catpark said:

The passive approach is the best way.

I had two different incidences in the past couple of years where 2 people at separate times became violent and agressive towards me, no way am i going to fight back people that are violent pyschos, unstable and unpredictible, your playing with fire, and theres chances of you getting seriously hurt or killed. one scary part of one of the incidences the person was meant to be a friend and ended up being very violent on me and the other was a tall broad male stranger who i thought was carrying a knife.

Real life incidences and online attacks is completely different no forces you to be online if you dont like it switch it off and anyone can act brave or be extra nice behind there screen its all bs, its when you really meet people you see the truth.

So your choice is NOT fighting back? Just stand there and HOPE they don't hurt you?

i don't really have the stomach to read through this thread.

violence against anyone is wrong.

i don't care if you agree with transgenderism or not but knowing many in my life who are trans and have faced this themselves or their own self hatred and trying to kill themselves it brought a tear to my eye and makes me realize how privliaged i am to live in the gay bubble i do and how much ground still needs to be made towards full equality and acceptance.

mine or someone else's choices on how they live their lives has no affect or effect on how you live yours. i will never understand the need for this nor anyone's negative action. if you don't like it keep your mouth shut. we face enough hate, intolerence and bigtory without having you to ad to it.

now after watching this, do you still honestly believe people would willingly chose to live a life where there is the constant threat of being killed because of who you are? if you do than i guess you'll answer to your maker one day.

thankfully McD's has taken action against the employees and the police have arrested the girls.

love and light people love and light

love4oneanother is the only way

http://www.bilerico.com/2011/04/mcdonalds_beating_updates_victim_identified_camera.php

SonOfSoul said:

catpark said:

The passive approach is the best way.

I had two different incidences in the past couple of years where 2 people at separate times became violent and agressive towards me, no way am i going to fight back people that are violent pyschos, unstable and unpredictible, your playing with fire, and theres chances of you getting seriously hurt or killed. one scary part of one of the incidences the person was meant to be a friend and ended up being very violent on me and the other was a tall broad male stranger who i thought was carrying a knife.

Real life incidences and online attacks is completely different no forces you to be online if you dont like it switch it off and anyone can act brave or be extra nice behind there screen its all bs, its when you really meet people you see the truth.

So your choice is NOT fighting back? Just stand there and HOPE they don't hurt you?

A guy switched on me in the street calling me f'ing bitch slag..all the names under the sun and he was right up in my face like he wanted to fight me he had so much anger, i dont know what hes capable of doing and he could of had a knife, im not gonna be stupid and take any risks, I just shut up and just quickly thought of a way to get out of the situation as soon as he turned his head I ran while still watching him. As for the ex-friend she turned psyhco on me i didnt do anything, why should i fight if i dont want to? i hate any form of violence. I'm certainly not going to fight over other peoples mental issues, i will only fight to save someones life.

SonOfSoul said:

babynoz said:

I know that. Any number of claims be made but a finding of liability involves a lot of mitigating factors. I personally wish the employees would have done something but are they required to?

As far as a safe environment goes, the girls may try to claim the same thing regarding who can and cannot access the restroom. It wouldn't surprise me.

Yep, the girls can claim they felt they were in danger with a man being in the ladies room.

They can take this route. Fortunately, though, it won't work. One has a right under most law I know to defend him/herself. One doesn't have a right to beat the stew out of someone who, as captured on video, doesn't demonstrate a proportionate threat, leave the premises, and return to beat the stew out of them again.

catpark said:

SonOfSoul said:

So your choice is NOT fighting back? Just stand there and HOPE they don't hurt you?

A guy switched on me in the street calling me f'ing bitch slag..all the names under the sun and he was right up in my face like he wanted to fight me he had so much anger, i dont know what hes capable of doing and he could of had a knife, im not gonna be stupid and take any risks, I just shut up and just quickly thought of a way to get out of the situation as soon as he turned his head I ran while still watching him. As for the ex-friend she turned psyhco on me i didnt do anything, why should i fight if i dont want to? i hate any form of violence. I'm certainly not going to fight over other peoples mental issues, i will only fight to save someones life.

Oh ok, well then say that. Your comment came off as you just doing absolutely nothing, not even running.

Lammastide said:

SonOfSoul said:

Yep, the girls can claim they felt they were in danger with a man being in the ladies room.

They can take this route. Fortunately, though, it won't work. One has a right under most law I know to defend him/herself. One doesn't have a right to beat the stew out of someone who, as captured on video, doesn't demonstrate a proportionate threat, leave the premises, and return to beat the stew out of them again.

Very true. Once the threat of danger is gone, they can't sit there and wail on the person.

SonOfSoul said:

catpark said:

A guy switched on me in the street calling me f'ing bitch slag..all the names under the sun and he was right up in my face like he wanted to fight me he had so much anger, i dont know what hes capable of doing and he could of had a knife, im not gonna be stupid and take any risks, I just shut up and just quickly thought of a way to get out of the situation as soon as he turned his head I ran while still watching him. As for the ex-friend she turned psyhco on me i didnt do anything, why should i fight if i dont want to? i hate any form of violence. I'm certainly not going to fight over other peoples mental issues, i will only fight to save someones life.

Oh ok, well then say that. Your comment came off as you just doing absolutely nothing, not even running.

Being passive in violent situations and doing nothing is different. I think it was self-explanatory.

catpark said:

SonOfSoul said:

Oh ok, well then say that. Your comment came off as you just doing absolutely nothing, not even running.

Being passive in violent situations and doing nothing is different. I think it was self-explanatory.

No, re-read what you wrote. You made no effort in explaining that you'd run instead of fight.

victim speaks out

http://www.baltimoresun.c...6656.story

SonOfSoul said:

uPtoWnNY said:

As another orger stated, it also depends what neighborhood you're in. Try being a hero in parts of NYC(especially on the subways), you take the risk of getting sliced or shot. Too many crazy mfers here, and you don't know what they're capable of. Would I take that risk for a family member or a friend? Of course, but for a stranger, my first option is to call the cops. Getting in the middle of shit would be a last resort.

Folks like to get online and say they'd do this and that. It's a whole different story in real life, when you're facing dudes bigger than you and possibly armed.

So damn true.

So y'all would sit and just watch like it's just a show on the TV. Cause that's what a lot of those folk did.

I said it's not the smartest thing to a lot of folk and that you'd be likely to be hurt by getting involved. If not getting hurts makes it ok to watch someone get their head kicked in and y'all can live with that, hey...that's you.

And the whole bullshit about the girls feeling danger with a man (not a man, trans btw) in the bathroom is beyond fuckin ridiculous.

johnart said:

SonOfSoul said:

So damn true.

So y'all would sit and just watch like it's just a show on the TV. Cause that's what a lot of those folk did.

I said it's not the smartest thing to a lot of folk and that you'd be likely to be hurt by getting involved. If not getting hurts makes it ok to watch someone get their head kicked in and y'all can live with that, hey...that's you.

Where did I state I'd stand there and watch? Show me. You can't. Somehow you made that up, and for whatever reason I have no idea. No one said that.

johnart said:

And the whole bullshit about the girls feeling danger with a man (not a man, trans btw) in the bathroom is beyond fuckin ridiculous.

You can say that now after you've heard Polis' side, but there was no way of you knowing that before you heard her side. You had zero proof either way, just like the rest of us. All I said was that it could've been a factor.

SonOfSoul said:

johnart said:

And the whole bullshit about the girls feeling danger with a man (not a man, trans btw) in the bathroom is beyond fuckin ridiculous.

You can say that now after you've heard Polis' side, but there was no way of you knowing that before you heard her side. You had zero proof either way, just like the rest of us. All I said was that it could've been a factor.

Huh? The employees knew she was trans. Are you ignoring the status update the guy who filmed it made? He was an employee. He knew it was a transwoman ("not a woman, a man is woman's clothing" is how he described her, paraphrasing). They ordered her out of the bathroom BECAUSE their perspective was that she was born a man and that made her a man and men should not be in the ladies' bathroom (which they shouldn't).

You don't need to know her side to be aware of these facts. One of the key people involved admitted it.

SonOfSoul said:

Lammastide said:

They can take this route. Fortunately, though, it won't work. One has a right under most law I know to defend him/herself. One doesn't have a right to beat the stew out of someone who, as captured on video, doesn't demonstrate a proportionate threat, leave the premises, and return to beat the stew out of them again.

Very true. Once the threat of danger is gone, they can't sit there and wail on the person.

What threat of danger?

Spinlight said:

SonOfSoul said:

You can say that now after you've heard Polis' side, but there was no way of you knowing that before you heard her side. You had zero proof either way, just like the rest of us. All I said was that it could've been a factor.

Huh? The employees knew she was trans. Are you ignoring the status update the guy who filmed it made? He was an employee. He knew it was a transwoman ("not a woman, a man is woman's clothing" is how he described her, paraphrasing). They ordered her out of the bathroom BECAUSE their perspective was that she was born a man and that made her a man and men should not be in the ladies' bathroom (which they shouldn't).

You don't need to know her side to be aware of these facts. One of the key people involved admitted it.

So you're saying that you knew Polis posed no danger to the women as a "man in the ladies room" BEFORE you heard her side of the story?

Spinlight said:

SonOfSoul said:

Very true. Once the threat of danger is gone, they can't sit there and wail on the person.

What threat of danger?

By law, if the person no longer poses any danger, then the beating becomes an attack rather than self-defense. That was said from a law point of view.

Spinlight said:

paintedlady said:

Really? People do this on the org too? Where? When? Who? Why?

who exactly is justifying that shit? WTF

The group mentality of ganging up on someone happens all the time on the org. When a person of perceived difference is seen in an ostensibly sensitive situation or vulnerable place, people use the opportunity to exploit their weakness and abuse them. And that's exactly what I gather from this video - people repelled by something/someone who is different and everyone just kinda aimlessly staring around like it was supposed to be that way and no one should help.

That behavior is then justified by saying the person begged for it, warranted it, etc.

These ways of thinking are pervasive - they don't reside wholly within people who hang out in a McDonald's as opposed to on the internet.

forget it...not worth it.....

[Edited 4/23/11 22:44pm]

IMO, wearing a skirt does not qualify someone to be called "she"

paintedlady said:

johnart said:

Why didn't she at least fight back??

I've only watched a few seconds (not sure if I can see the whole thing) and she's already kicked to the head several times.

You've in the past mentioned about folk not being able to relate enough to chime in on something they are not/know nothing of...You're not a trans woman, but you're feeling for this poor lady, no?

Lammie mentioned understanding how someone might be afraid to jump in...I'm sorry, I cannot, not in the least...I don't think I could stand by, no matter how much I was shitting my pants, and watch someone get their head kicked in. To watch that and not help is downright un-human and those bitches are fuckin savages! Fuck them. Thank god for that older lady. My heart just broke watching how the trans woman wraps her arm around her leg.

Not to mention, had the victim truly fought back,they would've said it's like a dude hitting women whah wah wah...because that's just how fowl raggedy trifflin trash like these two savage bitches are.

Transgender? Who cares! She is a woman!!! getting her ass beat the fuck up and she is just there, alert still in a corner.... those bitches walk away, you RUN! Will she still stand there if a chick walked up to her with a fucking machete?

You say I don't give a fuck about her situation??? How could you even ask me that, you think I'm some cold fucking animal?

Did she just get out of surgery? Could she not move? Enlighten me please.. because where I come from... gay, straight, punk-ass, brave, stupid, smart, black , white.....

you run or you get killed!!! .... did she think someone would help her? Is that why she stood there?

I don't get it... shit I grew up in a fucked up neighborhood and still live in the damn hood... I guess I've seen to much to stay. I run, no shame in it!

Do not read that like I do not empathize, I am just wondering when the instinct kicks in that we all have to protect yourself from harm and run away or hide.... something.

I watched the entire thing... its one thing to get beat once, I have NEVER seen attackers walk away, make a phone call, smoke a cigarette, drink some water... and come back, and the victim is STILL there!

She could have been killed John... killed! Not beaten.... actually killed.

I have seen this happen before, I have seen a woman killed before... I was a kid and I could not help... you have to flee... you have to...

Putting on a skirt or having a dick surgically removed does not make one a woman.

i have yet to watch the video but I will say this...I have been in a bathroom when a very badly put together tranny walked in. I was very afraid...who the fuck wants to be in a bathroom with a large strange man.

He was standing between me and the door when I exited my own bathroom stall , and my young daughter was in another stall. What kind of shit is that? I felt VERY unsafe...and it pissed me off that he brought his manly ass into a womans room. My hand went into my purse and I had something to spray in his eyes if it went there. That shit should be illegal. just because somebody feels like a woman in their head and and puts on a dress, they are not women. I'm sorry if some men have those issues, but I shouldn't have to fear for my wellbeing or my child's like that. After I got my child out of there, i called security. Fuck that....men do not belong in women's bathrooms...thats creepy as hell.

Seriously...had that "man" said something gruff to me for eyeballing him after I came out of the stall, I would have sprayed his eyes and did whatever was necessary until I got my daughter out of there. Fuck that. I dont care if its not popular......putting on a skirt does not make one a woman, and it is very scary to see a man (who does not belong) in a ladies room.

so...now I guess I'll watch the video and see why people are defending this intruder.....

I dont know which is more sad, the incident or the ignorance on here.

Never blame the victim.

well...looks like he seriously got his ass beat.

They did call the police, and people have many reasons for not jumping into fights. I wont lie...I wouldn't have helped, but I would have called for help so that nobody got killed. We dont know what happened in that restroom before he got his ass beat. Folks shouldn't be so quick to play the hate crime card.........

Like it or not, his ass didn't belong in a women's bathroom, particularly if he still appears to be a man.

^So by your logic if a female uses a Men's Room and 2 men rape her, then its HER fault. Lovely.

lazycrockett said:

I dont know which is more sad, the incident or the ignorance on here.

Never blame the victim.

It's pathetic for sure, but once again...not surprising in the least.

johnart said:

victim speaks out

http://www.baltimoresun.c...6656.story

Chrissy is right, it's definitely a hate crime. Not only should she press charges, she should definitely filed some lawsuits however possible.

StillGotIt said:

well...looks like he seriously got his ass beat.

They did call the police, and people have many reasons for not jumping into fights. I wont lie...I wouldn't have helped, but I would have called for help so that nobody got killed. We dont know what happened in that restroom before he got his ass beat. Folks shouldn't be so quick to play the hate crime card.........

Like it or not, his ass didn't belong in a women's bathroom, particularly if he still appears to be a man.

1) She doesn't "appear to be a man" and there's video footage of an interview if you'd like to learn something.

2) Whether you like it or not, she was totally within her right to go to the bathroom.

lazycrockett said:

^So by your logic if a female uses a Men's Room and 2 men rape her, then its HER fault. Lovely.

Why are you trying to put words into my mouth? Where did I type such a scenario? I said he didn't belong there. I didn't say the attack was his fault, and I didn't say he deserved to have his ass beat. I dont know who started that fight or why it started, I wasn't in the bathroom.

Even without the crazy fight, my opinion is that if he is a man, he didn't belong in that bathroom.

SonOfSoul said:

Spinlight said:

Huh? The employees knew she was trans. Are you ignoring the status update the guy who filmed it made? He was an employee. He knew it was a transwoman ("not a woman, a man is woman's clothing" is how he described her, paraphrasing). They ordered her out of the bathroom BECAUSE their perspective was that she was born a man and that made her a man and men should not be in the ladies' bathroom (which they shouldn't).

You don't need to know her side to be aware of these facts. One of the key people involved admitted it.

So you're saying that you knew Polis posed no danger to the women as a "man in the ladies room" BEFORE you heard her side of the story?

I didn't see Polis' video until right before I made this post in reply to you. Read back a few pages and you can see exactly how people felt about the situation.

SonOfSoul said:

Spinlight said:

What threat of danger?

By law, if the person no longer poses any danger, then the beating becomes an attack rather than self-defense. That was said from a law point of view.

Ahh, gotcha.