if he was really that in denial and that addicted, there wasn't much hope for him. funny how he was so aware of this danger of this business and it still takes him out.

jtfolden said:

purplerabbithole said:

Does Jill bring up that P knew that the pills in his Bayer bottle were the ones he overdosed on in MOlene and that he himself refused to let them be tested. I don't think anyone tricked Prince. The doctor confirmed that there was a Bayer bottle that P refused to admit he even took from or have tested. He took those pills again on the 21st. Remember the watsons were not in a traditional bottle and the fentanly laced ones were in the Bayer bottle while the lidocaine were in the Aleve bottle. Also, he had percocet he could have taken that the doctor gave him. He didn't use them. If Prince thought at one point that the mystery pills were the relatively mild hydrocodone and then overdosed on them requiring two narcan shots to shave him, wouldn't he question at that point if the pills were safe and why didn't he just grab the legit percocet which had never caused an overdose in Molene?

In Moline Prince admitted there was "something else" in the Bayer bottle when Kirk said all he had taked was percocet. They DID take a pill to identify it but they did so by appearance only. They did not test the ingredients in it.

Also, ALL the counterfeit pills Prince had were actually lidocaine. *Some* of them were laced with Fentenyl. There is no real evidence at all that Prince knew they were anything at all but what he expected.

If you read all the interviews you also know that Prince was in denial that the meds were the issue. In Moline he insisted he was just "dreaming" and would have come out of it ok and he stated the Narcan is what messed him up...(also, see Prince's comments about "knowing his own body" and how it reacts to the meds in defense). To Dr S it wasn't the pills making him vomit, it was bad soup, etc...

So, if it seems like people were dragging their feet to get him help, a lot of it is likely because he was dragging his to admit he had a problem. It's not like anyone could force him to do anything and it probably took moving mountains to even get him to take a blood test.

80tomato said:

PennyPurple said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Strawberrylova123 said: Thanks for sharing, Jill brought some great points. One thing to mention Prince did not die from taking his meds he died because someone had a pill made to look just like his usual medication so he would take it without questioning...but that was laced with fentanyl.

Prince didn't have opioids to take, so it wasn't his 'medicine'. They were not obtained legally. He didn't just have 1 pill that was laced with fentanyl, he had multiple pills with fentanyl. It's not like somebody just slipped him a fentanyl laced pill. He or somebody obtained them illegally and got a bad batch, happens all the time when you buy them from the black market.

Chances are very good that most of Prince associates knew of the drug use. Jill even thought something was off when they seen him in Oakland. Evidently it was an open secret.

That interview was interesting. And Jill did say a while back that when she saw him during Vanity's funeral she mentioned to others "he was obviously under the influence of something". Remember? So it was an open secret, but nobody questioned him directly because he made sure nobody could.

Maybe there were points in which Prince tried to help himself but if I understand correctly P told Kirk about the additional bottle but would not tell the doctor. Kirk told the doctor in the hallway and that is when it was looked at by the chemist. Prince may not have known how dangerous his pills were until that night. But he certainly knew on the 21st before taking them again.

jtfolden said:

purplerabbithole said:

Does Jill bring up that P knew that the pills in his Bayer bottle were the ones he overdosed on in MOlene and that he himself refused to let them be tested. I don't think anyone tricked Prince. The doctor confirmed that there was a Bayer bottle that P refused to admit he even took from or have tested. He took those pills again on the 21st. Remember the watsons were not in a traditional bottle and the fentanly laced ones were in the Bayer bottle while the lidocaine were in the Aleve bottle. Also, he had percocet he could have taken that the doctor gave him. He didn't use them. If Prince thought at one point that the mystery pills were the relatively mild hydrocodone and then overdosed on them requiring two narcan shots to shave him, wouldn't he question at that point if the pills were safe and why didn't he just grab the legit percocet which had never caused an overdose in Molene?

In Moline Prince admitted there was "something else" in the Bayer bottle when Kirk said all he had taked was percocet. They DID take a pill to identify it but they did so by appearance only. They did not test the ingredients in it.

Also, ALL the counterfeit pills Prince had were actually lidocaine. *Some* of them were laced with Fentenyl. There is no real evidence at all that Prince knew they were anything at all but what he expected.

If you read all the interviews you also know that Prince was in denial that the meds were the issue. In Moline he insisted he was just "dreaming" and would have come out of it ok and he stated the Narcan is what messed him up...(also, see Prince's comments about "knowing his own body" and how it reacts to the meds in defense). To Dr S it wasn't the pills making him vomit, it was bad soup, etc...

So, if it seems like people were dragging their feet to get him help, a lot of it is likely because he was dragging his to admit he had a problem. It's not like anyone could force him to do anything and it probably took moving mountains to even get him to take a blood test.

I am not saying it was Jill's fault if she noticed odd behavior, suspected drugs but didn't say anything to Prince. Although one could argue, the ladies had nothing to lose if they mentioned it to him. He wasn't their employer anymore. the truth is that anyone was going to struggle talking to him about this stuff.. so the people outside the loop might want to chill a bit and admit that they didn't rush out and confront him either when they were in his presense. Its easy to say "I didn't enable him to the point he died" if they were't given the opportunity to be around him much in the very end. Unless they left because of the drugs (like Sheila claims she did) then I am not sure they can judge a situation they weren't there for.

PeteSilas said:

Jill did mention that at vanity's memorial that she told appolonia and brenda bennet (?) that "he's on something" Prince seemed to sense they were gossipping and came up to ask "what are you talking about?" however, i don't think it's jills fault, i don't believe she was around him very much for the last 20 years, kinda hard for her to say something out of the blue to someone you aren't even around anymore.

purplerabbithole said:

Well, Jill didn't say anything to him either. Neither did many of the others who are casting blame against anyone who hung out or knew Prince in the last five years of his life. Everyone might suspected something was up, but its not like it is an easy subject to broach especially if he is not popping pills in front of you, is compartmentalizing his life, is denying, is dodging, and is excising those who say anything to him from his world. The sad part is that he had done too good of a job compartmentalizing that folks couldn't get a clear cut concensus on the man. No doubt, there were some who probably didn't give two shits. There were some who probably directly enabled. But I reserve judgment for most of these people. Even Mayte implied that drug taking was happening off and on when they were together, but the extent was unclear, he was mostly functional, the line between PRince eccentricity and drug induced behavior was tough to find, and she was led to believe that he would stop. Maybe, if Prince had gotten help on his trust issues and emotional issues, he could have asked for real help and gotten it. People could have done better and I wish they would admit their regret ---but even when Prince was a prick, I don't think anyone harbored true ill will against him. If people aren't attempting to off Donald Trump right now, why would we think a brilliant musician would be hated so much ---and he is not exactly as rich as many musicians out there and certainly not the only difficult rock star who has ever lived..

Also keep in mind, probably many performers are/were on pain pills for chronic pain. Chronic pain is a total bitch and nobody should have to live their lives with no relief from it and nobody should be forced to give up the one thing (in Prince's case music) that validates and defines him. Prince without music would be suicide. He knew that and everyone knew that. For these reasons, I don't think many of them would have the courage or the heart to say much if he was on a regiment for pain with doctors and legal pills unless he repeatedly overdosed. If they knew he was on counterfit pills, however, it might have been different story..

[Edited 4/30/18 20:49pm]

jtfolden said:

In Moline Prince admitted there was "something else" in the Bayer bottle when Kirk said all he had taked was percocet. They DID take a pill to identify it but they did so by appearance only. They did not test the ingredients in it.

Also, ALL the counterfeit pills Prince had were actually lidocaine. *Some* of them were laced with Fentenyl. There is no real evidence at all that Prince knew they were anything at all but what he expected.

If you read all the interviews you also know that Prince was in denial that the meds were the issue. In Moline he insisted he was just "dreaming" and would have come out of it ok and he stated the Narcan is what messed him up...(also, see Prince's comments about "knowing his own body" and how it reacts to the meds in defense). To Dr S it wasn't the pills making him vomit, it was bad soup, etc...

So, if it seems like people were dragging their feet to get him help, a lot of it is likely because he was dragging his to admit he had a problem. It's not like anyone could force him to do anything and it probably took moving mountains to even get him to take a blood test.

Also he was complaining of tingling and numbness. Lidocaine can cause numbness and the dosage was all off anyway, since it was used to cut the Fentanyl.

The source of the pills was not found. Apparently no one else died from that batch - that they could find. That makes me think he got the pills overseas from a person. If they were on the web, more people probably would have died that they could track. The counterfeits were mixed with the legits, so maybe he topped off his supply recently, before Moline. Drug users have a terrible fear of running out, same as alcoholics.

poppys said:

jtfolden said:

In Moline Prince admitted there was "something else" in the Bayer bottle when Kirk said all he had taked was percocet. They DID take a pill to identify it but they did so by appearance only. They did not test the ingredients in it.

Also, ALL the counterfeit pills Prince had were actually lidocaine. *Some* of them were laced with Fentenyl. There is no real evidence at all that Prince knew they were anything at all but what he expected.

If you read all the interviews you also know that Prince was in denial that the meds were the issue. In Moline he insisted he was just "dreaming" and would have come out of it ok and he stated the Narcan is what messed him up...(also, see Prince's comments about "knowing his own body" and how it reacts to the meds in defense). To Dr S it wasn't the pills making him vomit, it was bad soup, etc...

So, if it seems like people were dragging their feet to get him help, a lot of it is likely because he was dragging his to admit he had a problem. It's not like anyone could force him to do anything and it probably took moving mountains to even get him to take a blood test.

Also he was complaining of tingling and numbness. Lidocaine can cause numbness and the dosage was all off anyway, since it was used to cut the Fentanyl.

The source of the pills was not found. Apparently no one else died from that batch - that they could find. That makes me think he got the pills overseas from a person. If they were on the web, more people probably would have died that they could track. The counterfeits were mixed with the legits, so maybe he topped off his supply recently, before Moline. Drug users have a terrible fear of running out, same as alcoholics.

yes, that's why pills were all over PP...textbook behavior.

Lovejunky said:

Actually NO thats not Shady..

The Owner if an LLC can also be a shareholder.

It would only be shady if Prince didnt know about it,

but in the earliest court documents released

there Prince signed Phaedra into this position

on or around Feb 2014

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Why do you think the phone call with Debra Johnson, P's prior business manager abruptly ended and we cant listen to Part 2 as it was withheld by Carver County?

She said P fired Universal and Phaedra OWNED the new entitites that received the benefit of Ps royalties from his publishing. Phaedra was both an owner, and a member/shareholder of these entities. That is a no, no.

This is shady as f*ck.

This explains why we havent heard Part 2 of Debra's interview.

After listening to Debra's statement, I was like OMG! But after giving it some thought, I wonder if Prince was in the process of setting up his own publishing company, not just for his music, but to become like Universal publishing and publish other artists' material as well?

It would be interesting to know what was going on in general with P from October 2015 - April 2016. Enemas purchased in Oct ' 15 (per receipt from grocery store) and then BOOM Moline in April ' 16 followed by his death ... What the heck was going on for about 7 months???

bondno9 said:

It would be interesting to know what was going on in general with P from October 2015 - April 2016. Enemas purchased in Oct ' 15 (per receipt from grocery store) and then BOOM Moline in April ' 16 followed by his death ... What the heck was going on for about 7 months???

Great observation. People seem focused on the time period starting in Moline to the end...but this had been a LOOONG, slow glidepath to oblivion with pleanty of clues, markers, signs, warnings....denial is the strongest human emotion....and I'm not just talking about Prince here.

He was obsessed with whatever the doctors gave him to bring him back in Moline. Wasn't it evident that it was Narcan? as a drug user isn't Narcan something that drug users generally know about?

Another thing - did he take the pill on the plane hoping to simply fall asleep? because at the hopsital he talked about dreaming and waking up, so was this the reason for him taking the pill? just to fall asleep?

It would be interesting to know if the investigation involved tracking people who didn't work for Prince coming to PP over the six months or so before April 21. People who could have brought the pills to PP and the staff would not have known about it.

MMJas said:

That interview was interesting. And Jill did say a while back that when she saw him during Vanity's funeral she mentioned to others "he was obviously under the influence of something". Remember? So it was an open secret, but nobody questioned him directly because he made sure nobody could.

The interview was only interesting for the first 5 minutes then it went off the rails, and they discussed everything but Prince even though they had a former police officer/investigator as a guest that could have given more insight into the investigation.


Jill said she thinks someone should be charged with "depraved heart." Good Luck with that one.

80tomato said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Thanks for listening!

what about ,as I see it ,of Princes INACTION ..If I had an almost fatal overdose due to some tablets I took ,I bloody well would want to know what was in them even if they were stamped as Watson and if I knew I had gotten them illegally , or if there was a chance someone tampered with them.Where was his paranoia then ...I can only surmise that he knew what those tablets were and he took them again and he knew the consequences ...not a popular opinion but after goung back and forth in my mind , that is my conclusion

The idea of Prince taking his own life is not out of the question based on the evidence. However, his denial of the truth of the situation is also not out of the question based on the evidence. According to Judith's statement, Prince was blaming the plane OD on the fact that he mixed 2 types of pills. He never questioned that the pills may not contain what he thought they did.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

MMJas said:

That interview was interesting. And Jill did say a while back that when she saw him during Vanity's funeral she mentioned to others "he was obviously under the influence of something". Remember? So it was an open secret, but nobody questioned him directly because he made sure nobody could.

The interview was only interesting for the first 5 minutes then it went off the rails, and they discussed everything but Prince even though they had a former police officer/investigator as a guest that could have given more insight into the investigation.


Jill said she thinks someone should be charged with "depraved heart." Good Luck with that one.

It did.

Just listened to the Theo phone interview. Both his and Debra's are very telling. He got right into the "Phaedra Warner conspiracy" towards the end.

[Edited 5/1/18 10:42am]

camilleisfunky said:

it was an ok interview, i'm glad Jill's feeling better.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

MMJas said:

That interview was interesting. And Jill did say a while back that when she saw him during Vanity's funeral she mentioned to others "he was obviously under the influence of something". Remember? So it was an open secret, but nobody questioned him directly because he made sure nobody could.

The interview was only interesting for the first 5 minutes then it went off the rails, and they discussed everything but Prince even though they had a former police officer/investigator as a guest that could have given more insight into the investigation.


Jill said she thinks someone should be charged with "depraved heart." Good Luck with that one.

Chazz is going to launch his own private investigation:

.

http://www.fox9.com/news/...tars-death

purplerabbithole said:

Does Jill bring up that P knew that the pills in his Bayer bottle were the ones he overdosed on in MOlene and that he himself refused to let them be tested. I don't think anyone tricked Prince. The doctor confirmed that there was a Bayer bottle that P refused to admit he even took from or have tested. He took those pills again on the 21st. Remember the watsons were not in a traditional bottle and the fentanly laced ones were in the Bayer bottle while the lidocaine were in the Aleve bottle. Also, he had percocet he could have taken that the doctor gave him. He didn't use them. If Prince thought at one point that the mystery pills were the relatively mild hydrocodone and then overdosed on them requiring two narcan shots to shave him, wouldn't he question at that point if the pills were safe and why didn't he just grab the legit percocet which had never caused an overdose in Molene?

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Strawberrylova123 said: Thanks for sharing, Jill brought some great points. One thing to mention Prince did not die from taking his meds he died because someone had a pill made to look just like his usual medication so he would take it without questioning...but that was laced with fentanyl.

[Edited 4/30/18 20:22pm]

[Edited 4/30/18 20:30pm]

This is the part that just does not add up for me. I guess denial is a strong form of self deception. Although there were signs that something was wrong with his health more than 1.5 years before he died, Prince did not start to get really sick from the pills until about 2 weeks before his death. The fact that the pills were in Aleve and Bayer bottles tells me that he was full aware that they were illegally obtained (not necessarily counterfeit) and that he was trying to hide his drug use from others - who would think twice if you saw someone taking an Aleve.

Kirk also knew that they were counterfeit pills and were the cause of Prince's recent illness because Kirk took it upon himself to doctor shop for Prince to get him some legitimate pills from Dr. S and the dentist. However, he may not have shared his concern with Prince, who continued to take the counterfeit pills. In my opinion, this implies that Kirk was the source of the counterfeit pills.

jtfolden said:

purplerabbithole said:

Does Jill bring up that P knew that the pills in his Bayer bottle were the ones he overdosed on in MOlene and that he himself refused to let them be tested. I don't think anyone tricked Prince. The doctor confirmed that there was a Bayer bottle that P refused to admit he even took from or have tested. He took those pills again on the 21st. Remember the watsons were not in a traditional bottle and the fentanly laced ones were in the Bayer bottle while the lidocaine were in the Aleve bottle. Also, he had percocet he could have taken that the doctor gave him. He didn't use them. If Prince thought at one point that the mystery pills were the relatively mild hydrocodone and then overdosed on them requiring two narcan shots to shave him, wouldn't he question at that point if the pills were safe and why didn't he just grab the legit percocet which had never caused an overdose in Molene?

In Moline Prince admitted there was "something else" in the Bayer bottle when Kirk said all he had taked was percocet. They DID take a pill to identify it but they did so by appearance only. They did not test the ingredients in it.

Also, ALL the counterfeit pills Prince had were actually lidocaine. *Some* of them were laced with Fentenyl. There is no real evidence at all that Prince knew they were anything at all but what he expected.

If you read all the interviews you also know that Prince was in denial that the meds were the issue. In Moline he insisted he was just "dreaming" and would have come out of it ok and he stated the Narcan is what messed him up...(also, see Prince's comments about "knowing his own body" and how it reacts to the meds in defense). To Dr S it wasn't the pills making him vomit, it was bad soup, etc...

So, if it seems like people were dragging their feet to get him help, a lot of it is likely because he was dragging his to admit he had a problem. It's not like anyone could force him to do anything and it probably took moving mountains to even get him to take a blood test.

.

I agree. I also think that Prince did not know those Vicodin pills were laced with Fentanyl. Seems like he was concerned for his health, which prompted him to get in touch with Dr. Schulenberg on the 7th, so obviously something was worrying him.

poppys said:

jtfolden said:

In Moline Prince admitted there was "something else" in the Bayer bottle when Kirk said all he had taked was percocet. They DID take a pill to identify it but they did so by appearance only. They did not test the ingredients in it.

Also, ALL the counterfeit pills Prince had were actually lidocaine. *Some* of them were laced with Fentenyl. There is no real evidence at all that Prince knew they were anything at all but what he expected.

If you read all the interviews you also know that Prince was in denial that the meds were the issue. In Moline he insisted he was just "dreaming" and would have come out of it ok and he stated the Narcan is what messed him up...(also, see Prince's comments about "knowing his own body" and how it reacts to the meds in defense). To Dr S it wasn't the pills making him vomit, it was bad soup, etc...

So, if it seems like people were dragging their feet to get him help, a lot of it is likely because he was dragging his to admit he had a problem. It's not like anyone could force him to do anything and it probably took moving mountains to even get him to take a blood test.

Also he was complaining of tingling and numbness. Lidocaine can cause numbness and the dosage was all off anyway, since it was used to cut the Fentanyl.

The source of the pills was not found. Apparently no one else died from that batch - that they could find. That makes me think he got the pills overseas from a person. If they were on the web, more people probably would have died that they could track. The counterfeits were mixed with the legits, so maybe he topped off his supply recently, before Moline. Drug users have a terrible fear of running out, same as alcoholics.

.

The authorities hinted that the pills "may" have come from China. Like I've said before, I have a feeling that someone in Atlanta gave him those bad pills, and the dealer may have gotten them from overseas, like you stated. It makes sense, because they would be very hard to trace.

last night i watched the whitney houston docu "can I be me" and it was pretty much a cliche of the burned out star who supports a leeching entourage, and dies too soon. Very sad, several times, when they spoke about how she supported people, how she had to keep going, I thought of Prince. the saddest part was when a professional bodyguard wrote his report on Whitney, detailing all the drugs she was doing, he reported his findings to the management and he got fired right there, sad as hell.

tmo1965 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Does Jill bring up that P knew that the pills in his Bayer bottle were the ones he overdosed on in MOlene and that he himself refused to let them be tested. I don't think anyone tricked Prince. The doctor confirmed that there was a Bayer bottle that P refused to admit he even took from or have tested. He took those pills again on the 21st. Remember the watsons were not in a traditional bottle and the fentanly laced ones were in the Bayer bottle while the lidocaine were in the Aleve bottle. Also, he had percocet he could have taken that the doctor gave him. He didn't use them. If Prince thought at one point that the mystery pills were the relatively mild hydrocodone and then overdosed on them requiring two narcan shots to shave him, wouldn't he question at that point if the pills were safe and why didn't he just grab the legit percocet which had never caused an overdose in Molene?

[Edited 4/30/18 20:22pm]

[Edited 4/30/18 20:30pm]

This is the part that just does not add up for me. I guess denial is a strong form of self deception. Although there were signs that something was wrong with his health more than 1.5 years before he died, Prince did not start to get really sick from the pills until about 2 weeks before his death. The fact that the pills were in Aleve and Bayer bottles tells me that he was full aware that they were illegally obtained (not necessarily counterfeit) and that he was trying to hide his drug use from others - who would think twice if you saw someone taking an Aleve.

Kirk also knew that they were counterfeit pills and were the cause of Prince's recent illness because Kirk took it upon himself to doctor shop for Prince to get him some legitimate pills from Dr. S and the dentist. However, he may not have shared his concern with Prince, who continued to take the counterfeit pills. In my opinion, this implies that Kirk was the source of the counterfeit pills.

.

Good points!

.

The fact that Prince did not get into trouble until 2-weeks before he passed, tells us that he may have had a new dealer/source to get the pills. When he overdosed in Moline, he probably had no idea the pills were laced with Fentanyl, and so he took another on the 20th. He was blaming the 2 Narcan shots for his symptoms, and not the pills.

I don't know, i have had friends and such who are alcoholics, unless i'm around them a lot i'm not going to tell them anything about what they should do. I will say "i can't be around it" and i stand by those words, that's my way of telling them not to do it.

purplerabbithole said:

I am not saying it was Jill's fault if she noticed odd behavior, suspected drugs but didn't say anything to Prince. Although one could argue, the ladies had nothing to lose if they mentioned it to him. He wasn't their employer anymore. the truth is that anyone was going to struggle talking to him about this stuff.. so the people outside the loop might want to chill a bit and admit that they didn't rush out and confront him either when they were in his presense. Its easy to say "I didn't enable him to the point he died" if they were't given the opportunity to be around him much in the very end. Unless they left because of the drugs (like Sheila claims she did) then I am not sure they can judge a situation they weren't there for.

PeteSilas said:

Jill did mention that at vanity's memorial that she told appolonia and brenda bennet (?) that "he's on something" Prince seemed to sense they were gossipping and came up to ask "what are you talking about?" however, i don't think it's jills fault, i don't believe she was around him very much for the last 20 years, kinda hard for her to say something out of the blue to someone you aren't even around anymore.

PeteSilas said:

I don't know, i have had friends and such who are alcoholics, unless i'm around them a lot i'm not going to tell them anything about what they should do. I will say "i can't be around it" and i stand by those words, that's my way of telling them not to do it.

purplerabbithole said:

I am not saying it was Jill's fault if she noticed odd behavior, suspected drugs but didn't say anything to Prince. Although one could argue, the ladies had nothing to lose if they mentioned it to him. He wasn't their employer anymore. the truth is that anyone was going to struggle talking to him about this stuff.. so the people outside the loop might want to chill a bit and admit that they didn't rush out and confront him either when they were in his presense. Its easy to say "I didn't enable him to the point he died" if they were't given the opportunity to be around him much in the very end. Unless they left because of the drugs (like Sheila claims she did) then I am not sure they can judge a situation they weren't there for.

Well, that's the thing, you can't really tell an addicted person what to do unless he/she is ready to do it. Getting help for addiction, that is. The only other alternative is to get the authorities involved. Although sometimes an intervention confrontation from family and friends works. But, again, that only works if the person is willing to get help.

purplethunder3121 said:

PeteSilas said:

I don't know, i have had friends and such who are alcoholics, unless i'm around them a lot i'm not going to tell them anything about what they should do. I will say "i can't be around it" and i stand by those words, that's my way of telling them not to do it.

Well, that's the thing, you can't really tell an addicted person what to do unless he/she is ready to do it. Getting help for addiction, that is. The only other alternative is to get the authorities involved. Although sometimes an intervention confrontation from family and friends works. But, again, that only works if the person is willing to get help.

it's true, often they have to have something catastrophic happen, maybe a dui, maybe jail, then they get religion, however, after having dealt with alcoholics in my own family, it's not something i am keen to revisit for anyone else. The sheer destruction it's done in so many ways, the suffering, the fetal alcohol syndrome, the physical and mental abuse make it worse than most of the drugs that are illegal.

I have a friend whose 22-year-old son has been using since he was 13-14. He has been in rehab multiple times, been jailed for offenses committed while he was using ... He can stay clean for about six weeks on his own (or while in jail) then he is right back to it. Heroin has been his drug of choice. His parents are at a loss - they have tried everything and nothing has worked beyond those six weeks. Their hearts are breaking because they are afraid one day he will die from using.

1Sasha said:

I have a friend whose 22-year-old son has been using since he was 13-14. He has been in rehab multiple times, been jailed for offenses committed while he was using ... He can stay clean for about six weeks on his own (or while in jail) then he is right back to it. Heroin has been his drug of choice. His parents are at a loss - they have tried everything and nothing has worked beyond those six weeks. Their hearts are breaking because they are afraid one day he will die from using.

ya, and then you have people saying "why didn't they do something?" well, i can tell you from my experiences how absolutely draining it is babysitting someone who is bent on killing themselves. It's exhausting and it didn't do my sister much good.

dontcha agree...people either die or stop....

cloveringold85 said:

jtfolden said:

In Moline Prince admitted there was "something else" in the Bayer bottle when Kirk said all he had taked was percocet. They DID take a pill to identify it but they did so by appearance only. They did not test the ingredients in it.

Also, ALL the counterfeit pills Prince had were actually lidocaine. *Some* of them were laced with Fentenyl. There is no real evidence at all that Prince knew they were anything at all but what he expected.

If you read all the interviews you also know that Prince was in denial that the meds were the issue. In Moline he insisted he was just "dreaming" and would have come out of it ok and he stated the Narcan is what messed him up...(also, see Prince's comments about "knowing his own body" and how it reacts to the meds in defense). To Dr S it wasn't the pills making him vomit, it was bad soup, etc...

So, if it seems like people were dragging their feet to get him help, a lot of it is likely because he was dragging his to admit he had a problem. It's not like anyone could force him to do anything and it probably took moving mountains to even get him to take a blood test.

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I agree. I also think that Prince did not know those Vicodin pills were laced with Fentanyl. Seems like he was concerned for his health, which prompted him to get in touch with Dr. Schulenberg on the 7th, so obviously something was worrying him.

didn't Kurt Cobain od in Rome and was saved and then a few weeks later went to a rehab clinic to get clean but then left and committed suicide...my point being maybe he ,Prince, was concerned for his health , or maybe he was just pleasing those around him