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Thread started 12/17/21 6:34pm

ben

Founder

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moderator

P&R forum closed & a few thoughts

Hi purple peeps -- I think the P&R forum no longer fits with what I want on the org. Too divisive a topic these days apparently. Let's keep it more on the music and generalities, with a focus on respecting, if not always loving, one another. Diverse opinions are to be celebrated and welcomed but let's avoid politics & religion at this time -- maybe one day it'll be something we can civilly discuss but I suspect prince.org won't be the best place for it, regardless sad

Thank you to everyone who has participated in the community and I apologize for any harm that has come from content on the site, that was never my intention. I have been busy with my "real life" these recent years and haven't had time to attend to the org. The only reason the org is still up is due to the thankless work of all the mods.

Moderating any of these forums is a ton of work. I owe each of them a huge debt! But it's also time to potentially get some 'fresh blood' involved. If you'd like to moderate, and think you can do so in a constructive manner to the community, please reach out to me at ben@prince.org and let's chat more.

Thanks for helping to continue to make prince.org a place for fans of our favorite musical genius, a pleasant place to visit. I hope these changes will help us stay on that path as well. I love the community and it's only as strong as all of you participating, and I'm sure I've failed you these recent years with my inattention. I'll try to do better, but completely understand if many of you would rather be elsewhere... that's OK, too. I want to bring light and happiness and connection into the world and if this isn't working for you here, and I can't fix it, I'm all about us figuring something else out, even if it's with people finding another outlet.

Let's be positive and be kind to each other. Thank you for reading.

Love,

Ben

ben -- "the prince.org guy"
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Reply #1 posted 12/17/21 8:08pm

PennyPurple

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Thank you Ben.


Can we start by bringing back the posters that were permabanned for no good reason? That is if they even want to come back.


Poppys, Diminuitve Rocker, Mdiver, Cborg, Latin, Shanti, and there are so many others.


Again, thank you Ben we really need new mods.

You can find me at Purpleandblack.org
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Reply #2 posted 12/17/21 8:30pm

TrivialPursuit

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PennyPurple said:

Thank you Ben.


Can we start by bringing back the posters that were permabanned for no good reason? That is if they even want to come back.


Poppys, Diminuitve Rocker, Mdiver, Cborg, Latin, Shanti, and there are so many others.


Again, thank you Ben we really need new mods.


I'd agree with this. Sometimes, a fresh start or a reboot is something everyone deserves. Permabans seem a bit extreme anyway.

To Ben's message: Yes, the Org has become incredibly divided, seems so more just this year than the previous four! Everyone's guilty of it. But not everyone's guilty of what they're accused of, either. I suppose at this point that's neither here nor there.

The thing we all have to remember is: we're all human beings, we all have real lives that are 99 44/100% more than anything we do on the Org. We're all guilty of judging each other for that 56/100% we see on the Org. I believe, wholeheartedly, that closing P&R, for now, is a wise decision. It's not censorship, nor should it be the wild wild west (as a sticky says). But the balance of healthy or even heated and respectful debate is long gone. For now.

The thing is, I believe, when people rant on like that, and try to shut every other person down who doesn't believe what they're saying only shows that they're scared. People operate through fear. I have, everyone has. But we are at our weakest when we are maneuvering through fear. Even Yoda said it, "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Perhaps if we all remember that some of us are suffering, whether it's our family dying of Covid; our mental health; being out of work; or just general life shit sorta dumping on us, we have our moments of suffering. We're here to forget that, not spew it on innocent people.

Confession: I have anxiety. A lot. It's limited me in many things, not all, that I've done in my life. I've lost jobs, friendships, and more from it. After talking to a few trained folks in the medical and mental health fields, I'm learning I'm probably on a spectrum somewhere. The pisser is there isn't a really great standardized test for it, and it's more meant to find in children, not adults. It's an imperfect thing, and maybe I'll end up not being on it. I don't talk about it, but shit - why not here? Why not on the Org for someone to pick apart?

Because maybe someone else, anyone else, can see that we're all really not that different. Prince is our commonality. We're not here to sell our wares, or ourselves. We're proud music snobs, interested and interesting folks who should be coming here to commune and converse, in some little miniscule corner of the internet.

The best time this place ever had was on a Zoom call, watching that Prince tribute when the Revolution played. Not one person started a fight or said shit about anyone. We were just loving Prince and our place in that world. Can we not just get back to that, a little bit?

Everyone take two steps back, breathe in, hold it a second... exhale, and just. calm. down.

(myself included)

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #3 posted 12/17/21 8:48pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

Well I guess that's the last we'll hear from Ian.


If you're pro human rights, then you should also be very pro freedom from oppression. Anything less is double standards.

Music is the best.
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Reply #4 posted 12/17/21 9:54pm

RenHoek

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moderator

PennyPurple said:

Thank you Ben.



Can we start by bringing back the posters that were permabanned for no good reason? That is if they even want to come back.



Poppys, Diminuitve Rocker, Mdiver, Cborg, Latin, Shanti, and there are so many others.



Again, thank you Ben we really need new mods.



I second this motion... rose
A working class Hero is something to be ~ Lennon
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Reply #5 posted 12/17/21 10:35pm

IanRG

fortuneandserendipity said:

Well I guess that's the last we'll hear from Ian.


.

This is exactly why the forum was closed.

.

The whole objective is to remove this type of response.

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Reply #6 posted 12/17/21 10:45pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

IanRG said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Well I guess that's the last we'll hear from Ian.


.

This is exactly why the forum was closed.

.

The whole objective is to remove this type of response.


Why, because of your shut down debate responses.

Good riddance to your toxicity.


If you're pro human rights, then you should also be very pro freedom from oppression. Anything less is double standards.

Music is the best.
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Reply #7 posted 12/17/21 10:48pm

IanRG

This is a real opportunity to make the whole of the site so much better.

.

As a person who came from Housequake, the reason I mainly only lurk in PM&M (And I do it every day) is the same issues have long existed there as in P&R. Whilst I am prepared to discuss my different opinions on politics, I am not prepare to disagree with anyone's opinion on music and especially not Prince's music.

.

We need to make the whole site more accepting, open and especially less about criticising people for liking the "wrong" era or the "wrong" style of Prince song. We need to make the site inviting for old fans, new fans and people just interested in Prince.

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Reply #8 posted 12/17/21 11:17pm

TrivialPursuit

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We all clearly need more dance, music, sex, and romance in our lives.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #9 posted 12/17/21 11:22pm

IanRG

TrivialPursuit said:

We all clearly need more dance, music, sex, and romance in our lives.

.

Or some Old Skool Funk:

.

"Ain't nothing ever come from complaining
Xcept a bitter heart, that's true."

.

I always remember when I had Prince on shuffle and Old Skool Funk was followed immediately by DMSR and how they fitted together.

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Reply #10 posted 12/18/21 12:09am

coldcoffeeandc
ocacola

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You haven't failed anyone ben.

I found this place in the early 00s and rejoined a few years ago and for me its been a constant where I've found out a lot of new things, especially in p and r
[Edited 12/18/21 0:22am]
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Reply #11 posted 12/18/21 4:22am

PJMcGee

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Good move. There's a reason why a lot of family gatherings have a No politics or religion rule.
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Reply #12 posted 12/18/21 7:01am

OnlyNDaUsa

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I saw this coming for sometime... Well we were told its days were numbered. I did like it but it was a distraction. I do wish it would be viewable... but I respect that it is just gone.


"There's a lady, 99 years old, If she led a good life, heaven takes her soul..." RIP Golden Girl Betty White.
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Reply #13 posted 12/18/21 7:13am

Empress

This is a very good decision. Thank you Ben. The P&R was so bad and full of racism bait on a daily basis. This site should be more of a celebration of the artist and other feel good topics instead of all the division and racism that it's become. Maybe we can all make the effort to be more positive and light-hearted on this site and make this a place fun to chat on again.
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Reply #14 posted 12/18/21 7:15am

Empress

TrivialPursuit said:



PennyPurple said:


Thank you Ben.



Can we start by bringing back the posters that were permabanned for no good reason? That is if they even want to come back.



Poppys, Diminuitve Rocker, Mdiver, Cborg, Latin, Shanti, and there are so many others.



Again, thank you Ben we really need new mods.




I'd agree with this. Sometimes, a fresh start or a reboot is something everyone deserves. Permabans seem a bit extreme anyway.

To Ben's message: Yes, the Org has become incredibly divided, seems so more just this year than the previous four! Everyone's guilty of it. But not everyone's guilty of what they're accused of, either. I suppose at this point that's neither here nor there.

The thing we all have to remember is: we're all human beings, we all have real lives that are 99 44/100% more than anything we do on the Org. We're all guilty of judging each other for that 56/100% we see on the Org. I believe, wholeheartedly, that closing P&R, for now, is a wise decision. It's not censorship, nor should it be the wild wild west (as a sticky says). But the balance of healthy or even heated and respectful debate is long gone. For now.

The thing is, I believe, when people rant on like that, and try to shut every other person down who doesn't believe what they're saying only shows that they're scared. People operate through fear. I have, everyone has. But we are at our weakest when we are maneuvering through fear. Even Yoda said it, "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Perhaps if we all remember that some of us are suffering, whether it's our family dying of Covid; our mental health; being out of work; or just general life shit sorta dumping on us, we have our moments of suffering. We're here to forget that, not spew it on innocent people.

Confession: I have anxiety. A lot. It's limited me in many things, not all, that I've done in my life. I've lost jobs, friendships, and more from it. After talking to a few trained folks in the medical and mental health fields, I'm learning I'm probably on a spectrum somewhere. The pisser is there isn't a really great standardized test for it, and it's more meant to find in children, not adults. It's an imperfect thing, and maybe I'll end up not being on it. I don't talk about it, but shit - why not here? Why not on the Org for someone to pick apart?

Because maybe someone else, anyone else, can see that we're all really not that different. Prince is our commonality. We're not here to sell our wares, or ourselves. We're proud music snobs, interested and interesting folks who should be coming here to commune and converse, in some little miniscule corner of the internet.

The best time this place ever had was on a Zoom call, watching that Prince tribute when the Revolution played. Not one person started a fight or said shit about anyone. We were just loving Prince and our place in that world. Can we not just get back to that, a little bit?

Everyone take two steps back, breathe in, hold it a second... exhale, and just. calm. down.

(myself included)



Well said, and I agree. POSITIVITY!!
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Reply #15 posted 12/18/21 8:10am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

ben said:

Hi purple peeps -- I think the P&R forum no longer fits with what I want on the org. Too divisive a topic these days apparently. Let's keep it more on the music and generalities, with a focus on respecting, if not always loving, one another. Diverse opinions are to be celebrated and welcomed but let's avoid politics & religion at this time -- maybe one day it'll be something we can civilly discuss but I suspect prince.org won't be the best place for it, regardless sad

Thank you to everyone who has participated in the community and I apologize for any harm that has come from content on the site, that was never my intention. I have been busy with my "real life" these recent years and haven't had time to attend to the org. The only reason the org is still up is due to the thankless work of all the mods.

Moderating any of these forums is a ton of work. I owe each of them a huge debt! But it's also time to potentially get some 'fresh blood' involved. If you'd like to moderate, and think you can do so in a constructive manner to the community, please reach out to me at ben@prince.org and let's chat more.

Thanks for helping to continue to make prince.org a place for fans of our favorite musical genius, a pleasant place to visit. I hope these changes will help us stay on that path as well. I love the community and it's only as strong as all of you participating, and I'm sure I've failed you these recent years with my inattention. I'll try to do better, but completely understand if many of you would rather be elsewhere... that's OK, too. I want to bring light and happiness and connection into the world and if this isn't working for you here, and I can't fix it, I'm all about us figuring something else out, even if it's with people finding another outlet.

Let's be positive and be kind to each other. Thank you for reading.

Love,

Ben

ya think I ought to apply?

"There's a lady, 99 years old, If she led a good life, heaven takes her soul..." RIP Golden Girl Betty White.
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Reply #16 posted 12/18/21 8:22am

Empress

OnlyNDaUsa said:



ben said:


Hi purple peeps -- I think the P&R forum no longer fits with what I want on the org. Too divisive a topic these days apparently. Let's keep it more on the music and generalities, with a focus on respecting, if not always loving, one another. Diverse opinions are to be celebrated and welcomed but let's avoid politics & religion at this time -- maybe one day it'll be something we can civilly discuss but I suspect prince.org won't be the best place for it, regardless sad




Thank you to everyone who has participated in the community and I apologize for any harm that has come from content on the site, that was never my intention. I have been busy with my "real life" these recent years and haven't had time to attend to the org. The only reason the org is still up is due to the thankless work of all the mods.




Moderating any of these forums is a ton of work. I owe each of them a huge debt! But it's also time to potentially get some 'fresh blood' involved. If you'd like to moderate, and think you can do so in a constructive manner to the community, please reach out to me at ben@prince.org and let's chat more.




Thanks for helping to continue to make prince.org a place for fans of our favorite musical genius, a pleasant place to visit. I hope these changes will help us stay on that path as well. I love the community and it's only as strong as all of you participating, and I'm sure I've failed you these recent years with my inattention. I'll try to do better, but completely understand if many of you would rather be elsewhere... that's OK, too. I want to bring light and happiness and connection into the world and if this isn't working for you here, and I can't fix it, I'm all about us figuring something else out, even if it's with people finding another outlet.




Let's be positive and be kind to each other. Thank you for reading.




Love,


Ben






ya think I ought to apply?



No!
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Reply #17 posted 12/18/21 8:28am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Empress said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

ya think I ought to apply?

No!

lol yeah I am thinking that if there was a list of "oh hell no" I would be near the top.

"There's a lady, 99 years old, If she led a good life, heaven takes her soul..." RIP Golden Girl Betty White.
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Reply #18 posted 12/18/21 3:19pm

PennyPurple

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

ya think I ought to apply?

Part of the problem was with a mod (bye,bye), who is just like you so no I don't think that's a good idea.


Hopefully Ben will get rid of the other bad mods, 1 in particular and reverse all of the permabans so people can join back up, if they want to. How about it Ben? Can you reverse all the permabans?


Problem wasn't really P&R, it was the way P&R was ran.

You can find me at Purpleandblack.org
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Reply #19 posted 12/18/21 4:08pm

TrivialPursuit

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Empress said:

Well said, and I agree. POSITIVITY!!


yes

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #20 posted 12/18/21 10:52pm

jjhunsecker

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PennyPurple said:



OnlyNDaUsa said:









ya think I ought to apply?



Part of the problem was with a mod (bye,bye), who is just like you so no I don't think that's a good idea.



Hopefully Ben will get rid of the other bad mods, 1 in particular and reverse all of the permabans so people can join back up, if they want to. How about it Ben? Can you reverse all the permabans?



Problem wasn't really P&R, it was the way P&R was ran.



I chose to walk away from this site after being here for several years... mainly because that forum had become the personal blog of one individual who moderated based on their whims and prejudices and obsessions, and not on any semblance of rationality and certainly no sense of fairness... The situations became unbearable and untenable. Sometimes it’s better for everyone if a patient dies instead on hanging on in a vegetative state. I always say I would rather be dead than senile.

One suggestion: a moderator should not be allowed to moderate a thread that they are also posting in. No sport allows a player in the game to also be a referee.
And now I walk away once again....
[Edited 12/18/21 23:04pm]
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #21 posted 12/19/21 1:45am

S2DG

Thanks Ben!

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Reply #22 posted 12/19/21 5:01am

uPtoWnNY

jjhunsecker said:

PennyPurple said:

Part of the problem was with a mod (bye,bye), who is just like you so no I don't think that's a good idea.


Hopefully Ben will get rid of the other bad mods, 1 in particular and reverse all of the permabans so people can join back up, if they want to. How about it Ben? Can you reverse all the permabans?


Problem wasn't really P&R, it was the way P&R was ran.

I chose to walk away from this site after being here for several years... mainly because that forum had become the personal blog of one individual who moderated based on their whims and prejudices and obsessions, and not on any semblance of rationality and certainly no sense of fairness... The situations became unbearable and untenable. Sometimes it’s better for everyone if a patient dies instead on hanging on in a vegetative state. I always say I would rather be dead than senile. One suggestion: a moderator should not be allowed to moderate a thread that they are also posting in. No sport allows a player in the game to also be a referee. And now I walk away once again.... [Edited 12/18/21 23:04pm]

nod

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Reply #23 posted 12/19/21 8:07am

MarkThrust

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uPtoWnNY said:

jjhunsecker said:

I chose to walk away from this site after being here for several years... mainly because that forum had become the personal blog of one individual who moderated based on their whims and prejudices and obsessions, and not on any semblance of rationality and certainly no sense of fairness... The situations became unbearable and untenable. Sometimes it’s better for everyone if a patient dies instead on hanging on in a vegetative state. I always say I would rather be dead than senile. One suggestion: a moderator should not be allowed to moderate a thread that they are also posting in. No sport allows a player in the game to also be a referee. And now I walk away once again.... [Edited 12/18/21 23:04pm]

nod

I gave up for the same reasons. I came back to check on things a few days before the take-down, and more than 90% of the threads were started by the same person, under a stickified thread by the same person about thread flooding. I do kind of wish that the forum could have been saved & viewable in it's final state as a nice monument to authoritarianism. biggrin

.

Thanks to those who kept it going when the forum was strong. I posted very little, but got a lot of value from seeing people from all over the world posting, and seeing perspectives I would otherwise haven't considered.

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Reply #24 posted 12/19/21 10:35am

2freaky4church
1

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The right wing basically took over the threads. The divisive content was getting shocking--people not understanding basic facts. I'm a political junky so this will break my heart. Politics is the most important part of society, to be honest, because these times are dangerous. Climate change and the pandemics are killing us.

Now I am forced to deal with the shitshow that is Reddit. lol

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #25 posted 12/19/21 12:40pm

TrivialPursuit

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2freaky4church1 said:

The right wing basically took over the threads. The divisive content was getting shocking--people not understanding basic facts. I'm a political junky so this will break my heart. Politics is the most important part of society, to be honest, because these times are dangerous.


You're very spot on with that, 2freaky. It was like NewsMax over there. And I know some folks really like to dig into politics, if for no other reason than to just talk about things. But I do believe it's a great move for the Org, and should stay closed for... dare I say it, a good year at least. A month or even six months isn't going to cool the fire the way it should be tempered.

And quite honestly, we don't need it here. There are places like Reddit or wherever that people can talk about politics and certainly get their fill.

I don't believe politics is the most important part of society. People are, and that's where politics will always fail: it never considered humanity. It only considers itself. And that was the death of the P&R forum: humanity was forgotten in lieu of one's own self-interest in race baiting moderators and their supporters. Goddamn, was it prince.org or a freakin' MAGA rally? hehehe

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #26 posted 12/19/21 1:18pm

IanRG

TrivialPursuit said:

2freaky4church1 said:

The right wing basically took over the threads. The divisive content was getting shocking--people not understanding basic facts. I'm a political junky so this will break my heart. Politics is the most important part of society, to be honest, because these times are dangerous.


You're very spot on with that, 2freaky. It was like NewsMax over there. And I know some folks really like to dig into politics, if for no other reason than to just talk about things. But I do believe it's a great move for the Org, and should stay closed for... dare I say it, a good year at least. A month or even six months isn't going to cool the fire the way it should be tempered.

And quite honestly, we don't need it here. There are places like Reddit or wherever that people can talk about politics and certainly get their fill.

I don't believe politics is the most important part of society. People are, and that's where politics will always fail: it never considered humanity. It only considers itself. And that was the death of the P&R forum: humanity was forgotten in lieu of one's own self-interest in race baiting moderators and their supporters. Goddamn, was it prince.org or a freakin' MAGA rally? hehehe

.

Already the place feels better - the same problems persist, but the air is clearer.

.

There may be a need for separate place to discuss controversial things in the future, lest they take over other forums. However, a good solid break and better way of managing moderation is needed first. We have already seen a Jossie Smollett thread here and one person seek to attack others in this thread.

.

I agree that politics is not the most important part of society but everything can be reduced to the level of politics. It is a good way to think of is as ignoring that people are the most important part of society - when you put your politics before people, especially other people, you have already lost your way.

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Reply #27 posted 12/19/21 3:00pm

kpowers

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Don't turn General Disscussion into P&R

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Reply #28 posted 12/19/21 3:29pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

IanRG said:

Already the place feels better - the same problems persist, but the air is clearer.

.

There may be a need for separate place to discuss controversial things in the future, lest they take over other forums. However, a good solid break and better way of managing moderation is needed first. We have already seen a Jossie Smollett thread here and one person seek to attack others in this thread.

.

I agree that politics is not the most important part of society but everything can be reduced to the level of politics. It is a good way to think of is as ignoring that people are the most important part of society - when you put your politics before people, especially other people, you have already lost your way.


I have to say, I agree with that. It feels like a window's been opened. I'm hopeful about the future of the Org.

And yes, when politics goes before people doesn't benefit anyone. The person just lives in a vacuum, and... how boring is that?


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #29 posted 12/19/21 3:49pm

kpowers

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

The right wing basically took over the threads. The divisive content was getting shocking--people not understanding basic facts. I'm a political junky so this will break my heart. Politics is the most important part of society, to be honest, because these times are dangerous. Climate change and the pandemics are killing us.

Now I am forced to deal with the shitshow that is Reddit. lol

Really?????? Your the number one hijacker of threads on the org.

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