artist76 said:

Anyway, as I said, I'm not comparing acts (I personally do think Prince is "better"; U2, not so much).

"U2, not so much"??

"Better" than who? Prince? Well noone is saying either is "better" however I think Prince is a better overall musician than the individual members of U2.

As for Duran Duran, if you and/or your friend looking over your shoulder actually think that Duran Duran is even remotely as good as U2...please, pass me whatever it is you are smoking, injesting, drinking, whatever...holy crap that is a ridiculous statement.

[Edited 11/30/11 12:46pm]

Yup, I knew this would happen. This is a concert thread, not a general music thread, so I apologize it's getting into this.

I wrote that Prince is the better artist, in my opinion, not that anyone is better than him - jeez, I joined this silly site, didn't I?

I think you're getting all worked up because several people here challenged your opinions - but I am not one of them! I agree that the critiques are quite harsh and unrealistic, and I agree with your excellent post outlining the realities of what goes into a concert like this.

I'm only adding that if people want a concert where there aren't so many same hits & covers, they'd need to wait for him to play a smaller venue, which he has done in the past. Btw, no one's saying that a group like DD can fill stadiums like Prince still can, everybody even DD themselves know that; but if you removed all the casual concert-goers at a Prince concert, I bet his concert audience would be a Nokia-sized one too. Then he can unleash his Ballad of Dorothy Parker, etc.

acrobat70 said:

j123 whined and bawled and said:

I understand some people may be happy with his performance on Saturday night. But after having experienced a few good shows, one can tell when their seeing a half-hearted effort.
I thought I seen the worse show back in Jersey the first night of Welcome 2 America, but after Toronto on Saturday night I can't even compare, its was like an all time low for Prince. I love Prince as an artist, his music is amazing, but Saturday night was a real disappointment. The show ended a full hour earlier than Friday nights opener. Thousands of fans still in their seats, the Air Canada Centre was still packed like a sardine can. While the crowd was chanting "eh eh eh" and "Encore Please" until they lost their voices, it was sad to hear someone say lets go Hun they are taking apart the drums. Were not deranged fans, were not trying to bash Prince or the band and money or curfew had nothing to do with this. Just very disappointed with Saturday night and after all that happened to walk out of the Air Canada Centre and see 5 tractor trailers ready to disassemble the stage on an early night at the expense of thousands still waiting in the arena was appalling.

Let's get some things cleared up for the clearly delusional posters here: Prince has a show of approximately 3 hours. Period. Saturday's show didn't end a full hour earlier, it ended at 11:15 after having begun at 8:40. I have phone records to and from friends in other parts of the building to prove it.

On Friday, he went on at 9:00 and left the stage last at 12:03.

Fridays show (incl breaks): 3:03

Saturdays show (incl fewer breaks): 2:35

So Saturdays show was 25 minutes shorter. In that extra 25 minutes Friday, it should be noted that there were more breaks.

Having cleared that up, here's some things you should know about live concert production:

1. Most concerts at ACC (and Rogers Centre) are permitted by city by-law to run until 11:00 PM or VERY shortly thereafter. Bands/production companies risk significant fines every time they run over.

2. All the workers - especially the police - the concessions staff, the lighting, house technical support, all these people that go into making the show run smoothly - are contracted to work at the venue to work until a certain time. They are not contracted to work "until whatever time the band feels like finishing". That's not how it goes. They are also unionized, and their contracts stipulate overtime rates.

3. Prince's band, backup singers, Maceo, all of them, have contracts which no doubt stipulate that they will play shows of a given length on any given show. They are doing a job. They're likely not obligated to play 100 songs if Prince so chooses. They are also human beings, not robots.

4. Those trucks you saw outside? Company called Upstaging. I know a few of the drivers. They are also contracted to arrive at the loading docks at a certain time, get loaded out, and truck on out to the next venue upon a designated schedule. The security teams that escort them onto properties and guard them while they are there are also contracted for certain times.

5. Last but not least, Prince himself is under contract with Live Nation to operate according to their rules and likely has clauses that force him to absorb losses that are a result of them getting fined for his behavior (lewd, running late, not showing, playing beyond city limits, etc etc)

Only touched on a few factors that go into running a production like this. This isn't showing up at Lee's Palace and you and the owner deciding if you're going to play until 1:30 am or 2:00 am. It doesn't work like that.

Here is a likely situation of what happened at these two shows - again, the show is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 hrs long - which, I really have to tell you, is FUCKING REMARKABLE in this day and age, most shows are just over 2 hrs long if that:

On Friday, some combination of events led to the show starting later than originally billeted. Maybe the venue didn't fill right at 8, maybe the box office was still selling tickets, maybe there was a production issue, who knows. At any rate, the show starts at 9 and Prince says well we are doing our show nonetheless, and it runs till midnight. MIDNIGHT at the ACC. I guarantee you that he was either fined, or given a very strong warning about not repeating this stunt the next night.

So Saturday he comes in and tries to start the show early, meanwhile people are STILL not all in their seats by 8 PM, in alot of cases probably because the people from Friday reported that the show doesn't actually start till 9, and so tries to stretch it to 8:30 or so. He still has a show of approx 3 hrs he wants to put on, and he's now operating under strict orders that he finish as close to 11 as possible.

So he cuts a couple of songs, removes/shortens a break or two, and starts a bit earlier, so as to finish closer to contracted time. As a result, we get 25 minutes less time from start to finish, total.

What should he have done? Go overtime again on Saturday? Why? The entire two rows in front of me almost, left after the main set was done. During the 1st encore, people were streaming out. DURING THE ENCORE! And speaking of singing along, 80% of the audience couldn't even managed the falsettos for Gold. And for god's sake, people sitting down during slow jams? Look - a concert is a two-way contract between the artist and the crowd and frankly Toronto audiences outright suck in so many ways it's not even funny. I'd sooner see a concert in Montreal or some other city, than Toronto. We're so spoiled and snobby. So you're Prince, you're onstage at 11:10 risking fines and people are streaming out and the ones that remain can barely sing your songs with you? You tell me that you're doing any more than a couple numbers and then out. You're not.

Stop the bellyaching and whining it's completely fucking ridiculous and truly noone including the other 35,000 people who saw him here last weekend gives a shit what 9 people are bitching about on The Internet.

/rant

Your phone records are irrelevant, I looked at the clock in the Air Canada Centre prior to the beginning and end of each show. The start and end times are not even an argument in my review, just an observation.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt regarding the 25 minute difference (I calculate 50-55 minutes as start was at 9pm - 12:15 am Toronto night 1 and 8:48 pm 11:20 pm Night 2, based on looking at the clock in the Air Canada Centre) in the show between the 2 nights, unless the clock was off, the second show may have had similar quantity as far as timing, however the quality was not the same. He played way more covers which I stated was ok as long as its not a majority of the show, other reviewers mention they didn't recognize what he was playing anymore, as it was not his own material, just look at the reviews on here from people who there on 11/25 most everyone enjoyed it myself included.

Your rant about live concert production is without merit, allow me to funnel through your list:

1. I am well aware of fines and curfews artist have to deal with. The NYC/ NJ shows consistently began at 8pm sharp and ended at around 11:40 every show. The proves Prince's tour is very well run from the beginning. Those shows all included opening acts, and on a couple of those he even came out before his band and played guitar with the opening acts. Anyone there would recall seeing him in his shawl at MSG during the opening acts. Furthermore, if a concert is set to begin at a said time such as 8pm it should begin around that time not an hour later. Although that isn't the end of the world for me, I know people have schedules and places to be. As for risking the fines, Prince knew what time his concert was set to begin and there was no opening act which would have helped with people entering the arena and getting settled in. Again not the end of the world. Just comparing the differences.

2. I do not expect the crew, police, workers, etc. to have to stay overtime. I myself do not want to be there overtime. If the show runs through its allotted time, then everything is fine. That’s the standard last time I checked. If the show begins and ends when its supposed to, everyone is happy, but things don't always work that way, people are late, things happen, again not the end of the world, but when fans are standing outside the doors at a quarter to eight and the show is set to begin at 8pm, fans shouldn't have to concern themselves with the artist or performers facing fines if the show runs over. In the modern workplace people lose their jobs for not being on time. I stated in my review that despite the late start, no opening act, people having to wait outside, etc. Prince put on a great performance, you could feel passion in his music, he thanked his fans for being with him and felt embraced by them. The 2nd night in Toronto, he did not thank his fans once.

3. I know the band is under contract and of course they're human. But they wouldn't just up and leave Prince just because he decided he wanted to do another encore. The band plays until Prince tells them to. Maceo Parker was not there because he had another gig elsewhere. Did Prince know that when he walked to the circle and said "I want to introduce to the stage", saw nobody downstairs, walked back to center stage and said, "my guitar", a slight flub but it happens, its not a big deal. Prince ought to have known Maceo was not there, Maceo was with Pee Wee Ellis at Koeroner Hall.

4. I am very familiar with the trucks I saw outside. That company is based in Illinois, I know what they do and why they were there. My point was that fans that were still chanting "encore please" around me in the packed arena as I sat there on the floor, should not have had to walk out and see these trucks running alongside the arena, while the fans we're anticipating another encore performance, as it has already been established he only had 2 encores that night. Prince sets high standards for himself in these shows and to have to witness something like this is outrageous. Prince could have easily done another 3 minute song and said goodnight. I have seen elaborate stages disassembled and even if Upstaging got there an hour later they could have been out of there by dawn as efficient as the crew is, it would not have effected other shows at the ACC or Prince since his next show was scheduled 5 days later in Halifax. People should not have seen this.

5. Prince is under contract with LiveNation and maybe fined for running late, lewd behavior, playing beyond the city limits etc. But the only issue here was that thousands paying ticket holders, fans who traveled from far places, got a half-hearted performance, its one thing to have to wait outside until quarter to the show start time, to having the show actually begin an hour later. It was not some free festival, thousands of people paid their hard earned money to be there and to not have as good or better a show than the night before is inexcusable, but we still love Prince and we will continue to listen to his music and go to his shows. Harsh as it may sound its just not fair.

I'm not even going to begin to address your hypothetical scenarios of what you think happened. The only people who really know are Prince, the band, and his crew.

I don't know where in the arena you were or on what night you are referring to people got up and left. But on the 2nd night, which I was referring to in my original post, many people remained seated. Almost all sections that I could see from the floor and above were still packed. I know on the first night many people got up and left, Prince did multiple encores on that night, But the 2nd show where fans are still in their seats, chanting "encore please" he just comes up short.

Cursing like a truck driver and insulting the fans in Toronto shows how truly arrogant you are. Having witnessed many recent Prince shows, I can tell you that a majority of the crowd expects the concert to be over as Prince says goodnight and leaves the stage before doing another encore. The Toronto crowd on Saturday night was one of the most intelligent, best crowds I've seen, they were loud, enthusiastic, remained standing, and anticipated another encore, they did not just up and leave and for that you say they suck.

Obviously you have a bone to pick with everyone here, either they agree with you or they are wrong? Last time I checked this post was about reviews from Saturday nights concert, fans can post their experiences as they please, if you don't like it, keep it moving.

[Edited 11/30/11 14:36pm]

j123 crapped out:

Your phone records are irrelevant, I looked at the clock in the Air Canada Centre prior to the beginning and end of each show. The start and end times are not even an argument in my review, just an observation.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt regarding the 25 minute difference (I calculate 50-55 minutes as start was at 9pm - 12:15 am Toronto night 1 and 8:48 pm 11:20 pm Night 2, based on looking at the clock in the Air Canada Centre) in the show between the 2 nights, unless the clock was off, the second show may have had similar quantity as far as timing, however the quality was not the same. He played way more covers which I stated was ok as long as its not a majority of the show, other reviewers mention they didn't recognize what he was playing anymore, as it was not his own material,

1. OK!! So your recollection of what you looked up and saw on the clock trumps what I can still look back on my phone and see? Riiiight.

2. If other reviewers "didn't recognize what he was playing anymore, as it was not his own material" - they might need to get out and listen to some more music. As it is, getting down to facts: Friday night - FIVE COVERS. Read that again: FIVE COVERS. /yourpoint

3. Your beef is about the "quality" of the show? Like you have any background in evaluating quality of musical performance? Give your head a shake.

So what does NYC/NJ have to do with Toronto? Different city, different venue. But I'm gonna play along and call you out on your bull...guess what genius? Both the December 2010 and Jan 2011 MSG shows started anywhere from 15 minutes to AN HOUR AND 10 minutes late and on average were 2 hrs long (one was 110 minutes, one 130 minutes and one 140 minutes). Got any other crazy ideas about how much better it was other nights? lol

1. Fans don't have to concern themselves with the fines, the artist does. Pretty logical statement. Hence artist decides to play a similar length of show with fewer breaks and get it under the curfew time.

2. You are dead wrong, he thanked Toronto several times. In fact, he said "You know, I used to live here...if y'all keep it up, I just might have to move back". He was very friendly with the audience. There's something wrong with you, not him.

I'm just laughing so hard at this. Are you actually serious when you type this crap?

People should not have seen what? The trucks waiting outside to load up?? Are you nuts? Honestly, this is getting ridiculous. I said you whined before, but this is silly. They are contracted to arrive at SHOW COMPLETION, to be ready to load up the instant the house lights come up. NOT when the last fan trickles out, not when some internet dweeb deems it "fair" or "right" for them to show up, nothing else. So let me get this straight: the same fans that stayed on over and over chanting should not have been able to walk out at 11:30 PM and see the trucks waiting to load up? Get real!!!

So in your warped world-view, the issue that trumps all the contracts, all the rules, the fines, everything, is the few people who travelled from far places (because it's not the majority), and the even fewer people who actually care enough about minutae like 2 covers per night vs 3 covers per night or 140 minutes of music vs 160 minutes of music?? And that they had to wait a bit for the show to start? I wrote earlier that whiners like you were delusional, and the more you talk the more you prove it. You're right, it wasn't a free festival. It was a 2.5 hr concert and it went on as does every other show at ACC. Friday's show is not the norm at most any other artist's show at the ACC, and it went well beyond most of Prince's other shows, also.

Man you seem to have some vision issues when you look up (the clock, the stands, etc )

Wrong again. I was in the lowers. Many many people left during the first break, and many continued to leave even when he came back on.

He actually did say goodnight before leaving the stage, he was at the "horn" and waving when he said it. He then came back and did an encore. So...you were saying??

There is no bone to pick with everyone here. There's actually more here (and in the real world) who agree that Prince gave Toronto 2 great shows. If the very few like you that don't could actually write anything based on reality, logic, or facts, there might be an argument. But since you've failed to do that, there's no argument.

You're more than free to post your narrow view riddled with ridiculously unrealistic selfish expectations...just don't expect the majority of people who can think rationally to agree with you, and don't be shocked when someone calls you out on your BS!

[Edited 11/30/11 16:01pm]

artist76 said:

Yup, I knew this would happen. This is a concert thread, not a general music thread, so I apologize it's getting into this.

I wrote that Prince is the better artist, in my opinion, not that anyone is better than him - jeez, I joined this silly site, didn't I?

I think you're getting all worked up because several people here challenged your opinions - but I am not one of them! I agree that the critiques are quite harsh and unrealistic, and I agree with your excellent post outlining the realities of what goes into a concert like this.

I'm only adding that if people want a concert where there aren't so many same hits & covers, they'd need to wait for him to play a smaller venue, which he has done in the past. Btw, no one's saying that a group like DD can fill stadiums like Prince still can, everybody even DD themselves know that; but if you removed all the casual concert-goers at a Prince concert, I bet his concert audience would be a Nokia-sized one too. Then he can unleash his Ballad of Dorothy Parker, etc.

Ok I get you, and agree.

I thought you were trying to make a backhanded Duran Duran vs U2 statement. My bad.

Really and truly, I've counted 2 people who've challenged my opinions. I don't think that represents a majority opinion. Having said that, the views expressed on internet forums rarely, if ever, represent the majority of fans' opinions (mine included! irony!)

acrobat70 said:

j123 crapped out:

Your phone records are irrelevant, I looked at the clock in the Air Canada Centre prior to the beginning and end of each show. The start and end times are not even an argument in my review, just an observation.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt regarding the 25 minute difference (I calculate 50-55 minutes as start was at 9pm - 12:15 am Toronto night 1 and 8:48 pm 11:20 pm Night 2, based on looking at the clock in the Air Canada Centre) in the show between the 2 nights, unless the clock was off, the second show may have had similar quantity as far as timing, however the quality was not the same. He played way more covers which I stated was ok as long as its not a majority of the show, other reviewers mention they didn't recognize what he was playing anymore, as it was not his own material,

He actually did say goodnight before leaving the stage, he was at the "horn" and waving when he said it. He then came back and did an encore. So...you were saying??

j123 crapped out:

Obviously you have a bone to pick with everyone here, either they agree with you or they are wrong? Last time I checked this post was about reviews from Saturday nights concert, fans can post their experiences as they please, if you don't like it, keep it moving.

[Edited 11/30/11 14:36pm]

There is no bone to pick with everyone here. There's actually more here (and in the real world) who agree that Prince gave Toronto 2 great shows. If the very few like you that don't could actually write anything based on reality, logic, or facts, there might be an argument. But since you've failed to do that, there's no argument.

You're more than free to post your narrow view riddled with ridiculously unrealistic selfish expectations...just don't expect the majority of people who can think rationally to agree with you, and don't be shocked when someone calls you out on your BS!

[Edited 11/30/11 15:30pm]

[Edited 11/30/11 15:32pm]

I was making comparisons between all the Prince shows I had seen which are 8 in the last 11 months (floor seats to all but 1). My review of Saturday nights concert was based on my observations from all the shows. My opinions regards quality, professionalism, likes and dislikes are a part of my review. Other reviewers have already touched on these issues, all you have to do is go back and read the posts. The only issue that I introduced, that was not already mentioned by others, was the tractor trailers waiting to disassemble the stage which made the night seem rushed and is also pertinent to the quality of the show. Once again you felt compelled to try to pick apart my review with your perception of the events that occured. Others here may either agree or disagree with your views or mine and vice versa. Just because you were calling friends around the time the show started and ended while I was actually looking at the clock does not mean that your call log from your cell phone is the actual beginning and end of the shows. Thanks for proving my point that you have a bone to pick with everyone in your attempts to yet again critique my review and since you mention only 2 people have tried to challenge your opinion which you seem to think matters, only reminds me why I do not usually speak to people of your nature.

[Edited 12/1/11 21:32pm]

acrobat70 said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

More Grammys than you can count? He's got 6 or 7. How's that so high that it's nearly uncountable???

Maybe you should read the entire context. We were talking about another band by way of comparison.

He/she was referring to Prince. What else was there to read or read into?? I know they were talking about in general, but they were saying that Prince fit into that category they were describing.

acrobat70 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

so what's the problem with doing a 50/50 split then? but doing a show with one cover is fine for someone like prince ..not 4-5 like he's been doing

What I'm saying is that it's not reasonable to expect a 50/50 split with an artist who has been around for 30 years, especially if the majority of their hits belong to a certain decade. (or with a bit of bleed over into the next one, the 90s)

let a woman be a woman and man be a man

let someone be all they can be and if we as his fans don't let him know that then keeping him shackled is exactly what will happen

acrobat70 said:

artist76 said:

The Duran Duran concert in L.A. last month was basically a 50/50 split -

I realize that much of your post is trying to reach a middle ground, and it's not lost on me, but honestly a band like Duran Duran, who basically had nothing of any consequence to listen to for over 15 years, in a concert hall is about a gazillion times different of an animal than Prince or U2 in an arena or stadium. It's really really different.

how is it different if your talking about artistic value? the whole world views prince of someone that isn't "relevant" but damn at least other artists know how 2 market and SELL their works to their fans by giving them the chance to hear their new music live in concert

alexnvrmnd777 said:

acrobat70 said:

Maybe you should read the entire context. We were talking about another band by way of comparison.

He/she was referring to Prince. What else was there to read or read into?? I know they were talking about in general, but they were saying that Prince fit into that category they were describing.

Good grief!!! I was using another band by way of example!! One that has more Grammys than you can count on two hands. Prince may or may not have as many, but he certainly has a comparable a number of well-known hits/favorites.

Is that any clearer?

L4OATheOriginal said:

how is it different if your talking about artistic value? the whole world views prince of someone that isn't "relevant" but damn at least other artists know how 2 market and SELL their works to their fans by giving them the chance to hear their new music live in concert

Stay with the flow of convo here: can you name me one other "super act" of 30 years history with hits or decent chart success in all 3 of those decades who is playing a 50/50 set in an arena or stadium? Are they playing more than about 3 or 4 - MAX! - songs of their album they are currently promoting? Take a cross section of their setlist - are they or are they not paying the most attention to the period of their history that the majority of people know and want to hear, night in, night out?

It's not about being shackled or some vague notion of artistic merit/integrity (huge eye roll here)...it's about giving 60,000/25,000 people what they came to hear, night in night out.

Also, is this really an album promo tour? If so, why isn't it entitled "20Ten" or whatever? If he has decided not to make this be a tour promoting an album that's getting rather mixed reviews, that's his prerogative.

j123 said:

Exactly

acrobat70 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

how is it different if your talking about artistic value? the whole world views prince of someone that isn't "relevant" but damn at least other artists know how 2 market and SELL their works to their fans by giving them the chance to hear their new music live in concert

Stay with the flow of convo here: can you name me one other "super act" of 30 years history with hits or decent chart success in all 3 of those decades who is playing a 50/50 set in an arena or stadium? Are they playing more than about 3 or 4 - MAX! - songs of their album they are currently promoting? Take a cross section of their setlist - are they or are they not paying the most attention to the period of their history that the majority of people know and want to hear, night in, night out?

It's not about being shackled or some vague notion of artistic merit/integrity (huge eye roll here)...it's about giving 60,000/25,000 people what they came to hear, night in night out.

Also, is this really an album promo tour? If so, why isn't it entitled "20Ten" or whatever? If he has decided not to make this be a tour promoting an album that's getting rather mixed reviews, that's his prerogative.

i'm not asking what other artist or group cause a lot of them aren't in the same caliber as prince in terms of musical output, i'm asking YOU does it make sense to stick 2 a greatest hits format if u had 30 years of material 2 offer? or does it make sense to MAXIMIZE the audience u have in front of u 2 say "hey y'all i still got new music here it is!" damn it's called promotion and marketing and yes selling. as 4 the name of a tour let me laugh at the one for a moment ..there is a song called welcome 2 america but only done once in it's original form live. so we dont' even know what songs might be on a album called welcome 2 whatever country/contienent he's playing in currently .

here's a prime example also in a arena setting that prince fucked up royally, musicology and planet shit were given away with the cost of ticket. how many times did prince play songs from that album on a nightly basis? if he is so content with playing nothing but hits on this tour or future tours then he is doin the right thing by being in "studio rehab" but i would also say dont' even release anything new to the public cause chances are they aren't gonna hear it live anyway

acrobat70 said:

j123 whined and bawled and said:

I understand some people may be happy with his performance on Saturday night. But after having experienced a few good shows, one can tell when their seeing a half-hearted effort.
I thought I seen the worse show back in Jersey the first night of Welcome 2 America, but after Toronto on Saturday night I can't even compare, its was like an all time low for Prince. I love Prince as an artist, his music is amazing, but Saturday night was a real disappointment. The show ended a full hour earlier than Friday nights opener. Thousands of fans still in their seats, the Air Canada Centre was still packed like a sardine can. While the crowd was chanting "eh eh eh" and "Encore Please" until they lost their voices, it was sad to hear someone say lets go Hun they are taking apart the drums. Were not deranged fans, were not trying to bash Prince or the band and money or curfew had nothing to do with this. Just very disappointed with Saturday night and after all that happened to walk out of the Air Canada Centre and see 5 tractor trailers ready to disassemble the stage on an early night at the expense of thousands still waiting in the arena was appalling.

Let's get some things cleared up for the clearly delusional posters here: Prince has a show of approximately 3 hours. Period. Saturday's show didn't end a full hour earlier, it ended at 11:15 after having begun at 8:40. I have phone records to and from friends in other parts of the building to prove it.

On Friday, he went on at 9:00 and left the stage last at 12:03.

Fridays show (incl breaks): 3:03

Saturdays show (incl fewer breaks): 2:35

So Saturdays show was 25 minutes shorter. In that extra 25 minutes Friday, it should be noted that there were more breaks.

Having cleared that up, here's some things you should know about live concert production:

1. Most concerts at ACC (and Rogers Centre) are permitted by city by-law to run until 11:00 PM or VERY shortly thereafter. Bands/production companies risk significant fines every time they run over.

2. All the workers - especially the police - the concessions staff, the lighting, house technical support, all these people that go into making the show run smoothly - are contracted to work at the venue to work until a certain time. They are not contracted to work "until whatever time the band feels like finishing". That's not how it goes. They are also unionized, and their contracts stipulate overtime rates.

3. Prince's band, backup singers, Maceo, all of them, have contracts which no doubt stipulate that they will play shows of a given length on any given show. They are doing a job. They're likely not obligated to play 100 songs if Prince so chooses. They are also human beings, not robots.

4. Those trucks you saw outside? Company called Upstaging. I know a few of the drivers. They are also contracted to arrive at the loading docks at a certain time, get loaded out, and truck on out to the next venue upon a designated schedule. The security teams that escort them onto properties and guard them while they are there are also contracted for certain times.

5. Last but not least, Prince himself is under contract with Live Nation to operate according to their rules and likely has clauses that force him to absorb losses that are a result of them getting fined for his behavior (lewd, running late, not showing, playing beyond city limits, etc etc)

Only touched on a few factors that go into running a production like this. This isn't showing up at Lee's Palace and you and the owner deciding if you're going to play until 1:30 am or 2:00 am. It doesn't work like that.

Here is a likely situation of what happened at these two shows - again, the show is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 hrs long - which, I really have to tell you, is FUCKING REMARKABLE in this day and age, most shows are just over 2 hrs long if that:

On Friday, some combination of events led to the show starting later than originally billeted. Maybe the venue didn't fill right at 8, maybe the box office was still selling tickets, maybe there was a production issue, who knows. At any rate, the show starts at 9 and Prince says well we are doing our show nonetheless, and it runs till midnight. MIDNIGHT at the ACC. I guarantee you that he was either fined, or given a very strong warning about not repeating this stunt the next night.

So Saturday he comes in and tries to start the show early, meanwhile people are STILL not all in their seats by 8 PM, in alot of cases probably because the people from Friday reported that the show doesn't actually start till 9, and so tries to stretch it to 8:30 or so. He still has a show of approx 3 hrs he wants to put on, and he's now operating under strict orders that he finish as close to 11 as possible.

So he cuts a couple of songs, removes/shortens a break or two, and starts a bit earlier, so as to finish closer to contracted time. As a result, we get 25 minutes less time from start to finish, total.

What should he have done? Go overtime again on Saturday? Why? The entire two rows in front of me almost, left after the main set was done. During the 1st encore, people were streaming out. DURING THE ENCORE! And speaking of singing along, 80% of the audience couldn't even managed the falsettos for Gold. And for god's sake, people sitting down during slow jams? Look - a concert is a two-way contract between the artist and the crowd and frankly Toronto audiences outright suck in so many ways it's not even funny. I'd sooner see a concert in Montreal or some other city, than Toronto. We're so spoiled and snobby. So you're Prince, you're onstage at 11:10 risking fines and people are streaming out and the ones that remain can barely sing your songs with you? You tell me that you're doing any more than a couple numbers and then out. You're not.

Stop the bellyaching and whining it's completely fucking ridiculous and truly noone including the other 35,000 people who saw him here last weekend gives a shit what 9 people are bitching about on The Internet.

/rant

WOOHHH ! YES!!! *High Five* AMEN! THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS!!! I agree!

acrobat70 said:

xLiberiangirl said:

Anyway yes, about U2 that's true. But they also change their setlists(not as much as Prince does though!!!) but they also did some songs they haven't done in years.

Ha...I hear you although noone who has seen U2 more than 3 times over the last 3 tours would agree with you. VERY static setlist, few changes.

U2 does change their setlist. Not as much as I wish, but from 2009-2011, they played over 45 different full length songs. At EVERY SINGLE SHOW...they played at least 22 full length songs, and BONO was on LEAD VOCALS for EVERY SINGLE SONG. SHELBY was not singing, there were no background singers, as THE EDGE did that. Nobody had to chant "Put Your Hands Up" 340 times in 2 hours. At a U2 show, you might get one COVER SONG....but you don't get bits and pieces of songs, you get the ENTIRE DAMB SONG...something Prince can only do when the spirit moves him. NOBODY AT A U2 SHOW PLAYS A DAMN TAPE for Bono to sing over....no ridiculous sampler set. Yes, U2 does use backing tapes, but it is a minor part of the show, nothing like Prince does.

U2 doesn't have even five percent of Prince's talent, but their show is serious, and not the Self-Parody Prince's show has become. I hate writing these words, but it is true.

Now, as I said in my earlier post, if you are the kind of fan who is heavily into what Prince's hair looks like, you will defend him til no end, so no sense in responding to this. The overly positive fans would love Prince if he brought a damn blender on stage and made fruity drinks for 90 minutes, and would say it was the best thing they ever saw!

stillwaiting said:

acrobat70 said:

Ha...I hear you although noone who has seen U2 more than 3 times over the last 3 tours would agree with you. VERY static setlist, few changes.

U2 does change their setlist. Not as much as I wish, but from 2009-2011, they played over 45 different full length songs. At EVERY SINGLE SHOW...they played at least 22 full length songs, and BONO was on LEAD VOCALS for EVERY SINGLE SONG. SHELBY was not singing, there were no background singers, as THE EDGE did that. Nobody had to chant "Put Your Hands Up" 340 times in 2 hours. At a U2 show, you might get one COVER SONG....but you don't get bits and pieces of songs, you get the ENTIRE DAMB SONG...something Prince can only do when the spirit moves him. NOBODY AT A U2 SHOW PLAYS A DAMN TAPE for Bono to sing over....no ridiculous sampler set. Yes, U2 does use backing tapes, but it is a minor part of the show, nothing like Prince does.

U2 doesn't have even five percent of Prince's talent, but their show is serious, and not the Self-Parody Prince's show has become. I hate writing these words, but it is true.

Now, as I said in my earlier post, if you are the kind of fan who is heavily into what Prince's hair looks like, you will defend him til no end, so no sense in responding to this. The overly positive fans would love Prince if he brought a damn blender on stage and made fruity drinks for 90 minutes, and would say it was the best thing they ever saw!

I agree with this, If Prince could just do 10-15 songs in their entirety of his own material, I don't think we'd be seeing as many complaints. The fans who don't understand this such as the person you addressed in your post are glib, because you are right, they are the ones who will defend him till they end. They are into what Prince's hair looks like or someone telling them they resemble Prince etc. But for those who appreciate real music by real musicians having a 15 minute sample set of songs such as When Doves Cry and I Will Die 4 U, etc. is just not going to fly with some. I was at the Kanye West/Jay-Z concert at the ACC 2 nights before the Prince show and they did a 40 song set list, with each song in its entirety. At some point Kanye would restart the song to make sure it was done right and the audience got what they paid for, now that is perfection coming from Jay-Z and Kanye, not exactly the level of experience Prince possesses having been in the business for about 30 years. But for those who were first time Prince concert goers they wouldn't really even know the difference and as you say Prince could have brought a blender on stage and made fruity drinks and they would say its the best thing ever. Interesting to think we can't even offer up constructive criticism of an artist we have been following for years without having some wise guy quick to offer their rebuttal.

stillwaiting said:

acrobat70 said:

Ha...I hear you although noone who has seen U2 more than 3 times over the last 3 tours would agree with you. VERY static setlist, few changes.

U2 does change their setlist. Not as much as I wish, but from 2009-2011, they played over 45 different full length songs. At EVERY SINGLE SHOW...they played at least 22 full length songs, and BONO was on LEAD VOCALS for EVERY SINGLE SONG. SHELBY was not singing, there were no background singers, as THE EDGE did that. Nobody had to chant "Put Your Hands Up" 340 times in 2 hours. At a U2 show, you might get one COVER SONG....but you don't get bits and pieces of songs, you get the ENTIRE DAMB SONG...something Prince can only do when the spirit moves him. NOBODY AT A U2 SHOW PLAYS A DAMN TAPE for Bono to sing over....no ridiculous sampler set. Yes, U2 does use backing tapes, but it is a minor part of the show, nothing like Prince does.

U2 doesn't have even five percent of Prince's talent, but their show is serious, and not the Self-Parody Prince's show has become. I hate writing these words, but it is true.

Now, as I said in my earlier post, if you are the kind of fan who is heavily into what Prince's hair looks like, you will defend him til no end, so no sense in responding to this. The overly positive fans would love Prince if he brought a damn blender on stage and made fruity drinks for 90 minutes, and would say it was the best thing they ever saw!

well said

stillwaiting said:

Now, as I said in my earlier post, if you are the kind of fan who is heavily into what Prince's hair looks like, you will defend him til no end, so no sense in responding to this. The overly positive fans would love Prince if he brought a damn blender on stage and made fruity drinks for 90 minutes, and would say it was the best thing they ever saw!

Well that would entirely depend on what kind of fruity drinks he was making.

rialb said:

stillwaiting said:

Now, as I said in my earlier post, if you are the kind of fan who is heavily into what Prince's hair looks like, you will defend him til no end, so no sense in responding to this. The overly positive fans would love Prince if he brought a damn blender on stage and made fruity drinks for 90 minutes, and would say it was the best thing they ever saw!

Well that would entirely depend on what kind of fruity drinks he was making.

I find the comments re U2 amusing. They are my absolute favorite band. Seen them upwards of 30 times+ all across Canada and the US and it never gets boring to me...however regardless of what stats you want to trot out, they play a really core static group of songs at every single last show, and they play them at almost exactly the same time of the show. People on their forums bitch and whine constantly about how boring the setlist is (and I attack them mercilessly there too ). U2, love them as I do, are not the musicians Prince is, however. They can't just pull a song out of their ass and play it. Everything is really scripted down to the last and they have quite a bit going on that isn't coming out of the 4 guys standing on the stage. It's played by a guy under the stage. Bono reads lyrics and monologues from a teleprompter. Edge uses guitar backing tracks sparingly, and he's not pulling out an epic cover of Crimson and Clover like Prince did, period. They do quite a few snippets as they're called, like Prince does. When they've tried to do the full versions of these songs, they haven't come off all that well. It's pretty widely accepted that they pretty much have to stick to the 25 or so songs they prepared for that particular tour, with a few extra songs they can pick up along the way. It's really pretty much the same show over and over, but like I said, I don't find it boring or repetitive. Cmon. Noone's perfect. U2 doesn't play alot of covers?? well duh, they've said themselves publicly that they aren't good at playing other people's music. They can play the music they write, and that's about it. Prince can not only play other artists music with ease, he can reinterpret it and make it sound like a million bucks.

I've also seen more hip hop/soul artists then I can count incl MJ, JJ, Kanye, KRS1, Public Enemy etc, rock like Rush, The Police, Van Halen etc etc, honestly have seen ALOT of musical acts over the last 30 years and have performed for many also. However I thought the Saturday show of Prince's was one of the finest I've ever seen by any artist anywhere. I guess I'm "glib" or a "blind sheep"

And for the love of god, it's a SOUL show with heavy gospel tinges at times.. Encouraging the audience to clap your hands or put your hands up or lemme hear you say "hoo-oh" or getting a guest singer to sing is part of the freaking genre. Prince isn't a rock artist per se, so why are you comparing his stage vibe to what a boring rock artist does? Bono is not the boring artist either, but he certainly does his fair share of encouraging the audience to clap, wave, sing, take our your cell phone, etc etc...he draws alot from the hip hop genre in that regard, in my opinion, and it makes audiences love him. Yet we criticize Prince for doing the same thing? Makes no sense.

I haven't seen Prince 30+ times, though, so that might account for it being fresh to me. Having said that, yes, U2 is a show to behold. But if you saw U2 30 times and Prince 30 times, you will in fact probably get a greater number of varied songs out of Prince.

Oh yah...and those measly 7 Upstaging trucks waiting to load up after a Prince show? U2 has about 45 Upstaging trucks waiting outside..

[Edited 12/1/11 6:17am]

I wasn't going to join in but....YOU MADE ME!!

NY shows did not start late, I was at them.

NJ show was an hour late starting...I can't peak of both as I only attended 1 & he WAS late, the sound quality was s**t.

ACC show, didn't start at 8.40 & i'm going by the clock in there, my watch & my phone (along with everyone's phone watch that was around me).

Maybe you should have paid more attention to the show (or lack of) & less time recording on your phone.

I've seen Prince many times & this ACC concert was NOT close to anything i've seen him do before.

acrobat70 said:

j123 crapped out:

Your phone records are irrelevant, I looked at the clock in the Air Canada Centre prior to the beginning and end of each show. The start and end times are not even an argument in my review, just an observation.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt regarding the 25 minute difference (I calculate 50-55 minutes as start was at 9pm - 12:15 am Toronto night 1 and 8:48 pm 11:20 pm Night 2, based on looking at the clock in the Air Canada Centre) in the show between the 2 nights, unless the clock was off, the second show may have had similar quantity as far as timing, however the quality was not the same. He played way more covers which I stated was ok as long as its not a majority of the show, other reviewers mention they didn't recognize what he was playing anymore, as it was not his own material,

He actually did say goodnight before leaving the stage, he was at the "horn" and waving when he said it. He then came back and did an encore. So...you were saying??

j123 crapped out:

Obviously you have a bone to pick with everyone here, either they agree with you or they are wrong? Last time I checked this post was about reviews from Saturday nights concert, fans can post their experiences as they please, if you don't like it, keep it moving.

[Edited 11/30/11 14:36pm]

There is no bone to pick with everyone here. There's actually more here (and in the real world) who agree that Prince gave Toronto 2 great shows. If the very few like you that don't could actually write anything based on reality, logic, or facts, there might be an argument. But since you've failed to do that, there's no argument.

You're more than free to post your narrow view riddled with ridiculously unrealistic selfish expectations...just don't expect the majority of people who can think rationally to agree with you, and don't be shocked when someone calls you out on your BS!

[Edited 11/30/11 16:01pm]

That's what I was going to say! We were at 3 of the same shows together!!!! Fancy that!!!

j123 said:

stillwaiting said:

U2 does change their setlist. Not as much as I wish, but from 2009-2011, they played over 45 different full length songs. At EVERY SINGLE SHOW...they played at least 22 full length songs, and BONO was on LEAD VOCALS for EVERY SINGLE SONG. SHELBY was not singing, there were no background singers, as THE EDGE did that. Nobody had to chant "Put Your Hands Up" 340 times in 2 hours. At a U2 show, you might get one COVER SONG....but you don't get bits and pieces of songs, you get the ENTIRE DAMB SONG...something Prince can only do when the spirit moves him. NOBODY AT A U2 SHOW PLAYS A DAMN TAPE for Bono to sing over....no ridiculous sampler set. Yes, U2 does use backing tapes, but it is a minor part of the show, nothing like Prince does.

U2 doesn't have even five percent of Prince's talent, but their show is serious, and not the Self-Parody Prince's show has become. I hate writing these words, but it is true.

Now, as I said in my earlier post, if you are the kind of fan who is heavily into what Prince's hair looks like, you will defend him til no end, so no sense in responding to this. The overly positive fans would love Prince if he brought a damn blender on stage and made fruity drinks for 90 minutes, and would say it was the best thing they ever saw!

I agree with this, If Prince could just do 10-15 songs in their entirety of his own material, I don't think we'd be seeing as many complaints. The fans who don't understand this such as the person you addressed in your post are glib, because you are right, they are the ones who will defend him till they end. They are into what Prince's hair looks like or someone telling them they resemble Prince etc. But for those who appreciate real music by real musicians having a 15 minute sample set of songs such as When Doves Cry and I Will Die 4 U, etc. is just not going to fly with some. I was at the Kanye West/Jay-Z concert at the ACC 2 nights before the Prince show and they did a 40 song set list, with each song in its entirety. At some point Kanye would restart the song to make sure it was done right and the audience got what they paid for, now that is perfection coming from Jay-Z and Kanye, not exactly the level of experience Prince possesses having been in the business for about 30 years. But for those who were first time Prince concert goers they wouldn't really even know the difference and as you say Prince could have brought a blender on stage and made fruity drinks and they would say its the best thing ever. Interesting to think we can't even offer up constructive criticism of an artist we have been following for years without having some wise guy quick to offer their rebuttal.

leezatj said:

I wasn't going to join in but....YOU MADE ME!!

NY shows did not start late, I was at them.

NJ show was an hour late starting...I can't peak of both as I only attended 1 & he WAS late, the sound quality was s**t.

ACC show, didn't start at 8.40 & i'm going by the clock in there, my watch & my phone (along with everyone's phone watch that was around me).

Maybe you should have paid more attention to the show (or lack of) & less time recording on your phone.

Sooo..the reported start times at princevault for the December 2010 and January 2011 MSG shows are all wrong??

Re Toronto start time, guess what else I have? The video I shot of the complete intro and Gold, in it's entirety. The video is 9 minutes long and has a time stamp of 8:44 start and 8:53 end. Oops!!! Guess my entire cell networks system time is wrong, huh? lol

And I only shot ONE video, the start. I do this at all shows I go to I record the intro and then put the phone away. Sorry to disappoint your big point!

[Edited 12/1/11 7:19am]

acrobat70 said:

I find the comments re U2 amusing. They are my absolute favorite band. Seen them upwards of 30 times+ all across Canada and the US and it never gets boring to me...however regardless of what stats you want to trot out, they play a really core static group of songs at every single last show, and they play them at almost exactly the same time of the show. People on their forums bitch and whine constantly about how boring the setlist is (and I attack them mercilessly there too ). U2, love them as I do, are not the musicians Prince is, however. They can't just pull a song out of their ass and play it. Everything is really scripted down to the last and they have quite a bit going on that isn't coming out of the 4 guys standing on the stage. It's played by a guy under the stage. Bono reads lyrics and monologues from a teleprompter. Edge uses guitar backing tracks sparingly, and he's not pulling out an epic cover of Crimson and Clover like Prince did, period. They do quite a few snippets as they're called, like Prince does. When they've tried to do the full versions of these songs, they haven't come off all that well. It's pretty widely accepted that they pretty much have to stick to the 25 or so songs they prepared for that particular tour, with a few extra songs they can pick up along the way. It's really pretty much the same show over and over, but like I said, I don't find it boring or repetitive. Cmon. Noone's perfect. U2 doesn't play alot of covers?? well duh, they've said themselves publicly that they aren't good at playing other people's music. They can play the music they write, and that's about it. Prince can not only play other artists music with ease, he can reinterpret it and make it sound like a million bucks.

I've also seen more hip hop/soul artists then I can count incl MJ, JJ, Kanye, KRS1, Public Enemy etc, rock like Rush, The Police, Van Halen etc etc, honestly have seen ALOT of musical acts over the last 30 years and have performed for many also. However I thought the Saturday show of Prince's was one of the finest I've ever seen by any artist anywhere. I guess I'm "glib" or a "blind sheep"

And for the love of god, it's a SOUL show with heavy gospel tinges at times.. Encouraging the audience to clap your hands or put your hands up or lemme hear you say "hoo-oh" or getting a guest singer to sing is part of the freaking genre. Prince isn't a rock artist per se, so why are you comparing his stage vibe to what a boring rock artist does? Bono is not the boring artist either, but he certainly does his fair share of encouraging the audience to clap, wave, sing, take our your cell phone, etc etc...he draws alot from the hip hop genre in that regard, in my opinion, and it makes audiences love him. Yet we criticize Prince for doing the same thing? Makes no sense.

I haven't seen Prince 30+ times, though, so that might account for it being fresh to me. Having said that, yes, U2 is a show to behold. But if you saw U2 30 times and Prince 30 times, you will in fact probably get a greater number of varied songs out of Prince.

Oh yah...and those measly 7 Upstaging trucks waiting to load up after a Prince show? U2 has about 45 Upstaging trucks waiting outside..

[Edited 12/1/11 6:17am]

Wow. Thanks for posting. Interesting.

I like this. And I'm also not bored yet from Prince his shows haven't seen him 30 + times(I have seen him 8 times in 3 years.. Young fan here. ) I'm not bored yet. But I can understand that some other people are bored maybe. It depends on what you like etc.

Prince tours a lot. I think that's one of the problems too. He tours more than U2 does and than some fans are going so many times, that of course you can't expect a completely different setlist every night... so if it's almost the same setlist people are complaining for sure. But remember... every show has also different people in the audience, that never seen Prince before.

I have seen 8 shows and almost none of them were the same. I have seen 1 shows without any hit. And 2 shows with only between 2-4 hits.. (North Sea Jazz shows.. 9000 people every 3 nights )

He has done shows in Belgium last summer with hits and also more obscure songs. I wish he did shows like that every night.

But of course I can't expect that. It was in front of 15.000 people, but still I think he does what he feels like. I hope he will do shows like that more, more a mix of hits and obscure songs. I know he can do it.

But still I'm not bored yet with the shows like they are now. He is not 100 % predictable and he never will be 100 % predictable.

[Edited 12/1/11 7:36am]

[Edited 12/1/11 7:37am]

[Edited 12/1/11 7:38am]

this site has plummeted new fuckin depths for me now.......

so this cat 'acrobat' has enjoyed the show and is coming from a musicians point of view saying that it was one of the ebst he has ever seen.......

and hes getting flamed???

for fucks sake

seriously some of you need to turn off your laptops and get a life

jonylawson said:

this site has plummeted new fuckin depths for me now.......

so this cat 'acrobat' has enjoyed the show and is coming from a musicians point of view saying that it was one of the ebst he has ever seen.......

and hes getting flamed???

for fucks sake

seriously some of you need to turn off your laptops and get a life

after u ..ladies first u know

acrobat70 said:

I find the comments re U2 amusing. they play a really core static group of songs at every single last show, and they play them at almost exactly the same time of the show.

True to a point....but they played over 50 full length songs on the tour. Prince sleepwalks through snippets of songs sometimes barely singing more than the first verse.

People on their forums bitch and whine constantly about how boring the setlist is (and I attack them mercilessly there too ). U2, love them as I do, are not the musicians Prince is, however.

Absolutely true. When Prince is dancing or holding the microphone for the audience to sing, he is not in the state of being a musician. He is being a showman..fine for small stretches, but he can go overboard with it.

They can't just pull a song out of their ass and play it. Everything is really scripted down to the last and they have quite a bit going on that isn't coming out of the 4 guys standing on the stage.

'

Bullcrap....Prince is so scripted, he tells the same lame jokes at every show, laments about having "Too Many Hits," etc. U2's backing tapes account for less than 10% of what you actually hear on most songs. Even on the ones like Zooropa, the best aspects of the sounds are from the 4 guys...not some guy under the stage.

They do quite a few snippets as they're called, like Prince does. When they've tried to do the full versions of these songs, they haven't come off all that well.

Borderline lies here. Zooropa is missing the last verse, and Bono sometimes flubs the lyrics of other songs while LOOKING at the Teleprompter. You get 95 % or more of every song, and you get around 20 or more each show...nearly 90% of all shows since 1985. Prince can't say that. Prince turns his own songs into a snippet. Bono ADDS snippets of other artists' songs into U2 songs, extending the song, not shortening it like Prince does. To suggest U2 is not playing full songs is like telling me that Prince is only playing full length songs.

Prince can not only play other artists music with ease, he can reinterpret it and make it sound like a million bucks.

Really? If you are talking to someone who can name every woman Prince has gone on a date with, that person will say the cover song sounds like a million bucks. Ask someone who can actually play music, and the answer will be mixed at best. Prince has the lowest paid band in the industry for a reason: He could care less if they can play or not. Prince solo is a better player than anybody in his band or U2. He's a nuclear weapon musically when he wants to be. He sadly goes through the motions in Diva mode, and is not really doing anything some of the time.

I've also seen more hip hop/soul artists then I can count incl MJ, JJ, Kanye, KRS1, Public Enemy etc, rock like Rush, The Police, Van Halen etc etc, honestly have seen ALOT of musical acts over the last 30 years and have performed for many also. However I thought the Saturday show of Prince's was one of the finest I've ever seen by any artist anywhere. I guess I'm "glib" or a "blind sheep"

You have decent taste in music....save for Kanye, but a lot do like him, so I give you a pass there.

And for the love of god, it's a SOUL show with heavy gospel tinges at times.. Encouraging the audience to clap your hands or put your hands up or lemme hear you say "hoo-oh" or getting a guest singer to sing is part of the freaking genre. Prince isn't a rock artist per se, so why are you comparing his stage vibe to what a boring rock artist does?

I have been to around 500 concerts. I would say around 200 are either R&B or Hip Hop. I have NEVER EVER encountered so much "Put Your Hands Up," as I have at recent Prince concerts. I have seen legend after legend, and never seen anybody have their background singer take lead on 8 songs in a single show. Very few even have their backup singer sing lead at all. I can say that comparing him to any other R&B show I have been to, I have never heard the level of "Put Your Hands Up" at any other show.

I haven't seen Prince 30+ times, though, so that might account for it being fresh to me. Having said that, yes, U2 is a show to behold. But if you saw U2 30 times and Prince 30 times, you will in fact probably get a greater number of varied songs out of Prince.

I have seen Prince 45 times, and Kiss, Raspberry beret, Take Me With U, Purple Rain, Let's Go Crazy have been at over 30 of them.

Oh yah...and those measly 7 Upstaging trucks waiting to load up after a Prince show? U2 has about 45 Upstaging trucks waiting outside..

Prince will do whatever is possible to spend as little money as possible. Prince's old Guitar Tech later worked for Bon Jovi, and guess where he made more money?

At the Prince shows, the fans who came to see Prince in Diva mode, and love talking about how his hair looked were very happy..."Best Show Ever." The fans I talked to who have some level of musical knowledge were either saying the show was OK, or were bitching about it.

I can say that Charlotte, and Columbia were very good shows, but they could have been great. John Blackwell is the only member of Prince's band who could play with U2, and not seem out of place. All of U2 would be able to play with Prince, you'd just need a keyboardist who could lay the funk.

Andy Allo would not be able to replace The Edge, and Ida would not be able to replace Adam Clayton, but she at least would come close...Andy would have no clue to how to use Edge's effects pedal.

Prince is by far my all time favorite. This tour and band pale in comparison to the Controversy, Purple Rain, Parade, SOTT, ONA, and even the Musicology tour. The arrangements are often bland and generic, where many of the songs sound the same, and are in the same key, so the band does not have to reallly learn anything new.

"Future Soul Song," from the Forum Bootleg from April is a point in case. The band is basically playing music identical to "The Beautiful Ones," while Prince is playing the actual guitar part on FSS.

When Prince was on the ONA tour, did he need anybody yelling "Put Your Hands Up?" No.

I have seen U2 6 times from 2009-2011, and Prince 6 times in the same span. If Prince sings the first verse and chorus, and then dances around for the rest of the song, I can't count that as a song played. I count that as a song attempted. Yes, Prince's set list is more varied, but if you count full length songs performed, U2 kicks his ass all over the place. Bono would not do Karaoke and sing over a tape of 10 songs in a span of 7 minutes. That is something so hard to believe, I still am shaking my head over it.

thanks acrobat70 for helping me remember that the show actually WAS a good time.

Btw, I have 'some musical knowledge', and I thought the show was great on that level. I reaaaally don't care about Prince's hair or costume changes.

Just to reiterate:

At saturday's show I remember among other things

1 - Prince in a good mood (or at least very convincing) and loving the crowd
2 - Minimal Shelby 'put your hands up' calls

3 - A great performance of Shhh/U Will Be With Me (whatever it's called)

I think there was something in there for the hardcores to enjoy.

Personally I don't miss the full versions of the songs, with a few exceptions. The old ending of IWYG was great. Also, when he does the Hot Thing sample, wouldn't it be great if Maceo did a solo over the last half? Man. It would totally destroy the flow of the sampler set, but it would be worth it!

... or just maybe play Hot Thing for real.

fusk said:

thanks acrobat70 for helping me remember that the show actually WAS a good time.

Btw, I have 'some musical knowledge', and I thought the show was great on that level. I reaaaally don't care about Prince's hair or costume changes.

Just to reiterate:

At saturday's show I remember among other things

1 - Prince in a good mood (or at least very convincing) and loving the crowd
2 - Minimal Shelby 'put your hands up' calls

3 - A great performance of Shhh/U Will Be With Me (whatever it's called)

I think there was something in there for the hardcores to enjoy.

Personally I don't miss the full versions of the songs, with a few exceptions. The old ending of IWYG was great. Also, when he does the Hot Thing sample, wouldn't it be great if Maceo did a solo over the last half? Man. It would totally destroy the flow of the sampler set, but it would be worth it!

... or just maybe play Hot Thing for real.

He did Hot Thing couple of times in full(I think twice) last summer. He(Prince) played on the bass.

[Edited 12/2/11 2:29am]

stillwaiting said:

Bullcrap....Prince is so scripted, he tells the same lame jokes at every show, laments about having "Too Many Hits," etc. U2's backing tapes account for less than 10% of what you actually hear on most songs. Even on the ones like Zooropa, the best aspects of the sounds are from the 4 guys...not some guy under the stage.

1. You may have seen 6 shows or whatever, but U2's show is far more tight and scripted than Prince's. You're just fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Bono says the same thing night in night out, and - cutely enough, love him for it - has sometimes even shouted out the wrong city. Every lyric is on that teleprompter, ESPECIALLY songs that aren't part of the core set that they've been playing for the last 20 years night in night out. Even those...he's looking down at the teleprompter during One..during ONE??? Cmon, honestly..he's my favorite living frontman, but even I can admit that's a bit funny.

2. I didn't say "some guy under the stage" was putting out the majority of the sound coming off the stage. But that "guy under the stage" is clearly doing alot more than you clearly realize, given your comments here. I'm not going to spoil your fun, but anyways...lead guitar, lead vocals, harmonies, bass and drums are coming off the stage, yes.

Whoa hold up, I never said U2 doesn't play full length songs. I said that they play a CORE set of full length songs, while adding snippets of others. When they have tried to actually play full versions of those OTHERS, sometimes they don't always fly so well. That's not a lie, that's fact. You're talking to someone who not only has seen them so many times, but who also possesses probably 300+ of their live bootleg concert recordings. And while they've certainly admirable attempts and special moments of the show, they don't cover other people's songs exceptionally well. I don't what all that crap was about Prince's hair or how many wives he's had (because I don't even pay attention to fangirl stuff like that) but he does in fact do covers very well, and his band plays well behind him. Other musicians I was with at the show concur.

There's so much wrong here you're comparing the wrong band members to the wrong band members.

1. Any one of those band members could get up and play a U2 song. ANY ONE of them, Andy included. She wouldn't be playing the Edge's part, she'd be playing rhythm or Bono's (chuckle) parts. And she could definitely sing with Bono. Think Bono could pull off playing a Prince song? Err..

2. Prince would be playing the Edge parts, and he would have to seriously play down to do so. And hell yes, he'd be able to manage the effects pedal if he was given a second or two. Or maybe you missed his own respectable bank of switches and effects he has on stage...some of them are similar to Edge's. Edge also has a tech who can basically do everything he does, and then some. Like I said there is alot more going on than you clearly realize. Edge, much as I love him, is not getting up and going head to head with Prince on guitar. There's just no way in a million years.

3. As for Ida replacing Adam Clayton..surely you jest. Do you think Adam could just waltz up and play Purple Rain (let's pretend it's a simple one on bass for a sec). Flip the coin - are you seriously telling us that Ida couldn't get up and play With Or Without You or One? Seriously? Please tell me you aren't serious. Noone who has ever played a bass guitar would agree with you, period. It's sortof the cruel running joke about U2's music, one that I don't agree with, per se, but let's face it, Adam's parts are about as simple as they come. I don't care, their songs are more "sum of the parts make up the whole" type deal than individual virtuosos..

Look..this whole thing has turned into a U2 vs Prince thing, and guess what? I wouldn't in a million years say that Prince's show was better than maybe even ANY U2 show I've ever seen. It's a different kind of show, and I think each shines and moves me on it's own merits.

But on Saturday, at Prince, I had a hell of a good time and so did many of the people around me. When we were walking back to our cars noone had a complaint.

Get away from music for a sec: sports. Many people say that hockey is a "better" sport than basketball and that hockey players are more true athletes than basketball players. I grew up playing hockey and thinking the same thing. But let's not fool ourselves, basketball players are in their own right incredible athletes also and many hockey players I know have not been able to run a court for long periods like basketball players I know. An NBA game is a total package show like no other, to the point where the NHL has in the last 10 years started incorporating many of the same aspects to up the ante show-wise for the audience.

I call U2 the hockey, and Prince the basketball. Both are amazing.

[Edited 12/2/11 6:25am]