Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

And?

and maybe we're supposed to think that getting bounced to a motel by your 'boyfriend' when you're visiting him is an example of him being caring and concerned that you might be turned off by the condition of his private living quarters and he doesn't want to skeeve you out.

Nola said:

Rebeljuice said:

Basically, from what I understand, it's all down to what remains undigested in the stomach. Suicide by pill usually entails someone taking a lot of pills. More than enough to overdose. What happens is once the required amount to kill has metabolized you will die. There will still be several undigested pills in the stomach. It is therefore an easy determination to make that it was suicide because the person clearly took way more pills than is safe. But if only one pill contains enough to kill you (ie an illigal counterfeit pill) then there will not be any trace of further pills in the stomach. Therefore it cannot be determined that taking that pill was a deliberate attempt at suicide. The ME would have to rule accidental considering there was no suicide note either. They simply have err on the side of caution and state the person only took one pill (maybe two) indicating there is no evidence of intent to die.

Of course, what the ME does not know, and can not possibly know, is if the person KNEW one or two pills was enough to die. The only person who knows that answer is the person that is dead. Therefore, they cannot make a guess in that regard and have to state accidental.

So it is possible Prince committed suicide. but for that to be the case he would have to have known only one (maybe two) pills would do the job. He didn't swallow a dozen pills because if he did, the ME could have safely ruled his death as suicide. So the question is really whether Prince knew he had a lethal batch and knew only one or two pills would be enough to end it all, or whether he was oblivious to the fact he was walking around with kill pills. That can be the only determining factor that would answer the accidental vs suicide question.

It is possible to deduce that after Moline he surely must have known what he had on his hands and therefore knew the Bayer bottle contained deadly pills. But reading JH's interview with the police, it sounds like Prince thought his OD in moline was because he mixed his pills. Implying he took one regular percocet (?) and one from the Bayer bottle. And because they didn't test the pill in Moline or conduct any blood tests, Prince left that hospital none the wiser.

It could be that deep down he knew exactly what caused the problem in Moline and was just playing dumb, indicating the second OD may have been deliberate. Or he just as easily could have genuinely thought it was all down to mixing two pills, meaning on that fateful night he thought he would be safe as long as he didn't mix his pills, indicating accidental overdose. It could also be possible the Moline incident was no accident either.

I don't think we will ever get the answer to this. It is just not possible to know what he was thinking at the time. One thing we do know is that Prince was an addict. he was also an addict that was in dire trouble. Now what goes on in the mind of an addict does not equate to what normal folk would call rational. So those last few days will probably always remain a mystery.

Yes, this all makes sense - great answer. Thank you!

yes thanks Rebel.

PennyPurple said:

1Sasha said:

I think she knew something was going on. Yes, people can hide addiction, but where did she sleep? What bathroom did she use? When you are living with someone for two weeks, then you leave him and go away for two weeks, then come back ... You can see or sense things. She wasn't there exclusively so she wouldn't have missed little changes. He looked skeletal in that video she made with him. Really? She didn't notice?

[Edited 6/27/18 8:15am]

Yeah but most of the time he shipped her out to the motel. LOL

i have to say that action of being shipped out and looking skinny and mood swings, would

have to clue most well knowing people that there is an issue of drugs, alcohol or something else

not well. i hate to say but i think most everyone knew, how dire? no i don't think they all knew

how dire.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Well her and KJ said that now they know why he had the mood swings.

Mayte said back in January/16 that she heard he wasn't doing well.

[Edited 6/27/18 8:35am]

such a sad coda to their journey tgether...and further proof that even those who had not been in contact with him for years 'KNEW"...for all the love that so many professed for him, I only hope they feel shame for their cowardice in not standing up and speaking out...

agree!!!!!!! they let there silence enable and kill him and that wasn't love. i need one person

to please say they let him HAVE IT!! AND RAINED A MOUND OF TOUGH LOVE ON HIS BEHIND.

PLEASE ONE PERSON!!!! i need that book. so sad.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

And?

and maybe we're supposed to think that getting bounced to a motel by your 'boyfriend' when you're visiting him is an example of him being caring and concerned that you might be turned off by the condition of his private living quarters and he doesn't want to skeeve you out.

does she ever say where she slept? was it the green room?

purplefam99 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

and maybe we're supposed to think that getting bounced to a motel by your 'boyfriend' when you're visiting him is an example of him being caring and concerned that you might be turned off by the condition of his private living quarters and he doesn't want to skeeve you out.

does she ever say where she slept? was it the green room?

She said they watched movies in the green room.

purplefam99 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

such a sad coda to their journey tgether...and further proof that even those who had not been in contact with him for years 'KNEW"...for all the love that so many professed for him, I only hope they feel shame for their cowardice in not standing up and speaking out...

agree!!!!!!! they let there silence enable and kill him and that wasn't love. i need one person

to please say they let him HAVE IT!! AND RAINED A MOUND OF TOUGH LOVE ON HIS BEHIND.

PLEASE ONE PERSON!!!! i need that book. so sad.

[Edited 6/27/18 13:26pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Nola said:

Yes, I guess I didn't think that through - being such a public figure, any lawyer who prepared a Will for Prince would have come forward by now. Where I live, the lawyer doesn't retain copies of Wills, Personal Directives or Enduring Power of Attorney in the case of death (just had ours done recently). Both copies came into our hands with instructions to give one copy to executor, etc. and the other to be stored ideally in a fireproof safe in the home. I remember being surprised that the lawyer didn't keep a copy in his files.

I have copies of all my clients' wills for the past 30 years.

but if ONLY u have copies they can altered if u were a sell-out (not saying u r)

ChocolateBox3121 said:

purplefam99 said:

agree!!!!!!! they let there silence enable and kill him and that wasn't love. i need one person

to please say they let him HAVE IT!! AND RAINED A MOUND OF TOUGH LOVE ON HIS BEHIND.

PLEASE ONE PERSON!!!! i need that book. so sad.

ONE person did do that.

who Mani? Sheila?

luvsexy4all said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I have copies of all my clients' wills for the past 30 years.

but if ONLY u have copies they can altered if u were a sell-out (not saying u r)

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I pray you are correct cause that was a ton of love that he needed.

PeteSilas said:

Doesn’t matter to me who, a fan, a friend an ex. I just need to know
That someone tried!!!!!

purplefam99 said:

PeteSilas said:

who Mani? Sheila?

Doesn’t matter to me who, a fan, a friend an ex. I just need to know That someone tried!!!!!!

Don't get your hopes up. From everything that we've seen, it's doubtful anybody tried too very hard.

Genesia said:

luvsexy4all said:

but if ONLY u have copies they can altered if u were a sell-out (not saying u r)

???

PennyPurple said:

purplefam99 said:

PeteSilas said: Doesn’t matter to me who, a fan, a friend an ex. I just need to know That someone tried!!!!!!

Don't get your hopes up. From everything that we've seen, it's doubtful anybody tried too very hard.

no they didn't and as i've said before, with the lowlives elvis had around and they were pretty low in my opinion, the one thing they did do, perhaps with mixed motivations, was to tell the world how addicted elvis was before he died. That was his chance to turn it around but he was maybe too far gone by that time.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

Well KJ did tell the LE officer that he was reaching out to people I assume his past associates and nobody would tell him anything. And we have heard rumors that frantic phone calls were being made to figure out how to handle this. All they were wanting was guidance, people weren't willing to admit he had a problem. We know they reached out to Hazelton. We know KJ tried to help him by taking him to his own Dr.

I'm kinda leaning towards it kinda took KJ by surprise when he started to put it all together after Moline. By KJ's own comments he knew P had a problem with this before.

Meron, didn't know anything, about him using or his past history, until they started trying to get P help. I don't want to insult the girl, so I'll just leave it at that.

Now the next question is how did he get them? By the looks of the cars in the garage he didn't take one of them out. He rode his bike, but like Menes said after Moline all eyes were on him, so I agree he already had those pills.

If we can find out what was in the Aleve bottle and if none of those had fentanyl, then he did seperate them and he did know about the fentanyl.

I am behind on reading, so if someone answered this question, I apologize.

The Aleve bottle only contained Lidocaine.

The Bayer bottle contained Fentanyl mixed with Lidocaine. He had the Bayer bottle with him in Moline.

So he did know he was taking Fentanyl, wouldn't you agree?

this is a bit of an aside, but this article claims that a flyer tainted with fentanyl and left on the windshield of a car put an officer in the hospital just because she touched it. yikes.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/06/27/police-warn-about-fentanyl-laced-flyers-after-deputy-hospitalized-for-touching-paper/23469504/

The Harris County Sheriff's Office issued a warning on Tuesday after a flyer laced with the opioid fentanyl put one of its deputies in the hospital.

The deputy in question exited a sheriff's office facility in Houston, Texas, and found a flyer on her windshield, Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said in a press briefing.

She removed the paper and began to drive away before starting to feel lightheaded. The employee was taken to the hospital following the incident and is reportedly alert and in stable condition.

The department launched a follow-up investigation and examined between 15 and 20 of the same flyers placed on nearby vehicles. It found that at least one of the papers tested positive for fentanyl, a powerful opioid 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine.

cont. at link

[Edited 6/27/18 16:07pm]

XxAxX said:

this is a bit of an aside, but this article claims that a flyer tainted with fentanyl and left on the windshield of a car put an officer in the hospital just because she touched it. yikes.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/06/27/police-warn-about-fentanyl-laced-flyers-after-deputy-hospitalized-for-touching-paper/23469504/

The Harris County Sheriff's Office issued a warning on Tuesday after a flyer laced with the opioid fentanyl put one of its deputies in the hospital.

The deputy in question exited a sheriff's office facility in Houston, Texas, and found a flyer on her windshield, Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said in a press briefing.

She removed the paper and began to drive away before starting to feel lightheaded. The employee was taken to the hospital following the incident and is reportedly alert and in stable condition.

The department launched a follow-up investigation and examined between 15 and 20 of the same flyers placed on nearby vehicles. It found that at least one of the papers tested positive for fentanyl, a powerful opioid 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine.

cont. at link

[Edited 6/27/18 16:07pm]

It's been reported several times that just by touching it Police have had to go to the hospital too. I think someone here posted an article that it wasn't true though. It's a deadly drug though, for sure.

Rebeljuice said:

I guess I don't understand why the ME or the LE would withhold the info on the amount of pills they believe he took. Perhaps the answer would contradict the MEs findings? Why else withhold that critical piece of info and why not test all the pills to determine if some were much stronger than others?

the "touching fentanyl will kill you" thing has been debunked, as opioids don't absorb through the skin (unless they have special additives as they put into prescription patches, and even then it's very slow). If opioids could get through skin easily, addicts just rub it on themselves rather than inject, swallow, smoke etc.

-

The physical issues reported in scattered stories like the one you cited were almost certainly caused by something other than fentanyl absorption.

Here's an explanation: https://tonic.vice.com/en...rough-skin

XxAxX said:

this is a bit of an aside, but this article claims that a flyer tainted with fentanyl and left on the windshield of a car put an officer in the hospital just because she touched it. yikes.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/06/27/police-warn-about-fentanyl-laced-flyers-after-deputy-hospitalized-for-touching-paper/23469504/

The Harris County Sheriff's Office issued a warning on Tuesday after a flyer laced with the opioid fentanyl put one of its deputies in the hospital.

The deputy in question exited a sheriff's office facility in Houston, Texas, and found a flyer on her windshield, Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said in a press briefing.

She removed the paper and began to drive away before starting to feel lightheaded. The employee was taken to the hospital following the incident and is reportedly alert and in stable condition.

The department launched a follow-up investigation and examined between 15 and 20 of the same flyers placed on nearby vehicles. It found that at least one of the papers tested positive for fentanyl, a powerful opioid 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine.

cont. at link

[Edited 6/27/18 16:07pm]

Camileyun said:

Rebeljuice said:

Basically, from what I understand, it's all down to what remains undigested in the stomach. Suicide by pill usually entails someone taking a lot of pills. More than enough to overdose. What happens is once the required amount to kill has metabolized you will die. There will still be several undigested pills in the stomach. It is therefore an easy determination to make that it was suicide because the person clearly took way more pills than is safe. But if only one pill contains enough to kill you (ie an illigal counterfeit pill) then there will not be any trace of further pills in the stomach. Therefore it cannot be determined that taking that pill was a deliberate attempt at suicide. The ME would have to rule accidental considering there was no suicide note either. They simply have err on the side of caution and state the person only took one pill (maybe two) indicating there is no evidence of intent to die.

Of course, what the ME does not know, and can not possibly know, is if the person KNEW one or two pills was enough to die. The only person who knows that answer is the person that is dead. Therefore, they cannot make a guess in that regard and have to state accidental.

So it is possible Prince committed suicide. but for that to be the case he would have to have known only one (maybe two) pills would do the job. He didn't swallow a dozen pills because if he did, the ME could have safely ruled his death as suicide. So the question is really whether Prince knew he had a lethal batch and knew only one or two pills would be enough to end it all, or whether he was oblivious to the fact he was walking around with kill pills. That can be the only determining factor that would answer the accidental vs suicide question.

It is possible to deduce that after Moline he surely must have known what he had on his hands and therefore knew the Bayer bottle contained deadly pills. But reading JH's interview with the police, it sounds like Prince thought his OD in moline was because he mixed his pills. Implying he took one regular percocet (?) and one from the Bayer bottle. And because they didn't test the pill in Moline or conduct any blood tests, Prince left that hospital none the wiser.

It could be that deep down he knew exactly what caused the problem in Moline and was just playing dumb, indicating the second OD may have been deliberate. Or he just as easily could have genuinely thought it was all down to mixing two pills, meaning on that fateful night he thought he would be safe as long as he didn't mix his pills, indicating accidental overdose. It could also be possible the Moline incident was no accident either.

I don't think we will ever get the answer to this. It is just not possible to know what he was thinking at the time. One thing we do know is that Prince was an addict. he was also an addict that was in dire trouble. Now what goes on in the mind of an addict does not equate to what normal folk would call rational. So those last few days will probably always remain a mystery.

I guess I don't understand why the ME or the LE would withhold the info on the amount of pills they believe he took. Perhaps the answer would contradict the MEs findings? Why else withhold that critical piece of info and why not test all the pills to determine if some were much stronger than others?

The ME released information allowed by Minnesota law at the time, if I understand it correctly. That is why all we saw was a one-page document.

Camileyun said:

Maybe the ME could not determine the number of pills because the level of fentanyl was different since they were not legit hydrocodone.

1Sasha said:

I know, I just don't see much difference in releasing the details of the amount of fen. in Ps system and the no. of pills taken.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Nola said:

Yes, I guess I didn't think that through - being such a public figure, any lawyer who prepared a Will for Prince would have come forward by now. Where I live, the lawyer doesn't retain copies of Wills, Personal Directives or Enduring Power of Attorney in the case of death (just had ours done recently). Both copies came into our hands with instructions to give one copy to executor, etc. and the other to be stored ideally in a fireproof safe in the home. I remember being surprised that the lawyer didn't keep a copy in his files.

I have copies of all my clients' wills for the past 30 years.

ISaid:

.

My attorney also has a copy of my will, I have a copy and another person has a copy.

However the question is… hypothetically speaking: Someone is married and retains an attorney’s services to write his will. Later, he divorces, then goes to the attorney’s office and tells them that he wants the will void, as if it never existed.

.

Does that attorney ever say something upon hearing of a death of a client? Could P have had wills where he simply told his attorney he had changed his mind?

.

And even if the attorney weren’t told to discard a will, would they still reveal a will for which they no longer knew if the contents reflected the person’s wishes?

.

What is the protocol for attorneys in these situations?

.

If an attorney created a will for P, 25 years ago, would he/she be obligated to come forward with the document in 2016?

.

Sorry to be so naive about all this.

.

kind regards, ~DD

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

Yeah but most of the time he shipped her out to the motel. LOL

i have to say that action of being shipped out and looking skinny and mood swings, would

have to clue most well knowing people that there is an issue of drugs, alcohol or something else

not well. i hate to say but i think most everyone knew, how dire? no i don't think they all knew

how dire.

one of those ladies who was a former employee said it bluntly "if they say they didn't know, they are lying". Even if someone didn't know, the way people are, they talk to each other, they'd see something, you ever notice when any group of people work together there are many rumours? Many of which have no real basis in fact.

DD55 said:

.

My attorney also has a copy of my will, I have a copy and another person has a copy.

However the question is… hypothetically speaking: Someone is married and retains an attorney’s services to write his will. Later, he divorces, then goes to the attorney’s office and tells them that he wants the will void, as if it never existed.

.

Does that attorney ever say something upon hearing of a death of a client? Could P have had wills where he simply told his attorney he had changed his mind?

.

And even if the attorney weren’t told to discard a will, would they still reveal a will for which they no longer knew if the contents reflected the person’s wishes?

.

What is the protocol for attorneys in these situations?

.

If an attorney created a will for P, 25 years ago, would he/she be obligated to come forward with the document in 2016?

.

Sorry to be so naive about all this.

.

kind regards, ~DD

We use boilerplate language in the divorce decree that states each spouse cannot make a claim against the estate of the other spouse. For example:

"....right to act as administrator or executor in the estate of the other, right of distributee share in the other’s estate, right of exemption in the estate of the other, or any other property and other rights, benefits or privileges accruing to either Party by virtue of said marriage relationship, and any business relationship between the Parties and whether the same arises out of..."

After the divorce I send clients a letter telling them we need to prepare a new will. The new will would include language that all prior wills are "null and void."

Yes, an attorney would have an obligation to come forward if they knew about the death of the client, and knew family members could not locate a will even if it was 25 years old. In Prince's case it was stated in the court documents that the Special Administrator contacted his prior attorneys and none had a will on file. In fact, I believe they all said they encouraged Prince to draft a will but he refused to do so.

nelcp777 said:

Camileyun said:

I guess I don't understand why the ME or the LE would withhold the info on the amount of pills they believe he took. Perhaps the answer would contradict the MEs findings? Why else withhold that critical piece of info and why not test all the pills to determine if some were much stronger than others?

Maybe the ME could not determine the number of pills because the level of fentanyl was different since they were not legit hydrocodone.

The number of pills is inconsequential to the ME as that number is a variable that cannot be quantified when there is no prescribed information or accountability available. What she did tell you( in conjunction with what Dr. Schulenberg stated/ narcan amount needed in Moline) are numbers that relate specifically to toxicology. Those numbers should serve as a beacon in ones search.

An example: Prince goes to see Dr.Schuleneberg after the Moline incident. There is no indication (per the test) that any other substance has showed up in his toxicology test except for Hydrocodone. Specifically, no fentanyl, percocets, MDMA, etc. Further, Prince is very coherent , alert, and engaged . Yet, his levels of hydrocodone from the test that day is a telling factor. This is by all accounts , the definition of a functional addict.

I've insisted on the numbers for the test (@ Dr. Schulenberg) because you can calculate dosage ( amount of pills) and any related information to determine how many pills he would have ingested in order to have that much hydrocodone in his system. With raw fentanyl, there is no way to gauge what each pill may contain, and so the data would remain undetermined. However, there is an indication that it is not the same set of pills that caused the overdose in Moline, and they are not the same set of pills that caused his death. There is a conscious decision to do two things after Moline. Regulate, and continue to use. (At least in one instance = visit to Dr. Schulenberg).

Unless there was a hidden stash that was not found @PP, one can assume with a fair amount of certainty that the same pills are in existence @ PP , prior to Moline and after. Therefore, if he was picking and ingesting pills at random, that visit to Dr. Schulenberg should be more in line with what happened in Moline and @ PP.

Does that mean he intentionally overdosed @ Moline and @ PP? My answer is two-fold. (a) I believe everything is contingent upon mood/moment and (b) what is available per each circumstance of mood and moment. This by definition is self-medicating and does not necessarily mean that a medical reason has to exist.It is a merely a thought, and can occur in an instant. I think anyone in the general population who is addicted to a substance can easily relate.

nelcp777 said:

Camileyun said:

I guess I don't understand why the ME or the LE would withhold the info on the amount of pills they believe he took. Perhaps the answer would contradict the MEs findings? Why else withhold that critical piece of info and why not test all the pills to determine if some were much stronger than others?

Maybe the ME could not determine the number of pills because the level of fentanyl was different since they were not legit hydrocodone.

Exactly. If they know the chemical make up of a pill they can probably guess by testing toxicity levels in blood/liver/kidneys etc and calculate how many pills roughly are required to deliver those toxicity levels. But even then it is a guess due to us all having different metabolisms, body weight, life styles etc.

With an unknown pill with an unknown chemical makeup the ME can only go by what is found in the body (actual toxicity levels) and what is found undigested in the stomach. In the case of illigal, very high content fent pills the former will show very high readings and the latter very little undigested. If the batch of pills all show varying levels of fent and other chemicals then maths and formulas mean nothing and only educated guesses determine the final report.

I think it is safe to say that Prince did not take more than two pills at most. Because the levels of fent were so high, as soon as the digestion process was under way the fent would have killed him. There wouldnt have been much time for much digestion after that.

The ME stated "accidental" death. They must have determined only one or two pills were consumed (a suicide attempt will usually entail a handful of pills). A note was never found. Interviews with friends and family did not pick up on any suicidal tendancies. Basically, there was no evidence of suicide.

It doesn't mean it wasn't suicide. i wouldn't put it past Prince to correograph something so as the outcome did not reflect the intent, the man was an expert at projecting an image that didn't portray the man afterall. But I think it is unlikely in this case because then we are in the realms of creating narratives that can only be wild guesses. He would have had to deliberately source pills that could kill by taking only one or two. Or he would have to have asked for such pills to be made. And even if he stumbled upon these pills accidentally, how would he have known they were lethal in the first place unless someone had already proved their lethal toxicity before. It's all a bit conspiracy driven.

I just think he had lost control and was consumed by the need to feed his addiction. And when you are in that dark place, rational thought, care and attention all go out the window. In his desperate need to feed his addiction he went (or got someone to go to) the seedy underground to procure the pills. Each time needing something better, stronger and more effective than the last batch. The doctor scripts that KJ was getting just didn't cut it any more.

Menes said:

nelcp777 said:

Camileyun said: Maybe the ME could not determine the number of pills because the level of fentanyl was different since they were not legit hydrocodone.

The number of pills is inconsequential to the ME as that number is a variable that cannot be quantified when there is no prescribed information or accountability available. What she did tell you( in conjunction with what Dr. Schulenberg stated/ narcan amount needed in Moline) are numbers that relate specifically to toxicology. Those numbers should serve as a beacon in ones search.

An example: Prince goes to see Dr.Schuleneberg after the Moline incident. There is no indication (per the test) that any other substance has showed up in his toxicology test except for Hydrocodone. Specifically, no fentanyl, percocets, MDMA, etc. Further, Prince is very coherent , alert, and engaged . Yet, his levels of hydrocodone from the test that day is a telling factor. This is by all accounts , the definition of a functional addict.

I've insisted on the numbers for the test (@ Dr. Schulenberg) because you can calculate dosage ( amount of pills) and any related information to determine how many pills he would have ingested in order to have that much hydrocodone in his system. With raw fentanyl, there is no way to gauge what each pill may contain, and so the data would remain undetermined. However, there is an indication that it is not the same set of pills that caused the overdose in Moline, and they are not the same set of pills that caused his death. There is a conscious decision to do two things after Moline. Regulate, and continue to use. (At least in one instance = visit to Dr. Schulenberg).

Unless there was a hidden stash that was not found @PP, one can assume with a fair amount of certainty that the same pills are in existence @ PP , prior to Moline and after. Therefore, if he was picking and ingesting pills at random, that visit to Dr. Schulenberg should be more in line with what happened in Moline and @ PP.

Does that mean he intentionally overdosed @ Moline and @ PP? My answer is two-fold. (a) I believe everything is contingent upon mood/moment and (b) what is available per each circumstance of mood and moment. This by definition is self-medicating and does not necessarily mean that a medical reason has to exist.It is a merely a thought, and can occur in an instant. I think anyone in the general population who is addicted to a substance can easily relate.

I have always been in two minds as to how Prince dealt with his addiction. 1) He was pretty naive about it all and just fed his addiction according to what his body was telling him he needed without much thought into what it was he put into his body. 2) He was very clued up on the chemistry and dosages and physical effects of what he was taking. He would split pills, combine and alter his pill intake depending on circumstance, physical health, food intake etc.

If the former then there is an argument that he could have died a long time ago. throwing caution to the wind and being obliviuous to what you are ingesting does not make for a long term drug habit. Not when your drug of choice is in the opiate family. But then are we sure he had a long term habit and not just something that over came him in the last year or two of his life? If we think he has been at it for many years then he could not have been this kind of care-free addict.

If the latter then there is a good case for determining Prince was a seasoned addict that controlled his intake and was able to function at high levels for a very long period of time. If this is the case, your example of Prince seeing Dr S and testing only for Hydrocodone could merely point to Prince knowing that a test on monday would reveal fent, but if he waited until Tuesday the fent, with its short half life would no longer be traceable. He wouldn't have to be a chemist to know these things. google will tell you a lot about it all. An addict will always try and hide, if not the addiction itself, then the seriousness of the addiction. If Prince was determined not to reveal the extent of how far down the rabbit hole he had gone, setting his own test dates is a way of continuing to hide the severity.

I'm kind of erring on the side of him being pretty knowledagle about his addiction and the chemicals he needed to feed it. And my reason for that is because I think he has been on this roller coaster for many years. I guess the only big question I have left is did he seek out the strong stuff or did he end up with it by accident. Afterall, he had prescription drugs around him that he could have taken (and was taking according to the Dr S test), so why take the pills in the Bayer bottle? Was it at a point where nothing else satisfied him? Or was he unlucky and thought he had something less potent?

Rebeljuice said:

Menes said:

The number of pills is inconsequential to the ME as that number is a variable that cannot be quantified when there is no prescribed information or accountability available. What she did tell you( in conjunction with what Dr. Schulenberg stated/ narcan amount needed in Moline) are numbers that relate specifically to toxicology. Those numbers should serve as a beacon in ones search.

An example: Prince goes to see Dr.Schuleneberg after the Moline incident. There is no indication (per the test) that any other substance has showed up in his toxicology test except for Hydrocodone. Specifically, no fentanyl, percocets, MDMA, etc. Further, Prince is very coherent , alert, and engaged . Yet, his levels of hydrocodone from the test that day is a telling factor. This is by all accounts , the definition of a functional addict.

I've insisted on the numbers for the test (@ Dr. Schulenberg) because you can calculate dosage ( amount of pills) and any related information to determine how many pills he would have ingested in order to have that much hydrocodone in his system. With raw fentanyl, there is no way to gauge what each pill may contain, and so the data would remain undetermined. However, there is an indication that it is not the same set of pills that caused the overdose in Moline, and they are not the same set of pills that caused his death. There is a conscious decision to do two things after Moline. Regulate, and continue to use. (At least in one instance = visit to Dr. Schulenberg).

Unless there was a hidden stash that was not found @PP, one can assume with a fair amount of certainty that the same pills are in existence @ PP , prior to Moline and after. Therefore, if he was picking and ingesting pills at random, that visit to Dr. Schulenberg should be more in line with what happened in Moline and @ PP.

Does that mean he intentionally overdosed @ Moline and @ PP? My answer is two-fold. (a) I believe everything is contingent upon mood/moment and (b) what is available per each circumstance of mood and moment. This by definition is self-medicating and does not necessarily mean that a medical reason has to exist.It is a merely a thought, and can occur in an instant. I think anyone in the general population who is addicted to a substance can easily relate.

I have always been in two minds as to how Prince dealt with his addiction. 1) He was pretty naive about it all and just fed his addiction according to what his body was telling him he needed without much thought into what it was he put into his body. 2) He was very clued up on the chemistry and dosages and physical effects of what he was taking. He would split pills, combine and alter his pill intake depending on circumstance, physical health, food intake etc.

If the former then there is an argument that he could have died a long time ago. throwing caution to the wind and being obliviuous to what you are ingesting does not make for a long term drug habit. Not when your drug of choice is in the opiate family. But then are we sure he had a long term habit and not just something that over came him in the last year or two of his life? If we think he has been at it for many years then he could not have been this kind of care-free addict.

If the latter then there is a good case for determining Prince was a seasoned addict that controlled his intake and was able to function at high levels for a very long period of time. If this is the case, your example of Prince seeing Dr S and testing only for Hydrocodone could merely point to Prince knowing that a test on monday would reveal fent, but if he waited until Tuesday the fent, with its short half life would no longer be traceable. He wouldn't have to be a chemist to know these things. google will tell you a lot about it all. An addict will always try and hide, if not the addiction itself, then the seriousness of the addiction. If Prince was determined not to reveal the extent of how far down the rabbit hole he had gone, setting his own test dates is a way of continuing to hide the severity.

I'm kind of erring on the side of him being pretty knowledagle about his addiction and the chemicals he needed to feed it. And my reason for that is because I think he has been on this roller coaster for many years. I guess the only big question I have left is did he seek out the strong stuff or did he end up with it by accident. Afterall, he had prescription drugs around him that he could have taken (and was taking according to the Dr S test), so why take the pills in the Bayer bottle? Was it at a point where nothing else satisfied him? Or was he unlucky and thought he had something less potent?

Even if he did obtain the deadly pills by accident, there is clear evidence that for (7) days after Moline , he was using opiates in a more controlled way. As in: (7) days of feeding without overdosing. That's why the numbers for the hydrocodone matter. Once you figure out how much hydrocodone he would have needed to take to overdose, in very short order , one would know that he understood the difference between what he did in Moline and what he was doing (7) days prior to his death. No comparison. What happened @ PP mirrors what happened in Moline.

It's interesting that he would allow Dr. Schulenberg to get a read on what he was doing because he went there while recently feeding. The odd thing is that he pretended to not know what he was doing when thoroughly questioned by Dr.Schulenberg. Why even go to the appointment? It's almost as if he thought he could outsmart everyone( to include a test). That should tell you something.

[Edited 6/28/18 14:29pm]