herb4 said:

I guess we can put the rest the majority of the conspiracy theories now. I think we have a pretty good idea what happened and who procured the illicit pills. My guess is that the authorites simply can't prove it yet; enough to build a case anyway.

The lack of genuine understand concerning the nature of addiction, pain management and, in particular, opioid prescription drug abuse is astonishing. Many, many of you are talking about things you don't know about but only read in the news. To wit:

- addicts are remarkably clever at masking and hiding their addicitons. For someone like Prince, who was as private as he was powerful and surrounded by yes men, it would be even easier. His own wife was blind to it.

- A Vicodin habit (or even an oxcodone habit) would in NO WAY inhibit Prince's ability to function at a high level. So many of you just here "DRUGS!" and assume that these medicines turn you into Kieth Richards or Amy Winehouse. It doesn't work like that. Many, many people function perfectly normal and use the medications daily. A lot of them more than prescribed. Pro atheletes in particular function prefectly fine and pop these things like skittles. Doctors, lawyers, politicians and people from all walks of life regularly use these meds. They don't turn you into Sid Vicious or something out of Transpotting, Requiem for a Dream or The Basketball Diaries, so the fact that Prince functioned at a very high level is not evidence that he wasn't using. Often, opioids ENHANCE creativity. It's not an Afterschool Special. This cannot be emphasized enough.

I have more but I'll leave it there for now.

i don't know, all i can tell you is most people, musicians particularly, are pretty fucked up when they play with those things. They change your thinking too which might be the most profound change. Elvis wasn't anything like the young man he started out as. With Michael, it was obvious to me that he wasn't the same after the drugs as he was before them. You could see it in his eyes, usually half closed. Some people can do prodigious amounts of drugs and have no one be the wiser. Some people can drink all day and function fine, some people get sloppy as hell after one beer. I'm no expert but most of the time there are glaring signs of use, even if it's something as simple as having an awful temper on a monday morning (alcoholism).

No. People don't function at a high level under these types of pills. That's bananas. Quite the contrary. Anyone saying that has no idea and no clue. Doctors have actually started to ween patients not just because of their addictiveness, but because people tend to fall and hurt themselves doing everyday tasks.

I mean it says so the first paragraph of any of these medications. Not to drive or operate heavy equipment. A lot of the injuries especially to elderly is from taking a fall and end up far worse for it.

Ingela said:

No. People don't function at a high level under these types of pills. That's bananas. Quite the contrary. Anyone saying that has no idea and no clue. Doctors have actually started to ween patients not just because of their addictiveness, but because people tend to fall and hurt themselves doing everyday tasks.

I mean it says so the first paragraph of any of these medications. Not to drive or operate heavy equipment. A lot of the injuries especially to elderly is from taking a fall and end up far worse for it.

i wouldn't think so but I don't know much about opiods. The thing about "no one would know" that someone is hooked on opiods is interesting. But like I say i wouldn't know.

[Flame snip - luv4u]

PeteSilas said:

Ingela said:

No. People don't function at a high level under these types of pills. That's bananas. Quite the contrary. Anyone saying that has no idea and no clue. Doctors have actually started to ween patients not just because of their addictiveness, but because people tend to fall and hurt themselves doing everyday tasks.

I mean it says so the first paragraph of any of these medications. Not to drive or operate heavy equipment. A lot of the injuries especially to elderly is from taking a fall and end up far worse for it.

i wouldn't think so but I don't know much about opiods. The thing about "no one would know" that someone is hooked on opiods is interesting. But like I say i wouldn't know.

Have you even been to the dentist and needed someone to drive you home? Or had too much to drink and needed someone to drive you home?

Same thing.

Your body will quickly build tolerance to it and people ratchet up needing more and more and suffer withdrawals if they don't. It's a horrible cycle that no one is immune to.

I have nothing but sympathy for anyone suffering from chronic pain. I have friends suffering from it and it's heartbreaking.

PeteSilas said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

LR is banned? She has always been a tremendous Prince supporter. How could this be?

1Sasha said:

PeteSilas said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

LR is banned? She has always been a tremendous Prince supporter. How could this be?

I doubt if she is that its anything but a ten day thing if that. She is opinionated and can drive you crazy but she's cool in her own way.

PeteSilas said:

LRCdancer88 said:

Rednblue and disch thank you so much for the wonderful things you said here. Couldn't agree more!!

disch said:

I completely agree about the devastating affect of stigmas on people struggling with addiction; stigma prevents people from getting the help they need for their addiction as well as underlying physical or mental-health issues and that is enormously desctructive. I have no doubt that not only did stigma affect Prince, it afffected him far worse than a non-famous person because he had a whole carefully crafted public image and fan-base judgment to deal with.

-

My point is, in the case of Prince, he is now dead. That isn't changing, so whatever people feel about his particular health problems, his drug use, whatever -- whether it repulses them, they "don't tolerate it," they now hate him -- that's all on them. It has no impact on Prince because he's gone.

Cosign. Rednblue and disch - thank you for fighting the good fight. Everyone twisting themselves into knots - I know how much it hurts - how much it really really hurts - but the evidence is incontrovertible...the best we can do is try and understand what was going on with him that led to this outcome, and have compassion for him, and understand that nothing about it means we have to love him one iota less.

Ingela said:

PeteSilas said:

i wouldn't think so but I don't know much about opiods. The thing about "no one would know" that someone is hooked on opiods is interesting. But like I say i wouldn't know.

Have you even been to the dentist and needed someone to drive you home? Or had too much to drink and needed someone to drive you home?

Same thing.

Your body will quickly build tolerance to it and people ratchet up needing more and more and suffer withdrawals if they don't. It's a horrible cycle that no one is immune to.

I have nothing but sympathy for anyone suffering from chronic pain. I have friends suffering from it and it's heartbreaking.

not as an adult. I have had my knee shot up before, so I know how good an opioid feels. Anyway, we've got to find other ways to deal with pain and....we also have to find ways to take care of ourselves. We can't be playing football and then blaming the man for your injuries, that much is a choice.

1Sasha said:

PeteSilas said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

LR is banned? She has always been a tremendous Prince supporter. How could this be?

I'm not sure, i looked up her profile and it does this little thing where you can't get any info, (I know because i've been banned twice!).

PeteSilas said:

I don't think it's a concidence that the change in Prince's appearance and the sharp turn into the illicit procuring of drugs directly coincides with the DEA rescheduling these medications and cracking down on them. Regular PCP's and GP's refused to prescribe and even the places that do were strictly monitored and regulated. Even pharmacies were unbder the microscope.

But by then, the genie was out of the bottle. The people that really NEEDED the meds were denied them or had to jump through more stringent hoops to get them while the ones that used them for kicks, sold them or unwillingly developed a dependency resorted to other means to obtain them. They've almost single handidly created an entire sub culture of addicts and, worse, in their shortsightedness, gave birth to an incredible spike in heroin use; not to mention the counterfeit racket that arose that ultimately led to what to happened to Prince.

oliviacamron said:

PeteSilas said:

it's funny but i think even if we had all the info, there'd still be factions of different opinions. Michael Jackson was pretty clearly killed by propofol but some people think it was a fuckup by the doctor and some people think the doctor somehow was a plant to murder him. With Bruce Lee, there are still widely varying beliefs of what killed him, death curse, pain pill allergy,beating by the chinese mafia, even though this has mostly been cleared up by a doctor who treated him before he died for an allergic reaction to hashish, that's what happens when people cover things up, lie and use deciet.

Pete, you mean MJs very own family say he was murdered, not just some people

not just his family, some of the fans, old delusional dick gregory. I don't think so though, I just think murray was a fuckup. what do you think?

PeteSilas said:

Ingela said:

No. People don't function at a high level under these types of pills. That's bananas. Quite the contrary. Anyone saying that has no idea and no clue. Doctors have actually started to ween patients not just because of their addictiveness, but because people tend to fall and hurt themselves doing everyday tasks.

I mean it says so the first paragraph of any of these medications. Not to drive or operate heavy equipment. A lot of the injuries especially to elderly is from taking a fall and end up far worse for it.

i wouldn't think so but I don't know much about opiods. The thing about "no one would know" that someone is hooked on opiods is interesting. But like I say i wouldn't know.

Actually, yes they still can function normally under this type of medication esp if they have been taking them for very long periods of time. The risks of coming off them however and the damage they can do are very real. My father functions on a drug one step from high dose Morphine (can't recall it's name) due to chronic pain caused by Ankylosing Spondylitis, he was put on painkillers over four decades ago, just so that he could function otherwise he literally would not be able to walk. The problem is that this drug is now no longer prescribed because of the damaging effects it can do to the body (which sadly is the case with my dad) BUT my father is still given this drug as his GP has said if he is taken off it now his body will shut down.

But believe me, if you met him you would never now he was on anything. In fact when he has routine check ups the hospital is amazed that he is still walking around because of how strong this drug is.

More understanding of chronic pain and the need for controlled pain management is crucial. You can't just stop taking them, as we have clearly seen.

PeteSilas said:

herb4 said:

I don't think it's a concidence that the change in Prince's appearance and the sharp turn into the illicit procuring of drugs directly coincides with the DEA rescheduling these medications and cracking down on them. Regular PCP's and GP's refused to prescribe and even the places that do were strictly monitored and regulated. Even pharmacies were unbder the microscope.

But by then, the genie was out of the bottle. The people that really NEEDED the meds were denied them or had to jump through more stringent hoops to get them while the ones that used them for kicks, sold them or unwillingly developed a dependency resorted to other means to obtain them. They've almost single handidly created an entire sub culture of addicts and, worse, in their shortsightedness, gave birth to an incredible spike in heroin use; not to mention the counterfeit racket that arose that ultimately led to what to happened to Prince.

Yep, I agree with everything you said.

oliviacamron said:

PeteSilas said:

not just his family, some of the fans, old delusional dick gregory. I don't think so though, I just think murray was a fuckup. what do you think?

I think MJ was killed along with allot of other celebs. I don't like or believe half the stuff Dick Gregory says( I actually don't listen to him), but I think this Illuminati Satan worship shit is true. It's kinda in the Bible in an indirect way. New world order with the Antichrist ruling the world, stuff like that.

no, i just think drugs aren't something to take unless your life depends on it. Murray was just a fuckup. What did he gain out of it? Is he rich today?

PeteSilas said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

It's showing her as being online...

.
I sincerely hope she isn't banned...I know she rubs some people the wrong way and can be a little 'brusque' but I find her to be a compendium of interesting P-related information and insights, even if we're not always in total agreement! Variety is the spice of life, I say!

.

A RESPONSE TO THE BOMBAST OF HATE!

.

1. My insinuation Prince was a "Junkie"

I obviously got carried away here, I only read 4 of the 37 pages and about 6 of the documents released. I just saw the ones that said there were bottles of fetanyl with fake names on it, all over the place. Also the presence of Josh Kornberg who was obviously there to keep Prince high and happy. I have seen this before, these crooked drug dealer doctors exploiting rich stars and keeping them high and flying. Yes he had serious hip pain, but had had surgery and could have existed taking non opiate painkillers with less strength, we all knew about hips from gossip and the fact he did no dancing at all during the Piano and Microphone tour. Calling him a junkie was extreme, but he was a conscious drug user and this flies in the face of his anti drug propaganda he kept.

2. People who need opiate based painkillers to live

I was not referring to you guys, calm down, being a NZer where drugs are restricted heavily by a robust system of doctorship and pharmacopia, we are not familiar with illegal drug based painkillers, here paracetamol is king and even pseudoepherdrine has been banned due to "p" makers. Also I am in perfect health and need no drugs or pills to live, such is my ignorance over the less healthy. Also any of the types of medicines Prince was using would involve signing a register and being known to the Ministry of Health, not like America where dodgy doctors sell illegal and dangerous drug tainted medicines to the highest bidder. They have no ethics except the pursuit of money over misery.

3. Rose coloured glasses blind devotion fans

I don't take you guys seriously, you know the ones who would still see Prince as a virtuous diamond even if he fucked and killed children and then drank their blood, and people's who life is so beret of anything, that questioning let alone insulting a musician is insulting them. I love Prince, but I have a life outside him too. Music is not my life. I love to listen to music, but being 41 I have other things in my life too.

4. The Purple Haze

I know reelz is not reputable but the documentary showed Prince as a drug addict addicted to these painkillers even long after the operation was over. The same problem hindered Michael Jackson who was also addicted to these painkillers readily supplied by Arnold Klein, Conrad Murray and others. Like Prince Michael also advocated this Clean living, super christian nonsense. Plus earlier books liek Liz Jones, slave to the rhythm mention Prince having a drug and wine cocktail in 1996 and of course in 1987 the Ecstasy. These are more than one offs and proof that at least by the late 80s Prince was taking drugs. He looked like a classic drug addict during the deathly pale 1994/1995 era. Also his skinniness makes me suspicious. Prince may have been clean living in the 1970s and early/mid 1980s. But look at pictures of him them, he looks healthy and happy, by 1987 he looks washed out and tired all the time, gaunt and skinny. Over time we may learn more of what Prince was doing in his spare time away from Music and sex.

5. My journey with drugs

My hard stance also is because my real father was a junkie all his life high on dope and methamphetamine, he left my mother for drugs and I suspect my mother was using cannabis when I was born. Both of my parents later (Stepfather and Mother), I love them, but they got fired from the Prison service for selling marijuana to inmates and beating them up. I had junkie parents, a junkie brother who at 43 is entirely fucked up. I use NO drugs and do not smoke and hate the fucking things to death. My partner is also similarly anti drugs, and I do not associate with drug users. I drink a bit of wine and that is as far as it goes. i can easily live without it. Yet because I am fat, these junkies give me shit all the time they die in their early 60s at most. I will hopefully live into my 90s.

6. I have aspergers syndrome

We shoot from the lip and often have to suffer the consequences of hastily thought out remarks later.

.

I am not asking for your forgiveness but merely stating the method to my madness

clairew1975 said:

PeteSilas said:

i wouldn't think so but I don't know much about opiods. The thing about "no one would know" that someone is hooked on opiods is interesting. But like I say i wouldn't know.

Actually, yes they still can function normally under this type of medication esp if they have been taking them for very long periods of time. The risks of coming off them however and the damage they can do are very real. My father functions on a drug one step from high dose Morphine (can't recall it's name) due to chronic pain caused by Ankylosing Spondylitis, he was put on painkillers over four decades ago, just so that he could function otherwise he literally would not be able to walk. The problem is that this drug is now no longer prescribed because of the damaging effects it can do to the body (which sadly is the case with my dad) BUT my father is still given this drug as his GP has said if he is taken off it now his body will shut down.

But believe me, if you met him you would never now he was on anything. In fact when he has routine check ups the hospital is amazed that he is still walking around because of how strong this drug is.

More understanding of chronic pain and the need for controlled pain management is crucial. You can't just stop taking them, as we have clearly seen.

Well, I've never personally seen that to be the case. Not with any drugs or alcohol. Not even pot. People behave differently.

Dibblekins said:

PeteSilas said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

It's showing her as being online...

.
I sincerely hope she isn't banned...I know she rubs some people the wrong way and can be a little 'brusque' but I find her to be a compendium of interesting P-related information and insights, even if we're not always in total agreement! Variety is the spice of life, I say!

.

i love laura, she's a total fanatic in a good way, not too many people here know more minutiae about Prince and his acts as me and she always seems to top me.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

LR is banned? She has always been a tremendous Prince supporter. How could this be?

I'm not sure, i looked up her profile and it does this little thing where you can't get any info, (I know because i've been banned twice!).

I noticed the same this morning ..I looked for her and her Profile is inactive....

SHe is such a staunch defender of Prince and her words might sometimes bite if you allow ego to come into Play...But she always comes from a space of clear thinking and unemotional analysis.

I hope she comes back soon.

your opinion is your opinion, don't apologize.

Adorecream said:

A RESPONSE TO THE BOMBAST OF HATE!

.

1. My insinuation Prince was a "Junkie"

I obviously got carried away here, I only read 4 of the 37 pages and about 6 of the documents released. I just saw the ones that said there were bottles of fetanyl with fake names on it, all over the place. Also the presence of Josh Kornberg who was obviously there to keep Prince high and happy. I have seen this before, these crooked drug dealer doctors exploiting rich stars and keeping them high and flying. Yes he had serious hip pain, but had had surgery and could have existed taking non opiate painkillers with less strength, we all knew about hips from gossip and the fact he did no dancing at all during the Piano and Microphone tour. Calling him a junkie was extreme, but he was a conscious drug user and this flies in the face of his anti drug propaganda he kept.

2. People who need opiate based painkillers to live

I was not referring to you guys, calm down, being a NZer where drugs are restricted heavily by a robust system of doctorship and pharmacopia, we are not familiar with illegal drug based painkillers, here paracetamol is king and even pseudoepherdrine has been banned due to "p" makers. Also I am in perfect health and need no drugs or pills to live, such is my ignorance over the less healthy. Also any of the types of medicines Prince was using would involve signing a register and being known to the Ministry of Health, not like America where dodgy doctors sell illegal and dangerous drug tainted medicines to the highest bidder. They have no ethics except the pursuit of money over misery.

3. Rose coloured glasses blind devotion fans

I don't take you guys seriously, you know the ones who would still see Prince as a virtuous diamond even if he fucked and killed children and then drank their blood, and people's who life is so beret of anything, that questioning let alone insulting a musician is insulting them. I love Prince, but I have a life outside him too. Music is not my life. I love to listen to music, but being 41 I have other things in my life too.

4. The Purple Haze

I know reelz is not reputable but the documentary showed Prince as a drug addict addicted to these painkillers even long after the operation was over. The same problem hindered Michael Jackson who was also addicted to these painkillers readily supplied by Arnold Klein, Conrad Murray and others. Like Prince Michael also advocated this Clean living, super christian nonsense. Plus earlier books liek Liz Jones, slave to the rhythm mention Prince having a drug and wine cocktail in 1996 and of course in 1987 the Ecstasy. These are more than one offs and proof that at least by the late 80s Prince was taking drugs. He looked like a classic drug addict during the deathly pale 1994/1995 era. Also his skinniness makes me suspicious. Prince may have been clean living in the 1970s and early/mid 1980s. But look at pictures of him them, he looks healthy and happy, by 1987 he looks washed out and tired all the time, gaunt and skinny. Over time we may learn more of what Prince was doing in his spare time away from Music and sex.

5. My journey with drugs

My hard stance also is because my real father was a junkie all his life high on dope and methamphetamine, he left my mother for drugs and I suspect my mother was using cannabis when I was born. Both of my parents later (Stepfather and Mother), I love them, but they got fired from the Prison service for selling marijuana to inmates and beating them up. I had junkie parents, a junkie brother who at 43 is entirely fucked up. I use NO drugs and do not smoke and hate the fucking things to death. My partner is also similarly anti drugs, and I do not associate with drug users. I drink a bit of wine and that is as far as it goes. i can easily live without it. Yet because I am fat, these junkies give me shit all the time they die in their early 60s at most. I will hopefully live into my 90s.

6. I have aspergers syndrome

We shoot from the lip and often have to suffer the consequences of hastily thought out remarks later.

.

I am not asking for your forgiveness but merely stating the method to my madness

precioux said:

cloveringold85 said:

Well, just as I thought, the unsealing of the search warrants didn't really tell us much more than we already knew. The authorities still haven't found out where the illegal Fentanyl came from that took Prince's life. Also, why aren't these doctor's being held accountable for writing prescriptions using aliases? So, here we are, one year later, and we still don't have any closure. Unfortunately, we will never know what really happened to Prince in his last days. Not looking forward to 4/21/17. It's been an incredibly tough year.

Oh-My-gosh!!! Hey Clover!!! missed you bunches!!! So glad to see you






[Edited 4/19/17 14:56pm]X

herb4 said:

I don't think it's a concidence that the change in Prince's appearance and the sharp turn into the illicit procuring of drugs directly coincides with the DEA rescheduling these medications and cracking down on them. Regular PCP's and GP's refused to prescribe and even the places that do were strictly monitored and regulated. Even pharmacies were unbder the microscope.

But by then, the genie was out of the bottle. The people that really NEEDED the meds were denied them or had to jump through more stringent hoops to get them while the ones that used them for kicks, sold them or unwillingly developed a dependency resorted to other means to obtain them. They've almost single handidly created an entire sub culture of addicts and, worse, in their shortsightedness, gave birth to an incredible spike in heroin use; not to mention the counterfeit racket that arose that ultimately led to what to happened to Prince.

We know that Prince was using pain killers and we know that he had some type of hip issues since 2007 or before.

The problem here is the Fentanyl laced Vicodin pills that were in asprin bottles.

The Warrant said that Prince was getting prescriptions under Kirk and had gotten those pills filled on the 20th. He had bottles of half empty percocets lying around. Where did the Vicodin come from? Was someone stealing his meds and replacing with counterfeit medications?

There are still many unanswered questions here.

Lovejunky said:

PeteSilas said:

I'm not sure, i looked up her profile and it does this little thing where you can't get any info, (I know because i've been banned twice!).

I noticed the same this morning ..I looked for her and her Profile is inactive....

SHe is such a staunch defender of Prince and her words might sometimes bite if you allow ego to come into Play...But she always comes from a space of clear thinking and unemotional analysis.

I hope she comes back soon.

Nope. She's actually muddled and totally overemotional. But some people on here give her a wide berth while others agree with her.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Lovejunky said:

I noticed the same this morning ..I looked for her and her Profile is inactive....

SHe is such a staunch defender of Prince and her words might sometimes bite if you allow ego to come into Play...But she always comes from a space of clear thinking and unemotional analysis.

I hope she comes back soon.

Nope. She's actually muddled and totally overemotional. But some people on here give her a wide berth while others agree with her.

why did you get her banned

PeteSilas said:

moonsister said:

PeteSilas said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

I'm just a new FUCKER here, but maybe she's taking a break. She sounded very angry to the point of risking her health even. Good for her if she's taking care of herself, as too much internet is bad for your health.

oh you fucker you, you did it too didn't you, nasty fucker, (just joking mods). anyway, i don't mind laura, like i said, I used to love it when I knew I could count on her popping up whenever I'd criticize prince, like i said, she'd defend prince if he peed on my head "well, you were right under his weenie" or whatever, it would be my fault. It's ok. I like laura, laura, like you, send me your facebook.