jackmitz said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Yeah, that shit was hot, wasn't it? And you know what? He was introducing tracks into the setlist that he hadn't played in YEARS!!!! And the 2002 Celly def was off the chain too, wasn't it? It was definitely the best period of his live career since the 93-96 NPG days. The religious and preachy lyrics were a little fuckin' much, but musically and song selection-wise, shit wasn't bad at all back then.

He's been playing to arenas with all-hits shows and shit like that for the past 7 years. It's about time he goes back to playing some more intimate venues with a much stronger setlist. And do it with the remnants of the SOTT/Lovesexy band or the 93-96 NPG band. None of that boring jazz-lite Renato shit, either!!

Heh...I think Renato is a FANTASTIC player. His solos during the Monterux DVDs are simply mindblowing. In fact, I think he might be the best musician P's had since Lisa. Agree to disagree.

i would say fink was better and renato is in that vein

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

rialb said:

I don't know if there is a textbook definition of what exactly a "nostalgia act" is but I think you have to go back to the One Nite Alone era to see shows where he was playing a significant number of new songs. It is true that virtually every tour had many "classic" hits included but he used to play lots of new songs too. He doesn't really do that anymore. At best he might play one or two songs from his current album where in the past he would play half or more of his current album live. It's only fair to point out that there are less and less people that are interested in hearing his new songs so by not playing them he is giving (most) of the audience what they want but I do think that also means he is essentially a nostalgia act. Look at his latest album, he didn't even bother releasing it in his home country.

For my money I think he could have built a great tour around the Lotusflow3r album and used it as an opportunity to do a "rock" tour. Maybe get Sonny and Michael and tour as a power trio.

I said this earlier but I think the thing that frustrates some hardcore fans is that he has been primarily doing hits based tours aimed at the casual fan since 2004. It would be great if he dug a bit deeper and put together a tour aimed at the hardcore fan. He definitely has a deep enough catalog where he could do a radically different show each night and still satisfy most hardcore fans.

What hardcores don't seem to understand is Prince is headed to his twilight years, He has to think logically now. It is impossible to satisfy his hardcores all the time. Even he has said that his fans expect the unexpected from him all the time. He can satisfy the hardcores at an aftershow. But his main shows have to satisfy the casual fans or they will not come back. People need there money now. They are not going to spend there hard earn money anymore to hear him sing songs they never heard b4 .

The casuals want to hear Purple Rian,1999 etc at every show. Prince has made it tolerable for him by changing the arrangements and finding new ways to play them. I will not abandon him, Just because I heard & seen him play Purple Rain a thousand times.He has to earn his funds just like the next man. GIVE HIM A BREAK!!!!!

L4OATheOriginal said:

lezama said:

Except every review I've read thats been published has been extremely positive... I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

they are postive only cause they only mention when he does lgc or 1999..i didn't see one review mentioning when he was here in ny about when he did dreamer, welcome 2 america, gingerbread man ..none of that

I was at the MSG show in ny where he did the Gingerbread man and anyone who went there, well, let me speak for myself.... I can tell you it was a great number. the whole night was incredible.

wonder505 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

they are postive only cause they only mention when he does lgc or 1999..i didn't see one review mentioning when he was here in ny about when he did dreamer, welcome 2 america, gingerbread man ..none of that

I was at the MSG show in ny where he did the Gingerbread man and anyone who went there, well, let me speak for myself.... I can tell you it was a great number. the whole night was incredible.

well i meant the newspapers writting about the newer songs

Chatou7 said:

The problem with Purple Rain, 1999 and those ones is that they're the only ones played on the radio over and over ... how can you expect new fans to appreciate newer stuff to do so when that's all that's being played ??? again, on the morning show on tv this morning, they were taking about those sames ones 1999, when doves cry. ok ok stop complaining

They are having a contest (for those who live in the Montreal region, on Salut Bonjour) where we can win a loge for 15 people (I think) with food drink and all, but these loges are high in the stadium ... I guess seats in the reds are better seats ...

Anyhow, only 3 days to go

When I was interested in Prince, I did what most do when discovering a new artist. i sought out all his music to become more acquainted with him. there are a lot of young and newer fans, especially here on the Org and they themselves speak of their curiousity and how they started their collection when they got into Prince, so i think Prince's newer song will be heard regardless.

[Edited 11/29/11 18:13pm]

L4OATheOriginal said:

wonder505 said:

I was at the MSG show in ny where he did the Gingerbread man and anyone who went there, well, let me speak for myself.... I can tell you it was a great number. the whole night was incredible.

well i meant the newspapers writting about the newer songs

as someone who was there in person and experienced the whole night along with about 15 others i met, i don't think that means anything.

wonder505 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

well i meant the newspapers writting about the newer songs

as someone who was there in person and experienced the whole night along with about 15 others i met, i don't think that means anything.

i was there that night also and that was the only highlight 4 me that night ..now the jan show was off da chain

L4OATheOriginal said:

lezama said:

Except every review I've read thats been published has been extremely positive... I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

they are postive only cause they only mention when he does lgc or 1999..i didn't see one review mentioning when he was here in ny about when he did dreamer, welcome 2 america, gingerbread man ..none of that

Sure, but my point it that the man's said it already before about when he plays stadium shows that he's not gonna upset the masses by playing a bunch of stuff they don't know. The "masses" pay that money to hear the tunes that they know. He can wow a music critic or music reporter playing obscure songs in small clubs in LA (like he did a few months ago) because they appreciate good music and good musicianship regardless of whether they know the songs or not. Thats not however, and unfortunatly, what the majority of large stadium concert going ticketholders are there to see.

lezama said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

they are postive only cause they only mention when he does lgc or 1999..i didn't see one review mentioning when he was here in ny about when he did dreamer, welcome 2 america, gingerbread man ..none of that

Sure, but my point it that the man's said it already before about when he plays stadium shows that he's not gonna upset the masses by playing a bunch of stuff they don't know. The "masses" pay that money to hear the tunes that they know. He can wow a music critic or music reporter playing obscure songs in small clubs in LA (like he did a few months ago) because they appreciate good music and good musicianship regardless of whether they know the songs or not. Thats not however, and unfortunatly, what the majority of large stadium concert going ticketholders are there to see.

Maybe that is why he likes to play at festivals nowadays? He knows that the audiance at Montreux or North Sea and other festivals are music lovers. And will apreciate him as a musician, whether they know the songs or not.

I think that is also why he has been so brilliant at these festivals. Because the audiance was not there to see his hits, they were there to see a lot of different musicians because the apreciate music not the stardom.

I have had the honor and privilege to experience 5 of the 6 NJ/NYC shows from the beginning of the Welcome to America Tour. I had floor seats for 4 of the 5 shows I saw. Furthermore, the original show had gotten canceled which was set to begin on Dec. 14th, I also had floor seats to that one but apparently there weren't enough ticket sales to have it happen. All of the shows were pretty amazing, except for the first show on Dec. 15th at the Izod Center. The opening act played to Finding Nemo on the big screens, the crowd got very restless and Prince seemed a bit rusty after playing only about 70 minutes, there were many empty sections in the upper levels and the night ended very early. I felt that was the worse show I had seen, as the rest of the concerts were much better, the second night at the Izod was something to have seen to believe, better opening act, multiple encores, passionate performance by Prince, truly amazing experience. The Madison Square Garden shows were also legendary, Aside from Prince performing as if it were the 1980s all over again, his energy levels were high, His singing was incredible, effortlessly hitting high notes in songs such Adore and Scandalous, dancing to Kiss as if he were in his 20's, and being magical on guitar during encores of Little Red Corvette and Purple Rain, to having Sinbad entertain the crowd at the start, to seeing Prince kick Kim Kardashian off stage, serenading Leighton Meester and having Clo Green as an opening act at the last NYC show Feb. 7th. Excellent, real music by real musicians.

When I Found out Prince was going to be in Canada, I figured I would again go and experience amazing performances and after having spent a bit of money to travel to another country and obtain floor seats to the shows, I was sure I would have a blast and it would all be worth it. In Toronto on Friday Nov. 25th the show was set to begin at 8pm. Ticket holders were standing outside the Air Canada Centre until about a quarter to eight. The show finally started at 9pm after having the house lights turn on and off 3 times prior to that. Prince came out and the crowd, which seemed tired of waiting, rose to their feet and the funkfest began. Prince played a nice setlist and even covered many other songs. Maceo Parker was also there and I've gotten used to hearing him jam alongside Prince from the NYC shows. Prince played from 9 pm - 12:15 am and although he didn't play staples such as The Beautiful Ones, Do Me Baby, Scandalous, and despite having no opening act, I felt the show was good, I had felt a true sense of passion in his performance; their were multiple encores, he thanked the crowd for being there with him, showed love to his fans and felt embraced by them. A real class act and a decent show.

I was sure the second show in Toronto would be just as good if not better, we actually got allowed inside the Air Canada Centre much earlier than the night before. The show started a few minutes earlier than the prior night. The Welcome 2 Shelby concert had begun. Prince started the show with the song Gold, which seemed like a nice change from the usual, But I knew something was not right when he performed Purple Rain as the second song. It was all downhill from there. Usually he performs Purple Rain as an encore after having had a break or nearing the end of the concert, the crowd begins roaring and gets back up to their feet and begins wooing before Prince says, "I never meant to cause you any sorrow." This did not happen Saturday night in Toronto, the whole night seemed rushed as he went through all of his hits from the start of the show. I don't think he sang most of his songs in their entirety. A majority of the show seemed as though they were covers of non-Prince music, which is ok as long as its not 2/3rds of his performance or a tribute to Shelby. He constantly praised her in his songs, singing things such as in the song Raspberry Beret, "Shelby Johnson's Farm" and in the song Nothing Compares 2 You, he sang "All the flowers that you planted in North Carolina" referring to Shelby yet again. Constantly hearing her yell "Put Yo Hands Up", Her voice overpowers his and he had to ask if everyone could hear him at some point near the beginning of the show. This man has a damn near obsession with Shelby. I do not understand, she's no Whitney Houston. He didn't sing passionately, a bland performance, like he was just there to get a paycheck and I honestly feel bad for myself and everyone else who had to be there on that night, Especially first time Prince concert goers, who wouldn't know the difference. Aside from playing covers he wasted alot of time with his chants of, oooohhh whooaaaa wooahhh wooahh Heeee heeee. What the hell. Only 2 encores. It ended very early, no opening act, at some point, he said, "and now I want to introduce to the stage", walked over to the circle looked down the stairs saw nobody there and said, "my guitar" at which point he walked back over to center stage and began playing, Where was Maceo Parker? Not there.
I understand some people may be happy with his performance on Saturday night. But after having experienced a few good shows, one can tell when their seeing a half-hearted effort.
I thought I seen the worse show back in Jersey the first night of Welcome 2 America, but after Toronto on Saturday night I can't even compare, its was like an all time low for Prince. I love Prince as an artist, his music is amazing, but Saturday night was a real disappointment. The show ended a full hour earlier than Friday nights opener. Thousands of fans still in their seats, the Air Canada Centre was still packed like a sardine can. While the crowd was chanting "eh eh eh" and "Encore Please" until they lost their voices, it was sad to hear someone say lets go Hun they are taking apart the drums. Were not deranged fans, were not trying to bash Prince or the band and money or curfew had nothing to do with this. Just very disappointed with Saturday night and after all that happened to walk out of the Air Canada Centre and see 5 tractor trailers ready to disassemble the stage on an early night at the expense of thousands still waiting in the arena was appalling.

[img:$uid]http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n487/j123prince/P1010332.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n487/j123prince/P1010330.jpg[/img:$uid]

Who's the other huge act still going strong? I'm curious because I really LOVE musicians that have vital 20+ year careers - I think they have a lot of wisdom about the biz and yes, it's SUPER hard to be that successful for so long. What's great is when an act can play like 15+ songs where EVERYONE in a stadium knows EVERY lyric - how amazing is it to achieve that, to know that you have impacted that many lives with your art? You're a musician - wouldn't that be amazing?

Yes it is...think of what was 2010/11s highest grossing tour, there's your answer

And out of 24 songs they play a night, 15 are "entire stadium sing a longs"

And yes, they play alot - ALOT - of the old hits. How do you NOT play alot of your old hits when you've got 30 years, more Grammys than you can count, and are adored by millions for those very same hits?

YOU PLAY THE HITS. And, of course, sprinkle in some rarities and try and promote your new album a bit.

Anyone saying anything else is just being bone-selfish and guess what the majority want the formula indicated above.

Of course, if someone wants to construct their own private show centered around whatever era of Prince they deem to be "the best" (huge subjective laugh here), feel free to hire him privately yourself, put your money where your mouth is! lmao

acrobat70 said:

Who's the other huge act still going strong? I'm curious because I really LOVE musicians that have vital 20+ year careers - I think they have a lot of wisdom about the biz and yes, it's SUPER hard to be that successful for so long. What's great is when an act can play like 15+ songs where EVERYONE in a stadium knows EVERY lyric - how amazing is it to achieve that, to know that you have impacted that many lives with your art? You're a musician - wouldn't that be amazing?

Yes it is...think of what was 2010/11s highest grossing tour, there's your answer

And out of 24 songs they play a night, 15 are "entire stadium sing a longs"

And yes, they play alot - ALOT - of the old hits. How do you NOT play alot of your old hits when you've got 30 years, more Grammys than you can count, and are adored by millions for those very same hits?

YOU PLAY THE HITS. And, of course, sprinkle in some rarities and try and promote your new album a bit.

Anyone saying anything else is just being bone-selfish and guess what the majority want the formula indicated above.

Of course, if someone wants to construct their own private show centered around whatever era of Prince they deem to be "the best" (huge subjective laugh here), feel free to hire him privately yourself, put your money where your mouth is! lmao

so that leaves 9 new songs ..and all of the highlighted sections, is this anywhere near close 2 what prince is doing live these days?

acrobat70 said:

Who's the other huge act still going strong? I'm curious because I really LOVE musicians that have vital 20+ year careers - I think they have a lot of wisdom about the biz and yes, it's SUPER hard to be that successful for so long. What's great is when an act can play like 15+ songs where EVERYONE in a stadium knows EVERY lyric - how amazing is it to achieve that, to know that you have impacted that many lives with your art? You're a musician - wouldn't that be amazing?

Yes it is...think of what was 2010/11s highest grossing tour, there's your answer

And out of 24 songs they play a night, 15 are "entire stadium sing a longs"

And yes, they play alot - ALOT - of the old hits. How do you NOT play alot of your old hits when you've got 30 years, more Grammys than you can count, and are adored by millions for those very same hits?

YOU PLAY THE HITS. And, of course, sprinkle in some rarities and try and promote your new album a bit.

Anyone saying anything else is just being bone-selfish and guess what the majority want the formula indicated above.

Of course, if someone wants to construct their own private show centered around whatever era of Prince they deem to be "the best" (huge subjective laugh here), feel free to hire him privately yourself, put your money where your mouth is! lmao

So, Bon Jovi or U2? But Bon Jovi did a greatest hits tour right? I'm sure that U2 didn't(well, they played lots of their hits, but the tour itself was mostly the support their album No line on the horizon..)

And I agree of course when an artist plays in a stadium or a big arena they need to play hits. But I what I said earlier in the topic the idea of do 50 % of your hits and 50 % of other unreleased or album tracks is best way to put a setlist together. Because the casual fans will be happy and diehard fans. Prince never mentioned that this would be a greatest hits tour. If it was , he should called ''GREATEST HITS TOUR 2011'' lol.

Anyway I'm happy that Prince is still performing and that his shows are so amazing, cuz they are. But the setlists can be better imo.

j123 whined and bawled and said:

I understand some people may be happy with his performance on Saturday night. But after having experienced a few good shows, one can tell when their seeing a half-hearted effort.
I thought I seen the worse show back in Jersey the first night of Welcome 2 America, but after Toronto on Saturday night I can't even compare, its was like an all time low for Prince. I love Prince as an artist, his music is amazing, but Saturday night was a real disappointment. The show ended a full hour earlier than Friday nights opener. Thousands of fans still in their seats, the Air Canada Centre was still packed like a sardine can. While the crowd was chanting "eh eh eh" and "Encore Please" until they lost their voices, it was sad to hear someone say lets go Hun they are taking apart the drums. Were not deranged fans, were not trying to bash Prince or the band and money or curfew had nothing to do with this. Just very disappointed with Saturday night and after all that happened to walk out of the Air Canada Centre and see 5 tractor trailers ready to disassemble the stage on an early night at the expense of thousands still waiting in the arena was appalling.

Let's get some things cleared up for the clearly delusional posters here: Prince has a show of approximately 3 hours. Period. Saturday's show didn't end a full hour earlier, it ended at 11:15 after having begun at 8:40. I have phone records to and from friends in other parts of the building to prove it.

On Friday, he went on at 9:00 and left the stage last at 12:03.

Fridays show (incl breaks): 3:03

Saturdays show (incl fewer breaks): 2:35

So Saturdays show was 25 minutes shorter. In that extra 25 minutes Friday, it should be noted that there were more breaks.

Having cleared that up, here's some things you should know about live concert production:

1. Most concerts at ACC (and Rogers Centre) are permitted by city by-law to run until 11:00 PM or VERY shortly thereafter. Bands/production companies risk significant fines every time they run over.

2. All the workers - especially the police - the concessions staff, the lighting, house technical support, all these people that go into making the show run smoothly - are contracted to work at the venue to work until a certain time. They are not contracted to work "until whatever time the band feels like finishing". That's not how it goes. They are also unionized, and their contracts stipulate overtime rates.

3. Prince's band, backup singers, Maceo, all of them, have contracts which no doubt stipulate that they will play shows of a given length on any given show. They are doing a job. They're likely not obligated to play 100 songs if Prince so chooses. They are also human beings, not robots.

4. Those trucks you saw outside? Company called Upstaging. I know a few of the drivers. They are also contracted to arrive at the loading docks at a certain time, get loaded out, and truck on out to the next venue upon a designated schedule. The security teams that escort them onto properties and guard them while they are there are also contracted for certain times.

5. Last but not least, Prince himself is under contract with Live Nation to operate according to their rules and likely has clauses that force him to absorb losses that are a result of them getting fined for his behavior (lewd, running late, not showing, playing beyond city limits, etc etc)

Only touched on a few factors that go into running a production like this. This isn't showing up at Lee's Palace and you and the owner deciding if you're going to play until 1:30 am or 2:00 am. It doesn't work like that.

Here is a likely situation of what happened at these two shows - again, the show is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 hrs long - which, I really have to tell you, is FUCKING REMARKABLE in this day and age, most shows are just over 2 hrs long if that:

On Friday, some combination of events led to the show starting later than originally billeted. Maybe the venue didn't fill right at 8, maybe the box office was still selling tickets, maybe there was a production issue, who knows. At any rate, the show starts at 9 and Prince says well we are doing our show nonetheless, and it runs till midnight. MIDNIGHT at the ACC. I guarantee you that he was either fined, or given a very strong warning about not repeating this stunt the next night.

So Saturday he comes in and tries to start the show early, meanwhile people are STILL not all in their seats by 8 PM, in alot of cases probably because the people from Friday reported that the show doesn't actually start till 9, and so tries to stretch it to 8:30 or so. He still has a show of approx 3 hrs he wants to put on, and he's now operating under strict orders that he finish as close to 11 as possible.

So he cuts a couple of songs, removes/shortens a break or two, and starts a bit earlier, so as to finish closer to contracted time. As a result, we get 25 minutes less time from start to finish, total.

What should he have done? Go overtime again on Saturday? Why? The entire two rows in front of me almost, left after the main set was done. During the 1st encore, people were streaming out. DURING THE ENCORE! And speaking of singing along, 80% of the audience couldn't even managed the falsettos for Gold. And for god's sake, people sitting down during slow jams? Look - a concert is a two-way contract between the artist and the crowd and frankly Toronto audiences outright suck in so many ways it's not even funny. I'd sooner see a concert in Montreal or some other city, than Toronto. We're so spoiled and snobby. So you're Prince, you're onstage at 11:10 risking fines and people are streaming out and the ones that remain can barely sing your songs with you? You tell me that you're doing any more than a couple numbers and then out. You're not.

Stop the bellyaching and whining it's completely fucking ridiculous and truly noone including the other 35,000 people who saw him here last weekend gives a shit what 9 people are bitching about on The Internet.

/rant

xLiberiangirl said:

So, Bon Jovi or U2? But Bon Jovi did a greatest hits tour right? I'm sure that U2 didn't(well, they played lots of their hits, but the tour itself was mostly the support their album No line on the horizon..)

Bon Jovi was greatest hits because they haven't released anything worth listening to since the 80s.

U2 was promoting No Line On The Horizon yet by the end of the tour they played 2 *maybe* 3 songs from the current album per night. Very hit-heavy.

I was actually surprised at Prince's setlist, looking at it over the last few shows. Very nice variety. I would have loved to hear Insatiable but then everyone who knows that stuff might have blown their collective loads ..orgy time! lol

L4OATheOriginal said:

so that leaves 9 new songs ..and all of the highlighted sections, is this anywhere near close 2 what prince is doing live these days?

No, it didn't leave 9 new songs. It left 2 or possibly 3. One was played slammed in between two other hits so people couldn't use it for a beer break, and the other was the last song of the night and half the place had left or was leaving. The rest, while not hits, were fan favorites or rarities from yesteryear. And/or a cover or two. OMG A COVER OR TWO!!! THE HORROR!!!!!!

[Edited 11/30/11 7:11am]

acrobat70 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

so that leaves 9 new songs ..and all of the highlighted sections, is this anywhere near close 2 what prince is doing live these days?

No, it didn't leave 9 new songs. It left 2 or possibly 3. One was played slammed in between two other hits so people couldn't use it for a beer break, and the other was the last song of the night and half the place had left or was leaving. The rest, while not hits, were fan favorites or rarities from yesteryear. And/or a cover or two. OMG A COVER OR TWO!!! THE HORROR!!!!!!

[Edited 11/30/11 7:11am]

so what's the problem with doing a 50/50 split then? but doing a show with one cover is fine for someone like prince ..not 4-5 like he's been doing

acrobat70 said:

xLiberiangirl said:

So, Bon Jovi or U2? But Bon Jovi did a greatest hits tour right? I'm sure that U2 didn't(well, they played lots of their hits, but the tour itself was mostly the support their album No line on the horizon..)

Bon Jovi was greatest hits because they haven't released anything worth listening to since the 80s.

U2 was promoting No Line On The Horizon yet by the end of the tour they played 2 *maybe* 3 songs from the current album per night. Very hit-heavy.

I was actually surprised at Prince's setlist, looking at it over the last few shows. Very nice variety. I would have loved to hear Insatiable but then everyone who knows that stuff might have blown their collective loads ..orgy time! lol

I agree.

Anyway yes, about U2 that's true. But they also change their setlists(not as much as Prince does though!!!) but they also did some songs they haven't done in years.

L4OATheOriginal said:

acrobat70 said:

No, it didn't leave 9 new songs. It left 2 or possibly 3. One was played slammed in between two other hits so people couldn't use it for a beer break, and the other was the last song of the night and half the place had left or was leaving. The rest, while not hits, were fan favorites or rarities from yesteryear. And/or a cover or two. OMG A COVER OR TWO!!! THE HORROR!!!!!!

[Edited 11/30/11 7:11am]

so what's the problem with doing a 50/50 split then? but doing a show with one cover is fine for someone like prince ..not 4-5 like he's been doing

I agree. Covers are fine with me. But not more than 3 in one show please. And also he does some covers he has done over and over again last couple of years(Play that funky music, all Sly & family stone stuff)

[Edited 11/30/11 7:25am]

xLiberiangirl said:

acrobat70 said:

Bon Jovi was greatest hits because they haven't released anything worth listening to since the 80s.

U2 was promoting No Line On The Horizon yet by the end of the tour they played 2 *maybe* 3 songs from the current album per night. Very hit-heavy.

I was actually surprised at Prince's setlist, looking at it over the last few shows. Very nice variety. I would have loved to hear Insatiable but then everyone who knows that stuff might have blown their collective loads ..orgy time! lol

Anyway yes, about U2 that's true. But they also change their setlists(not as much as Prince does though!!!) but they also did some songs they haven't done in years.

Ha...I hear you although noone who has seen U2 more than 3 times over the last 3 tours would agree with you. VERY static setlist, few changes.

L4OATheOriginal said:

so what's the problem with doing a 50/50 split then? but doing a show with one cover is fine for someone like prince ..not 4-5 like he's been doing

What I'm saying is that it's not reasonable to expect a 50/50 split with an artist who has been around for 30 years, especially if the majority of their hits belong to a certain decade. (or with a bit of bleed over into the next one, the 90s)

acrobat70 said:

j123 whined and bawled and said:

I understand some people may be happy with his performance on Saturday night. But after having experienced a few good shows, one can tell when their seeing a half-hearted effort.
I thought I seen the worse show back in Jersey the first night of Welcome 2 America, but after Toronto on Saturday night I can't even compare, its was like an all time low for Prince. I love Prince as an artist, his music is amazing, but Saturday night was a real disappointment. The show ended a full hour earlier than Friday nights opener. Thousands of fans still in their seats, the Air Canada Centre was still packed like a sardine can. While the crowd was chanting "eh eh eh" and "Encore Please" until they lost their voices, it was sad to hear someone say lets go Hun they are taking apart the drums. Were not deranged fans, were not trying to bash Prince or the band and money or curfew had nothing to do with this. Just very disappointed with Saturday night and after all that happened to walk out of the Air Canada Centre and see 5 tractor trailers ready to disassemble the stage on an early night at the expense of thousands still waiting in the arena was appalling.

Let's get some things cleared up for the clearly delusional posters here: Prince has a show of approximately 3 hours. Period. Saturday's show didn't end a full hour earlier, it ended at 11:15 after having begun at 8:40. I have phone records to and from friends in other parts of the building to prove it.

On Friday, he went on at 9:00 and left the stage last at 12:03.

Fridays show (incl breaks): 3:03

Saturdays show (incl fewer breaks): 2:35

So Saturdays show was 25 minutes shorter. In that extra 25 minutes Friday, it should be noted that there were more breaks.

Having cleared that up, here's some things you should know about live concert production:

1. Most concerts at ACC (and Rogers Centre) are permitted by city by-law to run until 11:00 PM or VERY shortly thereafter. Bands/production companies risk significant fines every time they run over.

2. All the workers - especially the police - the concessions staff, the lighting, house technical support, all these people that go into making the show run smoothly - are contracted to work at the venue to work until a certain time. They are not contracted to work "until whatever time the band feels like finishing". That's not how it goes. They are also unionized, and their contracts stipulate overtime rates.

3. Prince's band, backup singers, Maceo, all of them, have contracts which no doubt stipulate that they will play shows of a given length on any given show. They are doing a job. They're likely not obligated to play 100 songs if Prince so chooses. They are also human beings, not robots.

4. Those trucks you saw outside? Company called Upstaging. I know a few of the drivers. They are also contracted to arrive at the loading docks at a certain time, get loaded out, and truck on out to the next venue upon a designated schedule. The security teams that escort them onto properties and guard them while they are there are also contracted for certain times.

5. Last but not least, Prince himself is under contract with Live Nation to operate according to their rules and likely has clauses that force him to absorb losses that are a result of them getting fined for his behavior (lewd, running late, not showing, playing beyond city limits, etc etc)

Only touched on a few factors that go into running a production like this. This isn't showing up at Lee's Palace and you and the owner deciding if you're going to play until 1:30 am or 2:00 am. It doesn't work like that.

Here is a likely situation of what happened at these two shows - again, the show is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 hrs long - which, I really have to tell you, is FUCKING REMARKABLE in this day and age, most shows are just over 2 hrs long if that:

On Friday, some combination of events led to the show starting later than originally billeted. Maybe the venue didn't fill right at 8, maybe the box office was still selling tickets, maybe there was a production issue, who knows. At any rate, the show starts at 9 and Prince says well we are doing our show nonetheless, and it runs till midnight. MIDNIGHT at the ACC. I guarantee you that he was either fined, or given a very strong warning about not repeating this stunt the next night.

So Saturday he comes in and tries to start the show early, meanwhile people are STILL not all in their seats by 8 PM, in alot of cases probably because the people from Friday reported that the show doesn't actually start till 9, and so tries to stretch it to 8:30 or so. He still has a show of approx 3 hrs he wants to put on, and he's now operating under strict orders that he finish as close to 11 as possible.

So he cuts a couple of songs, removes/shortens a break or two, and starts a bit earlier, so as to finish closer to contracted time. As a result, we get 25 minutes less time from start to finish, total.

What should he have done? Go overtime again on Saturday? Why? The entire two rows in front of me almost, left after the main set was done. During the 1st encore, people were streaming out. DURING THE ENCORE! And speaking of singing along, 80% of the audience couldn't even managed the falsettos for Gold. And for god's sake, people sitting down during slow jams? Look - a concert is a two-way contract between the artist and the crowd and frankly Toronto audiences outright suck in so many ways it's not even funny. I'd sooner see a concert in Montreal or some other city, than Toronto. We're so spoiled and snobby. So you're Prince, you're onstage at 11:10 risking fines and people are streaming out and the ones that remain can barely sing your songs with you? You tell me that you're doing any more than a couple numbers and then out. You're not.

Stop the bellyaching and whining it's completely fucking ridiculous and truly noone including the other 35,000 people who saw him here last weekend gives a shit what 9 people are bitching about on The Internet.

/rant

Exactly! People never think of the politics behind the scenes that go into a a big production like that. They blame Prince 4 everything. Oh he talked to Shelby too much . He let Shelby sing too much. He cut this song short. He left too early. All they care about is why he didn't do this like he did last night.

There is so much that goes into pulling a concert. The curfews etc..Very stressful.

acrobat70 said:

Who's the other huge act still going strong? I'm curious because I really LOVE musicians that have vital 20+ year careers - I think they have a lot of wisdom about the biz and yes, it's SUPER hard to be that successful for so long. What's great is when an act can play like 15+ songs where EVERYONE in a stadium knows EVERY lyric - how amazing is it to achieve that, to know that you have impacted that many lives with your art? You're a musician - wouldn't that be amazing?

Yes it is...think of what was 2010/11s highest grossing tour, there's your answer

And out of 24 songs they play a night, 15 are "entire stadium sing a longs"

And yes, they play alot - ALOT - of the old hits. How do you NOT play alot of your old hits when you've got 30 years, more Grammys than you can count, and are adored by millions for those very same hits?

YOU PLAY THE HITS. And, of course, sprinkle in some rarities and try and promote your new album a bit.

Anyone saying anything else is just being bone-selfish and guess what the majority want the formula indicated above.

Of course, if someone wants to construct their own private show centered around whatever era of Prince they deem to be "the best" (huge subjective laugh here), feel free to hire him privately yourself, put your money where your mouth is! lmao

More Grammys than you can count? He's got 6 or 7. How's that so high that it's nearly uncountable???

acrobat70 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

so what's the problem with doing a 50/50 split then? but doing a show with one cover is fine for someone like prince ..not 4-5 like he's been doing

What I'm saying is that it's not reasonable to expect a 50/50 split with an artist who has been around for 30 years, especially if the majority of their hits belong to a certain decade. (or with a bit of bleed over into the next one, the 90s)

The Duran Duran concert in L.A. last month was basically a 50/50 split - one hit, one song off of the new album, one hit, one new song, etc. & 2 hits for encores. One cover - a bit of "Relax" in the middle of "Wild Boys." Ran exactly 2 hrs. On at 9 sharp, done a little after 11. But then it wasn't an arena of 20,000, nor was it a small club. The openers The Neon Trees were clearly ecstatic to be playing such a "large" venue - Nokia Theater (larger than Club Nokia where O7 played).

The crowd was very happy & satisfied. The 35+ yr old ladies - well if any one of those DD guys said to them "let's go" they're panties would be off in a second. The guys - well, some were brought by wives/GFs and some actually think DD are a good band and put on a good show or like the new album. The youngsters - the ones I talked to were brought by a mom/aunt/etc. but actually like the new album! The oldies were new to them! I thought the 50/50 split was good, there were more oldies or obscure gems that they could have played (nothing from 7 & the Ragged Tiger, they're biggest seller; no "Chauffeur" or other esoteric stuff they would play at Coachella), but their new songs sounded so much better live than they did on Spotify that I was moved to BUY the album.

Anyway, yes, some fans on the org can be a bit too harsh or unrealistic. Perhaps in a venue smaller than an arena or stadium, where there are less "casual" fans and more fans like the DD fans, Prince could venture away from the standard hits.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

More Grammys than you can count? He's got 6 or 7. How's that so high that it's nearly uncountable???

Maybe you should read the entire context. We were talking about another band by way of comparison.

artist76 said:

The Duran Duran concert in L.A. last month was basically a 50/50 split -

I realize that much of your post is trying to reach a middle ground, and it's not lost on me, but honestly a band like Duran Duran, who basically had nothing of any consequence to listen to for over 15 years, in a concert hall is about a gazillion times different of an animal than Prince or U2 in an arena or stadium. It's really really different.

acrobat70 said:

artist76 said:

The Duran Duran concert in L.A. last month was basically a 50/50 split -

I realize that much of your post is trying to reach a middle ground, and it's not lost on me, but honestly a band like Duran Duran, who basically had nothing of any consequence to listen to for over 15 years, in a concert hall is about a gazillion times different of an animal than Prince or U2 in an arena or stadium. It's really really different.

I'm not comparing the acts - I'm just saying that an arena is different than a smaller venue. Perhaps in a smaller venue, you could do newer stuff because there's less casual fans.

acrobat70 said:

artist76 said:

The Duran Duran concert in L.A. last month was basically a 50/50 split -

I realize that much of your post is trying to reach a middle ground, and it's not lost on me, but honestly a band like Duran Duran, who basically had nothing of any consequence to listen to for over 15 years, in a concert hall is about a gazillion times different of an animal than Prince or U2 in an arena or stadium. It's really really different.

Ugh, I hate to do this, but I have a friend here over my shoulder who's not on the org and wants to mention that whether DD had "nothing of consequence to listen to for over 15 years" is a matter of opinion, many would disagree, and there are plenty of folks (even on the org I might add) who think Prince hasn't had anything of consequence for 15 yrs.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not comparing acts (I personally do think Prince is "better"; U2, not so much). My point is that if you want to fill an arena, you've got to play hits, so I agree with you that 50/50 split is unrealistic in that setting, but then an alternative would be smaller venues full of people who are really interested in you and want to hear your new music.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

acrobat70 said:

Let's get some things cleared up for the clearly delusional posters here: Prince has a show of approximately 3 hours. Period. Saturday's show didn't end a full hour earlier, it ended at 11:15 after having begun at 8:40. I have phone records to and from friends in other parts of the building to prove it.

On Friday, he went on at 9:00 and left the stage last at 12:03.

Fridays show (incl breaks): 3:03

Saturdays show (incl fewer breaks): 2:35

So Saturdays show was 25 minutes shorter. In that extra 25 minutes Friday, it should be noted that there were more breaks.

Having cleared that up, here's some things you should know about live concert production:

1. Most concerts at ACC (and Rogers Centre) are permitted by city by-law to run until 11:00 PM or VERY shortly thereafter. Bands/production companies risk significant fines every time they run over.

2. All the workers - especially the police - the concessions staff, the lighting, house technical support, all these people that go into making the show run smoothly - are contracted to work at the venue to work until a certain time. They are not contracted to work "until whatever time the band feels like finishing". That's not how it goes. They are also unionized, and their contracts stipulate overtime rates.

3. Prince's band, backup singers, Maceo, all of them, have contracts which no doubt stipulate that they will play shows of a given length on any given show. They are doing a job. They're likely not obligated to play 100 songs if Prince so chooses. They are also human beings, not robots.

4. Those trucks you saw outside? Company called Upstaging. I know a few of the drivers. They are also contracted to arrive at the loading docks at a certain time, get loaded out, and truck on out to the next venue upon a designated schedule. The security teams that escort them onto properties and guard them while they are there are also contracted for certain times.

5. Last but not least, Prince himself is under contract with Live Nation to operate according to their rules and likely has clauses that force him to absorb losses that are a result of them getting fined for his behavior (lewd, running late, not showing, playing beyond city limits, etc etc)

Only touched on a few factors that go into running a production like this. This isn't showing up at Lee's Palace and you and the owner deciding if you're going to play until 1:30 am or 2:00 am. It doesn't work like that.

Here is a likely situation of what happened at these two shows - again, the show is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 hrs long - which, I really have to tell you, is FUCKING REMARKABLE in this day and age, most shows are just over 2 hrs long if that:

On Friday, some combination of events led to the show starting later than originally billeted. Maybe the venue didn't fill right at 8, maybe the box office was still selling tickets, maybe there was a production issue, who knows. At any rate, the show starts at 9 and Prince says well we are doing our show nonetheless, and it runs till midnight. MIDNIGHT at the ACC. I guarantee you that he was either fined, or given a very strong warning about not repeating this stunt the next night.

So Saturday he comes in and tries to start the show early, meanwhile people are STILL not all in their seats by 8 PM, in alot of cases probably because the people from Friday reported that the show doesn't actually start till 9, and so tries to stretch it to 8:30 or so. He still has a show of approx 3 hrs he wants to put on, and he's now operating under strict orders that he finish as close to 11 as possible.

So he cuts a couple of songs, removes/shortens a break or two, and starts a bit earlier, so as to finish closer to contracted time. As a result, we get 25 minutes less time from start to finish, total.

What should he have done? Go overtime again on Saturday? Why? The entire two rows in front of me almost, left after the main set was done. During the 1st encore, people were streaming out. DURING THE ENCORE! And speaking of singing along, 80% of the audience couldn't even managed the falsettos for Gold. And for god's sake, people sitting down during slow jams? Look - a concert is a two-way contract between the artist and the crowd and frankly Toronto audiences outright suck in so many ways it's not even funny. I'd sooner see a concert in Montreal or some other city, than Toronto. We're so spoiled and snobby. So you're Prince, you're onstage at 11:10 risking fines and people are streaming out and the ones that remain can barely sing your songs with you? You tell me that you're doing any more than a couple numbers and then out. You're not.

Stop the bellyaching and whining it's completely fucking ridiculous and truly noone including the other 35,000 people who saw him here last weekend gives a shit what 9 people are bitching about on The Internet.

/rant

Exactly! People never think of the politics behind the scenes that go into a a big production like that. They blame Prince 4 everything. Oh he talked to Shelby too much . He let Shelby sing too much. He cut this song short. He left too early. All they care about is why he didn't do this like he did last night.

There is so much that goes into pulling a concert. The curfews etc..Very stressful.

Yes, you are right. It's a good reminder for us.

It's job, and Prince is experienced enough to do it according plan. It's a good thing the audiance forgets about the hard work. Because an entertainer should not show hardship to the audiance.

It's good to get reminded though when getting to judgemental about these kind of concerts.

Rihanna was an hour late for her concert in Arnhem. A lot of people had to leave half way her concert to be able to catch the last train back home. Or stayed and had to pay a LOT of money to pay for a taxi to bring them home.

Also all the staff had to get paid extra for working that extra hour.

All those extra costs were for Rihanna. She got a fine on top of that, due to contract breach.

She will remember her Dutch gig for years. Not only because her being late was very expensive for her, also because she had her fans waiting for her so long, that they were in a very negative mood when she arrived and therefore were not very enthusiastic about her concert.

O well, so artists live and learn. She probably won't do that again.

Prince isn't doing things like that because he knows better.

dJJ said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Exactly! People never think of the politics behind the scenes that go into a a big production like that. They blame Prince 4 everything. Oh he talked to Shelby too much . He let Shelby sing too much. He cut this song short. He left too early. All they care about is why he didn't do this like he did last night.

There is so much that goes into pulling a concert. The curfews etc..Very stressful.

Yes, you are right. It's a good reminder for us.

It's job, and Prince is experienced enough to do it according plan. It's a good thing the audiance forgets about the hard work. Because an entertainer should not show hardship to the audiance.

It's good to get reminded though when getting to judgemental about these kind of concerts.

Rihanna was an hour late for her concert in Arnhem. A lot of people had to leave half way her concert to be able to catch the last train back home. Or stayed and had to pay a LOT of money to pay for a taxi to bring them home.

Also all the staff had to get paid extra for working that extra hour.

All those extra costs were for Rihanna. She got a fine on top of that, due to contract breach.

She will remember her Dutch gig for years. Not only because her being late was very expensive for her, also because she had her fans waiting for her so long, that they were in a very negative mood when she arrived and therefore were not very enthusiastic about her concert.

O well, so artists live and learn. She probably won't do that again.

Prince isn't doing things like that because he knows better.

Prince has been touring 4 over 30 years he knows that business inside and out and has booked and arranged his own shows(Aftershows). If U have been lucky enough to experience his rehearsals they are very professional. He knows everything the sounds of the mic, the lights,everybodies instrument,the dances, the timing of the songs. EVERYTHING!.

For anyone to say he gives a bad show and doesn't care about his per4mances is an insult. When I go to his show. I don't just watch him I watch everybody.The stage hands,wardrobe people,guitar techs,bodyguards,runners. Its a well oiled machine that Prince runs like a sergeant.