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Thread started 04/01/13 11:05am

imago

DAMNIT, I love an EDUCATED accent

First, this guy's English is amazing for a Thai person--trust me, in comparison to even some of the more educated Thais, his is immaculate.

But, even his Thai is spoken in a gorgeous accent---sort of a very high class 'Thai' accent.

Do you prefer educated accents or do you prefer coloquial 'folksy' ones?

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Reply #1 posted 04/01/13 11:14am

imago

I love the way he says, "soft tapioca balls with sweetened pork."

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Reply #2 posted 04/01/13 12:54pm

Genesia

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purse

I mean if he did have sex he would break every rule Jehova's have regarding premarital sex so Prince is really just friends with them all anyway.
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Reply #3 posted 04/01/13 2:06pm

Dave1992

I'm a fan of people who know how and when to use both.

I love it when people have slightly sophisticated accents and simply know their shit, but it also takes a lot of talent and intuition to know when a situation or conversation requires talking in a more colloquial accent, so that the counterpart might feel more comfortable, perhaps.

My accent (both in English and German) shifts all the time. At uni, I use proper Oxford English, but when I'm around friends who speak English and the setting is casual, I often drift into a bit of a cockney accent. It's the same with German. People usually tell me how strikingly "correct" my German is, but when I talk to someone who clearly talks in a more colloquial accent only, I throw in a bit of Viennese slang (although I'm not very good at that, I must admit).

"Eye expected that! But will continue to post through all the insults thrown at me, its like the rocks thrown at Jesus on the cross......." - KCOOLMUSIQ
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Reply #4 posted 04/10/13 7:22am

imago

Genesia said:

purse

omfg






brick


.

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Reply #5 posted 04/10/13 7:27am

CarrieMpls

Ex-Moderator

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Dave1992 said:

I'm a fan of people who know how and when to use both.

I love it when people have slightly sophisticated accents and simply know their shit, but it also takes a lot of talent and intuition to know when a situation or conversation requires talking in a more colloquial accent, so that the counterpart might feel more comfortable, perhaps.

My accent (both in English and German) shifts all the time. At uni, I use proper Oxford English, but when I'm around friends who speak English and the setting is casual, I often drift into a bit of a cockney accent. It's the same with German. People usually tell me how strikingly "correct" my German is, but when I talk to someone who clearly talks in a more colloquial accent only, I throw in a bit of Viennese slang (although I'm not very good at that, I must admit).

When I hear people shift their accent or way of talking based on who they're talking to it often sounds very affected and frankly quite phony. It can also come off as downright condescending.

Not saying you are, of course. Just sharing how it usually comes off to me.

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Reply #6 posted 04/10/13 7:30am

Cloudbuster

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Reply #7 posted 04/10/13 7:35am

imago

CarrieMpls said:

Dave1992 said:

I'm a fan of people who know how and when to use both.

I love it when people have slightly sophisticated accents and simply know their shit, but it also takes a lot of talent and intuition to know when a situation or conversation requires talking in a more colloquial accent, so that the counterpart might feel more comfortable, perhaps.

My accent (both in English and German) shifts all the time. At uni, I use proper Oxford English, but when I'm around friends who speak English and the setting is casual, I often drift into a bit of a cockney accent. It's the same with German. People usually tell me how strikingly "correct" my German is, but when I talk to someone who clearly talks in a more colloquial accent only, I throw in a bit of Viennese slang (although I'm not very good at that, I must admit).

When I hear people shift their accent or way of talking based on who they're talking to it often sounds very affected and frankly quite phony. It can also come off as downright condescending.

Not saying you are, of course. Just sharing how it usually comes off to me.

I've seen this in real life mostly with my white friends switching into 'black' mode (i guess it's called 'ubran vernacular' now lol ), where all of a sudden tthe white guys emulate the black guys accent and demanor. I always felt this strange tension in the air when it happens, and got turned off buy it. This has happened dozens of times over my life time, though not in the last 10 years or so.

But, I will go into a 'southern' voice mode when back in Alabama, and a more 'street' mode with my friends in Tampa--but, it's not a conciencious thing. It's natural for me in both environments.

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Reply #8 posted 04/10/13 7:36am

imago

Carrie, what does your gaydar tell you about 'Sunny' in the video?

I have appallingly bad skills at picking out the ghey/bi in Asia--they all seem gay to me.

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Reply #9 posted 04/10/13 8:20am

KoolEaze

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CarrieMpls said:

Dave1992 said:

I'm a fan of people who know how and when to use both.

I love it when people have slightly sophisticated accents and simply know their shit, but it also takes a lot of talent and intuition to know when a situation or conversation requires talking in a more colloquial accent, so that the counterpart might feel more comfortable, perhaps.

My accent (both in English and German) shifts all the time. At uni, I use proper Oxford English, but when I'm around friends who speak English and the setting is casual, I often drift into a bit of a cockney accent. It's the same with German. People usually tell me how strikingly "correct" my German is, but when I talk to someone who clearly talks in a more colloquial accent only, I throw in a bit of Viennese slang (although I'm not very good at that, I must admit).

When I hear people shift their accent or way of talking based on who they're talking to it often sounds very affected and frankly quite phony. It can also come off as downright condescending.

Not saying you are, of course. Just sharing how it usually comes off to me.

This video here ( Tarantino interview) falls into that category and is really embarrassing.

http://www.cracked.com/vi...eople.html

laurarichardson doesn´t care about me sad

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #10 posted 04/10/13 8:24am

Dave1992

CarrieMpls said:

Dave1992 said:

I'm a fan of people who know how and when to use both.

I love it when people have slightly sophisticated accents and simply know their shit, but it also takes a lot of talent and intuition to know when a situation or conversation requires talking in a more colloquial accent, so that the counterpart might feel more comfortable, perhaps.

My accent (both in English and German) shifts all the time. At uni, I use proper Oxford English, but when I'm around friends who speak English and the setting is casual, I often drift into a bit of a cockney accent. It's the same with German. People usually tell me how strikingly "correct" my German is, but when I talk to someone who clearly talks in a more colloquial accent only, I throw in a bit of Viennese slang (although I'm not very good at that, I must admit).

When I hear people shift their accent or way of talking based on who they're talking to it often sounds very affected and frankly quite phony. It can also come off as downright condescending.

Not saying you are, of course. Just sharing how it usually comes off to me.



I think it's way more condescending if you continue talking in your educated accent, using fancy words and stuff, when you're talking to someone who clearly is not as educated as you / grew up in a community where these accents/words were not used.

It is natural that speakers adapt their accents to one another and, if done properly and not forcedly, it can make a conversation more natural and help eliminate some (linguistic/cultural/social) barriers.

I guess, with me, half it happens subconsciously, and the other half I do on purpose (for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber).

If the purpose is to try to be "cool" or "educated" (when you usually aren't), then I fully agree with you.
If, however, the only purpose is to simplify the sharing of information and to abolish some sort of barriers then I can't see how it can seem uncomfortable.

"Eye expected that! But will continue to post through all the insults thrown at me, its like the rocks thrown at Jesus on the cross......." - KCOOLMUSIQ
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Reply #11 posted 04/10/13 2:41pm

Lammastide

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Dave1992 said:

CarrieMpls said:

When I hear people shift their accent or way of talking based on who they're talking to it often sounds very affected and frankly quite phony. It can also come off as downright condescending.

Not saying you are, of course. Just sharing how it usually comes off to me.



I think it's way more condescending if you continue talking in your educated accent, using fancy words and stuff, when you're talking to someone who clearly is not as educated as you / grew up in a community where these accents/words were not used.

It is natural that speakers adapt their accents to one another and, if done properly and not forcedly, it can make a conversation more natural and help eliminate some (linguistic/cultural/social) barriers.

I guess, with me, half it happens subconsciously, and the other half I do on purpose (for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber).

If the purpose is to try to be "cool" or "educated" (when you usually aren't), then I fully agree with you.
If, however, the only purpose is to simplify the sharing of information and to abolish some sort of barriers then I can't see how it can seem uncomfortable.

There's been significant currency lately on this sort of thing. Many social scientists call it "coding-switching," and it affects not just accents, but many parts of our linguistics.


What's most interesting to me is: Almost all of us do it, whether we like it or not. Some seem actively open to it or even exaggerate it (see Madonna); others adopt it as a necessity for social mobility (see many ethnic minority communities around the world); and still others, I've recently learned, do it by anthropological default: While we generally retain the accent, if not the broader dialect, with which we speak by our early 20s, apparently we do still unconsciously pick up certain nuances of particular circles with which we spend extended time. One linguist I recently heard suggested that if we were dropped in a completely foreign environment, the speech centers in our brain would begin apprehending -- and on some level appropriating -- local speech patterns even before we could hear others speak. This is because our own spoken communication is a product of tons of things we don't notice, like observed social stratifications, the unconscious mimicking of others' facial and mouth movements, etc., in addition to audible mimicking.

[Edited 4/11/13 16:12pm]

"Be excellent to each other." -Bill and Ted
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Reply #12 posted 04/10/13 3:23pm

Gunsnhalen

I would love to rub his feet.

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce
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Reply #13 posted 04/10/13 3:53pm

Dave1992

Lammastide said:

Dave1992 said:



I think it's way more condescending if you continue talking in your educated accent, using fancy words and stuff, when you're talking to someone who clearly is not as educated as you / grew up in a community where these accents/words were not used.

It is natural that speakers adapt their accents to one another and, if done properly and not forcedly, it can make a conversation more natural and help eliminate some (linguistic/cultural/social) barriers.

I guess, with me, half it happens subconsciously, and the other half I do on purpose (for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber).

If the purpose is to try to be "cool" or "educated" (when you usually aren't), then I fully agree with you.
If, however, the only purpose is to simplify the sharing of information and to abolish some sort of barriers then I can't see how it can seem uncomfortable.

There's been significant currency lately on this sort of thing. Many social scientists call it "coding-switching," and it affects not just accents, but many parts of our linguistics.


What's most interesting to me is: Almost all of us do it, whether we like it or not. Some seem actively open to it or even exaggerate it (see Madonna); others adopt it as a necessity for social mobility (see many ethnic minority communities around the world); and still others, I've recently learned, do it by anthropological default.

While we generally retain the accent, if not the broader dialect, with which we speak by our early 20s, apparently we do unconsciously pick up certain nuances of particular circles with which we spend extended time. One linguist I recently heard suggested that if dropped in a completely foreign environment, the speech centers in our brain would begin apprehending -- and on some level appropriating -- local speech patterns even before we could hear others speak. This is because spoken communication is a product of tons of things we don't even notice, like observed social stratifications, the morphology of our mouths and noses, etc.

[Edited 4/10/13 14:48pm]

Exactly.

"Eye expected that! But will continue to post through all the insults thrown at me, its like the rocks thrown at Jesus on the cross......." - KCOOLMUSIQ
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Reply #14 posted 04/10/13 4:42pm

tinaz

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Dave1992 said:

CarrieMpls said:

When I hear people shift their accent or way of talking based on who they're talking to it often sounds very affected and frankly quite phony. It can also come off as downright condescending.

Not saying you are, of course. Just sharing how it usually comes off to me.



I think it's way more condescending if you continue talking in your educated accent, using fancy words and stuff, when you're talking to someone who clearly is not as educated as you / grew up in a community where these accents/words were not used.

It is natural that speakers adapt their accents to one another and, if done properly and not forcedly, it can make a conversation more natural and help eliminate some (linguistic/cultural/social) barriers.

I guess, with me, half it happens subconsciously, and the other half I do on purpose (for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber).

If the purpose is to try to be "cool" or "educated" (when you usually aren't), then I fully agree with you.
If, however, the only purpose is to simplify the sharing of information and to abolish some sort of barriers then I can't see how it can seem uncomfortable.

Dave,


Just because one is a plumber DOES NOT mean they are uneducated and you need to "dumb" it down for them...

Most plumbers make more money than any fool who who can go to Uni and cant find a job once they get out...

~~~~~ Oh that voice...incredible....there should be a musical instrument called George Michael... ~~~~~
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Reply #15 posted 04/10/13 4:47pm

RenHoek

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moderator

A working class Hero is something to be ~ Lennon
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Reply #16 posted 04/10/13 4:50pm

violectrica

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neutral you mean like when yuppies go to Starbucks and order a "kwasan". I am thinking, get over yourself, we aren't in Paris. This is America and we pronounce croissant "kresant". lol It sticks out like a sore thumb becaus the rest of the words AROUND the sentence are pronounce in regular non-french sounding accents..,

Yet these same pretentious people wont also switch to another accent when saying other foreign import words. Lame. They don't pronounce "guerilla" as a Spanish speaker would for example. If you have to pick and choose, your doing it wrong.

Could you imagine walking around all day talking and switching up accents based on the origin word's nationality?

Trufax: My daddy told me the he and mom went to Purple Rain in a Seattle Theater. They were so moved by the movie that they went into the record store and bought the album immediately. They went home and conceived me.
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Reply #17 posted 04/10/13 5:26pm

Dave1992

tinaz said:

Dave1992 said:



I think it's way more condescending if you continue talking in your educated accent, using fancy words and stuff, when you're talking to someone who clearly is not as educated as you / grew up in a community where these accents/words were not used.

It is natural that speakers adapt their accents to one another and, if done properly and not forcedly, it can make a conversation more natural and help eliminate some (linguistic/cultural/social) barriers.

I guess, with me, half it happens subconsciously, and the other half I do on purpose (for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber).

If the purpose is to try to be "cool" or "educated" (when you usually aren't), then I fully agree with you.
If, however, the only purpose is to simplify the sharing of information and to abolish some sort of barriers then I can't see how it can seem uncomfortable.

Dave,


Just because one is a plumber DOES NOT mean they are uneducated and you need to "dumb" it down for them...

Most plumbers make more money than any fool who who can go to Uni and cant find a job once they get out...

Tina,

Just because someone is a child it does not mean they won't understand loanwords. And just because someone is a grandfather it does not mean they won't understand slang. I was merely using figurative speech to illustrate my argument...

But, besides all that, conerning your last point: a person's salary has nothing to do with their speech-competence / vocabulary...

"Eye expected that! But will continue to post through all the insults thrown at me, its like the rocks thrown at Jesus on the cross......." - KCOOLMUSIQ
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Reply #18 posted 04/10/13 5:28pm

tinaz

avatar

Dave1992 said:

tinaz said:

Dave,


Just because one is a plumber DOES NOT mean they are uneducated and you need to "dumb" it down for them...

Most plumbers make more money than any fool who who can go to Uni and cant find a job once they get out...

Tina,

Just because someone is a child it does not mean they won't understand loanwords. And just because someone is a grandfather it does not mean they won't understand slang. I was merely using figurative speech to illustrate my argument...

But, besides all that, conerning your last point: a person's salary has nothing to do with their speech-competence / vocabulary...

If you say so Dave..

~~~~~ Oh that voice...incredible....there should be a musical instrument called George Michael... ~~~~~
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Reply #19 posted 04/10/13 5:30pm

Dave1992

violectrica said:

neutral you mean like when yuppies go to Starbucks and order a "kwasan". I am thinking, get over yourself, we aren't in Paris. This is America and we pronounce croissant "kresant". lol It sticks out like a sore thumb becaus the rest of the words AROUND the sentence are pronounce in regular non-french sounding accents..,

Yet these same pretentious people wont also switch to another accent when saying other foreign import words. Lame. They don't pronounce "guerilla" as a Spanish speaker would for example. If you have to pick and choose, your doing it wrong.

Could you imagine walking around all day talking and switching up accents based on the origin word's nationality?



Funnily, that wouldn't even be the "correct" French pronunciation. lol


It's interesting, though. I didn't know so many French loanwords have undergone some kind of English pronunciation change already. In England, I've come across this phenomenon where words have only become "slightly" English ("faux pas", for instance).

In contrast to that, German has many French loanwords and we pronounce them as the French would, with absolutely no German "twist" or change (croissant, restaurant, déja-vu etc).

"Eye expected that! But will continue to post through all the insults thrown at me, its like the rocks thrown at Jesus on the cross......." - KCOOLMUSIQ
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Reply #20 posted 04/10/13 5:32pm

Dave1992

tinaz said:

Dave1992 said:

Tina,

Just because someone is a child it does not mean they won't understand loanwords. And just because someone is a grandfather it does not mean they won't understand slang. I was merely using figurative speech to illustrate my argument...

But, besides all that, conerning your last point: a person's salary has nothing to do with their speech-competence / vocabulary...

If you say so Dave..



Tell me, what doesn't sit well with you? You don't seem to agree with what I am saying, or with my explanation for why I used these "striking" and "typical" generalisations... I'm curious!

"Eye expected that! But will continue to post through all the insults thrown at me, its like the rocks thrown at Jesus on the cross......." - KCOOLMUSIQ
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Reply #21 posted 04/10/13 5:42pm

tinaz

avatar

Dave1992 said:

tinaz said:

If you say so Dave..



Tell me, what doesn't sit well with you? You don't seem to agree with what I am saying, or with my explanation for why I used these "striking" and "typical" generalisations... I'm curious!



I get what your saying, I really do... you just arent getting what im saying and its frustrating to me.


I really am to tired to get into anything that is going to take an effort for me to type..


kiss2

~~~~~ Oh that voice...incredible....there should be a musical instrument called George Michael... ~~~~~
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Reply #22 posted 04/11/13 6:31am

CarrieMpls

Ex-Moderator

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Lammastide said:

Dave1992 said:



I think it's way more condescending if you continue talking in your educated accent, using fancy words and stuff, when you're talking to someone who clearly is not as educated as you / grew up in a community where these accents/words were not used.

It is natural that speakers adapt their accents to one another and, if done properly and not forcedly, it can make a conversation more natural and help eliminate some (linguistic/cultural/social) barriers.

I guess, with me, half it happens subconsciously, and the other half I do on purpose (for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber).

If the purpose is to try to be "cool" or "educated" (when you usually aren't), then I fully agree with you.
If, however, the only purpose is to simplify the sharing of information and to abolish some sort of barriers then I can't see how it can seem uncomfortable.

There's been significant currency lately on this sort of thing. Many social scientists call it "coding-switching," and it affects not just accents, but many parts of our linguistics.


What's most interesting to me is: Almost all of us do it, whether we like it or not. Some seem actively open to it or even exaggerate it (see Madonna); others adopt it as a necessity for social mobility (see many ethnic minority communities around the world); and still others, I've recently learned, do it by anthropological default.

While we generally retain the accent, if not the broader dialect, with which we speak by our early 20s, apparently we do still unconsciously pick up certain nuances of particular circles with which we spend extended time. One linguist I recently heard suggested that if we were dropped in a completely foreign environment, the speech centers in our brain would begin apprehending -- and on some level appropriating -- local speech patterns even before we could hear others speak. This is because spoken communication is a product of tons of things we don't notice, like observed social stratifications, the unconscious mimicking of facial and mouth movements, etc., in addition to audible mimicking.

[Edited 4/10/13 17:41pm]

After this thread I read an article about codeswitching. lol In the article it made more sense to me than what Dave is expressing, but I also give him the benefit of the doubt.

The concern, for me, is being yourself authentically. In the article I read, it was more a person who grew up with different influences (one at home, one at school) so he would shift depending on the company. In both of theose circumstances though he was being himself, just different facets. But what I'm talking about is people who very intentionally change how they speak when around others, and it's more their perception of how the otehr person expects them to be, trying hard to fit in, that is the issue. When I have witnessed this it just comes off awkward and uncomfortable. Maybe it's just me.



Certainly when I've been immersed in other cultures and I find myself enjoying the new cadences and rythms of language and wonder what I'm picking up without noticing. But this is different.

[Edited 4/11/13 6:33am]

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Reply #23 posted 04/11/13 6:37am

CarrieMpls

Ex-Moderator

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imago said:

Carrie, what does your gaydar tell you about 'Sunny' in the video?

I have appallingly bad skills at picking out the ghey/bi in Asia--they all seem gay to me.

My gaydar is all messed up these days. I don't trust it anymore.

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Reply #24 posted 04/11/13 6:41am

Dave1992

CarrieMpls said:

Lammastide said:

There's been significant currency lately on this sort of thing. Many social scientists call it "coding-switching," and it affects not just accents, but many parts of our linguistics.


What's most interesting to me is: Almost all of us do it, whether we like it or not. Some seem actively open to it or even exaggerate it (see Madonna); others adopt it as a necessity for social mobility (see many ethnic minority communities around the world); and still others, I've recently learned, do it by anthropological default.

While we generally retain the accent, if not the broader dialect, with which we speak by our early 20s, apparently we do still unconsciously pick up certain nuances of particular circles with which we spend extended time. One linguist I recently heard suggested that if we were dropped in a completely foreign environment, the speech centers in our brain would begin apprehending -- and on some level appropriating -- local speech patterns even before we could hear others speak. This is because spoken communication is a product of tons of things we don't notice, like observed social stratifications, the unconscious mimicking of facial and mouth movements, etc., in addition to audible mimicking.

[Edited 4/10/13 17:41pm]

After this thread I read an article about codeswitching. lol In the article it made more sense to me than what Dave is expressing, but I also give him the benefit of the doubt.

The concern, for me, is being yourself authentically. In the article I read, it was more a person who grew up with different influences (one at home, one at school) so he would shift depending on the company. In both of theose circumstances though he was being himself, just different facets. But what I'm talking about is people who very intentionally change how they speak when around others, and it's more their perception of how the otehr person expects them to be, trying hard to fit in, that is the issue. When I have witnessed this it just comes off awkward and uncomfortable. Maybe it's just me.



Certainly when I've been immersed in other cultures and I find myself enjoying the new cadences and rythms of language and wonder what I'm picking up without noticing. But this is different.

[Edited 4/11/13 6:33am]



You have the wrong picture of it. It's not about making yourself feel comfortable and "fitting in", it's about making communicationg easier for the other person you are talking to.

Here, what I've written before:

"...for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber"

It's as simple as that, really. No "trying to belong to a group of people" or some shit like that, it's simply making communication as efficient and successful as possible.

And, apart from that: what does "being oneself" really mean? If someone only has one accent, one style of speech they can naturally use, they'll find it difficult to get along with different kinds of people. Just because someone masters different accents, languages, sets of vocabulary etc., it doesn't mean they are lying or trying to belong somewhere they don't.

"Eye expected that! But will continue to post through all the insults thrown at me, its like the rocks thrown at Jesus on the cross......." - KCOOLMUSIQ
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Reply #25 posted 04/11/13 6:53am

CarrieMpls

Ex-Moderator

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Well certainly speaking other languages when it is warranted is a given. And paying attention to vocabulary when speaking to very small children makes sense. For older children I wouldn’t worry as they should be learning something by hearing a bigger vocabulary.

The rest? I guess I don’t see how changing the way I speak will help anyone understand me. I can’t imagine using words my plumber wouldn’t understand as we’re going to be talking about a sink or a pipe or something. Chances are he’s going to have to explain his vocabulary to me (as I’m NOT a plumber).

I guess I just don’t understand a circumstance in which I’d change how I generally communicate. It’s foreign to me.

[Edited 4/11/13 6:54am]

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Reply #26 posted 04/11/13 7:33am

TD3

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Dave1992 said:

CarrieMpls said:

After this thread I read an article about codeswitching. lol In the article it made more sense to me than what Dave is expressing, but I also give him the benefit of the doubt.

The concern, for me, is being yourself authentically. In the article I read, it was more a person who grew up with different influences (one at home, one at school) so he would shift depending on the company. In both of theose circumstances though he was being himself, just different facets. But what I'm talking about is people who very intentionally change how they speak when around others, and it's more their perception of how the otehr person expects them to be, trying hard to fit in, that is the issue. When I have witnessed this it just comes off awkward and uncomfortable. Maybe it's just me.



Certainly when I've been immersed in other cultures and I find myself enjoying the new cadences and rythms of language and wonder what I'm picking up without noticing. But this is different.

[Edited 4/11/13 6:33am]



You have the wrong picture of it. It's not about making yourself feel comfortable and "fitting in", it's about making communicationg easier for the other person you are talking to.

Here, what I've written before:

"...for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber"

It's as simple as that, really. No "trying to belong to a group of people" or some shit like that, it's simply making communication as efficient and successful as possible.

And, apart from that: what does "being oneself" really mean? If someone only has one accent, one style of speech they can naturally use, they'll find it difficult to get along with different kinds of people. Just because someone masters different accents, languages, sets of vocabulary etc., it doesn't mean they are lying or trying to belong somewhere they don't.

I agree with Dave. There's always been a Black dialect/slang vs the King's English... I had to know both. Ultimately what you are trying to do is communicate with others, find common understanding and exchange ideas. Even in the professional/public realm you need to cater your language so everyone has a clear understanding of what you're trying to say. Among colleagues speaking to one another in legalese is expected and proper. If you are speaking to a group of laymen who probably would understand all the legal terms you are using; why forge ahead with communicating in that way in which people wouldn't understand what you said?

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Reply #27 posted 04/11/13 7:56am

Genesia

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CarrieMpls said:

Well certainly speaking other languages when it is warranted is a given. And paying attention to vocabulary when speaking to very small children makes sense. For older children I wouldn’t worry as they should be learning something by hearing a bigger vocabulary.

The rest? I guess I don’t see how changing the way I speak will help anyone understand me. I can’t imagine using words my plumber wouldn’t understand as we’re going to be talking about a sink or a pipe or something. Chances are he’s going to have to explain his vocabulary to me (as I’m NOT a plumber).

I guess I just don’t understand a circumstance in which I’d change how I generally communicate. It’s foreign to me.

Well put.

Pre-emptively changing the way you speak because you think someone isn't going to understand you is the worst kind of snobbery. At the age of 9, I had a larger vocabulary than most adults. If some grown-up had talked down to me then, I'd've looked at them like whofarted

And, as Tina said, the fact that someone chose to work with his hands for a living doesn't mean s/he is dumb. As an example, my dad never went to college - he was drafted into the military at 18 and needed to start making a living as soon as his hitch was up. He started as an auto mechanic, then worked his way into sales, and ultimately owned his own leasing company. He came from nothing (his father worked for the county highway department and his mother worked as a cook) and retired on over a million bucks. "Uneducated"? In the traditional sense of the word, perhaps. Stupid and in need of "simple" communication? Not hardly.

Although, I suppose if your "educated language" consists entirely of intellectual mumbo jumbo and bullshit, you might want to change the way you speak - lest the stupes you're talking to laugh in your face.

I mean if he did have sex he would break every rule Jehova's have regarding premarital sex so Prince is really just friends with them all anyway.
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Reply #28 posted 04/11/13 8:14am

Serious

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Dave1992 said:

CarrieMpls said:

After this thread I read an article about codeswitching. lol In the article it made more sense to me than what Dave is expressing, but I also give him the benefit of the doubt.

The concern, for me, is being yourself authentically. In the article I read, it was more a person who grew up with different influences (one at home, one at school) so he would shift depending on the company. In both of theose circumstances though he was being himself, just different facets. But what I'm talking about is people who very intentionally change how they speak when around others, and it's more their perception of how the otehr person expects them to be, trying hard to fit in, that is the issue. When I have witnessed this it just comes off awkward and uncomfortable. Maybe it's just me.



Certainly when I've been immersed in other cultures and I find myself enjoying the new cadences and rythms of language and wonder what I'm picking up without noticing. But this is different.

[Edited 4/11/13 6:33am]



You have the wrong picture of it. It's not about making yourself feel comfortable and "fitting in", it's about making communicationg easier for the other person you are talking to.

Here, what I've written before:

"...for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber"

It's as simple as that, really. No "trying to belong to a group of people" or some shit like that, it's simply making communication as efficient and successful as possible.

And, apart from that: what does "being oneself" really mean? If someone only has one accent, one style of speech they can naturally use, they'll find it difficult to get along with different kinds of people. Just because someone masters different accents, languages, sets of vocabulary etc., it doesn't mean they are lying or trying to belong somewhere they don't.

I don't think it's about wanting to belong to a group but about how I would make the other person feel. I talk pretty much the same no matter if I talk to my plumber, my doctor, my over 80 year old mum, a child or to you lol. I just switch between German and English depending who I am talking to. And contrary to what you say it is very easy for me to get along with all kind of people wink.
For me it would feel as if I am judging the other person if I see the need to adapt to their way of speaking to make the conversation easier for them. People who do that come across as not natural and arrogant very easily. Children love to ask questions and I am more than willing to explain certain words they might not have heard before. And there is nothing more degrading IMO than using not proper more simple grammar usually combined with using "du" instead of "sie" towards somebody who is not perfect in German. I never ever do that. People understand me just fine the way I talk to them, no need to "downgrade" or "upgrade" my way of talking in any way. And it's quite easy to get it if a certain way of speaking might indeed be a problem for somebody I am talking to.
The only exception is if I have to use special terms like when I talk to a lawyer and use certain latin words for example or if I need to give a perfectly educated impression towards somebody for certain reasons. Or if somebody who is not very educated is an asshole and I use words on purpose who that person might not be familiar with to give him/her the feeling I am superior. I also talk pretty much the same to all my friends no matter if they are collegue graduates with a career in law or medicine or cleaning women, no matter if the talk "Hochdeutsch" like I do or use slang. Apart from the fact that my Viennese accent sucks and usually makes people laugh as my pronounciation is kinda funny I could easily switch between more "simple" kind of talking when talking to a child or plumber to use your example and a more "educated style" like when I switch between German and English, but I avoid to do that as I would be afraid to give the child or plumber the feeling that I look down on them and consider them too stupid to understand what I am saying. I cannot stand adults using baby language talking to babies or small children for example. Neither children nor plumbers are stupid, so why would I treat them as if they were confused ?

With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A....
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Reply #29 posted 04/11/13 8:15am

Serious

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CarrieMpls said:

Well certainly speaking other languages when it is warranted is a given. And paying attention to vocabulary when speaking to very small children makes sense. For older children I wouldn’t worry as they should be learning something by hearing a bigger vocabulary.

The rest? I guess I don’t see how changing the way I speak will help anyone understand me. I can’t imagine using words my plumber wouldn’t understand as we’re going to be talking about a sink or a pipe or something. Chances are he’s going to have to explain his vocabulary to me (as I’m NOT a plumber).

I guess I just don’t understand a circumstance in which I’d change how I generally communicate. It’s foreign to me.

[Edited 4/11/13 6:54am]

I totally agree with everything you said!

With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A....
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