Dibblekins said:

.

In addition, Databank is very much mistaken when he (I am assuming it's a 'he') says this: ' We're the only fans community in the world who's obsessed by their favorite artist's sales'.
I am also a member of a Van Halen forum. Believe me, this site has nothing on that one when it comes to dissecting record sales. And over there, you have two distinct camps: the David Lee Roth fans, and the Sammy Hagar fans - both of whom spend a considerable amount of energy and time arguing over the respective era's record sales - ad nauseam, lmao!!!

.

[Edited 10/22/16 13:57pm]

My bad then. It doesn't change a thing about my stand on the rest, just proves that Prince fans don't have more identity issues than others, which in a sense is reassuring.

djThunderfunk said:

Dibblekins said:

Thanks. According to Databank, above, the second reason is 'pathetic'; well, pathetic it may be, but I think the desire for approval, no matter how illogical / 'juvenile' it might be, is something that does tend to be in-built - even if we deny or seek to suppress it.

There is, for many of us, a visceral sense of joy when we see / hear those we love (even our favourite musicians) getting recognition and praise, even if that comes in the rather 'base' form of record sales!

The word "pathetic" may have hit a nerve, but databank makes a good point. Compare how many copies of Artificial Age sold to whatever Justin Beiber album came out closest to it. I'm not going to bother looking it up but my guess is Justin way outsold Artificial Age. Does that make Justin's album better? Not even close!

Sales and Billboard charts do not reflect quality or talent. By those kinds of standards Jimi Hendrix was a one hit wonder.

Then there's the whole thing about validation. It would be kind of pathetic if we required sales charts or universal opinion to validate our own feelings and opinions of Prince's music. No?

I mean, "desire for approval" is indeed "juvenile" and most of us mature past it.

The only thing relevent concerning how many copies sell is how those numbers affect the decisions concerning future releases. Other than that it means nothing and should have zero effect on the fans.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

It's reassuring to see I'm not the only adult on board

Dibblekins said:

djThunderfunk said:

The word "pathetic" may have hit a nerve, but databank makes a good point. Compare how many copies of Artificial Age sold to whatever Justin Beiber album came out closest to it. I'm not going to bother looking it up but my guess is Justin way outsold Artificial Age. Does that make Justin's album better? Not even close!

Sales and Billboard charts do not reflect quality or talent. By those kinds of standards Jimi Hendrix was a one hit wonder.

Then there's the whole thing about validation. It would be kind of pathetic if we required sales charts or universal opinion to validate our own feelings and opinions of Prince's music. No?

I mean, "desire for approval" is indeed "juvenile" and most of us mature past it.

The only thing relevent concerning how many copies sell is how those numbers affect the decisions concerning future releases. Other than that it means nothing and should have zero effect on the fans.

In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

I think you misunderstand me: no, I'm not a 'silly / pathetic' litte teenager desperate for approval. I don't buy things / listen to music just because it's popular with the masses or has sold a lot of copies, no.

.
However, what I am trying to say - perhaps not clearly enough - is that even though we prefer Prince to Justin Bieber (or whoever) and believe his music to be superior, it still gives some of us a real sense of pleasure to see him at the top of the charts where he belongs.

.
We are happy and content with our own personal musical choices, of course, irrespective of mainstream success. However, when it happens - because he / it has been marketed correctly, and is given the chance to be enjoyed by many more people, well, I for one, get a real thrill and sense of righteous satisfaction ('validation', if you will) from that. I don't think it makes me pathetic - it makes me human; a human being proud of Prince's achievements.
.

Incidentally, if you study human evolution, the 'desire for aproval' is an essential one, developed in the main, to ensure survival. We're basically social creatures, who tend to thrive in a 'pack'. In days gone by, deliberately snubbing one's nose at the pack usually meant one would get eaten.

.
That's not to say we haven't evolved from that point, or that we can't be individuals - of course not - we have highly developed brains, emotions, and can make personal choices derived from those. However, to completely and totally dismiss the idea of our tending to seek 'validation', no matter how immature or regressive it may appear is actually rather naive and not one based on good science.

.
'In my not-so-humble opinion, of course'.
.

You are totally correct in what you say about our instinct for peer approval, and I also want to thank you for providing intelligent replies to my remarks (this is all too rare here, where one usually end-up being flamed for expressing controversial opinions).

.

I would like to raise 2 things in answer to that:

.

First is that - and it's funny because I've been working on that lately in my intercultural studies class with Chinese students - one of the basis of the Western civilization is individualism. To take many shortcuts (it's obviously not as simple as what I'm gonna say), my interpretation of this is that each individual is to build their own system of values and to aim at being recognized by their peers for what differentiates them from the pack, as opposed from what makes them belong to the pack. I'm a strong believer in this, and I believe this is one of the greatest strength of our civilization, alongside humanist values inherited from the "Lumières" and a certain faith in rationalism inherited from Greek philosophers. Therefore, as a strong believer in individualism, I've always fought, and will always fight people's tendency for conformism, as something I believe goes against their own happiness.

.

Second is... Have we learnt nothing from the man who's the reason we're here, i.e. Prince? Prince of course himself was happy when he scored a hit, because to him that meant his art reached the most people and, let's be honest, that also meant big bucks in his pockets. On the other hand Prince's whole career and lyrics was a lesson in NOT following conformist views, even by the somewhat eccentric standards of the star system, from not singing on We Are The World to changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol, from not endorsing drugs to openly bashing the very major labels he needed to score hits. Prince, more than once, sabotaged his own career by making daring choices, but on the other hand he probably wouldn't be seen as such a mythic, rogue figure, if not for those daring choices. Now, I cannot deny that we can learn a great many different things from Prince's lyrics and career in terms of being loved by others, but the bottom line - and I hope all those new, young fans are reading this - is to make others respect you precisely because you are different and daring in your choices, attitudes and behavior. I'd illustrate this by quoting the third verse of DOW:

Tennis shoes and caps, now that's phat

Up until the day another wanna laugh behind your back

Sayin' we all look the same

God bless America, home of the brave

I'd rather dress 2 make a woman stare

I'm puttin' on somethin' that another won't dare

I for one - that's just an example - have realized a long time ago than "to make a woman stare", I was better off being different and taking full responsibility for my very feminine sensibility, attitude and looks (most people believe I'm gay while I'm not) than trying to emulate the behavior and looks of your stereotypical macho, masculine male. It does pay off, at least with women with brains, because most will find me attractiove precisely because I stand out from the pack. That's one lesson I've been lucky enough to learn from Prince, among many others, when I was still a teenager.

.

So yeah, u're right, but aren't we to raise ourselves above our condition and predetermined animal behaviors, as well as the social norm? I say we are.

djThunderfunk said:

Dibblekins said:

I think you misunderstand me: no, I'm not a 'silly / pathetic' litte teenager desperate for approval. I don't buy things / listen to music just because it's popular with the masses or has sold a lot of copies, no.

.
However, what I am trying to say - perhaps not clearly enough - is that even though we prefer Prince to Justin Bieber (or whoever) and believe his music to be superior, it still gives some of us a real sense of pleasure to see him at the top of the charts where he belongs.

.
We are happy and content with our own personal musical choices, of course, irrespective of mainstream success. However, when it happens - because he / it has been marketed correctly, and is given the chance to be enjoyed by many more people, well, I for one, get a real thrill and sense of righteous satisfaction ('validation', if you will) from that. I don't think it makes me pathetic - it makes me human; a human being proud of Prince's achievements.
.

Incidentally, if you study human evolution, the 'desire for aproval' is an essential one, developed in the main, to ensure survival. We're basically social creatures, who tend to thrive in a 'pack'. In days gone by, deliberately snubbing one's nose at the pack usually meant one would get eaten.

.
That's not to say we haven't evolved from that point, or that we can't be individuals - of course not - we have highly developed brains, emotions, and can make personal choices derived from those. However, to completely and totally dismiss the idea of our tending to seek 'validation', no matter how immature or regressive it may appear is actually rather naive and not one based on good science.

.
'In my not-so-humble opinion, of course'.
.

I don't disagree that it would indeed be a cool thing for a Prince release to be a "hit" again.

One issue that databank mentioned that some newer orgers probably aren't aware of is with the last several albums Prince released there were way too many threads on the org that indicated so many people were more concerned with sales & charts than the music on the albums. Some of us that have been here awhile may be a bit defensive against that kind of focus and some of those that joined the org this year may not be aware of the ongoing debate on the topic.

Unfortunately a segment of our society judges how good art is by how much money it makes. That segment sucks.
I agree though that it is nice when good art makes good money but I get zero pleasure from having a popular opinion.

Just sayin'...

[Edited 10/22/16 18:27pm]

Thanks for putting things in context.

.

Regarding your last point I believe it is a duty to fight against this "sales = quality" belief many people have. One has to wonder where does it come from? It comes from mainstream medias trying to sell their shit. Mainstream TV and radio have a tacit agreement with major labels and film studios to promote their material. More than often, this material is dumb, prefabricated products aimed at the most common denominator. More than often you will hear a TV host praising how such guest is an artistic genius while they are in fact carpet sellers. Obviously this brainwashing is necessary in order to preserve ratings: majors make easy to sell products and the media need those for easy high ratings, but they have to pretend that stones are diamonds to keep the viewers/listeners watching/listening. The result is that, from childhood, people are used to see people such as Justin Bieber or Britney Spears being described by popular TV/radio hosts as "great artists", which of course they do believe, and has the sad consequence of making more ambitious, daring or experimental artists being labels as "pretentious", which in turns brings the most odious of all things, i.e. anti-intellectualism. It is our duty to society to fight this, because the more educated the people, the better the society we live in.

.

The popular success of a piece of music is mostly related to how intensively it's been promoted, and has nothing to do whatsoever with its qualities as a work of art. If it was the case, the Top-40 wouldn't be filled with the likes of Rihanna, Bieber, Timberlake, Kesha, Gaga and so on, while dozens of daring, playful and complex records released every week won't even get close to touch the charts. This is even truer today because 30 years ago majors had some interest in promoting true artists, like Prince or Kate Bush, and taking the time to build them an audience. Noiowadays they don't give a damn and prefer to throw prefabricated products on the market (which they also did back then, but it was more balanced). I often read orgers my age or older complkaining that there is nothing interesting in contemporary music as opposed to when they were young. Believe me there is. I listen to a lot of recent music by new, young acts. There's a shitload of amazing artists releasing music every week, only now you have to go search for them on the internet, you have to make the effort of finding them, because u won't hear themù on the radio nor will u see them on TV. But believe me, they are there and the music scene is as dynamic and creative as ever.

djThunderfunk said:

I find myself agreeing with the comments about hoping for Edit versions in the cases where they have not been released yet on CD. So, I did some research on what is already on THTBS/TVBOP/UP & CD singles compared to the listings at Prince Vault. With that in mind I'm hoping some of these are included:

2. Little Red Corvette - Single Edit
4. Let's Go Crazy - Single Edit
14. Let's Work - Single Edit
17. Take Me With U - Single Edit
18. Paisley Park - Video Edit

20. Purple Rain - Single Edit or Single Edit Long Version or Radio Edit or Promo 7" Edit or Long Radio Edit
23. Alphabet Street - Single Edit and Single Edit Cont.
24. Batdance - Single Edit or Promo Edit or The Batmix Edit or Vicki Vale Mix Edit
28. Girls & Boys - Single Edit
32. Glam Slam - Single Edit or LP Version Promo Edit or Nothing Compares 2 Him Promo Edit

The LRC edit was released on CD earlier, I have it on a re-release cd-single of 1999. But yes it should be on it.

So the press release includes The Most Beautiful Girl In The World but the tracklist does'nt.

lust said:

rob1965 said:

lust said:

If Warner and and NPG are teaming up then why the fuck put out such a reductive tracklist. Prince didn't die 23 years ago mother fuckers.

The same thing crossed my mind.... But the Christmas season is coming, so the mighty dollar is more important than pleasing the Prince fan.

As said earlier in this thread, it seems that the compilation had been planned before Prince's death, and that it is not a negociation between WB and the estate. Therefore, it only covers WB material. I think it's a pity, though, that it should ignore the 4 post 1993 WB albums (Come, TGE, C&D and TVOF4S).

databank said:

It seems that this is getting a mixed reception here, but honestly, is there a better 2-disc set on the market? I think The Hits/The B-Sides is clearly the best due to the ultimate trump card in the 3rd disc, but this set actually does a nice job of adequately covering his career up to 1993 over the space of 2 discs.

We all may clamor for a 4-disc set or more, but for what this is, it seems pretty thoughtful.

Comparing this to the first 2 discs of The Hits/The B-Sides, we lose:

I Feel for You
Dirty Mind
Do Me, Baby
Adore
Pink Cashmere
Pope

But we gain:

Gotta Stop (Messin' About)*
Let's Work
Moonbeam Levels
Take Me With U
Paisley Park
Mountains
Girls & Boys
Glam Slam
Batdance
My Name Is Prince

That's a pretty good trade, I think.

I was skeptical about another compilation when the rumors suggested one was coming, but this seems like a good effort as far as serving as a 2-disc overview.

which songs do you think will be included in the PR Deluxe edition ? I hope the extra disc will only contain Prince songs and nothing from Apollonia or the time.

[Edited 10/23/16 4:18am]

tomds said:

which songs do you think will be included in the PR Deluxe edition ?

The way everything seems to be handled, the b sides from the era and a 17 minutes version of Computer Blue...

databank said:

.

Second is... Have we learnt nothing from the man who's the reason we're here, i.e. Prince? Prince of course himself was happy when he scored a hit, because to him that meant his art reached the most people and, let's be honest, that also meant big bucks in his pockets. On the other hand Prince's whole career and lyrics was a lesson in NOT following conformist views, even by the somewhat eccentric standards of the star system, from not singing on We Are The World to changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol, from not endorsing drugs to openly bashing the very major labels he needed to score hits. Prince, more than once, sabotaged his own career by making daring choices, but on the other hand he probably wouldn't be seen as such a mythic, rogue figure, if not for those daring choices. Now, I cannot deny that we can learn a great many different things from Prince's lyrics and career in terms of being loved by others, but the bottom line - and I hope all those new, young fans are reading this - is to make others respect you precisely because you are different and daring in your choices, attitudes and behavior. I'd illustrate this by quoting the third verse of DOW:

Tennis shoes and caps, now that's phat

Up until the day another wanna laugh behind your back

Sayin' we all look the same

God bless America, home of the brave

I'd rather dress 2 make a woman stare

I'm puttin' on somethin' that another won't dare

I for one - that's just an example - have realized a long time ago than "to make a woman stare", I was better off being different and taking full responsibility for my very feminine sensibility, attitude and looks (most people believe I'm gay while I'm not) than trying to emulate the behavior and looks of your stereotypical macho, masculine male. It does pay off, at least with women with brains, because most will find me attractiove precisely because I stand out from the pack. That's one lesson I've been lucky enough to learn from Prince, among many others, when I was still a teenager.

.

So yeah, u're right, but aren't we to raise ourselves above our condition and predetermined animal behaviors, as well as the social norm? I say we are.

Totally agree with this comment. Prince sabotaged his own career by openly going against the stream. I'm sure that position alllowed him to sleep at night, knowing he was true to himself, and from the very beginning at that. That's why he was "feared" in the music industry. he took a stance and was in the process of helping others, younger musicians, take a stance also. That in itself is a very dangerous and daring position.

tomds said:

which songs do you think will be included in the PR Deluxe edition ? I hope the extra disc will only contain Prince songs and nothing from Apollonia or the time.

[Edited 10/23/16 4:18am]

Hopefully not. Apollonia 6 and Ice Cream Castles deserve their own remastered edition with bonus tracks.

databank said:

tomds said:

which songs do you think will be included in the PR Deluxe edition ? I hope the extra disc will only contain Prince songs and nothing from Apollonia or the time.

[Edited 10/23/16 4:18am]

Hopefully not. Apollonia 6 and Ice Cream Castles deserve their own remastered edition with bonus tracks.

And further down the line (but not too far) all the The Time tracks released with Prince's vocals... It's my one bootleg dream!

Great another rehash of the same hits collections of 1982 - 1992 Warners material we all have umpteen copiesof. I think I may even pass here.

.

Remastered Purple Rain is worth a lokk, but how about remastered Sign o the Times?

databank said:

Dibblekins said:

I think you misunderstand me: no, I'm not a 'silly / pathetic' litte teenager desperate for approval. I don't buy things / listen to music just because it's popular with the masses or has sold a lot of copies, no.

.
However, what I am trying to say - perhaps not clearly enough - is that even though we prefer Prince to Justin Bieber (or whoever) and believe his music to be superior, it still gives some of us a real sense of pleasure to see him at the top of the charts where he belongs.

.
We are happy and content with our own personal musical choices, of course, irrespective of mainstream success. However, when it happens - because he / it has been marketed correctly, and is given the chance to be enjoyed by many more people, well, I for one, get a real thrill and sense of righteous satisfaction ('validation', if you will) from that. I don't think it makes me pathetic - it makes me human; a human being proud of Prince's achievements.
.

Incidentally, if you study human evolution, the 'desire for aproval' is an essential one, developed in the main, to ensure survival. We're basically social creatures, who tend to thrive in a 'pack'. In days gone by, deliberately snubbing one's nose at the pack usually meant one would get eaten.

.
That's not to say we haven't evolved from that point, or that we can't be individuals - of course not - we have highly developed brains, emotions, and can make personal choices derived from those. However, to completely and totally dismiss the idea of our tending to seek 'validation', no matter how immature or regressive it may appear is actually rather naive and not one based on good science.

.
'In my not-so-humble opinion, of course'.
.

You are totally correct in what you say about our instinct for peer approval, and I also want to thank you for providing intelligent replies to my remarks (this is all too rare here, where one usually end-up being flamed for expressing controversial opinions).

.

I would like to raise 2 things in answer to that:

.

First is that - and it's funny because I've been working on that lately in my intercultural studies class with Chinese students - one of the basis of the Western civilization is individualism. To take many shortcuts (it's obviously not as simple as what I'm gonna say), my interpretation of this is that each individual is to build their own system of values and to aim at being recognized by their peers for what differentiates them from the pack, as opposed from what makes them belong to the pack. I'm a strong believer in this, and I believe this is one of the greatest strength of our civilization, alongside humanist values inherited from the "Lumières" and a certain faith in rationalism inherited from Greek philosophers. Therefore, as a strong believer in individualism, I've always fought, and will always fight people's tendency for conformism, as something I believe goes against their own happiness.

.

Second is... Have we learnt nothing from the man who's the reason we're here, i.e. Prince? Prince of course himself was happy when he scored a hit, because to him that meant his art reached the most people and, let's be honest, that also meant big bucks in his pockets. On the other hand Prince's whole career and lyrics was a lesson in NOT following conformist views, even by the somewhat eccentric standards of the star system, from not singing on We Are The World to changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol, from not endorsing drugs to openly bashing the very major labels he needed to score hits. Prince, more than once, sabotaged his own career by making daring choices, but on the other hand he probably wouldn't be seen as such a mythic, rogue figure, if not for those daring choices. Now, I cannot deny that we can learn a great many different things from Prince's lyrics and career in terms of being loved by others, but the bottom line - and I hope all those new, young fans are reading this - is to make others respect you precisely because you are different and daring in your choices, attitudes and behavior. I'd illustrate this by quoting the third verse of DOW:

Tennis shoes and caps, now that's phat

Up until the day another wanna laugh behind your back

Sayin' we all look the same

God bless America, home of the brave

I'd rather dress 2 make a woman stare

I'm puttin' on somethin' that another won't dare

I for one - that's just an example - have realized a long time ago than "to make a woman stare", I was better off being different and taking full responsibility for my very feminine sensibility, attitude and looks (most people believe I'm gay while I'm not) than trying to emulate the behavior and looks of your stereotypical macho, masculine male. It does pay off, at least with women with brains, because most will find me attractiove precisely because I stand out from the pack. That's one lesson I've been lucky enough to learn from Prince, among many others, when I was still a teenager.

.

So yeah, u're right, but aren't we to raise ourselves above our condition and predetermined animal behaviors, as well as the social norm? I say we are.

muleFunk said:

databank said:

You are totally correct in what you say about our instinct for peer approval, and I also want to thank you for providing intelligent replies to my remarks (this is all too rare here, where one usually end-up being flamed for expressing controversial opinions).

.

I would like to raise 2 things in answer to that:

.

First is that - and it's funny because I've been working on that lately in my intercultural studies class with Chinese students - one of the basis of the Western civilization is individualism. To take many shortcuts (it's obviously not as simple as what I'm gonna say), my interpretation of this is that each individual is to build their own system of values and to aim at being recognized by their peers for what differentiates them from the pack, as opposed from what makes them belong to the pack. I'm a strong believer in this, and I believe this is one of the greatest strength of our civilization, alongside humanist values inherited from the "Lumières" and a certain faith in rationalism inherited from Greek philosophers. Therefore, as a strong believer in individualism, I've always fought, and will always fight people's tendency for conformism, as something I believe goes against their own happiness.

.

Second is... Have we learnt nothing from the man who's the reason we're here, i.e. Prince? Prince of course himself was happy when he scored a hit, because to him that meant his art reached the most people and, let's be honest, that also meant big bucks in his pockets. On the other hand Prince's whole career and lyrics was a lesson in NOT following conformist views, even by the somewhat eccentric standards of the star system, from not singing on We Are The World to changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol, from not endorsing drugs to openly bashing the very major labels he needed to score hits. Prince, more than once, sabotaged his own career by making daring choices, but on the other hand he probably wouldn't be seen as such a mythic, rogue figure, if not for those daring choices. Now, I cannot deny that we can learn a great many different things from Prince's lyrics and career in terms of being loved by others, but the bottom line - and I hope all those new, young fans are reading this - is to make others respect you precisely because you are different and daring in your choices, attitudes and behavior. I'd illustrate this by quoting the third verse of DOW:

Tennis shoes and caps, now that's phat

Up until the day another wanna laugh behind your back

Sayin' we all look the same

God bless America, home of the brave

I'd rather dress 2 make a woman stare

I'm puttin' on somethin' that another won't dare

I for one - that's just an example - have realized a long time ago than "to make a woman stare", I was better off being different and taking full responsibility for my very feminine sensibility, attitude and looks (most people believe I'm gay while I'm not) than trying to emulate the behavior and looks of your stereotypical macho, masculine male. It does pay off, at least with women with brains, because most will find me attractiove precisely because I stand out from the pack. That's one lesson I've been lucky enough to learn from Prince, among many others, when I was still a teenager.

.

So yeah, u're right, but aren't we to raise ourselves above our condition and predetermined animal behaviors, as well as the social norm? I say we are.

.
I would agree - and said as much in the last part of my post to which you were responding, Databank...Individuality and daring are to be applauded, of course - even if we're not always courageous enough to emulate those traits.
.
However, in terms of this new release, I would also urge pragmatism - that's if we really want Prince's works to be promoted effectively, reach new audiences, and have his legacy not just appreciated by those 'already in the know' but widened in its scope / reach so that there is a louder call for further investment in collating and distributing his efforts. In that sense, I personally very much want Prince's music to be MORE than just a 'niche market'; I don't want to be one of a select few who are familiar with, and appreciative of, his lesser known gems.
.
I very much want Prince to be marketed succesfully so that he has, at least, some chance of becoming popular again with the masses - not because that makes me feel 'comfortable in my conformity' but because, in this numbers-obsessed world in which we live, it means we're more likely to hear more of those gems. It means his legacy has even more chance of longevity - and because, as I explained earlier, it means more people getting the same joy from his work as that already experienced by those of us posting here!
.
To do as you did, and quote P - 'there's joy in repetition' - the more of us hearing his material; the more joy there is around the world - and who wouldn't want that, huh!?

.

databank said:

Dibblekins said:

You are totally correct in what you say about our instinct for peer approval, and I also want to thank you for providing intelligent replies to my remarks (this is all too rare here, where one usually end-up being flamed for expressing controversial opinions).

I second THIS! Proof that it is not necessary to flame, denegrate, or belittle when discussing or debating. We don't have to agree, in fact discussions are more interesting when we don't. But as proven here, we can disagree while still being civil and respectful and get along just fine.

Thank you Dibblekins and databank for helping to illustrate this!!

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

You are totally correct in what you say about our instinct for peer approval, and I also want to thank you for providing intelligent replies to my remarks (this is all too rare here, where one usually end-up being flamed for expressing controversial opinions).

I second THIS! Proof that it is not necessary to flame, denegrate, or belittle when discussing or debating. We don't have to agree, in fact discussions are more interesting when we don't. But as proven here, we can disagree while still being civil and respectful and get along just fine.

Thank you Dibblekins and databank for helping to illustrate this!!

It's odd that 'Soft and Wet' is stuck between the two Prince tracks... that's gonna irk me a bit.

Releases via alternate channels make this '4ever' and PR 'remastered' feel like meh.

Unless PR has some exquisite versions of songs we know or maybe even stuff we do not know it is in the same category as '4ever'.

Adorecream said:

Remastered Purple Rain is worth a lokk, but how about remastered Sign o the Times?

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

I don't disagree that it would indeed be a cool thing for a Prince release to be a "hit" again.

One issue that databank mentioned that some newer orgers probably aren't aware of is with the last several albums Prince released there were way too many threads on the org that indicated so many people were more concerned with sales & charts than the music on the albums. Some of us that have been here awhile may be a bit defensive against that kind of focus and some of those that joined the org this year may not be aware of the ongoing debate on the topic.

Unfortunately a segment of our society judges how good art is by how much money it makes. That segment sucks.
I agree though that it is nice when good art makes good money but I get zero pleasure from having a popular opinion.

Just sayin'...

[Edited 10/22/16 18:27pm]

Thanks for putting things in context.

.

Regarding your last point I believe it is a duty to fight against this "sales = quality" belief many people have. One has to wonder where does it come from? It comes from mainstream medias trying to sell their shit. Mainstream TV and radio have a tacit agreement with major labels and film studios to promote their material. More than often, this material is dumb, prefabricated products aimed at the most common denominator. More than often you will hear a TV host praising how such guest is an artistic genius while they are in fact carpet sellers. Obviously this brainwashing is necessary in order to preserve ratings: majors make easy to sell products and the media need those for easy high ratings, but they have to pretend that stones are diamonds to keep the viewers/listeners watching/listening. The result is that, from childhood, people are used to see people such as Justin Bieber or Britney Spears being described by popular TV/radio hosts as "great artists", which of course they do believe, and has the sad consequence of making more ambitious, daring or experimental artists being labels as "pretentious", which in turns brings the most odious of all things, i.e. anti-intellectualism. It is our duty to society to fight this, because the more educated the people, the better the society we live in.

.

The popular success of a piece of music is mostly related to how intensively it's been promoted, and has nothing to do whatsoever with its qualities as a work of art. If it was the case, the Top-40 wouldn't be filled with the likes of Rihanna, Bieber, Timberlake, Kesha, Gaga and so on, while dozens of daring, playful and complex records released every week won't even get close to touch the charts. This is even truer today because 30 years ago majors had some interest in promoting true artists, like Prince or Kate Bush, and taking the time to build them an audience. Noiowadays they don't give a damn and prefer to throw prefabricated products on the market (which they also did back then, but it was more balanced). I often read orgers my age or older complkaining that there is nothing interesting in contemporary music as opposed to when they were young. Believe me there is. I listen to a lot of recent music by new, young acts. There's a shitload of amazing artists releasing music every week, only now you have to go search for them on the internet, you have to make the effort of finding them, because u won't hear themù on the radio nor will u see them on TV. But believe me, they are there and the music scene is as dynamic and creative as ever.

This is one of the best posts that I have read here in years !

We would be remiss to not mention that the reason why this is happening is because the mass media is just 6 or 7 companies trying to turn profit. The kids who are making "true" music will not get to be heard because the Mass Media Conglomerates will have to pay them. This goes back to one of my huge problems with the way people look at Prince's career with WB because several records were not marketed correctly ON PURPOSE in order to make his sales decline and not pay him. He was relegated to the R&B division of WB to "put him in his place" and cut his sales and marketing.We used to have major discussions about this in Nashville in the early to mid ninties.

Adorecream said:

Adorecream said:

Remastered Purple Rain is worth a lokk, but how about remastered Sign o the Times?

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He made any music post PR?!?!?!?!!!!?

databank said:

Second is... Have we learnt nothing from the man who's the reason we're here, i.e. Prince? Prince of course himself was happy when he scored a hit, because to him that meant his art reached the most people and, let's be honest, that also meant big bucks in his pockets. On the other hand Prince's whole career and lyrics was a lesson in NOT following conformist views, even by the somewhat eccentric standards of the star system, from not singing on We Are The World to changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol, from not endorsing drugs to openly bashing the very major labels he needed to score hits. Prince, more than once, sabotaged his own career by making daring choices, but on the other hand he probably wouldn't be seen as such a mythic, rogue figure, if not for those daring choices. Now, I cannot deny that we can learn a great many different things from Prince's lyrics and career in terms of being loved by others, but the bottom line - and I hope all those new, young fans are reading this - is to make others respect you precisely because you are different and daring in your choices, attitudes and behavior.

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So what? After Rave went nowhere Prince was bitching about Clive Davis not givign him hits. Hell, we know he was still obsessed with having "the biggest record contract in the world" in the late 2000s. Do you really think he included bad copies of Black Eyed Peas songs on his records as an artistic decision? Or HNR Phase 1? Etc. Prince desperately wanted hits and he was quick to boast about sales numbers and chart positions whenever he had "positive" ones.

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Sure, he made plenty of daring artistic choices which paid off. But he also made a lot of absolutely idiotic ones -- and then blamed others for their failure. He blamed WB when a record tanked, even though he stubbornly ignored their advice.

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Sales are important, especially when you end up selling records through shady labels who decide to use your single to add a couple of tracks from some rappers that are on your label. Or when your record only gets sold through amateurish fan-run online shops. Or when it takes months until Jay-Z gives in and convinces his label to distribute your record.

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Prince will not be remembered for the disaster that was his post-WBR career. Or for the disastrous latter part of those WBR years. And even those glorious 1980s years will be countered with "if only he had done X". And his refusal to curate his back catalogue was downright criminal -- just look at how SOTT was disappearing from view in recent years.

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I can only hope the upcoming re-release of PR brings in plenty of cash and that whoever gets the rights to the Vault has deep pockets, because no, it is NOT cheap to work on such releases. Go read this or this and then think of the mess that is Prince's vault. And those that acquire such rights will want evidence that their investment will have a sizable ROI. I don't think the performance of this upcoming compilation will be a showstopper, but if PR fails...

MMJas said:

Totally agree with this comment. Prince sabotaged his own career by openly going against the stream. I'm sure that position alllowed him to sleep at night, knowing he was true to himself, and from the very beginning at that. That's why he was "feared" in the music industry. he took a stance and was in the process of helping others, younger musicians, take a stance also. That in itself is a very dangerous and daring position.

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Oh please, as if any younger artist looks at Prince's career of the past two decades as a guiding light.

Dibblekins said:

muleFunk said:

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I would agree - and said as much in the last part of my post to which you were responding, Databank...Individuality and daring are to be applauded, of course - even if we're not always courageous enough to emulate those traits.
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However, in terms of this new release, I would also urge pragmatism - that's if we really want Prince's works to be promoted effectively, reach new audiences, and have his legacy not just appreciated by those 'already in the know' but widened in its scope / reach so that there is a louder call for further investment in collating and distributing his efforts. In that sense, I personally very much want Prince's music to be MORE than just a 'niche market'; I don't want to be one of a select few who are familiar with, and appreciative of, his lesser known gems.
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I very much want Prince to be marketed succesfully so that he has, at least, some chance of becoming popular again with the masses - not because that makes me feel 'comfortable in my conformity' but because, in this numbers-obsessed world in which we live, it means we're more likely to hear more of those gems. It means his legacy has even more chance of longevity - and because, as I explained earlier, it means more people getting the same joy from his work as that already experienced by those of us posting here!
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To do as you did, and quote P - 'there's joy in repetition' - the more of us hearing his material; the more joy there is around the world - and who wouldn't want that, huh!?

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My exact thoughts