HuMpThAnG said:

How come Springsteen isn't mentioned on this list?

He was a driving force in the 80's as well

Springsteen is amazing and he was very popular, but not really for more than one album and although her has an amazing catalogue he isn't very pop. His name would be confusing next to MJ, Prince and Madge. Plus I can't think of many artists who are influenced by him today as compared to the other three.

the truth is: Whitney isn't as popular as Madonna, Prince, MJ, Duran Duran, Springsteen, Tina, U2, Bon Jovi or Def Leppard...

those acts own the 80's, but not Shitney...

That's a good question and I'm laughing at all the responses.I think it does come down to the fact that Whitney was more of a pop "singer" and not a pop "artist". I like Whitney and all but she wasn't as cool as the other three, but she was definitely just as big as they were, let's not forget she was so big, she got boo'd at the soul train awards lol. But truth be told, Whitney did rule 86 and 87 so she should be included with them. Her debut and sophomore albums were huge and she was very much an MTV star. If i'm not mistaken she tied Madonna for most successful female artist of the 80's. Whitney was making and breaking records from mid 85-mid 88, and winning a lot of awards too. And to the one who mentioned Janet, although I love Janets music better than Whitneys, Whitney was bigger. Just look at the numbers. Whitney's debut album sold more than "Control" and "Rhythm Nation" combined, and she had seven #1 singles between both her 80's albums too. I would say the big three are still "Madonna, Michael and Prince" simply bc they had more of a "cool" factor, and also had a few more years than Whitney into the 80's. Now one thing Whitney does have over them, is that her success carried over to the 90's more than the other three, with Madonna coming in second.

The 1980s were a decade of outrageousness. It was the decade of big hair, wild hair, wild clothes, wild attitude, etc. Just look at some of the entertainers such as Cyndi Lauper, Adam Ant, A Flock Of Seaguls, etc. As Lionel Richie said all through the American Music Awards ceremony in 1985...."outrageous".

With Prince, you had an androgenous looking man who didn't speak which made him extremely mysterious. With Michael, you had a semi-feminine looking man at the time (he became much more feminine looking later in the 1990s) who was strange as hell going to awards shows carrying Emmanuel Lewis and strange rumors around him such as buying Elephant Man bones and sleeping in crazy chambers and things. With Madonna, you had an outspoken, outrageoous, and controversial slut, and sluts and whores always get attention and are going to be remembered. Long live the sluts and whores because they are wonderful. Combine these outrageous things about the three artists along with huge sales and they are going to be remembered forever and will always define the 1980s which was a decade of outrageousness.

Shitney was a little dull goodie two shoes barbie doll pulling petals off a flower one at a time wondered if the football captain...."If he loves me...if he loves me not". Now, just look back at your high school years. Who do you remember the most? The gay guy, the rebel, the class clown, the bully, the punk rocker guy, and the class slut. Who the hell remembers the average, down to earth, little goodie two shoes from high school? There were too many of them and they didn't stand out. They just blended in with the rest of the "normal people" and normal people are dull and forgettable always have been. In time, Shitney will be more remembered for being the crackhead later on in life more than her musical career because she never stood out during her musical career. Actually, her crackhead years were much more entertaining than her musical years.

@Tylerhippie, JoeTyler, & Vainandy........In the song, Rock The Bells, LL Cool J has the right idea about who were THE biggest stars of the 1980's at the time.

The bells are circulatin' the blood in your veins
Why are girlies on the tip, L.L.'s your name
Cut Creator's good, Cool J. is good-good
You bring the wood pecker, I'll bring the wood
The bells are wippin' and rippin' at your body and soul
Why do you like Cool J., we like rock and roll
Cause it ain't the glory days with Bruce Springsteen
I'm not a virgin so I know I'll make Madonna scream
You hated Michael and Prince all the way, ever since
If their beats were made of meat, then they would have to be mince
Rock the bells

Notice in THIS^ verse that LL never said anything about Whitney. I rest my case!

Well the charts speak differently, going by numbers and numbers alone, she belongs in the big three based on 1985-1988. However, going from an artistic point of view, then no she shouldn't be included. Her impact was big too, as vainady likes to mention lol, but it was more in line with singers, not so much artists.

vainandy said:

The 1980s were a decade of outrageousness. It was the decade of big hair, wild hair, wild clothes, wild attitude, etc. Just look at some of the entertainers such as Cyndi Lauper, Adam Ant, A Flock Of Seaguls, etc. As Lionel Richie said all through the American Music Awards ceremony in 1985...."outrageous".

With Prince, you had an androgenous looking man who didn't speak which made him extremely mysterious. With Michael, you had a semi-feminine looking man at the time (he became much more feminine looking later in the 1990s) who was strange as hell going to awards shows carrying Emmanuel Lewis and strange rumors around him such as buying Elephant Man bones and sleeping in crazy chambers and things. With Madonna, you had an outspoken, outrageoous, and controversial slut, and sluts and whores always get attention and are going to be remembered. Long live the sluts and whores because they are wonderful. Combine these outrageous things about the three artists along with huge sales and they are going to be remembered forever and will always define the 1980s which was a decade of outrageousness.

Shitney was a little dull goodie two shoes barbie doll pulling petals off a flower one at a time wondered if the football captain...."If he loves me...if he loves me not". Now, just look back at your high school years. Who do you remember the most? The gay guy, the rebel, the class clown, the bully, the punk rocker guy, and the class slut. Who the hell remembers the average, down to earth, little goodie two shoes from high school? There were too many of them and they didn't stand out. They just blended in with the rest of the "normal people" and normal people are dull and forgettable always have been. In time, Shitney will be more remembered for being the crackhead later on in life more than her musical career because she never stood out during her musical career. Actually, her crackhead years were much more entertaining than her musical years.

Good point

And, as I've said, the average Joe remembers the two Bodyguard hit ballads, and those are early-90's hits. Shitney, Michael Bolton and Kenny G represent the nadir of the 88-90 era: BLANDNESS, in a decade that screamed outrageousness...

How Will (or was it Would?) I Know??? ha!!! who remembers that shit??

TonyVanDam said:

@Tylerhippie, JoeTyler, & Vainandy........In the song, Rock The Bells, LL Cool J has the right idea about who were THE biggest stars of the 1980's at the time.

The bells are circulatin' the blood in your veins
Why are girlies on the tip, L.L.'s your name
Cut Creator's good, Cool J. is good-good
You bring the wood pecker, I'll bring the wood
The bells are wippin' and rippin' at your body and soul
Why do you like Cool J., we like rock and roll
Cause it ain't the glory days with Bruce Springsteen
I'm not a virgin so I know I'll make Madonna scream
You hated Michael and Prince all the way, ever since
If their beats were made of meat, then they would have to be mince
Rock the bells

Notice in THIS^ verse that LL never said anything about Whitney. I rest my case!

that's it, those are the four giants

and then you'd have DuranDuran, Tina, U2 and Bon Jovi...

Actually nowadays I hear very little mention of Whitney's success as a crossover pop artist. Maybe it's revisionism because she definitely was popular between 1986 to at least 1999 but I'm guessing it's because as an artist her albums just fall flat to some people and her music was always a contrast to her live performances (which was a number-one complaint by some black fans). Plus a lot of the 1990s albums after The Bodyguard eclipsed what Whitney had accomplished. Sometimes, you forget she was even THAT BIG of a star when you hear headlines about her last tour in Europe and Australia. At least big enough where she could be considered in the league of a Jackson or a Prince or a Madonna. But I'm guessing because her audience, albeit big, was limited (much like the Carpenters though they were huge overseas, they are not always mentioned in the list of big '70s stars like Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd). Maybe it just depends on the genre. Plus with Whitney, it's hard to categorize her as "pop" or "R&B" since the music that made her popular definitely wouldn't make her "R&B" or "pop" in the modern sense but more of a traditional sense.

And to be honest I think nowadays Whitney is known as the once-talented singer that has now lost her way with a crack addiction. Plus the interviews with Wendy and Diane and her being parodied on MadTV and Saturday Night Live haven't helped much.

And lemme clarify, Whitney was indeed a HUGE star but I'm guessing in the CONTEXT of the artists she's being compared - with probably the exception of Prince in terms of commercial success - maybe not so much.

[Edited 7/12/11 10:57am]

JoeTyler said:

TonyVanDam said:

@Tylerhippie, JoeTyler, & Vainandy........In the song, Rock The Bells, LL Cool J has the right idea about who were THE biggest stars of the 1980's at the time.

The bells are circulatin' the blood in your veins
Why are girlies on the tip, L.L.'s your name
Cut Creator's good, Cool J. is good-good
You bring the wood pecker, I'll bring the wood
The bells are wippin' and rippin' at your body and soul
Why do you like Cool J., we like rock and roll
Cause it ain't the glory days with Bruce Springsteen
I'm not a virgin so I know I'll make Madonna scream
You hated Michael and Prince all the way, ever since
If their beats were made of meat, then they would have to be mince
Rock the bells

Notice in THIS^ verse that LL never said anything about Whitney. I rest my case!

that's it, those are the four giants

and then you'd have DuranDuran, Tina, U2 and Bon Jovi...

Absolutely! And lets not forget about Kool & The Gang (JT Taylor-era) & Motley Crue.

TonyVanDam said:

JoeTyler said:

that's it, those are the four giants

and then you'd have DuranDuran, Tina, U2 and Bon Jovi...

Absolutely! And lets not forget about Kool & The Gang (JT Taylor-era) & Motley Crue.

and the original GNR and probably Run DMC...

I don't think Whitney is liked too much on this board anyways so some of these comments are biased lol. Truth of the matter is, she accomplished a shit load between 1985-2000 enough to where her name is mentioned and tossed out as a legend. Plus let's not forget, the ILTY album debuted #1 in the US and several other countries around the world too. I think she should be mentioned with the other three especially when you throw in the "eccentric" factor. I mean, Whitney became just as weird/eccentric as Michael and Prince. She has that appeal, whether good or bad, people are interested in her. If I were to rank the 80's stars on what they accomplished in the 80's alone it would be

1. Michael

2. Madonna

3. Prince

4. Whitney

If I were to rank them overall now in 2011.

1. Michael

2. Madonna

3. Whitney

4. Prince

I actually think Whitney was bigger than Madonna or at least neck and neck 1985-2000, the tides turned around "Music" and Whitney's downfall.

jsluva said:

I don't think Whitney is liked too much on this board anyways so some of these comments are biased lol. Truth of the matter is, she accomplished a shit load between 1985-2000 enough to where her name is mentioned and tossed out as a legend. Plus let's not forget, the ILTY album debuted #1 in the US and several other countries around the world too. I think she should be mentioned with the other three especially when you throw in the "eccentric" factor. I mean, Whitney became just as weird/eccentric as Michael and Prince. She has that appeal, whether good or bad, people are interested in her. If I were to rank the 80's stars on what they accomplished in the 80's alone it would be

1. Michael

2. Madonna

3. Prince

4. Whitney

If I were to rank them overall now in 2011.

1. Michael

2. Madonna

3. Whitney

4. Prince

I actually think Whitney was bigger than Madonna or at least neck and neck 1985-2000, the tides turned around "Music" and Whitney's downfall.

Unlike Michael and Prince, Whitney's eccentrics had a little extra ingredients in it. *SNIFF*

^^^

lol true

jsluva said:

If I were to rank the 80's stars on what they accomplished in the 80's alone it would be

1. Michael

2. Madonna

3. Prince

4. Whitney

yeah, sure: Springsteen, Tina, DuranDuran

JoeTyler said:

TonyVanDam said:

Absolutely! And lets not forget about Kool & The Gang (JT Taylor-era) & Motley Crue.

and the original GNR and probably Run DMC...

Sting/Police, Wham/George Michael...

TonyVanDam said:

@Tylerhippie, JoeTyler, & Vainandy........In the song, Rock The Bells, LL Cool J has the right idea about who were THE biggest stars of the 1980's at the time.

The bells are circulatin' the blood in your veins
Why are girlies on the tip, L.L.'s your name
Cut Creator's good, Cool J. is good-good
You bring the wood pecker, I'll bring the wood
The bells are wippin' and rippin' at your body and soul
Why do you like Cool J., we like rock and roll
Cause it ain't the glory days with Bruce Springsteen
I'm not a virgin so I know I'll make Madonna scream
You hated Michael and Prince all the way, ever since
If their beats were made of meat, then they would have to be mince
Rock the bells

Notice in THIS^ verse that LL never said anything about Whitney. I rest my case!

Wellllll....Whitney's debut album was still new when "Rock The Bells" was out, so she had just made the splash onto the scene.

jsluva said:

If I were to rank the 80's stars on what they accomplished in the 80's alone it would be

1. Michael

2. Madonna

3. Prince

4. Whitney

yeah, sure: Springsteen, Tina, DuranDuran

^^^

I'll give you Bruce Springsteen for the 80's(although Whitney passed him up overall) but I'm sticking to her being bigger than Tina and Duran Duran. I remember Whitney's name being called as the winner for almost every damn award she was nominated for during her 80's reign. Keep in mind, as big as Madonna, Tina and every female before Whitney, it was Whitney's second album that was the first from a female to debut #1.

Whitney Houston 1985 (14 weeks #1 on Billboard)

13 million US

Three #1 singles and a #3 single

23 million worldwide

Whitney 1987 (11 weeks #1 on Billboard)

9 million US

Four #1 singles

19 million worldwide

Bottom line, she was everwhere during mid-late 80's and I remember getting tired of her by 88 and more into Janet by then.

I'm sorry, but the attempt to negate Whitney's commercial impact during the 80s, and "place" amongst the HEAVIEST hitters of the decade is pure COMEDY. Whitney, whose debut album went 13x platinum in the US and has the biggest selling debut album for a female artist -- ever. Whitney, who from 1985 to 1988 scored 7 consecutive #1 singles...a record that still hasn't been beaten by anybody.

You're gonna sit here and tell me she doesn't stand up to Madonna, Michael and Prince...and that the "average Joe" only knows one or two of her Bodyguard songs.

Really?! GTFOH with that nonsense. Plenty, and I do mean plenty, of people remember "You Give Good Love," "How Will I Know," "I Wanna Dance With Somebody," "So Emotional," etc., etc. in amongst "I Will Always Love You."

The remark I read about how Whitney was too much of a goody-goody and that after high school no one remembers the goody two shoes is a laughable analogy by the way...simply because it isn't true. Or is at least too vague a description. Whitney was more than just the goody-goody...she was the pretty, golden, congenial prom/homecoming queen; the one who is popular with the whole school (teachers AND students), and is plenty remembered at the high school reunion.

NaQu said:

I'm sorry, but the attempt to negate Whitney's commercial impact during the 80s, and "place" amongst the HEAVIEST hitters of the decade is pure COMEDY. Whitney, whose debut album went 13x platinum in the US and has the biggest selling debut album for a female artist -- ever. Whitney, who from 1985 to 1988 scored 7 consecutive #1 singles...a record that still hasn't been beaten by anybody.

You're gonna sit here and tell me she doesn't stand up to Madonna, Michael and Prince...and that the "average Joe" only knows one or two of her Bodyguard songs.

Really?! GTFOH with that nonsense. Plenty, and I do mean plenty, of people remember "You Give Good Love," "How Will I Know," "I Wanna Dance With Somebody," "So Emotional," etc., etc. in amongst "I Will Always Love You."

The remark I read about how Whitney was too much of a goody-goody and that after high school no one remembers the goody two shoes is a laughable analogy by the way...simply because it isn't true. Or is at least too vague a description. Whitney was more than just the goody-goody...she was the pretty, golden, congenial prom/homecoming queen; the one who is popular with the whole school (teachers AND students), and is plenty remembered at the high school reunion.

Agree!!! This is why I always wondered why she was never mentioned.

Oh no, I'm not disputing Whitney was one of the biggest pop stars of all time, I'm guessing my thing is comparison.

Also can I add how sad it is for someone to have that big of a career and then have a big collapse?

[Edited 7/12/11 12:25pm]

^^^

I completely ignored the fact that some people mentioned her only being known for two Bodyguard songs. That's completely not true and laughable. Everytime I go to the barber shop i'm hearing either You Give Good Love, Saving All My Love for You or Exhale. I Wanna Dance with Somebody, How Will I Know, Greatest Love of All and many more are also well known. Hell, all you have to do is look at American Idol and X Factor to see her impact. I do believe she belongs in the big four on a commercial level, maybe not artistically but definitely overall popularity.

And I agree about the prom queen/homecoming queen comparison as well. In the High School Class of the 80's, Whitney would have been the most popular, while Madonna was the bad girl who was equally as popular.

jsluva said:

And I agree about the prom queen/homecoming queen comparison as well. In the High School Class of the 80's, Whitney would have been the most popular, while Madonna was the bad girl who was equally as popular.

The press used to call her the "Prom Queen of Soul" lmao

Plus her 1980s stuff definitely are remembered. "You Give Good Love", I always thought, was an instant classic. Same with "Saving All My Love for You".

NaQu said:

The remark I read about how Whitney was too much of a goody-goody and that after high school no one remembers the goody two shoes is a laughable analogy by the way...simply because it isn't true. Or is at least too vague a description. Whitney was more than just the goody-goody...she was the pretty, golden, congenial prom/homecoming queen; the one who is popular with the whole school (teachers AND students), and is plenty remembered at the high school reunion.

Oh she was definitely that. Remember, she was huge in pop so comparing her to remembering school, that would mean she went to a predominately white school (not her real school, the school in this comparison) and was the black girl that was the goodie two shoes, seemingly loved by all the white kids, and hung out mostly with the white kids....only durinig school hours though. Remember, as white as the "white" black girl in the school may seem to be, they are still black and still considered black to those white kids once school hours end. She was the black girl that many blacks loved as the over achiever and also the black girl that many of the other black girls accused of "wanting to be white".

Her music was also largely adult contemporary so in the high school comparison, that would definitely make her one of the teacher's pets. But remember, every year new students enter the school and there's always a new teacher's pet. Over the years, the teacher's pets become forgotten.

And with her being the goodie two shoes little black girl of the school that all the white kids loved, she definitely would be considered sort of a prom queen. But once again, remember, as white as she may seem, she's still black so she would never be THE prom queen, just the "black prom queen" to the whites, to which many of the black students would snicker behind her back and call her "the white prom queen". Over the years, the "black prom queen" becomes forgotten and people only remember "THE prom queen".

However, no one said she was forgotten. Lord knows, that little goodie two shoes' influence changed R&B music for the worst and it's still fucked up and rhythmless thanks to her so she's defininately not forgotten by no means. And yes, her sales mean she will never be forgotten either. But for her name to be mentioned in the same sentence as Prince, Madonna, or Michael when remembering the 1980s in general is rediculous. When people start talking about the 1980s, they start remember artists from the good times such as skating, clubbing, etc. Now, what Shitney Houston stuff would have been in places where people are out having a good time? It was all too damn adult contemporary for those places and none of her music was danceable so it sure as hell wasn't in the clubs and skating rinks. When folks go naming artists off the top of their head when remembering the 1980s, the first ones they think of is from the good times. The only social settings I remember hearing Shitney's music in was in the Pizza Hut when some white soccer mom played several of her songs from the juke box while her kids was having a birthday party over at the next table over.

.

.

.

[Edited 7/12/11 14:55pm]

Same reason people think about Stevie Wonder, David Bowie, and Joni Mitchell when they think about 70's music, but not Debby Boone.

errant said:

Same reason people think about Stevie Wonder, David Bowie, and Joni Mitchell when they think about 70's music, but not Debby Boone.

Exactly!!!

vainandy said:

errant said:

Same reason people think about Stevie Wonder, David Bowie, and Joni Mitchell when they think about 70's music, but not Debby Boone.

Exactly!!!

Just to torture you for that--"You-oo light up my life, you-oo give the me strength to go oo-n..." Pat Boone is giving me the evil eye!

purplethunder3121 said:

vainandy said:

Exactly!!!

Just to torture you for that--"You-oo light up my life, you-oo give the me strength to go oo-n..." Pat Boone is giving me the evil eye!

You know what's odd? Whitney covered it in '03 lol