ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

leadline said:

Or it was just a bag with nothing sinister in it, perhaps a crapload of coconut water, or, a puppy.

Kirk wasnt his full-time bodyguard. Chris Gaither was...who happened to be on vacation.

His bodyguard was on vacation. He takes poison pills. He is dressed backwards? Found in an elevator?

That's fishy.

TMZ, owned by Time-Warner, breaks the story?

morningsong said:

ForeverPaisley said:

Yep definitely a possibility too - I didn't mean only inside out in my comment, but yes - backwards is easy to happen in this circumstance EITHER if he dressed himself OR they did upon waiting for emergency or such.

I found it odd that every article of clothing was put on incoorectly. not just one sock on inside in and the other inside out, the shirt on correctly but the pants on wrong, what are the odds that everything is put on wrong if your haphazardly dressing yourself in your own clothes. Prince has a lifetime history of being neat. Someone unfamiliar with dressing another person may not realized everything would be backwards to them, and they'd only be concerned about the socks matching not which side was which.

Maybe when Prince undressed earlier in the evening, his clothes were inside-out after he'd taken them off. Then when he was found in the elevator, the nearest clothes anybody found were those clothes and they just put them on him without paying attention to details like if they were inside out, backwards, whatever...they just wanted him clothed and covered. I know from my own experience of times I had to rush to the ER and was feeling unwell (one time was due to a reaction from a new med and it made my thinking very cloudy) I put my sneakers on the wrong feet and I didn't even realize it until later when I got to the ER and was undressing and the person who brought me to the ER pointed out what I'd done.

morningsong said:

ForeverPaisley said:

Yep definitely a possibility too - I didn't mean only inside out in my comment, but yes - backwards is easy to happen in this circumstance EITHER if he dressed himself OR they did upon waiting for emergency or such.

I found it odd that every article of clothing was put on incoorectly. not just one sock on inside in and the other inside out, the shirt on correctly but the pants on wrong, what are the odds that everything is put on wrong if your haphazardly dressing yourself in your own clothes. Prince has a lifetime history of being neat. Someone unfamiliar with dressing another person may not realized everything would be backwards to them, and they'd only be concerned about the socks matching not which side was which.

this is what gets me. i'd figure him for either seeking help while naked, as we know he didn't hesitate to put his stuff out there, or he would put the clothes on correctly. that is, IF he were mentally cognizant of needing help, and seeking said help, he'd likely be able to get at least one article of clothing right.

terrig said:

purplerabbithole said:

XxAxX said:

XxAxX said:

ForeverPaisley said:

It makes me feel you've never a) experienced a medical emergency yourself or b) are unaware of how complications from, or combined effects of, including overdose of drugs, can truly impair even motor skills, as well as judgement. In that state of mind, and or the possible medical emergency happening in his body (if he indeed got out of bed and tried to go for help) he probably was thinking clothing versus no clothing, I don't think he could have stopped to care about those details of inside out of not, at that moment in time.

Though I still don't know why he didn't just call someone immediately WHILE trying to clothe himself in that state.

And...this all completely throws what I previously thought out the window. I thought he had come HOME and was on his way upstairs...and that's when it happened. This has literally spun everything on its head.

as fas as being unaware of what his mental status was, you're right. i've never used opioids like that. thank you for pointing that out.

and as far as his state of dress, you make a good point that he wouldn't have cared in what state he was clothed.

i personally think he wouldn't have cared if he was nude, when he was aware that he'd nearly passed on less than a week before, likely with the same preceding symptoms. your take on that is valid too, that he was so confused he wasn't aware of what he was doing.

i think we do agree that it makes more sense he would have been better served by reaching out for help than putting on a pair of socks. i think he was likely intelligent enough to have known that, but as you point out i don't know the precise effects of opioids like fentanyl.

[Edited 8/21/16 0:25am]

I don't personally know the effects of opioids, (well, except for percocet or morphine from major surgeries following being hit by a car but not in the degree we're discussing here) but unfortunately watching the effects on a family member gives one a clear impression of how these awful drugs impair a person. Given that Fentanyl is said to be even stronger than percocet, morphine and heroin, I think it's safe to say the affects on him would have been even worse.

You do make a good point - if he was sober/lucid while having a medical emergency, that he would've been extremely alarmed given the life or death incident the week before, and not give a fuck if he was naked when trying to go for help. I agree. But he wasn't lucid/sober. He was overdosing on some lethal drugs. You have to throw out rational thinking...these things go out the window when you are seriously impaired. I agree with most of what you replied if we were dealing with Prince as we know him not under the influence of drugs. And like you said, he would normally have been intelligent enough to know that, but in this circumstance, I just don't think he was.

Still, I maintain that it is very strange that in PP, he would've had to leave his upper suite every time he needed something?! That just makes zero sense. Like chilling at home...he gets a craving and wants to order delivery (which i think someone said he did from time to time)...has to put 'proper clothes' on and walk his ass downstairs just for that request? As opposed to picking up a landline and calling his peeps in PP to ask? It's just weird. THAT's the part that gets me.

morningsong said:

XxAxX said:

as fas as being unaware of what his mental status was, you're right. i've never used opioids like that. thank you for pointing that out.

and as far as his state of dress, you make a good point that he wouldn't have cared in what state he was clothed.

i personally think he wouldn't have cared if he was nude, when he was aware that he'd nearly passed on less than a week before, likely with the same preceding symptoms. your take on that is valid too, that he was so confused he wasn't aware of what he was doing.

i think we do agree that it makes more sense he would have been better served by reaching out for help than putting on a pair of socks. i think he was likely intelligent enough to have known that, but as you point out i don't know the precise effects of opioids like fentanyl.

[Edited 8/21/16 0:25am]

Well

uh, sorry...Can't tell if this is supposed to be correcting a typo, a post that inadvertantly clicked to post too soon...? An incomplete question ?

slowlywiltingflower said:

LoriJ said:

luv4u said:

morningsong said:

XxAxX said:

yes, i'm being entirely rational. or, i'm not since maybe my brain just needs a bit of rest

Not much rest is goig to happen this evening now.

Definitely not.

morningsong said:

slowlywiltingflower said:

Maybe when Prince undressed earlier in the evening, his clothes were inside-out after he'd taken them off. Then when he was found in the elevator, the nearest clothes anybody found were those clothes and they just put them on him without paying attention to details like if they were inside out, backwards, whatever...they just wanted him clothed and covered. I know from my own experience of times I had to rush to the ER and was feeling unwell (one time was due to a reaction from a new med and it made my thinking very cloudy) I put my sneakers on the wrong feet and I didn't even realize it until later when I got to the ER and was undressing and the person who brought me to the ER pointed out what I'd done.

It's possible, but it was fast. iirc under 5 minutes for paramedics and the sheriff arrived before that. PP is pretty big and how'd they know where he took off his clothes. as i said I have no clue how this elevator is situated in that building, how many levels it goes, is it neaer the studios or his living quarters or both? idk

I'm not clear on where the elevator is located in relation to those other areas either. You're right about the time and how fast it all happened for people to find those exact clothes (weren't they the same clothes he was wearing the day before?) Maybe the clothes were in the elevator with him? I don't know I'm just throwing out theories. Is fentanyl or the mixture of it with those other meds the kind of drug/s that cause people to get very hot and tear off their clothes? I know meth does that to people, it's a very common occurance because the person feels like they're burning up. So maybe Prince was in the elevator long enough to start feeling that way and he took his clothes off in the elevator? Gosh I hate imaging these things but I can't help it...

XxAxX said:

rogifan said:

XxAxX said: Foul play by who?

imo it was tasteless before now to discuss foul play, but at this point imo, the backward clothing absolutely speaks to some kind of interference.

foul play insofar as what happened and what we've been told so far don't quite match. foul play as in his body was found clad in inside out and backward clothing, which would, as i said above, seem to indicate some kind of interference with his remains after he passed.

We have, allegedly, no alarm on at PP. His main security guy not there. We have an OD due to taking something labeled at hydrocodone (NORCO), and we have a body tampered with in my opinion. No way Prince has on clothes inside out or backwards.

slowlywiltingflower said:

morningsong said:

ForeverPaisley said: I found it odd that every article of clothing was put on incoorectly. not just one sock on inside in and the other inside out, the shirt on correctly but the pants on wrong, what are the odds that everything is put on wrong if your haphazardly dressing yourself in your own clothes. Prince has a lifetime history of being neat. Someone unfamiliar with dressing another person may not realized everything would be backwards to them, and they'd only be concerned about the socks matching not which side was which.

Maybe when Prince undressed earlier in the evening, his clothes were inside-out after he'd taken them off. Then when he was found in the elevator, the nearest clothes anybody found were those clothes and they just put them on him without paying attention to details like if they were inside out, backwards, whatever...they just wanted him clothed and covered. I know from my own experience of times I had to rush to the ER and was feeling unwell (one time was due to a reaction from a new med and it made my thinking very cloudy) I put my sneakers on the wrong feet and I didn't even realize it until later when I got to the ER and was undressing and the person who brought me to the ER pointed out what I'd done.

Same here. In Oct I had a medical emergency at 4am and (live alone) had to call the ambulance. It dawned on me that I needed to not be wearing cami and pj shorts. Managed to put a pair of leggings on and pull a hoodie on over top. It wasn't until leaving the hospital that I realized my leggings were backwards. These things you just don't stop and think about in emergencies.

Why would his staff call for help and leave mislabeled medications on site? What did any of his staff have to gain by his death? Nothing. They are out of work.

Who "told" this story to media? Who has to gain from the story or his death? Who hates him so much they continue to try and hurt him?

Doesn't seem like it is any record company.

We knew he was under doctor's care for pain management. We now know he suffered a great deal from not only pain, but the chemical dependency on those pain medications. We also know he was working to be free of the medications. How a medication was mislabeled and placed among his regular medications is the question. He knew he almost died less than a week earlier and according to Ms. Hill, was keen to stay on the planet. He understood the withdrawal because he'd been sick for a month with it--according to reports.

Until recently physicians believed the opioids were non-addictive. That was the sales pitch.

Prince worked all his life for freedom--not only his own contractual, but freedom from prejudice and fear--to transcend all of that using his music. He accomplished that and more.

[Edited 8/21/16 2:15am]

slowlywiltingflower said:

ForeverPaisley said:

slowlywiltingflower said:

Maybe when Prince undressed earlier in the evening, his clothes were inside-out after he'd taken them off. Then when he was found in the elevator, the nearest clothes anybody found were those clothes and they just put them on him without paying attention to details like if they were inside out, backwards, whatever...they just wanted him clothed and covered. I know from my own experience of times I had to rush to the ER and was feeling unwell (one time was due to a reaction from a new med and it made my thinking very cloudy) I put my sneakers on the wrong feet and I didn't even realize it until later when I got to the ER and was undressing and the person who brought me to the ER pointed out what I'd done.

Same here. In Oct I had a medical emergency at 4am and (live alone) had to call the ambulance. It dawned on me that I needed to not be wearing cami and pj shorts. Managed to put a pair of leggings on and pull a hoodie on over top. It wasn't until leaving the hospital that I realized my leggings were backwards. These things you just don't stop and think about in emergencies.

Yes, exactly. When you're a) not thinking clearly due to pain, illness, stress, etc; and b) you're rushed and your main objective is just to BE CLOTHED so you can leave to get to the hospital, it doesn't matter how neat or orderly or carefully dressed you normally are in your daily life...all that goes out the window during times of emergency. (and btw, I've put my sweatpants on backwards when leaving the ER and didn't discover that fact until I got home, so I empathize with you! )

Still no closure. You did not deserve this Prince. Miss you

morningsong said:

slowlywiltingflower said:

I'm not clear on where the elevator is located in relation to those other areas either. You're right about the time and how fast it all happened for people to find those exact clothes (weren't they the same clothes he was wearing the day before?) Maybe the clothes were in the elevator with him? I don't know I'm just throwing out theories. Is fentanyl or the mixture of it with those other meds the kind of drug/s that cause people to get very hot and tear off their clothes? I know meth does that to people, it's a very common occurance because the person feels like they're burning up. So maybe Prince was in the elevator long enough to start feeling that way and he took his clothes off in the elevator? Gosh I hate imaging these things but I can't help it...

We all are throwing in theories. Not good to insist that only one is possible. That would have to be awfully hot to do that on a short elevator ride or that's a slow elevator for 3-4 floors.

It was reported he'd been gone already for 6 hours when he was found, so I was thinking perhaps he collapsed in the elevator and once it landed on the first floor (assuming that's where it was when his staff members found him) he just stayed in the elevator for that length of time, and that's where he removed his clothing either due to body temperature or thinking that he was somewhere else or something like that.

slowlywiltingflower said:

morningsong said:

One of the overdose victims in California was David Alfaro, a 53-year old man who suffered chronic pain from a leg injury, according to a report by KCRA-TV. "He bought what he thought was Norco, and it ended up being fentanyl -- and it killed him," said Marinda Conway, Alfaro’s common law wife. "He wasn't a heroin addict that was looking to substitute his addiction by buying street pills. He wasn't an opioid addict by any means.” Conway said a single fake Norco pill was enough to kill Alfaro, although autopsy results are pending. "This has been my fear with the new CDC guidelines that more people with pain will have less access to prescription medications; therefore taking matters into their own hands, self-medicating with medications bought on the street," said Paul Gileno, president of U.S. Pain Foundation, referring to recently adopted government guidelines that discourage primary care physicians from prescribing opioids for chronic pain. "The CDC never thought about the unintended consequences from limiting access to legitimate patients needing care whose clinicians now feel unable to prescribe or treat appropriately. My worst nightmare is the possible repercussions looming in the future due to these hindering guidelines," Gileno said. In a survey last fall of over 2,000 pain patients by Pain News Network, 70 percent predicted that use of heroin and other illegal drugs would increase if the CDC guidelines were adopted.

YES!!!

morningsong said:

slowlywiltingflower said:

Yes, exactly. When you're a) not thinking clearly due to pain, illness, stress, etc; and b) you're rushed and your main objective is just to BE CLOTHED so you can leave to get to the hospital, it doesn't matter how neat or orderly or carefully dressed you normally are in your daily life...all that goes out the window during times of emergency. (and btw, I've put my sweatpants on backwards when leaving the ER and didn't discover that fact until I got home, so I empathize with you! )

both of you were rushing out your house not dressing to use the phone inside your house and not everything you had on was put on wrong. Sure a piece of clothing was wrong but not all of it.

I understand mostly the point/s you're wanting to make, which are good points..but I'm not clear about the "not dressing to use the phone inside your house" part. Are you saying Prince was rushing to go downstairs to use a phone? Or...? Forgive me for being dense and missing the obvious but it's late here. I should be in bed actually.

morningsong said:

slowlywiltingflower said:

lwr001 said:

morningsong said:

slowlywiltingflower said:

It was reported he'd been gone already for 6 hours when he was found, so I was thinking perhaps he collapsed in the elevator and once it landed on the first floor (assuming that's where it was when his staff members found him) he just stayed in the elevator for that length of time, and that's where he removed his clothing either due to body temperature or thinking that he was somewhere else or something like that.

What? ok if I go any further it gets morbid, this is not an arm wrestling contest, I think I've crossed the line already and I don't care to go any further, To your theory. I know the DEA will look at every possibility and that's who counts right now.

I don't understand the tone of hostility I'm getting from you. I understand this is morbid. This ENTIRE SITUATION and discussion is morbid. I was only trying to make some sense of what seems to make NO sense (ie his clothing). I was certainly not trying to have an "arm wrestling" contest with you and I don't get how you got that from me. I thought we were having a discussion about a very sad, but unfortunately very real, tragedy. I'm sorry if I've offended you. Finally, I tried to word my responses on this thread carefully, yet clearly, so again I apologize if I crossed some line with you. I honestly don't understand what I said that made you think I was 'arm wrestling' with you or being argumentative, so again, I'm sorry.