Timmy84 said:

rdhull said:

It depends.

With Sledge, it did.

With A-ha. I doubt it.

I think it ends somewhat with an affinity towards artists from the school of the 50's and 60's when it comes to either one hit wonders or at least popularity in the United States.

I mean it's common knowledge. A-ha didn't do much to have a legacy here.

A-Ha are known from 2 hits maybe, they do have a certain legacy in their own country, i guess but they are not really that iconic to me. they might have inspired some great names, but in a bigger picture i don't think they have inspired that many artists. KISS is iconic, i think. they should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame tbh. but still Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a joke, Kraftwerk should have gone in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year, they are influential, i think.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

well, despite the gold status of Lick It Up and the well-received late'83 first non-makeup tour, it's no secret that Kiss still faced financial TROUBLE, so after 1983 it was basically "let's do it ourselves: cheap, quick and easy"; both Simmons and Stanley had this HUGE writer's block during the mid-80s and not even Ron Nevison could help 'em (that Crazy Nights '87 album, average at best, full of embarrassing filler and clumsy keyboards at worst), but still the band survived the rest of the '80s thanks to the 4 or 5 semi-hits that Paul wrote during that time, Michael Bolton and all

and I guess Michael J. Jackson basically disappeared after the hard-rock craze of the 80s, like many other great producers of that time: whatever happened to Mike Clink?? Ted Templeman? Flemming Rasmussen?? only Rick Rubin and Bob Rock made decades-lasting careers...

[Edited 1/7/13 9:09am]

That's probably true regarding the D.I.Y. production that Kiss adopted in the mid-late eighties but it wasn't really that noticeable until Hot in the Shade. Sure, "Forever" was a huge hit but both Paul and Gene later admitted that the album was basically demos that they didn't want to spend the money upgrading. I don't think it is a coincidence that Revenge (arguably their best post-Creatures of the Night album ) was produced by a "big name" producer (Bob Ezrin).

Kiss lost the plot after '83, both artistically and financially (much like Prince after 93). Crazy Nights (both the album and the tour) made 'em lose money (big promotion/production for nothing). Revenge was their last attempt at something both GOOD AND SUCCESSFUL, and they more or less succeed: it's a strong (not great, in my opinion) album which sold well (platinum by the mid-90s if I'm not mistaken); the songs were there (thanks in no small part to Vinnie), the money for the right production and the right promotion was there (thanks to the $$$ they got with "Forever") and the hunger was there again (Simmons finally got his demon back); of course, it was the Reunion Tour which truly brought back the BIG $$$$$$$$$

I do have to give Paul credit for the last two albums, I don't think that the fact that he produced them hurts them at all. They sound pretty good to me.

Sonic Boom and Monster are solid rock albums; a bit preposterous, sure, but SOLID nonetheless, they completely erase the sins of Carnival of Souls/Pyscho Circus

Howard Benson is still as busy as ever. Michael Beinhorn is another producer who I liked but he has disappeared a bit over the last decade or so.

I guess that it is a good thing that so many artists can self-produce and get a decent sound doing it but I miss the magic that you got when you had the rare confluence of a great band with a great batch of songs working with the right producer.

nowadays the rock scene is just not great enough to make flourish a plethora of interesting producers like in the 70s, 80s and early 90s; nowadays it's all about Rick Rubin and Brendan O'Brien, or just some faceless nobody who knows how to use ProTools

odd fact-I know that vinnie's wife was murdered.

did anyone else in gnr share axl's racism? I always thought izzy did, since they were from the same hometown

scriptgirl said:

odd fact-I know that vinnie's wife was murdered.

did anyone else in gnr share axl's racism? I always thought izzy did, since they were from the same hometown

Axl is a weird case. He had some lyrics that said the ''n'' word but he also had lyrics talking down white people and many other races. Pretty sure he just hates everyone

Izzy has had many African American members on his solo projects and is also good friend's with RZA and Red Man.

And he is still very tight with Slash(Who a lot of people forget is half black )

How and when did Izzy meet RZA and Red Man and what black folk did he have on his solo projects-Is there photographic evidence?

scriptgirl said:

odd fact-I know that vinnie's wife was murdered.

did anyone else in gnr share axl's racism? I always thought izzy did, since they were from the same hometown

not a clue about Izzy, but he probably isn't, I mean: he HATED Axl at least for some years after leaving gnr; wasn't Izzy the anti-Axl of the band, fake friendship and all??

Duff and Slash are definitely NOT racists, Slash's mother is caribbean if I'm not mistaken

that dreadful song (One in a Million) saw the light of day just because Axl was already out of control in 1988, and he convinced his repulsed bandmates by telling them that that the lyrics were about the vibe of his hometown, not about his own views: BOLLOCKS

Gunsnhalen said:

scriptgirl said:

odd fact-I know that vinnie's wife was murdered.

did anyone else in gnr share axl's racism? I always thought izzy did, since they were from the same hometown

Axl is a weird case. He had some lyrics that said the ''n'' word but he also had lyrics talking down white people and many other races. Pretty sure he just hates everyone

Izzy has had many African American members on his solo projects and is also good friend's with RZA and Red Man.

And he is still very tight with Slash(Who a lot of people forget is half black )

Yeah Axl is just weird, not racist. He is actually an equal opportunity hater.

JoeTyler said:

scriptgirl said:

odd fact-I know that vinnie's wife was murdered.

did anyone else in gnr share axl's racism? I always thought izzy did, since they were from the same hometown

not a clue about Izzy, but he probably isn't, I mean: he HATED Axl at least for some years after leaving gnr; wasn't Izzy the anti-Axl of the band, fake friendship and all??

Duff and Slash are definitely NOT racists, Slash's mother is caribbean if I'm not mistaken

that dreadful song (One in a Million) saw the light of day just because Axl was already out of control in 1988, and he convinced his repulsed bandmates by telling them that that the lyrics were about the vibe of his hometown, not about his own views: BOLLOCKS

Slash's mother was from the United States and black. I don't think she was Caribbean.

In due time, Kraftwerk and Kiss will both be in the RNRHOF

rdhull said:

In due time, Kraftwerk and Kiss will both be in the RNRHOF

Kraftwerk hopefully will get another chance around September of this year for another nomination and possible induction. I think Deep Purple has to get in first before Kiss is finally in.

how were axl and izzy fake friends?

scriptgirl said:

how were axl and izzy fake friends?

a person like Axl cannot have friends, just temporary collaborators, Izzy was (is) way too weird/shy to develop a true friendship with anyone

i don't care if they were from the same hometown, Axl and Izzy quickly learned to hate each other, period, lol

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

not a clue about Izzy, but he probably isn't, I mean: he HATED Axl at least for some years after leaving gnr; wasn't Izzy the anti-Axl of the band, fake friendship and all??

Duff and Slash are definitely NOT racists, Slash's mother is caribbean if I'm not mistaken

that dreadful song (One in a Million) saw the light of day just because Axl was already out of control in 1988, and he convinced his repulsed bandmates by telling them that that the lyrics were about the vibe of his hometown, not about his own views: BOLLOCKS

Slash's mother was from the United States and black. I don't think she was Caribbean.

i see, I was def mistaken, perhaps I thought of someone else

^ I don't think Izzy would be showing up in his concerts if he hated Axl's guts. Then again who knows?

scriptgirl said:

How and when did Izzy meet RZA and Red Man and what black folk did he have on his solo projects-Is there photographic evidence?

Geesh you are really hardcore about this

The great Tony Macalpine played on one of Izzy's solo album & toured with him

I can't find pics cause it's very known Izzy doesn't take photos nearly at all. He didn't even show up too to his R&R hall of fame induction.

As for RZA, Mike Patton from Faith No More is cool with RZA and Izzy. Mike was doing some soundtrack work with RZA and the rapper Rahzel of PATTON & Rahzel and had Izzy come do some ghost guitar work for it.

that dreadful song (One in a Million) saw the light of day just because Axl was already out of control in 1988, and he convinced his repulsed bandmates by telling them that that the lyrics were about the vibe of his hometown, not about his own views: BOLLOCKS

At the time of that controversy I was remembering another song about someone from a small town coming to LA and interacting with other races for the first time, "Los Angeles" by X.

She had to leave
Los Angeles
All her toys go 'round in black and her boys had too
She started to hate every n*** and Jew
Every Mexican that gave her lotta shit
Every homosexual and the idle rich
Idle rich
She had to get out

X, I'm sure, would have explained it was a song about a CHARACTER, not themselves. Oh, of course it's not us, we didn't leave Los Angeles after all! I don't remember anyone accusing them of BEING racists.

But people didn't seem to accept that Axl might be doing the same thing.

In both cases, I suspect they're acts that wanted the shock of hearing the word without intending it to say "I don't like black people." It's one of the most ill-advised methods of making yourself look edgy, using forbidden language.

Among punks, I think a lot of them had the attitude that "we're so far from racist, it should be obvious, so therefore we feel entitled to use shocking language as a provocation." That might be passable if you're X, an obscure downtown band with a small following and a lot of critical respect. They had a lot of sharp, Raymond Chandler like lyrics and so people gave them a pass.

But in 1989, Axl was not getting any passes. Still isn't from the looks of it. I don't know him, nor do I much like his personality from what I know. But I find it hard that a band with a half-black guitarist would play an overtly, intentionally racist song.

JoeTyler said:

scriptgirl said:

how were axl and izzy fake friends?

a person like Axl cannot have friends, just temporary collaborators, Izzy was (is) way too weird/shy to develop a true friendship with anyone

i don't care if they were from the same hometown, Axl and Izzy quickly learned to hate each other, period, lol

EXACTLY. Axl has been a trouble maker since he was younger & not one to keep friend's.

This is why he never keeps the same band members for longer then a few years

Slash gave an interview about one in a million in the late 80s- I read it in my college library-it was on microfiche or something, I think. Anyway, he said something to the effect that axl knew better than to use the n word around him and that he told axl his mom was black and it wasn't cool.

one thing, I do know, my older cousin Reena said the fact that Slash was half black did not come out for the LONGEST time. She said that she, like most black people, can tell when someone else is part black and most black people including her, were shocked when they found out. Course, a lot of black people weren't checking for GNR even before One in a Million.

My cousin said she thought Slash was Latino. She also said that black people have never really claimed Slash and I have to agree with that.

bobzilla77 said:

that dreadful song (One in a Million) saw the light of day just because Axl was already out of control in 1988, and he convinced his repulsed bandmates by telling them that that the lyrics were about the vibe of his hometown, not about his own views: BOLLOCKS

At the time of that controversy I was remembering another song about someone from a small town coming to LA and interacting with other races for the first time, "Los Angeles" by X.

She had to leave
Los Angeles
All her toys go 'round in black and her boys had too
She started to hate every n*** and Jew
Every Mexican that gave her lotta shit
Every homosexual and the idle rich
Idle rich
She had to get out

X, I'm sure, would have explained it was a song about a CHARACTER, not themselves. Oh, of course it's not us, we didn't leave Los Angeles after all! I don't remember anyone accusing them of BEING racists.

But people didn't seem to accept that Axl might be doing the same thing.

In both cases, I suspect they're acts that wanted the shock of hearing the word without intending it to say "I don't like black people." It's one of the most ill-advised methods of making yourself look edgy, using forbidden language.

Among punks, I think a lot of them had the attitude that "we're so far from racist, it should be obvious, so therefore we feel entitled to use shocking language as a provocation." That might be passable if you're X, an obscure downtown band with a small following and a lot of critical respect. They had a lot of sharp, Raymond Chandler like lyrics and so people gave them a pass.

But in 1989, Axl was not getting any passes. Still isn't from the looks of it. I don't know him, nor do I much like his personality from what I know. But I find it hard that a band with a half-black guitarist would play an overtly, intentionally racist song.

There's a lot of acts who have actually used "offensive words" like the ones Axl used and yet they don't get attacked. I think Axl trying to "explain" things didn't help matters either. The real intention is real murky. Some of the punk acts didn't quite escaped being labeled as racist especially those that played around with symbols associated often with hatred (by the way that swastika wasn't intended for hatred, it actually meant eternity and success but somehow the Nazis turned it into a symbol of "pride" when it really wasn't that at all) and as a result of that (and putting them together with Eric Clapton's own racist comments) UK rock acts produced their Rock Against Racism festivals. For some, one act or one song proves it for some people that they must harbor racist intentions.

Gunsnhalen said:

JoeTyler said:

a person like Axl cannot have friends, just temporary collaborators, Izzy was (is) way too weird/shy to develop a true friendship with anyone

i don't care if they were from the same hometown, Axl and Izzy quickly learned to hate each other, period, lol

EXACTLY. Axl has been a trouble maker since he was younger & not one to keep friend's.

This is why he never keeps the same band members for longer then a few years

Axl is an undiagnosed bipolar mess, or probably a paranoid schizophrenic... anybody who is (or was?) that talented are not sane anyway.

scriptgirl said:

Slash gave an interview about one in a million in the late 80s- I read it in my college library-it was on microfiche or something, I think. Anyway, he said something to the effect that axl knew better than to use the n word around him and that he told axl his mom was black and it wasn't cool.

one thing, I do know, my older cousin Reena said the fact that Slash was half black did not come out for the LONGEST time. She said that she, like most black people, can tell when someone else is part black and most black people including her, were shocked when they found out. Course, a lot of black people weren't checking for GNR even before One in a Million.

My cousin said she thought Slash was Latino. She also said that black people have never really claimed Slash and I have to agree with that.

Black folks have a misconception of how "black" is supposed to look. Once it was confirmed Slash was a biracial "Brother", it made sense to me. Some light-skinned blacks get dismissed by blacks because of the "half-breed" connotation. Some never consider someone like Eartha Kitt for example being a black woman or being part of their "circle" or whatever. The human race is a weird species.

scriptgirl said:

Slash gave an interview about one in a million in the late 80s- I read it in my college library-it was on microfiche or something, I think. Anyway, he said something to the effect that axl knew better than to use the n word around him and that he told axl his mom was black and it wasn't cool.

one thing, I do know, my older cousin Reena said the fact that Slash was half black did not come out for the LONGEST time. She said that she, like most black people, can tell when someone else is part black and most black people including her, were shocked when they found out. Course, a lot of black people weren't checking for GNR even before One in a Million.

My cousin said she thought Slash was Latino. She also said that black people have never really claimed Slash and I have to agree with that.

Hmmm i have to disagre with that.

Maybe within people in your town black were not checking for GNR but i know were i come from they were most popular with African Americanss and Latinos back in the day.

I think just depends on different areas, people etc.

Plus i mean Appetite sold 18 million records in the U.S i doubt it was all white people buying it

It all just depends on the person, not every black person in the 80's was an R&B/Rap fan & not every white person was just into rock

Timmy84 said:

scriptgirl said:

Slash gave an interview about one in a million in the late 80s- I read it in my college library-it was on microfiche or something, I think. Anyway, he said something to the effect that axl knew better than to use the n word around him and that he told axl his mom was black and it wasn't cool.

one thing, I do know, my older cousin Reena said the fact that Slash was half black did not come out for the LONGEST time. She said that she, like most black people, can tell when someone else is part black and most black people including her, were shocked when they found out. Course, a lot of black people weren't checking for GNR even before One in a Million.

My cousin said she thought Slash was Latino. She also said that black people have never really claimed Slash and I have to agree with that.

Black folks have a misconception of how "black" is supposed to look. Once it was confirmed Slash was a biracial "Brother", it made sense to me. Some light-skinned blacks get dismissed by blacks because of the "half-breed" connotation. Some never consider someone like Eartha Kitt for example being a black woman or being part of their "circle" or whatever. The human race is a weird species.

You & script do have this right i must say. There are people still today who think Slash is just tan not half black which i'm like really?

I never thought Eartha was half black till I read that book of hers and I still have doubts she is telling the truth-who knows who her dad is? She looks 100% black to me.

Then again, you have people like Jennifer Beals and Claudia Mason who are half black and look totally white.

I never heard of black people rejecting Eartha

I still don't think Slash looks half black. To me, he looks Latino or Native American and I say that as someone who is a very light skinned black who has been mistaken for white and being biracial. Most of the time I am right on re who is half black, but hey, I think Jessica Alba looks half black.

scriptgirl said:

I never thought Eartha was half black till I read that book of hers and I still have doubts she is telling the truth-who knows who her dad is? She looks 100% black to me.

Then again, you have people like Jennifer Beals and Claudia Mason who are half black and look totally white.

I never heard of black people rejecting Eartha

In her biography, she mentions kids in her neighborhood growing up in (I forgot which Carolina she grew up at, either North or South, I think it was South Carolina), that black kids used to dismiss her and call her "yella", which was then a derogatory term to describe biracial people who had black and white parents. Her black stepfather threw her out because he didn't wanna raise no "honky's child".

scriptgirl said:

I still don't think Slash looks half black. To me, he looks Latino or Native American and I say that as someone who is a very light skinned black who has been mistaken for white and being biracial. Most of the time I am right on re who is half black, but hey, I think Jessica Alba looks half black.

Black is not is how it's always described. There's white folks who look like they have Native American blood but they are fully mixed with European descent. I never got a Latino/Native American vibe about Slash. I always thought he was black for some reason and I was glad when it was confirmed.

Gunsnhalen said:

It all just depends on the person, not every black person in the 80's was an R&B/Rap fan & not every white person was just into rock

I've known black people that mostly liked country music and wore cowboy fashions, and one who only listened to classical.

scriptgirl said:

I still don't think Slash looks half black. To me, he looks Latino or Native American and I say that as someone who is a very light skinned black who has been mistaken for white and being biracial. Most of the time I am right on re who is half black, but hey, I think Jessica Alba looks half black.

I thought Mariah Carey was white until she said she said she had a black father.

MickyDolenz said:

scriptgirl said:

I still don't think Slash looks half black. To me, he looks Latino or Native American and I say that as someone who is a very light skinned black who has been mistaken for white and being biracial. Most of the time I am right on re who is half black, but hey, I think Jessica Alba looks half black.

I thought Mariah Carey was white until she said she said she had a black father.

Mariah Carey and the DeBarges were actually the first mixed people that made me realize you can't never tell what someone's race is. It also made me realized just how hard multiracial and biracial people have had in the world to be looked on like they were science projects. I'm sure Slash himself suffered too as a biracial man of white British and black American descent.