Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Overhyped and overrated. There's plenty of rap/hip hop artists in the game that are making much better music than he is, IMHO.

Real true. I heard one song and was NOT impressed.

He has a few good songs, but nothing that makes me think he'll be the future of hip-hop. It's all in the shock value. He isn't really doing anything that hasn't been done before *cough* EMINEM *cough*.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Real true. I heard one song and was NOT impressed.

He has a few good songs, but nothing that makes me think he'll be the future of hip-hop. It's all in the shock value. He isn't really doing anything that hasn't been done before *cough* EMINEM *cough*.

JoeTyler said:

I'm with you. Scream was just not as good as You Are Not Alone / They Don't Care About Us

Scream >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You Are Not Alone

I love you guys.... you never know what to expect from some of you!! LOL

Unholyalliance said:

JoeTyler said:

I'm with you. Scream was just not as good as You Are Not Alone / They Don't Care About Us

Scream >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You Are Not Alone

You are not alone - boring and banal, but it pleasant to listen, nice tune!

Earth song>>>Stranger in Moscow>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>others from HIStory.
These 2 songs are masterpieces and peak MJ as a songwriter.

They do not care about us.
It's very, very angry and aggressive song, but I love it.

[Edited 10/10/11 11:36am]

mjscarousal said:

RKJCNE said:

I don't see why expressing an opinion on Michael Jackson upsets you so much, or why you constantly attack me.

Either way you'd better calm down.

I dont constantly attack you. YOU constantly say dumbass shit lol I have a right to express my opinion as well and thats all I did.. I dont know how in Gods name you expect for ANYBODY to take any of your music opinions seriously when you go on rants about how Rhinna is this or that and Beyonce music is great BUT got the fuckin audacity to say MICHAEL JACKSON did not show no growth as an artist AFTER Thriller?? Are you feeling okay buddy? Or have you lost your marbles... You constantly praise artists who make generic pop garbage but then say some wack ass shit that Michael Jackson did not grow as a artist... Well fuck if History or Dangerous is bland then what the hell makes any of Rhinna albums or Beyonce.. you show biasedness and lack to be open minded in your opinions. I dont care if you ever listen to Michael Jackson or even like him but I will not sit here and just allow you to say outlandish shit. Their are folks who are not even fans of MJ admit that Michael showed growth even if they thought his material wasnt as great as Off The Wall etc..

Why do you insist on bringing Rihanna and Beyonce into this discussion, I don't compare them to MJ, you do. I don't listen to them for "artistic growth" I listen to them to have fun. Which is why I listen to Thriller or OTW. But for me HIStory is ruined by MJ's ambitions. I simply think as an album it is too big headed. I hate They Don't Really Care about us, MJ made an anthem about racism and put a racial slur in it "Jew Me". Songs like Earth Song and Stranger just sound so silly and too self important to me, especially against the backdrop of MJ as a giant statue.

That's my opinion and you don't have to get so heated about it.

[Edited 10/10/11 12:58pm]

RKJCNE said:

Why do you insist on bringing Rihanna and Beyonce into this discussion, I don't compare them to MJ, you do. I don't listen to them for "artistic growth" I listen to them to have fun. Which is why I listen to Thriller or OTW. But for me HIStory is ruined by MJ's ambitions. I simply think as an album it is too big headed. I hate They Don't Really Care about us, MJ made an anthem about racism and put a racial slur in it "Jew Me". Songs like Earth Song and Stranger just sound so silly and too self important to me, especially against the backdrop of MJ as a giant statue.

That's my opinion and you don't have to get so heated about it.

[Edited 10/10/11 12:58pm]

I had no idea the term 'Jew Me' is considered a racial slur. I actually, don't even remember them bitching about that term, it was the other one.

I know it's just your opinion, but I don't hear the arrogance in some of the songs you are citing, especially in those songs. Are you hearing it because you are too caught up in the image?

Unholyalliance said:

RKJCNE said:

Why do you insist on bringing Rihanna and Beyonce into this discussion, I don't compare them to MJ, you do. I don't listen to them for "artistic growth" I listen to them to have fun. Which is why I listen to Thriller or OTW. But for me HIStory is ruined by MJ's ambitions. I simply think as an album it is too big headed. I hate They Don't Really Care about us, MJ made an anthem about racism and put a racial slur in it "Jew Me". Songs like Earth Song and Stranger just sound so silly and too self important to me, especially against the backdrop of MJ as a giant statue.

That's my opinion and you don't have to get so heated about it.

[Edited 10/10/11 12:58pm]

I had no idea the term 'Jew Me' is considered a racial slur. I actually, don't even remember them bitching about that term, it was the other one.

I know it's just your opinion, but I don't hear the arrogance in some of the songs you are citing, especially in those songs. Are you hearing it because you are too caught up in the image?

I forgot to mention that "Kike" part, but both parts are pretty offensive, especially as he is singing about mistreatment of races.

That's what happens with pop stars, their image is irrevocably tied to their music, and MJ's image is a big turn off to me. Perhaps i'd like more of his post Thriller music if it was someone completely different, but as it stands I don't like it. I don't see how critising MJ as an artist is arrogant, every artist is subject to that.

RKJCNE said:

I don't see how critising MJ as an artist is arrogant, every artist is subject to that.

What? No one said that.

RKJCNE said:

Why do you insist on bringing Rihanna and Beyonce into this discussion, I don't compare them to MJ, you do. I don't listen to them for "artistic growth" I listen to them to have fun. Which is why I listen to Thriller or OTW. But for me HIStory is ruined by MJ's ambitions. I simply think as an album it is too big headed. I hate They Don't Really Care about us, MJ made an anthem about racism and put a racial slur in it "Jew Me". Songs like Earth Song and Stranger just sound so silly and too self important to me, especially against the backdrop of MJ as a giant statue.

That's my opinion and you don't have to get so heated about it.

[Edited 10/10/11 12:58pm]

I do not know, I love his creativity of the 90s more than the 80s.
I like songs such as Give in to me, Who is it, Keep the faith, Will you be there, Someone put your hand out, Earth song, TDCAU, Stranger in Moscow, more than any song from the Off the Wall (besides Don`t stop ....).

Earth Song - a beautiful song. I do not understand how someone can not love it?

To me, people's attitude to this song define human moral qualities in many ways.
The song is strong and global.

Everyone can like or not this song (this is subjective), but to say that it is bad or "silly" - really silly.

Your problem is that you are so extremely biased.

Unholyalliance said:

RKJCNE said:

I don't see how critising MJ as an artist is arrogant, every artist is subject to that.

What? No one said that.

I'm sorry, I miss read you. Orging well in the middle of class can get confusing.

I see what you're saying, but as an MJ fan aren't you biased too?

And I say silly because it just doesn't come off as very genuine to me.

RKJCNE said:

mjscarousal said:

I dont constantly attack you. YOU constantly say dumbass shit lol I have a right to express my opinion as well and thats all I did.. I dont know how in Gods name you expect for ANYBODY to take any of your music opinions seriously when you go on rants about how Rhinna is this or that and Beyonce music is great BUT got the fuckin audacity to say MICHAEL JACKSON did not show no growth as an artist AFTER Thriller?? Are you feeling okay buddy? Or have you lost your marbles... You constantly praise artists who make generic pop garbage but then say some wack ass shit that Michael Jackson did not grow as a artist... Well fuck if History or Dangerous is bland then what the hell makes any of Rhinna albums or Beyonce.. you show biasedness and lack to be open minded in your opinions. I dont care if you ever listen to Michael Jackson or even like him but I will not sit here and just allow you to say outlandish shit. Their are folks who are not even fans of MJ admit that Michael showed growth even if they thought his material wasnt as great as Off The Wall etc..

Why do you insist on bringing Rihanna and Beyonce into this discussion, I don't compare them to MJ, you do. I don't listen to them for "artistic growth" I listen to them to have fun. Which is why I listen to Thriller or OTW. But for me HIStory is ruined by MJ's ambitions. I simply think as an album it is too big headed. I hate They Don't Really Care about us, MJ made an anthem about racism and put a racial slur in it "Jew Me". Songs like Earth Song and Stranger just sound so silly and too self important to me, especially against the backdrop of MJ as a giant statue.

That's my opinion and you don't have to get so heated about it.

[Edited 10/10/11 12:58pm]

You would get SO much more respect from me if you would just ADMIT to being biased.

First off that is not what you said in your original post.

What you said was that AFTER THRILLER MJ did not show ANY artistic growth which is bullshit.

Even a NON MJ fan would tell you that.

Thinking that MJ was to big head on History has NOTHING to do with artistic growth.

All it shows is your personal biased toward the album as well as MJ which once again has nothing to do with artistry, production, creativity, lyrical content of the overall album.

Stop being so biased and learn that how you feel about an artist has nothing to do with their works.

Secret, definitely. Scream was not good at all. I remember being extremely excited when it got its first spin on the radio. I heard it and was extremly disappointed.

The video is what saves it imo.

I love MJ but he definitely stopped growing as an artist at a certain point. History, Invincible, and the last album are just mediocre.

Secret..obviously..the song and the video. Scream is one of MJ worst songs ever!

RKJCNE said:

I see what you're saying, but as an MJ fan aren't you biased too?

And I say silly because it just doesn't come off as very genuine to me.

No, I'm not biased.
Michael is not my favorite artist, probably in the top 5 (I prefer rock-music, but it is not popular on this forum).
I can not live long in any MJ fan site, I would be quickly banned.

I have a complicated relationship to the MJ-person, but as an artist - he's just great, one of the greatest ever. He just has one of the largest packages of abilities among the artists
I respect his talent and love his work enough.

Michael had frankly weak points: Invincible - a terrible album, except for 3-4 songs; post-death releases -just not good and mostly fake (but it`s not his fault).

I'm even not a huge fan (just casual fan) of Off the Wall and Thriller (besides the obvious masterpieces - Billie Jean and Beat it).

But Bad, Dangerous and History (аlthough it has several weak tracks, unlike the other two) - my favorite albums of Jackson, so I think he's grown as a songwriter.

As for Earth Song .... There are only a few songs that can make me shed a tear - this is one of them.
Brilliant work, very strongly and emotionally, so I do not know how anyone could not love it (even more - not respect ).

[Edited 10/10/11 15:43pm]

LiLi1992 said:

RKJCNE said:

I see what you're saying, but as an MJ fan aren't you biased too?

And I say silly because it just doesn't come off as very genuine to me.

No, I'm not biased.
Michael is not my favorite artist, probably in the top 5 (I prefer rock-music, but it is not popular on this forum).
I can not live long in any MJ fan site, I would be quickly banned.

I have a complicated relationship to the MJ-person, but as an artist - he's just great, one of the greatest ever. He just has one of the largest packages of abilities among the artists
I respect his talent and love his work enough.

Michael had frankly weak points: Invincible - a terrible album, except for 3-4 songs; post-death releases -just not good and mostly fake (but it`s not his fault).

I'm even not a huge fan (just casual fan) of Off the Wall and Thriller (besides the obvious masterpieces - Billie Jean and Beat it).

But Bad, Dangerous and History (аlthough it has several weak tracks, unlike the other two) - my favorite albums of Jackson, so I think he's grown as a songwriter.

As for Earth Song .... There are only a few songs that can make me shed a tear - this is one of them.
Brilliant work, very strongly and emotionally, so I do not know how anyone could not love it (even more - not respect ).

I guess you are able to see past the image where I'm not. More power to you!

I respect the message it sends, but I just don't like it as a song.

I am curoius to know what people's reactions to about TDRCAU I mean it's a song about discrimination in which he himself uses discriminitory language. Am I the only one bothered by that?

Scream. You can feel his pure anger being unleashed. The way he says "fucking" is like combining all the emotions inside one's self into one state.

RKJCNE said:

LiLi1992 said:

No, I'm not biased.
Michael is not my favorite artist, probably in the top 5 (I prefer rock-music, but it is not popular on this forum).
I can not live long in any MJ fan site, I would be quickly banned.

I have a complicated relationship to the MJ-person, but as an artist - he's just great, one of the greatest ever. He just has one of the largest packages of abilities among the artists
I respect his talent and love his work enough.

Michael had frankly weak points: Invincible - a terrible album, except for 3-4 songs; post-death releases -just not good and mostly fake (but it`s not his fault).

I'm even not a huge fan (just casual fan) of Off the Wall and Thriller (besides the obvious masterpieces - Billie Jean and Beat it).

But Bad, Dangerous and History (аlthough it has several weak tracks, unlike the other two) - my favorite albums of Jackson, so I think he's grown as a songwriter.

As for Earth Song .... There are only a few songs that can make me shed a tear - this is one of them.
Brilliant work, very strongly and emotionally, so I do not know how anyone could not love it (even more - not respect ).

I guess you are able to see past the image where I'm not. More power to you!

I respect the message it sends, but I just don't like it as a song.

I am curoius to know what people's reactions to about TDRCAU I mean it's a song about discrimination in which he himself uses discriminitory language. Am I the only one bothered by that?

I see it as how rappers do with n*gga. They are not trying to hate on them. Also when MJ says that he's being methaphorical. He meas "I am the jew. I am the abused black man." He's saying he understands what discrimated people go through and it needs to be stopped.

RKJCNE said:

I am curoius to know what people's reactions to about TDRCAU I mean it's a song about discrimination in which he himself uses discriminitory language. Am I the only one bothered by that?

I personally thought it was awesome! It makes the song much more powerful by drawing attention to said discrimination. And the song is phenomenal!

aardvark15 said:

RKJCNE said:

I guess you are able to see past the image where I'm not. More power to you!

I respect the message it sends, but I just don't like it as a song.

I am curoius to know what people's reactions to about TDRCAU I mean it's a song about discrimination in which he himself uses discriminitory language. Am I the only one bothered by that?

I see it as how rappers do with n*gga. They are not trying to hate on them. Also when MJ says that he's being methaphorical. He meas "I am the jew. I am the abused black man." He's saying he understands what discrimated people go through and it needs to be stopped.

That's what I took from it as well.

AlexdeParis said:

RKJCNE said:

I am curoius to know what people's reactions to about TDRCAU I mean it's a song about discrimination in which he himself uses discriminitory language. Am I the only one bothered by that?

I personally thought it was awesome! It makes the song much more powerful by drawing attention to said discrimination. And the song is phenomenal!

100%

people who miss the point - it's like - RULLY??? - get a clue

badujunkie said:

AlexdeParis said:

I personally thought it was awesome! It makes the song much more powerful by drawing attention to said discrimination. And the song is phenomenal!

100%

people who miss the point - it's like - RULLY??? - get a clue

I guess I just assumed if that is what he was going for he would have used more than just anti semetic phrases.

RKJCNE said:

badujunkie said:

100%

people who miss the point - it's like - RULLY??? - get a clue

I guess I just assumed if that is what he was going for he would have used more than just anti semetic phrases.

I see your point but I just don't think he was doing that to just cause controversy... you have to read between the lines with some of the stuff he was doing.

Timmy84 said:

RKJCNE said:

I guess I just assumed if that is what he was going for he would have used more than just anti semetic phrases.

I see your point but I just don't think he was doing that to just cause controversy... you have to read between the lines with some of the stuff he was doing.

Also I don't think MJ would in a billion years ever use the word n^gger in a song which is like the biggie as far as racial and religious slurs go

aardvark15 said:

Timmy84 said:

I see your point but I just don't think he was doing that to just cause controversy... you have to read between the lines with some of the stuff he was doing.

Also I don't think MJ would in a billion years ever use the word n^gger in a song which is like the biggie as far as racial and religious slurs go

Yeah, though he let Biggie say "n***a" on "This Time Around" but that's not related to TDCAU.

Timmy84 said:

aardvark15 said:

Also I don't think MJ would in a billion years ever use the word n^gger in a song which is like the biggie as far as racial and religious slurs go

Yeah, though he let Biggie say "n***a" on "This Time Around" but that's not related to TDCAU.

But MJ didn't say it. He didn't want to "surpress Biggie's creative process"

aardvark15 said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah, though he let Biggie say "n***a" on "This Time Around" but that's not related to TDCAU.

But MJ didn't say it. He didn't want to "surpress Biggie's creative process"

JoeTyler said:

I hate "Scream", it sounds too early-90s (even like a Dangerous leftover), too agressive, bitter, forced, messy...

please post a song from the early 90s that sounds like scream that is NOT mj related.

TotalAlisa said:

JoeTyler said:

I hate "Scream", it sounds too early-90s (even like a Dangerous leftover), too agressive, bitter, forced, messy...

please post a song from the early 90s that sounds like scream that is NOT mj related.

Well... pull out any 90's Janet Jackson record for starters. She obviously had her producers have a say in the song. Like write and produce it.

[Edited 10/11/11 5:43am]

RKJCNE said:

I guess you are able to see past the image where I'm not. More power to you!

I think it's a little disappointing when people get so caught up in the image and can't see past it. This is why I don't get myself caught up in that shit. I like to be able to experience a piece of art and just appreciate it for what it is instead of getting caught up in unnecessary nonsense. Could you imagine not enjoying Madonna's music, because of her bitchy image? Or not enjoying Prince because of his? Or not enjoying hip hop simply because you think that ALL rappers are a bunch of idiotic thugs? I feel that line of thinking leads into other narrow-minded approaches/views in one's life.

I am curoius to know what people's reactions to about TDRCAU I mean it's a song about discrimination in which he himself uses discriminitory language. Am I the only one bothered by that?

It's about context. Not because it's MJ, but I would afford that to any artist. At the end of the day, it's just really a word. It's about how much meaning you give it.

Example: in Lady Gaga's Born This Way, she did use some less than desirable terms to refer to a whole bunch of people. Even though 'orient' and 'chola' are not racial slurs but I mean who is of 'chola' descent and wtf is up with using the terms 'orient' in this day and age? It's the same as referring to someone as being 'colored.' That to me is way more offensive than MJ's use of actual racial slurs since Lady Gaga was actively referring to groups of people rather than MJ who was being metaphoriocal about it.

What's even more fucked up is that no one barely said anything, because stereotypical images of Hispanic/Latinos and Asians are still accepted in Western media. Yet MJ got criticized up his ass for it.