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Thread started 10/06/21 7:46pm

Phase3

Is Elvis over-rated?

My grandpa would be pissed if he knew I was posting this thread.Being that he is as crazy over Elvis as I am of Prince
I realize that Elvis is called the king of rock n roll.He had a amazing voice.
But the other day while doing research I found a list of all of Elvis'songs and unless i missed it,none of the songs were written entirely by Elvis himself
I don't think he played a instrument either.I have seen him onstage with a guitar but do not remember him playing it
It's only because of elvis amazing voice,that i don't put him in the same category as justin bieber
Maybe i am wrong but is Elvis over rated and not as great as most say he is?
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Reply #1 posted 10/06/21 8:40pm

alphastreet

Yes he’s the world famous appropriator. But he was handsome and had a unique voice though I’m not a fan
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Reply #2 posted 10/06/21 8:40pm

Graycap23

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On a scale of 1 to 10.........about a 3.

I'm fan but just being realistic.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #3 posted 10/06/21 9:35pm

TrivialPursuit

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Out of 10, I'd give him a 9 for showmanship, and a 3 for actual talent.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #4 posted 10/07/21 12:26am

SantanaMaitrey
a

He wasn't the best musician and he knew it. But the way he captured the spirit of rock and roll, the way he became a sex symbol... He was second to none. Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly were better songwriters, Little Richard was a better singer, but no one appealed to the imagination like Elvis. As we know, rock and roll isn't just about music, it's also about image. Elvis had the looks and te movies Without him, rock and roll would not have become as big as it did. He was the right guy at the right moment.
If you take any of this seriously, you're a bigger fool than I am.
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Reply #5 posted 10/07/21 1:33am

EmmaMcG

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He was the best in the world at what he did. He never claimed to be a songwriter or a musician of any merit. That wasn't his job. He was a showman. And a fantastic vocalist to boot. He was essentially an early version of Michael Jackson. Both are world class live performers. Both had amazing voices. Neither of them would be considered musicians of any kind - EDITED TO REMOVE REFERENCES TO THE FACT THAT MICHAEL JACKSON DIDN'T WRITE ALL OF HIS OWN SONGS BY HIMSELF TO APPEASE THE PEDANTS ON THE ORG AND PREVENT FURTHER DERAILMENT OF THE THREAD.
[Edited 10/8/21 11:16am]
[Edited 10/8/21 11:17am]
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Reply #6 posted 10/07/21 1:37am

PatrickS77

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EmmaMcG said:

He was the best in the world at what he did. He never claimed to be a songwriter or a musician of any merit. That wasn't his job. He was a showman. And a fantastic vocalist to boot. He was essentially an early version of Michael Jackson. Both are world class live performers. Both had amazing voices. Neither of them would be considered musicians of any kind and neither of them were the sole songwriters of most of their songs.

Except. Michael Jackson was. Elvis co-wrote 4 songs.

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Reply #7 posted 10/07/21 5:25am

jjhunsecker

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As a singer, I would rate Elvis 10 out of 10. His only true peers in post 1955 popular music in terms of vocal talent are Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, and perhaps Sam Cooke and Marvin Gaye.

As for writing songs, Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald and Tony Bennett and Dionne Warwick and Whitney Houston and Patsy Cline and Barbra Streisand wrote very little if any as well. Even with Aretha, the majority of her greatest performances were of songs written by other people.
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #8 posted 10/07/21 5:57am

Hamad

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Overrated & another mediocre white boy billed as “insert hyperbole title”. We get one of those in every decade/era :shrug:

I dig his version of “Blue Moon” though.
Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

Twitter: https://twitter.com/QLH82
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Reply #9 posted 10/07/21 6:23am

jjhunsecker

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Elvis, like the vaccine- and too many other things in our society- has become “political “. And unfortunately that obscures the artistry
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #10 posted 10/07/21 6:49am

Hamad

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I hear ya, accept nothing suddenly “became” political. Everything in the US has always been political. And whether it’s taking anything away from the music or not, Elvis benefited from said politics when he was alive, that’s just the reality of things.
Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

Twitter: https://twitter.com/QLH82
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Reply #11 posted 10/07/21 6:54am

EmmaMcG

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PatrickS77 said:



EmmaMcG said:


He was the best in the world at what he did. He never claimed to be a songwriter or a musician of any merit. That wasn't his job. He was a showman. And a fantastic vocalist to boot. He was essentially an early version of Michael Jackson. Both are world class live performers. Both had amazing voices. Neither of them would be considered musicians of any kind and neither of them were the sole songwriters of most of their songs.


Except. Michael Jackson was. Elvis co-wrote 4 songs.



Hey, I love MJ as much as the next person but to say he wrote the majority of his own songs by himself is factually incorrect.
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Reply #12 posted 10/07/21 7:13am

jjhunsecker

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Hamad said:

I hear ya, accept nothing suddenly “became” political. Everything in the US has always been political. And whether it’s taking anything away from the music or not, Elvis benefited from said politics when he was alive, that’s just the reality of things.


I don’t disagree, actually ..
Did Elvis benefit from being White (and good looking) ? Certainly
Was Elvis the possessor of a great voice and talent? Definitely

These two things can co-exist
Even Chuck D stated that Elvis was a great artist
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #13 posted 10/07/21 8:53am

JoeBala

He was unique and had tons of charisma. He really did alot for music period. He was an original and people still copy him till this day. Tons of young fans have youtube channels of him as if recently. He left a real impact. A high voice when he started to a beautiful tenor voice. 10 out of 10.
Just Music-No Categories-Enjoy It!
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Reply #14 posted 10/07/21 9:31am

paisleypark4

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Get mad at the teen girls for buying all his music not his own fault. He had some good songs though gotta admit.

Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records.
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Reply #15 posted 10/07/21 10:15am

Empress

JoeBala said:

He was unique and had tons of charisma. He really did alot for music period. He was an original and people still copy him till this day. Tons of young fans have youtube channels of him as if recently. He left a real impact. A high voice when he started to a beautiful tenor voice. 10 out of 10.

Agreed! Some people are just bitter that his legacy has reached such an apex. Elvis was one of a kind and people from all over the globe love him.

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Reply #16 posted 10/07/21 11:01am

jjhunsecker

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paisleypark4 said:

Get mad at the teen girls for buying all his music not his own fault. He had some good songs though gotta admit.


What’s the lyric from the old blues song: “The men don’t know... but the little girls understand “ ?
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #17 posted 10/07/21 11:20am

EmmaMcG

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jjhunsecker said:

Hamad said:

I hear ya, accept nothing suddenly “became” political. Everything in the US has always been political. And whether it’s taking anything away from the music or not, Elvis benefited from said politics when he was alive, that’s just the reality of things.


I don’t disagree, actually ..
Did Elvis benefit from being White (and good looking) ? Certainly
Was Elvis the possessor of a great voice and talent? Definitely

These two things can co-exist
Even Chuck D stated that Elvis was a great artist


Agree 100%

Elvis himself acknowledged that he benefitted from being white. That's not news. What a lot of people conveniently leave out is how his black bandmembers benefitted from Elvis being white too. A lot of people, black and white, benefitted from his success.
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Reply #18 posted 10/07/21 11:33am

MickyDolenz

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EmmaMcG said:

Hey, I love MJ as much as the next person but to say he wrote the majority of his own songs by himself is factually incorrect.

A large portion of the Jackson 5 albums on Motown were remakes, which was common in popular music in general during & before that period. The idea of self-writing being important was mainly started by Rolling Stone magazine. RS was created post-Beatles. The listeners of Perry Como, Johnny Mathis, Bing Crosby, or Peggy Lee didn't care if they wrote songs or not. There were generally non-performing songwriters who wrote a lot of popular songs pre-rock n roll. A lot of these songs became known as standards, because a lot of singers/bands recorded them. Even instrumental jazz artists covered pop hits like John Coltrane's My Favorite Things.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #19 posted 10/07/21 12:56pm

nextedition

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EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:



EmmaMcG said:


He was the best in the world at what he did. He never claimed to be a songwriter or a musician of any merit. That wasn't his job. He was a showman. And a fantastic vocalist to boot. He was essentially an early version of Michael Jackson. Both are world class live performers. Both had amazing voices. Neither of them would be considered musicians of any kind and neither of them were the sole songwriters of most of their songs.


Except. Michael Jackson was. Elvis co-wrote 4 songs.



Hey, I love MJ as much as the next person but to say he wrote the majority of his own songs by himself is factually incorrect.

I don't know about the majority, but mj was a good songwriter who I think most of his biggest songs himself. Don't wanna turn this to mj, but you can not compare mj and Elvis in songwriting.
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Reply #20 posted 10/07/21 1:26pm

EmmaMcG

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nextedition said:

EmmaMcG said:



Hey, I love MJ as much as the next person but to say he wrote the majority of his own songs by himself is factually incorrect.

I don't know about the majority, but mj was a good songwriter who I think most of his biggest songs himself. Don't wanna turn this to mj, but you can not compare mj and Elvis in songwriting.


I'm not saying MJ is not a good songwriter. My original point was in relation to the question "is Elvis overrated?". The arguments put forward for the belief that he is overrated were that he didn't write his own songs and didn't play musical instruments. But neither did Michael Jackson, for the most part. Of course, MJ has written some of his own songs but the vast majority of them have other writers credited too. MJ could probably play a few instruments but he was no Stevie Wonder, let's face it.

Does that mean he is overrated too? Of course not. The man was a megastar. An era-defining artist who raised the bar and blew his competition away. A master showman who could excite a live crowd like only a handful of artists throughout history could do. And so was Elvis. Neither of them were overrated. They weren't particularly great musicians but that wasn't their job. Their job was to entertain and they were both so good at it that they became almost mythical.

I've posted on here before that I truly believe that for all the plaudits Michael Jackson gets, I think he's UNDER-rated by most people. That same argument could be made for Elvis Presley too. And the fact this thread exists is proof of that.
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Reply #21 posted 10/07/21 1:47pm

PatrickS77

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EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:

Except. Michael Jackson was. Elvis co-wrote 4 songs.

Hey, I love MJ as much as the next person but to say he wrote the majority of his own songs by himself is factually incorrect.

He pretty much wrote the Bad album by himself. Also his biggest hit Billie Jean. And other favourites. And was co-writer on most of the other songs. To put him on a level with Elvis as a songwriter is ridiculous. Michael is a songwriter. Elvis isn't.

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Reply #22 posted 10/07/21 1:49pm

PatrickS77

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MickyDolenz said:

EmmaMcG said:

Hey, I love MJ as much as the next person but to say he wrote the majority of his own songs by himself is factually incorrect.

A large portion of the Jackson 5 albums on Motown were remakes, which was common in popular music in general during & before that period. The idea of self-writing being important was mainly started by Rolling Stone magazine. RS was created post-Beatles. The listeners of Perry Como, Johnny Mathis, Bing Crosby, or Peggy Lee didn't care if they wrote songs or not. There were generally non-performing songwriters who wrote a lot of popular songs pre-rock n roll. A lot of these songs became known as standards, because a lot of singers/bands recorded them. Even instrumental jazz artists covered pop hits like John Coltrane's My Favorite Things.

And yet the Jacksons left Motown because they wouldn't let them write their own songs.

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Reply #23 posted 10/07/21 2:27pm

SantanaMaitrey
a

Guys! This is about Elvis Presley, not Michael Jackson! Let's leave him out of this!
If you take any of this seriously, you're a bigger fool than I am.
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Reply #24 posted 10/07/21 2:30pm

PatrickS77

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SantanaMaitreya said:

Guys! This is about Elvis Presley, not Michael Jackson! Let's leave him out of this!

It wasn't me, who brought him in.

As for the topic. I would say. Yes and no. Obviously he is one of the biggest stars and did many things first and broke records, so he's not overrated. But then again, what he did, looking at it with the knowledge of today, wasn't all that spectacular. So, yes, he is overrated. That said, I do love many of the songs Elvis sung. Especially some of his 70s songs. Suspicious minds is my favourite Elvis song. And probably one of my favourite songs ever. I got some great live CDs from the early 70s of his shows in Vegas. And some years ago, I visited Graceland, which was pretty amazing.

[Edited 10/7/21 14:35pm]

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Reply #25 posted 10/07/21 2:50pm

jjhunsecker

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Criticizing Elvis for not writing songs is like criticizing BB King for not dancing like the Nicholas Brothers or James Brown for not singing Opera
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #26 posted 10/07/21 2:56pm

jjhunsecker

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EmmaMcG said:

nextedition said:


I don't know about the majority, but mj was a good songwriter who I think most of his biggest songs himself. Don't wanna turn this to mj, but you can not compare mj and Elvis in songwriting.


I'm not saying MJ is not a good songwriter. My original point was in relation to the question "is Elvis overrated?". The arguments put forward for the belief that he is overrated were that he didn't write his own songs and didn't play musical instruments. But neither did Michael Jackson, for the most part. Of course, MJ has written some of his own songs but the vast majority of them have other writers credited too. MJ could probably play a few instruments but he was no Stevie Wonder, let's face it.

Does that mean he is overrated too? Of course not. The man was a megastar. An era-defining artist who raised the bar and blew his competition away. A master showman who could excite a live crowd like only a handful of artists throughout history could do. And so was Elvis. Neither of them were overrated. They weren't particularly great musicians but that wasn't their job. Their job was to entertain and they were both so good at it that they became almost mythical.

I've posted on here before that I truly believe that for all the plaudits Michael Jackson gets, I think he's UNDER-rated by most people. That same argument could be made for Elvis Presley too. And the fact this thread exists is proof of that.


To compare Elvis to Michael Jackson, I totally agree with you that for both of them, the IMAGE, and all the bullshit surrounding it, as blinded many to their actual artistic achievements
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #27 posted 10/07/21 2:59pm

jjhunsecker

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PatrickS77 said:



SantanaMaitreya said:


Guys! This is about Elvis Presley, not Michael Jackson! Let's leave him out of this!

It wasn't me, who brought him in.



As for the topic. I would say. Yes and no. Obviously he is one of the biggest stars and did many things first and broke records, so he's not overrated. But then again, what he did, looking at it with the knowledge of today, wasn't all that spectacular. So, yes, he is overrated. That said, I do love many of the songs Elvis sung. Especially some of his 70s songs. Suspicious minds is my favourite Elvis song. And probably one of my favourite songs ever. I got some great live CDs from the early 70s of his shows in Vegas. And some years ago, I visited Graceland, which was pretty amazing.

[Edited 10/7/21 14:35pm]



To say Elvis is overrated is like saying Hitchcock or Kubrick were overrated, or Hemingway or Steinbeck were overrated, or Van Gogh or Picasso were overrated
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #28 posted 10/07/21 3:21pm

MickyDolenz

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PatrickS77 said:

And yet the Jacksons left Motown because they wouldn't let them write their own songs.

Jermaine stayed behind and he did write some songs on his own albums and for others on Motown like Switch & Syreeta. Also the majority of the brothers 1st 2 albums on CBS were written by Gamble & Huff and their other staff writers. The majority of recording artists in the entire history of the recording business did not write their own songs. So the Jacksons wanting to write at Motown has nothing to do with what I said or that Rolling Stone popularized self-writing with their readers.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #29 posted 10/07/21 3:42pm

PatrickS77

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jjhunsecker said:

Criticizing Elvis for not writing songs is like criticizing BB King for not dancing like the Nicholas Brothers or James Brown for not singing Opera

No. It's not. What is a singer without songs? Much less than a guitarist without dance or an RnB/Funk singer without opera.

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