lazycrockett said:

I don't know much bout the EU of star wars but it seems that JJ is borrowing very heavily on some now non canon books. Honestly though I thought the whole Snoke thing was complete shit. It looked like something that would happen in a Marvel movie not Star Wars.

I'm not a snoke fan either....

I'm not sure they are following the EU too closely though. Otherwise Rey will turn out to be Kylo's twin.

babynoz said:

~Luke did understand R2 in previous films.

EDITED for Brevity

not really... sometimes he could get the gist. Like happy or sad or scared or if there was danger...but he absolutely could not understand him anywhere close to how Rey understand BB8.


However: in the cartoon Rebles they seem to be able to understand their astromech Chopper?

OnlyNDaUsa said:

babynoz said:

~Luke did understand R2 in previous films.

EDITED for Brevity

not really... sometimes he could get the gist. Like happy or sad or scared or if there was danger...but he absolutely could not understand him anywhere close to how Rey understand BB8.


However: in the cartoon Rebles they seem to be able to understand their astromech Chopper?

Maybe I'm thinking of C3PO and R2....it's been a while.

I don't like the Rebels series. Love Clone Wars though.

Im happy that the people are now able to understand astro droids, seems like a glaring error that you'd have to have a translator droid as a go between.

Plus it seems that droids are back in favor since A New Hope.

What is the deal with REN? is that his NAME or a title?

Is it spcifice to Kylo or are there other Rens? Darth was assumed to be Vaders name. Not a title.

the Knight of Ren are seen and mentioned in TFA... I thought that Kylo was their leader... maybe he is just one of the Kinghs of Ren?

is any this covered in the book? I want to read it but i will wait until it is a paper book... i hate the earth!

OnlyNDaUsa said:

What is the deal with REN? is that his NAME or a title?

Is it spcifice to Kylo or are there other Rens? Darth was assumed to be Vaders name. Not a title.

the Knight of Ren are seen and mentioned in TFA... I thought that Kylo was their leader... maybe he is just one of the Kinghs of Ren?

is any this covered in the book? I want to read it but i will wait until it is a paper book... i hate the earth!

There are lots of Darths though. When you become a sith lord you become Darth somebody, right?

I'm not familiar with this talk of Rens but it seems like something Kylo started when he went to the dark side and took many of his apprentices with him. Never heard of Rens before that. Maybe somebody else knows more about it than me.

Why does Kylo look like Snape though?

[Edited 12/23/15 14:08pm]

Well we don't know if Snokes is Sith or not, but we do know that Ren's training hasn't been complete so he wouldn't be a darth yet.

babynoz said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

What is the deal with REN? is that his NAME or a title?

Is it spcifice to Kylo or are there other Rens? Darth was assumed to be Vaders name. Not a title.

the Knight of Ren are seen and mentioned in TFA... I thought that Kylo was their leader... maybe he is just one of the Kinghs of Ren?

is any this covered in the book? I want to read it but i will wait until it is a paper book... i hate the earth!

There are lots of Darths though. When you become a sith lord you become Darth somebody, right?

I'm not familiar with this talk of Rens but it seems like something Kylo started when he went to the dark side and took many of his apprentices with him. Never heard of Rens before that. Maybe somebody else knows more about it than me.

Why does Kylo look like Snape though?

[Edited 12/23/15 14:08pm]

that is what i am asking.. is ren a name or title? i think it is just a titke. and he is just one of the Knights of Ren

Ren is a title, like Darth. Kylo (according to Snoke) is the "master of the Knights of Ren" (the others are the ones standing with Kylo during Rey's vision). Obviously not much detail has been given, but hopefully we will get more info in Ep VIII. So...is the name "Kylo" a mashup of sKYwalker and soLO? Also...as for Snoke, I'm not sure he's a Sith; I think he's an Inquisitor (from the "Rebels" cartoon). I havent watched but I know that "Rebels" deals with Vader and Palpatine sending the Inquisitors (Jedi hunters) to hunt down the last Jedis that survived the purge of Ep III. Again, hopefully we get a lot more info in 2017!

lazycrockett said:

Im happy that the people are now able to understand astro droids, seems like a glaring error that you'd have to have a translator droid as a go between.

Plus it seems that droids are back in favor since A New Hope.

To me it seems like a glaring error that anything human or organic would understand something digital that is not an organic sound-symbolic language. There was always a moment in the original trilogy to point out the mechanical or digital nature of the droids, with inhuman feats like calculating odds, connecting with other computers to ransack data, have radar-like scope of sense, or get blown apaert but still be "alive" and then repaired.

The language thing is a huge deal to me, mainly because this was a huge detail established right up front from the very beginning of Star Wars (in the film and the novelization I read so many times as a child); an established rule that seemed cool. It was these kind of details that made Star Wars better than other space fantasy attempts that had hit on TV or around the same time. It made the universe nuanced and reflect reality in funny ways. Kind of like their choice to show aged dirty ships with mechanical problems and use old school, un-sci-fi terms like "wizard".

Having no one but another machine undertand a droid felt right, and relected the idea that the droids were essentially fancy modem/fax machine/computer/vaccuum cleaner (the joke of accessories for every occasion) that comedically had human (Abbott and Costello) personas.

I'm actually tempted to read the novelization of the new movie since it is by Alan Dean Foster who ghost wrote the original novelization back in 1977. He went into all kinds of imaginitive detail to fill in tech and culture (or at least he did back then). At the same time, I wasn't to keen on "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" (first expanded universe entry?) or his novelization of "ALIEN". But maybe he has a way of smoothing over this breaking of a basic Star Wars universe rule.

In fact, in most of the movies, they go out of there way to use real languages as the basis for what the organic characters speak. Jabba was really speaking in a coherent language.

[Edited 12/24/15 11:08am]

I've seen the movie 7 times and cannot get enough of this track

namepeace said:

EmmaMcG said:

lrn36 said: Wow. I honestly don't think that's how the character was intended but maybe we'll see him have more important stuff to do in the next one.

Neither do I.

Look, Finn's relationship with Rey was going to hit a nerve from many different corners. But lrn's take doesn't quite fit the timeline of the movie.

Setting aside the fact that Rey was probably the first woman Finn had ever seen out of uniform in his life (black or white) . . . Rey was NOT Finn's first order of business.

Finn's first objective was to get away. His first big act was to free Poe so he could break him out. Then he tried to find Poe, and when he encountered Rey, he wanted to get BB-8 back to the resistance and get off the planet.

Once Solo and Chewie got them to Takodana, Finn actually would have left with the Outer Rim pirates had the First Order not attacked. After that, Finn is really only left with one choice -- the same choice that Solo faced with Luke *and* Leia in Episodes IV and V. He's bonded with Rey and wants to rescue her.


As the first central black character in the SW Universe, Finn can't win. He's going to get criticism from all corners, and his character arc isn't even complete.

His role in the new trilogy is similar to what Han Solo's was. However, he lacks that bad boy aspect that Han had so it won't work as well.

If you're going to a showing with someone who has never seen Star Wars, this is a decent summary of the first 6 films they can watch first.

whodknee said:

namepeace said:

Neither do I.

Look, Finn's relationship with Rey was going to hit a nerve from many different corners. But lrn's take doesn't quite fit the timeline of the movie.

Setting aside the fact that Rey was probably the first woman Finn had ever seen out of uniform in his life (black or white) . . . Rey was NOT Finn's first order of business.

Finn's first objective was to get away. His first big act was to free Poe so he could break him out. Then he tried to find Poe, and when he encountered Rey, he wanted to get BB-8 back to the resistance and get off the planet.

Once Solo and Chewie got them to Takodana, Finn actually would have left with the Outer Rim pirates had the First Order not attacked. After that, Finn is really only left with one choice -- the same choice that Solo faced with Luke *and* Leia in Episodes IV and V. He's bonded with Rey and wants to rescue her.


As the first central black character in the SW Universe, Finn can't win. He's going to get criticism from all corners, and his character arc isn't even complete.

His role in the new trilogy is similar to what Han Solo's was. However, he lacks that bad boy aspect that Han had so it won't work as well.

I think that type of character is what Fin will develop into. He's a storm trooper who's new to free will. I think that's why they portrayed him the way they did.

Am I the only one who didn't see his relationship with Rey as romantic?

I got this vibe.

[Edited 12/25/15 14:50pm]

babynoz said:

I don't believe that Rey is a Solo. Han did not seem to recognize her or have any kind of knowing look when she said where she was from. There's nothing that indicates any reason why the Solos would have dropped her off and left her the way she was left. The clues seem to point to Luke but who was his babymama? In the books he had a love interest but not in the movies.

I believe Mara Jade is Luke's wife in the EU.

At first I thought she might be a twin of Kylo like in the storyline of Jacen and Jaina found in the books but they said they aren't following any of the other story lines out there.

But they're pulling some of the general concepts from the EU. It's clear Ben/Ren's concept is lifted from the Jacen/Caedus storyline in the EU. They have a whole host of storylines to pull from.

I think she is either a Skywalker or a Kenobi based on the visions she had and what Maz Kanata said. Perhaps it will unfold like Luke didn't know he had a daugher and the mom intended to come back to Jakku for her but got killed instead?

Obi Wan had a romance with some Queen in Clone Wars whose name I forget but they don't seem to be incorporating those storylines either. I hope they don't depart too much from what's already out there...that would suck. I would appreciate some continuity.

Indeed. We need to find out how Maz got the saber in the first place. When last we saw it it was falling through Bespin.

~I thought that Fin's character was just a tad sterotypical but I don't think that will be a problem going forward because I think they will continue to develop him. After all, the guy was programmed clone so it stands to reason he would have a ways to go. I can laugh about it but he was kinda Jar jar like though. He damn sure ain't no Billy Dee Williams...

I don't (quite) see it that way. Honestly, I think the character was broadly drawn and some of Finn's dialogue and arc caused some slight issues with a black actor playing him. Like you said, he needs some time to develop. We all need to remember the gravitas of the original trilogy really showed up in the 2nd film. I imagine Finn's coming into Episode VIII stronger, more self-aware and a little traumatized.

~The visuals were great.

Oscar-worthy.

~Why comes nobody told Kylo that Vader eventually came back from the dark side?

As far as Ben/Ren is concerned, Vader and Anakin are 2 different beings. He claims Vader. In the EU, Vader plotted to overtake Sidious. He tried to turn Luke, and I truly believe he intended to train Luke to help him take down the Emperor and claim the Galaxy for himself. I think that's what Ben/Ren was referring to when he said, "I will finish what you started."

namepeace said:

babynoz said:

I don't believe that Rey is a Solo. Han did not seem to recognize her or have any kind of knowing look when she said where she was from. There's nothing that indicates any reason why the Solos would have dropped her off and left her the way she was left. The clues seem to point to Luke but who was his babymama? In the books he had a love interest but not in the movies.

I believe Mara Jade is Luke's wife in the EU.

At first I thought she might be a twin of Kylo like in the storyline of Jacen and Jaina found in the books but they said they aren't following any of the other story lines out there.

But they're pulling some of the general concepts from the EU. It's clear Ben/Ren's concept is lifted from the Jacen/Caedus storyline in the EU. They have a whole host of storylines to pull from.

I think she is either a Skywalker or a Kenobi based on the visions she had and what Maz Kanata said. Perhaps it will unfold like Luke didn't know he had a daugher and the mom intended to come back to Jakku for her but got killed instead?

Obi Wan had a romance with some Queen in Clone Wars whose name I forget but they don't seem to be incorporating those storylines either. I hope they don't depart too much from what's already out there...that would suck. I would appreciate some continuity.

Indeed. We need to find out how Maz got the saber in the first place. When last we saw it it was falling through Bespin.

~I thought that Fin's character was just a tad sterotypical but I don't think that will be a problem going forward because I think they will continue to develop him. After all, the guy was programmed clone so it stands to reason he would have a ways to go. I can laugh about it but he was kinda Jar jar like though. He damn sure ain't no Billy Dee Williams...

I don't (quite) see it that way. Honestly, I think the character was broadly drawn and some of Finn's dialogue and arc caused some slight issues with a black actor playing him. Like you said, he needs some time to develop. We all need to remember the gravitas of the original trilogy really showed up in the 2nd film. I imagine Finn's coming into Episode VIII stronger, more self-aware and a little traumatized.

~The visuals were great.

Oscar-worthy.

~Why comes nobody told Kylo that Vader eventually came back from the dark side?

As far as Ben/Ren is concerned, Vader and Anakin are 2 different beings. He claims Vader. In the EU, Vader plotted to overtake Sidious. He tried to turn Luke, and I truly believe he intended to train Luke to help him take down the Emperor and claim the Galaxy for himself. I think that's what Ben/Ren was referring to when he said, "I will finish what you started."

^^Thanks Peace, I was racking my brain recalling some of the EU storylines.

I doubt they had a inkling how many ways Fin's character might be perceived, so it was not an intentional thing. There's really no way to predict that sort of thing. I think they were going for a sort of country bumpkin in the big city effect. I predict they will continue to develop his character.

Regarding Kylo Ren, he reeks of angst and there's plenty room for development there too. Like you said, this is only the first in the series. Lots of threads to take up.

I do hope we don't venture too far away from the core of the story though.

some are saying the chest Rey finds the saber in is the same one from Obi Wan's hut... seems unliky but even if it is it may just be the same prop but not the actual plot object...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

some are saying the chest Rey finds the saber in is the same one from Obi Wan's hut... seems unliky but even if it is it may just be the same prop but not the actual plot object...

What was the name of that woman Obi Wan had a fling with in the EU?

Whether Rey is a Kenobi or a Skywalker I don't think her father knew about her beforehand.

babynoz said:

Am I the only one who didn't see his relationship with Rey as romantic?

I could go either way.

The greatest part of the movie for me, was watching the pure joy on my 14 year-olds face, him almost boucing out of his seat in excitement when the opening score started. Usually with movies, I can't get him to be quiet. He is my own personal Mystery Science 3000 commentator (and yes, a lot of times what he says is quite funny, but dang it, I want to hear the movie!). And this happens with ALL movies, except this one. He was completely focused on the movie, eyes shining, just pure joy. I'll have to go watch the movie again, because I think I watched him more than the movie because it was just awesome to him so happy.

prittypriss said:

The greatest part of the movie for me, was watching the pure joy on my 14 year-olds face, him almost boucing out of his seat in excitement when the opening score started. Usually with movies, I can't get him to be quiet. He is my own personal Mystery Science 3000 commentator (and yes, a lot of times what he says is quite funny, but dang it, I want to hear the movie!). And this happens with ALL movies, except this one. He was completely focused on the movie, eyes shining, just pure joy. I'll have to go watch the movie again, because I think I watched him more than the movie because it was just awesome to him so happy.

I had a similar experience with both ep I and VII... at TPM I was with a 5 year old nephew who has autism. We were a little worried that he would not make it few far....but he was totally enTHRAWNed! (haha get it Thrawn)? He was on the edge of his seat! When the pod race started I think he was actually floating! He also loved Jar Jar...now not so much! (I need to see if hes seen TFA--if not I may have to arange for him to go)

for TFA I took a 2 kids one of which is very ADHD and borderline Autism (shows some signs but not yet diagnosed). Same worry! Would he make it? Could he wait the for it to start? But he did great! Hardly a peep! A few questions here or there... but he loved it... on the way out they were bouncing... but not saying spoilers! One of them actually said to someone waiting to go in "No spoilers but it was great...." The other one said "I can't belive Jar Jar was the bad guy..." that got an uneasy chuckle...

boxoffice mojo is saying it has made a Billion world wide. beating JW by one day (and without china).

I still do not think it will beat Avatar's 2.7 Billion WW, but who knows. (and no way it will top all time adjusted)

some very wise persons are saying it is gender bias that Harrison Ford is getting paid way more than any of the other people in the movie.


Some are saying that Daisy Ridley should have been paid more that she was paid.

So what Harrison Ford is one of the very biggest stars. So what that Harrison IS HAN SOLO and no one could have played him in this movie.

So what that there are a million other actors that could have played any of the new lead roles.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

some very wise persons are saying it is gender bias that Harrison Ford is getting paid way more than any of the other people in the movie.


Some are saying that Daisy Ridley should have been paid more that she was paid.

So what Harrison Ford is one of the very biggest stars. So what that Harrison IS HAN SOLO and no one could have played him in this movie.

So what that there are a million other actors that could have played any of the new lead roles.

Silliness.

How much was Ford Paid for his first major film, (American Graffiti)? Or even his role in A New Hope? Probably a whole lot less than Ridley gets in 2015 for her first major film role.

Not to mention how this role could catapult her career. She has herself a win/win here.

We need a link to the story so we can better discuss though.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

boxoffice mojo is saying it has made a Billion world wide. beating JW by one day (and without china).

I still do not think it will beat Avatar's 2.7 Billion WW, but who knows. (and no way it will top all time adjusted)

Avatar made WHAT??? The world we live in...

Phishanga said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

boxoffice mojo is saying it has made a Billion world wide. beating JW by one day (and without china).

I still do not think it will beat Avatar's 2.7 Billion WW, but who knows. (and no way it will top all time adjusted)

Avatar made WHAT??? The world we live in...

2.788 Billion! silly and i have not seen it!