Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

I thought Mariah Carey was white until she said she said she had a black father.

Mariah Carey and the DeBarges were actually the first mixed people that made me realize you can't never tell what someone's race is. It also made me realized just how hard multiracial and biracial people have had in the world to be looked on like they were science projects. I'm sure Slash himself suffered too as a biracial man of white British and black American descent.

I've always thought that the DeBarge's were black, and didn't realize they were mixed, until the late 1990's when I saw an article where their father was mentioned. I've went to school with light skinned kids who had dark skinned parents and vice versa. So they didn't look any different to me, they just had the "good hair". I've heard that Naomi Campbell is half Japanese, but I've never really seen that.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

Mariah Carey and the DeBarges were actually the first mixed people that made me realize you can't never tell what someone's race is. It also made me realized just how hard multiracial and biracial people have had in the world to be looked on like they were science projects. I'm sure Slash himself suffered too as a biracial man of white British and black American descent.

I've always thought that the DeBarge's were black, and didn't realize they were mixed, until the late 1990's when I saw an article where their father was mentioned. I've went to school with light skinned kids who had dark skinned parents and vice versa. So they didn't look any different to me, they just had the "good hair". I've heard that Naomi Campbell is half Japanese, but I've never really seen that.

I knew they were black too but it was their names that got me fucked up.

I knew Mariah was mixed with black when I first saw her.

Naomi's gran is allegedly Chinese.

The Debarges looked mixed to me-esp El, James and Bobby. The rest of them looked half Latino and half Black or all Latino

I read a good bit of Slash's autobio-I don't think race really impacted him as a kid. You have to remember that he spent his formative years in England. Things are different over there

^ Well that is true. Slash didn't really grow up around black folks that much unless it was his grandmother and some cousins.

As for DeBarge, some of them had strong Native American Indian features. Etterlene DeBarge claims she's black with American Indian ancestry so there you go.

Lol, every black person is mixed with Indian. Etterlene is just color struck as hell.

Does anyone know where in the states Slash's mom is from?

Plus, when Slash came back to the states, he came back to LA-he went to either junior high or high school with steven adler-it wasn't in the hood, I can tell you that

none of the debarges look native american to me

[Edited 1/7/13 15:51pm]

It's suggested Slash's mom was from California.

I know not every black person has Indian blood (I know I don't lol, more European than Indian) but who knows with DeBarge. Some of them have strong features from their father though.

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

I've always thought that the DeBarge's were black, and didn't realize they were mixed, until the late 1990's when I saw an article where their father was mentioned. I've went to school with light skinned kids who had dark skinned parents and vice versa. So they didn't look any different to me, they just had the "good hair". I've heard that Naomi Campbell is half Japanese, but I've never really seen that.

I knew they were black too but it was their names that got me fucked up.

Isn't DeBarge a French name? Ralph from New Edition's name is French. It's actually pronounced "Tray Vont", but Ralph said most people didn't prounce it right. Tito Jackson's name is actually (spelled depending on the source) 'Toriano/Tariano' which seems like a Latino name. I went to elementary school with a Toriano, but he was black.

Debarge is a French name.

Timmy, you really think that all talented peeps, a la Axl are crazy?

[Edited 1/7/13 16:14pm]

Off topic sort of here...

Anyone here mixed?

Script did you say you were mixed?

I myself am half white and half Cherokee but people either think i'm full white or a hapa(Half white half Japanese)

scriptgirl said:

Debarge is a French name.

Timmy, you really think that all talented peeps, a la Axl are crazy?

[Edited 1/7/13 16:14pm]

Not all but a really good portion are.

Both my parents are black, but I have a bunch of other stuff mixed in. I am very light, so most people assume I am mixed.

aardvark15 said:

Racism, ageism, sexism, and homophobia are deep in music roots. If you're one race, sexuality, age, sex or a combination of the four you're expected to like/make a certain kind of music

White:

Straight Man- Rock

Southern Straight Man And Woman - Country

Straight Woman - Women who can't sing

LGBT - Dance and women with strong voices

Black:

Straight & Young - Hip-Hop, Rap

Straight & Old - R&B

LGBT - Soul Divas and Frank Ocean

Hispanic:

Straight Black Hispanic - Hispanic Hip-Hop

Straight Non-Black Hispanic - Music from artists from the person's country

LGBT - Gloria Estefan

I will never understand why these boundaries are made, but they are

And THOSE^ bouundries are total bullshit. I'm a straight single black male and I listen to Gloria Estefan.

Gunsnhalen said:

It seems i have learned over the years metal heads can be incredibly stupid.. or incredibly smart.

I am a bit bothered that even in 2013 there seems to be a bit of racism that still comes up in metal. For example i am a fan of the VH1 Classic show ''That Metal Show'' and every time any kind of black person if brought up they are either ''racists'' or ''scumbags''

They freaked out Public Enemy were getting into R&R hall of fame over Deep Purple and Kiss!, and all the comments were either Public Enemy is racists, woman beaters or stupid. I am curious if they do not recall the Public Enemy & Anthrax Collab?

Also on That Metal Show they have some African American metal artists on their show like the members of Living Colour, Tony Macalpine, Doug Pinnick and Tom Morelleo.

And when they have members of African American metal bands the audience asks very good questions and seem more open minded to other genres. When it is someone like Iced Earth, Death, Overkill etc. It's all metal and stupid metal heads saying fuck yeah in ever sentence.

I grew up with metal and it seems there is still a lot of racism in it. Not every meta head is a racists obviously but there still is a lot of it...

I Also have friend's of every race who love metal and they always get the comment ''What you like metal and you're black? or Asian?''

It's also sad that many African American metal bands are not as accepted as others...

It's something that bugs me cause i love the genre but wish there was not this ignorance that only white people play metal. Hell i would say the best metal bands are the kinds that are open to funk and Hip Hop ala Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine, Living Colour, Mr. Bungle & My favorite band of all time Fishbone.

So what are opinions on this? and yes i realize there can be racism in ALL music but this is specific just to metal.

By Gene Simmons' own admission, some metal heads are complete idiots.

And excuse me, but just like the case of R&R, metal was invented by black folks. And black folks are entitled to play AND listen to metal anytime they damn well please. And besides, black folks give metal a funky edge.

JoeTyler said:

well, if we're gonna hijack the thread a bit (talking about the quality of metal, not just about the racism of some of the well-known bands) I gotta say that both the bands and the fans DESERVE to be arrogant (aka know-it-all-assholes), BECAUSE MAKE NO MISTAKE: in the realm of "real music & real musicians" HEAVY-METAL is KING, followed closely by Jazz

the musicianship of metal is above everything, face it (at least until the mid-90s)

oh, and Motley Crue are racists (perhaps Vince is the exception), of course they are, your typical "niggers don't belong in high-school/college/the gov" scum

Wrong. Nikki Sixx was THE only member guilty as charge for calling that black security guard a n***er years ago, despite the fact that it was Motley Crue's own fans that were more in the wrong for trying to bum rush the stage when that guard was doing his job of keeping their asses back.

From what I know, Vince Neil & Tommy Lee have never been racist or said anything racially insensitive.

As for Mick Mars, he equally hates everybody outside of the metal community!

Racism and Homophobia in metal and punk, gee what a surprise. The average IQ of most metal groups is about 80, they are not just white, but mostly white trash.

Watched a documentary about Hawk wind the other day, all toothless and haggard in their late 50s and drugged out to the death. Now you know why I like intelligent acts like Prince and Madonna in comparison.

I also remember it was a few years ago when Kele from Bloc Party went up to shake Johnny Rottens' hand and all he got was some shit about being a black poofter. Kele, whose surname is Okereke is Nigerian and openly gay was pretty offended as we can all understand.

TonyVanDam said:

Gunsnhalen said:

It seems i have learned over the years metal heads can be incredibly stupid.. or incredibly smart.

I am a bit bothered that even in 2013 there seems to be a bit of racism that still comes up in metal. For example i am a fan of the VH1 Classic show ''That Metal Show'' and every time any kind of black person if brought up they are either ''racists'' or ''scumbags''

They freaked out Public Enemy were getting into R&R hall of fame over Deep Purple and Kiss!, and all the comments were either Public Enemy is racists, woman beaters or stupid. I am curious if they do not recall the Public Enemy & Anthrax Collab?

Also on That Metal Show they have some African American metal artists on their show like the members of Living Colour, Tony Macalpine, Doug Pinnick and Tom Morelleo.

And when they have members of African American metal bands the audience asks very good questions and seem more open minded to other genres. When it is someone like Iced Earth, Death, Overkill etc. It's all metal and stupid metal heads saying fuck yeah in ever sentence.

I grew up with metal and it seems there is still a lot of racism in it. Not every meta head is a racists obviously but there still is a lot of it...

I Also have friend's of every race who love metal and they always get the comment ''What you like metal and you're black? or Asian?''

It's also sad that many African American metal bands are not as accepted as others...

It's something that bugs me cause i love the genre but wish there was not this ignorance that only white people play metal. Hell i would say the best metal bands are the kinds that are open to funk and Hip Hop ala Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine, Living Colour, Mr. Bungle & My favorite band of all time Fishbone.

So what are opinions on this? and yes i realize there can be racism in ALL music but this is specific just to metal.

By Gene Simmons' own admission, some metal heads are complete idiots.

And excuse me, but just like the case of R&R, metal was invented by black folks. And black folks are entitled to play AND listen to metal anytime they damn well please. And besides, black folks give metal a funky edge.

In your opinion who invented Heavy Metal?

Adorecream said:

Racism and Homophobia in metal and punk, gee what a surprise. The average IQ of most metal groups is about 80, they are not just white, but mostly white trash.

Watched a documentary about Hawk wind the other day, all toothless and haggard in their late 50s and drugged out to the death. Now you know why I like intelligent acts like Prince and Madonna in comparison.

I also remember it was a few years ago when Kele from Bloc Party went up to shake Johnny Rottens' hand and all he got was some shit about being a black poofter. Kele, whose surname is Okereke is Nigerian and openly gay was pretty offended as we can all understand.

Eh, you're painting with broad strokes. "Black" music, particularly rap, can be very homophobic too. A lot of C & W fans are very racist. I suspect that all genres of music have portions of their listeners that exhibit asshole-ish behaviour.

Regarding music, I don't think "intelligence" matters. I would much rather listen to a "dumb" person sing a great song rather than a "smart" person sing a crappy song.

Gunsnhalen said:

Off topic sort of here...

Anyone here mixed?

Script did you say you were mixed?

I myself am half white and half Cherokee but people either think i'm full white or a hapa(Half white half Japanese)

I am as mixed as they come, doing my family tree last year I found out I was 41% English, 31% Irish, 22% Maori (Polynesian like Hawaiians and Samoans) and 6% Polish Jewish through my fathers side. Now if that isn't mixed what is.

Rialb you are right, all gneres of music are dumb to some degree. I am turned off by any form of music that calls people racist names or goes on about their sexuality in a negative way.

rialb said:

Adorecream said:

Racism and Homophobia in metal and punk, gee what a surprise. The average IQ of most metal groups is about 80, they are not just white, but mostly white trash.

Watched a documentary about Hawk wind the other day, all toothless and haggard in their late 50s and drugged out to the death. Now you know why I like intelligent acts like Prince and Madonna in comparison.

I also remember it was a few years ago when Kele from Bloc Party went up to shake Johnny Rottens' hand and all he got was some shit about being a black poofter. Kele, whose surname is Okereke is Nigerian and openly gay was pretty offended as we can all understand.

Eh, you're painting with broad strokes. "Black" music, particularly rap, can be very homophobic too. A lot of C & W fans are very racist. I suspect that all genres of music have portions of their listeners that exhibit asshole-ish behaviour.

Regarding music, I don't think "intelligence" matters. I would much rather listen to a "dumb" person sing a great song rather than a "smart" person sing a crappy song.

A genre's not racist, but you can be sure there's people in those genres that are racist. And therein lies the difference. I can still enjoy metal knowing that.

scriptgirl said:

Does anyone know where in the states Slash's mom is from?

Plus, when Slash came back to the states, he came back to LA-he went to either junior high or high school with steven adler-it wasn't in the hood, I can tell you that

[Edited 1/7/13 15:51pm]

Slash's mom was a costume designer for David Bowie, Diana Ross, John Lennon, Stevie Wonder, Janet Jackson, the Pointer Sisters and Ringo Starr to name a few. She was from Laurel Canyon, California. Slash was born in England, therefore it was not a return for him when he moved to Los Angeles. He went to Beverly Hills High, that's where he first met Lenny Kravitz.

Slash wasn't thrilled with the song "One In A Million", but he doesn't regret doing it.

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

Slash's mother was from the United States and black. I don't think she was Caribbean.

i see, I was def mistaken, perhaps I thought of someone else

You may have been thinking of Lenny Kravitz's grandfather, he was Bahamian.

Gunsnhalen said:

scriptgirl said:

odd fact-I know that vinnie's wife was murdered.

did anyone else in gnr share axl's racism? I always thought izzy did, since they were from the same hometown

Axl is a weird case. He had some lyrics that said the ''n'' word but he also had lyrics talking down white people and many other races. Pretty sure he just hates everyone

Izzy has had many African American members on his solo projects and is also good friend's with RZA and Red Man.

And he is still very tight with Slash(Who a lot of people forget is half black )

The only song I know of GNR using the N word is One in a Million which is imo ended up being the lowest part of Guns history. I see the song written from the perspective of some small town white boy that never seen the big city and grew up around only white people and exposed to some racism with no exposure to anything but that and then having the culture shock of moving to the big city. Sounds to me a lot like Axl/Izzy's trip but I think by that time they already progressed and where into a lot of black music and obviously they were working with Slash, who played on the song as well. I remember reading an article with Axl and Ice-T and they both were trying to say just cause you sing a song doesn't make you a racist or a cop killer, David Bowie isn't an astronaut and Eric Clapton never shot a sheriff. I think though at the time the PMRC was not too far in the distance. People were doing things to just be like, well we can write a song and it can be out there but it comes down to freedom of speech fuck you all. I even remember Rick Rubin wanting the produce some KKK hardcore band because he thought they played great and even though he did not agree with the message it was more of a freedom of speech issue. That created a rift with the Beasties.

The entire fued with how kept Bodycount from touring with GNR and Metallica has gone back and forth. Axl claims Hetfield would not go along with the tour if Bodycount were on the bill etc. but who knows but I do know at that time Axl was embracing a lot of rap (checkout "My World" and he use to wear NWA hat on stage and "It taste good don't it")

Adorecream said:

Racism and Homophobia in metal and punk, gee what a surprise. The average IQ of most metal groups is about 80, they are not just white, but mostly white trash.

Watched a documentary about Hawk wind the other day, all toothless and haggard in their late 50s and drugged out to the death. Now you know why I like intelligent acts like Prince and Madonna in comparison.

I also remember it was a few years ago when Kele from Bloc Party went up to shake Johnny Rottens' hand and all he got was some shit about being a black poofter. Kele, whose surname is Okereke is Nigerian and openly gay was pretty offended as we can all understand.

I think that would be who many people would stereotype metal/punk but I guess the same would go for rap music and we likely some negative stereotypes for being Prince fans but those people just don't know.

JoeTyler said:

scriptgirl said:

odd fact-I know that vinnie's wife was murdered.

did anyone else in gnr share axl's racism? I always thought izzy did, since they were from the same hometown

not a clue about Izzy, but he probably isn't, I mean: he HATED Axl at least for some years after leaving gnr; wasn't Izzy the anti-Axl of the band, fake friendship and all??

Duff and Slash are definitely NOT racists, Slash's mother is caribbean if I'm not mistaken

that dreadful song (One in a Million) saw the light of day just because Axl was already out of control in 1988, and he convinced his repulsed bandmates by telling them that that the lyrics were about the vibe of his hometown, not about his own views: BOLLOCKS

I don't believe Slash is racist but how can someones mother being caibbean make them not a racist or a racist is beyond logic.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Axl is a weird case. He had some lyrics that said the ''n'' word but he also had lyrics talking down white people and many other races. Pretty sure he just hates everyone

Izzy has had many African American members on his solo projects and is also good friend's with RZA and Red Man.

And he is still very tight with Slash(Who a lot of people forget is half black )

The only song I know of GNR using the N word is One in a Million which is imo ended up being the lowest part of Guns history. I see the song written from the perspective of some small town white boy that never seen the big city and grew up around only white people and exposed to some racism with no exposure to anything but that and then having the culture shock of moving to the big city. Sounds to me a lot like Axl/Izzy's trip but I think by that time they already progressed and where into a lot of black music and obviously they were working with Slash, who played on the song as well. I remember reading an article with Axl and Ice-T and they both were trying to say just cause you sing a song doesn't make you a racist or a cop killer, David Bowie isn't an astronaut and Eric Clapton never shot a sheriff. I think though at the time the PMRC was not too far in the distance. People were doing things to just be like, well we can write a song and it can be out there but it comes down to freedom of speech fuck you all. I even remember Rick Rubin wanting the produce some KKK hardcore band because he thought they played great and even though he did not agree with the message it was more of a freedom of speech issue. That created a rift with the Beasties.

The entire fued with how kept Bodycount from touring with GNR and Metallica has gone back and forth. Axl claims Hetfield would not go along with the tour if Bodycount were on the bill etc. but who knows but I do know at that time Axl was embracing a lot of rap (checkout "My World" and he use to wear NWA hat on stage and "It taste good don't it")

Yeah so One in a Million was all to do about nothing...

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Adorecream said:

Racism and Homophobia in metal and punk, gee what a surprise. The average IQ of most metal groups is about 80, they are not just white, but mostly white trash.

Watched a documentary about Hawk wind the other day, all toothless and haggard in their late 50s and drugged out to the death. Now you know why I like intelligent acts like Prince and Madonna in comparison.

I also remember it was a few years ago when Kele from Bloc Party went up to shake Johnny Rottens' hand and all he got was some shit about being a black poofter. Kele, whose surname is Okereke is Nigerian and openly gay was pretty offended as we can all understand.

I think that would be who many people would stereotype metal/punk but I guess the same would go for rap music and we likely some negative stereotypes for being Prince fans but those people just don't know.

This is why I can't take comments like so and so is racist so the genre is home of racists seriously. I laugh every time someone says that about country music. It's like "are you that dense?" Prejudging a genre based on racist words being used in a song is as bad as the offensive party. Because if you wanna be frank, there's some racist views in hip-hop music too. Just because racist lyrics is used in certain genres don't make the genre racist. And to associate racism with a music genre doesn't really make sense.

JoeTyler said:

scriptgirl said:

how were axl and izzy fake friends?

a person like Axl cannot have friends, just temporary collaborators, Izzy was (is) way too weird/shy to develop a true friendship with anyone

i don't care if they were from the same hometown, Axl and Izzy quickly learned to hate each other, period, lol

It's odd to me then that they still tour together some. Izzy also talked with Axl in the past couple years about writing songs again. I believe Axl mentioned that when he was posting as "Dexter" at the gnr board. From all accounts as to why Izzy left, he cleaned up sober, off drugs and he was sick of the entire scene and had to get out to stay clean. Some of the beef I believe that Axl also had with Slash and Duff is that they were bombed out on drugs and alcohol at the time. Believe it or not Axl never was a big druggie, more so I think some mental issues and fucked up childhood but he was not a big drug user.

Timmy84 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

The only song I know of GNR using the N word is One in a Million which is imo ended up being the lowest part of Guns history. I see the song written from the perspective of some small town white boy that never seen the big city and grew up around only white people and exposed to some racism with no exposure to anything but that and then having the culture shock of moving to the big city. Sounds to me a lot like Axl/Izzy's trip but I think by that time they already progressed and where into a lot of black music and obviously they were working with Slash, who played on the song as well. I remember reading an article with Axl and Ice-T and they both were trying to say just cause you sing a song doesn't make you a racist or a cop killer, David Bowie isn't an astronaut and Eric Clapton never shot a sheriff. I think though at the time the PMRC was not too far in the distance. People were doing things to just be like, well we can write a song and it can be out there but it comes down to freedom of speech fuck you all. I even remember Rick Rubin wanting the produce some KKK hardcore band because he thought they played great and even though he did not agree with the message it was more of a freedom of speech issue. That created a rift with the Beasties.

The entire fued with how kept Bodycount from touring with GNR and Metallica has gone back and forth. Axl claims Hetfield would not go along with the tour if Bodycount were on the bill etc. but who knows but I do know at that time Axl was embracing a lot of rap (checkout "My World" and he use to wear NWA hat on stage and "It taste good don't it")

Yeah so One in a Million was all to do about nothing...

No Slash played on that song as well. As a band they did the song but once again it was all on Axl.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

JoeTyler said:

a person like Axl cannot have friends, just temporary collaborators, Izzy was (is) way too weird/shy to develop a true friendship with anyone

i don't care if they were from the same hometown, Axl and Izzy quickly learned to hate each other, period, lol

It's odd to me then that they still tour together some. Izzy also talked with Axl in the past couple years about writing songs again. I believe Axl mentioned that when he was posting as "Dexter" at the gnr board. From all accounts as to why Izzy left, he cleaned up sober, off drugs and he was sick of the entire scene and had to get out to stay clean. Some of the beef I believe that Axl also had with Slash and Duff is that they were bombed out on drugs and alcohol at the time. Believe it or not Axl never was a big druggie, more so I think some mental issues and fucked up childhood but he was not a big drug user.

Yeah. Axl never touched drugs and alcohol. The rest of the band were addicts and junkies and yeah I read that's how Axl and the others' friendships broke down: over drugs. Least in Axl's view. According to Slash and Duff, though, they claimed Axl wanted control over the name Guns N' Roses and also of what music they should do. Like if Slash and Duff wanted to go all out metal, Axl would want to do some blues or something symphonic or something like "November Rain". Remember, Axl was a big fan of Queen and Elton John and he wanted GNR to be more epic. Slash and Duff never really dug what Axl wanted to do and that led to them dissolving even more.

Slash's mom is not Caribbean, she is African American.

I never thought Axl was a huge druggie. With his bipolar issues, he'd be 20 x worse than he is now