Scorp said:

laurarichardson said:

There are stories that Q is gay and those have been going around for years.

wait a minute though....wait a minute though....

double standards flying all over the place......

how can King of Pop fans talk about a Quincy Jones and supposed stories/rumors/innuendo and overllook the reality that Michael faced two rounds of allegations during his career.......I can't comprehend that....

before any KOP fan overreacts, I don't believe MJ committed those acts he was accused of.......and in over 50 years, the stories about Quincy Jones and whatever has been said (mainly people posting stuff on social media) has never been substantiated

why? why not, cuz i don't like q and he does some strange shit.

Scorp said:

laurarichardson said:

There are stories that Q is gay and those have been going around for years.

wait a minute though....wait a minute though....

double standards flying all over the place......

how can King of Pop fans talk about a Quincy Jones and supposed stories/rumors/innuendo and overllook the reality that Michael faced two rounds of allegations during his career.......I can't comprehend that....

before any KOP fan overreacts, I don't believe MJ committed those acts he was accused of.......and in over 50 years, the stories about Quincy Jones and whatever has been said (mainly people posting stuff on social media) has never been substantiated

How is Pete a "King of Pop fan" when he's been vocal with his criticisms of Michael?

[Edited 7/24/17 19:36pm]

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7874099/michael-jackson-estate-lawyers-quincy-jones-trial-exclusive

Michael Jackson Estate Lawyers on What to Expect as Quincy Jones Trial Closes: Exclusive
Billboard

7/24/2017 by Justino Aguila

If Michael Jackson could see that his longtime friend and collaborator Quincy Jones was suing him in court for millions of dollars, “Michael would be rolling over in his grave,” says entertainment attorney Howard Weitzman, whose team is representing the Jackson estate in the case.

Weitzman, along with attorney Zia Modabber, spoke with Billboard exclusively as they prepared to head to Los Angeles Superior Court on Monday to convince a jury in their closing arguments that Jones is not entitled to receive the additional $30 million he is seeking in royalties. The case pits the legendary 84-year-old producer against the estate of the King of Pop, who died eight years ago after his doctor administered a fatal cocktail of medications.

Jones, who testified in court last week, maintains that he’s owed the royalties for the use of the songs from Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad and the film This Is It, among other projects. Jones has already received about $18 million in royalties since Jackson’s death, according to testimony given during the trial; his legal team did not respond to a request for comment.


Quincy Jones Takes the Stand in Michael Jackson Royalties Trial

But after nearly three weeks presenting a jury with evidence, testimony, music and line-by-line royalty summaries in an effort to prove that Jones is only entitled to a share of record sales, Weitzman says that he believes that the primary reason Jones is unhappy is because his name was left out of the credits for the film This Is It. The estate acknowledged that the omission was an error and said Jones received an apology.

Weitzman and Modabber spoke to Billboard about the trial so far and what to expect from their closing argument Monday, which they promise will be “entertaining.”

What are your thoughts about the trial up to this point?

Weitzman: For us this case is kind of a simple breach-of-contract case, and Mr. Jones wants money that he's not entitled to. He's been paid every time his masters have been used. He's been paid his fees for all the recordings and he wants additional money, and we don't think he's entitled to it. He has testified that he doesn't care what the contract says. This case was filed four years after Michael died. It appears from the testimony that he [Jones] became upset because he did not get proper credit in the film This Is It.

Why didn't Jones get credit for the film This Is It?
Weitzman: We made a mistake, to be that blunt. He wasn't involved in anything about the movie. Obviously he produced the masters in the late '70s and through the mid '80s on those three albums, Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad, and he's certainly entitled to credit as a producer on those masters. Yes, he should have gotten the credit, but I'm not sure how that gets you on a platform to jump off and file a lawsuit four years after Michael died and after This Is It was released. He basically suggested that he didn't care what the contract says and that he should [be part of] Michael's 1991 joint venture with Sony.

Modabber: The movie This Is It was rehearsal footage [from Michael] that was never intended to be publicized. The vocals and the audio weren't perfect. Michael owned these master recordings and so they went to those recordings that he owned, and they were edited in bits and pieces in the movie to make it sound bettet.


Quincy Jones Earned $18 Million in Royalties Since Michael Jackson's Death


Weitzman: And Quincy got paid his fees on that.

Modabber: He got paid his fees using the exact same formula that is always used when masters that a producer produces are used in a movie. He got paid for Michael's masters being in the movie, something like $400,000 or $500,000, but he [Jones] has learned through this lawsuit that the estate has made something like $90 million and we think he's really upset that the estate made all this money, and he and his lawyers don't seem to have the ability to comprehend that the contributions of those masters for that movie is really a tiny little piece of what it was.

Weitzman: What we [the estate] are supposed to do is exploit the assets post death, and we got pretty lucky with This Is It and who knew? But it wasn't about the music. It was about Michael. Nobody would be buying tickets to the theater to listen to snippets of the masters.

Modabber: Take a step back and think about how much of that money is attributable to the snippets of the masters. The testimony came in that they paid a little over $4 million for all the masters in the movie. Quincy Jones is not the producer on all the masters. He's the producer on two-thirds of the masters. He gets his producer's share, which is a fraction. He doesn't get all that money. The money goes to the owner of the masters and Sony. Sony Music is the distributor. That is a truckload of money for one producer to make for snippets. It's the most amount of money that has ever been paid for master-use fees, maybe in the history of movies.

Do you believe that Jones deserves to receive some money?

Weitzman: Quincy Jones had the right to audit the record company directly for his producer royalties and he has done that for decades and it's always been worked out. That audit process was started before this lawsuit was started and the record company has calculated that Quincy has been underpaid by just under $400,000. In the real world when a record company says, "Okay we found these mistakes," and it's $400,000, it probably settles for a little bit more than that. Maybe it settles for $500,000 or $600,000 or $700,000. We told the jury that mistakes were made and he's owed some money. You've got a guy with a zillion different records sold in a zillion different ways in a zillion different places. Mistakes were made. It's the record business, but nobody is fighting about that. [Music attorney] John [Branca] testified that he told Howard to go offer him $2 or $3 million, five times what the record company found that he was owed by these mistakes and that was not good enough.

How much has the estate made since Michael's death?

Weitzman: It's been hundreds of millions of dollars.

Modabber: On top of paying all of the debt.

His children benefit from that?

Weitzman: They are the only beneficiaries.

How is the family dealing with this case?

The family is not involved because they are not beneficiaries although part of the estate's responsibility is to take care of Mrs. Jackson for her life, which we do. The children don't really know Mr. Jones and they are just aghast but they are not really involved because they didn't deal with him, and they were young when the This Is It film was made.

What are your plans if Jones receives a significant amount of money?

Weitzman: If it's zero the only impact is that we had to spend money for the lawyers to defend the case and go through the aggravation and anxiety. If he gets [major] money obviously there is a process post-trial, and we'll take advantage of all that, and sometime in the future if there is no relief there, then he'll get paid.

What are the legal costs for this case?

Modabber: A lot. These are on both sides. It's an expensive case.

How do you want Michael Jackson to be remembered?

Weitzman: I want him to continue to be remembered as one of the great musical entertainers of all time.

Modabber: That sums it up.

How are you preparing for the closing arguments?

Weitzman: We don't want to share that ... we would like a element of surprise. Zia and I are going to split up the argument, but let me say this: it will be entertaining.

Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson’s Estate Duel Over Contract Wording in Royalties Trial http://variety.com/2017/m...202504981/

A Los Angeles jury on Monday heard closing arguments in a music royalties trial pitting veteran music producer Quincy Jones against the estate of Michael Jackson, who dueled over whether Jones had been underpaid.

Jones claims he is owed $30 million in unpaid royalties and licensing fees for music he produced and that was used after the singer’s death in Cirque du Soleil shows and the film “This Is It.”

The civil case spanned just over two weeks in Los Angeles Superior Court and will be decided by a 12-member jury that begins deliberations this week.

During the closing arguments, attorneys for both sides accused the other of “word games” as they took their last shot to persuade the jury. They offered conflicting interpretations of contract language, urging them to consider how Jones had been paid under two previous producing contracts he signed with Jackson.

Scott Cole, an attorney for Jones, said the producer was wrongly cut out of the deals Jackson’s estate had negotiated for the “This Is It” documentary and the two Cirque shows. Jones’ attorneys argued that a previous contract signed by Jackson and Jones should have counted those reproductions as “records” and be paid accordingly. Under the terms of the past contract, Jones should have been given first shot at remixing the songs, they argued.

“From 1978, up until Michael’s death, this partnership worked as it should have,” Cole said, painting his client as someone who is not litigious. “After seven decades, Quincy Jones filed his first-ever lawsuit,” he said.

Using a projection screen, the two sides highlighted for the jurors contract language and other materials that they said bolstered their sides.

Jones’ team referenced a letter of direction by Jackson telling Sony how to calculate royalties payable to Jones. Howard Weitzman, attorney for the Jackson estate, pointed to Jones’ testimony on Friday as evidence that the producer does not care what the language contract says and is instead seeking to make more money on top of royalties already paid.

Attorneys for Michael Jackson’s estate acknowledge Jones is owed some money – between $2 million and $3 million – but they contend that Jones is wrongly trying to be paid more money than he is entitled to.

These are “claims that never came up while Michael was alive,” said Zia Modabber, an attorney for Jackson’s estate, accusing Jones and his legal team of a “tortured” interpretation of the past contracts.

The lucrative joint ventures that came after Jackson’s death generated roughly $500 million for the estate, which benefits, among others, Jackson’s three children. Modabber said that Jones had been paid $18 million since Jackson’s death and that “the way Mr. Jones got paid did not change.” The film and the Cirque shows, he said, were deals independent of the past contracts Jones had with Jackson.

Modabber added: “Mr. Jones’ work ended 20 years ago. He wasn’t given more in the new deal.”

At times, Jones, 84, who wore a dark, pin-striped suit and sat in a wheel chair during the proceedings, would shake his head and scoff during the defense’s closing argument.

He produced three albums with Jackson: “Off the Wall,” “Thriller,” and “Bad.” He filed the lawsuit in 2013, four years after the singer died.

Jury Begins Deliberations in Quincy Jones-Michael Jackson Estate Royalties Dispute
http://www.hollywoodrepor...te-1023965
Jones says he's owed $30 million, while Jackson's estate puts it closer to $400,000.

Talk of "word games" dominated closing arguments in the royalties trial between Quincy Jones and a company owned by Michael Jackson's estate — and a jury of 10 women and two men will soon have to define terms like "record" and "videoshow" to determine how much money, if any, the producer is owed.

Jones sued MJJ Productions in 2013, claiming that after the King of Pop's death Jones was shorted tens of millions in royalties and wrongfully denied the opportunity to remix works he created with the artist. The estate says some run of the mill accounting errors did cause Jones to be shorted, but he's owed about $392,000 — not the $30 million he's asking for.

Closing arguments ended just before lunch Monday in a crowded downtown courtroom. So crowded, in fact, the legal teams used "seat fillers" to make sure all of their people had a seat — leaving several members of the press hunkered near the entrance, pressed up against a wall to avoid the judge's line of sight. The courtroom assistant warned that if the judge saw them peeking around the corner, he'd kick them out.

Jones attorney Scott Cole led off closings by telling the jury the case was about two men and "the landmark music they created." He described MJJ's defense as nothing more than "word games and loopholes" and emphasized that this is the first time in a seven-decade career that Jones has ever filed a lawsuit.

Because the dispute centers on two contracts, the 1978 and 1985 producer agreements between Jones and Jackson, the precise definitions of words are key. Under the deals, Jones is entitled to a share of record royalties from Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad. The parties dispute whether Jones should share in the profits from Jackson's 1991 joint venture with Sony, and whether he should share in net profits from movies instead of licensing fees from the songs used in them.

Jones argues that the This is It documentary counts as a "videoshow" under his contract, and he's entitled to a share of net receipts. Meanwhile, MJJ says the term is used for things like music videos and isn't relevant here.

The jury will also have to decide what it means to "remix" a song. Jones says his contract gives him right of first refusal to remix any of the works he produced for Jackson, while MJJ says that right was limited to remixes ordered by Sony (then Epic) at the time the albums were being produced.

MJJ attorneys Zia Modabber and Howard Weitzman split closing arguments for the defense.

Modabber reiterated that the Sony joint venture was announced in the early '90s, and Jones didn't complain about his stake until two decades later. He also notes that Jackson's death has been lucrative for the producer. In the two years prior to his June 25, 2009, passing, Jones made $3 million from his share of their works. In the two years after Jackson's death, Jones made $8 million.

While reminding the jury that Jackson isn't here to defend himself, Modabber imagined the artist would say to Jones, "You didn't make me."

When Weitzman took over, he turned the focus to the words Jones used during his testimony. Specifically, he questioned Jones' claim that he doesn't care about the contract and isn't bringing this case because of money. He also said that allowing Jones to claim a share of net receipts on the documentary would be like telling the theater audience that, when they bought their tickets, they really bought a record.

Weitzman also reminded the jury that Jones has cashed $18 million in checks since Jackson's death and continues to be paid per MJJ's interpretation of their deal. He then asked the jury to send Jones a message: "You don't deserve a raise. You can't have any more of Michael Jackson's money."

Jones attorney Mike McKool picked back up for his team, and pointed out that Jackson's estate has made about half a billion in profits since the artist died. "This is a lot of money," he told the jury. "We all know that."

Both sides point to a jury instruction about how to interpret the terms in a contract, and, interestingly, both say it is an asset to their respective arguments. Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Stern read it as part of jury instructions just after the lunch recess. In short, he told jurors that in order to interpret what the words in a contract mean, they can consider the actions of the parties from the time that it was signed until the moment the dispute began. So how the jurors feel Jones, Jackson and MJJ treated the business relationship from 1985 until 2013 will likely be a key factor in their decision.

Stern also reminded the jurors that they only need to decide whether an allegation is "more likely to be true than untrue" and nine jurors out of 12 must agree on each question on the verdict form before moving on to the next. Deliberations began at approximately 2:30 p.m.

[Edited 7/24/17 21:26pm]

sounds like a confusing mess, it does sound like, (i'm no lawyer) that q is just being greedy for money and credit. I can't see why he would deserve money from the movie or why would he deserve first crack at reediting Michael's music. doest that mean the music completed years after q and MJ split up? why would he deserve any access to that? I don't get it. I originally thought q was going off of contracts, now he's saying he doesnt' care about the contract that he wants more money. well, if it's not in a contract, he's not entitled to it.

PeteSilas said:

sounds like a confusing mess, it does sound like, (i'm no lawyer) that q is just being greedy for money and credit. I can't see why he would deserve money from the movie or why would he deserve first crack at reediting Michael's music. doest that mean the music completed years after q and MJ split up? why would he deserve any access to that? I don't get it. I originally thought q was going off of contracts, now he's saying he doesnt' care about the contract that he wants more money. well, if it's not in a contract, he's not entitled to it.

It seems the contract MJ and Q had gave him first choice to remix the songs they put out, so the songs included on Off The Wall, Thriller, and Bad, and those alone. I think that was why when they put out Bad25, they didn't include the material that was left off that Quincy produced and only put out demos Michael worked on at Hayvenhurst with his team.

If I remember correctly, Michael went to Q to get his blessing for the remixes on Thriller 25

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

sounds like a confusing mess, it does sound like, (i'm no lawyer) that q is just being greedy for money and credit. I can't see why he would deserve money from the movie or why would he deserve first crack at reediting Michael's music. doest that mean the music completed years after q and MJ split up? why would he deserve any access to that? I don't get it. I originally thought q was going off of contracts, now he's saying he doesnt' care about the contract that he wants more money. well, if it's not in a contract, he's not entitled to it.

It seems the contract MJ and Q had gave him first choice to remix the songs they put out, so the songs included on Off The Wall, Thriller, and Bad, and those alone. I think that was why when they put out Bad25, they didn't include the material that was left off that Quincy produced and only put out demos Michael worked on at Hayvenhurst with his team.

If I remember correctly, Michael went to Q to get his blessing for the remixes on Thriller 25

that's what i thought but with all the above, it sounds pretty convoluted and confusing. I would think it's a no brainer that he should recieve whatever's in the contract, but i'm wondering why or if he's trying to go beyond the contract. I would say he doesn't deserve anymore. You'd never see Elvis' or the Beatles' original producers trying to sue them for money they made after they left because they don't have anyting to do with the music they made later on other than using what they previously may have learned, which I don't think is sueable, to be able to sue someone for gaining experience with you. I'm wondering if q might be getting greedy, i don't think anyone shorts him on credit, if anything, I think he gets too much, everyone knows who he is. Lots of music people go to their graves without being acknowledged for their contributions, maybe he's just being a prima donna.

PeteSilas said:

bboy87 said:

It seems the contract MJ and Q had gave him first choice to remix the songs they put out, so the songs included on Off The Wall, Thriller, and Bad, and those alone. I think that was why when they put out Bad25, they didn't include the material that was left off that Quincy produced and only put out demos Michael worked on at Hayvenhurst with his team.

If I remember correctly, Michael went to Q to get his blessing for the remixes on Thriller 25

that's what i thought but with all the above, it sounds pretty convoluted and confusing. I would think it's a no brainer that he should recieve whatever's in the contract, but i'm wondering why or if he's trying to go beyond the contract. I would say he doesn't deserve anymore. You'd never see Elvis' or the Beatles' original producers trying to sue them for money they made after they left because they don't have anyting to do with the music they made later on other than using what they previously may have learned, which I don't think is sueable, to be able to sue someone for gaining experience with you. I'm wondering if q might be getting greedy, i don't think anyone shorts him on credit, if anything, I think he gets too much, everyone knows who he is. Lots of music people go to their graves without being acknowledged for their contributions, maybe he's just being a prima donna.

If he has a contract they have to pay him what they would have owed him and they could be penelized for breching the contract. Also if Q is owed royalties it could be back a substantial amount of money. Also this case has been goi ng on since 2012 so Q has racked up a quite a legal bill so he is going to ask for more than what he is due to cover that expense. I doubt he gets 30 million but I would bet he will get something and I wil bet the idiot estate managers will fight the judgement and this will continue to drag on. It gets down to egos.

If they owed him they should have just paid him from the beginning and I cannot understand why they did not want him involved with the projects.

I'm sure he's getting paid, but it's also good to keep in mind what he may have been owed from a past contract, that rate has to have been adjusted with time somehow, on top of it, royalties from products using music from OTW-Thriller-Bad posthumously ala Cirque Du Soilel. So about $30 million sounds right, and giving him a small settlement does no justice to the work. It's business, you don't have to like or agree with his comments about mj in recent years, and he's entitled to his share and deserves more respect.

[Edited 7/25/17 6:53am]

alphastreet said:

I'm sure he's getting paid, but it's also good to keep in mind what he may have been owed from a past contract, that rate has to have been adjusted with time somehow, on top of it, royalties from products using music from OTW-Thriller-Bad posthumously ala Cirque Du Soilel. So about $30 million sounds right, and giving him a small settlement does no justice to the work. It's business, you don't have to like or agree with his comments about mj in recent years, and he's entitled to his share and deserves more respect.

[Edited 7/25/17 6:53am]

.

FUCKIN' A - cosign, 100%.

.

Go on and get yours, Q.

Quincy isn't fucking "greedy". Those albums are just as much his as they are Michael's. And they keep using the original tracks QUINCY produced 40 to 30 years ago for shows like Cirque du Soleil's ONE in Las Vegas.

i agree that he should be paid for his work, but it sounds like he's trying to go past that, into mj's later work, i don't know, but if he's doing that? then ya, he's being greedy.

SoulAlive said:

I'm glad that this case is almost over.It's not a good look for either side Michael would roll over in his grave if he could see what's been going on since his death

alphastreet said:

alphastreet said:

I'm sure he's getting paid, but it's also good to keep in mind what he may have been owed from a past contract, that rate has to have been adjusted with time somehow, on top of it, royalties from products using music from OTW-Thriller-Bad posthumously ala Cirque Du Soilel. So about $30 million sounds right, and giving him a small settlement does no justice to the work. It's business, you don't have to like or agree with his comments about mj in recent years, and he's entitled to his share and deserves more respect.

[Edited 7/25/17 6:53am]

If they can prove that Quincy is owed money I agree that they should pay him, but that doesn't necessarily mean he deserves respect because he doesn't as far as I am concern.

yup, i've never forgiven q for the things he said after MJ died. and also, having had a mentor who was a lot like q, a guy who says all the right things but isn't about shit, that doesn't help either. I'm skeptical of all people in a leadership position now and i'd have it no other way. I still think q was a really sharp, talented guy, he's managed to put himself into many historical positions, you can't do that without some real good instincts and intelligence. He has had quite a life, in a way, his life is american history of the last 60 years, he knew ray charles pre-fame, he knew Malcolm X prefame, the list of talent he's been in contact with would put anyone to shame. He's also a fine producer, MJ brought the tunes but Quincy added some nice shit to them. Michael used to say "i don't know what quincy does" which is a cryptic statement and maybe was a portent of later troubles between the two because it just isn't that easy to pin down exactly what he did for michael. Of course he sponsored him, he put his name on him, he had a generations worth of hollywood contacts by the time mj got with him, he was a prolific composer. I just happen to think his ex-wife had a point when she called him a psychopath. Here is a guy who'll slap you on the back and yuck it all up but wont' go to your funeral because "it's enough". Not the kind of guy I want around. Unfortunately, in the celeb worshipping culture, there will always be people to kiss his ass, i mentioned his recent seattle trip, word was that he was just a real social whirlwind, talking to any and every musician who came up to hhim, showing great interest in their life stories. I think he's a conman at least to a degree.

PeteSilas said:

yup, i've never forgiven q for the things he said after MJ died. and also, having had a mentor who was a lot like q, a guy who says all the right things but isn't about shit, that doesn't help either. I'm skeptical of all people in a leadership position now and i'd have it no other way. I still think q was a really sharp, talented guy, he's managed to put himself into many historical positions, you can't do that without some real good instincts and intelligence. He has had quite a life, in a way, his life is american history of the last 60 years, he knew ray charles pre-fame, he knew Malcolm X prefame, the list of talent he's been in contact with would put anyone to shame. He's also a fine producer, MJ brought the tunes but Quincy added some nice shit to them. Michael used to say "i don't know what quincy does" which is a cryptic statement and maybe was a portent of later troubles between the two because it just isn't that easy to pin down exactly what he did for michael. Of course he sponsored him, he put his name on him, he had a generations worth of hollywood contacts by the time mj got with him, he was a prolific composer. I just happen to think his ex-wife had a point when she called him a psychopath. Here is a guy who'll slap you on the back and yuck it all up but wont' go to your funeral because "it's enough". Not the kind of guy I want around. Unfortunately, in the celeb worshipping culture, there will always be people to kiss his ass, i mentioned his recent seattle trip, word was that he was just a real social whirlwind, talking to any and every musician who came up to hhim, showing great interest in their life stories. I think he's a conman at least to a degree.

I agree. The things Quincy has said about MJ are unforgivable and shows that he was never a friend to him but I stopped caring for Q long ago even before MJ passed away. Quincy is very fake and arrogant.

PeteSilas said:

yup, i've never forgiven q for the things he said after MJ died. and also, having had a mentor who was a lot like q, a guy who says all the right things but isn't about shit, that doesn't help either. I'm skeptical of all people in a leadership position now and i'd have it no other way. I still think q was a really sharp, talented guy, he's managed to put himself into many historical positions, you can't do that without some real good instincts and intelligence. He has had quite a life, in a way, his life is american history of the last 60 years, he knew ray charles pre-fame, he knew Malcolm X prefame, the list of talent he's been in contact with would put anyone to shame. He's also a fine producer, MJ brought the tunes but Quincy added some nice shit to them. Michael used to say "i don't know what quincy does" which is a cryptic statement and maybe was a portent of later troubles between the two because it just isn't that easy to pin down exactly what he did for michael. Of course he sponsored him, he put his name on him, he had a generations worth of hollywood contacts by the time mj got with him, he was a prolific composer. I just happen to think his ex-wife had a point when she called him a psychopath. Here is a guy who'll slap you on the back and yuck it all up but wont' go to your funeral because "it's enough". Not the kind of guy I want around. Unfortunately, in the celeb worshipping culture, there will always be people to kiss his ass, i mentioned his recent seattle trip, word was that he was just a real social whirlwind, talking to any and every musician who came up to hhim, showing great interest in their life stories. I think he's a conman at least to a degree.

This comment shows just how tragic this story has become and how bad the majority of King of Pop fans have been misled because they refuse to set aside the false image Michael Jackson presented to the world post-Thriller and in particular he started to do with the release of Bad in 1987......the same exact false image that destroyed him on every single level whereas everything that was a part of his great past has been marginilized, undermined, and vilified, and that hatred has cut into the most successful period of his career involved music's most successful collaboration we're every going to see, and when everything was set for this to be the greatest story ever seen in the history of music has literally transformed into the greatest nightmare....and it's all rooted in MJ's false image, whereas if he did not go that route which was predicated by his transformation............none of this antagonism, none of this hostility, none of this backbite would exist in the universe today regarding this entertainer.........this is all time tragic, this is really beyond tragic.

outside of Michael Jackson, every single artist/musician/performer....black or white, man or woman, american or beyond, from the mid 50s up until the point before he began working with Michael Jackson, and post-collaboration with Michael Jackson, from just about all the musical tree of genres, have never ever had anything bad to say about him...not one and I've followed Quincy's career since the 70s when he was already the best musical producer in the world before Michael began crafting his adult solo career...

anyone can take Quincy's resume and stack it up with any other producer ever credited with cutting a record and he's going to stand and remain at the top of the heap becaaaaaaaaaaauuuusee, he understood how to get the very best out of the artist he worked with and he always say "the product of a great record is not achieved by one person, but from the contribution of many", and we can see the very embodiment of that belief in the work Michael Jackaon and he achieved together....THAT should be the story to remember but it's not going to be and that's what's so sad about all this.........

AFter Thriller, Michael Jackson was pushed beyond what truly made him great and those cohorts who encouraged him to embrace the concept of racial indifference gave him the worst career advise I've ever seen in any realm, and now all we have left is what could have beens and a bunch of jargon designed to maintain a narrative that has no substance

and I've never heard anything about Michael saying about Quincy "exactly what does he do"....because if he really felt that way, he never would have continued working with him after Off The Wall and completed 3 albums together back to back to back....he sure didn't do back to back to back with TEddy Riley or Rodney Jerkins. There were plenty of great producers he could have chosent to work with after OTW but he kept on working with Q and by 1999, Michael Jackson asked Quincy to produce his last studio album which would become known as Invincible because he wanted to "recreate the magic"...

the bottom line is this, fans who defend MJ's false image love his transformation, and believe to the tilt it somehow made him better and more successful but the real story proves otherwise, and if the current following of today harp on whatever Quincy said, that lets me know how much they've been shielded from the comments and feelings shared and uttered from within the realm of Michael enormous black support he had prior to when the BAd album dropped. They're not ready for that.

This stuff never should have happened, it never should have, and that will be the lesson I'll take from all of this and rather or not Quincy wins his lawsuit and receives the compensation he's looking for, in the end, it's not going to defeat this narrative that's hanging around like a shackles.

This is what the american public and the world should remember about their collaboration, this should be the story....the good..the inspiration

...but instead....all we have is the BS now

[Edited 7/26/17 4:28am]

i think you're pretty harsh towards Michael's "false image" I do not think he was the only one to got that route, it happened to just about anyone, it happens to not just black artists, i'm talking the question of real identity/image, it happens to all of them. with black artists, the black thing is just one more maddening thing to throw into the mix, what I mean is, sly stone put it best "dying young is hard to take, selling out is harder" it's a schism in the artist that is worse than it is for white artists. Sure, Elvis had to worry about living up to this monolithic image of "the king" but he did not have to reconcile being 'loved" by a group that hates the rest of his people, that's the mindfuck with black heroes, it's one that not many can overcome, i don't think it's fair to dismiss michael because of it. There was plenty of good about michael, plenty of talent, plenty of redeeming qualities, let's say, just for arguments sake that he was a molsestor, just for arguements sake, he still did way more good for way more people than he ever could have molested, he gave more money, built more hospitals and that's not considering his vast influence on the american culture. He paid a price, as James Baldwin prophesied in the 80s, that he would.

your issue about his false self? well, how much can one argue, i used to believe the vitiligo stories, until i read that vitiligo can be exacerbated by using bleaching aids in the first place. Anyway, like any cultural figure, you cna't just criticize him without criticizing the society that made him, our country is fucked when it comes to race. we're all fucked by it, black wants to be white, white wants to be black and both deny it at the same time, great for american art and artists, horrible for human living.

Scorp said:

PeteSilas said:

yup, i've never forgiven q for the things he said after MJ died. and also, having had a mentor who was a lot like q, a guy who says all the right things but isn't about shit, that doesn't help either. I'm skeptical of all people in a leadership position now and i'd have it no other way. I still think q was a really sharp, talented guy, he's managed to put himself into many historical positions, you can't do that without some real good instincts and intelligence. He has had quite a life, in a way, his life is american history of the last 60 years, he knew ray charles pre-fame, he knew Malcolm X prefame, the list of talent he's been in contact with would put anyone to shame. He's also a fine producer, MJ brought the tunes but Quincy added some nice shit to them. Michael used to say "i don't know what quincy does" which is a cryptic statement and maybe was a portent of later troubles between the two because it just isn't that easy to pin down exactly what he did for michael. Of course he sponsored him, he put his name on him, he had a generations worth of hollywood contacts by the time mj got with him, he was a prolific composer. I just happen to think his ex-wife had a point when she called him a psychopath. Here is a guy who'll slap you on the back and yuck it all up but wont' go to your funeral because "it's enough". Not the kind of guy I want around. Unfortunately, in the celeb worshipping culture, there will always be people to kiss his ass, i mentioned his recent seattle trip, word was that he was just a real social whirlwind, talking to any and every musician who came up to hhim, showing great interest in their life stories. I think he's a conman at least to a degree.

This comment shows just how tragic this story has become and how bad the majority of King of Pop fans have been misled because they refuse to set aside the false image Michael Jackson presented to the world post-Thriller and in particular he started to do with the release of Bad in 1987......the same exact false image that destroyed him on every single level whereas everything that was a part of his great past has been marginilized, undermined, and vilified, and that hatred has cut into the most successful period of his career involved music's most successful collaboration we're every going to see, and when everything was set for this to be the greatest story ever seen in the history of music has literally transformed into the greatest nightmare....and it's all rooted in MJ's false image, whereas if he did not go that route which was predicated by his transformation............none of this antagonism, none of this hostility, none of this backbite would exist in the universe today regarding this entertainer.........this is all time tragic, this is really beyond tragic.

outside of Michael Jackson, every single artist/musician/performer....black or white, man or woman, american or beyond, from the mid 50s up until the point before he began working with Michael Jackson, and post-collaboration with Michael Jackson, from just about all the musical tree of genres, have never ever had anything bad to say about him...not one and I've followed Quincy's career since the 70s when he was already the best musical producer in the world before Michael began crafting his adult solo career...

anyone can take Quincy's resume and stack it up with any other producer ever credited with cutting a record and he's going to stand and remain at the top of the heap becaaaaaaaaaaauuuusee, he understood how to get the very best out of the artist he worked with and he always say "the product of a great record is not achieved by one person, but from the contribution of many", and we can see the very embodiment of that belief in the work Michael Jackaon and he achieved together....THAT should be the story to remember but it's not going to be and that's what's so sad about all this.........

AFter Thriller, Michael Jackson was pushed beyond what truly made him great and those cohorts who encouraged him to embrace the concept of racial indifference gave him the worst career advise I've ever seen in any realm, and now all we have left is what could have beens and a bunch of jargon designed to maintain a narrative that has no substance

and I've never heard anything about Michael saying about Quincy "exactly what does he do"....because if he really felt that way, he never would have continued working with him after Off The Wall and completed 3 albums together back to back to back....he sure didn't do back to back to back with TEddy Riley or Rodney Jerkins. There were plenty of great producers he could have chosent to work with after OTW but he kept on working with Q and by 1999, Michael Jackson asked Quincy to produce his last studio album which would become known as Invincible because he wanted to "recreate the magic"...

the bottom line is this, fans who defend MJ's false image love his transformation, and believe to the tilt it somehow made him better and more successful but the real story proves otherwise, and if the current following of today harp on whatever Quincy said, that lets me know how much they've been shielded from the comments and feelings shared and uttered from within the realm of Michael enormous black support he had prior to when the BAd album dropped. They're not ready for that.

This stuff never should have happened, it never should have, and that will be the lesson I'll take from all of this and rather or not Quincy wins his lawsuit and receives the compensation he's looking for, in the end, it's not going to defeat this narrative that's hanging around like a shackles.

[Edited 7/26/17 4:16am]

mjscarousal said:

PeteSilas said:

yup, i've never forgiven q for the things he said after MJ died. and also, having had a mentor who was a lot like q, a guy who says all the right things but isn't about shit, that doesn't help either. I'm skeptical of all people in a leadership position now and i'd have it no other way. I still think q was a really sharp, talented guy, he's managed to put himself into many historical positions, you can't do that without some real good instincts and intelligence. He has had quite a life, in a way, his life is american history of the last 60 years, he knew ray charles pre-fame, he knew Malcolm X prefame, the list of talent he's been in contact with would put anyone to shame. He's also a fine producer, MJ brought the tunes but Quincy added some nice shit to them. Michael used to say "i don't know what quincy does" which is a cryptic statement and maybe was a portent of later troubles between the two because it just isn't that easy to pin down exactly what he did for michael. Of course he sponsored him, he put his name on him, he had a generations worth of hollywood contacts by the time mj got with him, he was a prolific composer. I just happen to think his ex-wife had a point when she called him a psychopath. Here is a guy who'll slap you on the back and yuck it all up but wont' go to your funeral because "it's enough". Not the kind of guy I want around. Unfortunately, in the celeb worshipping culture, there will always be people to kiss his ass, i mentioned his recent seattle trip, word was that he was just a real social whirlwind, talking to any and every musician who came up to hhim, showing great interest in their life stories. I think he's a conman at least to a degree.

I agree. The things Quincy has said about MJ are unforgivable and shows that he was never a friend to him but I stopped caring for Q long ago even before MJ passed away. Quincy is very fake and arrogant.

I read his autobiography he is a strange ass man. Some of the things he has said about MJ and Ray Charles are just fucked up. I also listened to the Mike Dean Princepodcast interview with PJ Jones who worked with Prince's mgmt for the 2nd album. He went to Q to see if he could borrow m money to put into Prince's stage show and Q did not want Prince to come in his house he made Prince wait in the car. Just seemed stuck up and snotty.

http://podcastjuice.net/the-prince-podcast-perry-pj-jones-interview/#disqus_thread

yup, i got the man's number, he's a control freak, he just wants people to think he's great, he's an asshole. didn't he call prince an asshole because prince didn't do we are the world? if we're all adults, we have free will, we don't hate someone for not going along with our every whim, but Q never forgave Prince for that shit. Prince wasn't no MJ, he was his own man and didn't need people like q.

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree. The things Quincy has said about MJ are unforgivable and shows that he was never a friend to him but I stopped caring for Q long ago even before MJ passed away. Quincy is very fake and arrogant.

I read his autobiography he is a strange ass man. Some of the things he has said about MJ and Ray Charles are just fucked up. I also listened to the Mike Dean Princepodcast interview with PJ Jones who worked with Prince's mgmt for the 2nd album. He went to Q to see if he could borrow m money to put into Prince's stage show and Q did not want Prince to come in his house he made Prince wait in the car. Just seemed stuck up and snotty.

http://podcastjuice.net/the-prince-podcast-perry-pj-jones-interview/#disqus_thread

PeteSilas said:

i think you're pretty harsh towards Michael's "false image" I do not think he was the only one to got that route, it happened to just about anyone, it happens to not just black artists, i'm talking the question of real identity/image, it happens to all of them. with black artists, the black thing is just one more maddening thing to throw into the mix, what I mean is, sly stone put it best "dying young is hard to take, selling out is harder" it's a schism in the artist that is worse than it is for white artists. Sure, Elvis had to worry about living up to this monolithic image of "the king" but he did not have to reconcile being 'loved" by a group that hates the rest of his people, that's the mindfuck with black heroes, it's one that not many can overcome, i don't think it's fair to dismiss michael because of it. There was plenty of good about michael, plenty of talent, plenty of redeeming qualities, let's say, just for arguments sake that he was a molsestor, just for arguements sake, he still did way more good for way more people than he ever could have molested, he gave more money, built more hospitals and that's not considering his vast influence on the american culture. He paid a price, as James Baldwin prophesied in the 80s, that he would.

your issue about his false self? well, how much can one argue, i used to believe the vitiligo stories, until i read that vitiligo can be exacerbated by using bleaching aids in the first place. Anyway, like any cultural figure, you cna't just criticize him without criticizing the society that made him, our country is fucked when it comes to race. we're all fucked by it, black wants to be white, white wants to be black and both deny it at the same time, great for american art and artists, horrible for human living.

Scorp said:

This comment shows just how tragic this story has become and how bad the majority of King of Pop fans have been misled because they refuse to set aside the false image Michael Jackson presented to the world post-Thriller and in particular he started to do with the release of Bad in 1987......the same exact false image that destroyed him on every single level whereas everything that was a part of his great past has been marginilized, undermined, and vilified, and that hatred has cut into the most successful period of his career involved music's most successful collaboration we're every going to see, and when everything was set for this to be the greatest story ever seen in the history of music has literally transformed into the greatest nightmare....and it's all rooted in MJ's false image, whereas if he did not go that route which was predicated by his transformation............none of this antagonism, none of this hostility, none of this backbite would exist in the universe today regarding this entertainer.........this is all time tragic, this is really beyond tragic.

outside of Michael Jackson, every single artist/musician/performer....black or white, man or woman, american or beyond, from the mid 50s up until the point before he began working with Michael Jackson, and post-collaboration with Michael Jackson, from just about all the musical tree of genres, have never ever had anything bad to say about him...not one and I've followed Quincy's career since the 70s when he was already the best musical producer in the world before Michael began crafting his adult solo career...

anyone can take Quincy's resume and stack it up with any other producer ever credited with cutting a record and he's going to stand and remain at the top of the heap becaaaaaaaaaaauuuusee, he understood how to get the very best out of the artist he worked with and he always say "the product of a great record is not achieved by one person, but from the contribution of many", and we can see the very embodiment of that belief in the work Michael Jackaon and he achieved together....THAT should be the story to remember but it's not going to be and that's what's so sad about all this.........

AFter Thriller, Michael Jackson was pushed beyond what truly made him great and those cohorts who encouraged him to embrace the concept of racial indifference gave him the worst career advise I've ever seen in any realm, and now all we have left is what could have beens and a bunch of jargon designed to maintain a narrative that has no substance

and I've never heard anything about Michael saying about Quincy "exactly what does he do"....because if he really felt that way, he never would have continued working with him after Off The Wall and completed 3 albums together back to back to back....he sure didn't do back to back to back with TEddy Riley or Rodney Jerkins. There were plenty of great producers he could have chosent to work with after OTW but he kept on working with Q and by 1999, Michael Jackson asked Quincy to produce his last studio album which would become known as Invincible because he wanted to "recreate the magic"...

the bottom line is this, fans who defend MJ's false image love his transformation, and believe to the tilt it somehow made him better and more successful but the real story proves otherwise, and if the current following of today harp on whatever Quincy said, that lets me know how much they've been shielded from the comments and feelings shared and uttered from within the realm of Michael enormous black support he had prior to when the BAd album dropped. They're not ready for that.

This stuff never should have happened, it never should have, and that will be the lesson I'll take from all of this and rather or not Quincy wins his lawsuit and receives the compensation he's looking for, in the end, it's not going to defeat this narrative that's hanging around like a shackles.

[Edited 7/26/17 4:16am]

never said it just happens to black artists exclusively,

but it happened to him with the greatest intensity and has had the greatest impact

and I never said that MJ woke up one day and decided to change himself on a whim

He was conditioned by the industry to do that after years of subtle encouragement

and I'm not directing anger individually but the situation itself

if the cause of these tragedies were eliminated, we wouldn't have these tragedies...this is why now at the beginning of the 21st century, the industry is running on gas fumes...

Michael Jackson was a great man and a tremendous artist, but was robbed of his essential goodness and he ackowledged that during his period of rebellion when he released the History album, he speaks on it during the songs Scream, Sranger in Moscow.....those lyrics highlighted the reality of what happened to him

[Edited 7/26/17 4:50am]

Exactly now knowing that Prince gave millions to charity that makes Q's behavior even more fucked up he thought he knew everything and had no idea what Prince was doing.

If the estate owes him they should just pay him and send him on his way.

PeteSilas said:

yup, i got the man's number, he's a control freak, he just wants people to think he's great, he's an asshole. didn't he call prince an asshole because prince didn't do we are the world? if we're all adults, we have free will, we don't hate someone for not going along with our every whim, but Q never forgave Prince for that shit. Prince wasn't no MJ, he was his own man and didn't need people like q.

laurarichardson said:

I read his autobiography he is a strange ass man. Some of the things he has said about MJ and Ray Charles are just fucked up. I also listened to the Mike Dean Princepodcast interview with PJ Jones who worked with Prince's mgmt for the 2nd album. He went to Q to see if he could borrow m money to put into Prince's stage show and Q did not want Prince to come in his house he made Prince wait in the car. Just seemed stuck up and snotty.

http://podcastjuice.net/the-prince-podcast-perry-pj-jones-interview/#disqus_thread

but he kept on working with Q and by 1999, Michael Jackson asked Quincy to produce his last studio album which would become known as Invincible because he wanted to "recreate the magic"...

Wait, Didn't we clear the timeline of this up ALREADY on like the third page of this thread?

Michael reached out to Q and Rod in '05-07 and Q didn't want to produce anymore but Rod and Michael did in fact work on a few songs together. (including the final version of Best of Joy, which wasn't included on the Michael album)

Again, it was not 1999 Michael wasn't interested in returning to the Off The Wall/Thriller sound at that time. He was working heavily with Brad Buxer, Michael Prince, and Dr. Freeze during 1997-2000 THEN got with Rodney and Teddy, as well as Devante Swing.

Rodney spoke having plans to get Michael back to that sound but that was squashed quickly.

https://www.vibe.com/2009/09/v-exclusive-rodney-jerkins-talks-mjs-last-studio-album-invincible/

If you're gonna give information, at least get it right, dude.

[Edited 7/26/17 7:04am]

bboy87 said:

but he kept on working with Q and by 1999, Michael Jackson asked Quincy to produce his last studio album which would become known as Invincible because he wanted to "recreate the magic"...

Wait, Didn't we clear the timeline of this up ALREADY on like the third page of this thread?

Michael reached out to Q and Rod in '05-07 and Q didn't want to produce anymore but Rod and Michael did in fact work on a few songs together. (including the final version of Best of Joy, which wasn't included on the Michael album)

Again, it was not 1999 Michael wasn't interested in returning to the Off The Wall/Thriller sound at that time. He was working heavily with Brad Buxer, Michael Prince, and Dr. Freeze during 1997-2000 THEN got with Rodney and Teddy, as well as Devante Swing.

Rodney spoke having plans to get Michael back to that sound but that was squashed quickly.

https://www.vibe.com/2009/09/v-exclusive-rodney-jerkins-talks-mjs-last-studio-album-invincible/

If you're gonna give information, at least get it right, dude.

[Edited 7/26/17 7:04am]

And I have that same Vibe magazine edition at the crib as we speak

Michael sought Rodney Jerkins through a third party only after Quincy turned down his offer to collaborate together, which took place during the beginning of 1999 before MJ and Rodney began working in the studio that spring

Scorp said:

bboy87 said:

Wait, Didn't we clear the timeline of this up ALREADY on like the third page of this thread?

Michael reached out to Q and Rod in '05-07 and Q didn't want to produce anymore but Rod and Michael did in fact work on a few songs together. (including the final version of Best of Joy, which wasn't included on the Michael album)

Again, it was not 1999 Michael wasn't interested in returning to the Off The Wall/Thriller sound at that time. He was working heavily with Brad Buxer, Michael Prince, and Dr. Freeze during 1997-2000 THEN got with Rodney and Teddy, as well as Devante Swing.

Rodney spoke having plans to get Michael back to that sound but that was squashed quickly.

https://www.vibe.com/2009/09/v-exclusive-rodney-jerkins-talks-mjs-last-studio-album-invincible/

If you're gonna give information, at least get it right, dude.

[Edited 7/26/17 7:04am]

And I have that same Vibe magazine edition at the crib as we speak

Michael sought Rodney Jerkins through a third party only after Quincy turned down his offer to collaborate together, which took place during the beginning of 1999 before MJ and Rodney began working in the studio that spring

If you can give me the source of Michael asking Q to collaborate again in '99, please post it.

He reached out to Q around the time or after the trial but Q didn't want to work on another project. Rod Temperton and Michael linked up and wrote songs together.

I have yet to see anything about Michael wanting to work with Quincy again in 1999. After the trial and his return to the US, yes. But in the midst of him working on Invincible? NO can't find anything.

[Edited 7/26/17 10:47am]

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree. The things Quincy has said about MJ are unforgivable and shows that he was never a friend to him but I stopped caring for Q long ago even before MJ passed away. Quincy is very fake and arrogant.

I read his autobiography he is a strange ass man. Some of the things he has said about MJ and Ray Charles are just fucked up. I also listened to the Mike Dean Princepodcast interview with PJ Jones who worked with Prince's mgmt for the 2nd album. He went to Q to see if he could borrow m money to put into Prince's stage show and Q did not want Prince to come in his house he made Prince wait in the car. Just seemed stuck up and snotty.

http://podcastjuice.net/the-prince-podcast-perry-pj-jones-interview/#disqus_thread

Q said that he only knew "Michael the artist, not the person". He said this when MJ was accused in 04. Why would you say that about someone you refer to as your brother and your friend? Why say that when they need your support IF you are suppose to be their friend? Q is a fake and a fuqing fraud, can't stand him. You are right, he is very stuck up and snotty. Michael was very appreciative/loyal to Q and always took the opportunity to give him his props for helping him with his success. Its sad MJ did not have any true friends.

[Edited 7/26/17 11:32am]