babynoz said:

The original discussion was in regards to *diazepam* that Prince was supposedly taking, and this was found in his tox report-not what was found in the Dr's son's backpack that was never even given to Prince. Ativan can help with seizures and being it was in the Dr's son's backpack, it is normal protocol to administer Ativan if someone is going into seizures due to WITHDRAWAL.

Penny I agree with you up until the family part. I don't think they should feel obligated to respond to "demands" from fans who will never be satisfied. And the whole "why is the family wanting to tarnish by having everyone think he was a drughead?" just doesn't make sense to me, sorry. Whatever other people think about Prince's isn't the family's fault or responsibility -- any more that it was when he was alive. And perhaps they don't come out with a statement about Prince's physical pain is because that isn't true or because they don't know (I'm not exactly sure how close he was to these family members).

-

And Prince's legacy isn't "tarnished" by "everyone" thinking he was a "drughead." "Everyone" doesn't think that way about people struggling with addiction (many people are compassionate, especially with the opioid epidemic touching so many lives). And Prince's legacy was set by his years of groundbreaking work, as it was for other seminal artists who succombed to substance issues, such as Elvis, Janis Joplin, Billie Holiday, and so many others.

PennyPurple said:

PeteSilas said:

brother or sister, i'm not into conspiracy theories, i don't think michael was murdered, i do know that Elvis' death was attempted to be covered up as just a heart attack when everyone in his inner circle knew goddamn good and well he was abusing drugs for years, they tried and they failed because his fans, unlike prince fans, would not have that shit. they wanted and demanded the truth and they got it. In liberace's case, i don't believe the fans had anything to do with it, the coroner in his county wanted the media attention and he was willing to sacrifice liberace's public image to do it, leading to an embarrasing and obviously contemptuous obituary report. I don't want conspiracy, i want the truth, even if prince wouldn't have wanted it, elvis probably didn't want us knowing about his issue either but it's that kind of shame that ruins lives.

I don't think Michael was murdered either, Michael was so tolerant to that crap that he needed more and more of it until it overdosed him.

.

Elvis was drugs, he may have died from a heart attack on the stool, but that's because his heart stopped working from the OD.

.

Prince died from an accidental OD, nobody ever knows what is cut into those darn street drugs. I believe that he eventually would've went to rehab.

.

Prince fans are demanding the truth, so why aren't we getting it? Why is the family wanting to tarnish Prince's legacy by having everyone think he was a drughead? Wish they'd come out and just say, he was in pain and got hooked on the darn drug and let's work together against big pharma so this doesn't happen again. That's all it would take.

I hear you about things like Liberace's death, but in Prince's case, what is the shameful secret that people such as the medical examiner are conspiring to hide by lying that he died of a accidental fentanyl OD? That he really died of AIDS? Cancer? I'm having trouble seeing what you're implying, help me out...

PeteSilas said:

disch said:

I don't "want to squash it." Believe it or not, I'm not part of some conspiracy here. I just think that people who obsess over conspiracy theories end up harming themselves. Because it never ends and there is no acceptance. I just don't buy the idea that every "expert," such as the medical examiner, is either completely inept at her job, or a consirator. Who benefits from these conspiracy theories, anyway? Not Prince; he's still dead.

brother or sister, i'm not into conspiracy theories, i don't think michael was murdered, i do know that Elvis' death was attempted to be covered up as just a heart attack when everyone in his inner circle knew goddamn good and well he was abusing drugs for years, they tried and they failed because his fans, unlike prince fans, would not have that shit. they wanted and demanded the truth and they got it. In liberace's case, i don't believe the fans had anything to do with it, the coroner in his county wanted the media attention and he was willing to sacrifice liberace's public image to do it, leading to an embarrasing and obviously contemptuous obituary report. I don't want conspiracy, i want the truth, even if prince wouldn't have wanted it, elvis probably didn't want us knowing about his issue either but it's that kind of shame that ruins lives.

PennyPurple said:

No, Penny- KJ has not been interviewed since 4/21/16

PeteSilas said:

2004Fan said:

fortuneandserendipity said: I was leaning along those lines myself too up until last Monday. I don't see P doing this voluntarily because of all those bottles lying around. I don't think P would have wanted everybody to know he was addicted to pain pills. He would have gotten rid of almost all of them before ingesting the last one (s) IMHO.

that's the other thing that gets me, so many people say things like "i'll never reveal what I know" so whatever is being concealed, is it worse than being a drug addict? What is the big secret? That's what made me wonder if he had AIDS and just committed suicide rather than die a slow death where he absolutely has no control at all. Just people seem to be ashamed for him (not that aids should be something to be ashamed of).

Maybe they are just covering their own back.

disch said:

Penny I agree with you up until the family part. I don't think they should feel obligated to respond to "demands" from fans who will never be satisfied. And the whole "why is the family wanting to tarnish by having everyone think he was a drughead?" just doesn't make sense to me, sorry. Whatever other people think about Prince's isn't the family's fault or responsibility -- any more that it was when he was alive. And perhaps they don't come out with a statement about Prince's physical pain is because that isn't true or because they don't know (I'm not exactly sure how close he was to these family members).

-

And Prince's legacy isn't "tarnished" by "everyone" thinking he was a "drughead." "Everyone" doesn't think that way about people struggling with addiction (many people are compassionate, especially with the opioid epidemic touching so many lives). And Prince's legacy was set by his years of groundbreaking work, as it was for other seminal artists who succombed to substance issues, such as Elvis, Janis Joplin, Billie Holiday, and so many others.

PennyPurple said:

I don't think Michael was murdered either, Michael was so tolerant to that crap that he needed more and more of it until it overdosed him.

.

Elvis was drugs, he may have died from a heart attack on the stool, but that's because his heart stopped working from the OD.

.

Prince died from an accidental OD, nobody ever knows what is cut into those darn street drugs. I believe that he eventually would've went to rehab.

.

Prince fans are demanding the truth, so why aren't we getting it? Why is the family wanting to tarnish Prince's legacy by having everyone think he was a drughead? Wish they'd come out and just say, he was in pain and got hooked on the darn drug and let's work together against big pharma so this doesn't happen again. That's all it would take.

Thank you for this, disch! And thank you for your very thoughtful response to my earlier comment. Your description of a discussion re: stigma was amazing. There is no question that people lose their lives to stigma. And I strongly suspect that, overall, stigma fuels addiction, so those "repulsed" by addiction and wanting more stigma are shooting themselves in the foot.

Penny made a great place for thoughtful, respectful discussion in the book club. I got really busy, so wasn't commenting much beyond first two chapters, but that thread is great. Thank you, Penny! Sorry for off-topic swing.

[Edited 4/18/17 20:00pm]

rednblue said:

Thank you for this, disch! And thank you for your very thoughtful response to my earlier comment. Your description of a discussion re: stigma was amazing. There is no question that people lose their lives to stigma. And I strongly suspect that, overall, stigma fuels addiction, so those "repulsed" by addiction and wanting more stigma were shooting themselves in the foot.

Penny made a great place for thoughtful, respectful discussion in the book club. I got really busy, so wasn't commenting much beyond first two chapters, but that thread is great. Thank you, Penny! Sorry for off-topic swing.

Thank you Rednblue!

moonsister said:

This may be a repeat but on the 14th Prince actually OD'd on the same oxy Kirk was prescribed THAT VERY DAY. That is why Kirk is thanking his lucky stars that Prince didn't die that night, or Kirk could be in serious trouble as could the doctor ( unless Kirk were to say Prince stole Kirk's drugs, but the dr has already ADMITTED the oxy was meant for Prince, even though the scrip was in Kirk's name). And as for 1 or 2 pain pills that night? No way, I'd bet 5 or 6, easy.

We dont know whether Prince OD on the plane with the pills from Dr. S.

It could very well be the fentanyl pills.

It would explain the 1 or 2 pills.

purplegirl00 said:

I would also add his son's death to go with David Bowie, Denise Matthews, and Kim Upsher. I realize that Amiir died 20 yrs ago, but Amiir was his only child.

disch said:

There are so many sad and haunting things about Prince's death. Why invent even more sad and haunting things? Prince didn't commit suicide. The medical examiner made that determination back in June. Why not accept that and move on from that?

-

And as for the idea he had AIDS, cancer, etc.: Keep in mind that the warrants said Prince had no prescriptions in his name, no regular doctor, and nearly all his drugs were black-market opioids. Does any of that make sense for person who's been diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness?

-

I'm not trying to rehash a debate about suicide, disease, etc. I'm just curious why -- when there are so many mysteries and tragic aspects to Prince's death -- people want to torture themselves speculating about even MORE tragic scenarios. It's almost like people WANT to find reasons to make themselves crazy over this.

He could have been treating outside of the US

disch said:

Penny I agree with you up until the family part. I don't think they should feel obligated to respond to "demands" from fans who will never be satisfied. And the whole "why is the family wanting to tarnish by having everyone think he was a drughead?" just doesn't make sense to me, sorry. Whatever other people think about Prince's isn't the family's fault or responsibility -- any more that it was when he was alive. And perhaps they don't come out with a statement about Prince's physical pain is because that isn't true or because they don't know (I'm not exactly sure how close he was to these family members).

-

And Prince's legacy isn't "tarnished" by "everyone" thinking he was a "drughead." "Everyone" doesn't think that way about people struggling with addiction (many people are compassionate, especially with the opioid epidemic touching so many lives). And Prince's legacy was set by his years of groundbreaking work, as it was for other seminal artists who succombed to substance issues, such as Elvis, Janis Joplin, Billie Holiday, and so many others.

PennyPurple said:

I don't think Michael was murdered either, Michael was so tolerant to that crap that he needed more and more of it until it overdosed him.

.

Elvis was drugs, he may have died from a heart attack on the stool, but that's because his heart stopped working from the OD.

.

Prince died from an accidental OD, nobody ever knows what is cut into those darn street drugs. I believe that he eventually would've went to rehab.

.

Prince fans are demanding the truth, so why aren't we getting it? Why is the family wanting to tarnish Prince's legacy by having everyone think he was a drughead? Wish they'd come out and just say, he was in pain and got hooked on the darn drug and let's work together against big pharma so this doesn't happen again. That's all it would take.

Believe me I don't think anything would tarnish his legacy, especially for people in my age group who was into Prince since 1981. You're right the family doesn't owe us fans anything. It is wishful thinking that they would come out against Big Pharma.

.

I posted what happened to my husband earlier in this thread. Big Pharma knew that this stuff was very highly addicting. And they pushed it as a miracle drug. And trust me, it was a miracle drug for my husband, until the fact that in order to control the pain, he had to keep going up to higher doses. My husband wakes up from a dead sleep, screaming in pain, it never goes away 24/7. It took 4 years to wean him off this crap. I don't consider my husband as a drug addict. Prince had to have had pain, but lo and behold, when the epidemic started with this drug that people started dying, they clamped down, and made it almost impossible for people like my husband to obtain it. Thankfully we finally got a good Dr. in pain management who told us, the drug has stopped working and when he gets off the stuff, his pain will not be any worse then it was taking the drug. The tolerance had built up that the miracle drug stopped working. You have to work closely with the Drs to wean yourself off, you can't do it cold turkey like Prince tried to do.

.

It is heartbreaking that the greatest musician in my life had to lose his life over this crap that was pushed by big pharma. In fact it pisses me off that everyday people are dealing with the same situation.

.

My kids grew up listening to Prince. I already have some Prince songs picked out to be played at my funeral. When i'm blessed enough to have some grandbabies (if my kids would ever get on the ball) LOL they will hear Prince songs over to their grandma's house. That is how I will keep his legacy alive.

[Edited 4/18/17 20:20pm]

Did anyone else read the CNBC article from yesterday in regards to Dr.S? It states that he is still practicing with no disciplinary or corrective actions taken against him, and that this has not happened because NO ONE HAS FILED A COMPLAINT against him. I find this hard to believe- if said Dr. stated in an affidavit that he "prescribed oxy to Prince under KJ's name in order to protect his privacy"- then on that same day Prince od'd and almost died because of this??? If that was my family member, you can bet your sweet azz that not only would I have "filed a complaint", I would've filed charges as well as a suit against him. What gives? Thoughts?

Http://www.cnbc.com/2017/...ction.html
[Edited 4/18/17 20:38pm]

precioux said:

Did anyone else read the CNBC article from yesterday in regards to Dr.S? It states that he is still practicing with no disciplinary or corrective actions taken against him, and that this has not happened because NO ONE HAS FILED A COMPLAINT against him. I find this hard to believe- if said Dr. stated in an affidavit that he "prescribed oxy to Prince under KJ's name in order to protect his privacy"- then on that same day Prince od'd and almost died because of this??? If that was my family member, you can bet your sweet azz that not only would I have "filed a complaint", I wouldn've filed charges as well as a suit against him. What gives? Thoughts? Http://www.cnbc.com/2017/...ction.html

And then the Dr put out the statement that he never wrote a script for Prince using KJ's name. Someone lied on those warrants.

.

by the way, check your org notes.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Wasn't it stated in the warrants that P od'd on the plane from oxycodone? Or are you saying that it's a possibility that the oxycodone P took on the 14th may not have been directly from Dr.S? Unless I read the warrant wrong, the od was due to oxycodone, not fentanyl-please point me in the right direction if I read the warrant incorrectly
[Edited 4/18/17 20:34pm]

PennyPurple said:

Or do you think the Dr. is lying to do "damage control"? Isn't it against the law to lie on a sworn affidavit, if that is what his statement is in the warrant? Who/why do you think someone lied in the warrant? I'm confused on this one

disch said:

I hear you about things like Liberace's death, but in Prince's case, what is the shameful secret that people such as the medical examiner are conspiring to hide by lying that he died of a accidental fentanyl OD? That he really died of AIDS? Cancer? I'm having trouble seeing what you're implying, help me out...

PeteSilas said:

brother or sister, i'm not into conspiracy theories, i don't think michael was murdered, i do know that Elvis' death was attempted to be covered up as just a heart attack when everyone in his inner circle knew goddamn good and well he was abusing drugs for years, they tried and they failed because his fans, unlike prince fans, would not have that shit. they wanted and demanded the truth and they got it. In liberace's case, i don't believe the fans had anything to do with it, the coroner in his county wanted the media attention and he was willing to sacrifice liberace's public image to do it, leading to an embarrasing and obviously contemptuous obituary report. I don't want conspiracy, i want the truth, even if prince wouldn't have wanted it, elvis probably didn't want us knowing about his issue either but it's that kind of shame that ruins lives.

that's what i'm wondering, what is it that makes people say "i'll take it to my grave" that's a serious type of statement. I mean I get people respect his privacy but most of those same people have already either written books or given interviews that painted P in an unflattering light. What is it that needs to be hidden. Maybe it's just Prince being Prince, charlie murphy died last week and he kept his sickness a secret too but I just believe things have a way of getting out.

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

And then the Dr put out the statement that he never wrote a script for Prince using KJ's name. Someone lied on those warrants.

.

by the way, check your org notes.

Or do you think the Dr. is lying to do "damage control"? Isn't it against the law to lie on a sworn affidavit, if that is what his statement is in the warrant? Who/why do you think someone lied in the warrant? I'm confused on this one

i'm sure they have enough to send both the doc and kirky up, it's their decision and I think they'll do it eventually.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

.
I have been wondering that same thing.
Fentanyl leaves the body in 3-4 days, so unless he was blood tested in Moline, it wouldn't show up on Dr S's tests taken on April 20th.
.
In any case, this death was caused by a bad batch of illicit drugs.
.

precioux said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

We dont know whether Prince OD on the plane with the pills from Dr. S.

It could very well be the fentanyl pills.

It would explain the 1 or 2 pills.

Wasn't it stated in the warrants that P od'd on the plane from oxycodone? Or are you saying that it's a possibility that the oxycodone P took on the 14th may not have been directly from Dr.S? Unless I read the warrant wrong, the od was due to oxycodone, not fentanyl-please point me in the right direction if I read the warrant incorrectly [Edited 4/18/17 20:34pm]

I didnt see a search warrant for the medical records from Moline which is strange.

So I dont think the search warrants had verification of whether it was oxy or fentanyl.

It is also strange that no search warrant has been issued since September 2016.

he's not going to be forgotten that's for sure, and really, people will always be people and some are just going to talk shit about anyone no matter what. Just the other day I was talking about Prince to one of my customers, not a fan, she just said "he was wierd" nothing about him being an addict just "he was wierd". cannot please everyone.

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

Penny I agree with you up until the family part. I don't think they should feel obligated to respond to "demands" from fans who will never be satisfied. And the whole "why is the family wanting to tarnish by having everyone think he was a drughead?" just doesn't make sense to me, sorry. Whatever other people think about Prince's isn't the family's fault or responsibility -- any more that it was when he was alive. And perhaps they don't come out with a statement about Prince's physical pain is because that isn't true or because they don't know (I'm not exactly sure how close he was to these family members).

-

And Prince's legacy isn't "tarnished" by "everyone" thinking he was a "drughead." "Everyone" doesn't think that way about people struggling with addiction (many people are compassionate, especially with the opioid epidemic touching so many lives). And Prince's legacy was set by his years of groundbreaking work, as it was for other seminal artists who succombed to substance issues, such as Elvis, Janis Joplin, Billie Holiday, and so many others.

Believe me I don't think anything would tarnish his legacy, especially for people in my age group who was into Prince since 1981. You're right the family doesn't owe us fans anything. It is wishful thinking that they would come out against Big Pharma.

.

I posted what happened to my husband earlier in this thread. Big Pharma knew that this stuff was very highly addicting. And they pushed it as a miracle drug. And trust me, it was a miracle drug for my husband, until the fact that in order to control the pain, he had to keep going up to higher doses. My husband wakes up from a dead sleep, screaming in pain, it never goes away 24/7. It took 4 years to wean him off this crap. I don't consider my husband as a drug addict. Prince had to have had pain, but lo and behold, when the epidemic started with this drug that people started dying, they clamped down, and made it almost impossible for people like my husband to obtain it. Thankfully we finally got a good Dr. in pain management who told us, the drug has stopped working and when he gets off the stuff, his pain will not be any worse then it was taking the drug. The tolerance had built up that the miracle drug stopped working. You have to work closely with the Drs to wean yourself off, you can't do it cold turkey like Prince tried to do.

.

It is heartbreaking that the greatest musician in my life had to lose his life over this crap that was pushed by big pharma. In fact it pisses me off that everyday people are dealing with the same situation.

.

My kids grew up listening to Prince. I already have some Prince songs picked out to be played at my funeral. When i'm blessed enough to have some grandbabies (if my kids would ever get on the ball) LOL they will hear Prince songs over to their grandma's house. That is how I will keep his legacy alive.

[Edited 4/18/17 20:20pm]

PennyPurple said:

.
No.
Dr S made a very nuanced statement saying that he didn't write a prescription to KJ that was intended for Prince.
.
You have to read these attorney driven statements carefully.
I think Dr S initial statement that he did so will turn out true.
.

precioux said:

The Narcan he got on the 14th is used to treat opioid overdoses so even though oxy and fentanyl are both opioids I am convinced he took the oxy only, because 2 of those fentanyl pills were enough poison to kill about 3 horses, and I doubt that Prince would have survived, he would have been dead before they sat down to eat. As for thinking the oxy is the very scrip Kirk was given by Dr S that day? For me there is enough evidence to support that theory, although it is circumstantial, but as long as there is no concrete evidence (even though in one warrant Dr S admitted the oxy was meant for Prince) both the bumbs will walk, especially since it isn't this oxy that killed Prince.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

.
But then he'd have had a regular doctor.
The man was in romantic, sexual relationships all of his life.
There is such a thing as an AIDS registry.
He was a senior citizen (younger than I am) whose small-boned body was attacked by almost 40 years of strenuous performances.
.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

.
IMPORTANT point:
The search warrants unsealed on 4/17 are only CARVER COUNTY.
.
We do not know how many federal warrants have been issued, what other countries are involved or if a grand jury is impaneled.
.

moonsister said:

Actually if Prince had died that night they both might have been cleared, Kirk could say Prince stole Kirk's oxy that Kirk had a legitimate scrip for. Life is cheap and I'm outa here.

precioux said:

.
No one will be charged for lying on an affidavit. Those are used to catch people changing their story.
.
Remember when Michael Jackson's ex-wife lied on the stand after giving sworn depositions AGAINST MJ to DA Sneddon. One reason there was a trial was due to her initial statements.
Nothing was done to her.
.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

He could have been treating outside of the US

Yes, the best way to maintain his privacy for any conditions/treatments he had.

petalthecat said:

But again we forget they were all covering for him all in varying degrees. His privacy and health etc...wanting all of this out of the public eye was the real reason. Fact is that many celebs go to rehab etc..and it's not known. Prince may have been fearful of it, thought he could kick it himself, maybe was lieing to everyone too. The people that knew something was up was not just Kirk and Judith I think as this goes on we will find that A lot of others knew of his issues.

We don't really know how much fentanyl was in each of those counterfeit pills -- or if they all contained the same amount. I personally think it's likely that he ODed on the plane on fentanyl-tainted pills, simply because it seems unlikely to me that he ODed twice in a week but on completely different opioids (plus, if the 1 - 2 pills thing is true, I don't think 1 - 2 prescription oxys would cause the life-threatening OD that he apparently experienced)

moonsister said:

precioux said:

Wasn't it stated in the warrants that P od'd on the plane from oxycodone? Or are you saying that it's a possibility that the oxycodone P took on the 14th may not have been directly from Dr.S? Unless I read the warrant wrong, the od was due to oxycodone, not fentanyl-please point me in the right direction if I read the warrant incorrectly [Edited 4/18/17 20:34pm]

The Narcan he got on the 14th is used to treat opioid overdoses so even though oxy and fentanyl are both opioids I am convinced he took the oxy only, because 2 of those fentanyl pills were enough poison to kill about 3 horses, and I doubt that Prince would have survived, he would have been dead before they sat down to eat. As for thinking the oxy is the very scrip Kirk was given by Dr S that day? For me there is enough evidence to support that theory, although it is circumstantial, but as long as there is no concrete evidence (even though in one warrant Dr S admitted the oxy was meant for Prince) both the bumbs will walk, especially since it isn't this oxy that killed Prince.

he could, but the warrants didn't find any drugs in his house other than opioids via Kirk and black-market sources. Even if he had a doctor elsewhere for a serious condition, he surely would have had medications for the condition at his home, it seems.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

disch said:

There are so many sad and haunting things about Prince's death. Why invent even more sad and haunting things? Prince didn't commit suicide. The medical examiner made that determination back in June. Why not accept that and move on from that?

-

And as for the idea he had AIDS, cancer, etc.: Keep in mind that the warrants said Prince had no prescriptions in his name, no regular doctor, and nearly all his drugs were black-market opioids. Does any of that make sense for person who's been diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness?

-

I'm not trying to rehash a debate about suicide, disease, etc. I'm just curious why -- when there are so many mysteries and tragic aspects to Prince's death -- people want to torture themselves speculating about even MORE tragic scenarios. It's almost like people WANT to find reasons to make themselves crazy over this.

He could have been treating outside of the US