Arbwyth said:

mjscarousal said:

One thing I like about Janet's albums is that her songs have a lot of different meanings and themes. They all don't just mean one thing and can be interpreted different ways which is what I get from this album as well. After listening to the songs again the ones discussed, I still think After you fall is about MJ and is self reflective kinda like her You song on TVR. I think its brilliant how she was able to tie those two things together all the while making it universal where people can also relate to falling and wanting someone to be there when in need. Listening to the Great Forever a couple more times, I do agree its more about her marriage but I also think its about her scolding the media about lies and truths. . Also, I was trying to figure out for the longest time what MJ song The Great Forever reminded me of and I finally figured it out. It sounds exactly like A Place With No Name. It reminds me of a MJ song too. There is alot of MJ influence and references in this album as I listen to it more and more.

Before I listened to the album I read a review somewhere where the reviewer also thought After You Fall was about MJ. I don't know if I would've picked up on that otherwise, but with that in mind it sounded almost like a response to Will You Be There. I mean, sonically the two are nothing alike, but the lyrics struck me as a response to WYBT. I really thought that at the end when she said "I will," but I also like another poster's interpretation that it's about self care.

.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know there are people here who actually know about music rather than pretend (like I do!) but I think The Great Forever and The Way You Make Me Feel are both in 6/8 and have a similar tempo (I believe Madonna's True Blue is as well). That sort of stutter-stop percussion in the background gives all of those songs a pretty distinct vibe, I think, which also might be where some people get MJ vibes on TGF.

Also, does anybody have any theories on the end of The Great Forever, when she says "I wish me being happy didn't make you so sad"? The most obvious answer would be the media, but it sounds like somebody specific, and I think people in the media come across as more angry or vindictive when celebs they've targeted seem to be doing well. (Of course, this may be one of those Janet things that we could discuss endlessly and never even get close to a conclusion!)

And ooooh, Shoulda Known Better. Speaking of the media, I have some angry thoughts on that one. (Not angry at Janet, but at all the fuckknob critics in the 90s who thought it was cute to sit in their offices bashing a woman half their age for trying to make a difference in the world. I'm convinced that 90% of Internet trolls are the children of those bitter-ass music critics. ) Maybe when I get time I'll go off on my rant about that one.

[Edited 10/5/15 17:54pm]

Interesting you brought up will you be there, didn't think of that, although I've read mj fans saying it's eerie how that was the mj single to come out before the first allegations.

I also did think of true blue, the way you make me feel. That beat you're talking about is a shuffle beat, it's nice she finally made a song with one! I love her low tone so much...I wasn't sure what LATFA was when she said it once. About that line, I feel it may have been for media and critics too, possibly haters online.

Shoulda Known Better really made me cry and all emotional. That last line made me sad though, like she's apologizing for even putting herself out there to do good, when there's no need to apologize. I really love her voice on this.

So much more confident, emotional, and alive than either Madonna or Prince's 2015 albums. I agree with Mjscarousel: her vocals are top notch, and they're often in the front. There aren't as many insanely great hooks as before, and I was a skeptic after No Sleeep, but this album's great.

.

We should all be excited. It's really great.

Mintchip said:

So much more confident, emotional, and alive than either Madonna or Prince's 2015 albums. I agree with Mjscarousel: her vocals are top notch, and they're often in the front. There aren't as many insanely great hooks as before, and I was a skeptic after No Sleeep, but this album's great.

.

We should all be excited. It's really great.

Madonna hasn't made a good record in years if you asked me, hard candy was her last good one. Have to admire that she's still continuing on with what she does, but I skipped her tour this time cause I've seen her more than once and don't feel obligated.

I still haven't heard the new prince ones believe it or not, so can't give feedback but I really really really love janet's new one

[Edited 10/5/15 21:58pm]

Arbwyth said:

mjscarousal said:

One thing I like about Janet's albums is that her songs have a lot of different meanings and themes. They all don't just mean one thing and can be interpreted different ways which is what I get from this album as well. After listening to the songs again the ones discussed, I still think After you fall is about MJ and is self reflective kinda like her You song on TVR. I think its brilliant how she was able to tie those two things together all the while making it universal where people can also relate to falling and wanting someone to be there when in need. Listening to the Great Forever a couple more times, I do agree its more about her marriage but I also think its about her scolding the media about lies and truths. . Also, I was trying to figure out for the longest time what MJ song The Great Forever reminded me of and I finally figured it out. It sounds exactly like A Place With No Name. It reminds me of a MJ song too. There is alot of MJ influence and references in this album as I listen to it more and more.

Before I listened to the album I read a review somewhere where the reviewer also thought After You Fall was about MJ. I don't know if I would've picked up on that otherwise, but with that in mind it sounded almost like a response to Will You Be There. I mean, sonically the two are nothing alike, but the lyrics struck me as a response to WYBT. I really thought that at the end when she said "I will," but I also like another poster's interpretation that it's about self care.

.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know there are people here who actually know about music rather than pretend (like I do!) but I think The Great Forever and The Way You Make Me Feel are both in 6/8 and have a similar tempo (I believe Madonna's True Blue is as well). That sort of stutter-stop percussion in the background gives all of those songs a pretty distinct vibe, I think, which also might be where some people get MJ vibes on TGF.

Also, does anybody have any theories on the end of The Great Forever, when she says "I wish me being happy didn't make you so sad"? The most obvious answer would be the media, but it sounds like somebody specific, and I think people in the media come across as more angry or vindictive when celebs they've targeted seem to be doing well. (Of course, this may be one of those Janet things that we could discuss endlessly and never even get close to a conclusion!)

And ooooh, Shoulda Known Better. Speaking of the media, I have some angry thoughts on that one. (Not angry at Janet, but at all the fuckknob critics in the 90s who thought it was cute to sit in their offices bashing a woman half their age for trying to make a difference in the world. I'm convinced that 90% of Internet trolls are the children of those bitter-ass music critics. ) Maybe when I get time I'll go off on my rant about that one.

[Edited 10/5/15 17:54pm]

Great perspectives! I don't think there are any right and wrong with these interpretations because everyone will hear different things in the song.

mjscarousal said:

Arbwyth said:

Before I listened to the album I read a review somewhere where the reviewer also thought After You Fall was about MJ. I don't know if I would've picked up on that otherwise, but with that in mind it sounded almost like a response to Will You Be There. I mean, sonically the two are nothing alike, but the lyrics struck me as a response to WYBT. I really thought that at the end when she said "I will," but I also like another poster's interpretation that it's about self care.

.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know there are people here who actually know about music rather than pretend (like I do!) but I think The Great Forever and The Way You Make Me Feel are both in 6/8 and have a similar tempo (I believe Madonna's True Blue is as well). That sort of stutter-stop percussion in the background gives all of those songs a pretty distinct vibe, I think, which also might be where some people get MJ vibes on TGF.

Also, does anybody have any theories on the end of The Great Forever, when she says "I wish me being happy didn't make you so sad"? The most obvious answer would be the media, but it sounds like somebody specific, and I think people in the media come across as more angry or vindictive when celebs they've targeted seem to be doing well. (Of course, this may be one of those Janet things that we could discuss endlessly and never even get close to a conclusion!)

And ooooh, Shoulda Known Better. Speaking of the media, I have some angry thoughts on that one. (Not angry at Janet, but at all the fuckknob critics in the 90s who thought it was cute to sit in their offices bashing a woman half their age for trying to make a difference in the world. I'm convinced that 90% of Internet trolls are the children of those bitter-ass music critics. ) Maybe when I get time I'll go off on my rant about that one.

[Edited 10/5/15 17:54pm]

Great perspectives! I don't think there are any right and wrong with these interpretations because everyone will hear different things in the song.

agree

alphastreet said:

Mintchip said:

So much more confident, emotional, and alive than either Madonna or Prince's 2015 albums. I agree with Mjscarousel: her vocals are top notch, and they're often in the front. There aren't as many insanely great hooks as before, and I was a skeptic after No Sleeep, but this album's great.

.

We should all be excited. It's really great.

Madonna hasn't made a good record in years if you asked me, hard candy was her last good one. Have to admire that she's still continuing on with what she does, but I skipped her tour this time cause I've seen her more than once and don't feel obligated.

I still haven't heard the new prince ones believe it or not, so can't give feedback but I really really really love janet's new one

[Edited 10/5/15 21:58pm]

>

I'm gonna go as far back as "Confessions".

CynicKill said:

alphastreet said:

Madonna hasn't made a good record in years if you asked me, hard candy was her last good one. Have to admire that she's still continuing on with what she does, but I skipped her tour this time cause I've seen her more than once and don't feel obligated.

I still haven't heard the new prince ones believe it or not, so can't give feedback but I really really really love janet's new one

[Edited 10/5/15 21:58pm]

>

I'm gonna go as far back as "Confessions".

Confessions is perfect start to finish, played it nonstop for years. Hard Candy has a bit of a disruptive flow, but the songs for the most part are strong enough to make it a consistent album. MDNA had some good moments, but was far from her best album.

alphastreet said:

Interesting you brought up will you be there, didn't think of that, although I've read mj fans saying it's eerie how that was the mj single to come out before the first allegations.

I also did think of true blue, the way you make me feel. That beat you're talking about is a shuffle beat, it's nice she finally made a song with one! I love her low tone so much...I wasn't sure what LATFA was when she said it once. About that line, I feel it may have been for media and critics too, possibly haters online.

Shoulda Known Better really made me cry and all emotional. That last line made me sad though, like she's apologizing for even putting herself out there to do good, when there's no need to apologize. I really love her voice on this.

LUTFA at the end of The Great Forever means "Leave Us The Fuck Alone"

SEANMAN said:

I have not had an album move me quite like this one in a while. It makes you wanna dance, sing, cry, it makes you think, it's relaxing, sensual...BRAVO!

I said the same thing, it is a beautiful album and I'm glad she went the personal route. She seems inspired with this album but I also sense melancholy through the songs...So happy to have her back on the music scene.

ok, i had to go to a Target deeper in suburbia where they ain't really checkin' for Janet. So, I copped it, i'm making my way thru it a second time but honestly my first thoughts echoed Graycap's - "not feeling it yet."

the praise that was being lavished upon the album made me expect to like if not LOVE almost EVERY song on first listen (like on RN and VR, which some are saying its as good as) and it was only a few, so I'm dissolving those expectations and appreciating it for what it is while still digesting so my take its that its an introspective, daring, diverse collection with lots of textures even if not many "radio ready hits." people hated on MJ for the seeming "cheesiness" that was his frequent songs lamenting the "state of the world", Janet manages to show she shares a similiar compassion in a way that feels less "contrived" or naive. I've always wondered what an accessible, mature, less sex oriented album from her would sound like, now I see.

I also see why No Sleep was the single. Its the best choice for "black radio" (where she was smart to focus) and honestly, while there are SOLID album tracks that are NOT filler, I think the SINGLE choices are limited, esp. if pop radio gives her the cold shoulder. The bonus track Love U 4 Life to me is the next "best" one for urban radio. Several could be added to the performance too (Take Me Away, Night, etc). So while its cohesive, different and still growing on me i think people want "bedroom Janet" or funky/dance Janet and this is primarily deep, introspective, emotional Janet, citizen of the world and that might not translate to "hits" but I'm satisfied.

I noticed nobody mentioned the Sade-esque moments in various parts of side 2 (even on After U Fall a bit; LOVE her SIGH in that song)

[Edited 10/6/15 11:40am]

Lessons Learned interstingly enough got stuck in my head the most then the GF.

U know, people don't necessarily go to a concert to THINK but they can be inspired right. Man, with these songs and a few others in her catalogue she can curate an emotional, creative "anti-whimsy" suite during the show.

As a matter of fact to drive the point home, she could do it, either before or after the "whimsy" (if she still does that Runaway, Escapade, Alright, she could add Take Me Away).. But with or without a whimsy to contrast, i'd love to see say State of the World, Lessons Learned, Should've Known Better, TGF, The Knowledge, What About and Special. I don't know what the "museum" segment of the show consists of, but i think it would be brave and innovative to include songs with such emotional impact together during the show, she has enough creative people around her to "paint the picture" and do it where ppl feel more inspired than "heavy". she could even have tables with information from some of her favorite charities near the merch. Just sayin', these songs and this album have a maturity/poignancy the show should reflect

[img:$uid]http://i62.tinypic.com/2j3gnco.jpg[/img:$uid]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

[img:$uid]http://i62.tinypic.com/2j3gnco.jpg[/img:$uid]

Janet hooked herself UP suhweet. Good for her, I'm glad she found someone on her level

purplethunder3121 said:

lowkey said:

i agree the great forever speaks about her marriage, especially the part where she says 'dont know why who she loves is so radical to you". its addressing the muslim issue.

The true value of this album is not only how it speaks volumes about Janet's own experiences but also how much the listener can relate it to their own personal experiences, too. IMHO

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

[img:$uid]http://i58.tinypic.com/3309q86.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i62.tinypic.com/2qi2p7k.jpg[/img:$uid]

Did Janet bully Khia? Around 15:35.

[Edited 10/6/15 16:40pm]

alphastreet said:

Arbwyth said:

Before I listened to the album I read a review somewhere where the reviewer also thought After You Fall was about MJ. I don't know if I would've picked up on that otherwise, but with that in mind it sounded almost like a response to Will You Be There. I mean, sonically the two are nothing alike, but the lyrics struck me as a response to WYBT. I really thought that at the end when she said "I will," but I also like another poster's interpretation that it's about self care.

.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know there are people here who actually know about music rather than pretend (like I do!) but I think The Great Forever and The Way You Make Me Feel are both in 6/8 and have a similar tempo (I believe Madonna's True Blue is as well). That sort of stutter-stop percussion in the background gives all of those songs a pretty distinct vibe, I think, which also might be where some people get MJ vibes on TGF.

Also, does anybody have any theories on the end of The Great Forever, when she says "I wish me being happy didn't make you so sad"? The most obvious answer would be the media, but it sounds like somebody specific, and I think people in the media come across as more angry or vindictive when celebs they've targeted seem to be doing well. (Of course, this may be one of those Janet things that we could discuss endlessly and never even get close to a conclusion!)

And ooooh, Shoulda Known Better. Speaking of the media, I have some angry thoughts on that one. (Not angry at Janet, but at all the fuckknob critics in the 90s who thought it was cute to sit in their offices bashing a woman half their age for trying to make a difference in the world. I'm convinced that 90% of Internet trolls are the children of those bitter-ass music critics. ) Maybe when I get time I'll go off on my rant about that one.

[Edited 10/5/15 17:54pm]

Interesting you brought up will you be there, didn't think of that, although I've read mj fans saying it's eerie how that was the mj single to come out before the first allegations.

I also did think of true blue, the way you make me feel. That beat you're talking about is a shuffle beat, it's nice she finally made a song with one! I love her low tone so much...I wasn't sure what LATFA was when she said it once. About that line, I feel it may have been for media and critics too, possibly haters online.

Shoulda Known Better really made me cry and all emotional. That last line made me sad though, like she's apologizing for even putting herself out there to do good, when there's no need to apologize. I really love her voice on this.

Yeah, that was what made me pissed! I think she's being a little sardonic and acerbic in that part, though; if she literally believed it I don't think she'd have named her label Rhythm Nation Records. And if you look at how frequently she's continued to perform RN (the song) even in the Discipline era, for example, I think that era and movement continues to be really important to her. But it's clear that she still feels hurt over how some of those critics reacted, and I don't blame her. (OK, I'm also glad that I'm not the only one who remains pissed to this day about it!) I still don't understand how the critics got their tits in such a tangle over her “not offering solutions” on Rhythm Nation. I mean, come on, it’s an album, not a goddamn grant application! And you know half those clowns probably love the shit out of John Lennon, yet his most enduring musical legacy is telling people to imagine a better world! Don’t get me wrong, I also love the shit out of John Lennon and don’t see Imagine’s lack of solutions as being remotely detrimental, but if you’re going to be negative at least be consistent and rational in your negativity. Seriously, those damn critics needed to put the pacifiers back in their mouths and get over their Mammy complexes already. You’re not baby birds, why do you need this shit chewed up and regurgitated directly into your mouth?

oslobro said:

alphastreet said:

Interesting you brought up will you be there, didn't think of that, although I've read mj fans saying it's eerie how that was the mj single to come out before the first allegations.

I also did think of true blue, the way you make me feel. That beat you're talking about is a shuffle beat, it's nice she finally made a song with one! I love her low tone so much...I wasn't sure what LATFA was when she said it once. About that line, I feel it may have been for media and critics too, possibly haters online.

Shoulda Known Better really made me cry and all emotional. That last line made me sad though, like she's apologizing for even putting herself out there to do good, when there's no need to apologize. I really love her voice on this.

LUTFA at the end of The Great Forever means "Leave Us The Fuck Alone"

OMFG is it really bad that that makes me love the song even more?

.

mjscarousal said:

Arbwyth said:

Before I listened to the album I read a review somewhere where the reviewer also thought After You Fall was about MJ. I don't know if I would've picked up on that otherwise, but with that in mind it sounded almost like a response to Will You Be There. I mean, sonically the two are nothing alike, but the lyrics struck me as a response to WYBT. I really thought that at the end when she said "I will," but I also like another poster's interpretation that it's about self care.

.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know there are people here who actually know about music rather than pretend (like I do!) but I think The Great Forever and The Way You Make Me Feel are both in 6/8 and have a similar tempo (I believe Madonna's True Blue is as well). That sort of stutter-stop percussion in the background gives all of those songs a pretty distinct vibe, I think, which also might be where some people get MJ vibes on TGF.

Also, does anybody have any theories on the end of The Great Forever, when she says "I wish me being happy didn't make you so sad"? The most obvious answer would be the media, but it sounds like somebody specific, and I think people in the media come across as more angry or vindictive when celebs they've targeted seem to be doing well. (Of course, this may be one of those Janet things that we could discuss endlessly and never even get close to a conclusion!)

And ooooh, Shoulda Known Better. Speaking of the media, I have some angry thoughts on that one. (Not angry at Janet, but at all the fuckknob critics in the 90s who thought it was cute to sit in their offices bashing a woman half their age for trying to make a difference in the world. I'm convinced that 90% of Internet trolls are the children of those bitter-ass music critics. ) Maybe when I get time I'll go off on my rant about that one.

[Edited 10/5/15 17:54pm]

Great perspectives! I don't think there are any right and wrong with these interpretations because everyone will hear different things in the song.

Thanks! Yeah, and Jan's not usually very forthcoming in interviews about what her songs are about, so you know this is exactly what she wants us to be doing after listening to the album. WE ARE PLAYING RIGHT INTO HER HANDS, YOU GUYS.

Arbwyth said:

oslobro said:

LUTFA at the end of The Great Forever means "Leave Us The Fuck Alone"

OMFG is it really bad that that makes me love the song even more?

.

CynicKill said:

Did Janet bully Khia? Around 15:35.

[Edited 10/6/15 16:40pm]

Who?

purplethunder3121 said:

CynicKill said:

Did Janet bully Khia? Around 15:35.

[Edited 10/6/15 16:40pm]

Who?

>

I feel you!

datdude said:

Lessons Learned interstingly enough got stuck in my head the most then the GF.

U know, people don't necessarily go to a concert to THINK but they can be inspired right. Man, with these songs and a few others in her catalogue she can curate an emotional, creative "anti-whimsy" suite during the show.

As a matter of fact to drive the point home, she could do it, either before or after the "whimsy" (if she still does that Runaway, Escapade, Alright, she could add Take Me Away).. But with or without a whimsy to contrast, i'd love to see say State of the World, Lessons Learned, Should've Known Better, TGF, The Knowledge, What About and Special. I don't know what the "museum" segment of the show consists of, but i think it would be brave and innovative to include songs with such emotional impact together during the show, she has enough creative people around her to "paint the picture" and do it where ppl feel more inspired than "heavy". she could even have tables with information from some of her favorite charities near the merch. Just sayin', these songs and this album have a maturity/poignancy the show should reflect

she dont do the whimsical segment, she does perform 'shoulda known better' , i hope she add at least 4 more new song, she already does like 5.the museum is not part of the show, its something for the fans before the show starts, its literally a janet museum with lots of her awards, tour costumes and other things. during her last show beforethe break janet surprised fans by showing up in the museum.

^^I like that she switched it up this time by nixing the "whimsical" segment and the pulling a guy from the audience segment (I'm sure the latter is out of respect for her husband and her newfound spirituality). I hope she does add more songs from the album, too. I'd keel over if she did DAMMN BABY by doing nothing more than standing at the mic and vamping. I would literally lose it .

Any fans int he UK tickets go on sale Friday for the UK leg of the tour

BlackCat1985 said:

Been listening to this album non-stop since Thursday! My favorites are constantly changing. First it was "Night". Then it was Well Traveled". After that " Dammn Baby". Now it's "The Great Forever". This song felt so weird to me at first because Janet sounds exactly like Michael. So much so that my kids were like " Mom I thought you were listening to Janet! That's Michael"! Lol!!! I freakin' love this song! What would you guys classify it as. It's not RnB not really pop either. The music and harmonies are beautiful. Janet is definitely taking shots at the media. All the years of scrutiny must taken a toll. And Lol at LUTFA! That definitely means LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE. Janet might be quiet, shy, and soft spoken. But she knows how to throw shade when she wants to. [Edited 10/7/15 5:57am]

i lovvve 'the great forever', and i agree with everyday your favorites change, right now im in love with 'dream maker/euphoria'.

lowkey said:

BlackCat1985 said:

Been listening to this album non-stop since Thursday! My favorites are constantly changing. First it was "Night". Then it was Well Traveled". After that " Dammn Baby". Now it's "The Great Forever". This song felt so weird to me at first because Janet sounds exactly like Michael. So much so that my kids were like " Mom I thought you were listening to Janet! That's Michael"! Lol!!! I freakin' love this song! What would you guys classify it as. It's not RnB not really pop either. The music and harmonies are beautiful. Janet is definitely taking shots at the media. All the years of scrutiny must taken a toll. And Lol at LUTFA! That definitely means LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE. Janet might be quiet, shy, and soft spoken. But she knows how to throw shade when she wants to. [Edited 10/7/15 5:57am]

i lovvve 'the great forever', and i agree with everyday your favorites change, right now im in love with 'dream maker/euphoria'.

had that in my head a few min ago it's so pretty and sensual, but I also hear sadness too

Great comeback from Janet that's made me go back and dig out my old Janet albums. Haven't listened to this much JJ since the mid-nineties. Kinda feels like I'm reliving my youth to some degree.

As for the new album, I think the first half is definately stronger than the second half. I consider After You Fall to be the best ballad she's ever sung, and stuff like Unbreakable, The Great Forever, Night and Broken Hearts Heal are all A grade material. And I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the young MJ sample on Dream Maker - that was a nice touch.

I do feel the album would be stronger without Take Me Away and 2 B Loved, which sound a bit filler-ish to me.

Overall though, this is definately her most satisfying, focused and mature work since TVR. Well played Jan.

[Edited 10/7/15 11:52am]