Menes said:

Menes said:

NO, it was told to her that it was Percocet. It had a hydrocodone inscription, but it was all smoke and mirrors. Prince tried to throw off Dr. Mancha but she sent it off and had the pharmacist verify the inscription. But here is the thing, , that bayer bottle had fentanyl and lidocaine in one of the pills that were tested! We are making the connection! It was fentanyl! See reply # 9 of my post , item #3.

You see, that is why I responded in an earlier post that Moline's overdose, mirrors PP overdose, but does not equate to Dr. Schulenberg's toxicology test( which is all hydrocodone). But you have to understand the amount of hydrocodone per its metabolic rate in a (7) day period. He is regulating usage/ type/ amount and event. If you look at the comments about his moods before, during and after his show , you will see a stark change in it( according to the witnesses). Mood/moment= usage and type. This is atypical behavior.

[Edited 6/28/18 18:39pm]

atypical for most addicts? atypical for Prince? need clarification...at some point did Princes' 'normal' behaviors segue into the behaviors of any other addict you might encounter randomly?...and when do you think this metamorphosis occurred? 10, 15, 20 years ago? Also, do you think the identifiable behaviors of an addict transcend or overwhelm the personality of the one injesting said chemicals...beyond the physical/mental craving?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Thank you! It's all there and I will make the connection!

MENES: en fuego!!!

Are we up to speed?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

You see, that is why I responded in an earlier post that Moline's overdose, mirrors PP overdose, but does not equate to Dr. Schulenberg's toxicology test( which is all hydrocodone). But you have to understand the amount of hydrocodone per its metabolic rate in a (7) day period. He is regulating usage/ type/ amount and event. If you look at the comments about his moods before, during and after his show , you will see a stark change in it( according to the witnesses). Mood/moment= usage and type. This is atypical behavior.

[Edited 6/28/18 18:39pm]

atypical for most addicts? atypical for Prince? need clarification...at some point did Princes' 'normal' behaviors segue into the behaviors of any other addict you might encounter randomly?...and when do you think this metamorphosis occurred? 10, 15, 20 years ago? Also, do you think the identifiable behaviors of an addict transcend or overwhelm the personality of the one injesting said chemicals...beyond the physical/mental craving?

Great question! Atypical as in: cerebral behavioral changes a brain interprets as wants/needs when prompted by a neuro-transmitter to do so. The brain of every addict is affected by specific transmitters that carry the same neurobiological messaging. Quantifying the time it takes for the brain to succumb to such messages is not wholly dependent on time. It could happen in one day.

We've all talked a lot about the plane OD and what caused it -- we've discussed extensively that it was most likely fentanyl that caused it, same as what caused his fatal OD and delivered the same way (in the counterfeit pill).

-

But I don't think the facts we have show he knew the counterfeit pills contained fentanyl. Look, Prince was the king of denial. He himself said that if you just didn't think about a problem it went away (paraphrasing). You're assuming his thought process on this whole issue was exactly like yours (or mine or anyone else's) would be, and I think we have reason to believe that when he was faced with very challenging realities, his thought process was idiosyncratic and not always connected to obvious truths.

-

In other words, it's possible he really did convince himself/believe that the plane incident was caused by something other than a laced pill, and that it wasn't as big a deal as others around him were indicating.

i think it's possible the pills were separate because that's the way they came to him (he got them at 2 separate times and/or from 2 separate people, perhaps) and the different origins account for the different composition (for example, each batch came via the same person, but that person got each batch on a different day and they originated from a different source).

nelcp777 said:

disch said:

We've all talked a lot about the plane OD and what caused it -- we've discussed extensively that it was most likely fentanyl that caused it, same as what caused his fatal OD and delivered the same way (in the counterfeit pill).

-

But I don't think the facts we have show he knew the counterfeit pills contained fentanyl. Look, Prince was the king of denial. He himself said that if you just didn't think about a problem it went away (paraphrasing). You're assuming his thought process on this whole issue was exactly like yours (or mine or anyone else's) would be, and I think we have reason to believe that when he was faced with very challenging realities, his thought process was idiosyncratic and not always connected to obvious truths.

-

In other words, it's possible he really did convince himself/believe that the plane incident was caused by something other than a laced pill, and that it wasn't as big a deal as others around him were indicating.

The reason I think Prince knew it was fentanyl was cos the pills with fentanyl were not mixed with the pills with lidocaine. Now that can also be explained as 2 separate purchases or batches. The doc in moline was calling bullshit on Prince, but couldn’t get anything done due to Prince refusing testing or telling the truth about the pills.

Right. And the Dr. in Moline caught him in a lie because he said it was percocet and the pill they visually identified, wasn't. So she knew he was mixing meds.

nelcp777 said:

The reason I think Prince knew it was fentanyl was cos the pills with fentanyl were not mixed with the pills with lidocaine. Now that can also be explained as 2 separate purchases or batches. The doc in moline was calling bullshit on Prince, but couldn’t get anything done due to Prince refusing testing or telling the truth about the pills.

Menes said:

Menes said:

NO, it was told to her that it was Percocet. It had a hydrocodone inscription, but it was all smoke and mirrors. Prince tried to throw off Dr. Mancha but she sent it off and had the pharmacist verify the inscription. But here is the thing, , that bayer bottle had fentanyl and lidocaine in one of the pills that were tested! We are making the connection! It was fentanyl! See reply # 9 of my post , item #3.

You see, that is why I responded in an earlier post that Moline's overdose, mirrors PP overdose, but does not equate to Dr. Schulenberg's toxicology test( which is all hydrocodone). But you have to understand the amount of hydrocodone per its metabolic rate in a (7) day period. He is regulating usage/ type/ amount and event. If you look at the comments about his moods before, during and after his show , you will see a stark change in it( according to the witnesses). Mood/moment= usage and type. This is atypical behavior.

[Edited 6/28/18 18:39pm]

Not true.

Dr S test showed hydrocodone and hydromorphone.

[Edited 6/28/18 21:41pm]

he acknowledged mixing meds to Judith, yes (i.e, mixing the legit percocet with the illicit stuff)? that's what he attributed the emergency to?

PennyPurple said:

Right. And the Dr. in Moline caught him in a lie because he said it was percocet and the pill they visually identified, wasn't. So she knew he was mixing meds.

nelcp777 said:

disch said:

he acknowledged mixing meds to Judith, yes (i.e, mixing the legit percocet with the illicit stuff)? that's what he attributed the emergency to?

PennyPurple said:

Right. And the Dr. in Moline caught him in a lie because he said it was percocet and the pill they visually identified, wasn't. So she knew he was mixing meds.

Zipfile 5 page 168. Judith's testimony.

She said she talked to P about not taking anymore pills and he said he if he didn't he couldn't perform because of his hands, even though she had never heard him complain about them before. That is when he told her, he thinks he may have just mixed up the two. I won't do that anymore. (mix the 2).

He also thinks what the Medics gave him (narcan) is what started the whole thing.

When they questioned JH more, about him saying he mixed the 2 pills up, Judith said he told her he took 2 of the ones in the Bayer bottle.

Page 169 She said she started asking around and Trevor and some others had said that this happened before, a few years ago.

Kirk told JH that he has a feeling that he's been hiding this and KJ, JH started putting things together like his mood swings and such.

She also talks about KJ at the memorial service saying, that it all makes sense now, that's why P was asking them if KJ and JH would still do the shows if P wasn't there.

She told Phaedra about Moline and Phaedra said he was just sleeping.

P asked if KJ would be around and KJ said he was taking a vacation and going on cruise.

Judith said Prince would use the elevator all the time.

And let's not forget SheilaE told JH that she couldn't say anything and if she needed a lawyer they would lawyer her up.

I would guess Judith didn't know anything about the drug use, until Moline.

[Edited 6/29/18 4:34am]

Zipfile 4; starting with picture 578, shows a vitamin C bottle with white pills inside, then shows pictures of a Watson 853 pill, does this mean that the Vitamin C bottle had Watson's in them too?

PennyPurple said:

To me, the pills that were marked 853 that was just lidocaine, seems to be that he got took from the dealer. Could it be he actually wasn't trying to withdraw, he was just taking the lidocaine and it wasn't doing anything?

Also, what script did Dr. S give P that was lidocaine?

Are you saying that he had to have several batches of the fentanyl? So it just wasn't a 1 time buy?

Menes said:

The tangled web of hydrocodone pills vs. the fentanyl +lidocaine pills.

On 06-03-16 the following is a summary of testing done on the pills.

1. Item #37 BCA item # 8 ( the contents of the aleve bottle on the night stand) contains 21.5 white oblong pills marked watson 853 pills were tested and found to contain lidocaine , not hydrocodone as marked. They were made to look like a hydrocodone pill. Please take note that the 853's are not even 853's in this batch.

One should really inquire and investigate how/why lidocaine is used for opiate withdrawals. Please also remember that this is not the first time that we have read of lidocaine in the reports. Dr. Schulenberg prescribed lidocaine for Prince to treat his withdrawals, but PRINCE WAS ALREADY AWARE OF USING LIDOCAINE TO TREAT WITHDRAWALS! This is not a widely known fact by the masses. It is still deemed "experimental" by the masses.


Oh to be a fly on the wall and see the astonished look on Prince's face when he pretended to hear about lidocaine for the first time from his treating physician. He must have done everything in his power to keep from busting out laughing . As stated, this is a very smart man.

2. Item#38 BCA #9; (The prescription bottle in the suitcase with Kirk's name on it). One of the ten pills contained oxycodone. It does not say if the pill was marked as: Waston 853. My opinion is that this could be another opiate.

3. Item #40 BCA #11 ( the contents of the Bayer bottle found on nightstand near Prince's bed) contains 64.5 white oblong pills marked Watson 853. Test conducted on one of the pills showed fentanyl and lidocaine , not hydrocodone as marked. In my opinion this is a fentanyl/lidocaine batch(1).

4. Item #41 BCa #12 ( contents of tissue paper from jewelry box) contained 15 white oblong pills marked watson 853. test was conducted on one of the pi.ls which showed the pill contained fentanyl and lidocaine).In my opinion this is another fenatnyl /lidocaine batch. (2)

5. Item 3 63 BCA item #13 ( contents at bottom of the black bag which was observed on Prince's bed on 4-21, and was seen on the hospital surveillance video in Moline overdose ) contained one yellow pill and was tested and contained hydrocodone. There is no marking to identify this pill.

Item #112 BCA# item #14 (contents of target brand vitamin c bottle located in suitcase found in Prince's bedroom. Contents of the bottle contained (49) whole and 3 half white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills were tested which showed the pill contained fentanyl and lidocaine and was another synthetic pill that looked like hydrocodone but wasn't. This is a third fentanyl /lidocaine batch(3)

6. Item # 113 BCA item # 15 (contents of prescription bottle in KJ's name and marked Acetaminophen -COD3 and prescribed by Dr. Boo. Pill was tested and showed it contained only Codeine.

7. Item # 114 BCA Item #16( contents of another vitamin C bottle found in duffle bag in Prince's dressing room) contained (54) white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills tested showed just lidocaine and not hydrocodone as marked. Another pill was tested and showed hydrocodone and nothing else , and a third pill was tested that showed just lidocaine and nothing else, but marked to look like a hydrocodone pill. This bottle is the hydrocodone /lidocaine batch. No fentanyl .

Item # 115 BCA Item #17 (contents of the CVS pharmacy bottle in black suit case in Prince's bedroom) contained (27) white oblong pills . One of the pills was tested which showed the pill fentanyl and lidocaine . My opinion is that this is a fentanyl/lidocaine batch(4).

Items #116,117 along with nasal spray and visine bottle found in Princes bedroom were tested and shown not to contain any controlled substances.

Page 152 # 172 -174.

* Of note, Scientist Sam Godlstarnd examined each pill individually both in apperance and size and found either the contents of the container were the same or some of the pills appeared different. He stated that if the contents of the bottle apperaed different in some way then those indivudal pills were also tested.

See the pattern yet?

[Edited 6/28/18 16:06pm]

Ah, you're on the right path as it relates to lidocaine and withdrawal. Your key clue is understanding the relationship between an agonist( fentanyl ) and an antagonist /cutting agent such as (lidocaine). In short, if you want to dose with say, fentanyl , but reduce the withdrawal effect of the drug thereafter, an antagonist such as lidocaine, can be used in order to reduce the symptoms of withdrawals. See if you can locate any other antagonist in the batches.

Conversely, you can use other cutting agents(antagonist) such as Buprenorphine which may in fact still function as a partial agonist(opiate) because of how it may bind to a opiate rceptor in the brain. It is a tricky proposition to find the right agonist/antagonist relationship. So why is all of this important?

Look at the relational mix that is presented, and in what quantity is it present in the mix. This is not an arbitrary random pick up of drugs off of the street. This is not an internet order. This is calculated. This type of calculation requires someone with enough experience, education, resources and research to determine what combination of an agonist would best be paired with an antagonist in order to keep a high, yet, not suffer the excess consequences of withdrawals when the opiate wears off. This is how a very seasoned addict is able to function and not appear to be out of control .

Now, if you dont have a lab in your house( complete with your own chemist/doctor), you have to figure out how to tinker with the mix of the combination in order to get it just right for you. You wont tinker with this with someone selling "junk" on the street. We are way pass that level. We can narrow this down...( lidocaine ) is key as it is not widely know on the 'street'.

Hope this helps.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

To me, the pills that were marked 853 that was just lidocaine, seems to be that he got took from the dealer. Could it be he actually wasn't trying to withdraw, he was just taking the lidocaine and it wasn't doing anything?

Also, what script did Dr. S give P that was lidocaine?

Are you saying that he had to have several batches of the fentanyl? So it just wasn't a 1 time buy?

Ah, you're on the right path as it relates to lidocaine and withdrawal. Your key clue is understanding the relationship between an agonist( fentanyl ) and an antagonist /cutting agent such as (lidocaine). In short, if you want to dose with say, fentanyl , but reduce the withdrawal effect of the drug thereafter, an antagonist such as lidocaine, can be used in order to reduce the symptoms of withdrawals. See if you can locate any other antagonist in the batches.

Conversely, you can use other cutting agents(antagonist) such as Buprenorphine which may in fact still function as a partial agonist(opiate) because of how it may bind to a opiate rceptor in the brain. It is a tricky proposition to find the right agonist/antagonist relationship. So why is all of this important?

Look at the relational mix that is presented, and in what quantity is it present in the mix. This is not an arbitrary random pick up of drugs off of the street. This is not an internet order. This is calculated. This type of calculation requires someone with enough experience, education, resources and research to determine what combination of an agonist would best be paired with an antagonist in order to keep a high, yet, not suffer the excess consequences of withdrawals when the opiate wears off. This is how a very seasoned addict is able to function and not appear to be out of control .

Now, if you dont have a lab in your house( complete with your own chemist/doctor), you have to figure out how to tinker with the mix of the combination in order to get it just right for you. You wont tinker with this with someone selling "junk" on the street. We are way pass that level. We can narrow this down...( lidocaine ) is key as it is not widely know on the 'street'.

Hope this helps.

Ohh, I see that makes sense. I'll be damn. The 'chemist' must've known what he was doing. Who would've known that shit?

Also, do you recall Watson's 853 being found in Vit. C bottles?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

To me, the pills that were marked 853 that was just lidocaine, seems to be that he got took from the dealer. Could it be he actually wasn't trying to withdraw, he was just taking the lidocaine and it wasn't doing anything?

Also, what script did Dr. S give P that was lidocaine?

Are you saying that he had to have several batches of the fentanyl? So it just wasn't a 1 time buy?

Ah, you're on the right path as it relates to lidocaine and withdrawal. Your key clue is understanding the relationship between an agonist( fentanyl ) and an antagonist /cutting agent such as (lidocaine). In short, if you want to dose with say, fentanyl , but reduce the withdrawal effect of the drug thereafter, an antagonist such as lidocaine, can be used in order to reduce the symptoms of withdrawals. See if you can locate any other antagonist in the batches.

Conversely, you can use other cutting agents(antagonist) such as Buprenorphine which may in fact still function as a partial agonist(opiate) because of how it may bind to a opiate rceptor in the brain. It is a tricky proposition to find the right agonist/antagonist relationship. So why is all of this important?

Look at the relational mix that is presented, and in what quantity is it present in the mix. This is not an arbitrary random pick up of drugs off of the street. This is not an internet order. This is calculated. This type of calculation requires someone with enough experience, education, resources and research to determine what combination of an agonist would best be paired with an antagonist in order to keep a high, yet, not suffer the excess consequences of withdrawals when the opiate wears off. This is how a very seasoned addict is able to function and not appear to be out of control .

Now, if you dont have a lab in your house( complete with your own chemist/doctor), you have to figure out how to tinker with the mix of the combination in order to get it just right for you. You wont tinker with this with someone selling "junk" on the street. We are way pass that level. We can narrow this down...( lidocaine ) is key as it is not widely know on the 'street'.

Hope this helps.

Yup. Precioux honed in like a laser on the lidocaine within weeks of his death...I also posted way back that it was inconceivable to me that a man who had his underpants custom made wouldn't have his drugs made to order...I never thought he or his employees went to the street to cop for him.

[Edited 6/29/18 20:04pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Ah, you're on the right path as it relates to lidocaine and withdrawal. Your key clue is understanding the relationship between an agonist( fentanyl ) and an antagonist /cutting agent such as (lidocaine). In short, if you want to dose with say, fentanyl , but reduce the withdrawal effect of the drug thereafter, an antagonist such as lidocaine, can be used in order to reduce the symptoms of withdrawals. See if you can locate any other antagonist in the batches.

Conversely, you can use other cutting agents(antagonist) such as Buprenorphine which may in fact still function as a partial agonist(opiate) because of how it may bind to a opiate rceptor in the brain. It is a tricky proposition to find the right agonist/antagonist relationship. So why is all of this important?

Look at the relational mix that is presented, and in what quantity is it present in the mix. This is not an arbitrary random pick up of drugs off of the street. This is not an internet order. This is calculated. This type of calculation requires someone with enough experience, education, resources and research to determine what combination of an agonist would best be paired with an antagonist in order to keep a high, yet, not suffer the excess consequences of withdrawals when the opiate wears off. This is how a very seasoned addict is able to function and not appear to be out of control .

Now, if you dont have a lab in your house( complete with your own chemist/doctor), you have to figure out how to tinker with the mix of the combination in order to get it just right for you. You wont tinker with this with someone selling "junk" on the street. We are way pass that level. We can narrow this down...( lidocaine ) is key as it is not widely know on the 'street'.

Hope this helps.

Yup. Precioux honed in like a laser on the lidocaine within weeks of his death...I also posted way back that it was inconceivable to me that a man who had his underpants custom made wouldn't have his drugs made to order...I never thought he or his employees went to the street to cop for him.

[Edited 6/29/18 20:04pm]

Yes, she did. I always wondered why the lidocaine. I just thought it was a cheap drug to cut in.

That would explain the pills they found with only lidocaine.

Menes said:

Menes said:

To be continued. Good night.

The tangled web of hydrocodone pills vs. the fentanyl +lidocaine pills.

On 06-03-16 the following is a summary of testing done on the pills.

1. Item #37 BCA item # 8 ( the contents of the aleve bottle on the night stand) contains 21.5 white oblong pills marked watson 853 pills were tested and found to contain lidocaine , not hydrocodone as marked. They were made to look like a hydrocodone pill. Please take note that the 853's are not even 853's in this batch.

One should really inquire and investigate how/why lidocaine is used for opiate withdrawals. Please also remember that this is not the first time that we have read of lidocaine in the reports. Dr. Schulenberg prescribed lidocaine for Prince to treat his withdrawals, but PRINCE WAS ALREADY AWARE OF USING LIDOCAINE TO TREAT WITHDRAWALS! This is not a widely known fact by the masses. It is still deemed "experimental" by the masses.


Oh to be a fly on the wall and see the astonished look on Prince's face when he pretended to hear about lidocaine for the first time from his treating physician. He must have done everything in his power to keep from busting out laughing . As stated, this is a very smart man.

2. Item#38 BCA #9; (The prescription bottle in the suitcase with Kirk's name on it). One of the ten pills contained oxycodone. It does not say if the pill was marked as: Waston 853. My opinion is that this could be another opiate.

3. Item #40 BCA #11 ( the contents of the Bayer bottle found on nightstand near Prince's bed) contains 64.5 white oblong pills marked Watson 853. Test conducted on one of the pills showed fentanyl and lidocaine , not hydrocodone as marked. In my opinion this is a fentanyl/lidocaine batch(1).

4. Item #41 BCa #12 ( contents of tissue paper from jewelry box) contained 15 white oblong pills marked watson 853. test was conducted on one of the pi.ls which showed the pill contained fentanyl and lidocaine).In my opinion this is another fenatnyl /lidocaine batch. (2)

5. Item 3 63 BCA item #13 ( contents at bottom of the black bag which was observed on Prince's bed on 4-21, and was seen on the hospital surveillance video in Moline overdose ) contained one yellow pill and was tested and contained hydrocodone. There is no marking to identify this pill.

Item #112 BCA# item #14 (contents of target brand vitamin c bottle located in suitcase found in Prince's bedroom. Contents of the bottle contained (49) whole and 3 half white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills were tested which showed the pill contained fentanyl and lidocaine and was another synthetic pill that looked like hydrocodone but wasn't. This is a third fentanyl /lidocaine batch(3)

6. Item # 113 BCA item # 15 (contents of prescription bottle in KJ's name and marked Acetaminophen -COD3 and prescribed by Dr. Boo. Pill was tested and showed it contained only Codeine.

7. Item # 114 BCA Item #16( contents of another vitamin C bottle found in duffle bag in Prince's dressing room) contained (54) white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills tested showed just lidocaine and not hydrocodone as marked. Another pill was tested and showed hydrocodone and nothing else , and a third pill was tested that showed just lidocaine and nothing else, but marked to look like a hydrocodone pill. This bottle is the hydrocodone /lidocaine batch. No fentanyl .

Item # 115 BCA Item #17 (contents of the CVS pharmacy bottle in black suit case in Prince's bedroom) contained (27) white oblong pills . One of the pills was tested which showed the pill fentanyl and lidocaine . My opinion is that this is a fentanyl/lidocaine batch(4).

Items #116,117 along with nasal spray and visine bottle found in Princes bedroom were tested and shown not to contain any controlled substances.

Page 152 # 172 -174.

* Of note, Scientist Sam Godlstarnd examined each pill individually both in apperance and size and found either the contents of the container were the same or some of the pills appeared different. He stated that if the contents of the bottle apperaed different in some way then those indivudal pills were also tested.

See the pattern yet?

[Edited 6/28/18 16:06pm]

Oh Crap, I see #7 with the Vit. C. bottle. DUH Penny!

PennyPurple said:

Ohh, I see that makes sense. I'll be damn. The 'chemist' must've known what he was doing. Who would've known that shit?

Also, do you recall Watson's 853 being found in Vit. C bottles?

Yes, when the DEA went back in they found Vitamin C bottles.

I think there were 3 bottles.

2 bottles with Fent/Lido

1 bottle with Lido

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Ah, you're on the right path as it relates to lidocaine and withdrawal. Your key clue is understanding the relationship between an agonist( fentanyl ) and an antagonist /cutting agent such as (lidocaine). In short, if you want to dose with say, fentanyl , but reduce the withdrawal effect of the drug thereafter, an antagonist such as lidocaine, can be used in order to reduce the symptoms of withdrawals. See if you can locate any other antagonist in the batches.

Conversely, you can use other cutting agents(antagonist) such as Buprenorphine which may in fact still function as a partial agonist(opiate) because of how it may bind to a opiate rceptor in the brain. It is a tricky proposition to find the right agonist/antagonist relationship. So why is all of this important?

Look at the relational mix that is presented, and in what quantity is it present in the mix. This is not an arbitrary random pick up of drugs off of the street. This is not an internet order. This is calculated. This type of calculation requires someone with enough experience, education, resources and research to determine what combination of an agonist would best be paired with an antagonist in order to keep a high, yet, not suffer the excess consequences of withdrawals when the opiate wears off. This is how a very seasoned addict is able to function and not appear to be out of control .

Now, if you dont have a lab in your house( complete with your own chemist/doctor), you have to figure out how to tinker with the mix of the combination in order to get it just right for you. You wont tinker with this with someone selling "junk" on the street. We are way pass that level. We can narrow this down...( lidocaine ) is key as it is not widely know on the 'street'.

Hope this helps.

Ohh, I see that makes sense. I'll be damn. The 'chemist' must've known what he was doing. Who would've known that shit?

Also, do you recall Watson's 853 being found in Vit. C bottles?

Yes. The 'chemist' has to have a vast array of knowledge in order to procure the right mix for said purchase order. The purchaser must also be able to relay what is needed to complete said purchase.

As to the vitamin C bottle(s) . They are two according to what I have read. Item #112 BCA#14 Target brand) contained 49 whole and 3 half white oblong pills stamped watson 853. However , the pills were tested which showed the pills contained FENTANYL AND LIDOCAINE .

The second vitamin c bottle: Item # 114 BCa item #16 (duffle bag) contained 54 white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills tested showed lidocaine and not hydrocodone as marked. Another pills showed hydrocodone and nothing else. A third pill showed lidcoaine and nothing else.

* Notice that none of the pills had hydrocodone and lidocaine in it...

Why is that? Hydrocodone withdrawals are significantly different from those from fentanyl even though the half life is similar( Half of whatever you've taken). It may take 6-12 hours for withdrawals symptoms to occur. But it is easier to stem the tide of hydrocodone withdrawals with a separate lidocaine pill as opposed to taking hydrocodone+lidocaine together. You will not be able maintain the high for as long as the half life if both are taken simultaneously. With fentanyl, you have to do the mix immediately because of the intensity of the withdrawals when they hit.

* I did the calculation (ions ago) for how much hydrocodone he may have ingested before seeing Dr. Schulenberg.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Ohh, I see that makes sense. I'll be damn. The 'chemist' must've known what he was doing. Who would've known that shit?

Also, do you recall Watson's 853 being found in Vit. C bottles?

Yes. The 'chemist' has to have a vast array of knowledge in order to procure the right mix for said purchase order. The purchaser must also be able to relay what is needed to complete said purchase.

As to the vitamin C bottle(s) . They are two according to what I have read. Item #112 BCA#14 Target brand) contained 49 whole and 3 half white oblong pills stamped watson 853. However , the pills were tested which showed the pills contained FENTANYL AND LIDOCAINE .

The second vitamin c bottle: Item # 114 BCa item #16 (duffle bag) contained 54 white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills tested showed lidocaine and not hydrocodone as marked. Another pills showed hydrocodone and nothing else. A third pill showed lidcoaine and nothing else.

* Notice that none of the pills had hydrocodone and lidocaine in it...

Why is that? Hydrocodone withdrawals are significantly different from those from fentanyl even though the half life is similar( Half of whatever you've taken). It may take 6-12 hours for withdrawals symptoms to occur. But it is easier to stem the tide of hydrocodone withdrawals with a separate lidocaine pill as opposed to taking hydrocodone+lidocaine together. You will not be able maintain the high for as long as the half life if both are taken simultaneously. With fentanyl, you have to do the mix immediately because of the intensity of the withdrawals when they hit.

* I did the calculation (ions ago) for how much hydrocodone he may have ingested before seeing Dr. Schulenberg.

Let's just keep in mind a few things..

That Prince was not in unbearable pain to speak of as recorded by Dr. Schulenberg.

There are no significant heatlh/terminal issues.

He is still dosing/feeding (albeit) more selectively for (7) days after Moline .

That Prince had hydrocodone in his system when visiting Dr.Schulenberg. Even if he had hydrocodone in his system in Moline, it would have already metabolized. This tells me that this is a recent feeding.

The pills that he is dosing from are located @ PP after the Moline incident.

The pills are separated and batched according to type and usage.

The Hydrocodone pills do not contain an antagonist( an anti withdrawal agent) .

The fentanyl batches contains and anti withdrawal agent, specifically, lidocaine. There are no pure fentanyl pills found(?). There are pills that contain only lidocaine/hydrcodone.

Each pill is accounted for/ tested by a scientist . Results show that the contents and shape are generally consistent in each batch.

That lidcoaine is not generally used as a cutting agent by "street pharma" standards.

That Prince understood that he was lying to both doctors when prompted for a response about what he was taking.

That Prince was "mixing" and thereby regulating usage.

That Prince was already going thru withdrawals while driving home with Kirk. (this quantifies when he may have last fed on the hydro).

That Prince opted to take fentanyl in large doses instead of more hydrocodone that night.

Menes said:

Menes said:

Yes. The 'chemist' has to have a vast array of knowledge in order to procure the right mix for said purchase order. The purchaser must also be able to relay what is needed to complete said purchase.

As to the vitamin C bottle(s) . They are two according to what I have read. Item #112 BCA#14 Target brand) contained 49 whole and 3 half white oblong pills stamped watson 853. However , the pills were tested which showed the pills contained FENTANYL AND LIDOCAINE .

The second vitamin c bottle: Item # 114 BCa item #16 (duffle bag) contained 54 white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills tested showed lidocaine and not hydrocodone as marked. Another pills showed hydrocodone and nothing else. A third pill showed lidcoaine and nothing else.

* Notice that none of the pills had hydrocodone and lidocaine in it...

Why is that? Hydrocodone withdrawals are significantly different from those from fentanyl even though the half life is similar( Half of whatever you've taken). It may take 6-12 hours for withdrawals symptoms to occur. But it is easier to stem the tide of hydrocodone withdrawals with a separate lidocaine pill as opposed to taking hydrocodone+lidocaine together. You will not be able maintain the high for as long as the half life if both are taken simultaneously. With fentanyl, you have to do the mix immediately because of the intensity of the withdrawals when they hit.

* I did the calculation (ions ago) for how much hydrocodone he may have ingested before seeing Dr. Schulenberg.

Let's just keep in mind a few things..

That Prince was not in unbearable pain to speak of as recorded by Dr. Schulenberg.

There are no significant heatlh/terminal issues.

He is still dosing/feeding (albeit) more selectively for (7) days after Moline .

That Prince had hydrocodone in his system when visiting Dr.Schulenberg. Even if he had hydrocodone in his system in Moline, it would have already metabolized. This tells me that this is a recent feeding.

The pills that he is dosing from are located @ PP after the Moline incident.

The pills are separated and batched according to type and usage.

The Hydrocodone pills do not contain an antagonist( an anti withdrawal agent) .

The fentanyl batches contains and anti withdrawal agent, specifically, lidocaine. There are no pure fentanyl pills found(?). There are pills that contain only lidocaine/hydrcodone.

Each pill is accounted for/ tested by a scientist . Results show that the contents and shape are generally consistent in each batch.

That lidcoaine is not generally used as a cutting agent by "street pharma" standards.

That Prince understood that he was lying to both doctors when prompted for a response about what he was taking.

That Prince was "mixing" and thereby regulating usage.

That Prince was already going thru withdrawals while driving home with Kirk. (this quantifies when he may have last fed on the hydro).

That Prince opted to take fentanyl in large doses instead of more hydrocodone that night.

No wonder LE couldn't find anything like it. They were custom made.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Let's just keep in mind a few things..

That Prince was not in unbearable pain to speak of as recorded by Dr. Schulenberg.

There are no significant heatlh/terminal issues.

He is still dosing/feeding (albeit) more selectively for (7) days after Moline .

That Prince had hydrocodone in his system when visiting Dr.Schulenberg. Even if he had hydrocodone in his system in Moline, it would have already metabolized. This tells me that this is a recent feeding.

The pills that he is dosing from are located @ PP after the Moline incident.

The pills are separated and batched according to type and usage.

The Hydrocodone pills do not contain an antagonist( an anti withdrawal agent) .

The fentanyl batches contains and anti withdrawal agent, specifically, lidocaine. There are no pure fentanyl pills found(?). There are pills that contain only lidocaine/hydrcodone.

Each pill is accounted for/ tested by a scientist . Results show that the contents and shape are generally consistent in each batch.

That lidcoaine is not generally used as a cutting agent by "street pharma" standards.

That Prince understood that he was lying to both doctors when prompted for a response about what he was taking.

That Prince was "mixing" and thereby regulating usage.

That Prince was already going thru withdrawals while driving home with Kirk. (this quantifies when he may have last fed on the hydro).

That Prince opted to take fentanyl in large doses instead of more hydrocodone that night.

No wonder LE couldn't find anything like it. They were custom made.

YES, he knew exactly what he was doing...AND re the bolded above: this was playing out in a somewhat 'pubic' manner...Dr. S, Kirk, strangers coming to PP in the morning....emotional break; physical and mental exhaustion, physical weakness and discomfort which would only get worse, humiliation, disordered thinking, loss of control, the belief that there was no way out.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

No wonder LE couldn't find anything like it. They were custom made.

YES, he knew exactly what he was doing...AND re the bolded above: this was playing out in a somewhat 'pubic' manner...Dr. S, Kirk, strangers coming to PP in the morning....emotional break; physical and mental exhaustion, physical weakness and discomfort which would only get worse, humiliation, disordered thinking, loss of control, the belief that there was no way out.

Such a waste. And not a single soul who he could share his fears with.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

No wonder LE couldn't find anything like it. They were custom made.

YES, he knew exactly what he was doing...AND re the bolded above: this was playing out in a somewhat 'pubic' manner...Dr. S, Kirk, strangers coming to PP in the morning....emotional break; physical and mental exhaustion, physical weakness and discomfort which would only get worse, humiliation, disordered thinking, loss of control, the belief that there was no way out.

You ladies are thinking! We know exactly why the investigators mentioned 853's so boldly in the report (Which they never mention the actual pill when an overdose has occurred for fear of a mad rush to manufacture/procure more of them in large quantities. THEY WERE NOT 853's . Now, why would said 'chemist ' stamp the pills as such?

* hint: when were these manufactured?

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

YES, he knew exactly what he was doing...AND re the bolded above: this was playing out in a somewhat 'pubic' manner...Dr. S, Kirk, strangers coming to PP in the morning....emotional break; physical and mental exhaustion, physical weakness and discomfort which would only get worse, humiliation, disordered thinking, loss of control, the belief that there was no way out.

You ladies are thinking! We know exactly why the investigators mentioned 853's so boldly in the report (Which they never mention the actual pill when an overdose has occurred for fear of a mad rush to manufacture/procure more of them in large quantities. THEY WERE NOT 853's . Now, why would said 'chemist ' stamp the pills as such?

* hint: when were these manufactured?

Because if they were found, they could be easily identifed with the naked eye?

Watson 853 is generic of Vicodin and Norco.

Sad when you google Watson 853 and Prince is the 3rd item down.

Menes said:

Menes said:

Yes. The 'chemist' has to have a vast array of knowledge in order to procure the right mix for said purchase order. The purchaser must also be able to relay what is needed to complete said purchase.

As to the vitamin C bottle(s) . They are two according to what I have read. Item #112 BCA#14 Target brand) contained 49 whole and 3 half white oblong pills stamped watson 853. However , the pills were tested which showed the pills contained FENTANYL AND LIDOCAINE .

The second vitamin c bottle: Item # 114 BCa item #16 (duffle bag) contained 54 white oblong pills stamped watson 853. One of the pills tested showed lidocaine and not hydrocodone as marked. Another pills showed hydrocodone and nothing else. A third pill showed lidcoaine and nothing else.

* Notice that none of the pills had hydrocodone and lidocaine in it...

Why is that? Hydrocodone withdrawals are significantly different from those from fentanyl even though the half life is similar( Half of whatever you've taken). It may take 6-12 hours for withdrawals symptoms to occur. But it is easier to stem the tide of hydrocodone withdrawals with a separate lidocaine pill as opposed to taking hydrocodone+lidocaine together. You will not be able maintain the high for as long as the half life if both are taken simultaneously. With fentanyl, you have to do the mix immediately because of the intensity of the withdrawals when they hit.

* I did the calculation (ions ago) for how much hydrocodone he may have ingested before seeing Dr. Schulenberg.

Let's just keep in mind a few things..

That Prince was not in unbearable pain to speak of as recorded by Dr. Schulenberg.

There are no significant heatlh/terminal issues.

He is still dosing/feeding (albeit) more selectively for (7) days after Moline .

That Prince had hydrocodone in his system when visiting Dr.Schulenberg. Even if he had hydrocodone in his system in Moline, it would have already metabolized. This tells me that this is a recent feeding.

The pills that he is dosing from are located @ PP after the Moline incident.

The pills are separated and batched according to type and usage.

The Hydrocodone pills do not contain an antagonist( an anti withdrawal agent) .

The fentanyl batches contains and anti withdrawal agent, specifically, lidocaine. There are no pure fentanyl pills found(?). There are pills that contain only lidocaine/hydrcodone.

Each pill is accounted for/ tested by a scientist . Results show that the contents and shape are generally consistent in each batch.

That lidcoaine is not generally used as a cutting agent by "street pharma" standards.

That Prince understood that he was lying to both doctors when prompted for a response about what he was taking.

That Prince was "mixing" and thereby regulating usage.

That Prince was already going thru withdrawals while driving home with Kirk. (this quantifies when he may have last fed on the hydro).

That Prince opted to take fentanyl in large doses instead of more hydrocodone that night.

Lidocaine is a local anesthetic. It basically stops nerves from sending pain signals to the brain. It does not have anything to do with the receptors that opioids attach themselves to. It is also not used for taking the edge off withdrawals from opioids.

Lidocaine is neither an antagonist or agonist in this respect.

The most probable reason that Lidocaine is present in any street drug is because it is cheap and makes for a good dilutant or adulterant. It's most commonly cut into cocaine and heroin. Because of it's anesthetic properties, when cocaine users rub it on their gums it enhances the numbness that the cocaine also produces. this gives the impression that the user is buying top quality charly when in fact it is cut to shit with Lidocaine that does not produce any real high of any sort.

In the case of these pills that Prince had, it most certainly was nothing more than a cheap cutting agent. Lidocaine does not actually come in pill form in its legal guise. There is no purpose in ingesting it. If anything it can fuck with your heart if you take too much. For the properties of Lidocaine to have any effect on the user, it is usually injected directly into the area of pain or sprayed on the skin. Its effects are local and is not used for widespread or general pain.

Lidocaine is also not listed as an illigal substance with the World Anti Doping Agency.

Wherever you are going with the Menes, this is the wrong track and is sending you down a rabbit hole that does not need investigating.

Edit to add: An antagonist is not an anti withdrawal agent. An antaginist attaches itself to the opioid receptors and blocks the receptor which stops the body from responding to opioids. They actually induce withdrawals. but as I said above, Lidocaine is not one of these.

[Edited 6/30/18 3:44am]

Rebeljuice said:

Menes said:

Let's just keep in mind a few things..

That Prince was not in unbearable pain to speak of as recorded by Dr. Schulenberg.

There are no significant heatlh/terminal issues.

He is still dosing/feeding (albeit) more selectively for (7) days after Moline .

That Prince had hydrocodone in his system when visiting Dr.Schulenberg. Even if he had hydrocodone in his system in Moline, it would have already metabolized. This tells me that this is a recent feeding.

The pills that he is dosing from are located @ PP after the Moline incident.

The pills are separated and batched according to type and usage.

The Hydrocodone pills do not contain an antagonist( an anti withdrawal agent) .

The fentanyl batches contains and anti withdrawal agent, specifically, lidocaine. There are no pure fentanyl pills found(?). There are pills that contain only lidocaine/hydrcodone.

Each pill is accounted for/ tested by a scientist . Results show that the contents and shape are generally consistent in each batch.

That lidcoaine is not generally used as a cutting agent by "street pharma" standards.

That Prince understood that he was lying to both doctors when prompted for a response about what he was taking.

That Prince was "mixing" and thereby regulating usage.

That Prince was already going thru withdrawals while driving home with Kirk. (this quantifies when he may have last fed on the hydro).

That Prince opted to take fentanyl in large doses instead of more hydrocodone that night.

Lidocaine is a local anesthetic. It basically stops nerves from sending pain signals to the brain. It does not have anything to do with the receptors that opioids attach themselves to. It is also not used for taking the edge off withdrawals from opioids.

Lidocaine is neither an antagonist or agonist in this respect.

The most probable reason that Lidocaine is present in any street drug is because it is cheap and makes for a good dilutant or adulterant. It's most commonly cut into cocaine and heroin. Because of it's anesthetic properties, when cocaine users rub it on their gums it enhances the numbness that the cocaine also produces. this gives the impression that the user is buying top quality charly when in fact it is cut to shit with Lidocaine that does not produce any real high of any sort.

In the case of these pills that Prince had, it most certainly was nothing more than a cheap cutting agent. Lidocaine does not actually come in pill form in its legal guise. There is no purpose in ingesting it. If anything it can fuck with your heart if you take too much. For the properties of Lidocaine to have any effect on the user, it is usually injected directly into the area of pain or sprayed on the skin. Its effects are local and is not used for widespread or general pain.

Lidocaine is also not listed as an illigal substance with the World Anti Doping Agency.

Wherever you are going with the Menes, this is the wrong track and is sending you down a rabbit hole that does not need investigating.

Edit to add: An antagonist is not an anti withdrawal agent. An antaginist attaches itself to the opioid receptors and blocks the receptor which stops the body from responding to opioids. They actually induce withdrawals. but as I said above, Lidocaine is not one of these.

[Edited 6/30/18 3:44am]

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11177126

PennyPurple said:

Zipfile 4; starting with picture 578, shows a vitamin C bottle with white pills inside, then shows pictures of a Watson 853 pill, does this mean that the Vitamin C bottle had Watson's in them too?

Yes and if I recall, these tested positive for fentanyl

rednblue said:

Rebeljuice said:

Lidocaine is a local anesthetic. It basically stops nerves from sending pain signals to the brain. It does not have anything to do with the receptors that opioids attach themselves to. It is also not used for taking the edge off withdrawals from opioids.

Lidocaine is neither an antagonist or agonist in this respect.

The most probable reason that Lidocaine is present in any street drug is because it is cheap and makes for a good dilutant or adulterant. It's most commonly cut into cocaine and heroin. Because of it's anesthetic properties, when cocaine users rub it on their gums it enhances the numbness that the cocaine also produces. this gives the impression that the user is buying top quality charly when in fact it is cut to shit with Lidocaine that does not produce any real high of any sort.

In the case of these pills that Prince had, it most certainly was nothing more than a cheap cutting agent. Lidocaine does not actually come in pill form in its legal guise. There is no purpose in ingesting it. If anything it can fuck with your heart if you take too much. For the properties of Lidocaine to have any effect on the user, it is usually injected directly into the area of pain or sprayed on the skin. Its effects are local and is not used for widespread or general pain.

Lidocaine is also not listed as an illigal substance with the World Anti Doping Agency.

Wherever you are going with the Menes, this is the wrong track and is sending you down a rabbit hole that does not need investigating.

Edit to add: An antagonist is not an anti withdrawal agent. An antaginist attaches itself to the opioid receptors and blocks the receptor which stops the body from responding to opioids. They actually induce withdrawals. but as I said above, Lidocaine is not one of these.

[Edited 6/30/18 3:44am]

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11177126

any thoughts on why a guy with unlimited financial resources and contacts around the world didn't have pharmaceutical grade drugs on hand? this has always puzzled me...He could have had a physician on his payroll, like MJ or Elvis, to attend to his 'hip pain'...why did he opt for street drugs? He was so smart, it doesn't make sense to me...

Rebeljuice said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

rednblue said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11177126

any thoughts on why a guy with unlimited financial resources and contacts around the world didn't have pharmaceutical grade drugs on hand? this has always puzzled me...He could have had a physician on his payroll, like MJ or Elvis, to attend to his 'hip pain'...why did he opt for street drugs? He was so smart, it doesn't make sense to me...

Shortly after he died, I also wondered why he used street drugs for the same reason you indicated, but then the longer I thought about this, it made sense in how P. seemed to handle his personal life that as much as possible must remain private. I think he couldn’t be sure he could trust any doctor or the doctor’s staff to keep this private.

I am not saying I feel that this thought process makes sense to me because I don’t think the “crap shoot” of street drugs is acceptable especially when you have the means to pay for pharmaceutical grade drugs.