull said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:
You’re living in the past lol
But I’ve explained I buy cd’s and also do current ways of listening such as downloading etc. I do both old school and current.


RD, some people are just content to be renters. There's no point in even going there with them.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #515 posted 06/18/19 1:43pm

fabriziovenerandi

databank said:

nod

Physical media are on their way out. Like it or not, it's that way it is. Same with movies and books. It was never a matter of opinions, that's what the vast majority of people dig and that's what dictates the market. It doesn't matter, music will still be music, films will always be films and books will always be books no matter the format.

[Edited 6/18/19 11:50am]

.

Well, no. electronic book for example are - actually - minisite in HTML and CSS. Electronic literature is something in digital that you can not have in book.

And there are more and more digital product that create new way to listen music or see movie. For fiction tv see for example Bandersnatch, Life is Strange (a mix between a videogame and a fiction) or, in music, Tender Metal.

/

f.

Reply #516 posted 06/18/19 1:53pm

rdhull

Genesia said:

 



rdhull said:


Ugot2shakesumthin said:
You’re living in the past lol

But I’ve explained I buy cd’s and also do current ways of listening such as downloading etc. I do both old school and current.


RD, some people are just content to be renters. There's no point in even going there with them.


I know right lol.... thing is I own and rent and the dingleberry is presenting some case to some court thinking they are teaching somebody something we already know. Lol this era
c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #517 posted 06/18/19 2:59pm

AMERICA1ST

I was in a Target today and they already had the CDs on the shelf. It was the first time I had heard of this "cinematic" version of Nothing Compares 2 U. It sounded so bogus that Target got this exclusive when it was not included on the deluxe editions that I left the CD on the shelf. Now i find out that it was not supposed to be on the shelf until June 21 at Target.

If Prince didn't have anything to do with a remix, how interested in a serious Prince connoisseur of over 30 years like me? Is it worth the trouble or attention?

Reply #518 posted 06/18/19 3:01pm

AMERICA1ST

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

stillwaiting said:

Obviously, they are on the way out, but to ask "Who buy's Cds?" when millions buy at least one a year is is a silly question. The revenue from streaming does not single out specific money to specific artists, who are not getting their fair share. Physical sales still outpaces specific sales by a tiny margin, but who cares? Physical sales will be around a bit...despite declining.

Well the exclusive with Tidal was for a streaming service. The media how most people consume music. And Tidal as we all know is a company originally co-owned by a recording artist in Jay Z and a coalition or other recording artists themselves. So you can manufacture your argument any way you like, but doesn’t change that physical sales are a tiny fraction of how people consume music or how the industry makes money from music. [Edited 6/18/19 12:08pm]

Tidal is some bullshit in my opinion. There is a reason vinyl has been coming back recently. Some of us still like to have something in hand that we control and can play anywhere and anytime without subscription fees and internet bullshit. That Jay Z owns it makes me hate it even more.

Reply #519 posted 06/18/19 3:04pm

AMERICA1ST

Transformed1 said:

I for one buy physical media. Will be buying this CD and any future releases on CD.

Any word on the remix version of Nothing Compares 2 U yet? It's out in a couple days. Hard to believe no leaked info yet.

I'm tempted to travel to a crappier part of town to see if some uncaring employees jumped the gun and put it on the shelves early.

Can you believe I was in a Target this morning and I had it in my hand and put in back since I had ordered the regular version from DeepDiscount??? I bet if I go back tomorrow they will have yanked it.

Reply #520 posted 06/18/19 3:09pm

thedoorkeeper

I'll check Target tomorrow(Wed.)
Right across the street from work.
Reply #521 posted 06/18/19 3:11pm

rdhull

Transformed1 said:

I for one buy physical media. Will  be buying this CD and any future releases on CD



You, are a good person.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #522 posted 06/18/19 3:15pm

databank

fabriziovenerandi said:

databank said:

nod

Physical media are on their way out. Like it or not, it's that way it is. Same with movies and books. It was never a matter of opinions, that's what the vast majority of people dig and that's what dictates the market. It doesn't matter, music will still be music, films will always be films and books will always be books no matter the format.

[Edited 6/18/19 11:50am]

.

Well, no. electronic book for example are - actually - minisite in HTML and CSS. Electronic literature is something in digital that you can not have in book.

And there are more and more digital product that create new way to listen music or see movie. For fiction tv see for example Bandersnatch, Life is Strange (a mix between a videogame and a fiction) or, in music, Tender Metal.

/

f.

Not sure what you mean. Epub and mobi files aren't websites. I know sites like Amazon only technically "stream" you the books, but there are ways to actually "rip" the books from them, and sites that actually offer the files themselves (whether legally or otherwise).

I only know Bandersnatch in the titles you mentionned, interactive arts is yet something else. Not sure how much future it has, it's a bit like the "choose your own adventure" books I used to play as a teen, they were cool but never came close to replace novels. In a way they're not so far removed from Trevor's suggestion to "remix your own Prince album from the multitracks" or, even, video games in the traditional sense of the term. Until maybe AI develops to the pojnt that it can adjust to one's own choices in real time and in an infinite manner of ways, literally creating the work as you play it, those things remain pre-programmed with a limited number of options, and I don't think people are looking for the same thing when "playing" a work of art as they do when "consuming" it in a passive way, i.e. accepting an artists' choice and decision for what it is, as such. It's hard to predict the future but the tremendous success of video games for 40 years and the fact that it doesn't really competes with films and series suggests that one may never replace the other in terms of a consumers' experience.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #523 posted 06/18/19 3:31pm

IstenSzek

databank said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

Well, no. electronic book for example are - actually - minisite in HTML and CSS. Electronic literature is something in digital that you can not have in book.

And there are more and more digital product that create new way to listen music or see movie. For fiction tv see for example Bandersnatch, Life is Strange (a mix between a videogame and a fiction) or, in music, Tender Metal.

/

f.

Not sure what you mean. Epub and mobi files aren't websites. I know sites like Amazon only technically "stream" you the books, but there are ways to actually "rip" the books from them, and sites that actually offer the files themselves (whether legally or otherwise).

I only know Bandersnatch in the titles you mentionned, interactive arts is yet something else. Not sure how much future it has, it's a bit like the "choose your own adventure" books I used to play as a teen, they were cool but never came close to replace novels. In a way they're not so far removed from Trevor's suggestion to "remix your own Prince album from the multitracks" or, even, video games in the traditional sense of the term. Until maybe AI develops to the pojnt that it can adjust to one's own choices in real time and in an infinite manner of ways, literally creating the work as you play it, those things remain pre-programmed with a limited number of options, and I don't think people are looking for the same thing when "playing" a work of art as they do when "consuming" it in a passive way, i.e. accepting an artists' choice and decision for what it is, as such. It's hard to predict the future but the tremendous success of video games for 40 years and the fact that it doesn't really competes with films and series suggests that one may never replace the other in terms of a consumers' experience.


i think fabrizio is talking about books that are especially designed to be published in digital format?

i haven't come across any of them yet as i only buy printed books.

but my brother had the digital version of "S" by Doug Dorst & JJ Abrams (yes, him), which looked
pretty stunning as it was all interactive and seemed to go well beyond a simple epub or mobi file.

however, the actual printed version still beats the digital one's ass, by a mile.

i've held off on Mark Z Danielweski's "The Familial" series but i can imagine that that series will be
extremely immersive in an interactive digital format, which is what i'm waiting on. although his
seminal "house of leaves", since it stretched the boundaries of what a book could be (and thus had
a huge influence on "S", i'm sure) is still the coolest, weirdest thing you could imagine, and it would
only lose a lot of it's appeal in whatever digital format you'd pour it into.

unlike music and movies, books are a very tactile beast, and despite them selling less and less,
i'm convinced that printed media is not going anywhere, anytime soon or even late. it'll become
more precious and elaborate and exclusive again, like it was in the past, which is actually a good
thing as far as books are concerned.

i mean, what would you prefer, this one, or the interactive digital one?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiJJ02RBEac


i know which one i prefer to hold in my hands smile

*although it has to be said that in the end, for all it's design and mystique, it's not that good of a book lol










[Edited 6/18/19 15:35pm]

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #524 posted 06/18/19 8:59pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

rdhull said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



You responded like a child and ignored the rest because you did not like the implications.

Lets be honest.

And those who bitch about the physical CD’s should be glad that the dying media is even supported, much less made fancier only for no one but an ungrateful minority buying them.


exhibit a, exactly my point, why’d I even bother further, Prince .org at its finest aka duh


And you’re part of its worst duh-bruh
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #525 posted 06/18/19 10:19pm

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #526 posted 06/18/19 11:42pm

udo

rdhull said:

Go get ‘em tiger!

.

Even bootleggars can do better!

So why can't Michael?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #527 posted 06/19/19 12:21am

Moonbeam

Can't wait to buy the CD on Friday. Going to be a blast playing it loud on the way to work!

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #528 posted 06/19/19 2:36am

antonb

Carnt believe that you didnt buy it when you could. i carnt wait to blast the cd out. Maybe its me, but cd still seems to sound better to me than off streamming

Reply #529 posted 06/19/19 7:23am

Genesia

BartVanHemelen said:

Review by Paste: https://www.pastemagazine...eview.html


Zach (the writer of this piece) needs to take a seat. Dissing Make-Up in the context of Something In the Water? No. Just...no.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #530 posted 06/19/19 7:23am

udo

I stream the FLACs to the Squeezebox, through a nice Chinese DAC and a Canadian amp...

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #531 posted 06/19/19 10:09am

timmie

Annoying the bonus song isn't available in Europe. Will have to get it anyway 😁.
Reply #532 posted 06/19/19 10:21am

stillwaiting

AMERICA1ST said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

stillwaiting said: Well the exclusive with Tidal was for a streaming service. The media how most people consume music. And Tidal as we all know is a company originally co-owned by a recording artist in Jay Z and a coalition or other recording artists themselves. So you can manufacture your argument any way you like, but doesn’t change that physical sales are a tiny fraction of how people consume music or how the industry makes money from music. [Edited 6/18/19 12:08pm]

Tidal is some bullshit in my opinion. There is a reason vinyl has been coming back recently. Some of us still like to have something in hand that we control and can play anywhere and anytime without subscription fees and internet bullshit. That Jay Z owns it makes me hate it even more.

Tidal has its place, as cds do. I can't say Jay Z is on my list of favorite people either, but I don't exactly hate him either. Funny how someone on here was laughing at me for buying cds in 2011, saying they won't be making them in five years...well, they still are. Even cassette tapes are being made. I like Vinyl too, but back on topic, Originals could have been better, but it is still a win for us. Sure, I wish it was not mastered for 18 year olds that love everything so loud it sounds distorted, and I would assume those who like bad mastering account for maybe 5% of potential Prince customers. They may as well overdub Tony M and Scrappy Doo on every song...but back to positivity: We get a release that is over 60 minutes, and likely as close to the orginal recording as we could get...and some great music. I'm trying to be more positive in my older years, but will never hold back my opinions.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #533 posted 06/19/19 11:13am

antonb

I dont understand the hate for Jay z? Prince wanted him to have his catalogue and work with him. So he carnt be that bad can he?
Reply #534 posted 06/19/19 11:39am

fabriziovenerandi

databank said:

Not sure what you mean. Epub and mobi files aren't websites. I know sites like Amazon only technically "stream" you the books, but there are ways to actually "rip" the books from them, and sites that actually offer the files themselves (whether legally or otherwise).

.

epub and mobi files are, more or less, zip archive. Inside you can find HTML and CSS files (and in EPUB3 Javascript too). All the ebooks in the world are minisites!

.

I only know Bandersnatch in the titles you mentionned, interactive arts is yet something else. Not sure how much future it has, it's a bit like the "choose your own adventure" books I used to play as a teen, they were cool but never came close to replace novels. In a way they're not so far removed from Trevor's suggestion to "remix your own Prince album from the multitracks" or, even, video games in the traditional sense of the term. Until maybe AI develops to the pojnt that it can adjust to one's own choices in real time and in an infinite manner of ways, literally creating the work as you play it, those things remain pre-programmed with a limited number of options, and I don't think people are looking for the same thing when "playing" a work of art as they do when "consuming" it in a passive way, i.e. accepting an artists' choice and decision for what it is, as such. It's hard to predict the future but the tremendous success of video games for 40 years and the fact that it doesn't really competes with films and series suggests that one may never replace the other in terms of a consumers' experience.

.

Uh, no, again biggrin

Afaik videogames in 2017 had a flood of 107 billion dollars. Movie "only" 88 billion dollars. And, not, electronic literature is not only CYOA. Electronic Literature is videogames, as generative music. In my last ebook of poems you can touch the poems, see the verses that change, hide, divide at the touch, change depending on the time of day when you read them. And more. So: the digital instrument could change the content and how the user benefits from the content.

.

f.

Reply #535 posted 06/19/19 11:48am

fabriziovenerandi

IstenSzek said:


i think fabrizio is talking about books that are especially designed to be published in digital format?

i haven't come across any of them yet as i only buy printed books.

but my brother had the digital version of "S" by Doug Dorst & JJ Abrams (yes, him), which looked
pretty stunning as it was all interactive and seemed to go well beyond a simple epub or mobi file.

however, the actual printed version still beats the digital one's ass, by a mile.

i've held off on Mark Z Danielweski's "The Familial" series but i can imagine that that series will be
extremely immersive in an interactive digital format, which is what i'm waiting on. although his
seminal "house of leaves", since it stretched the boundaries of what a book could be (and thus had
a huge influence on "S", i'm sure) is still the coolest, weirdest thing you could imagine, and it would
only lose a lot of it's appeal in whatever digital format you'd pour it into.

unlike music and movies, books are a very tactile beast, and despite them selling less and less,
i'm convinced that printed media is not going anywhere, anytime soon or even late. it'll become
more precious and elaborate and exclusive again, like it was in the past, which is actually a good
thing as far as books are concerned.

i mean, what would you prefer, this one, or the interactive digital one?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiJJ02RBEac


i know which one i prefer to hold in my hands smile

*although it has to be said that in the end, for all it's design and mystique, it's not that good of a book lol

[Edited 6/18/19 15:35pm]

.

You choose two wrong examples: "S." and "house of leaves" are two "interactive" book that can work fine only as paper ebook. A digital porting of "S." will surely be worse because "S." was created to take advantage of the book object.
Without wanting to, you're giving me reason: the media impacts the meaning, or rather, it can impact it if the author has expressly thought about the media at the time when he created his product.

Flac files or MP3 files are not real digital music: they are only data format to sell or share traditional music. I cited some message ago Tender Metal. Tender Metal is digital music: an album with some songs inside, and everytime you listen it, the songs change a little. Music, lyrics, isntruments, arrangements, everytime you have a different album with the same songs.

.

f.

Reply #536 posted 06/19/19 12:19pm

FrankieCoco1

timmie said:

Annoying the bonus song isn't available in Europe. Will have to get it anyway 😁.


I was hoping that ASDA have the same version as Target, but highly unlikely (in fact no chance). If the cinematic version of NC2U is different to what we’ve got, might have to seek out an import.
Reply #537 posted 06/19/19 12:51pm

SimonCharles

Genesia said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Review by Paste: https://www.pastemagazine...eview.html


Zach (the writer of this piece) needs to take a seat. Dissing Make-Up in the context of Something In the Water? No. Just...no.

I had precisely the same thought! Dissing Make-Up at all - a gorgeous tune. Dissing it and utilising Something In The Water...oh my days.

Words are like shoes...
Try my shoes on...
https://simoncwilliamsblo...press.com/
Reply #538 posted 06/19/19 1:23pm

IstenSzek

fabriziovenerandi said:

IstenSzek said:


i think fabrizio is talking about books that are especially designed to be published in digital format?

i haven't come across any of them yet as i only buy printed books.

but my brother had the digital version of "S" by Doug Dorst & JJ Abrams (yes, him), which looked
pretty stunning as it was all interactive and seemed to go well beyond a simple epub or mobi file.

however, the actual printed version still beats the digital one's ass, by a mile.

i've held off on Mark Z Danielweski's "The Familial" series but i can imagine that that series will be
extremely immersive in an interactive digital format, which is what i'm waiting on. although his
seminal "house of leaves", since it stretched the boundaries of what a book could be (and thus had
a huge influence on "S", i'm sure) is still the coolest, weirdest thing you could imagine, and it would
only lose a lot of it's appeal in whatever digital format you'd pour it into.

unlike music and movies, books are a very tactile beast, and despite them selling less and less,
i'm convinced that printed media is not going anywhere, anytime soon or even late. it'll become
more precious and elaborate and exclusive again, like it was in the past, which is actually a good
thing as far as books are concerned.

i mean, what would you prefer, this one, or the interactive digital one?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiJJ02RBEac


i know which one i prefer to hold in my hands smile

*although it has to be said that in the end, for all it's design and mystique, it's not that good of a book lol

[Edited 6/18/19 15:35pm]

.

You choose two wrong examples: "S." and "house of leaves" are two "interactive" book that can work fine only as paper ebook. A digital porting of "S." will surely be worse because "S." was created to take advantage of the book object.
Without wanting to, you're giving me reason: the media impacts the meaning, or rather, it can impact it if the author has expressly thought about the media at the time when he created his product.

Flac files or MP3 files are not real digital music: they are only data format to sell or share traditional music. I cited some message ago Tender Metal. Tender Metal is digital music: an album with some songs inside, and everytime you listen it, the songs change a little. Music, lyrics, isntruments, arrangements, everytime you have a different album with the same songs.

.

f.


interesting cool

no, i know that S and HOL were both created to take advantage of the book object, i think we lost
a little bit in translation there, between us smile

i agree with pretty much everything you wrote nod


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #539 posted 06/19/19 2:37pm

Genesia

SimonCharles said:

Genesia said:


Zach (the writer of this piece) needs to take a seat. Dissing Make-Up in the context of Something In the Water? No. Just...no.

I had precisely the same thought! Dissing Make-Up at all - a gorgeous tune. Dissing it and utilising Something In The Water...oh my days.


He dissed Something In The Water! omfg Saying something is like Something In The Water, but worse is a takedown of both.

Dude is a philistine. disbelief

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #540 posted 06/19/19 2:48pm

IstenSzek

Genesia said:

SimonCharles said:

I had precisely the same thought! Dissing Make-Up at all - a gorgeous tune. Dissing it and utilising Something In The Water...oh my days.


He dissed Something In The Water! omfg Saying something is like Something In The Water, but worse is a takedown of both.

Dude is a philistine. disbelief


obviously nobody has ever told zach that he's got great legs giggle


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #541 posted 06/19/19 2:55pm

rdhull

Genesia said:

SimonCharles said:

I had precisely the same thought! Dissing Make-Up at all - a gorgeous tune. Dissing it and utilising Something In The Water...oh my days.


He dissed Something In The Water!

WTF. Geezus. I wish everybody and their mama would stop writing about prince especially when they dont know wtf they're talking about.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #542 posted 06/19/19 5:16pm

EddieC

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

In my last ebook of poems you can touch the poems, see the verses that change, hide, divide at the touch, change depending on the time of day when you read them. And more. So: the digital instrument could change the content and how the user benefits from the content.

.

f.

Don't know why the type got so small--but I was really intrigued by your description... if only I had the Italian in order to experience the work.

Reply #543 posted 06/19/19 8:39pm

motherfunka

We get to listen to some of the tracks in Studio B this weekend for Paisley Park After Dark. Should be fun!

Reply #544 posted 06/19/19 10:31pm

spelchek

Early doors here in Blighty but I notice its appeared for sale i US itunes as of right now. Thought it was Friday? Anyway. i love it. Enjoy!!

Reply #545 posted 06/19/19 11:20pm

Moonbeam

Genesia said:

SimonCharles said:

I had precisely the same thought! Dissing Make-Up at all - a gorgeous tune. Dissing it and utilising Something In The Water...oh my days.


He dissed Something In The Water! omfg Saying something is like Something In The Water, but worse is a takedown of both.

Dude is a philistine. disbelief


Yes, I found that part curious and irksome as well, as "Something in the Water" may just be my favorite Prince song and "Make-Up" is one of my top 3 on Originals.

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
Reply #546 posted 06/20/19 12:27am

JorisE73

BartVanHemelen said:

Review by Paste: https://www.pastemagazine...eview.html


Thanks!
that reviewer however is nuts lol Make-up is the best track on the album in my opinion and he doesn't seem to like SOmething in the water also, one of the best tracks on 1999.

Reply #547 posted 06/20/19 2:34am

databank

fabriziovenerandi said:

databank said:

Not sure what you mean. Epub and mobi files aren't websites. I know sites like Amazon only technically "stream" you the books, but there are ways to actually "rip" the books from them, and sites that actually offer the files themselves (whether legally or otherwise).

.

epub and mobi files are, more or less, zip archive. Inside you can find HTML and CSS files (and in EPUB3 Javascript too). All the ebooks in the world are minisites!

Ah OK I didn't know that. Yet in the end the reading experience is the same. I know read exclusively on kindle and it doesn't change a thing for me.

.

I only know Bandersnatch in the titles you mentionned, interactive arts is yet something else. Not sure how much future it has, it's a bit like the "choose your own adventure" books I used to play as a teen, they were cool but never came close to replace novels. In a way they're not so far removed from Trevor's suggestion to "remix your own Prince album from the multitracks" or, even, video games in the traditional sense of the term. Until maybe AI develops to the pojnt that it can adjust to one's own choices in real time and in an infinite manner of ways, literally creating the work as you play it, those things remain pre-programmed with a limited number of options, and I don't think people are looking for the same thing when "playing" a work of art as they do when "consuming" it in a passive way, i.e. accepting an artists' choice and decision for what it is, as such. It's hard to predict the future but the tremendous success of video games for 40 years and the fact that it doesn't really competes with films and series suggests that one may never replace the other in terms of a consumers' experience.

.

Uh, no, again biggrin

Afaik videogames in 2017 had a flood of 107 billion dollars. Movie "only" 88 billion dollars.

OK, but I don't see that as a replacement. It'd be like saying that TV sports are replacing motion pictures because they get more ratings on TV for example. It's just another type of entertainment. Movies still enjoy tremendous popularity (Endgame is proof of that), and TV series are more popular than ever before. People may spend lots of time playing video games, but it didn't replace movies and series, it's just another medium.

.

And, not, electronic literature is not only CYOA. Electronic Literature is videogames, as generative music. In my last ebook of poems you can touch the poems, see the verses that change, hide, divide at the touch, change depending on the time of day when you read them. And more. So: the digital instrument could change the content and how the user benefits from the content.

.

I'm very interested in this even if I don't read italian, I'd love to see how it looks. Where can I purchase your book? Does it read on Kindle or do you need a tablet?

I'm also very curious about Tendermetal, is there a link for that?

Also, how are the changes in your book and Tendermetal decided, is it an algorythm? Is every part/option artist-generated or some are IA-generated?

I'm not sure how much of a future this type of project has, maybe they will remain rare or closer to contemporary art in the sens that they're more like performance/installation than a traditional book or record. Not sure how much people will want more of this, and how much technology can allow those to become more and more interesting. My point was that I think at some point people just want to be passive. We've enjoyed stories and arts in a passive way since the dawn of time even if there was always a certain level of interactivity allowed (like the audience interacting with a storyteller or people on stage). I think this is how we like arts, something decided from A to Z by an artist that we consume in a passive manner, but maybe I'm wrong.

Regarding Ship of Theseus mentionned above, IDK, maybe it's super nice but to me adding maps, postcards and videos to a book remains a gadget. A great novel doesn't need those types of extras to be catchy. Now in the case of your poetry book that's something else. I actually considered toying with such interactive poetry concepts some years ago but didn't really find a way to make it work and don't have the technical skills to program something myself, that's why I'm very interested to see the book, how it works and curious about how you did it nod

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #548 posted 06/20/19 3:45am

TheEnglishGent

Looks like this thread isn't the place to give my review of Something in the Water. Let's just say that the birthday show performance is one of my favourite Prince performances and I love, love, love it. The album version though... What can I say? Well, it's better than the atrocity that is Make Up. I swear I'm listening to a different version of that song than the rest of you. Easily the worst track on originals for me and it's not even close. I just don't get it. lol

RIP sad
Reply #549 posted 06/20/19 5:02am

fabriziovenerandi

IstenSzek said:


no, i know that S and HOL were both created to take advantage of the book object, i think we lost
a little bit in translation there, between us smile

i agree with pretty much everything you wrote nod


highfive

Reply #550 posted 06/20/19 5:22am

fabriziovenerandi

databank said:

Ah OK I didn't know that. Yet in the end the reading experience is the same. I know read exclusively on kindle and it doesn't change a thing for me.


.

You can see this in footnote: in ebook we have not footnotes but links, because there are no pages in HTML files (but we have anchor and links).

.

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

Uh, no, again biggrin

Afaik videogames in 2017 had a flood of 107 billion dollars. Movie "only" 88 billion dollars.

OK, but I don't see that as a replacement. It'd be like saying that TV sports are replacing motion pictures because they get more ratings on TV for example. It's just another type of entertainment. Movies still enjoy tremendous popularity (Endgame is proof of that), and TV series are more popular than ever before. People may spend lots of time playing video games, but it didn't replace movies and series, it's just another medium.

.

Oh, yes. I never talk about a "replacement", but the videogames impact in culture is very strong. For example movies like Edge of Tomorrow, or Hardcore Henry are strongly influenced by the aesthetics and language of video games.

.

I'm very interested in this even if I don't read italian, I'd love to see how it looks. Where can I purchase your book? Does it read on Kindle or do you need a tablet?

.

You could see a short video here: https://www.youtube.com/w...OKjn7UbbMM

.

I'm also very curious about Tendermetal, is there a link for that?

.

It is a iOs App, you could find it in Apple store.

.

Also, how are the changes in your book and Tendermetal decided, is it an algorythm? Is every part/option artist-generated or some are IA-generated?

.

There are different algorythms for each type of poem: some are random, some uses the time of the day, other uses reader touch. Tender Metal seems to me use random algorythm. BTW I ever desired Prince could use the Bronze technology tender Metal uses to make a infinite album... but was only a dream.

.

I'm not sure how much of a future this type of project has, maybe they will remain rare or closer to contemporary art in the sens that they're more like performance/installation than a traditional book or record. Not sure how much people will want more of this, and how much technology can allow those to become more and more interesting. My point was that I think at some point people just want to be passive. We've enjoyed stories and arts in a passive way since the dawn of time even if there was always a certain level of interactivity allowed (like the audience interacting with a storyteller or people on stage). I think this is how we like arts, something decided from A to Z by an artist that we consume in a passive manner, but maybe I'm wrong.

.

I don't know, I'm playing different "videogames" that are more electronic literature than "game". And a lot of people "play" those game. I broke my crystal ball several years ago (not the Prince cd).

.

Regarding Ship of Theseus mentionned above, IDK, maybe it's super nice but to me adding maps, postcards and videos to a book remains a gadget. A great novel doesn't need those types of extras to be catchy. Now in the case of your poetry book that's something else. I actually considered toying with such interactive poetry concepts some years ago but didn't really find a way to make it work and don't have the technical skills to program something myself, that's why I'm very interested to see the book, how it works and curious about how you did it nod

.

A great novel don't need it. A great interactive book, yes, it need it. All the materials present in "S." served me to enjoy the story, not just the story. Even those are rhetorical material, intertwining..

.

f.

Reply #551 posted 06/20/19 5:38am

antonb

i was hoping my copy would arrive today. no such luck! looks like i will either have to wait for amazon to deliver sometime tomorrow or go and buy a copy from hmv in the morning

Reply #552 posted 06/20/19 6:26am

fabriziovenerandi

My record store call me because my cd is just arrived. I'm going take it.

Reply #553 posted 06/20/19 7:48am

thedoorkeeper

Counting down the hours until I get this. biggrin biggrin biggrin
Reply #554 posted 06/20/19 8:10am

TrevorAyer

what is the abbreviation gonna be for this record .. O? .. OG? .. ORG?

AOA

HNR

HNR2

PNM83

O

... i don't know .. it feels like it needs a little something ..

Reply #555 posted 06/20/19 8:22am

thedoorkeeper

TrevorAyer said:

what is the abbreviation gonna be for this record .. O? .. OG? .. ORG?


AOA


HNR


HNR2


PNM83


O


... i don't know .. it feels like it needs a little something .. 


There you go - another thing the estate didn't think thru. razz
Reply #556 posted 06/20/19 8:50am

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #557 posted 06/20/19 9:14am

Ugot2shakesumthin

Great little gem of a time capsule. I’m glad to hear most of the reviews are overwhelming positive.

Though, some of these writers would do good not going into long-winded amateur psychoanalyzing.
Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #558 posted 06/20/19 9:31am

lurker316


I purchased the digital version of this album from iTunes. There was a bug where iTunes wouldn't download the final track, NC2U. I spent an hour on the phone with iTunes support.

What they suspect happened is that iTunes was confused because I'd bought the stand-alone version of this song that was released last year -- so iTunes thought I already had it. That shound not happen because the songs are on different albums, and therefore each version has a unique identifier associated with the different albums. To be clear, even if from a musical/content standpoint the files are identical, iTunes should still recognize them as different songs since they are on different albums with different metadata and artwork. Apple understands that customers may want two identical copies of the song if they want to ensure their albums are properly sequenced, and that's why each version has its own unique identifier associated with a specific album.

For example, this would be like if you purchased Purple Rain Deluxe and iTunes refused to include 17 Days because you already had a digital copy from The Hits/The B-sides. That should not happen. Even if the file is the same, they are on differennt albums with different metadata and artwork -- and iTunes assignes each its own unique product code -- so you should be able to download both copies of 17 Days to ensure that both albums (The Hits and PRD) are properly sequenced in your music library.

Anyway, the supervisory customer service rep who helped me was great. She eventually found a work-around and was able to download The Originals version of NC2U to my library. Nevertheless, she escalated the case to the engineers incase anyone else is having this problem, and because its such a mystery. (Obviously I could have edited the metadata and artwork for the stand-alone version of NC2U and got it to sequence with the Orginals, but I shouldn't have to do that. This is Apple -- they should be on the ball.)

[Edited 6/20/19 9:38am]

Reply #559 posted 06/20/19 9:46am

AvocadosMax

Someone said the CD is already on Target shelves? Is this true?
Reply #560 posted 06/20/19 9:47am

AvocadosMax

thedoorkeeper said:

TrevorAyer said:

what is the abbreviation gonna be for this record .. O? .. OG? .. ORG?


AOA


HNR


HNR2


PNM83


O


... i don't know .. it feels like it needs a little something .. 


There you go - another thing the estate didn't think thru. razz

I like ‘ORG’ lol
Reply #561 posted 06/20/19 9:49am

AvocadosMax

Next thing the estate should do is open a poll on this website and this website only and have us the hardcore fans vote on which tracks we want to hear the most and then they can just release 14 of the top tracks and there you go, that’s the ‘ORG’ album. It’s OUR album. We did it.
Reply #562 posted 06/20/19 9:57am

Genesia

lurker316 said:


I purchased the digital version of this album from iTunes. There was a bug where iTunes wouldn't download the final track, NC2U. I spent an hour on the phone with iTunes support.

What they suspect happened is that iTunes was confused because I'd bought the stand-alone version of this song that was released last year -- so iTunes thought I already had it. That shound not happen because the songs are on different albums, and therefore each version has a unique identifier associated with the different albums. To be clear, even if from a musical/content standpoint the files are identical, iTunes should still recognize them as different songs since they are on different albums with different metadata and artwork. Apple understands that customers may want two identical copies of the song if they want to ensure their albums are properly sequenced, and that's why each version has its own unique identifier associated with a specific album.

For example, this would be like if you purchased Purple Rain Deluxe and iTunes refused to include 17 Days because you already had a digital copy from The Hits/The B-sides. That should not happen. Even if the file is the same, they are on differennt albums with different metadata and artwork -- and iTunes assignes each its own unique product code -- so you should be able to download both copies of 17 Days to ensure that both albums (The Hits and PRD) are properly sequenced in your music library.

Anyway, the supervisory customer service rep who helped me was great. She eventually found a work-around and was able to download The Originals version of NC2U to my library. Nevertheless, she escalated the case to the engineers incase anyone else is having this problem, and because its such a mystery. (Obviously I could have edited the metadata and artwork for the stand-alone version of NC2U and got it to sequence with the Orginals, but I shouldn't have to do that. This is Apple -- they should be on the ball.)


This is really good to know. I ordered the white vinyl LP of Originals, but also plan to get the digital version from iTunes (since I don't feel like ripping the vinyl). Thank you!

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #563 posted 06/20/19 10:02am

sulls

I ordered from the Estate, but if it's at Target today, I think I'll mosey on over there and get a copy of the 'exclusive'.

"I like to watch."
Reply #564 posted 06/20/19 10:05am

Genesia

sulls said:

I ordered from the Estate, but if it's at Target today, I think I'll mosey on over there and get a copy of the 'exclusive'.


Help me out, please (so I don't have to dig through a million posts) - what is different about the Target version?

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #565 posted 06/20/19 10:09am

motherfunka

Genesia said:

sulls said:

I ordered from the Estate, but if it's at Target today, I think I'll mosey on over there and get a copy of the 'exclusive'.


Help me out, please (so I don't have to dig through a million posts) - what is different about the Target version?

Extra "cinematic" version of Nothing Compares 2 U. Whatever that is! lol

Reply #566 posted 06/20/19 10:12am

AvocadosMax

motherfunka said:

 



Genesia said:


 



sulls said:


I ordered from the Estate, but if it's at Target today, I think I'll mosey on over there and get a copy of the 'exclusive'. 




Help me out, please (so I don't have to dig through a million posts) - what is different about the Target version?



 


Extra "cinematic" version of Nothing Compares 2 U.  Whatever that is!  lol


Could it be the Prince vocal version of the Claire Fischer strings version?
Reply #567 posted 06/20/19 10:12am

djThunderfunk

lurker316 said:


I purchased the digital version of this album from iTunes. There was a bug where iTunes wouldn't download the final track, NC2U. I spent an hour on the phone with iTunes support.

What they suspect happened is that iTunes was confused because I'd bought the stand-alone version of this song that was released last year -- so iTunes thought I already had it. That shound not happen because the songs are on different albums, and therefore each version has a unique identifier associated with the different albums. To be clear, even if from a musical/content standpoint the files are identical, iTunes should still recognize them as different songs since they are on different albums with different metadata and artwork. Apple understands that customers may want two identical copies of the song if they want to ensure their albums are properly sequenced, and that's why each version has its own unique identifier associated with a specific album.

For example, this would be like if you purchased Purple Rain Deluxe and iTunes refused to include 17 Days because you already had a digital copy from The Hits/The B-sides. That should not happen. Even if the file is the same, they are on differennt albums with different metadata and artwork -- and iTunes assignes each its own unique product code -- so you should be able to download both copies of 17 Days to ensure that both albums (The Hits and PRD) are properly sequenced in your music library.

Anyway, the supervisory customer service rep who helped me was great. She eventually found a work-around and was able to download The Originals version of NC2U to my library. Nevertheless, she escalated the case to the engineers incase anyone else is having this problem, and because its such a mystery. (Obviously I could have edited the metadata and artwork for the stand-alone version of NC2U and got it to sequence with the Orginals, but I shouldn't have to do that. This is Apple -- they should be on the ball.)

[Edited 6/20/19 9:38am]



Imagine if tomorrow when I buy the CD from Target I came home to find that NC2U was missing because I bought the 7" last year....

Except that would be impossible.

Another reason to buy physical copies?

wink

Glad they were able to work it out for you, but, not worth the hassle imo.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #568 posted 06/20/19 10:14am

djThunderfunk

sulls said:

I ordered from the Estate, but if it's at Target today, I think I'll mosey on over there and get a copy of the 'exclusive'.


Because someone above claimed Target was selling it earlier in the weak, I checked yesterday. No such luck at my store.


"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #569 posted 06/20/19 10:31am

stillwaiting

AvocadosMax said:

Next thing the estate should do is open a poll on this website and this website only and have us the hardcore fans vote on which tracks we want to hear the most and then they can just release 14 of the top tracks and there you go, that’s the ‘ORG’ album. It’s OUR album. We did it.

They might just say top 10, so they can release one album a year for more years. The thought of a big box set has never crossed their minds...imagine getting his most hard core fans something they might spend $100 for an 8 cd set, $300 for 25 discs? Yeah, I know cds won't exist in a few, but unless FLAC catches on, I don't want lossy MP3 files of everything. The estate really should consult a real fan. Troy Carter has about as much passion for Prince as I do for liver and onions.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #570 posted 06/20/19 10:42am

Genesia

AvocadosMax said:

motherfunka said:

Extra "cinematic" version of Nothing Compares 2 U. Whatever that is! lol

Could it be the Prince vocal version of the Claire Fischer strings version?

Clare actually might be worth buying yet ANOTHER version of this. Thanks, guys!

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #571 posted 06/20/19 11:28am

Se7en

Forgive me is this has been posted before - I know Bart has been pretty good about posting all the articles.

This one is from NME, and this quote from the article stood out to me:

"On the eve of the release of the new album, NME were invited to an exclusive listening event featuring a live Q&A with Michael Howe, the man tasked with archiving the purple one’s mythical vault and all of its contents – reportedly thousands and thousands of unreleased recordings, mostly on cassette. After listening to a portion of the new album, we sat down with Howe to find out more about Prince, the vault, and how ‘Originals’ came to be."

https://www.nme.com/blogs...KMN1r_hO_4

[Edited 6/20/19 11:29am]

Reply #572 posted 06/20/19 11:40am

lurker316


Speaking of cassetts, has Kares weighed into say what media he believes were used to source the tracks on this album? I know he had very strong ideas about the media that was used for the previous posthumous releases.


Reply #573 posted 06/20/19 11:45am

AvocadosMax

Ok folks so I did some investigative work and I found that while (apparently) SOME Targets are selling Originals (Target Exclusive) early, most aren’t because they’re technically not allowed to sell it yet.

So I went to my local Target, went to the new CDs area, and I saw the labels for “Prince Originals” and the exclusive one. None were there. So I asked a nice young lady (we actually had a calculus class together earlier this year lol) and she told me the had already sold out!! Then she told me that the other Target (about 15 minutes away) has 17 copies.
Of course I drive out and I see no labels or anything. Asked the guy in electronics and he said that they shouldn’t have been selling them before the official release date! “It won’t even scan or allow us to sell it until the date that’s in the system”

So damn close to having it today. I can’t even shop tomorrow ‘cause I work tomorrow
Reply #574 posted 06/20/19 11:48am

rdhull

Se7en said:

Forgive me is this has been posted before - I know Bart has been pretty good about posting all the articles.

This one is from NME, and this quote from the article stood out to me:

"On the eve of the release of the new album, NME were invited to an exclusive listening event featuring a live Q&A with Michael Howe, the man tasked with archiving the purple one’s mythical vault and all of its contents – reportedly thousands and thousands of unreleased recordings, mostly on cassette. After listening to a portion of the new album, we sat down with Howe to find out more about Prince, the vault, and how ‘Originals’ came to be."

https://www.nme.com/blogs...KMN1r_hO_4

[Edited 6/20/19 11:29am]

I hope they were Maxell and not TDK

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #575 posted 06/20/19 11:53am

Genesia

rdhull said:

Se7en said:

Forgive me is this has been posted before - I know Bart has been pretty good about posting all the articles.

This one is from NME, and this quote from the article stood out to me:

"On the eve of the release of the new album, NME were invited to an exclusive listening event featuring a live Q&A with Michael Howe, the man tasked with archiving the purple one’s mythical vault and all of its contents – reportedly thousands and thousands of unreleased recordings, mostly on cassette. After listening to a portion of the new album, we sat down with Howe to find out more about Prince, the vault, and how ‘Originals’ came to be."

https://www.nme.com/blogs...KMN1r_hO_4

[Edited 6/20/19 11:29am]

I hope they were Maxell and not TDK


Even when I was young and broke, I always ponied up for Maxell.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
Reply #576 posted 06/20/19 11:56am

djThunderfunk

AvocadosMax said:

Ok folks so I did some investigative work and I found that while (apparently) SOME Targets are selling Originals (Target Exclusive) early, most aren’t because they’re technically not allowed to sell it yet. So I went to my local Target, went to the new CDs area, and I saw the labels for “Prince Originals” and the exclusive one. None were there. So I asked a nice young lady (we actually had a calculus class together earlier this year lol) and she told me the had already sold out!! Then she told me that the other Target (about 15 minutes away) has 17 copies. Of course I drive out and I see no labels or anything. Asked the guy in electronics and he said that they shouldn’t have been selling them before the official release date! “It won’t even scan or allow us to sell it until the date that’s in the system” So damn close to having it today. I can’t even shop tomorrow ‘cause I work tomorrow


THIS is the way it's been for years with corporate retail and release dates. Anytime some dummy employee puts something out early (which does happen a lot) it's caught at the register which won't allow it to be rung up until the date. Usually when people talk about getting something at "X" store early it was at best due to employee shenanigans or at worst theft. Just sayin'....

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #577 posted 06/20/19 11:57am

fabriziovenerandi

I took my cd's copy today in Genova: nothing different from screenshots someone shared some days ago via twitter.

Reply #578 posted 06/20/19 11:59am

AvocadosMax

djThunderfunk said:

 



AvocadosMax said:


Ok folks so I did some investigative work and I found that while (apparently) SOME Targets are selling Originals (Target Exclusive) early, most aren’t because they’re technically not allowed to sell it yet. So I went to my local Target, went to the new CDs area, and I saw the labels for “Prince Originals” and the exclusive one. None were there. So I asked a nice young lady (we actually had a calculus class together earlier this year lol) and she told me the had already sold out!! Then she told me that the other Target (about 15 minutes away) has 17 copies. Of course I drive out and I see no labels or anything. Asked the guy in electronics and he said that they shouldn’t have been selling them before the official release date! “It won’t even scan or allow us to sell it until the date that’s in the system” So damn close to having it today. I can’t even shop tomorrow ‘cause I work tomorrow


THIS is the way it's been for years with corporate retail and release dates. Anytime some dummy employee puts something out early (which does happen a lot) it's caught at the register which won't allow it to be rung up until the date. Usually when people talk about getting something at "X" store early it was at best due to employee shenanigans or at worst theft. Just sayin'....


Man I talked to at the other store said he gonna call corporate. Someone’s bout to be fired lol
Reply #579 posted 06/20/19 12:27pm

stillwaiting

AvocadosMax said:

djThunderfunk said:


THIS is the way it's been for years with corporate retail and release dates. Anytime some dummy employee puts something out early (which does happen a lot) it's caught at the register which won't allow it to be rung up until the date. Usually when people talk about getting something at "X" store early it was at best due to employee shenanigans or at worst theft. Just sayin'....

Man I talked to at the other store said he gonna call corporate. Someone’s bout to be fired lol

It depends. Some stores still follow the "old school" rules and worry about early releases, from back in the day when cds moved a lot. Now that cd sales are not that big, the record companies don't usually enforce it anymore, because they really don't care, so no shock some are leaking. If Originals was going to sell 9,000,000 copies, maybe...but 50,000 is even a wild guess for sales. Some of the kids working in the stores have never even owned a cd, so doubt they care if it is stocked early.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #580 posted 06/20/19 12:42pm

djThunderfunk

stillwaiting said:

AvocadosMax said:

djThunderfunk said: Man I talked to at the other store said he gonna call corporate. Someone’s bout to be fired lol

It depends. Some stores still follow the "old school" rules and worry about early releases, from back in the day when cds moved a lot. Now that cd sales are not that big, the record companies don't usually enforce it anymore, because they really don't care, so no shock some are leaking. If Originals was going to sell 9,000,000 copies, maybe...but 50,000 is even a wild guess for sales. Some of the kids working in the stores have never even owned a cd, so doubt they care if it is stocked early.


It would be more than just stocking early. The register would catch it as a pre-release date and refuse to ring it up. In most of these situations management cannot even over-ride the sale at the register.


"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #581 posted 06/20/19 12:51pm

bfunk

I'll never forget buying multiple copies of Ultimate at Wal-Mart like 3 months early.

Reply #582 posted 06/20/19 1:09pm

stillwaiting

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

It depends. Some stores still follow the "old school" rules and worry about early releases, from back in the day when cds moved a lot. Now that cd sales are not that big, the record companies don't usually enforce it anymore, because they really don't care, so no shock some are leaking. If Originals was going to sell 9,000,000 copies, maybe...but 50,000 is even a wild guess for sales. Some of the kids working in the stores have never even owned a cd, so doubt they care if it is stocked early.


It would be more than just stocking early. The register would catch it as a pre-release date and refuse to ring it up. In most of these situations management cannot even over-ride the sale at the register.


That happened to me at Best Buy for U2 Live in Chicago DVD, but for the Ultimate Prince that was pulled from the shelves for a bit, was sold to me at the same Best Buy, so this is not like some life or death matter to retailers as it was back in the day...the reason so many have posted pictures on facebook, is some retailers...Target included, just could care less. As much as it hurts me to say it, music is just not what it once was. I'm glad to have grown up when it meant something...it is just background noise now for a lot of kids...no music programs in schools, auto tune being defined as an art...hell even Prince used it, U2 used it, and sadly George Michael used it, but gladly, not too much...and even Paul McCartney has

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #583 posted 06/20/19 1:15pm

djThunderfunk

bfunk said:

I'll never forget buying multiple copies of Ultimate at Wal-Mart like 3 months early.


I don't know if the computers/registers were set up to prevent such a thing in 2006 as they are now, or not, but that was a different situation. From Princevault:

"Once his new album, 3121, was announced with the same release date, Ultimate was postponed (it is unclear if Warner Bros. or Prince wanted this postponement). The packaging for Ultimate was finalized, printed and CD’s were pressed and distributed to wholesalers; with a recall on such short notice over a 1,000 copies ended up in shops and being sold in the US, Australia mid March 2006, and in Greece a month later (on 17 April 2006)."


http://www.princevault.co...:_Ultimate



"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #584 posted 06/20/19 1:27pm

stillwaiting

djThunderfunk said:

bfunk said:

I'll never forget buying multiple copies of Ultimate at Wal-Mart like 3 months early.


I don't know if the computers/registers were set up to prevent such a thing in 2006 as they are now, or not, but that was a different situation. From Princevault:

"Once his new album, 3121, was announced with the same release date, Ultimate was postponed (it is unclear if Warner Bros. or Prince wanted this postponement). The packaging for Ultimate was finalized, printed and CD’s were pressed and distributed to wholesalers; with a recall on such short notice over a 1,000 copies ended up in shops and being sold in the US, Australia mid March 2006, and in Greece a month later (on 17 April 2006)."


http://www.princevault.co...:_Ultimate



I understand. I actually had Ultimate two or three days before the release, and then it was gone for about a month. I'm just saying the reason so many have Originals now, is music is not important to most under 30, so if a few hundred get sold early, it's not like some national emergency like if the next I Phone was sold ten days early at an Apple Store... sad

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #585 posted 06/20/19 1:36pm

djThunderfunk

It does matter to Tidal and Warners. It does matter to Target corporate. It probably does not matter to the average Target employee, which is why corporate has measures to prevent mistakes and why employees can be fired for circumventing such measures.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #586 posted 06/20/19 2:14pm

AvocadosMax

If it was a Target employee, I’m betting it was one of the older managers lol definitely not the girl i know who works there. She pointed out the Billie Eilish album. “I didn’t know we had her here”
Then I was like “oh yeah that’s been out” for a good 3 months
Reply #587 posted 06/20/19 2:16pm

AvocadosMax

It should matter since the album is suppose to release tomorrow, and she said this specific store isn’t expected to get any copies “until June the 30th”
Reply #588 posted 06/20/19 2:17pm

rdhull

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:


It would be more than just stocking early. The register would catch it as a pre-release date and refuse to ring it up. In most of these situations management cannot even over-ride the sale at the register.


That happened to me at Best Buy for U2 Live in Chicago DVD, but for the Ultimate Prince that was pulled from the shelves for a bit, was sold to me at the same Best Buy, so this is not like some life or death matter to retailers as it was back in the day...the reason so many have posted pictures on facebook, is some retailers...Target included, just could care less. As much as it hurts me to say it, music is just not what it once was. I'm glad to have grown up when it meant something...it is just background noise now for a lot of kids...no music programs in schools, auto tune being defined as an art...hell even Prince used it, U2 used it, and sadly George Michael used it, but gladly, not too much...and even Paul McCartney has

Thats the result of the music being so readily available now (streaming etc.). It's like it's been devalued overall since it is easily accessibly and reduced tangibles (records, artwork, and such).

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #589 posted 06/20/19 2:22pm

AvocadosMax

This is why Target exclusives suck. Why couldn’t they just make the “Cinematic Mix” the b-side to LAST YEAR’s single instead of that unnecessary edit? Just retarded waste of a b-side. Almost worse than a crappy remix..
Reply #590 posted 06/20/19 3:25pm

IstenSzek

this reminds me, i should delete my tidal account smile

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #591 posted 06/20/19 4:08pm

stillwaiting

rdhull said:

stillwaiting said:

That happened to me at Best Buy for U2 Live in Chicago DVD, but for the Ultimate Prince that was pulled from the shelves for a bit, was sold to me at the same Best Buy, so this is not like some life or death matter to retailers as it was back in the day...the reason so many have posted pictures on facebook, is some retailers...Target included, just could care less. As much as it hurts me to say it, music is just not what it once was. I'm glad to have grown up when it meant something...it is just background noise now for a lot of kids...no music programs in schools, auto tune being defined as an art...hell even Prince used it, U2 used it, and sadly George Michael used it, but gladly, not too much...and even Paul McCartney has

Thats the result of the music being so readily available now (streaming etc.). It's like it's been devalued overall since it is easily accessibly and reduced tangibles (records, artwork, and such).

I think some people think there is some huge meeting with executives where they are detailing out the mass destruction to the known industry should something leak a day or two early... and the severe consequnces. Well, those days are gone. Nobody cares. I doubt CNN is going to do a five hour special on consequences of selling a release early. I don't think the NBA draft tonight will be interrupted with a news flash about Target selling a few cds on the wrong day. The 20 year old making 11 an hour at Target will get a Manager to do an override if the customer complains enough. Warners and Target are not going to close down over Prince. I wish it was that important, but this release will be lucky to sell 50,000. What did Phase One do at first? 11,000? Maybe a few more after P's sad passing...

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #592 posted 06/20/19 5:00pm

djThunderfunk

stillwaiting said:

rdhull said:

Thats the result of the music being so readily available now (streaming etc.). It's like it's been devalued overall since it is easily accessibly and reduced tangibles (records, artwork, and such).

I think some people think there is some huge meeting with executives where they are detailing out the mass destruction to the known industry should something leak a day or two early... and the severe consequnces. Well, those days are gone. Nobody cares. I doubt CNN is going to do a five hour special on consequences of selling a release early. I don't think the NBA draft tonight will be interrupted with a news flash about Target selling a few cds on the wrong day. The 20 year old making 11 an hour at Target will get a Manager to do an override if the customer complains enough. Warners and Target are not going to close down over Prince. I wish it was that important, but this release will be lucky to sell 50,000. What did Phase One do at first? 11,000? Maybe a few more after P's sad passing...


falloff lol lol

I don't think anyone is suggesting this is CNN-worthy, LOL!

It's not even about just music, though. It's about DVDs & Blurays, it's about books and it's about video games. There's a lot of room between "nobody cares" and CNN doing a "five hour special".

Target as a corporation cares because the media companies they deal with care because contractual obligation require them to care. They set up the computer codes to not allow the sale to go through or for an over-ride to allow early sales to prevent "20 year olds" and "managers" alike from being able to make decisions that go against these policies.

Of course there are leaks, and theft and usually ways to work around the system. That's not going to stop, and of course, most people don't care. But usually, if you see something in a big box retail chain put out early and take it to the register the odds are the sale won't go through.


"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #593 posted 06/20/19 5:51pm

stillwaiting

djThunderfunk said:

passing...


falloff lol lol

I don't think anyone is suggesting this is CNN-worthy, LOL!




My sarcasm is a bit out of control today, but you are not the only one with your opinion. I tried to buy it at my Target, but was too lazy to go to one further away. I hope the cd sounds better than the Tidal version, but doubt it will. Stupid that the deluxe is not released at the same time.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #594 posted 06/20/19 7:13pm

Ugot2shakesumthin

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:


falloff lol lol

I don't think anyone is suggesting this is CNN-worthy, LOL!




My sarcasm is a bit out of control today, but you are not the only one with your opinion. I tried to buy it at my Target, but was too lazy to go to one further away. I hope the cd sounds better than the Tidal version, but doubt it will. Stupid that the deluxe is not released at the same time.


I got what you were saying. You’re absolutely right about the reality of the music world.

Persistent Turd is the shit.
Reply #595 posted 06/20/19 7:22pm

djThunderfunk

stillwaiting said:

My sarcasm is a bit out of control today, but you are not the only one with your opinion. I tried to buy it at my Target, but was too lazy to go to one further away. I hope the cd sounds better than the Tidal version, but doubt it will. Stupid that the deluxe is not released at the same time.



I totally expect the CD to sound exactly the same as the digital, but I have hopes that the vinyl will sound better.

Too bad we won't know for a few more weeks.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #596 posted 06/20/19 8:07pm

sulls

Well, I ended up postponing my trip to Target until tomorrow. I did try to convince the wife that we should go, and when I told her why, she lost her shit. BUYING TWO OF THE SAME CD?! I told her about the Target exclusive song. WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST WAIT AND BUY IT AT TARGET??? She just doesn't understand... Actually, I've been trying to score the Japanese SHM mini lps from ebay as of late and that's what's really drawn her ire. Me and my Prince collection are about to be homeless. lol lol lol lol

"I like to watch."
Reply #597 posted 06/20/19 8:10pm

rdhull

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

My sarcasm is a bit out of control today, but you are not the only one with your opinion. I tried to buy it at my Target, but was too lazy to go to one further away. I hope the cd sounds better than the Tidal version, but doubt it will. Stupid that the deluxe is not released at the same time.



I totally expect the CD to sound exactly the same as the digital, but I have hopes that the vinyl will sound better.

Too bad we won't know for a few more weeks.

The Itunes sound seems way better than Tidal. Thats why I am getting the cd (besides wanting tangible copy).

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #598 posted 06/20/19 8:15pm

rdhull

sulls said:

Well, I ended up postponing my trip to Target until tomorrow. I did try to convince the wife that we should go, and when I told her why, she lost her shit. BUYING TWO OF THE SAME CD?! I told her about the Target exclusive song. WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST WAIT AND BUY IT AT TARGET??? She just doesn't understand... Actually, I've been trying to score the Japanese SHM mini lps from ebay as of late and that's what's really drawn her ire. Me and my Prince collection are about to be homeless. lol lol lol lol

Target had 14 on the floor but nobody could find them, even in the back. I tried to be slick by having them sell it a day early but no dice. The 24 year old associate hadn't heard of Prince music and I played some overplayed songs on my phone for him. Still nada. He also stated he appreciated Princes's fashion sense but thought he copied Michael Jackson. I asked him if anyone heard of Prince and another young associate who came by said he had just was listening to SOTT and that the new one or the SOTT was a black cover. Jesus (and I) wept.


.

[Edited 6/20/19 20:34pm]

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
Reply #599 posted 06/20/19 9:44pm

WhisperingDandelions

Wonder if this Target exclusive is actually something worthwhile. I want to believe....

[Edited 6/20/19 21:45pm]

Reply #600 posted 06/20/19 10:37pm

BartVanHemelen

From https://www.facebook.com/...861791221/ :

.

The "Cinematic Mix" of "Nothing Compares 2 U" (on Target & Japan CDs of #Originals) is amazing. First verse is just #Prince vocals and strings! Strings are more prominent in the mix throughout.

.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #601 posted 06/20/19 10:55pm

databank

BartVanHemelen said:

From https://www.facebook.com/...861791221/ :

.

The "Cinematic Mix" of "Nothing Compares 2 U" (on Target & Japan CDs of #Originals) is amazing. First verse is just #Prince vocals and strings! Strings are more prominent in the mix throughout.

.

clapping More encouragement for the Estate to mess with the tracks. Can't wait for Erotic City (House Mix) and When Doves Cry (Trap Mix feat. Niki Minaj) duh

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #602 posted 06/20/19 11:05pm

mediumdry

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

From https://www.facebook.com/...861791221/ :

.

.

clapping More encouragement for the Estate to mess with the tracks. Can't wait for Erotic City (House Mix) and When Doves Cry (Trap Mix feat. Niki Minaj) duh

.

Anything that gets Prince's vocals on a mix closer to what was on the Family album is a good thing, as much as it is messing with things. To me, the version they have released was messing with the track. I hope they'll improve on that.

Reply #603 posted 06/20/19 11:13pm

iveivan

Is this on streaming outside of Tidal as yet?
Reply #604 posted 06/20/19 11:19pm

databank

mediumdry said:

databank said:

clapping More encouragement for the Estate to mess with the tracks. Can't wait for Erotic City (House Mix) and When Doves Cry (Trap Mix feat. Niki Minaj) duh

.

Anything that gets Prince's vocals on a mix closer to what was on the Family album is a good thing, as much as it is messing with things. To me, the version they have released was messing with the track. I hope they'll improve on that.

Well IDK, should they attempt to recreate the unreleased Family version (as they did on #1) or the final version (as they apparently did on #2)? Makes no difference to me, really.

However this brings me to wonder. If, as assumed so far, they only had a cassette mixdown of P's version then how could they possibly have the first verse with only Prince's vocals and the orchestra on the Cinematic Mix? I don't think there's any technology that allows them to isolate the vocals from everything else yet get a clean result, which could mean that either they do have a multitrack and used it there, or that the version on Originals is, in fact, not exactly the same as the one released last year (cassette last year, multitrack here), or that it was never a cassette in the first place.

Kares and Olb99, when you hear the Cinematic version I'd really like to have your take on this.

[Edited 6/20/19 23:20pm]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #605 posted 06/20/19 11:40pm

mediumdry

databank said:

Well IDK, should they attempt to recreate the unreleased Family version (as they did on #1) or the final version (as they apparently did on #2)? Makes no difference to me, really.

.

Seeing as I love the Family album version (#2) and think the #1 version is vastly inferior, I'd say they should attempt the officially released version as that is how Prince saw the song. (knowing full well that to Prince a song was always a living thing that could change in any direction and released (or even unreleased but mixed and mastered) versions were always just a reflection of that time, but I will make whatever argument to get the version I want) razz

However this brings me to wonder. If, as assumed so far, they only had a cassette mixdown of P's version then how could they possibly have the first verse with only Prince's vocals and the orchestra on the Cinematic Mix? I don't think there's any technology that allows them to isolate the vocals from everything else yet get a clean result, which could mean that either they do have a multitrack and used it there, or that the version on Originals is, in fact, not exactly the same as the one released last year (cassette last year, multitrack here), or that it was never a cassette in the first place.

Kares and Olb99, when you hear the Cinematic version I'd really like to have your take on this.

[Edited 6/20/19 23:20pm]

.

Didn't they say that they found the 24 track recording and mixed the single version from that? Like you, I wish there was more transparency about what they have and how the released versions were created. The mixes on Originals are simply odd for a few of the tracks. (and contain parts that Prince muted in all mixes of the songs that circulate)

Reply #606 posted 06/20/19 11:47pm

fabriziovenerandi

BartVanHemelen said:

From https://www.facebook.com/...861791221/ :

.

The "Cinematic Mix" of "Nothing Compares 2 U" (on Target & Japan CDs of #Originals) is amazing. First verse is just #Prince vocals and strings! Strings are more prominent in the mix throughout.

.

.

I can confirm, I have just listened it. Voice + strings in first 1:15 (more or less), and all instruments in the last section of the song, but with strings more preminent than regular version.

Reply #607 posted 06/21/19 12:36am

databank

mediumdry said:

databank said:

Well IDK, should they attempt to recreate the unreleased Family version (as they did on #1) or the final version (as they apparently did on #2)? Makes no difference to me, really.

.

Seeing as I love the Family album version (#2) and think the #1 version is vastly inferior,

I'd say they should attempt the officially released version as that is how Prince saw the song.

How Prince saw the song was with Paul on vocals. It's not about how Prince saw the song, it's about how he left it on any given day before it was overdubbed and reworked on another day.

.

(knowing full well that to Prince a song was always a living thing that could change in any direction and released (or even unreleased but mixed and mastered) versions were always just a reflection of that time, but I will make whatever argument to get the version I want) razz

lol lol lol At least you're honest about your bad faith and not trying to bamboozle people, I appreciate that lol

However, I must again emphasize the fact that, as far as I'm concerned, what anyone "likes" or "prefers" or "wants" is totally irrelevant when it comes to preserving, releasing let alone altering Prince's works, whether it's about opening the vault or "improving" TGE by removing synthesizer parts as suggested above. Our personal preferences give us no moral right whatsoever to interfere with other people's work.

However this brings me to wonder. If, as assumed so far, they only had a cassette mixdown of P's version then how could they possibly have the first verse with only Prince's vocals and the orchestra on the Cinematic Mix? I don't think there's any technology that allows them to isolate the vocals from everything else yet get a clean result, which could mean that either they do have a multitrack and used it there, or that the version on Originals is, in fact, not exactly the same as the one released last year (cassette last year, multitrack here), or that it was never a cassette in the first place.

Kares and Olb99, when you hear the Cinematic version I'd really like to have your take on this.

[Edited 6/20/19 23:20pm]

.

Didn't they say that they found the 24 track recording and mixed the single version from that? Like you, I wish there was more transparency about what they have and how the released versions were created. The mixes on Originals are simply odd for a few of the tracks. (and contain parts that Prince muted in all mixes of the songs that circulate)

AFAIK Howe wasn't that specific last year. He just said they found "it" in the vault. I will publish an account of everything I found, if I find anything more at all, in a month or two. Don't hold your breath though, I doubt I'll be able to come-up with anything 100% conclusive.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #608 posted 06/21/19 12:38am

antonb

Just called at Sainburys and tesco music section hoping to pick up a copy, no chance! Nothing! Good job Warners UK! Will have to make a trip to hmv later in hope they actually with have some out. Sorry I'm venting cuss I'm out driving all day so want to blast it out on cd!

Reply #609 posted 06/21/19 1:19am

TheEnglishGent

antonb said:

Just called at Sainburys and tesco music section hoping to pick up a copy, no chance! Nothing! Good job Warners UK! Will have to make a trip to hmv later in hope they actually with have some out. Sorry I'm venting cuss I'm out driving all day so want to blast it out on cd!

I just ordered mine form Amazon, so it'll be there when I get home. In the mean time, I've deleted the awful Tidal app as it's available on Apple Music now. biggrin

RIP sad
Reply #610 posted 06/21/19 2:01am

lottusflower

fabriziovenerandi said:

BartVanHemelen said:

From https://www.facebook.com/...861791221/ :

.

.

.

I can confirm, I have just listened it. Voice + strings in first 1:15 (more or less), and all instruments in the last section of the song, but with strings more preminent than regular version.

where can i hear it???

[Edited 6/21/19 2:02am]

Reply #611 posted 06/21/19 2:11am

BartVanHemelen

lottusflower said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

I can confirm, I have just listened it. Voice + strings in first 1:15 (more or less), and all instruments in the last section of the song, but with strings more preminent than regular version.

where can i hear it???

[Edited 6/21/19 2:02am]

.

ON THE BLOODY CD.

.

Sheesh.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #612 posted 06/21/19 2:15am

amokeru

It is already Friday night here in Japan!
Reply #613 posted 06/21/19 2:27am

TheEnglishGent

BartVanHemelen said:

lottusflower said:

where can i hear it???

[Edited 6/21/19 2:02am]

.

ON THE BLOODY CD.

.

Sheesh.

Not on any CD though, isn't it just the Japanese release and the one on sale in Target in the USA? Nowhere to buy it in the UK as far as I know. Apart form importing, obviously.

RIP sad
Reply #614 posted 06/21/19 2:28am

Ramzoo

amokeru said:

It is already Friday night here in Japan!

So you had the chance to listen to the CD with the bonus track: right? Or maybe the LP, with the booklet? Interesting?

I ordered my CD from Japan (beautiful country by the way).

Reply #615 posted 06/21/19 2:32am

lottusflower

Deleted - l'ange bleu - moderator

Reply #616 posted 06/21/19 3:00am

JorisE73

iveivan said:

Is this on streaming outside of Tidal as yet?


It's on SPotify at least.

Reply #617 posted 06/21/19 3:01am

udo

amokeru said:

It is already Friday night here in Japan!

.

Great time for a beer!

The 'normal' originals CD should arrive here (Netherlands) today.

I'll try to locate a preview to decide whether I need the Japansese/Target release.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #618 posted 06/21/19 3:08am

udo

Update!

.

The CD is here.

I have seen the photos already so I know what is lacking w.r.t. the packaging.

So there is no need to open it.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #619 posted 06/21/19 3:08am

databank

BartVanHemelen said:

lottusflower said:

where can i hear it???

[Edited 6/21/19 2:02am]

.

ON THE BLOODY CD.

.

Sheesh.

falloff

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #620 posted 06/21/19 3:13am

udo

lottusflower said:

pic omitted

.

If that is the response to common logic, then how are you able to cope with the modern world?

Are you even able to function?

Because with those skills you could not even obtain the CD that this thread is about, let alone find the way to optimally enjoy the audio.

.

Is the Originals packaging/artwork better than P&M '83?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #621 posted 06/21/19 3:24am

BartVanHemelen

TheEnglishGent said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

ON THE BLOODY CD.

.

Sheesh.

Not on any CD though, isn't it just the Japanese release and the one on sale in Target in the USA?

.

Yes. As stated in my post at the top of this thread.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #622 posted 06/21/19 3:51am

JorisE73

udo said:

amokeru said:

It is already Friday night here in Japan!

.

Great time for a beer!

The 'normal' originals CD should arrive here (Netherlands) today.

I'll try to locate a preview to decide whether I need the Japansese/Target release.


I pre-orderd the Japanese version and got a shipping confirmation last sunday.
Usually it takes about a week to get here in the NEtherlands, so hopefully I'll have it around early next week.

Reply #623 posted 06/21/19 4:32am

MIRvmn

I really wanna hear the Cinematic mix now smile
We are living in Orwell's 1984
Reply #624 posted 06/21/19 5:10am

Ramzoo

JorisE73 said:

udo said:

.

Great time for a beer!

The 'normal' originals CD should arrive here (Netherlands) today.

I'll try to locate a preview to decide whether I need the Japansese/Target release.


I pre-orderd the Japanese version and got a shipping confirmation last sunday.
Usually it takes about a week to get here in the NEtherlands, so hopefully I'll have it around early next week.

Me too, all my Prince's CD are coming from Japan. Sometmes we get some bonus tracks or EP's.

I highly recommend CDjapan, as they're very customer oriented.

https://youtu.be/-ku7-Wzc0dc

Reply #625 posted 06/21/19 5:14am

djThunderfunk

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:



I totally expect the CD to sound exactly the same as the digital, but I have hopes that the vinyl will sound better.

Too bad we won't know for a few more weeks.

The Itunes sound seems way better than Tidal. Thats why I am getting the cd (besides wanting tangible copy).


That's weird about iTunes & Tidal. Is it a bitrate thing?

I'd get the CD even if what I downloaded was HiRes (it's not, it was mp3), alway have to have a physical copy.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #626 posted 06/21/19 6:02am

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #627 posted 06/21/19 6:03am

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #628 posted 06/21/19 6:05am

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #629 posted 06/21/19 6:05am

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #630 posted 06/21/19 6:06am

BartVanHemelen

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #631 posted 06/21/19 6:12am

sulls

rdhull said:

sulls said:

Well, I ended up postponing my trip to Target until tomorrow. I did try to convince the wife that we should go, and when I told her why, she lost her shit. BUYING TWO OF THE SAME CD?! I told her about the Target exclusive song. WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST WAIT AND BUY IT AT TARGET??? She just doesn't understand... Actually, I've been trying to score the Japanese SHM mini lps from ebay as of late and that's what's really drawn her ire. Me and my Prince collection are about to be homeless. lol lol lol lol

Target had 14 on the floor but nobody could find them, even in the back. I tried to be slick by having them sell it a day early but no dice. The 24 year old associate hadn't heard of Prince music and I played some overplayed songs on my phone for him. Still nada. He also stated he appreciated Princes's fashion sense but thought he copied Michael Jackson. I asked him if anyone heard of Prince and another young associate who came by said he had just was listening to SOTT and that the new one or the SOTT was a black cover. Jesus (and I) wept.


.

[Edited 6/20/19 20:34pm]

OMG. The Estate should hear this! Their cash cows are getting older and close to death. sad

"I like to watch."
Reply #632 posted 06/21/19 6:13am

BartVanHemelen

Susannah Melvoin talks about Originals in this podcast, The Frame: https://www.scpr.org/prog.../18/19834/

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #633 posted 06/21/19 6:14am

amokeru

JorisE73 said:

udo said:

.

Great time for a beer!

The 'normal' originals CD should arrive here (Netherlands) today.

I'll try to locate a preview to decide whether I need the Japansese/Target release.


I pre-orderd the Japanese version and got a shipping confirmation last sunday.
Usually it takes about a week to get here in the NEtherlands, so hopefully I'll have it around early next week.


Starting with acappela and first verse is vocal and orchestration only, and from second verse with drums and other instrumentals but orchestration is much more prominent... It is very clear sounding and no tape hiss at all. This is very strange remix but beautiful and more dramatic...


[Edited 6/21/19 6:26am]

Reply #634 posted 06/21/19 6:15am

OnlyNDaUsa

they album is on the official YT channle.... (just 15 songs not the 2nd version on NC2U)

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #635 posted 06/21/19 6:23am

databank

BartVanHemelen said:

Susannah Melvoin talks about Originals in this podcast, The Frame: https://www.scpr.org/prog.../18/19834/

Thx Bart 4 all the links hug

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #636 posted 06/21/19 6:26am

databank

BartVanHemelen said:

Variety review: https://variety.com/2019/...203249946/

“Sex Shooter” (...) Prince’s falsetto, the buzzing synthesizers, the Roland TR-808 drum machine

Roland TR-808?!

Wasn't it the Linn?

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #637 posted 06/21/19 6:28am

banishedones666

Drfunkenberry twitter: THE PRINCE ESTATE RELEASES NEW MUSIC VIDEO FOR BELOVED "MANIC MONDAY" ONLY ON APPLE MUSIC Watch the brand new "Manic Monday" music video in full and catch up on all things Prince on Apple Music here: (It appears to be for sale for $1.99)

Here is also a preview clip (the full clip is $1.99 through )

Reply #638 posted 06/21/19 6:29am

BartVanHemelen

Yet another Peggy McCreary interview: https://www.ilikeyourolds...y-mccreary

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #639 posted 06/21/19 6:30am

udo

banishedones666 said:

Drfunkenberry twitter: THE PRINCE ESTATE RELEASES NEW MUSIC VIDEO FOR BELOVED "MANIC MONDAY" ONLY ON APPLE MUSIC

.

What is the strategy here?

Stream on tidal.

Then a video on apple.

While they have ayoutube for the Prince stuff anyway....

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #640 posted 06/21/19 6:32am

BartVanHemelen

Embedded preview clip of the video in this article: https://www.iconvsicon.co...ple-music/

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #641 posted 06/21/19 6:35am

udo

BartVanHemelen said:

Yet another Peggy McCreary interview: https://www.ilikeyourolds...y-mccreary

.

Thanks, but WTF?

The set also includes Prince’s studio draft of “Nothing Compares 2 U”, initially released by The Time and subsequently a 1990 number one hit for Sinead O’Connor.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
Reply #642 posted 06/21/19 6:46am

AvocadosMax

BartVanHemelen said:

From https://www.facebook.com/groups/1091596104195943/permalink/2382309861791221/ :


.



The "Cinematic Mix" of "Nothing Compares 2 U" (on Target & Japan CDs of #Originals) is amazing. First verse is just #Prince vocals and strings! Strings are more prominent in the mix throughout.



.


I was under the impression that it was just an alternate mix Prince had laying down in the vault.
Is it even worth buying now?
Reply #643 posted 06/21/19 6:48am

AvocadosMax

databank said:

 



BartVanHemelen said:


From https://www.facebook.com/groups/1091596104195943/permalink/2382309861791221/ :


.



The "Cinematic Mix" of "Nothing Compares 2 U" (on Target & Japan CDs of #Originals) is amazing. First verse is just #Prince vocals and strings! Strings are more prominent in the mix throughout.



.



clapping More encouragement for the Estate to mess with the tracks. Can't wait for Erotic City (House Mix) and When Doves Cry (Trap Mix feat. Niki Minaj) duh 


Oh just wait till they release the Billie Eilish’s alternative/trap remix of the entire Purple Rain album
Lol
Reply #644 posted 06/21/19 6:57am

mano

I've wanted to hear official versions of these for years! Now that we actually have them I feel ashamed to listen to them. Lol

Prince's version of Jungle Love is almost indistinguishable from Morris' version!! Gosh all Morris had to do was follow the guide vocal and get paid.

"I know I hold you too tight, but I just can't seem to get close enough." prince
Reply #645 posted 06/21/19 6:59am

mano

TrivialPursuit said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Who even buys CD’s?


I do, but only with those few artist I want to support in that way. MJ, Prince, Madonna, Janet. I bought the Motley Crue soundtrack for The Dirt. That was the first CD since the Purple Rain Deluxe stuff when I did an "Unboxing Prince" video. So needless to say, it's a rare occasion.

Oh, I did buy Man of the Woods on CD and the wood grain orange vinyl.

Yea i buy CD's only for certain albums that I want to have a physical backup of.

"I know I hold you too tight, but I just can't seem to get close enough." prince
Reply #646 posted 06/21/19 7:17am

BartVanHemelen

From the official Prince channel on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/w...mTqS2IBkTc

.

.

[Edited 6/21/19 12:16pm]

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #647 posted 06/21/19 7:21am

databank

udo said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Yet another Peggy McCreary interview: https://www.ilikeyourolds...y-mccreary

.

Thanks, but WTF?

The set also includes Prince’s studio draft of “Nothing Compares 2 U”, initially released by The Time and subsequently a 1990 number one hit for Sinead O’Connor.

It was in the alternate timeline created by Tony and Steve when they traveled back to 1970 to get the tesseract and the Pym particles. In that timeline, strangely (it's hard to see how this influenced that), Jesse accepted Prince's offer to replace Morris as the Time's lead singer and some of the songs that Prince wrote for The Family in our timeline were, then, written for The Time, so it's Jesse on vocals, and wait until you hear Jesse singing "Hey Morris, did you pay?" on Mutiny, the first single from The Time's 4th album titled..., well, Mutiny.

Sad shit is Pandemonium never happened in that timeline, and Jerk Out is still unreleased to that day, with only the Mazarati version circulating in poor quality. Another weird shit is that, in that timeline, because there never was The Family, Prince never got to work with Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss and had Eddie M. being the lead sax player on his records from 1985 to 1988. So you got Eddie playing horns on Parade and SOTT and Lovesexy and it sounds weird as fuck when you know the Eric/Atlanta versions!!

And Paul never released any of his solo albums either, but still was successful as a session musician.

.

[Edited 6/21/19 7:25am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #648 posted 06/21/19 7:28am

mano

databank said:

udo said:

.

Thanks, but WTF?

The set also includes Prince’s studio draft of “Nothing Compares 2 U”, initially released by The Time and subsequently a 1990 number one hit for Sinead O’Connor.

It was in the alternate timeline created by Tony and Steve when they traveled back to 1970 to get the tesseract and the Pym particles. In that timeline, strangely (it's hard to see how this influenced that), Jesse accepted Prince's offer to replace Morris as the Time's lead singer and some of the songs that Prince wrote for The Family in our timeline were, then, written for The Time, so it's Jesse on vocals, and wait until you hear Jesse singing "Hey Morris, did you pay?" on Mutiny, the first single from The Time's 4th album titled..., well, Mutiny.

Sad shit is Pandemonium never happened in that timeline, and Jerk Out is still unreleased to that day, with only the Mazarati version circulating in poor quality. Another weird shit is that, in that timeline, because there never was The Family, Prince never got to work with Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss and had Eddie M. being the lead sax player on his records from 1985 to 1988. So you got Eddie playing horns on Parade and SOTT and Lovesexy and it sounds weird as fuck when you know the Eric/Atlanta versions!!

And Paul never released any of his solo albums either, but still was successful as a session musician.

.

[Edited 6/21/19 7:25am]

lol lol lol lol lol Avengers Assemble!

[Edited 6/21/19 7:29am]

"I know I hold you too tight, but I just can't seem to get close enough." prince
Reply #649 posted 06/21/19 7:39am

djThunderfunk

I was at Target at 9:15 (they open at 8) and they didn't have it out yet. Had to wait for them to bring it from the back for me. Oh well, at least I got my pick from all they had. wink

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #650 posted 06/21/19 7:40am

fabriziovenerandi

Sex Shooter video in Prince Youtube Channel (I don't know if it is the same Bart share, I can not see it).

Reply #651 posted 06/21/19 7:59am

OnlyNDaUsa

BartVanHemelen said:

From the official Prince channel on YouTube:

.

.

[Edited 6/21/19 7:18am]

[Edited 6/21/19 7:18am]

all 15 are on the official channel

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #652 posted 06/21/19 7:59am

billymeade

The Google Play Music version sounds more "alive" than the Tidal version (hi-res). I'm sure the files are the same, maybe GPM does some equalizing along the way.

.

.

Or, the conspiracist in me says they used Tidal to gauge reaction and tweaked levels before sending them out wink

Reply #653 posted 06/21/19 8:00am

OnlyNDaUsa

fabriziovenerandi said:

Sex Shooter video in Prince Youtube Channel (I don't know if it is the same Bart share, I can not see it).

I saw 2 versiosn both are just an image of the album cover... just one is a close up... weird

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
Reply #654 posted 06/21/19 8:00am

databank

fabriziovenerandi said:

Sex Shooter video in Prince Youtube Channel (I don't know if it is the same Bart share, I can not see it).

While they were at it they should have overdubbed P's vocals to the Apollonia 6 music video, so we'd see Apples sing but hear Prince. After them turniing Prince into a pathetic clown by overdubbing NC2U to a video of him rehearsing other songs and making -in that context- ridiculous dance moves, I really expected them to reach a new low. So disappointing... Maybe they could photoshop Prince in an Apollonia underwear using new Hollywood technology and make a new music video?

[Edited 6/21/19 8:01am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #655 posted 06/21/19 8:05am

TheSilentMikey

databank said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

Sex Shooter video in Prince Youtube Channel (I don't know if it is the same Bart share, I can not see it).

While they were at it they should have overdubbed P's vocals to the Apollonia 6 music video, so we'd see Apples sing but hear Prince. After them turniing Prince into a pathetic clown by overdubbing NC2U to a video of him rehearsing other songs and making -in that context- ridiculous dance moves, I really expected them to reach a new low. So disappointing... Maybe they could photoshop Prince in an Apollonia underwear using new Hollywood technology and make a new music video?

[Edited 6/21/19 8:01am]

Well it looks like the video for “Manic Monday” is exactly what you expected.

"Don't need no Reefer. Don't need Cocaine. Purple Music does the same to my brain."
Reply #656 posted 06/21/19 8:10am

mano

This album is making me wanan go listen to Shiela E's albums again.

"I know I hold you too tight, but I just can't seem to get close enough." prince
Reply #657 posted 06/21/19 8:11am

databank

TheSilentMikey said:

databank said:

While they were at it they should have overdubbed P's vocals to the Apollonia 6 music video, so we'd see Apples sing but hear Prince. After them turniing Prince into a pathetic clown by overdubbing NC2U to a video of him rehearsing other songs and making -in that context- ridiculous dance moves, I really expected them to reach a new low. So disappointing... Maybe they could photoshop Prince in an Apollonia underwear using new Hollywood technology and make a new music video?

[Edited 6/21/19 8:01am]

Well it looks like the video for “Manic Monday” is exactly what you expected.

You mean the original Bangles vid?? eek eek

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #658 posted 06/21/19 8:23am

sulls

djThunderfunk said:

I was at Target at 9:15 (they open at 8) and they didn't have it out yet. Had to wait for them to bring it from the back for me. Oh well, at least I got my pick from all they had. wink

Right on! Did you pick up just one? biggrin

"I like to watch."
Reply #659 posted 06/21/19 8:25am

BlueShakooo

I like the Cinematic Remix.
As long as they don't do to his recordings what was done to Michael's, I'm fine.
"Don't get too serious, it's just a dream."
Reply #660 posted 06/21/19 8:30am

databank

BlueShakooo said:

I like the Cinematic Remix. As long as they don't do to his recordings what was done to Michael's, I'm fine.

You mean the apparently fake songs with fake vocals?

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #661 posted 06/21/19 8:36am

darkroman

BlueShakooo said:

I like the Cinematic Remix. As long as they don't do to his recordings what was done to Michael's, I'm fine.


I'm not sure I like this at all.

I suppose this is what people are calling a 'frankenstein remix'.

I find this isn't different enough to make me want to listen to it over and over.

The a capella at the start isn't a good idea because the diction and grammar isn't good enough. After all, Prince never intended his vocal to be made so bear!

I feel someone had the thought, ''let's copy Whitney''.

If Prince had intended this, I'm sure he would have sang, ''it's been'' and not, ''it's bin''. Also ''it's'' sounds really odd, like it has been mispronounced or oddly cut off by the remix engineer.


cool

Reply #662 posted 06/21/19 8:53am

billymeade

mano said:

This album is making me wanan go listen to Shiela E's albums again.

Would've been a brilliant marketing strategy to have all these associates remastered at the same time!

Reply #663 posted 06/21/19 9:09am

TheSilentMikey

databank said:

TheSilentMikey said:

Well it looks like the video for “Manic Monday” is exactly what you expected.

You mean the original Bangles vid?? eek eek

Nope, the video for the “Originals” version of “Manic Monday” that just got released on Apple Music today.

"Don't need no Reefer. Don't need Cocaine. Purple Music does the same to my brain."
Reply #664 posted 06/21/19 9:11am

jaawwnn

The strings on the "cinematic remix" are just the Clare Fischer stuff turned up to eleven? There's nothing actually added? So it's about as legit as the other version, I think I actually prefer it.





[Edited 6/21/19 9:11am]

Reply #665 posted 06/21/19 9:25am

AhPook

jaawwnn said:

The strings on the "cinematic remix" are just the Clare Fischer stuff turned up to eleven? There's nothing actually added? So it's about as legit as the other version, I think I actually prefer it.





[Edited 6/21/19 9:11am]

It's called "Cinematic Mix," not remix. The distinction should matter in terms of what's been done to the song.

Reply #666 posted 06/21/19 9:29am

databank

TheSilentMikey said:

databank said:

You mean the original Bangles vid?? eek eek

Nope, the video for the “Originals” version of “Manic Monday” that just got released on Apple Music today.

eek eek eek

Is that on YT as well?

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #667 posted 06/21/19 9:34am

feeluupp

databank said:

TheSilentMikey said:

Nope, the video for the “Originals” version of “Manic Monday” that just got released on Apple Music today.

eek eek eek

Is that on YT as well?

https://music.apple.com/u...1469316613

Made a thread about it wink

Reply #668 posted 06/21/19 9:58am

databank

feeluupp said:

databank said:

eek eek eek

Is that on YT as well?

https://music.apple.com/u...1469316613

Made a thread about it wink

The preview button doesn't work for me, but it seems to be from the same (or another) rehearsal footage.

If it's as gross as NC2U was, poorly synched since from another song and turning Prince into a ridiculous dancing clown, that's a indeed a new low.

In a way that infuriates me even more than the probable tinkering of the recordings, that's basically pissing on P's urn. But I'll wait until it's on Yt and I can see it to decide how I feel about it.

[Edited 6/21/19 10:00am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #669 posted 06/21/19 10:03am

databank

The worst part is, I understand the need for a promo video for marketing video. But it could have been a fun lyrics video, an animated, anything. But now, that would have required a budget, so why bother when you can just poorly edit a cheap VHS rehearsal video...

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #670 posted 06/21/19 10:32am

stillwaiting

mano said:

I've wanted to hear official versions of these for years! Now that we actually have them I feel ashamed to listen to them. Lol

Prince's version of Jungle Love is almost indistinguishable from Morris' version!! Gosh all Morris had to do was follow the guide vocal and get paid.

Don't forget that if Jesse Johnson did not come up with the demo, the song never would have existed.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #671 posted 06/21/19 10:34am

stillwaiting

djThunderfunk said:

I was at Target at 9:15 (they open at 8) and they didn't have it out yet. Had to wait for them to bring it from the back for me. Oh well, at least I got my pick from all they had. wink

God, that is so much like me. When I go to Target tonight, I will look through each one, and find the one that is "mine."

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #672 posted 06/21/19 10:35am

sulls

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:

I was at Target at 9:15 (they open at 8) and they didn't have it out yet. Had to wait for them to bring it from the back for me. Oh well, at least I got my pick from all they had. wink

God, that is so much like me. When I go to Target tonight, I will look through each one, and find the one that is "mine."

lol

"I like to watch."
Reply #673 posted 06/21/19 11:00am

stillwaiting

databank said:

udo said:

.

Thanks, but WTF?

The set also includes Prince’s studio draft of “Nothing Compares 2 U”, initially released by The Time and subsequently a 1990 number one hit for Sinead O’Connor.

It was in the alternate timeline created by Tony and Steve when they traveled back to 1970 to get the tesseract and the Pym particles. In that timeline, strangely (it's hard to see how this influenced that), Jesse accepted Prince's offer to replace Morris as the Time's lead singer and some of the songs that Prince wrote for The Family in our timeline were, then, written for The Time, so it's Jesse on vocals, and wait until you hear Jesse singing "Hey Morris, did you pay?" on Mutiny, the first single from The Time's 4th album titled..., well, Mutiny.

Sad shit is Pandemonium never happened in that timeline, and Jerk Out is still unreleased to that day, with only the Mazarati version circulating in poor quality. Another weird shit is that, in that timeline, because there never was The Family, Prince never got to work with Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss and had Eddie M. being the lead sax player on his records from 1985 to 1988. So you got Eddie playing horns on Parade and SOTT and Lovesexy and it sounds weird as fuck when you know the Eric/Atlanta versions!!

And Paul never released any of his solo albums either, but still was successful as a session musician.

.

[Edited 6/21/19 7:25am]

Is this kind of how I stopped Jam & Lewis from becoming 2 friends stuck in the snow? And then insteaad of releasing an album every single year, Prince makes Jam & Lewis Co-Presidents of Paisley Park, and Prince makes SOTT with Kiss thrown in as the follow up to Purple Rain, so instead of flooding the market, we get huge blockbuster albums from Prince, and the new Paisley Park artist, Janet Jackson? And The Time never break up and we get new albums from them every 3 or so years, and Prince looks like a genius instead of an on again off again one? Oh well, it is nice to dream.

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #674 posted 06/21/19 11:01am

jn2

billymeade said:

mano said:

This album is making me wanan go listen to Shiela E's albums again.

Would've been a brilliant marketing strategy to have all these associates remastered at the same time!

nod

Reply #675 posted 06/21/19 11:08am

databank

stillwaiting said:

databank said:

It was in the alternate timeline created by Tony and Steve when they traveled back to 1970 to get the tesseract and the Pym particles. In that timeline, strangely (it's hard to see how this influenced that), Jesse accepted Prince's offer to replace Morris as the Time's lead singer and some of the songs that Prince wrote for The Family in our timeline were, then, written for The Time, so it's Jesse on vocals, and wait until you hear Jesse singing "Hey Morris, did you pay?" on Mutiny, the first single from The Time's 4th album titled..., well, Mutiny.

Sad shit is Pandemonium never happened in that timeline, and Jerk Out is still unreleased to that day, with only the Mazarati version circulating in poor quality. Another weird shit is that, in that timeline, because there never was The Family, Prince never got to work with Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss and had Eddie M. being the lead sax player on his records from 1985 to 1988. So you got Eddie playing horns on Parade and SOTT and Lovesexy and it sounds weird as fuck when you know the Eric/Atlanta versions!!

And Paul never released any of his solo albums either, but still was successful as a session musician.

.

[Edited 6/21/19 7:25am]

Is this kind of how I stopped Jam & Lewis from becoming 2 friends stuck in the snow? And then insteaad of releasing an album every single year, Prince makes Jam & Lewis Co-Presidents of Paisley Park, and Prince makes SOTT with Kiss thrown in as the follow up to Purple Rain, so instead of flooding the market, we get huge blockbuster albums from Prince, and the new Paisley Park artist, Janet Jackson? And The Time never break up and we get new albums from them every 3 or so years, and Prince looks like a genius instead of an on again off again one? Oh well, it is nice to dream.

lol lol lol lol

Not my definition of an artistic genius. At all. But have it your way, we're cool, it's only fantasy thanks to the Avengers wink

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #676 posted 06/21/19 11:11am

databank

billymeade said:

mano said:

This album is making me wanan go listen to Shiela E's albums again.

Would've been a brilliant marketing strategy to have all these associates remastered at the same time!

Remastered IDK but available at least. Like I wrote in Associated artists:

"(..) it's a little odd that WB, who -as far as we know- still own the masters to A6 and V6, and probably also The Family, Mazarati and Taja Sevelle (maybe even Jill Jones), didn't take the opportunity to finally upload those albums on all streaming platforms in hope that Originals would sort of promote them inderectly. Either those records are entangled in legal issues that we're not aware of (but I don't see why that would be the case since WB had no problems keeping the Time and Sheila catalogues available for all those years), or they're a very low priority for WB sad

Another missed opportunity I guess...

"

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #677 posted 06/21/19 11:15am

TheEnglishGent

databank said:

feeluupp said:

https://music.apple.com/u...1469316613

Made a thread about it wink

The preview button doesn't work for me, but it seems to be from the same (or another) rehearsal footage.

If it's as gross as NC2U was, poorly synched since from another song and turning Prince into a ridiculous dancing clown, that's a indeed a new low.

In a way that infuriates me even more than the probable tinkering of the recordings, that's basically pissing on P's urn. But I'll wait until it's on Yt and I can see it to decide how I feel about it.

[Edited 6/21/19 10:00am]

It's just like the NC2U vid, random rehearsal footage of Prince dancing and singing to something else. Would be interesting if they released this footage with original audio. But putting it to a completely unrelated song is just weird.

RIP sad
Reply #678 posted 06/21/19 11:18am

databank

TheEnglishGent said:

databank said:

The preview button doesn't work for me, but it seems to be from the same (or another) rehearsal footage.

If it's as gross as NC2U was, poorly synched since from another song and turning Prince into a ridiculous dancing clown, that's a indeed a new low.

In a way that infuriates me even more than the probable tinkering of the recordings, that's basically pissing on P's urn. But I'll wait until it's on Yt and I can see it to decide how I feel about it.

[Edited 6/21/19 10:00am]

It's just like the NC2U vid, random rehearsal footage of Prince dancing and singing to something else. Would be interesting if they released this footage with original audio. But putting it to a completely unrelated song is just weird.

Not just weird. Gross.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #679 posted 06/21/19 11:23am

stillwaiting

databank said:

billymeade said:

Would've been a brilliant marketing strategy to have all these associates remastered at the same time!

Remastered IDK but available at least. Like I wrote in Associated artists:

"(..) it's a little odd that WB, who -as far as we know- still own the masters to A6 and V6, and probably also The Family, Mazarati and Taja Sevelle (maybe even Jill Jones), didn't take the opportunity to finally upload those albums on all streaming platforms in hope that Originals would sort of promote them inderectly. Either those records are entangled in legal issues that we're not aware of (but I don't see why that would be the case since WB had no problems keeping the Time and Sheila catalogues available for all those years), or they're a very low priority for WB sad

Another missed opportunity I guess...

"

The Time's first 4 albums are remastered, and available through CD Japan, but they could be all out of print since I am too lazy to check. Those 4 should be in a box set taking them down to 3 discs with whatever bonus tracks could be thrown in. First 3 Sheila E Albums could be 2 discs, Vanity/Apollonia/Family/Mazarati could be a release, but the demand is just not there, but it would be nice. And just to note, the first 2 Morris Day solo releases are also remastered and available at CD Japan. I have them all, and the sound is OK, but nothing too special. I need to compare them to the originals again, as my memory is fading...

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #680 posted 06/21/19 11:35am

olb99

databank said:

mediumdry said:

.

Anything that gets Prince's vocals on a mix closer to what was on the Family album is a good thing, as much as it is messing with things. To me, the version they have released was messing with the track. I hope they'll improve on that.

Well IDK, should they attempt to recreate the unreleased Family version (as they did on #1) or the final version (as they apparently did on #2)? Makes no difference to me, really.

However this brings me to wonder. If, as assumed so far, they only had a cassette mixdown of P's version then how could they possibly have the first verse with only Prince's vocals and the orchestra on the Cinematic Mix? I don't think there's any technology that allows them to isolate the vocals from everything else yet get a clean result, which could mean that either they do have a multitrack and used it there, or that the version on Originals is, in fact, not exactly the same as the one released last year (cassette last year, multitrack here), or that it was never a cassette in the first place.

Kares and Olb99, when you hear the Cinematic version I'd really like to have your take on this.

[Edited 6/20/19 23:20pm]

.

IANASE (I am not a sound engineer) but to me the beginning of the Cinematic Mix sounds like they used the vocal track from a 35-year old multitrack recording, not like the result of isolating the vocals from a stereo recording. I could be wrong, though, as I haven't been closely following technologies that isolate/separate instruments/vocals these last few years. They probably got better. But that good? I would be very surprised.

.

So, yeah, it looks like they do have a multitrack recording of that song with Prince's vocals on it. Weird...

Reply #681 posted 06/21/19 11:36am

Doozer

NC2U Cinematic Mix - strange name, but I do like it, maybe better than the drums/guitar version we've had for a couple years, which sounds a bit like an early version of Diamonds & Pearls to me. I'm not complaining about having it as a bonus track. Would sure be nice to have fuller descriptions of where these were sourced, as mentioned ad nauseum here. But, this is what we're getting, and I think the song selections were decent.

Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
Reply #682 posted 06/21/19 11:39am

databank

stillwaiting said:

databank said:

Remastered IDK but available at least. Like I wrote in Associated artists:

"(..) it's a little odd that WB, who -as far as we know- still own the masters to A6 and V6, and probably also The Family, Mazarati and Taja Sevelle (maybe even Jill Jones), didn't take the opportunity to finally upload those albums on all streaming platforms in hope that Originals would sort of promote them inderectly. Either those records are entangled in legal issues that we're not aware of (but I don't see why that would be the case since WB had no problems keeping the Time and Sheila catalogues available for all those years), or they're a very low priority for WB sad

Another missed opportunity I guess...

"

The Time's first 4 albums are remastered, and available through CD Japan, but they could be all out of print since I am too lazy to check. Those 4 should be in a box set taking them down to 3 discs with whatever bonus tracks could be thrown in. First 3 Sheila E Albums could be 2 discs, Vanity/Apollonia/Family/Mazarati could be a release, but the demand is just not there, but it would be nice. And just to note, the first 2 Morris Day solo releases are also remastered and available at CD Japan. I have them all, and the sound is OK, but nothing too special. I need to compare them to the originals again, as my memory is fading...

Well the demand has to be there more than for Martika, Wendy & Lisa, André Cymone, Apollonia solo album and hundreds of obscure, non-Prince related albums that got a rerelease and/or remaster those last few years. It has to be there more than those obscure J.R. Funk And The Love Machine, Planet Patrol albums and a couple others that I bought on CD with bonus tracks in the late 90's even though no one remembered the MFs.

It's got nothing to do with the demand. The demand is there alright. It has to do with a major label that's been in existence for 61 years and has absorbed many other labels on the way having to manage a catalogue of dozens of thousands of titles and being unable to manage it all.

I illegally downloaded dozens of 70's and 80's funk, jazz and new wave albums from major labels on LP rips that haven't ever been rereleased on CD, let alone digital. The catalogues are just too big. It takes work and money to upload all that shit on iTunes.

[Edited 6/21/19 11:41am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #683 posted 06/21/19 11:44am

djThunderfunk

sulls said:

djThunderfunk said:

I was at Target at 9:15 (they open at 8) and they didn't have it out yet. Had to wait for them to bring it from the back for me. Oh well, at least I got my pick from all they had. wink

Right on! Did you pick up just one? biggrin


Yeah I don't keep sealed copies. It's bad enough I'll probably be double dipping with the vinyl. 2 copies is enough. wink

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #684 posted 06/21/19 11:48am

jaawwnn

AhPook said:

jaawwnn said:

The strings on the "cinematic remix" are just the Clare Fischer stuff turned up to eleven? There's nothing actually added? So it's about as legit as the other version, I think I actually prefer it.





[Edited 6/21/19 9:11am]

It's called "Cinematic Mix," not remix. The distinction should matter in terms of what's been done to the song.

True it should but not everyone in record companies is as pedantic about these things as a fan would be so I wanted to see if my ears were playing tricks with me.

Reply #685 posted 06/21/19 11:48am

djThunderfunk

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:

I was at Target at 9:15 (they open at 8) and they didn't have it out yet. Had to wait for them to bring it from the back for me. Oh well, at least I got my pick from all they had. wink

God, that is so much like me. When I go to Target tonight, I will look through each one, and find the one that is "mine."


When I saw they weren't out yet, I asked the kid working there, he said "I'll go get you one". I said "Could you make sure none of the corners are bent up, I'm a collector". He came back with the whole box and said "Take your pick. I get it. We get a lot of collectors here." LOL.


"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
Reply #686 posted 06/21/19 11:52am

BlueShakooo

databank said:

 



BlueShakooo said:


I like the Cinematic Remix. As long as they don't do to his recordings what was done to Michael's, I'm fine.

You mean the apparently fake songs with fake vocals?


I actually meant the terrible remixes (like Slave To The Rhythm).
And even worse: Wanna Be Startin' (feat. Akon).
This so called Cinematic Remix lets us hear Prince's naked voice recording for a few measures. It touches me.
"Don't get too serious, it's just a dream."
Reply #687 posted 06/21/19 11:55am

databank

BlueShakooo said:

databank said:

You mean the apparently fake songs with fake vocals?

I actually meant the terrible remixes (like Slave To The Rhythm). And even worse: Wanna Be Startin' (feat. Akon). This so called Cinematic Remix lets us hear Prince's naked voice recording for a few measures. It touches me.

OK, IDK, to me it's all the same. Now if it's posthumous and they're gonna come clear with it because they felt they needed that to sell the shit, then I don't need to approve but I can live with it. But if they say it's "as we found it" and it's not, then it's a no go sad

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
Reply #688 posted 06/21/19 12:12pm

djdaffy1227

I LOVE the Cinematic mix! Hauntingly beautiful to my ears.

Making love and music are the only things worth fighting for.
Reply #689 posted 06/21/19 12:27pm

stillwaiting

BlueShakooo said:

databank said:

You mean the apparently fake songs with fake vocals?

I actually meant the terrible remixes (like Slave To The Rhythm). And even worse: Wanna Be Startin' (feat. Akon). This so called Cinematic Remix lets us hear Prince's naked voice recording for a few measures. It touches me.

As bad as things are in Prince world, and trust me, they are bad...it is worse as an MJ fan. The idiots did not even release all the best outtakes. Like the Dangerous one...uh...what is it, "If You Don't Love Me?" Or the incredible acoustic version of "Give In To Me." As a complete fanatic of MJ, it hurts that so much material is rotting away. No Victory tour DVD/Blu Ray...Bad in Japan and Australia should have been out by now.....and as far as fake vocals? Who knows? MJ used vocal alteration on "Shout" the B-Side to "Cry," a lesser known single from Invincible.

I usually avoid MJ discussions here, but so far, things are worse in Prince world...then again, neither has been what it should be or could be. sad But I'm happy we at least have originals smile

"If U ever lose some1 dear 2 U, Never say the words they're gone....They'll come back."
Reply #690 posted 06/21/19 12:46pm

E319

djThunderfunk said:

 



stillwaiting said:


 



djThunderfunk said:


I was at Target at 9:15 (they open at 8) and they didn't have it out yet. Had to wait for them to bring it from the back for me. Oh well, at least I got my pick from all they had. wink



 


God, that is so much like me. When I go to Target tonight, I will look through each one, and find the one that is "mine."




When I saw they weren't out yet, I asked the kid working there, he said "I'll go get you one". I said "Could you make sure none of the corners are bent up, I'm a collector". He came back with the whole box and said "Take your pick. I get it. We get a lot of collectors here." LOL.





It hasn’t even arrived to any of the Target’s in my area (Miami). They told me they have a truck coming in tomorrow and it should be in stock then. Smh.
Reply #691 posted 06/21/19 12:55pm

AhPook