ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

moonsister said:

This may be a repeat but on the 14th Prince actually OD'd on the same oxy Kirk was prescribed THAT VERY DAY. That is why Kirk is thanking his lucky stars that Prince didn't die that night, or Kirk could be in serious trouble as could the doctor ( unless Kirk were to say Prince stole Kirk's drugs, but the dr has already ADMITTED the oxy was meant for Prince, even though the scrip was in Kirk's name). And as for 1 or 2 pain pills that night? No way, I'd bet 5 or 6, easy.

We dont know whether Prince OD on the plane with the pills from Dr. S.

It could very well be the fentanyl pills.

It would explain the 1 or 2 pills.

Wow. This whole thread is crazy making .... There is no way one can say that P ingested any of the pills from the prescription from Dr. S that day ... No one knows what he took - possibly not even the doctors in Moline, as they may not have tested for Fentanyl. It is simply unclear.

Now, we have people suggesting that he wolfed down 5 or 6 pills?

Earlier official reports indicate that there were no indications of P doctor shopping recently. Also, he was reported to have had hip surgery out of the country by people who knew him fairly well. Many reports have surfaced about cobalt/chromium issues with hip surgery/implants lately. Would it not make sense for P to have returned to the same doctors he had seen earlier if he had complications? Not sure here - chelation therapy for these issues would not necessarily leave evidence via prescription bottles laying around? Nor would the suggestion of moderatly elevated liver enzymes (from Tylenol) over time. Possibly P had been given news that unless things changed, he was not on a good trajectory? This news could have come with either of the visits within the past years as a CBC is pretty standard for emergency care. 65k in medical expenses seems to suggest more than just dehydration. Not sure, but that is only within one year? It does seem like something more was going on.

I have read many posts about how P could have been obtaining substances knowing that the issue of fentanyl laced pills (along with the other synthetic - forget the name) was becoming more of a problem- How could he not have known? Perhaps the attempts to obtain oxy without tylenol (and there was a script for that - without tylenol, correct?) was a last ditch effort to avoid a dangerous supply in order to make it to rehab. I am wondering about the descriptions of pills found - some xx 1/2 and xx 1/4 of a pill. Clearly, he or someone was cutting these pills to either drastically cut down or to avoid ingesting too much of a questionable substance. Not sure, but how much potency would a normal Watson have? Why would there be numerous pills cut into such small doses? Maybe P knew - maybe he was trying to be safe until rehab and he happened upon a poorly mixed section of pill. Perhaps the pure oxy was gone? Why would someone risk doctor shopping or exposing someone they care about to get a substance illegally when they were pretty well stocked (as rehab was imminent, it seems).

A lot of questions, but there do not appear to be any answers. I do believe that P was dealing with issues other than dependence. I am not dismissing dependence or addiction. I have a niece who has been in rehab at least 6 times for opioids and she is not even 25. I fear for her. I see it on the nws every day. She also is a good person, from a family of functional alcoholics. We also are good people. It's not a moral thing.

Sorry for all the conjecture. But, that seems to be all we have. There is no way to prove any theory or intent. I guess I will come back in a few days to see the attacks, misinformation, and wild speculation.

Sorry for the rambling ... gotta be up for work in 3 ....

Oh, and peace be with you all

Pans

[Edited 4/18/17 22:25pm]

moonsister said:

Maybe he was just cheating on his taxes with fake medical expenses.

I appreciate the levity! P really did not like paying taxes ...

Now, who wants to do those calculations?

Not me, my early alarm has just gone off ....

Why don't y'all take a break and listen to "Deliverance."

purplethunder3121 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Why don't y'all take a break and listen to "Deliverance."

HaHa - just downloaded. You all are gonna make me late for work!

But thank you - this thread was getting WAY too serious. Some new P music sounds just about right.

Pans

purplethunder3121 said:

Why don't y'all take a break and listen to "Deliverance."

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I didnt see a search warrant for the medical records from Moline which is strange.

So I dont think the search warrants had verification of whether it was oxy or fentanyl.

It is also strange that no search warrant has been issued since September 2016.

"Any documents that are filed under seal will be posted if and when they are made publicly accessible".

This statement at the top of the investigation page implies that there may be other info not available to us at this time....maybe there are other search warrants they don't want us to see just yet?

disch said:

disch said:

We don't really know how much fentanyl was in each of those counterfeit pills -- or if they all contained the same amount. I personally think it's likely that he ODed on the plane on fentanyl-tainted pills, simply because it seems unlikely to me that he ODed twice in a week but on completely different opioids (plus, if the 1 - 2 pills thing is true, I don't think 1 - 2 prescription oxys would cause the life-threatening OD that he apparently experienced)

moonsister said:

precioux said: The Narcan he got on the 14th is used to treat opioid overdoses so even though oxy and fentanyl are both opioids I am convinced he took the oxy only, because 2 of those fentanyl pills were enough poison to kill about 3 horses, and I doubt that Prince would have survived, he would have been dead before they sat down to eat. As for thinking the oxy is the very scrip Kirk was given by Dr S that day? For me there is enough evidence to support that theory, although it is circumstantial, but as long as there is no concrete evidence (even though in one warrant Dr S admitted the oxy was meant for Prince) both the bumbs will walk, especially since it isn't this oxy that killed Prince.

I personally think that as well and that's really what bothers me about this whole mess. And there's the fact that he was supposedly so sick from "the flu", the week prior to the plane incident that he canceled 2 shows. It's just all entirely too damn coincidental.

Looks like from the documents, some of those drugs were not prescription and its sad they ahve proven that Prince was essentially a pill popping junkie.

.

Part of me is annoyed that he was a hypocrite, preaching about clean living and the whole time being a junkie. The junkie rock star stereotype has been done to death.

.

My love for his musical legacy and talent is untouched, but my opinion of him as a person has dropped severely, you can dress it up and blame Dr Feelgood and everything else, but when they say the Moline landing was because he fucking Oded!!!!

purplethunder3121 said:

Why don't y'all take a break and listen to "Deliverance."

I tried. It just didn't help.

I think some people find that Prince dying from a disease is LESS tragic than him dying from from drug addiction.

disch said:

There are so many sad and haunting things about Prince's death. Why invent even more sad and haunting things? Prince didn't commit suicide. The medical examiner made that determination back in June. Why not accept that and move on from that?

-

And as for the idea he had AIDS, cancer, etc.: Keep in mind that the warrants said Prince had no prescriptions in his name, no regular doctor, and nearly all his drugs were black-market opioids. Does any of that make sense for person who's been diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness?

-

I'm not trying to rehash a debate about suicide, disease, etc. I'm just curious why -- when there are so many mysteries and tragic aspects to Prince's death -- people want to torture themselves speculating about even MORE tragic scenarios. It's almost like people WANT to find reasons to make themselves crazy over this.

Adorecream said:

Looks like from the documents, some of those drugs were not prescription and its sad they ahve proven that Prince was essentially a pill popping junkie.

.

Part of me is annoyed that he was a hypocrite, preaching about clean living and the whole time being a junkie. The junkie rock star stereotype has been done to death.

.

My love for his musical legacy and talent is untouched, but my opinion of him as a person has dropped severely, you can dress it up and blame Dr Feelgood and everything else, but when they say the Moline landing was because he fucking Oded!!!!

This is likely why he kept it a secret. And why it ultimately ended up killing him. And probably why the family won't release any statement. The lack of compassion and understanding is overwhelming...

paulludvig said:

I think some people find that Prince dying from a disease is LESS tragic than him dying from from drug addiction.

disch said:

There are so many sad and haunting things about Prince's death. Why invent even more sad and haunting things? Prince didn't commit suicide. The medical examiner made that determination back in June. Why not accept that and move on from that?

-

And as for the idea he had AIDS, cancer, etc.: Keep in mind that the warrants said Prince had no prescriptions in his name, no regular doctor, and nearly all his drugs were black-market opioids. Does any of that make sense for person who's been diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness?

-

I'm not trying to rehash a debate about suicide, disease, etc. I'm just curious why -- when there are so many mysteries and tragic aspects to Prince's death -- people want to torture themselves speculating about even MORE tragic scenarios. It's almost like people WANT to find reasons to make themselves crazy over this.

Strange, really... Like addiction is not an ilness. Like the man wanted to be addicted, when all he really wanted to do was to be able to perform and write music.

[Edited 4/19/17 2:22am]

moonsister said:

disch said:

We don't really know how much fentanyl was in each of those counterfeit pills -- or if they all contained the same amount. I personally think it's likely that he ODed on the plane on fentanyl-tainted pills, simply because it seems unlikely to me that he ODed twice in a week but on completely different opioids (plus, if the 1 - 2 pills thing is true, I don't think 1 - 2 prescription oxys would cause the life-threatening OD that he apparently experienced)

They did test one of the fentanyl laced pills found at PP and found enough fentanyl in it to kill two big men, but you are right the pills could contain different amounts, but do you also think he would have swallowed questionable pills that night when he had female company, when Kirk had a brand new safe from the pharmacy bunch of oxy? I don't, sorry.

The thing about that is the questionable pills for all intents and purposes, look exactly like the real ones. And that's all I'm going to say on that.

Adorecream said:

That song

Rumoured to be in the Vault..

You all know that one !

"S p e c u l a t i o n"

disch said:

We don't really know how much fentanyl was in each of those counterfeit pills -- or if they all contained the same amount. I personally think it's likely that he ODed on the plane on fentanyl-tainted pills, simply because it seems unlikely to me that he ODed twice in a week but on completely different opioids (plus, if the 1 - 2 pills thing is true, I don't think 1 - 2 prescription oxys would cause the life-threatening OD that he apparently experienced)

moonsister said:

precioux said: The Narcan he got on the 14th is used to treat opioid overdoses so even though oxy and fentanyl are both opioids I am convinced he took the oxy only, because 2 of those fentanyl pills were enough poison to kill about 3 horses, and I doubt that Prince would have survived, he would have been dead before they sat down to eat. As for thinking the oxy is the very scrip Kirk was given by Dr S that day? For me there is enough evidence to support that theory, although it is circumstantial, but as long as there is no concrete evidence (even though in one warrant Dr S admitted the oxy was meant for Prince) both the bumbs will walk, especially since it isn't this oxy that killed Prince.

If that's the case, the fact that he took another one of the same pills, when he knew that this time there would be nobody to rush him off to hospital or give him a save shot, to me means one of two things: he was either absolutely desperate for relief (so was seriously addicted) OR he just didn't care any more / it was deliberate - either suicide or a 'leave it in God's hands' kind of thing.

Adorecream said:

Looks like from the documents, some of those drugs were not prescription and its sad they ahve proven that Prince was essentially a pill popping junkie.

.

Part of me is annoyed that he was a hypocrite, preaching about clean living and the whole time being a junkie. The junkie rock star stereotype has been done to death.

.

My love for his musical legacy and talent is untouched, but my opinion of him as a person has dropped severely, you can dress it up and blame Dr Feelgood and everything else, but when they say the Moline landing was because he fucking Oded!!!!

Adorecream -- allow for the possibility that some of those bottles of pills may have been planted to create the impression that P was a drug addict. Placing bottles of pills in several locations in PP is not consistent with P's meticulous nature. If he was hiding an addiction, placing bottles of pills in places where they could have been found was not a very smart thing to do.

If P had severe pain and was using pain medication to manage his pain condition, I see nothing wrong with that. The issue is determining where all the pills that were placed around PP came from. It seems extremely contrived to me and fits into my theory that the pills were planted.

Referring to P as a junkie is very disrespectful and says more about you than it says about him.

Dibblekins said:

Dibblekins said:

disch said:

We don't really know how much fentanyl was in each of those counterfeit pills -- or if they all contained the same amount. I personally think it's likely that he ODed on the plane on fentanyl-tainted pills, simply because it seems unlikely to me that he ODed twice in a week but on completely different opioids (plus, if the 1 - 2 pills thing is true, I don't think 1 - 2 prescription oxys would cause the life-threatening OD that he apparently experienced)

If that's the case, the fact that he took another one of the same pills, when he knew that this time there would be nobody to rush him off to hospital or give him a save shot, to me means one of two things: he was either absolutely desperate for relief (so was seriously addicted) OR he just didn't care any more / it was deliberate - either suicide or a 'leave it in God's hands' kind of thing.

They were not the same pills though. The pill(s) from the plane incident were supposed to be Percocet(Acetaminophen+Oxycodone). The fatal pill(s) were supposed to be Vicodin(Acetaminophen+Hydrocodone) but contained Fentanyl. I truly do not believe that Prince was trying to kill himself.

bibrose said:

Adorecream said:

Looks like from the documents, some of those drugs were not prescription and its sad they ahve proven that Prince was essentially a pill popping junkie.

.

Part of me is annoyed that he was a hypocrite, preaching about clean living and the whole time being a junkie. The junkie rock star stereotype has been done to death.

.

My love for his musical legacy and talent is untouched, but my opinion of him as a person has dropped severely, you can dress it up and blame Dr Feelgood and everything else, but when they say the Moline landing was because he fucking Oded!!!!

Adorecream -- allow for the possibility that some of those bottles of pills may have been planted to create the impression that P was a drug addict. Placing bottles of pills in several locations in PP is not consistent with P's meticulous nature. If he was hiding an addiction, placing bottles of pills in places where they could have been found was not a very smart thing to do.

If P had severe pain and was using pain medication to manage his pain condition, I see nothing wrong with that. The issue is determining where all the pills that were placed around PP came from. It seems extremely contrived to me and fits into my theory that the pills were planted.

Referring to P as a junkie is very disrespectful and says more about you than it says about him.

Junkie is a slur. Drug addiction is a medical illness, and a person is not a bad person because of being a drug addict, i.e. addicted to a drug.

All manner of people become addicted to drugs, including some of the hardest working, kindest people out there.

Stigma and slurs need to be combated. They kill people, and I think it's very likely stigma and slurs contributed to Prince's death.

That makes me very angry. If Prince bought into the stigma, he wasn't doing himself any favors. Yet it's hardest of all for the people suffering from addiction to ignore the stigma nonsense.

It's not rocket science that drug addiction is an illness deserving compassion.

Prince died from a medical illness. It is so disrespectful to stigmatize it.

Stigmatizing takes energy and focus away from celebrating Prince's music, art and philanthropy. Listening to Prince is the best part of my day. I'm sure that's true for a lot of people here. So please don't engage in stigmatizing and denial. Those things probably killed Prince.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

precioux said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Wasn't it stated in the warrants that P od'd on the plane from oxycodone? Or are you saying that it's a possibility that the oxycodone P took on the 14th may not have been directly from Dr.S? Unless I read the warrant wrong, the od was due to oxycodone, not fentanyl-please point me in the right direction if I read the warrant incorrectly [Edited 4/18/17 20:34pm]

I didnt see a search warrant for the medical records from Moline which is strange.

So I dont think the search warrants had verification of whether it was oxy or fentanyl.

It is also strange that no search warrant has been issued since September 2016.

I thought I seen that warrant. Let me do some checking. NO that was for the hospital or dr's office in MN.

[Edited 4/19/17 4:46am]

bibrose said:

Adorecream said:

Looks like from the documents, some of those drugs were not prescription and its sad they ahve proven that Prince was essentially a pill popping junkie.

.

Part of me is annoyed that he was a hypocrite, preaching about clean living and the whole time being a junkie. The junkie rock star stereotype has been done to death.

.

My love for his musical legacy and talent is untouched, but my opinion of him as a person has dropped severely, you can dress it up and blame Dr Feelgood and everything else, but when they say the Moline landing was because he fucking Oded!!!!

Adorecream -- allow for the possibility that some of those bottles of pills may have been planted to create the impression that P was a drug addict. Placing bottles of pills in several locations in PP is not consistent with P's meticulous nature. If he was hiding an addiction, placing bottles of pills in places where they could have been found was not a very smart thing to do.

If P had severe pain and was using pain medication to manage his pain condition, I see nothing wrong with that. The issue is determining where all the pills that were placed around PP came from. It seems extremely contrived to me and fits into my theory that the pills were planted.

Referring to P as a junkie is very disrespectful and says more about you than it says about him.

Sorry, but I am vey anti drugs and given all his holier than thou preaching against the dangers of drugs this seems hypocritical. I don't think the drugs were planted or for anyone else. Prince was doing these on the sly, getting as many drugs as he could under fako names. these Kornbergs or whoever the heck they are were Dr Feelgoods, enablers just like Klein and Murray were to MJ.

.

Sorry I have no Toleration of drug addicts. Prince lied to us, that will go down in the record, especially as I defended him against friends of mine convinced he was another druggie rock star who died of a drug overdose, which is essentially what happened.

.

He was a relcuse and a hermit by the end, living his decrepit and falling down dated 80s mausoleum to himself, his last days must have been sad and painful. In that way I feel sorry for him and still love him. I am still a hardcore fan, but at the same time I just can not condone drug abuse. It just really shocked me when I read those reports released by the Minnesota whatever authority and the Reelz movie that showed him as some bizarre recluse living in the haunted gallows of Paisley Park.

.

I never loved Prince the person, as he was the opposite to me in so many ways. He was religious, conservative, sexist, unreasonable and demanding, whereas I am openly gay, atheist, communist, accepting of women as equals and very accomoodating in most matters. I always loved his music and his gifts, no one will ever touch his body of music, he had an amazing supreme level of talent, but that talent cost him in the end.

[Edited 4/19/17 4:44am]

PennyPurple said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I didnt see a search warrant for the medical records from Moline which is strange.

So I dont think the search warrants had verification of whether it was oxy or fentanyl.

It is also strange that no search warrant has been issued since September 2016.

I thought I seen that warrant. Let me do some checking. NO that was for the hospital or dr's office in MN.

[Edited 4/19/17 4:46am]

Someone brought up that these warrants were the local ones. The state and/or federal warrants - if any - were not released. So we don't know all in terms of warrants at this time.

Adorecream said:

bibrose said:

Adorecream -- allow for the possibility that some of those bottles of pills may have been planted to create the impression that P was a drug addict. Placing bottles of pills in several locations in PP is not consistent with P's meticulous nature. If he was hiding an addiction, placing bottles of pills in places where they could have been found was not a very smart thing to do.

If P had severe pain and was using pain medication to manage his pain condition, I see nothing wrong with that. The issue is determining where all the pills that were placed around PP came from. It seems extremely contrived to me and fits into my theory that the pills were planted.

Referring to P as a junkie is very disrespectful and says more about you than it says about him.

Sorry, but I am vey anti drugs and given all his holier than thou preaching against the dangers of drugs this seems hypocritical. I don't think the drugs were planted or for anyone else. Prince was doing these on the sly, getting as many drugs as he could under fako names. these Kornbergs or whoever the heck they are were Dr Feelgoods, enablers just like Klein and Murray were to MJ.

.

Sorry I have no Toleration of drug addicts. Prince lied to us, that will go down in the record, especially as I defended him against friends of mine convinced he was another druggie rock star who died of a drug overdose, which is essentially what happened.

.

He was a relcuse and a hermit by the end, living his decrepit and falling down dated 80s mausoleum to himself, his last days must have been sad and painful. In that way I feel sorry for him and still love him. I am still a hardcore fan, but at the same time I just can not condone drug abuse. It just really shocked me when I read those reports released by the Minnesota whatever authority and the Reelz movie that showed him as some bizarre recluse living in the haunted gallows of Paisley Park.

.

I never loved Prince the person, as he was the opposite to me in so many ways. He was religious, conservative, sexist, unreasonable and demanding, whereas I am openly gay, atheist, communist, accepting of women as equals and very accomoodating in most matters. I always loved his music and his gifts, no one will ever touch his body of music, he had an amazing supreme level of talent, but that talent cost him in the end.

[Edited 4/19/17 4:44am]

Thank you for your thoughtful, multifaceted response. I struggle to reconcile some of all that is Prince. : ) It sounds like you are farther along than I am with that. Like you, I have a lot of love.

You mention "no toleration of drug addicts." If you want to see fewer people addicted to drugs, I'd suggest not using terms like "junkie."

Also, I think any reasonable discussion of drug addiction needs to bear in mind the ability of drugs to remove pain, at least temporarily.

Physical and/or emotional pain can be so intense that people will take their own lives to relieve the pain. I don't imagine that Prince did that, but some of the people I'd most like to hear on the topic of drug addiction are those who have personally experienced chronic, excruciating pain.

Adorecream said:

bibrose said:

Adorecream -- allow for the possibility that some of those bottles of pills may have been planted to create the impression that P was a drug addict. Placing bottles of pills in several locations in PP is not consistent with P's meticulous nature. If he was hiding an addiction, placing bottles of pills in places where they could have been found was not a very smart thing to do.

If P had severe pain and was using pain medication to manage his pain condition, I see nothing wrong with that. The issue is determining where all the pills that were placed around PP came from. It seems extremely contrived to me and fits into my theory that the pills were planted.

Referring to P as a junkie is very disrespectful and says more about you than it says about him.

Sorry, but I am vey anti drugs and given all his holier than thou preaching against the dangers of drugs this seems hypocritical. I don't think the drugs were planted or for anyone else. Prince was doing these on the sly, getting as many drugs as he could under fako names. these Kornbergs or whoever the heck they are were Dr Feelgoods, enablers just like Klein and Murray were to MJ.

.

Sorry I have no Toleration of drug addicts. Prince lied to us, that will go down in the record, especially as I defended him against friends of mine convinced he was another druggie rock star who died of a drug overdose, which is essentially what happened.

.

He was a relcuse and a hermit by the end, living his decrepit and falling down dated 80s mausoleum to himself, his last days must have been sad and painful. In that way I feel sorry for him and still love him. I am still a hardcore fan, but at the same time I just can not condone drug abuse. It just really shocked me when I read those reports released by the Minnesota whatever authority and the Reelz movie that showed him as some bizarre recluse living in the haunted gallows of Paisley Park.

.

I never loved Prince the person, as he was the opposite to me in so many ways. He was religious, conservative, sexist, unreasonable and demanding, whereas I am openly gay, atheist, communist, accepting of women as equals and very accomoodating in most matters. I always loved his music and his gifts, no one will ever touch his body of music, he had an amazing supreme level of talent, but that talent cost him in the end.

[Edited 4/19/17 4:44am]

Well there is a HUGE issue here and that would be the term "junkie" which I highly doubt Prince was at any point in his life, Junkie is a term that we toss around like we know it means. If Prince was a "junkie" he never would have been on stage at any point, or if he would he would have died a long time ago. I dont think anyone is "condoning" drug use but IT is very easy for us to say "how could you get hooked" well guess what MILLIONS get hooked and probably most of them say "i would never get hooked". Pain meds are the most lethal thing in the world right now. doctors write and prescribe like fucking candy, the internet has become just what we thought it would become, a very dangerous vehicle for crime, be it anything from fake credit card numbers to sex trafficing to selling weapons to selling medications, the internet was the greatest and probably worst thing for a society to have. PAIN is a very tricky thing, and as you grow older your tolerance for that pain becomes less and less and being his LIFE was getting on that stage, he probably did what he could to get on that stage. We will never know the real truth, I really HOPE that everyone on the org. realizes that, despite , all these documents and hearsay and opinions, the one person who knows how it happened and what led to that last moment is not hear, so quite frankly this case was closed when his heart stopped beating, an autopsy a search warrant is not going to reveal anything.