PennyPurple said:

jtfolden said:

He did NOT know there was Fentanyl in them... Also, he did NOT know the pills he had were counterfeit.

I think he very well knew that they were counterfeit. He's been getting the counterfeits for years. This isn't his 1st rodeo.

I think so too PennyPurple. What a talent though.

PeteSilas said:

XxAxX said:

i'm not trying to be preachy or holier-than-thou here. but i don't think Prince would want us all to hate on the people in his circle and in his family.

in my family we have an alcoholic who has been disrupting familoy gatherings for all of us for years. she drinks until she blacks out, calls family members nasty things, steals alcohol from other family members, and absolutely refuses to stop drinking. when confronted she blames others for her drinking problem.

a couple of years ago (after trying interventions, confrontations, and saying "please, please" to get her to stop drinking to extreme excess we sent her a group letter setting it out in black and white: "we are worried about you. we are afraid you will die. please stop drinking."

this only resulted in her pushing all of us away. she will. not. stop. drinking. she chose alcohol over her family.

given this real life personal scenario (still playing out in my family) i don't think anyone could have forced Prince to stop taking opiates.

i don't think the members of Prince's inner circle are all innocent of culpability but i doubt any of them are as evil as we might think they are. for all we know some of them did try to get him help.

i think Prince would want us to show mercy and compassion in the name of L4OA. just my 2c

I'm no expert but they say the addict is just expressing his family's sickness

that's correct. my childhood experiences involved alcoholism, violent domestic abuse at the dinner table and sexual molestation (a family friend). to say we were dysfunctional is an understatement. i'm pretty sure my alcoholic family member was also molested, but she says she doesn't remember it and will not seek counseling. again, no one can force her.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

You wanna know what she said over there regarding suicide and Prince's son? "If he didn't have a problem taking Amiir off of life support, he wouldn't have a problem with suicide." Something of that nature. When I read that, I was about to smash the screen of my laptop to little pieces. Laura fits the pattern of certain people who called themselves Prince's friends, it's seems like she has no soul.

[Snip – luv4u]

kmama07 said:

shednz said:

PennyPurple said:

I think he very well knew that they were counterfeit. He's been getting the counterfeits for years. This isn't his 1st rodeo.

I think so too PennyPurple. What a talent though.

talent, success, money,a loooong career, physical beauty, the 'love' of millions, respect from his fellow musicians (I purposely didn't write 'peers' because there were none),the pleasure of having untold numbers of willing partners in his bed (or on his kitchen table), gorgeous custom clothes for decades, bespoke shoes, travel, beautiful homes, world-wide fame,the fantasy of 'control', faith in a heavenly Father, love of God...no child, no life-long mate, no long years, no life without physical pain, secrets, lies, betrayel, shame, loss of control...loss of his life. You couldn't make this story up...no one would believe you. RIP.

dreamer5 said:

Purplebflogirl said:

Every single person who had knowledge of his problem should feel incredibly guilty.But by the looks of the Celebration pictures they look happy. And once this information was given to the family they all should of been removed from appearing at the Celebration.

Yes they should've been removed, but you have to remember, they're all fake.

Oh Sheila you're the best, no no Kirk is the best, no no Kim is the best, wait what about me, Tyka?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

[Snip – luv4u]

you said you would wait for me before you opened that bottle of the good stuff!

shednz said:

jtfolden said:

I'm not sure what you mean... it seems pretty clear that Prince didn't know there was Fentanyl in only specific pills and he had absolutely no way of nowing one pill from another just by looking at them. The lgitimate pills, the counterfeit with lidocaine, and the counterfeit with lidocaine and fentanyl all looked the same.

He knew because the pills in the Bayer bottle were all of one type - fentanyl and licodaine; and the pills in the Aleve bottle were all licodaine. If he was actually after hydrocodone/oxycodone, as the counterfeit pills were marked, he could have taken legitimate versions of those - a bottle written out to Kirk was there - they had just got them from Walgreens. That's my understanding of events having gone through all the documentation on the NYT website. Of course, noone alive really knows, well maybe Kirk. But that's just my reading of the evidence. Which parts of the evidence makes you think he was actually after real watson 853s and took the fentanyl thinking it was hydrocodone?

ok here's my question...why didn't he die that night at the hospital cause he took it out of the bayer aspirin bottle that night right? and then why did he die at paisley park. and why was the fentanyl level so horrificly high when he died? and why did the dr. say there was no fentanyl in his system on...when was it, crap I can't remember. I could have sworn the dr. said there was no fentanyl in his system that afternoon before he died. (i am probably wrong about that) But then after he died it was horrid. HOW MANY PILLS DID HE TAKE when he died? And clearly, I guess, he would have died on the plane as well if people hadn't been there. And why on earth did the hospital return that bayer aspirin bottle to him..(i read that on another site) And nobody thinks prince went out and got illegal pills himself so it IS murder...whoever got those pills is a murderer. And there are certain people who are saying they knew nothing that I just don't believe...even the innocent looking ones...

cloveringold85 said:

NotACleverName said:

PennyPurple said: The attorney is saying they will have "much to say" later but only had until April 21, 2018 to file intent due to the 2 year cap. They have included Walgreens because they say WG dispensed meds to Kirk (prescribed oxy/perc) but the doctor was aware they would be given to Prince. Hospital included because they only "visually" identified the illicit Hydro and did not run any metabolic tests, or a breakdown of contents, on them.

.

How could Walgreen's be liable? -- they dispensed a Rx that was called in by a legitimate doctor. There is no crime in that.

.

The doctor in Moline probably assumed (yea, that word) the pills were legit, and didn't think to test them. I'm sure now she wishes she did.

.

Prince refused any testing in Moline.

Reread what you replied to. The Moline Dr knew P was lying about the drugs and sent them to the hospital pharmacist for validation. The pharmist looked at them and pretty much shrugged them off as the real thing -- and it's obvious now that they were fentanyl.

IF they had tested that pill even after he left the hospital, they may have saved his life.

WHY in the hell didn't he take the drugs that Dr S put in Kirk's name? Habit? Maybe they weren't on the plane?

What a mess. A sad mess that never should have happened.
Damn him. He obviously had a carpal tunnel problem from all that piano playing and THAT can be easily repaired. His hip hurt? Take care of it. I guess killing the pain was easier.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

shednz said:

I think so too PennyPurple. What a talent though.

talent, success, money,a loooong career, physical beauty, the 'love' of millions, respect from his fellow musicians (I purposely didn't write 'peers' because there were none),the pleasure of having untold numbers of willing partners in his bed (or on his kitchen table), gorgeous custom clothes for decades, bespoke shoes, travel, beautiful homes, world-wide fame,the fantasy of 'control', faith in a heavenly Father, love of God...no child, no life-long mate, no long years, no life without physical pain, secrets, lies, betrayel, shame, loss of control...loss of his life. You couldn't make this story up...no one would believe you. RIP.

Amen to that.

kmama07 said:

MMJas said:

They had a famous patient who needed two narcan shots to regain consciousness. That same famous patient was being secretive but eventually stated that he had taken something else. The doctor then took that something else pill and sent it out for what should have been testing but instead was merely a visual confirmation of the medicine, something that any person could have done since it was marked watson whatever. The doctor, realizing Prince was lying about what he took and refused to do blood tests should have checked the composition for those pills, imo.

So, theoretically the question/legal argument will be whether or not hospital had the obligation to check composition of pill even though Prince refused to be cooperative/accept treatment offered?

The "family" argument is that the pharmacist DID NOT do what the Moline Dr asked. The pill could easily have been held and sent for testing. I'm sure they knew he had a deep pocket for the billing.

rogifan said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Don't you think there is good coming out of all of this? The liars and scammers are being exposed.

.

No one ever wanted to see this, but Prince is no longer here because people wanted to protect his privacy.

.

In reality, had Prince got himself into treatment years ago, he would have been better off -- and none of his business would be out there right now.

.

But, I look at all of this as a blessing from God above, because all these liars and thieves are being exposed for who they truly are. God works in mysterious ways.

.

That's how I look at it.

Maybe it makes people feel good to believe associates are being exposed. But Sheila was at Celebration this year, Kirk was on stage playing drums at Target Center concert and tours with the NPG so... Anyway I think it’s just sad and tragic all around. Whatever his struggles were if he wanted the public/fans to know about it he would have shared it. Now it seems so dirty and a massive invasion of privacy.

Please....those associates have been exposed to the Prince fans on paper since last week. If it wasn't for Prince fans, people wouldn't know who they are. As Prince fans we need to step up to the plate and not support these azz's any longer. They no longer get our $$ maybe they'll go away. The media needs to start putting the heat on them and we do too. Turn up the heat and watch them sweat.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

pricetag said:

Surprised there wasn't more of a spotlight on the Weltons. Something always felt a little off about them--especially the God schtick. Usually, that's what happens, the stronger the faith in God, the bigger the hypocrisy. Also, how does Josh---a guy who tags along with his wife (and, let's face it, an unremarkable talent), get to become the center of things until the point at which he ends up producing a Prince album? Perhaps there's more to it. Two things about the aftermath: their police interview smacks of non-compliance. Their best friend and mentor has died but they want to cut things short because they have another appt. And, of course, the alleged paper shredding. Ask why it's being done first. Then why he's the one doing it.

it's called hiding behind God. (have no idea if thats what happened here but i grew up in church) How would they not know...how would anyone not know..if someone had a pill addiction that bad. every single person in this whole group has to be looked at with skepticism due to the fact that somewhere in this circle was probably the supplier...*and of course I think it was kirk johnson, but you never know...also the chauffeur included...and past associates...and everyone who knew...and anyone in the little town of chanhassen...Prince was not his own supplier. Do you think?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

[Snip – luv4u]

you said you would wait for me before you opened that bottle of the good stuff!

Sorry. These reports are coming in fast. I'll save a swig.

BTW, Can you get one of our esteemed friends in here to ummmm , calculate what the ME stated? You know... the hydrocodone thing not showing up in his blood and only in the urine business? There are some numbers attached to that, and time, and so forth.... All roads lead to Rome... which of course, is an accident.

How in heaven did someone like "Dr.D" ever guess so many things that were right? Probably had a crsytal ball eh?

cindyt said:

shednz said:

He knew because the pills in the Bayer bottle were all of one type - fentanyl and licodaine; and the pills in the Aleve bottle were all licodaine. If he was actually after hydrocodone/oxycodone, as the counterfeit pills were marked, he could have taken legitimate versions of those - a bottle written out to Kirk was there - they had just got them from Walgreens. That's my understanding of events having gone through all the documentation on the NYT website. Of course, noone alive really knows, well maybe Kirk. But that's just my reading of the evidence. Which parts of the evidence makes you think he was actually after real watson 853s and took the fentanyl thinking it was hydrocodone?

ok here's my question...why didn't he die that night at the hospital cause he took it out of the bayer aspirin bottle that night right? and then why did he die at paisley park. and why was the fentanyl level so horrificly high when he died? and why did the dr. say there was no fentanyl in his system on...when was it, crap I can't remember. I could have sworn the dr. said there was no fentanyl in his system that afternoon before he died. (i am probably wrong about that) But then after he died it was horrid. HOW MANY PILLS DID HE TAKE when he died? And clearly, I guess, he would have died on the plane as well if people hadn't been there. And why on earth did the hospital return that bayer aspirin bottle to him..(i read that on another site) And nobody thinks prince went out and got illegal pills himself so it IS murder...whoever got those pills is a murderer. And there are certain people who are saying they knew nothing that I just don't believe...even the innocent looking ones...

Why didn't he die in Moine? he kinda did - they had to give him twice the hit of narcan they normally need to bring him back. Also, junkies do a lot of drugs becoming and being junkies before they die from drugs - it takes a toll. Also, he may well have had a break this time, then taken his normal dose and that was too much.

The fentanyl level question: I'd like to find the Chicago DEA lab report that was done to determine the amount of fentanyl in the Bayer bottle pills. Can't find it yet. Schulenberg did bloods and urine tests - blood tests are only good for 12 hours after taking it; 8-24 hours for urine. If he had allowed a test at Moines it would have showed up - that's why he didn't allow it, I would argue.

How many pills did he take? - need that Chicago lab report for that answer.

Why did the hosipital give him the bottle back? Never thought of that - that'll be part of the lawsuit coming I bet.

He may well have got the pills himself. There is no murderer. He knew what he was taking and what it was doing. There are definitely enablers.

Mumio said:

There is still much diversion going on, but the truth is out there and it will come out.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

[Snip – luv4u]

you said you would wait for me before you opened that bottle of the good stuff!

Did someone just circumsize me?

cindyt said:

shednz said:

He knew because the pills in the Bayer bottle were all of one type - fentanyl and licodaine; and the pills in the Aleve bottle were all licodaine. If he was actually after hydrocodone/oxycodone, as the counterfeit pills were marked, he could have taken legitimate versions of those - a bottle written out to Kirk was there - they had just got them from Walgreens. That's my understanding of events having gone through all the documentation on the NYT website. Of course, noone alive really knows, well maybe Kirk. But that's just my reading of the evidence. Which parts of the evidence makes you think he was actually after real watson 853s and took the fentanyl thinking it was hydrocodone?

ok here's my question...why didn't he die that night at the hospital cause he took it out of the bayer aspirin bottle that night right? and then why did he die at paisley park. and why was the fentanyl level so horrificly high when he died? and why did the dr. say there was no fentanyl in his system on...when was it, crap I can't remember. I could have sworn the dr. said there was no fentanyl in his system that afternoon before he died. (i am probably wrong about that) But then after he died it was horrid. HOW MANY PILLS DID HE TAKE when he died? And clearly, I guess, he would have died on the plane as well if people hadn't been there. And why on earth did the hospital return that bayer aspirin bottle to him..(i read that on another site) And nobody thinks prince went out and got illegal pills himself so it IS murder...whoever got those pills is a murderer. And there are certain people who are saying they knew nothing that I just don't believe...even the innocent looking ones...

He didn't die in Moline because they got help, those Narcan shots x 2. He died at PP because nobody was there when he OD to call for help.

laytonian said:

kmama07 said:

MMJas said: So, theoretically the question/legal argument will be whether or not hospital had the obligation to check composition of pill even though Prince refused to be cooperative/accept treatment offered?

The "family" argument is that the pharmacist DID NOT do what the Moline Dr asked. The pill could easily have been held and sent for testing. I'm sure they knew he had a deep pocket for the billing.

here's my area of confusion: yes he was in the hospital but did that make him legally the patient of the attending physician in the face of his refusal of treatment? Where do the patients' rights to refuse treatment butt up against the hospitals right to cover its ass?...So, an uncooperative patient who lies about why he really got transported to a hospital can harm the very people who are only there to help? It doesn't seem right. Can any lawyers out there help untangle this?

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

you said you would wait for me before you opened that bottle of the good stuff!

Did someone just circumsize me?

Menes said:

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

you said you would wait for me before you opened that bottle of the good stuff!

Sorry. These reports are coming in fast. I'll save a swig.

BTW, Can you get one of our esteemed friends in here to ummmm , calculate what the ME stated? You know... the hydrocodone thing not showing up in his blood and only in the urine business? There are some numbers attached to that, and time, and so forth.... All roads lead to Rome... which of course, is an accident.

How in heaven did someone like "Dr.D" ever guess so many things that were right? Probably had a crsytal ball eh?

a crystal ball and a well-heeled (pun intended) LONG-time client; a little black dude with a big habit...

[Edited 4/23/18 19:26pm]

shednz said:

shednz said:

cindyt said:

ok here's my question...why didn't he die that night at the hospital cause he took it out of the bayer aspirin bottle that night right? and then why did he die at paisley park. and why was the fentanyl level so horrificly high when he died? and why did the dr. say there was no fentanyl in his system on...when was it, crap I can't remember. I could have sworn the dr. said there was no fentanyl in his system that afternoon before he died. (i am probably wrong about that) But then after he died it was horrid. HOW MANY PILLS DID HE TAKE when he died? And clearly, I guess, he would have died on the plane as well if people hadn't been there. And why on earth did the hospital return that bayer aspirin bottle to him..(i read that on another site) And nobody thinks prince went out and got illegal pills himself so it IS murder...whoever got those pills is a murderer. And there are certain people who are saying they knew nothing that I just don't believe...even the innocent looking ones...

Why didn't he die in Moine? he kinda did - they had to give him twice the hit of narcan they normally need to bring him back. Also, junkies do a lot of drugs becoming and being junkies before they die from drugs - it takes a toll. Also, he may well have had a break this time, then taken his normal dose and that was too much.

The fentanyl level question: I'd like to find the Chicago DEA lab report that was done to determine the amount of fentanyl in the Bayer bottle pills. Can't find it yet. Schulenberg did bloods and urine tests - blood tests are only good for 12 hours after taking it; 8-24 hours for urine. If he had allowed a test at Moines it would have showed up - that's why he didn't allow it, I would argue.

How many pills did he take? - need that Chicago lab report for that answer.

Why did the hosipital give him the bottle back? Never thought of that - that'll be part of the lawsuit coming I bet.

He may well have got the pills himself. There is no murderer. He knew what he was taking and what it was doing. There are definitely enablers.

um...that IS the lawsuit...that's what laura richardson said over on lipstick alley. I thought the lawsuit was cause they released him...but she said and I quote (and I hope I'm right about this) that the lawsuit is because of them giving back the pills. I am assuming that is the lr I keep seeing about over here LOLOL...I don't know anything about THAT but why would they give him back those pills???

Question: there was a photo taken that shows a white powdery substance spilled out on a table next to a spoon. In any of the docs did they ever confirm what that was?

Cause that pic is definitely not a good look - at a glance it looks like drugs - and kinda frustrating that they just released that picture without explaining what it is exactly...

was he crushing up lots of pills and drinking them with water maybe because he had a sore throat or something??

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Sorry. These reports are coming in fast. I'll save a swig.

BTW, Can you get one of our esteemed friends in here to ummmm , calculate what the ME stated? You know... the hydrocodone thing not showing up in his blood and only in the urine business? There are some numbers attached to that, and time, and so forth.... All roads lead to Rome... which of course, is an accident.

How in heaven did someone like "Dr.D" ever guess so many things that were right? Probably had a crsytal ball eh?

a crystal ball and a well-heeled (pun intended) little black dude with a big habit...

You know, I think that person stated these things prior to any leaks, or for that matter, the autopsy being completed. I think the ME called the detectives back on (5-9) to report her findings? I mean, if you are that accurate, and knew this for yearrrrrrrs prior to his death, how long did we say Prince was addicted ? Something is off.

cindyt said:

pricetag said:

Surprised there wasn't more of a spotlight on the Weltons. Something always felt a little off about them--especially the God schtick. Usually, that's what happens, the stronger the faith in God, the bigger the hypocrisy. Also, how does Josh---a guy who tags along with his wife (and, let's face it, an unremarkable talent), get to become the center of things until the point at which he ends up producing a Prince album? Perhaps there's more to it. Two things about the aftermath: their police interview smacks of non-compliance. Their best friend and mentor has died but they want to cut things short because they have another appt. And, of course, the alleged paper shredding. Ask why it's being done first. Then why he's the one doing it.

it's called hiding behind God. (have no idea if thats what happened here but i grew up in church) How would they not know...how would anyone not know..if someone had a pill addiction that bad. every single person in this whole group has to be looked at with skepticism due to the fact that somewhere in this circle was probably the supplier...*and of course I think it was kirk johnson, but you never know...also the chauffeur included...and past associates...and everyone who knew...and anyone in the little town of chanhassen...Prince was not his own supplier. Do you think?

To take that one more step....

.

Why is LG getting a pass here? It’s possible that he supplied P with the drugs, maybe to control him, make P dependent on him so P could try to resurrect his sorry a$$ career. What about Chaka? LG is the one who basically told Mani years ago she did’t know what she was talking about when she express concern that her HUSBAND was using drugs, and told her not do anything.

.

Something’s wrong with this whole picture… the whole JW cult thing, LG so holy, P like a puppy following LG and LG 'hipping' P to the Truth. All just weird. P was never the same guy once he got hooked up with LG. The swear jar, the Jahova talk… P was living his life a lie by trying to be something he wasn’t , it was crushing his real personality, people change but don’t make a 180 like that, and that had to take a toll on him emotionally.

.

Come on? LG’s the biggest moocher of them all. You might say to an extent he basically broke up both of P’s marriages… all to keep him in line in the ‘church’ and selfishly to promote LG himself….LG boxed P into a corner with regards to how he was 'supposed' to run his life. The first thing a brainwasher does is make the subject chnage his daily life. That is what LG did and P was trapped.

.

I think Josh and Hannah brought religion from a different viewpoint and P probably welcomed that.

.

Hope I don’t get snipped, don’t mean to offend anyone…. but I have to let it out. ~DD55

NotACleverName said:

Menes said:

Sorry. These reports are coming in fast. I'll save a swig. BTW, Can you get one of our esteemed friends in here to ummmm , calculate what the ME stated? You know... the hydrocodone thing not showing up in his blood and only in the urine business? There are some numbers attached to that, and time, and so forth.... All roads lead to Rome... which of course, is an accident. How in heaven did someone like "Dr.D" ever guess so many things that were right? Probably had a crsytal ball eh?

Just gonna slide inconspicuously into this empty stool.....the Dilaudid (hydromorphone) connection has perked my ears.

Oh, there are all sorts of small clues lying around here. Namely, in the math and time.