PeteSilas said:

mjscarousal said:

Agree, I was very upset about his comments too but he threw MJ under the bus even during the trial.

ya, that to me is all unforgivable, the gloating after his death takes the cake. or at least, i thought it was gloating, Quincy has tried to say, when he spoke about Prince and MJ that he said those things because he was angry at MJ for doing it to himself, if that's true, ok, maybe it's a little more understandable. I'm still pissed enough to say that I'm a "former fan" of Q's.

Wasn't that the same event where he said Prince tried to run Michael and LaToya over outside after the James Brown show?

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, that to me is all unforgivable, the gloating after his death takes the cake. or at least, i thought it was gloating, Quincy has tried to say, when he spoke about Prince and MJ that he said those things because he was angry at MJ for doing it to himself, if that's true, ok, maybe it's a little more understandable. I'm still pissed enough to say that I'm a "former fan" of Q's.

Wasn't that the same event where he said Prince tried to run Michael and LaToya over outside after the James Brown show?

yup, funny as hell, and q said, "that was a drama mama, which michael loved".

We will know in a couple of weeks if Quincy is correct.....and although I think he is an incredible artist , I was disappointed with his nasty comments towards MJ (and his kids) when he died in 2009....only to kiss up to his children etc during the handand foot ceremony at the Grauman's Chinese Theatre in Hollywood in 2012. I don't recall him saying stuff like that when Marlon Brando died in 2004, and he had alot of problems in his life too! It just comes across phony and there was no need for it.

[Edited 7/13/17 18:30pm]

Goddess4Real said:

We will know in a couple of weeks if Quincy is correct.....and although I think he is an incredible artist , I was disappointed with his nasty comments towards MJ (and his kids) when he died in 2009....only to kiss up to his children etc during the handand foot ceremony at the Grauman's Chinese Theatre in Hollywood in 2012. I don't recall him saying stuff like that when Marlon Brando died in 2004, and he had alot of problems in his life too! It just comes across phony and there was no need for it.

[Edited 7/13/17 18:30pm]

It's because Michael Jackson did not father either one of those 3 kids/young adults....

He.....did.....not.....father......either.....one....of.....them......not one.......and everyone know it

The oldest just did an interview where he acknowledge that MJ may not be his biological father......which means he knows he's not........and that's the whole crux of the end of this problem and how everything has concluded......and the way the entire situation is structured and set up.....

Quincy Jones along with Michael's family is trying to go along with the program to preserve the memory and the good times and memories of their participation, input, and association with Michael Jackson's career and life story when this stuff meant something...that's why they are now going along with it because of the constant berating by fans, it's almost a no win situation because the fans won't allow anything but the false narrative to remain present.

it's not animosity being directed towards them three young people, it's the situation and how everything came to be

[Edited 7/13/17 18:58pm]

Q is a MUSICAL Master! Arranging.. Production.. Song Selection ect.. he's the TOP dog!

MJ was a singing/dancing/entertaining--- >Dynamo!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put that together and you get tracks like "Billie Jean" that make people WORLDWIDE run to the dance floor the second they hear the first two drum beats of the damn song!!! OVER 30 YEARS LATER!!!!

and a Master selling it with his golden voice and electric moves...

You cant have One without the Other..

END OF RANT!!!

Scorp said:

Goddess4Real said:

We will know in a couple of weeks if Quincy is correct.....and although I think he is an incredible artist , I was disappointed with his nasty comments towards MJ (and his kids) when he died in 2009....only to kiss up to his children etc during the handand foot ceremony at the Grauman's Chinese Theatre in Hollywood in 2012. I don't recall him saying stuff like that when Marlon Brando died in 2004, and he had alot of problems in his life too! It just comes across phony and there was no need for it.

[Edited 7/13/17 18:30pm]

It's because Michael Jackson did not father either one of those 3 kids/young adults....

He.....did.....not.....father......either.....one....of.....them......not one.......and everyone know it

The oldest just did an interview where he acknowledge that MJ may not be his biological father......which means he knows he's not........and that's the whole crux of the end of this problem and how everything has concluded......and the way the entire situation is structured and set up.....

Quincy Jones along with Michael's family is trying to go along with the program to preserve the memory and the good times and memories of their participation, input, and association with Michael Jackson's career and life story when this stuff meant something...that's why they are now going along with it because of the constant berating by fans, it's almost a no win situation because the fans won't allow anything but the false narrative to remain present.

it's not animosity being directed towards them three young people, it's the situation and how everything came to be

[Edited 7/13/17 18:58pm]

Quincy sounded nasty and vilifying, it wasn't just the topic of the children, which he has no room to talk, if he's talking about wanting super black kids. He sounded like he was gloating, and even he must have realized this because I couldn't find the unedited footage anywhere after a few days. It's unforgivable coming from someone who is suppossed to be in a position of helping and leadership for Michael. Truth is, I believe he was just bitter than MJ kicked him to the curb. Maybe he was "angry" as he says but he did not sound that way, hell, the way he was talking, Michael's nemesis couldn't have done a better job, Tom Sneddon.

PeteSilas said:

Scorp said:

It's because Michael Jackson did not father either one of those 3 kids/young adults....

He.....did.....not.....father......either.....one....of.....them......not one.......and everyone know it

The oldest just did an interview where he acknowledge that MJ may not be his biological father......which means he knows he's not........and that's the whole crux of the end of this problem and how everything has concluded......and the way the entire situation is structured and set up.....

Quincy Jones along with Michael's family is trying to go along with the program to preserve the memory and the good times and memories of their participation, input, and association with Michael Jackson's career and life story when this stuff meant something...that's why they are now going along with it because of the constant berating by fans, it's almost a no win situation because the fans won't allow anything but the false narrative to remain present.

it's not animosity being directed towards them three young people, it's the situation and how everything came to be

[Edited 7/13/17 18:58pm]

Quincy sounded nasty and vilifying, it wasn't just the topic of the children, which he has no room to talk, if he's talking about wanting super black kids. He sounded like he was gloating, and even he must have realized this because I couldn't find the unedited footage anywhere after a few days. It's unforgivable coming from someone who is suppossed to be in a position of helping and leadership for Michael. Truth is, I believe he was just bitter than MJ kicked him to the curb. Maybe he was "angry" as he says but he did not sound that way, hell, the way he was talking, Michael's nemesis couldn't have done a better job, Tom Sneddon.

Im sure he was disappointed moreso than bitter but it wasn't like he retired in 1989, he immediately began working with up an coming artists and produced his own LP in Back On the Block which won a numerous Grammy awards

Then produced Al B Sure, James Ingram, El Debarge, and Barry White a year later for the gem Secret Garden then wrote numerous musical scores for TV shows and movies ala Austin Powers

i'm aware of Q's credentials, i am a "former fan" after all and had followed him for many years. He had many years to say stuff like that, why wait for the day after? I don't really know, i'm less angry after 9 years or whatever, but i'm not a fan.

Scorp said:

PeteSilas said:

Quincy sounded nasty and vilifying, it wasn't just the topic of the children, which he has no room to talk, if he's talking about wanting super black kids. He sounded like he was gloating, and even he must have realized this because I couldn't find the unedited footage anywhere after a few days. It's unforgivable coming from someone who is suppossed to be in a position of helping and leadership for Michael. Truth is, I believe he was just bitter than MJ kicked him to the curb. Maybe he was "angry" as he says but he did not sound that way, hell, the way he was talking, Michael's nemesis couldn't have done a better job, Tom Sneddon.

Im sure he was disappointed moreso than bitter but it wasn't like he retired in 1989, he immediately began working with up an coming artists and produced his own LP in Back On the Block which won a numerous Grammy awards

Then produced Al B Sure, James Ingram, El Debarge, and Barry White a year later for the gem Secret Garden then wrote numerous musical scores for TV shows and movies ala Austin Powers

PeteSilas said:

i'm aware of Q's credentials, i am a "former fan" after all and had followed him for many years. He had many years to say stuff like that, why wait for the day after? I don't really know, i'm less angry after 9 years or whatever, but i'm not a fan.

Scorp said:

Im sure he was disappointed moreso than bitter but it wasn't like he retired in 1989, he immediately began working with up an coming artists and produced his own LP in Back On the Block which won a numerous Grammy awards

Then produced Al B Sure, James Ingram, El Debarge, and Barry White a year later for the gem Secret Garden then wrote numerous musical scores for TV shows and movies ala Austin Powers

when u see someone destroy himself right before your eyes and cut ties, what are you going to say during that period?

Scorp said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm aware of Q's credentials, i am a "former fan" after all and had followed him for many years. He had many years to say stuff like that, why wait for the day after? I don't really know, i'm less angry after 9 years or whatever, but i'm not a fan.

when u see someone destroy himself right before your eyes and cut ties, what are you going to say during that period?

I try to tell them to stop fucking themselves up, if they die, i won't be bragging like I outlived the bastard and that they deserve to be dead. Quincy is no hero, hell, he might even be a fucking molestor, Tevin Campbell might have gotten buggered by the old man, and for that matter, maybe MJ was too. These people like Q in high places tend to abuse their position, just look at cosby, only cos' stories gained traction. there really needs to be more of that kind of thing.

Whether or not those kids are Michael's biological children, they ARE his children and it was uncool for Quincy to make the comments that he made, just like the "I only know the music, not the man" statement he made in 2003 when Michael was being charged for child molestation.

He has admitted that several of the things that he said after Michael died was stupid (possibly out of hurt and grief) and let's not forget that even after they stopped working together after Bad, Michael and Q WERE on good terms.

Quincy gave Michael feedback when he was recording Dangerous and when Q and Kidada wanted Michael to be in Vibe in 1995, Michael was there.

If Q is owed the money, then he needs to be paid, but if it's miscalculation on his part, then that's up for the courts to decide.

Both parties (Q and Michael Jackson estate) have done some boneheaded things so you gotta hear both sides at this point. Heck, a lot of fans are rooting for Quincy in this lawsuit

[Edited 7/13/17 21:40pm]

when did he admit that what he said was wrong? there were two interviews where he appeared to be running michael down after he died. the one in print and the one on that morning show, the one on the morning show was edited to make him not look like such an asshole obviously with his or his reps' instigation. Men like q, i've seen many, many, just like him, all ego, it's all about them, i guarantee you, watch any interview and all he does is talk about himself, who he knows. Personally, I've tired of those types of men, and I've dealt with enough to know what they are.

bboy87 said:

Whether or not those kids are Michael's biological children, they ARE his children and it was uncool for Quincy to make the comments that he made, just like the "I only know the music, not the man" statement he made in 2003 when Michael was being charged for child molestation.

He has admitted that several of the things that he said after Michael died was stupid (possibly out of hurt and grief) and let's not forget that even after they stopped working together after Bad, Michael and Q WERE on good terms.

Quincy gave Michael feedback when he was recording Dangerous and when Q and Kidada wanted Michael to be in Vibe in 1995, Michael was there.

If Q is owed the money, then he needs to be paid, but if it's miscalculation on his part, then that's up for the courts to decide.

Both parties (Q and Michael Jackson estate) have done some boneheaded things so you gotta hear both sides at this point. Heck, a lot of fans are rooting for Quincy in this lawsuit

[Edited 7/13/17 21:40pm]

PeteSilas said:

when did he admit that what he said was wrong? there were two interviews where he appeared to be running michael down after he died. the one in print and the one on that morning show, the one on the morning show was edited to make him not look like such an asshole obviously with his or his reps' instigation. Men like q, i've seen many, many, just like him, all ego, it's all about them, i guarantee you, watch any interview and all he does is talk about himself, who he knows. Personally, I've tired of those types of men, and I've dealt with enough to know what they are.

bboy87 said:

Whether or not those kids are Michael's biological children, they ARE his children and it was uncool for Quincy to make the comments that he made, just like the "I only know the music, not the man" statement he made in 2003 when Michael was being charged for child molestation.

He has admitted that several of the things that he said after Michael died was stupid (possibly out of hurt and grief) and let's not forget that even after they stopped working together after Bad, Michael and Q WERE on good terms.

Quincy gave Michael feedback when he was recording Dangerous and when Q and Kidada wanted Michael to be in Vibe in 1995, Michael was there.

If Q is owed the money, then he needs to be paid, but if it's miscalculation on his part, then that's up for the courts to decide.

Both parties (Q and Michael Jackson estate) have done some boneheaded things so you gotta hear both sides at this point. Heck, a lot of fans are rooting for Quincy in this lawsuit

[Edited 7/13/17 21:40pm]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/aug/23/quincy-jones-jazz-sinatra-michael-jackson-proms-interview

“It is a tragic story. I said a lot of stupid things after he died,” says Jones, who reportedly claimed that Jackson had wanted to be white. “You cannot make records like that without extreme love, trust and respect,” he adds now, with what might be a note of contrition.

thank you, i still angry.

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

when did he admit that what he said was wrong? there were two interviews where he appeared to be running michael down after he died. the one in print and the one on that morning show, the one on the morning show was edited to make him not look like such an asshole obviously with his or his reps' instigation. Men like q, i've seen many, many, just like him, all ego, it's all about them, i guarantee you, watch any interview and all he does is talk about himself, who he knows. Personally, I've tired of those types of men, and I've dealt with enough to know what they are.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/aug/23/quincy-jones-jazz-sinatra-michael-jackson-proms-interview

“It is a tragic story. I said a lot of stupid things after he died,” says Jones, who reportedly claimed that Jackson had wanted to be white. “You cannot make records like that without extreme love, trust and respect,” he adds now, with what might be a note of contrition.

oh, and lest i forget, he did something that may not be unforgivable but does show how it had to be something personal, he shorted him of musical/artistic credit. when asked he said something to the effect that he was nowhere near the greats of jazz and he said it condescendingly too. it's stupid comparison to begin with but don't let that stop q.

PeteSilas said:

oh, and lest i forget, he did something that may not be unforgivable but does show how it had to be something personal, he shorted him of musical/artistic credit. when asked he said something to the effect that he was nowhere near the greats of jazz and he said it condescendingly too. it's stupid comparison to begin with but don't let that stop q.

I had no idea he talked shit about Mike's kids. I mean damm leave the kids out of it and who is he to talk about MJ wanting to be white. Q 's wives have all been white which is his right to do as he pleases but puts him in a position to keep his mouth closed.

If he apolized he knows he was wrong for saying it but the question is why did he say it in the first place. I know people process grief in different ways but damm if you got nothing nice to say do not say anything at all.

Reminds me of Alan and Eric Leeds and some of their dumb ass comments after Prince died. Just shut up and be decent because otherwise it shows no home training.

[Edited 7/14/17 4:24am]

laurarichardson said:

PeteSilas said:

oh, and lest i forget, he did something that may not be unforgivable but does show how it had to be something personal, he shorted him of musical/artistic credit. when asked he said something to the effect that he was nowhere near the greats of jazz and he said it condescendingly too. it's stupid comparison to begin with but don't let that stop q.

I had no idea he talked shit about Mike's kids. I mean damm leave the kids out of it and who is he to talk about MJ wanting to be white. Q 's wives have all been white which is his right to do as he pleases but puts him in a position to keep his mouth closed.

If he apolized he knows he was wrong for saying it but the question is why did he say it in the first place. I know people process grief in different ways but damm if you got nothing nice to say do not say anything at all.

Reminds me of Alan and Eric Leeds and some of their dumb ass comments after Prince died. Just shut up and be decent because otherwise it shows no home training.

[Edited 7/14/17 4:24am]

it's because after MJ reached what wound up being the very pinnacle of his career (when everything was good), he took on a life predicated on presenting and projected a false image, that not only damage his livelihood and his career, but affected those around him because it brought forth a great deal of hostility when it comes to the issue of race...........and hostility and beliggerence is what the false image has left behind.

if MJ had not done that, or I should say, had been led and encouraged to do it, the comments that fans of the past 20 years get angry about, not just comments by a Quincy Jones, but by anyone who does not embrace the false image, if MJ had not taken that route, a comment such as that would not have been said

and the false image that was cast by the most recognizable figure in music, it symbolizes how deeply troubled this nation is over color and how that same host of contradictions have been indoctrinated in ferocity in other nations now beyond the american border

The racial dynamic and everything that fuels it consummed Michael Jackson and eventually overtook him in the likes we have never seen

The transformation was serious and produced a whirle of complications that is very difficult to navigate through and very difficult to weed out, because what it symbolizes shows how much black society has been inflicted by the racial dynamic, white society has been victimized by it without realizing it, and how other culture of people attempting to adapt to this society are being affected by it in this current age. ......and THIS is why the majority of fans, society, and media alike don't want to delve deep of the real truth of Michael Jackson's story because it would be too difficult to listen to and uncomfortable when ultimately, the contradictions of this society is what contributed in shaping it....Those who created this problem do what they always do, they rather gloss over it

and during Michael's period of rebellion during the mid 90s with the release of his album History, he was already given subtle hints how his story was playing out in the song Scream as he said "yall keep changing the rules, I keep playing the game, I can't take it much longer, I think I may go insane".

He was referring to his transformation but the world was not peepin it

the more the rules changed, the more he was required to change his being to not only attain the mantle, but to maintain it

[Edited 7/14/17 6:02am]

PeteSilas said:

thesoulbrother said:

Quincy is not senile. I just saw an interview with him recently and that man is just fine. It's nothing wrong with going after what's yours. I dig Michael Jackson as much as the next cat but let's be real: Michael wanted to take ALL the damn credit for producing Thriller and that wasn't fair to Quincy.

they were a great team but Michael was the star and the visionary, he really was. Quincy just polished the diamond a little. Quincy knew all the right musicians and technicians, he had the background, the experience and the talent to do some really cool stuff but the songs that made MJ, MJ made himself. In that way, he'll always get shortchanged, there will always be people who believe Q "made Michael" that's not true either. They were a great team, no doubt about it, it's too bad that it didn't stay harmonious forever.

They were an excellent team and I don't take anything away from that. However, Quincy Jones' production launched Michael into the stratosphere! I don't think Michael would have had the type of success had it not been for Quincy. They made three historical, monumental albums together. Once they went their separate ways, Michael didn't sell the type of units he once did. The music wasn't as great. His post-Quincy albums (Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On the Dance Floor, Invincible) sold well, but that magic wasn't there and it showed. Even before Michael passed he wanted to work with Quincy again but Q was like "been there, done that." And let's not forget that after working with Michael, when Q dropped Back On the Block in 1989, he SWEPT the Grammys the following year. The last time Michael won a Grammy was for Thriller in 1984.

thesoulbrother said:

PeteSilas said:

they were a great team but Michael was the star and the visionary, he really was. Quincy just polished the diamond a little. Quincy knew all the right musicians and technicians, he had the background, the experience and the talent to do some really cool stuff but the songs that made MJ, MJ made himself. In that way, he'll always get shortchanged, there will always be people who believe Q "made Michael" that's not true either. They were a great team, no doubt about it, it's too bad that it didn't stay harmonious forever.

They were an excellent team and I don't take anything away from that. However, Quincy Jones' production launched Michael into the stratosphere! I don't think Michael would have had the type of success had it not been for Quincy. They made three historical, monumental albums together. Once they went their separate ways, Michael didn't sell the type of units he once did. The music wasn't as great. His post-Quincy albums (Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On the Dance Floor, Invincible) sold well, but that magic wasn't there and it showed. Even before Michael passed he wanted to work with Quincy again but Q was like "been there, done that." And let's not forget that after working with Michael, when Q dropped Back On the Block in 1989, he SWEPT the Grammys the following year. The last time Michael won a Grammy was for Thriller in 1984.

Amen

In 1999, Michael reached out to Quincy to "recreate the magic" for the album that became known as Invincible.

Quincy declined and only then did Michael reach out to Rodney Jerkins through a third party

Scorp said:

laurarichardson said:

I had no idea he talked shit about Mike's kids. I mean damm leave the kids out of it and who is he to talk about MJ wanting to be white. Q 's wives have all been white which is his right to do as he pleases but puts him in a position to keep his mouth closed.

If he apolized he knows he was wrong for saying it but the question is why did he say it in the first place. I know people process grief in different ways but damm if you got nothing nice to say do not say anything at all.

Reminds me of Alan and Eric Leeds and some of their dumb ass comments after Prince died. Just shut up and be decent because otherwise it shows no home training.

[Edited 7/14/17 4:24am]

it's because after MJ reached what wound up being the very pinnacle of his career (when everything was good), he took on a life predicated on presenting and projected a false image, that not only damage his livelihood and his career, but affected those around him because it brought forth a great deal of hostility when it comes to the issue of race...........and hostility and beliggerence is what the false image has left behind.

if MJ had not done that, or I should say, had been led and encouraged to do it, the comments that fans of the past 20 years get angry about, not just comments by a Quincy Jones, but by anyone who does not embrace the false image, if MJ had not taken that route, a comment such as that would not have been said

and the false image that was cast by the most recognizable figure in music, it symbolizes how deeply troubled this nation is over color and how that same host of contradictions have been indoctrinated in ferocity in other nations now beyond the american border

The racial dynamic and everything that fuels it consummed Michael Jackson and eventually overtook him in the likes we have never seen

The transformation was serious and produced a whirle of complications that is very difficult to navigate through and very difficult to weed out, because what it symbolizes shows how much black society has been inflicted by the racial dynamic, white society has been victimized by it without realizing it, and how other culture of people attempting to adapt to this society are being affected by it in this current age. ......and THIS is why the majority of fans, society, and media alike don't want to delve deep of the real truth of Michael Jackson's story because it would be too difficult to listen to and uncomfortable when ultimately, the contradictions of this society is what contributed in shaping it....Those who created this problem do what they always do, they rather gloss over it

and during Michael's period of rebellion during the mid 90s with the release of his album History, he was already given subtle hints how his story was playing out in the song Scream as he said "yall keep changing the rules, I keep playing the game, I can't take it much longer, I think I may go insane".

He was referring to his transformation but the world was not peepin it

the more the rules changed, the more he was required to change his being to not only attain the mantle, but to maintain it

[Edited 7/14/17 6:02am]

Yo that was a little extra....we are talking about Quincy's relationship to Mike mostly at this time don't throw the subject off. I understand Quincy had his smart ass comments about him, but let's keep it at that for now.

thesoulbrother said:

PeteSilas said:

they were a great team but Michael was the star and the visionary, he really was. Quincy just polished the diamond a little. Quincy knew all the right musicians and technicians, he had the background, the experience and the talent to do some really cool stuff but the songs that made MJ, MJ made himself. In that way, he'll always get shortchanged, there will always be people who believe Q "made Michael" that's not true either. They were a great team, no doubt about it, it's too bad that it didn't stay harmonious forever.

They were an excellent team and I don't take anything away from that. However, Quincy Jones' production launched Michael into the stratosphere! I don't think Michael would have had the type of success had it not been for Quincy. They made three historical, monumental albums together. Once they went their separate ways, Michael didn't sell the type of units he once did. The music wasn't as great. His post-Quincy albums (Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On the Dance Floor, Invincible) sold well, but that magic wasn't there and it showed. Even before Michael passed he wanted to work with Quincy again but Q was like "been there, done that." And let's not forget that after working with Michael, when Q dropped Back On the Block in 1989, he SWEPT the Grammys the following year. The last time Michael won a Grammy was for Thriller in 1984.

Actually Michael won Grammys in 1990 and 1996 for Leave Me Alone and Scream

[Edited 7/14/17 12:46pm]

Scorp said:

thesoulbrother said:

They were an excellent team and I don't take anything away from that. However, Quincy Jones' production launched Michael into the stratosphere! I don't think Michael would have had the type of success had it not been for Quincy. They made three historical, monumental albums together. Once they went their separate ways, Michael didn't sell the type of units he once did. The music wasn't as great. His post-Quincy albums (Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On the Dance Floor, Invincible) sold well, but that magic wasn't there and it showed. Even before Michael passed he wanted to work with Quincy again but Q was like "been there, done that." And let's not forget that after working with Michael, when Q dropped Back On the Block in 1989, he SWEPT the Grammys the following year. The last time Michael won a Grammy was for Thriller in 1984.

Amen

In 1999, Michael reached out to Quincy to "recreate the magic" for the album that became known as Invincible.

Quincy declined and only then did Michael reach out to Rodney Jerkins through a third party

I checked and it seems Michael reached out to Q in '05 after the trial to see if he was interested but Q turned it down, but that's only one source I can find for that.

He DID reach out to Rod Temperton which resulted in them writing songs together in the mid 2000s (including Best of Joy although Rod's verse was omitted on the Michael album)

[Edited 7/14/17 12:58pm]

Scorp said:

laurarichardson said:

I had no idea he talked shit about Mike's kids. I mean damm leave the kids out of it and who is he to talk about MJ wanting to be white. Q 's wives have all been white which is his right to do as he pleases but puts him in a position to keep his mouth closed.

If he apolized he knows he was wrong for saying it but the question is why did he say it in the first place. I know people process grief in different ways but damm if you got nothing nice to say do not say anything at all.

Reminds me of Alan and Eric Leeds and some of their dumb ass comments after Prince died. Just shut up and be decent because otherwise it shows no home training.

[Edited 7/14/17 4:24am]

it's because after MJ reached what wound up being the very pinnacle of his career (when everything was good), he took on a life predicated on presenting and projected a false image, that not only damage his livelihood and his career, but affected those around him because it brought forth a great deal of hostility when it comes to the issue of race...........and hostility and beliggerence is what the false image has left behind.

if MJ had not done that, or I should say, had been led and encouraged to do it, the comments that fans of the past 20 years get angry about, not just comments by a Quincy Jones, but by anyone who does not embrace the false image, if MJ had not taken that route, a comment such as that would not have been said

and the false image that was cast by the most recognizable figure in music, it symbolizes how deeply troubled this nation is over color and how that same host of contradictions have been indoctrinated in ferocity in other nations now beyond the american border

The racial dynamic and everything that fuels it consummed Michael Jackson and eventually overtook him in the likes we have never seen

The transformation was serious and produced a whirle of complications that is very difficult to navigate through and very difficult to weed out, because what it symbolizes shows how much black society has been inflicted by the racial dynamic, white society has been victimized by it without realizing it, and how other culture of people attempting to adapt to this society are being affected by it in this current age. ......and THIS is why the majority of fans, society, and media alike don't want to delve deep of the real truth of Michael Jackson's story because it would be too difficult to listen to and uncomfortable when ultimately, the contradictions of this society is what contributed in shaping it....Those who created this problem do what they always do, they rather gloss over it

and during Michael's period of rebellion during the mid 90s with the release of his album History, he was already given subtle hints how his story was playing out in the song Scream as he said "yall keep changing the rules, I keep playing the game, I can't take it much longer, I think I may go insane".

He was referring to his transformation but the world was not peepin it

the more the rules changed, the more he was required to change his being to not only attain the mantle, but to maintain it

[Edited 7/14/17 6:02am]

This has nothing to do with Quincy and his dumb ass comments. If you cannot say anything nice especially about children then just shut up.

thesoulbrother said:

scorp, i agree with what you're saying, and I was paying attention all the time. Michael was made nutty by his wanting white acceptance, most people in his position do, kanye west being the latest example but it's garden variety self-denial and confusion. Each artist deals different, sly became a druggie and a burnout, Prince started making sure he had more black faces around him and it helped him I think. That's not the topic I am speaking of, I'm speaking of Q as mentor, as mentor scorned, as mentor turned destroyer because his protege grew past him, and mentor gloating over the self-immolation of his prized artist. That is what it looked like at the time, and i'm not entirely convinced that it was just because Q was angry that Michael "did it to himself" maybe it was but that's not what it sounded like, it sounded just like what I called it, gloating. I have enemies too, my own mentor I have lots of issues with but I promise you, when he dies sometime within the next couple years, I will not be gloating, I'll be wondering if I'm welcome at the funeral.

Scorp said:

laurarichardson said:

I had no idea he talked shit about Mike's kids. I mean damm leave the kids out of it and who is he to talk about MJ wanting to be white. Q 's wives have all been white which is his right to do as he pleases but puts him in a position to keep his mouth closed.

If he apolized he knows he was wrong for saying it but the question is why did he say it in the first place. I know people process grief in different ways but damm if you got nothing nice to say do not say anything at all.

Reminds me of Alan and Eric Leeds and some of their dumb ass comments after Prince died. Just shut up and be decent because otherwise it shows no home training.

[Edited 7/14/17 4:24am]

it's because after MJ reached what wound up being the very pinnacle of his career (when everything was good), he took on a life predicated on presenting and projected a false image, that not only damage his livelihood and his career, but affected those around him because it brought forth a great deal of hostility when it comes to the issue of race...........and hostility and beliggerence is what the false image has left behind.

if MJ had not done that, or I should say, had been led and encouraged to do it, the comments that fans of the past 20 years get angry about, not just comments by a Quincy Jones, but by anyone who does not embrace the false image, if MJ had not taken that route, a comment such as that would not have been said

and the false image that was cast by the most recognizable figure in music, it symbolizes how deeply troubled this nation is over color and how that same host of contradictions have been indoctrinated in ferocity in other nations now beyond the american border

The racial dynamic and everything that fuels it consummed Michael Jackson and eventually overtook him in the likes we have never seen

The transformation was serious and produced a whirle of complications that is very difficult to navigate through and very difficult to weed out, because what it symbolizes shows how much black society has been inflicted by the racial dynamic, white society has been victimized by it without realizing it, and how other culture of people attempting to adapt to this society are being affected by it in this current age. ......and THIS is why the majority of fans, society, and media alike don't want to delve deep of the real truth of Michael Jackson's story because it would be too difficult to listen to and uncomfortable when ultimately, the contradictions of this society is what contributed in shaping it....Those who created this problem do what they always do, they rather gloss over it

and during Michael's period of rebellion during the mid 90s with the release of his album History, he was already given subtle hints how his story was playing out in the song Scream as he said "yall keep changing the rules, I keep playing the game, I can't take it much longer, I think I may go insane".

He was referring to his transformation but the world was not peepin it

the more the rules changed, the more he was required to change his being to not only attain the mantle, but to maintain it

[Edited 7/14/17 6:02am]

MotownSubdivision said:

thesoulbrother said:

They were an excellent team and I don't take anything away from that. However, Quincy Jones' production launched Michael into the stratosphere! I don't think Michael would have had the type of success had it not been for Quincy. They made three historical, monumental albums together. Once they went their separate ways, Michael didn't sell the type of units he once did. The music wasn't as great. His post-Quincy albums (Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On the Dance Floor, Invincible) sold well, but that magic wasn't there and it showed. Even before Michael passed he wanted to work with Quincy again but Q was like "been there, done that." And let's not forget that after working with Michael, when Q dropped Back On the Block in 1989, he SWEPT the Grammys the following year. The last time Michael won a Grammy was for Thriller in 1984.

Didn't Dangerous surpass Bad in sales at one point?

some people think dangerous was his best album, I think he did just fine without quincy, he learned from him and that's what you're suppossed to do, be independent of your mentor. He did fine work, just not enough of it probably due to the strains of his fame and the scandals.

he did, i think it was 2007 or so, quincy didn't reject the idea but mentioned that he didn't need it and that he was 76 years old.

bboy87 said:

Scorp said:

Amen

In 1999, Michael reached out to Quincy to "recreate the magic" for the album that became known as Invincible.

Quincy declined and only then did Michael reach out to Rodney Jerkins through a third party

I checked and it seems Michael reached out to Q in '05 after the trial to see if he was interested but Q turned it down, but that's only one source I can find for that.

He DID reach out to Rod Temperton which resulted in them writing songs together in the mid 2000s (including Best of Joy although Rod's verse was omitted on the Michael album)

[Edited 7/14/17 12:58pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

thesoulbrother said:

They were an excellent team and I don't take anything away from that. However, Quincy Jones' production launched Michael into the stratosphere! I don't think Michael would have had the type of success had it not been for Quincy. They made three historical, monumental albums together. Once they went their separate ways, Michael didn't sell the type of units he once did. The music wasn't as great. His post-Quincy albums (Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On the Dance Floor, Invincible) sold well, but that magic wasn't there and it showed. Even before Michael passed he wanted to work with Quincy again but Q was like "been there, done that." And let's not forget that after working with Michael, when Q dropped Back On the Block in 1989, he SWEPT the Grammys the following year. The last time Michael won a Grammy was for Thriller in 1984.

Didn't Dangerous surpass Bad in sales at one point?

Worldwide, it did for a time. It's at 32 million copies now. With each album, while he didn't re-capture his 1979-1984 sales in the US, he reached new markets globally. It sold over 11 million by the end of '92.

It debuted at #1 in the US, staying there for 4 weeks, and was his fastest selling album in the US. By the end of 1992, it was #47 on the Billboard R&B chart, and was #106 on the Billboard 200. After the Oprah interview and his Grammy Awards speech, Dangerous went to #12 on the R&B chart and #10 Billboard 200

PeteSilas said:

he did, i think it was 2007 or so, quincy didn't reject the idea but mentioned that he didn't need it and that he was 76 years old.

bboy87 said:

I checked and it seems Michael reached out to Q in '05 after the trial to see if he was interested but Q turned it down, but that's only one source I can find for that.

He DID reach out to Rod Temperton which resulted in them writing songs together in the mid 2000s (including Best of Joy although Rod's verse was omitted on the Michael album)

[Edited 7/14/17 12:58pm]

It would've been interesting but by then, I feel they had gone in different directions. It's been suggested that by then, while Michael still wanted to break records and all that, he understood that he wasn't going to outsell Thriller. His plans for This Is It and afterwards kinda confirms that IMO

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

he did, i think it was 2007 or so, quincy didn't reject the idea but mentioned that he didn't need it and that he was 76 years old.

It would've been interesting but by then, I feel they had gone in different directions. It's been suggested that by then, while Michael still wanted to break records and all that, he understood that he wasn't going to outsell Thriller. His plans for This Is It and afterwards kinda confirms that IMO

sure, it would have been interesting, but by asking Q it just gave him a chance to say what he did "give me a break, i'm 74 years old" or whatever. the reason why some of us were angry at Q was that Michael looked to us to be a broken man in his last few years, hunted, running the globe, being seen disquised as a woman, getting kicked out of places by rich guests, he was lost. America had made and busted him, it didn't look fun from the outside, and then he dies, and then his "buddy" talks shit the next day, it's easy to figure out why some of us were angry.