CROWNS1 said:

DoItAllNight4U said:

What in the... I didn't know that!

https://twitter.com/midwestmedexam

I mean, I KNOW his passing is news and all but really, who would want their autopsy plastered on Twitter? It's dehumanizing IMO

Yeah, that's not cool.

Selena4641 said:

roxy831 said:

Cindyt: I was thinking the same thing. Was there anything legally those around him could have done! Why didn't they immediately take him to a Minneapolis hospital to get a private room! This makes absolutely no sense! As far as I'm concerned, if you see a loved one overdose in front of your eyes, they are going and STAYING in a hospital!

You can't force someone to go to a Hospital. Most hospitals don't have a rehab floor to begin with. Doctors that prescribe Suboxone have to be licensed to prescribe it. That's why most doctors that prescribe it are private practice, or have their own clinic. And this whole private room thing is bullshit. Yes, I understand he was Prince, but you can't expect a hospital to just shuffle patients around because Prince is there. Just because he was Prince doesn't mean his life was more valuable than anyone else's. How would you feel if your loved one was denied help or a room because of Prince wanting a private room? I'd be pissed. I'm sorry but Prince's vanity stopped him from getting help when his plane made the emergency landing and he left the hospital because he couldn't get a private room. Sadly, Pride cometh before a fall. [Edited 6/3/16 11:25am]

Look, there's this thing where you have to prove a person is not of sound mind before you can force them to stay in a hospital or go to rehab. Literally, the person has to be trying to kill himself or others. You can't make Prince stay in the hospital because he's obviously very sick. You can advise him to all day long, but unless he starts trying to commit suicide? You have to let him go home if he wants to. If the man preferred to go home and die, it's nobody's call but his. Obviously, I have no idea if he wanted to die or whatever, I'm just sayin', no matter what, all this crazy-ass chatter about forcing him to stay in the hospital is ridiculous. Who would that be for, you or him? Not even him, I about guarantee it.

TonyVanDam: I totally feel your pain, but we're talking about an artist who chose not to have an easily accessible Last Will and Testament. How can any of us fight a battle without armor???

I hear you. But it is possible that Prince knew exactly what he was doing: he knew his estate was going to be complicated and he trusted the probate court to sort it out. Probate Court is not something necessarily to be feared as some that try to sell trust schemes (cough, cough) would lead us to believe. The Probate Court will distribute the estate according to law, while at the same time dealing with all of the claims against the estate.

I have not read this thread, but this morning I saw a commercial for Opioid PRESCRIPTION. Man was that a shocker to see in light of whats happening laTELY.

Blakbear said:

Selena4641 said:

roxy831 said: You can't force someone to go to a Hospital. Most hospitals don't have a rehab floor to begin with. Doctors that prescribe Suboxone have to be licensed to prescribe it. That's why most doctors that prescribe it are private practice, or have their own clinic. And this whole private room thing is bullshit. Yes, I understand he was Prince, but you can't expect a hospital to just shuffle patients around because Prince is there. Just because he was Prince doesn't mean his life was more valuable than anyone else's. How would you feel if your loved one was denied help or a room because of Prince wanting a private room? I'd be pissed. I'm sorry but Prince's vanity stopped him from getting help when his plane made the emergency landing and he left the hospital because he couldn't get a private room. Sadly, Pride cometh before a fall. [Edited 6/3/16 11:25am]

Look, there's this thing where you have to prove a person is not of sound mind before you can force them to stay in a hospital or go to rehab. Literally, the person has to be trying to kill himself or others. You can't make Prince stay in the hospital because he's obviously very sick. You can advise him to all day long, but unless he starts trying to commit suicide? You have to let him go home if he wants to. If the man preferred to go home and die, it's nobody's call but his. Obviously, I have no idea if he wanted to die or whatever, I'm just sayin', no matter what, all this crazy-ass chatter about forcing him to stay in the hospital is ridiculous. Who would that be for, you or him? Not even him, I about guarantee it.

Thank you Blakbear....this ^^^^^^, a thousand times this! I don't understand how people think that someone who is an adult of sound mind can be FORCED into medical treatment!

mailaccount63 said:

TonyVanDam: I totally feel your pain, but we're talking about an artist who chose not to have an easily accessible Last Will and Testament. How can any of us fight a battle without armor???

I hear you. But it is possible that Prince knew exactly what he was doing: he knew his estate was going to be complicated and he trusted the probate court to sort it out. Probate Court is not something necessarily to be feared as some that try to sell trust schemes (cough, cough) would lead us to believe. The Probate Court will distribute the estate according to law, while at the same time dealing with all of the claims against the estate.

That's a point that hasn't been considered and thanks for making it.

Mumio said:

Blakbear said:

Look, there's this thing where you have to prove a person is not of sound mind before you can force them to stay in a hospital or go to rehab. Literally, the person has to be trying to kill himself or others. You can't make Prince stay in the hospital because he's obviously very sick. You can advise him to all day long, but unless he starts trying to commit suicide? You have to let him go home if he wants to. If the man preferred to go home and die, it's nobody's call but his. Obviously, I have no idea if he wanted to die or whatever, I'm just sayin', no matter what, all this crazy-ass chatter about forcing him to stay in the hospital is ridiculous. Who would that be for, you or him? Not even him, I about guarantee it.

Thank you Blakbear....this ^^^^^^, a thousand times this! I don't understand how people think that someone who is an adult of sound mind can be FORCED into medical treatment!

Because they see it happen, but don't realize there's a procedure behind it, and they don't realize that while Prince was a bit out there, he was basically competent. And a doctor would now the difference between competent and "needs supervision".

If people want to insist he should have been forced to stay: Oh yeah? Prove he couldn't take care of himself.

Blakbear said:

If people want to insist he should have been forced to stay: Oh yeah? Prove he couldn't take care of himself.

That's the key right there.

roxy831 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Look at what the Michael Jackson estate has done. They sold what was Michael's half of the ATV/Sony Publishings back to Sony Music Entertainment for $75 million. Yes, that's a lot of money in the "right now this very moment" short-term for Prince Michael, Paris, & Blanket. But in the long-term, Sony [as 100% owner] is the real winner because those songs will make billons of dollars more within a century's time. And you know damn good and well that if Michael was alive, that deal would have NEVER happen at all because he knew better, hence why Michael had to be murdered and out of the equation.

Just wait for the worst to come now that Prince is no longer around to stop The Warner Bros Music Group or any other greed MFers from taking advantages of the situation. All it will take is for someone/some people to give Tyka the very wrong business advices and before you know it, all of Prince's master recordings, publishings, and even Paisley Park Studio are going to be owned by Warner Bros.

Just wait!

[Edited 6/4/16 0:46am]

TonyVanDam: I totally feel your pain, but we're talking about an artist who chose not to have an easily accessible Last Will and Testament. How can any of us fight a battle without armor???

THAT is exactly what makes this controversy [no pun intended] more tragic. Prince's anti-contract stance should have made a strong exception for a will.

TonyVanDam said:

"Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, a family practitioner, treated Prince twice in the weeks before his death and told investigators he prescribed medications for the singer. The medications were not specified in a search warrant for the Minnesota hospital that employed Schulenberg at the time."

I'd like to know what other medications were prescribed for Prince?? If there were any type of psychotropic drugs or anti-anxiety meds, these can make a person act completely different than they normally would. Will we ever know what else they gave him? Will the investigation continue and reveal the entire story?

Thank you Blakbear....this ^^^^^^, a thousand times this! I don't understand how people think that someone who is an adult of sound mind can be FORCED into medical treatment!

I don't want to apologize for my taking a strong opinion about how to treat someone after they overdose in front of you, but COME ON. Was he even lucid when they put him back on the plane? I'm letting it go....

roxy831 said:

Thank you Blakbear....this ^^^^^^, a thousand times this! I don't understand how people think that someone who is an adult of sound mind can be FORCED into medical treatment!

I don't want to apologize for my taking a strong opinion about how to treat someone after they overdose in front of you, but COME ON. Was he even lucid when they put him back on the plane? I'm letting it go....

Hey roxy831, I understand where you are coming from when speaking about this situation. I would like to say that he should have been forced to stay in the hospital and maybe he should have been forced into a lot of things in the last week. However, I'm sure he couldn't be forced unless he was tied down and carted off somewhere, and telling him to do something and him actually wanting to do it are certainly different things. I am unsure if others around him were trying to convince him of things he should be doing and he was resistant or not. I think a big part of not staying in the hospital or entering a local rehab facility was because he wanted to keep it quiet and perhaps others around him agreed...that or they were firmly reminded of this by Prince. One cannot say what might have transpired. I wish I knew and I wish I knew what his mindset was at the time. I feel like this poor man was conflicted between helping himself and still trying to keep up his image.

TopazGirl said:

roxy831 said:

I don't want to apologize for my taking a strong opinion about how to treat someone after they overdose in front of you, but COME ON. Was he even lucid when they put him back on the plane? I'm letting it go....

Hey roxy831, I understand where you are coming from when speaking about this situation. I would like to say that he should have been forced to stay in the hospital and maybe he should have been forced into a lot of things in the last week. However, I'm sure he couldn't be forced unless he was tied down and carted off somewhere, and telling him to do something and him actually wanting to do it are certainly different things. I am unsure if others around him were trying to convince him of things he should be doing and he was resistant or not. I think a big part of not staying in the hospital or entering a local rehab facility was because he wanted to keep it quiet and perhaps others around him agreed...that or they were firmly reminded of this by Prince. One cannot say what might have transpired. I wish I knew and I wish I knew what his mindset was at the time. I feel like this poor man was conflicted between helping himself and still trying to keep up his image.

Thanks TopazGirl. I'm letting it go. I just believe in my hands being clean and my mind clear of guilt. My heart goes out to those who had to deal with this first hand. My God!

Mumio said:

Mumio said:

roxy831 said:

I don't want to apologize for my taking a strong opinion about how to treat someone after they overdose in front of you, but COME ON. Was he even lucid when they put him back on the plane? I'm letting it go....

Hi roxy831. What Blakbear and I were both getting at is the legalities of trying to hospitalize someone who is considered of sound mind. This was something that the ER docs would have had to evaluate Prince for and since he did leave, they apparently determined he was of sound mind and able to make decisions for himself. Please don't feel I was looking for an apology because I wasn't...just stating the facts.

LavenderSky said:

CROWNS1 said:

tmo1965 said:

bondno9 said:

According to the National Institute of Health fentanyl should be used only to treat breakthrough cancer pain (sudden episodes of pain that occur despite around-the-clock treatment with pain medication) in cancer patients at least 18 years of age (or at least 16 years of age if taking Actiq brand lozenges) who are taking regularly scheduled doses of another narcotic (opiate) pain medication, and who are tolerant (used to the effects of the medication) to narcotic pain medications.This medication should not be used to treat pain other than chronic cancer pain

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/m...3.html#why

Read the NIH info and Fentanyl is no joke. I would be afraid to take it personally.

It is commonly used for chronic pain, though, by numerous doctors. Honestly, with terminal patients, that are at home, they typically use morphine and lorazepam solutions. It also is used for surgeries, etc. It has many uses besides just cancer pain.

I just wanted to make some points here.

First, please do not buy the Daily Mail story that was out there. Let's not forget he claimed to have suffered from anxiety rather than pain and claimed he ate chicken. Please.

Second, please also dismiss the thoughts of him having a fentanyl lollipop. I can't promise this to be false, but could say almost certainly it is false. These are reserved for children suffering from cancer. Out of all the fentanyl sources out there, these would be the least likely to kill someone, too.

There is no doubt Prince suffered from real physical pain. We know some of that pain was due to wear and tear. However, I do still think that he may have had pain due to another condition than just this, but it was something that was not fatal or a factor contributing to his death. I wish we knew thus there could be more understanding as to what happened to him.

As for the fentanyl, with the little bit of information we know, we still have to consider the fact that Prince may not have known he was "self-administering" fentanyl. When news first broke out, Percocet was to blame. Percocet comes in a tablet. Reports even claim there were Percocet tablets found in the elevator. Fentanyl is almost always dispensed as a patch. There are some sublingual sprays and sublingual tablets but they are rarely ever seen or used. What is a possibility is that if someone was illegally bringing drugs to him because he was afraid for his privacy, he may have taken adulterated tablets thinking they were Percocet but were in fact fentanyl or had significant concentrations of fentanyl. Given these are made by criminals on the street, one tablet may contain a fraction of fentanyl while another tablet contains more. They will make them look just like real Percocet or Norco, too.

It could have been a patch that is to blame. Yes, patches can kill people if they are not opioid tolerant enough to tolerate one (see my previous posts about real stories involving fentanyl). One does not need to be taking other medciations to die from a patch. They can also kill someone if they cut the patch, heat the patch or abuse the patch. There are IV and intramuscular forms of this medication but they should never been in a house--or a pharmacy. They are to be used in hospitals or clinics only where appropriate equipment is available to resusitate someone.

Fentanyl is a bit odd in that once the pain begins to come back, that does not mean the respiratory depression risk is also less. In other words, the respiratory depressant effects (which is what caused this precious man to pass) persists longer than the analgesic (pain relieving) actions, thus residual fentanyl from one dose (the dose taken earlier) could potentiate the effect of the next dose (basically doubling the risk of stopping breathing). Hence why for home use, it is almost always used a patch so that the dosing is constant and steady. We still do not know how Prince administered the medication, but if he was taking adulterated or fake Percocets then he may not have realized that he was still at risk of stopping breathing, even though the pain continued. If he had a patch on, it may have been too strong for him. I do not want to fathom him injecting it, either with a solution from a hospital or from a patch (yes, people do use patches in ways no one wants to imagine). I think the most likely scenario is he took fake tablets, which the public should be made aware about as it poses a risk to the public, or from a patch that was was too strong, which would further determine his death to be accidental and in no way suicide. The pathetic tweet from the Medical Examiner states there were no other causes of death nor any other significant conditions. This does not mean he did not suffer from other non-fatal issues.

His death was hard enough to deal with for all of us. He was too young. I think all of us here love his music, and many of us here adored this man with a large part of our heart, as we always will. After the release of the Medical Examiner's report, I am distraught because it leaves us with even more questions than answers yet again. How does a man who was full of life, riding his bike, making music, preparing for the future and who was one of the few musical acts to have practiced "clean living" as his close friends have said, and have no reason to lie, suddenly die from what is basically the most potent opioid on the planet? We need to know more. I want to respect his privacy but we need to know how this happened. We didn't really need to know his weight, or his height (we already knew anyway) or if his hair is real or not, etc. What we need to know is simply how does someone who seemed to be having some health issues suddenly die alone in an elevator of all places from a drug overdose. If anything, we need to know what lead up to the need for the pain medications (was it just painful joints or something more, when did the pain become intolerable) and then maybe we can learn from it and save someone else. I think that is what Prince would want is for someone else to hopefully learn that apparently this can actually happen to anyone at anytime and that no one should die alone like this, especially when they are only 57 and have so much more to give, though he already gave us 10 lifetimes of so much while he was here. He would not want his death to be in vain. If we know more information about what happened to him, then just maybe some lives can be saved for years to come.

Sorry for any misspellings or misunderstandings as I am very tired and am not the best proofreader.

CROWNS1 said:

gatorgirl said:

I just wanted to make some points here.

First, please do not buy the Daily Mail story that was out there. Let's not forget he claimed to have suffered from anxiety rather than pain and claimed he ate chicken. Please.

Second, please also dismiss the thoughts of him having a fentanyl lollipop. I can't promise this to be false, but could say almost certainly it is false. These are reserved for children suffering from cancer. Out of all the fentanyl sources out there, these would be the least likely to kill someone, too.

There is no doubt Prince suffered from real physical pain. We know some of that pain was due to wear and tear. However, I do still think that he may have had pain due to another condition than just this, but it was something that was not fatal or a factor contributing to his death. I wish we knew thus there could be more understanding as to what happened to him.

As for the fentanyl, with the little bit of information we know, we still have to consider the fact that Prince may not have known he was "self-administering" fentanyl. When news first broke out, Percocet was to blame. Percocet comes in a tablet. Reports even claim there were Percocet tablets found in the elevator. Fentanyl is almost always dispensed as a patch. There are some sublingual sprays and sublingual tablets but they are rarely ever seen or used. What is a possibility is that if someone was illegally bringing drugs to him because he was afraid for his privacy, he may have taken adulterated tablets thinking they were Percocet but were in fact fentanyl or had significant concentrations of fentanyl. Given these are made by criminals on the street, one tablet may contain a fraction of fentanyl while another tablet contains more. They will make them look just like real Percocet or Norco, too.

It could have been a patch that is to blame. Yes, patches can kill people if they are not opioid tolerant enough to tolerate one (see my previous posts about real stories involving fentanyl). One does not need to be taking other medciations to die from a patch. They can also kill someone if they cut the patch, heat the patch or abuse the patch. There are IV and intramuscular forms of this medication but they should never been in a house--or a pharmacy. They are to be used in hospitals or clinics only where appropriate equipment is available to resusitate someone.

Fentanyl is a bit odd in that once the pain begins to come back, that does not mean the respiratory depression risk is also less. In other words, the respiratory depressant effects (which is what caused this precious man to pass) persists longer than the analgesic (pain relieving) actions, thus residual fentanyl from one dose (the dose taken earlier) could potentiate the effect of the next dose (basically doubling the risk of stopping breathing). Hence why for home use, it is almost always used a patch so that the dosing is constant and steady. We still do not know how Prince administered the medication, but if he was taking adulterated or fake Percocets then he may not have realized that he was still at risk of stopping breathing, even though the pain continued. If he had a patch on, it may have been too strong for him. I do not want to fathom him injecting it, either with a solution from a hospital or from a patch (yes, people do use patches in ways no one wants to imagine). I think the most likely scenario is he took fake tablets, which the public should be made aware about as it poses a risk to the public, or from a patch that was was too strong, which would further determine his death to be accidental and in no way suicide. The pathetic tweet from the Medical Examiner states there were no other causes of death nor any other significant conditions. This does not mean he did not suffer from other non-fatal issues.

His death was hard enough to deal with for all of us. He was too young. I think all of us here love his music, and many of us here adored this man with a large part of our heart, as we always will. After the release of the Medical Examiner's report, I am distraught because it leaves us with even more questions than answers yet again. How does a man who was full of life, riding his bike, making music, preparing for the future and who was one of the few musical acts to have practiced "clean living" as his close friends have said, and have no reason to lie, suddenly die from what is basically the most potent opioid on the planet? We need to know more. I want to respect his privacy but we need to know how this happened. We didn't really need to know his weight, or his height (we already knew anyway) or if his hair is real or not, etc. What we need to know is simply how does someone who seemed to be having some health issues suddenly die alone in an elevator of all places from a drug overdose. If anything, we need to know what lead up to the need for the pain medications (was it just painful joints or something more, when did the pain become intolerable) and then maybe we can learn from it and save someone else. I think that is what Prince would want is for someone else to hopefully learn that apparently this can actually happen to anyone at anytime and that no one should die alone like this, especially when they are only 57 and have so much more to give, though he already gave us 10 lifetimes of so much while he was here. He would not want his death to be in vain. If we know more information about what happened to him, then just maybe some lives can be saved for years to come.

Sorry for any misspellings or misunderstandings as I am very tired and am not the best proofreader.

^^ This.
That is what I can't understand. The most potent opioid in the planet. How could a man with his built already be so tolerant to pain medicine that he needed to be on something as heavy as that?
Either he was not living a clean life as stated he was or he was ill. Either way it's a tragedy.

Two excellent articles.

One from The Bemidiji Pioneer--"A decades-long epidemic: Prince's death another loss in struggle against opiod crisis" by Jon Collins. http://www.bemidjipioneer...oid-crisis

And a personal account from Maureen Hermann in boingboing, "Prince: death by ignorance and fear"

https://boingboing.net/2016/06/05/prince-death-by-ignorance-and.html

She quotes Prince--

...I hope that if there’s anything to learn from Prince’s unnecessary death, it’s that we could all use a more open mind and some compassion when discussing someone else’s problems. As Prince said, “It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. And we're in a place now where we all need one another, and it's going to get rougher.”

littlemissG said:

BillieBalloon said:

After his first overdose there was no immediate intervention and he went on to overdose again...a week later.

should have gone to a hospital as soon as it landed in Minnieapolis. But pride told him he had it all under control went home and had a party instead. Put on the make-up and put on the act until it's too late. We can't be hard on him, most people with addictions are afraid people will think they're weak.

We don't know what happened after that landing. He may have went home and was determined to NOT use the drug anymore and kick it cold turkey.

The pain may have gotten to be too much and the figured with the doctor coming the next day that one more patch/pill would do no harm to make it all go away and sadly he misjudged his body's reaction.

If you have never had chronic debilitating pain you do not know what it is like to hurt 24/7. To be in so much pain that you would do anything to make it stop. If you are a woman who birthed children, think your worst labor pains constantly with no relief.

That type of pain is no joke and it is easy to overdose when you are in that type of pain.

CROWNS1 said:

^^ In retrospect it really does look like Mani was saying Prince had a problem, without really 'saying it'...probably couldn't say it due to agreements, so looks like she was just heavily implying it"

http://prince.org/msg/5/353938

Dr. Drew had the doctor that Nancy Grace uses on to explain how Fentanyl works, and why perhaps P was found in the elevator. Through normal use of a patch there would be no overdose. Using other means to get the substance into the system quicker (sub-lingual or injection) and especially mixed with a benzo would have caused a quick reaction. This again brings me right back to Schulenberg, who had no reason to be treating Prince for withdrawals. Both times he overdosed, he had been treated by Schulenberg, who supposedly didn't prescribe him any opiates...but he did prescribe him meds to help with the withdrawals...so what did he prescribe? Benzos? And then leave Prince alone to maybe take both? I don't know but I think at the end of the day Schulenberg is going to have alot of explaining to do, and at the least will lose his medical liscense if not more.

[Edited 6/2/16 17:43pm]

Oh my DAYS!

For a time his eyes lost their spark whilst he was with her..

I'd always assumed she was the reason, with the benefit of hindsight I guess what we were seeing was one of the 'valleys' bought on by a spiralling prescription med addiction.

That poor man.. his poor family...

Mumio said:

roxy831 said:

I don't want to apologize for my taking a strong opinion about how to treat someone after they overdose in front of you, but COME ON. Was he even lucid when they put him back on the plane? I'm letting it go....

Hi roxy831. What Blakbear and I were both getting at is the legalities of trying to hospitalize someone who is considered of sound mind. This was something that the ER docs would have had to evaluate Prince for and since he did leave, they apparently determined he was of sound mind and able to make decisions for himself. Please don't feel I was looking for an apology because I wasn't...just stating the facts.

We don't know the facts! That's the problem. If there are sound-minded, uninfluenced or unintimidated doctors in our world, even Michael Jackson would be alive right now. COME ON!!!

gatorgirl said:

tmo1965 said:

Read the NIH info and Fentanyl is no joke. I would be afraid to take it personally.

It is commonly used for chronic pain, though, by numerous doctors. Honestly, with terminal patients, that are at home, they typically use morphine and lorazepam solutions. It also is used for surgeries, etc. It has many uses besides just cancer pain.

How is it a drug FIFTY times more powerful than heroin is legal?

it can be prescribed or years on end with nothing more than a monthly check-up.

Big Pharma profits first people's lives last.

mailaccount63 said:

Mumio said:

That's the key right there.

He OD'd less than a week prior....that's not enough proof for you???

morningsong said:

CROWNS1 said:

^^ In retrospect it really does look like Mani was saying Prince had a problem, without really 'saying it'...probably couldn't say it due to agreements, so looks like she was just heavily implying it"

http://prince.org/msg/5/353938

Dr. Drew had the doctor that Nancy Grace uses on to explain how Fentanyl works, and why perhaps P was found in the elevator. Through normal use of a patch there would be no overdose. Using other means to get the substance into the system quicker (sub-lingual or injection) and especially mixed with a benzo would have caused a quick reaction. This again brings me right back to Schulenberg, who had no reason to be treating Prince for withdrawals. Both times he overdosed, he had been treated by Schulenberg, who supposedly didn't prescribe him any opiates...but he did prescribe him meds to help with the withdrawals...so what did he prescribe? Benzos? And then leave Prince alone to maybe take both? I don't know but I think at the end of the day Schulenberg is going to have alot of explaining to do, and at the least will lose his medical liscense if not more.

[Edited 6/2/16 17:43pm]

Never seen that thread before. wow, just wow It's illuminating a few things for me.