ccollin88 said:

He has no one to tell him your truth besides you.

Moonbeam said:

THATS ALL HE NEEDS because i'm honest....I hold him accountable for fartin on records to a beat...did u hear that cheesy synth line in black sweat?he farted there and knew most of yall would accept it ,but not me,i have to much respect for myself To go out like that.I love prince too much to continue to LET HIM fart on records.somebody has to be the voice of reasoning... IAM SO!

who said he was the best? sure he may be many of our favorite but NONE of us have heard EVERYONE ever... so you have to understand that when people say "he is the greatest .... ever" they REALLY mean (unless they are just diluted) "he is my favorite that i have heard enough from to make an informed decision"

SlamGlam said:

GOOD POINT....ITS GLAD TO SEE someone on here who understands logic and reasoning

ccollin88 said:

R U kidding me? This is not NPGMC. Prince.org is the one place where people post how this song/record is great or how much this song/record sucks! That's what I like about it. Why are you straight up lying about you being the only one to say a song or CD sucks. There are two threads about Prince's worst record on right now. Why are you lying???

This is sooooo pathetic and sad. You do not support Prince, yet you choose to come here all the time. You believe Prince sucks but you can't even leave. HA HA HA HA!

[Edited 7/21/06 16:41pm]

ccollin88 said:

I don't ever recall Prince farting on record.

In any case, people should be free to like what they like without disdain. There is no barometer of taste.

I find 3121 to be his best album in 11 years, but in the end I know that's just my opinion. I can respect that others may want to jump off board for awhile.

wonder505 said:

I stay because i know somebody has to educate....and again I DO LOVE PRINCE.....I along with quincy jones understand that his biggest problem is himself...one day prince will come to this site and realize all that i say is true...not opinion...but truth...and then he wiill go back to doing good music....not music that sounds like he doing a soundtrack for a star trek episode!

ccollin88 said:

You do not love Prince. When you make comments like Prince needing to thank Beyonce for performing with him, that ain't love kid.

What are you educating us on? You have yet to school us on the art of musicianship, about arrangement and composing and how musicians use space and various elements to bring together a unique song.And don't insult Quincy Jones by placing yourself on his level. Quincey would have created a more intelligent thread and discuss music from an artistic standpoint.

However, all YOU talk about are hits, billboard charts, selling out venues, how Prince should thank Beyonce (WTF), about Jimmy, Terry and Janet list of hits, You lost all credibility with listing the Hollywood Walk of Fame comment and how his crowd is old, totally ignoring the young fans that do exist.

You're caught in a time warp. Prince is no longer and will never be the artist he once was to you. Move on...Here you go, your hero: www.janetjackson.
[Edited 7/21/06 17:04pm]

ccollin88 said:

okay now my turn to get in that ass...

If you understood anything, you'd know that however truthful your opinions may seem, Prince is not going to change for anyone but Prince. In our minds, he may fuck up his career and life time and time again... but he's got a 20+ year track record of that shit. And ultimately his personal and/or business affairs really are none of our business. Just enjoy and consume the music if you like it enough to do so. Unless you just jumped on the bandwagon you should know that by now. Neither Quincy nor Jam & Lewis are in a position to judge because it's not like they've produced anything truly worthwhile lately that lives up to the shit they produced in their heyday. At the end of the day all you can do is accept that you may not like everything he does but yeah you still love the little shit no matter what he does. No ones forcing your hand besides you. If you can't admit that then you are nothing more than a troll baiting fronter.
[Edited 7/21/06 17:18pm]

Prince is considered the greatest of all time to those who perceive him as such. Art is a state of heart and soul, and to one what might seem to be a "has been" or is no longer on top, to another might seem to be on top of his game and better than ever before. To state inclusively that Prince is no longer the greatest, or has lost his musicianship, is a judgement call, and not a statement of fact. Prince creates art, and as such, art is judged only by the one viewing/listening to the art and no two will ever judge it exactly the same, because art will never touch two people in exactly the same way.

To me, Prince is the greatest of all time because as I look back over his career, I can find music through all eras and styles that Prince has created that speaks to me, touches me heart and soul, and somehow seems to define so eloquently what I was feeling in that moment. To me, no one can play the guitar as beautifully as Prince. To me, no one can seem to touch every emotion with just a single note of that guitar, held so long that I feel myself drifting with that note, never wanting it to end, but yet not quite able to deny my excitement for that next note.

Through the years, Prince has been able to touch many people. There are those that long for the Prince of 20 years ago, wanting to see that "edge" that first defined Prince and raised eyebrows and caused government to put labels on albums as being "not recommended for children" and for others, this new Prince, touches them in the way that the old Prince touched the others. Prince's values have evolved throughout his career, and his music has reflected those changing values. For some of us, our values have changed, evolved, grown and become more adult along with Prince, and so his music reflects our values as well. For others, they long to not see the music reflect these new values, but would rather see the get down and get funky and dirty and nasty Prince and leave his new values out of the music. Neither is right, neither is wrong, because it's art, and art reflects not only the artist but the one perceiving the art. And what makes Prince the greatest in my humble opinion, is that Prince can always find someone who can look at what he has created and feel it with their heart and soul. While some may listen and hear only scribbles, others may listen and hear a masterpiece.

There is no way to definitely state what era Prince was the greatest in and have it be true for all people across the board, because we each perceive and feel things in our own way, and therefore what may touch us deeply, might not even scratch the surface of someone else.

ccollin88 said:

I asked you this question before and you ignored me so here it goes again, what makes you think that what you have to say about Prince and his music is going to get to Prince and if by some chance it does get to him, what makes you think he'll change his music and go your way? If Prince's stuff is so bad to you, then what do you suggest he'd do? Crawl under a rock and die? I'd bet you'd enjoy that too.

I also wanted to add that art is not defined by awards, or number sold, but rather by how it moves a person, or touches them. So to even try to state that someone has lost their artistic ability because they no longer sell a large amount, or sell out concert venues, or whatever, is also something that cannot define the artistic value of what one creates. Since art is a personal experience, and the value of that art to the one perceiving it is a personal value, one cannot define the greatness of that art through monetary gains/losses. I've seen some art pieces that look awful to me, but have sold for millions of dollars. I've also seen art pieces that really touch me, speak to me, make a statement to me, and the artist is either giving it away or selling it for a very low price. To me, the art piece that touches me and moves me and doesn't cost a lot, has more value than the one that looks awful to me and doesn't touch me in anyway but has sold for millions. So again, the value is given by the one listening, seeing, touching, experiencing, and not by industry numbers.

BSK3601 said:

Quincy Jones not in a position to judge? are u crazy? quincy got more musical talent than prince in his left nut..he has done jazz,pop,classical...you name it he has done it...HE can read music unlike some other so called geniuses which means he dont have to hire clare fisher to write string parts for him because he too dumb to learn the language of music.....

ccollin88 said:

Prince didn't read music either during the Dirty Mind/Controversy era by which you stated he was at the top of his game. If it didn't bother you then, why does it bother you now?

And the fact that he achieved so much as arranger, composer, writer, lyricist, engineer without reading music, by himself is an incredible accomplishment.
[Edited 7/21/06 18:49pm]

ccollin88 said:

Listen, you poor, poor waste of sperm. See, this is why children should not attempt to get involved in grown folk conversation. Nobody... not me, not you, not Quincy... NOBODY is in a position to judge Prince. That doesn't mean Quincy is not one of the worlds greatest musicians. That also doesn't necessarily mean that Prince isn't. That doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion that Prince's shit doesn't hit like it used too... shit if you look closely, most of us feel the same way. I'm saying that anyone who has been a Prince fan long enough knows that it's more engaging to watch wet paint dry than trying to determine where he went wrong in his career and why his shit doesn't hit like it used to. The bottom line is that as fans of the man's music, we're always going to be waiting and watching to see what the next move is. So there's no point in fronting like you could take Prince or leave him. Just enjoy the music for what it is, or don't. The rate that you contribute to this forum alone proves that he practically owns you.

And furthermore don't ever send me some bitch ass orgnote like that again. If you get your feelings hurt on the internet, then you need to go outside and play.

ccollin88 said:

Wait, so does that make Quincy Jones the greatest of all time in your mind? How did he leap ahead of the genius behind These Boots Are Made for Walkin?

You know, you would get the same response in this forum if you had started a thread claiming "Prince is tons more talented than JJ and TL and Quincy Jones." Your reasoning is flawed and your comparisons are without foundation. If you can't take a stand without some substantial reasoning...

Prince is considered the greatest of all time becuz he IS the greatest of all time!

ccollin88 said:

I am an adult, and therefore can accept accountability for my own actions
[Edited 7/22/06 6:34am]

ccollin88 said:

uh, that is what i was TRYING to tell you earlier ...just cause YOU dont feel the same about his music, doesn't make it THE written truth , tha is why we are individuals, have individual opinions, etc. i mean, you aren't going to convince a C&W fan that Prince is awesome , it all comes to different tastes, different likes and dislkes.

ZZZZZzzzzz Wake me when Ur done seems Ur the only one having fun zzzzzZZZZZ!!!

ccollin88 said:

Who told you Jam & Lewis started in 84"? They were jammin'in the group with Morris (Time) in 81".
[Edited 7/22/06 7:36am]

ccollin88 said:

Was actually between the ages 7-12, not high school...

Flowerz said:

and the fact that he was on the Basketball team in high school....

SlamGlam said:

...you are very right ..

okay maybe i was mistaken, but he did play in middle school

BSK3601 said:

Quincy jones has earned the right to judge prince and whomever he wants too.he is the DUDE after all.....I org noted you because i didnt want you to take it personal this ass whippin you getting tryin to debate my obviously superior higher order thinkin skills..
I am trying to bring you from a positon of darkness to light....I am baptist so I am taught to try and help the ignorant not ridicule....its okay to be ignorant...that can be fixed...but stupidity is forever....I dont want you to spend your life as a peasant slug believing everything you hear....Prince is great, but I as a keeper of ALL that is virtuous and true, WILL NOT sit by and listen to him fart on records without taking action...when you think about IT I'm like jesus...I'm taking one for the team....the prince lovers team

ccollin88 said:

1st Jam & Lewis and Prince are of the same sound but their career choices are in two different catagories. For one If you talking production " the indusrty Top 100 Billboard Etc" Jam and Lewis would be one up on Prince but you have to keep in mind that Prince and its easy to see and this why I love him doesn't care bout the "hits thang/Top 100" anymore I think he left that phase after purple Rain or maybe even Diamond and Pearls.It the rebel in him and I love that bout him.2nd the musicians wanting to work with him now we all know Mr Prince is very particular and a Gemini so I could see the sway a little to Jam and Lewis But Prince has the keys to Minneapolis and when his life ends and Jam & Lewis lives ends It will be Prince 1st Jam and Lewis 2nd remember they worked for him.I think any musician who wants to work with the somebody that will challenge them they will chose Prince if they want simple top 100 they will chose Jam and Lewis. 3rd your pt on releasing 2oo more songs are you makes them more prolific they are Producer and the top of the line for "Top 100" so it mat seem like it but you have remember we are talking bout somebody who has over 500 in the vault and would make Tupac and the way he releases material look like a Amatuer if he wanted to he invented the Game of releasing material way back with Warner Bros

PurplePupil said:

PEOPLE go to minneapolis to work with jam &lewis because they the best.....just think ....if Tamar had the opprtunity to choose between the two to produce her first record who do you think she would have chose?

ccollin88 said:

you have a pt see in terms of Producing I give Jam and lewis the Edge if you are looking for Top 100 But if you are a artist like Kelis Prince fits your style if Top 100 isn't your thang like I think kelis is not going for top 100

ccollin88 said:

Okay, its time to lock this thread. This guy has not answered any of the points raised intelligently or with any substance and now he thinks he's Jesus. Look at the gibberish nonsense above. This is stupid.
[Edited 7/22/06 9:28am]