SuperFurryAnimal said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah so One in a Million was all to do about nothing...

No Slash played on that song as well. As a band they did the song but once again it was all on Axl.

I know. Funny thing is no GNR fan has ever brought up that song again. I'm sure Axl's forgotten about it as well.

Timmy84 said:

This is why I can't take comments like so and so is racist so the genre is home of racists seriously. I laugh every time someone says that about country music. It's like "are you that dense?" Prejudging a genre based on racist words being used in a song is as bad as the offensive party. Because if you wanna be frank, there's some racist views in hip-hop music too. Just because racist lyrics is used in certain genres don't make the genre racist. And to associate racism with a music genre doesn't really make sense.

True. It's just never that simple. It's one of the reasons why I don't like to even bring up Prince music at work. First thing people will bring up it the assless pants and some of the lyrics and try to make you a dope. It's like come on people music is entertainment. Even Prince is a lot deeper than all that.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Timmy84 said:

This is why I can't take comments like so and so is racist so the genre is home of racists seriously. I laugh every time someone says that about country music. It's like "are you that dense?" Prejudging a genre based on racist words being used in a song is as bad as the offensive party. Because if you wanna be frank, there's some racist views in hip-hop music too. Just because racist lyrics is used in certain genres don't make the genre racist. And to associate racism with a music genre doesn't really make sense.

True. It's just never that simple. It's one of the reasons why I don't like to even bring up Prince music at work. First thing people will bring up it the assless pants and some of the lyrics and try to make you a dope. It's like come on people music is entertainment. Even Prince is a lot deeper than all that.

Pretty much. People don't even think of the music when you mention a certain artist. It's all about what they read from tabloid headlines or what that artist did during their performances.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Adorecream said:

Racism and Homophobia in metal and punk, gee what a surprise. The average IQ of most metal groups is about 80, they are not just white, but mostly white trash.

Watched a documentary about Hawk wind the other day, all toothless and haggard in their late 50s and drugged out to the death. Now you know why I like intelligent acts like Prince and Madonna in comparison.

I also remember it was a few years ago when Kele from Bloc Party went up to shake Johnny Rottens' hand and all he got was some shit about being a black poofter. Kele, whose surname is Okereke is Nigerian and openly gay was pretty offended as we can all understand.

I think that would be who many people would stereotype metal/punk but I guess the same would go for rap music and we likely some negative stereotypes for being Prince fans but those people just don't know.

Sometimes when people learn that I am a Prince fan they assume that I must be gay.

rialb said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I think that would be who many people would stereotype metal/punk but I guess the same would go for rap music and we likely some negative stereotypes for being Prince fans but those people just don't know.

Sometimes when people learn that I am a Prince fan they assume that I must be gay.

Shit I remember when someone claimed they were a fan of Prince in high school and that's all dude heard was he was gay. With me, they just were asking "ain't he gay?"

Timmy84 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

No Slash played on that song as well. As a band they did the song but once again it was all on Axl.

I know. Funny thing is no GNR fan has ever brought up that song again. I'm sure Axl's forgotten about it as well.

Actually GNR fans bring it up all the time. Half of them support the song as is and believe Axl's explanations of the offensive lyrics, half of them don't.

It would be such a great song without the offensive lyrics, I hope it's brought back without them.

I See One In A Million like this...

Like a lot of early GNR songs it has a story behind it dealing with LA debauchery. And this imo is the ending of the saga from Appettite to GNR Lies...

Telling the story of a small town white boy who pretty much hates everyone and tries to understand life around him aka the story of Axl

Gunsnhalen said:

I See One In A Million like this...

Like a lot of early GNR songs it has a story behind it dealing with LA debauchery. And this imo is the ending of the saga from Appettite to GNR Lies...

Telling the story of a small town white boy who pretty much hates everyone and tries to understand life around him aka the story of Axl

I thought that was the storyline to the "Welcome To The Jungle" video. Axl gets off the bus from Indiana and is in LA for the 1st time--"you know where you are? You're in the jungle, baby!"

Just cause he's a small town boy doesnt automatically give carte blache to call people niggers and faggots. It wasnt like he got off the bus from year 1830.

Sort of like how Vernon Reid stated as peners for The Rolling Stiones...."if you dont have a oproblem with black people, dont call then niggers. If you dont have a problem with gay people dont call them faggots.

Like it takes an 18 year old 4 years of being submerged into a diverse city to think "Oh, you dont call people those names. I get it now."

(c) Kfoolio

rdhull said:

Just cause he's a small town boy doesnt automatically give carte blache to call people niggers and faggots. It wasnt like he got off the bus from year 1830.

Sort of like how Vernon Reid stated as peners for The Rolling Stiones...."if you dont have a oproblem with black people, dont call then niggers. If you dont have a problem with gay people dont call them faggots.

Like it takes an 18 year old 4 years of being submerged into a diverse city to think "Oh, you dont call people those names. I get it now."

(c) Kfoolio

Calm down rd

I wasn't saying that he didn't know better, i am saying that A. It's the storyline to the song B. Axl Rose is somebody that hates EVERYONE he has talked down on whites, blacks, gays, straight people and anything in between.

He has hate for pretty much everyone.

Gunsnhalen said:

rdhull said:

Just cause he's a small town boy doesnt automatically give carte blache to call people niggers and faggots. It wasnt like he got off the bus from year 1830.

Sort of like how Vernon Reid stated as peners for The Rolling Stiones...."if you dont have a oproblem with black people, dont call then niggers. If you dont have a problem with gay people dont call them faggots.

Like it takes an 18 year old 4 years of being submerged into a diverse city to think "Oh, you dont call people those names. I get it now."

(c) Kfoolio

Calm down rd

I wasn't saying that he didn't know better, i am saying that A. It's the storyline to the song B. Axl Rose is somebody that hates EVERYONE he has talked down on whites, blacks, gays, straight people and anything in between.

He has hate for pretty much everyone.

I'm am calm. Im justy not falling for the okeydoke.. of the stortytelling and the Axl hates everyone equally typical bullshit.

Because it aint always that. It IS at times fucked up racist shit.

Even if he did end up wearing a NWA hate.

Gunsnhalen said:

rdhull said:

Just cause he's a small town boy doesnt automatically give carte blache to call people niggers and faggots. It wasnt like he got off the bus from year 1830.

Sort of like how Vernon Reid stated as peners for The Rolling Stiones...."if you dont have a oproblem with black people, dont call then niggers. If you dont have a problem with gay people dont call them faggots.

Like it takes an 18 year old 4 years of being submerged into a diverse city to think "Oh, you dont call people those names. I get it now."

(c) Kfoolio

Calm down rd

I wasn't saying that he didn't know better, i am saying that A. It's the storyline to the song B. Axl Rose is somebody that hates EVERYONE he has talked down on whites, blacks, gays, straight people and anything in between.

He has hate for pretty much everyone.

That's because he views the world as everyone is "Out Ta Get Me" ... sound familiar?

In One In A Million here's his explanations for each offensive part:

Cops - He got hassled by a lot of them, they beat the crap out of him, and one time in Chicago he was held down on a brick floor by 8 cops and he thought they would bash his head onto the floor.

Immigrants - He says they treat him like he doesn't belong here, he said he was chased out of a store by a 6' tall Iranian guy waving a butcher knife and the only reason he got chased was because the Iranian didn't like the way he was dressed.

Gays - He said a guy let him crash in his hotel room, and when he woke up the guy was trying to rape him. It's worth noting that one of Axl's closest friends is Elton John, a guy he greatly admires.

Blacks - He said at the L.A. Greyhound bus station there's a "large number of black men selling stolen jewelry, crack, heroin and pot, and most of the drugs are bogus. Rip-off artists selling parking spaces to parking lots that there's no charge for. Trying to misguide every kid that gets off the bus and doesn't quite know where he's at or where to go, trying to take the person for whatever they've got." He also referenced John Lennon's use of the n-word in a song title.

Axl has always insisted he had specific people in mind when he wrote those lyrics, they weren't meant for all cops/immigrants/gays/blacks. What he foolishly didn't realize was that he was stereotyping by using the words he used. And he thought including the verse "Radicals and racists, don't point your finger at me" would make it all better, but it doesn't.

I sometimes feel conflicted about black metal bands from Norway.

Some of them ARE racists, openly so. And some of them are violent in real life.

But once in a while I hear something and I have to admit, boy are they radical and different sounding. Sometimes it sounds pretty good. I can't understand the lyrics at all - can't tell what their beliefs are just by listening. (I couldn't listen to bands singing racist stuff in English, it would put me off too much to enjoy the tunes.) It just sounds real grim and dark.

At the same time, I wouldn't wear their t-shirts. I couldn't embrace it as an identity, it would be like wearing a Charlie Manson shirt or something. You know - fuck that guy, seriously. I don't want to support that.

Yet I find myself watching any time there's something about Manson on TV. I don't like him, or endorse him, but have to admit I find him interesting.

I don't know. Is it like Wagner? Most people would say, that's some of the greatest music ever made, you shouldn't ignore it just because the author had some backwards views that were very common at the time.

Should I block them out? Or should I say, the art is not the same thing as the person who made it, and just forget it and listen? Is it OK to give them my money? Does that make me a racist or an apologist for racists?

bobzilla77 said:

I sometimes feel conflicted about black metal bands from Norway.

Some of them ARE racists, openly so. And some of them are violent in real life.

But once in a while I hear something and I have to admit, boy are they radical and different sounding. Sometimes it sounds pretty good. I can't understand the lyrics at all - can't tell what their beliefs are just by listening. (I couldn't listen to bands singing racist stuff in English, it would put me off too much to enjoy the tunes.) It just sounds real grim and dark.

At the same time, I wouldn't wear their t-shirts. I couldn't embrace it as an identity, it would be like wearing a Charlie Manson shirt or something. You know - fuck that guy, seriously. I don't want to support that.

Yet I find myself watching any time there's something about Manson on TV. I don't like him, or endorse him, but have to admit I find him interesting.

I don't know. Is it like Wagner? Most people would say, that's some of the greatest music ever made, you shouldn't ignore it just because the author had some backwards views that were very common at the time.

Should I block them out? Or should I say, the art is not the same thing as the person who made it, and just forget it and listen? Is it OK to give them my money? Does that make me a racist or an apologist for racists?

Thats the sticky wicket I deal with as well.

DerekH said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I See One In A Million like this...

Like a lot of early GNR songs it has a story behind it dealing with LA debauchery. And this imo is the ending of the saga from Appettite to GNR Lies...

Telling the story of a small town white boy who pretty much hates everyone and tries to understand life around him aka the story of Axl

I thought that was the storyline to the "Welcome To The Jungle" video. Axl gets off the bus from Indiana and is in LA for the 1st time--"you know where you are? You're in the jungle, baby!"

It is... hell the video to "Jungle" shows Axl's mind set. It's basically saying "the world's nuts". I knew that when I saw the video even when I was at an age that wasn't supposed to "know" shit.

rialb said:

TonyVanDam said:

By Gene Simmons' own admission, some metal heads are complete idiots.

And excuse me, but just like the case of R&R, metal was invented by black folks. And black folks are entitled to play AND listen to metal anytime they damn well please. And besides, black folks give metal a funky edge.

In your opinion who invented Heavy Metal?

Jimi Hendrix.

TonyVanDam said:

rialb said:

In your opinion who invented Heavy Metal?

Jimi Hendrix.

I thought that you were going to say that. What about Cream? Weren't they already doing something awfully similar to what Hendrix was doing? The Jimi Hendrix Experience was basically patterned after Cream. You could probably (successfully) argue that Hendrix pushed things further than Cream ever did but they were very much similar acts and Cream was first.

I think that people of color sometimes have to use cognitive dissonace in order to listen to certain bands. I have friends that constanly rave about Pantera, but theres no way in hell that I'll support a band who's imagery includes the confederate flag. That being said, as a teen I had posters of Billy Idol rocking a confederat flag t-shirt. Souxie and Sid Viscious both rocked swastikas. The movie 'Breaking Glass' had some racially charged stuff as well. I mangaged to look past those things in my youth, but as an adult theres no way that I'd support any of that shit with either my time, energy, or cash.

rialb said:

TonyVanDam said:

Jimi Hendrix.

I thought that you were going to say that. What about Cream? Weren't they already doing something awfully similar to what Hendrix was doing? The Jimi Hendrix Experience was basically patterned after Cream. You could probably (successfully) argue that Hendrix pushed things further than Cream ever did but they were very much similar acts and Cream was first.

It's hard to pinpoint who really started it. It's like asking who started R&B or who started rock and roll, you really can't pinpoint it to one group or one singer. I mean when it comes to R&B, you're gonna have to do a lot better than say Louis Jordan or Ray Charles started it and when it comes to rock and roll, just namedropping Elvis, Chuck Berry and/or Little Richard isn't gonna cut it either.

rialb said:

TonyVanDam said:

Jimi Hendrix.

I thought that you were going to say that. What about Cream? Weren't they already doing something awfully similar to what Hendrix was doing? The Jimi Hendrix Experience was basically patterned after Cream. You could probably (successfully) argue that Hendrix pushed things further than Cream ever did but they were very much similar acts and Cream was first.

But Cream (especially Eric Clapton) & Jimi Hendrix were influence directly from blues, so I think both acts are a coin toss.