It seems i have learned over the years metal heads can be incredibly stupid.. or incredibly smart.

I am a bit bothered that even in 2013 there seems to be a bit of racism that still comes up in metal. For example i am a fan of the VH1 Classic show ''That Metal Show'' and every time any kind of black person if brought up they are either ''racists'' or ''scumbags''

They freaked out Public Enemy were getting into R&R hall of fame over Deep Purple and Kiss!, and all the comments were either Public Enemy is racists, woman beaters or stupid. I am curious if they do not recall the Public Enemy & Anthrax Collab?

Also on That Metal Show they have some African American metal artists on their show like the members of Living Colour, Tony Macalpine, Doug Pinnick and Tom Morelleo.

And when they have members of African American metal bands the audience asks very good questions and seem more open minded to other genres. When it is someone like Iced Earth, Death, Overkill etc. It's all metal and stupid metal heads saying fuck yeah in ever sentence.

I grew up with metal and it seems there is still a lot of racism in it. Not every meta head is a racists obviously but there still is a lot of it...

I Also have friend's of every race who love metal and they always get the comment ''What you like metal and you're black? or Asian?''

It's also sad that many African American metal bands are not as accepted as others...

It's something that bugs me cause i love the genre but wish there was not this ignorance that only white people play metal. Hell i would say the best metal bands are the kinds that are open to funk and Hip Hop ala Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine, Living Colour, Mr. Bungle & My favorite band of all time Fishbone.

So what are opinions on this? and yes i realize there can be racism in ALL music but this is specific just to metal.

It's hypocritical really. But I don't think metalheads are typically racist, it's just that a few of them spoiled the whole bunch or have been wrongfully typecasted as racist.

Racism, unfortunetaly will never die. It affects whatever subculture anyone belongs to. I think if we can accept that then we can someone gather ourselves and try to combat it. Metal music to me, well, its like this. The fans are amazing and loyal, but, the music does very little to me. I listen to some metal music. The older metal bands seem very eurocentric to me in my opnion. You forget to mention one thing! Homophobia, gee if i had a dime everytime, i encountered a metal head who called me a fag, well i would have lots of dimes. But why do i mention this? well it almost the same in way and to repeat myself, we must acknowledge our ignorance in order to combat it. I dislike metal music because of its fans, similarly, to why i have a dislike to organized religion. i am going all over the place but to me, it makes sense. Maybe i hate metal, cause i like punk?

Timmy84 said:

It's hypocritical really. But I don't think metalheads are typically racist, it's just that a few of them spoiled the whole bunch or have been wrongfully typecasted as racist.

yes this is very true.

Timmy84 said:

It's hypocritical really. But I don't think metalheads are typically racist, it's just that a few of them spoiled the whole bunch or have been wrongfully typecasted as racist.

There are a lot that are open minded... but i still find many that have the believe only white people play metal.

And you have some of the most popular metal bands like Pantera who's singer Phil Anselmo is a white power jackoff & a hateful son of a bitch as well

I love Pantera and Dimebag and Vinnie were not racists in the slightest. But Phil Anselmo is a hateful bastard and even had people screaming white power at Pantera shows int he 90s

Rococo said:

Racism, unfortunetaly will never die. It affects whatever subculture anyone belongs to. I think if we can accept that then we can someone gather ourselves and try to combat it. Metal music to me, well, its like this. The fans are amazing and loyal, but, the music does very little to me. I listen to some metal music. The older metal bands seem very eurocentric to me in my opnion. You forget to mention one thing! Homophobia, gee if i had a dime everytime, i encountered a metal head who called me a fag, well i would have lots of dimes. But why do i mention this? well it almost the same in way and to repeat myself, we must acknowledge our ignorance in order to combat it. I dislike metal music because of its fans, similarly, to why i have a dislike to organized religion. i am going all over the place but to me, it makes sense. Maybe i hate metal, cause i like punk?

I LOVE PUNK!!! but have found out recently hardcore metal hands stil hate punk

And there was some war within punk and metal in late 70's ealry 80's(Which is silly Cause Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Motley Crue are all inspired by punk)

Well i am gay myself and i will say i was not getting boys with my metal t-shirts and hair back in the day

I get what you are saying though Rococo and you are very right. But also know they best metal music are the bands open to other genres and sexuality!

Faith No More has a gay member, Judas Priest helllllo lol & Also Doug Wimbish from Living Colour is a homosexual as well.

There are a couple awesome gay icons in the genre

Gunsnhalen said:

Rococo said:

Racism, unfortunetaly will never die. It affects whatever subculture anyone belongs to. I think if we can accept that then we can someone gather ourselves and try to combat it. Metal music to me, well, its like this. The fans are amazing and loyal, but, the music does very little to me. I listen to some metal music. The older metal bands seem very eurocentric to me in my opnion. You forget to mention one thing! Homophobia, gee if i had a dime everytime, i encountered a metal head who called me a fag, well i would have lots of dimes. But why do i mention this? well it almost the same in way and to repeat myself, we must acknowledge our ignorance in order to combat it. I dislike metal music because of its fans, similarly, to why i have a dislike to organized religion. i am going all over the place but to me, it makes sense. Maybe i hate metal, cause i like punk?

I LOVE PUNK!!! but have found out recently hardcore metal hands stil hate punk

And there was some war within punk and metal in late 70's ealry 80's(Which is silly Cause Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Motley Crue are all inspired by punk)

Well i am gay myself and i will say i was not getting boys with my metal t-shirts and hair back in the day

I get what you are saying though Rococo and you are very right. But also know they best metal music are the bands open to other genres and sexuality!

Faith No More has a gay member, Judas Priest helllllo lol & Also Doug Wimbish from Living Colour is a homosexual as well.

There are a couple awesome gay icons in the genre

i don't know why, it sounds hot. lol. speaking of punk do you like queercore? like limp wrist? team dresch, etc

Gunsnhalen said:

Rococo said:

Racism, unfortunetaly will never die. It affects whatever subculture anyone belongs to. I think if we can accept that then we can someone gather ourselves and try to combat it. Metal music to me, well, its like this. The fans are amazing and loyal, but, the music does very little to me. I listen to some metal music. The older metal bands seem very eurocentric to me in my opnion. You forget to mention one thing! Homophobia, gee if i had a dime everytime, i encountered a metal head who called me a fag, well i would have lots of dimes. But why do i mention this? well it almost the same in way and to repeat myself, we must acknowledge our ignorance in order to combat it. I dislike metal music because of its fans, similarly, to why i have a dislike to organized religion. i am going all over the place but to me, it makes sense. Maybe i hate metal, cause i like punk?

I LOVE PUNK!!! but have found out recently hardcore metal hands stil hate punk

And there was some war within punk and metal in late 70's ealry 80's(Which is silly Cause Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Motley Crue are all inspired by punk)

Well i am gay myself and i will say i was not getting boys with my metal t-shirts and hair back in the day

I get what you are saying though Rococo and you are very right. But also know they best metal music are the bands open to other genres and sexuality!

Faith No More has a gay member, Judas Priest helllllo lol & Also Doug Wimbish from Living Colour is a homosexual as well.

There are a couple awesome gay icons in the genre

I didn't know Doug was gay. I feel what you're saying Rococo and I agree though there are gay fans of heavy metal. Phil Anselmo is a great singer but I think he's a fake when it comes to that shit. Then again he always struck me as a douche. RIP Dimebag.

Rococo said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I LOVE PUNK!!! but have found out recently hardcore metal hands stil hate punk

And there was some war within punk and metal in late 70's ealry 80's(Which is silly Cause Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Motley Crue are all inspired by punk)

Well i am gay myself and i will say i was not getting boys with my metal t-shirts and hair back in the day

I get what you are saying though Rococo and you are very right. But also know they best metal music are the bands open to other genres and sexuality!

Faith No More has a gay member, Judas Priest helllllo lol & Also Doug Wimbish from Living Colour is a homosexual as well.

There are a couple awesome gay icons in the genre

i don't know why, it sounds hot. lol. speaking of punk do you like queercore? like limp wrist? team dresch, etc

I just listened to Limp Wrist like a year and a half ago. Fucking hardcore man.

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I LOVE PUNK!!! but have found out recently hardcore metal hands stil hate punk

And there was some war within punk and metal in late 70's ealry 80's(Which is silly Cause Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Motley Crue are all inspired by punk)

Well i am gay myself and i will say i was not getting boys with my metal t-shirts and hair back in the day

I get what you are saying though Rococo and you are very right. But also know they best metal music are the bands open to other genres and sexuality!

Faith No More has a gay member, Judas Priest helllllo lol & Also Doug Wimbish from Living Colour is a homosexual as well.

There are a couple awesome gay icons in the genre

I didn't know Doug was gay. I feel what you're saying Rococo and I agree though there are gay fans of heavy metal. Phil Anselmo is a great singer but I think he's a fake when it comes to that shit. Then again he always struck me as a douche. RIP Dimebag.

Phil is a psycho heroin head

''sigh'' and i think Rob Halford was soft on him back in the day

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

I didn't know Doug was gay. I feel what you're saying Rococo and I agree though there are gay fans of heavy metal. Phil Anselmo is a great singer but I think he's a fake when it comes to that shit. Then again he always struck me as a douche. RIP Dimebag.

Phil is a psycho heroin head

''sigh'' and i think Rob Halford was soft on him back in the day

Can't fault Rob for trying to find any decency in him.

Gunsnhalen said:

this mah shit.

Racism, ageism, sexism, and homophobia are deep in music roots. If you're one race, sexuality, age, sex or a combination of the four you're expected to like/make a certain kind of music

White:

Straight Man- Rock

Southern Straight Man And Woman - Country

Straight Woman - Women who can't sing

LGBT - Dance and women with strong voices

Black:

Straight & Young - Hip-Hop, Rap

Straight & Old - R&B

LGBT - Soul Divas and Frank Ocean

Hispanic:

Straight Black Hispanic - Hispanic Hip-Hop

Straight Non-Black Hispanic - Music from artists from the person's country

LGBT - Gloria Estefan

I will never understand why these boundaries are made, but they are

And there was some war within punk and metal in late 70's ealry 80's(Which is silly Cause Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Motley Crue are all inspired by punk)

I was on the other side of it - full on punk kid that could not get with metal. Watch Heavy Metal Parking Lot for the kid with the zebra suit and his thoughts on punk rock (beginning with "IT SUCKS SHIT!"). I knew lots of people like that kid at my high school. After a while you just get it into your mind "it's us against them!"

Then maybe one day you hear AC/DC on the radio and find yourself going "AAAH I'm not supposed to like this but it rocks!"

As for the OP, there are a handful of openly racist metal bands just like there are racist punk bands but they sure don't speak for everyone. It IS one of the forms of rock most completely removed from the black roots of blues and R&B, it does to some extent "sound like white people."

Maybe if somebody is inclined to sit in their own little hole and never wants to be touched by another culture, metal feels like a safe place for them.

But I never saw it as racist or exclusionary in intent, it just is what it is and it seems to be a pretty "white" sound. I don't think Parliament was trying to exclusionary against white people even though that music does sound like black music, at least to this white dude.

aardvark15 said:

I will never understand why these boundaries are made, but they are

Just because someone only listens to music of their own race or culture doesn't necessarily mean they're racist. Also listening to another race doesn't necessarily mean a person is non-bigoted. Decades ago, some white people listened to black performers and went to their concerts, but said performers weren't allowed to stay in white hotels or swim in public pools and had to go through the back or kitchen in the places they performed in. Record companies sold black performer records to whites by having white models on the cover instead of a picture of the act. Some Neo-Nazi skinheads are said to like reggae and ska.

People have always tended to associate with people that have the same interests or background. The goth kids didn't hang out with the country kids, the "nerds" didn't hang out with the "jocks", someone that belongs to PETA is not likely to hang out with a member of the NRA, and so on. Many animals also form groups that exclude others of the same species.

My brother is a huge metal fan -- he's in a band, knows damn near every metal band out there, etc. He was once at a metal show and was talking to a girl who seemed really cool, but as the conversation progressed he found out she was a white supremacist. One of his bandmates is black, so you can bet he bounced out of there ASAP. My understanding from him and his friends is that there's a big divide in metal -- on the one hand you have really revolutionary bands who want to overthrow a racist, predatory capitalist society, but there's also still a nasty niche of white supremacy. Didn't Bradlee Dean, that racist, homophobic, completely crazy dude in Minnesota, have some really sad metal band that made some sort of reactionary song where he was wearing a really pathetic wig (because he doesn't actually have long hair)? I could probably find it if I Googled enough but...I kind of don't want to.

I'd say that there WAS some racism during the 80s, considering thar the hair bands had this HUGE redneck fanbase

but in the 70s, 90s or the 00s and beyond? hell naw; during the 70s any metal/hard-rock/proto-metal band recorded at least a cover of a blues standard and they were always talking about the huge influence of guys like Chuck Berry, Willie Dixon or Hendrix; and in the 90s, with that metal/rap fusion, the black community embraced modern metal; and metal has ALWAYS been huge in south america and certain asian countries

that said, it is true that heavy-metal (especially classic metal) has this (often silly) aura of "anglosaxon/germanic/viking" music for 14-40something years old white guys...

[Edited 1/3/13 4:12am]

It's not a part of the mainstream, but "nationalist", "euro-centric", "pagan mysticist" etc. themes are pretty much dominant in the underground. It's not just something that you find in metal, but also industrial, ambient and forms of modern folk music (yes, really). Any genre that sounds "dark" has plenty of those that like to toy also with "extreme subject matters" in addition to the music sounding "extreme".

The first wave of such artists used such themes for provocation and for humour, but then some of the later ones took that seriously. That's why you might find people on shows that claim to be "white supremacists". There's plenty of such folks on Internet chat rooms.

Some American fans seem to also misinterpret the "national romantic" themes used by, say, Eastern European bands to have something to do with race conflicts in the United States. The bands might oppose, for example, the growing influence of fundamentalist Islam in their countries and express that in their lyrics - but in the minds of some dumbass 20-something listeneres that's all a big part of the "white supremacist" project or something.

The music usually sounds very different from bands like Fishbone and Living Colour, so it's not really even the same thing musically.

To be honest, many of the artists and bands that I listen to from such genres seem to have some questionable views (or are associated with those that have them). Over time I've just stopped caring and have deemed it just collective brainwashing that should just go away with time. Many of the artists have denounced their earlier views as they've gotten older.

But there's no doubt about it, it's a very real phenomenon.

Trunk has a point. The Hall is stretching the definition of Rock N Roll. Public Enemy deserves to be in the Rap Hall of Fame all the way. Rock N Roll music has always been about drums, guitar, bass, vocal, piano/keyboards. Yeah, they collab with Anthrax but look whos in and look whos out.

Gunsnhalen said:

It seems i have learned over the years metal heads can be incredibly stupid.. or incredibly smart.

I am a bit bothered that even in 2013 there seems to be a bit of racism that still comes up in metal. For example i am a fan of the VH1 Classic show ''That Metal Show'' and every time any kind of black person if brought up they are either ''racists'' or ''scumbags''

They freaked out Public Enemy were getting into R&R hall of fame over Deep Purple and Kiss!, and all the comments were either Public Enemy is racists, woman beaters or stupid. I am curious if they do not recall the Public Enemy & Anthrax Collab?

Gunsnhalen said:
Also on That Metal Show they have some African American metal artists on their show like the members of Living Colour, Tony Macalpine, Doug Pinnick and Tom Morelleo.

And when they have members of African American metal bands the audience asks very good questions and seem more open minded to other genres. When it is someone like Iced Earth, Death, Overkill etc. It's all metal and stupid metal heads saying fuck yeah in ever sentence.

People buy into the artists being something that they are likely not from the image they convey thru the music. The guys from 80s party bands will get spoken to different than say the political metal bands. But really would I ask Tom Morello something about politics? Yes, cuz he is involved in things like Occupy. Would I ask Stephen Pearcy about politics? No, He sold himself as one interested in party and women. It all goes with the territory. But as I've learned over the years, the music industry is a business and many of these artists create an image to sell records from the moment they leave the gate. Are they the people that we think they are? Not 100% of the time. The man behind the mask.

Timmy84 said:

It's hypocritical really. But I don't think metalheads are typically racist, it's just that a few of them spoiled the whole bunch or have been wrongfully typecasted as racist.

I thought they were more satanic!

Gunsnhalen said:

It seems i have learned over the years metal heads can be incredibly stupid.. or incredibly smart.

I am a bit bothered that even in 2013 there seems to be a bit of racism that still comes up in metal. For example i am a fan of the VH1 Classic show ''That Metal Show'' and every time any kind of black person if brought up they are either ''racists'' or ''scumbags''

They freaked out Public Enemy were getting into R&R hall of fame over Deep Purple and Kiss!, and all the comments were either Public Enemy is racists, woman beaters or stupid. I am curious if they do not recall the Public Enemy & Anthrax Collab?

Also on That Metal Show they have some African American metal artists on their show like the members of Living Colour, Tony Macalpine, Doug Pinnick and Tom Morelleo.

And when they have members of African American metal bands the audience asks very good questions and seem more open minded to other genres. When it is someone like Iced Earth, Death, Overkill etc. It's all metal and stupid metal heads saying fuck yeah in ever sentence.

I grew up with metal and it seems there is still a lot of racism in it. Not every meta head is a racists obviously but there still is a lot of it...

I Also have friend's of every race who love metal and they always get the comment ''What you like metal and you're black? or Asian?''

It's also sad that many African American metal bands are not as accepted as others...

It's something that bugs me cause i love the genre but wish there was not this ignorance that only white people play metal. Hell i would say the best metal bands are the kinds that are open to funk and Hip Hop ala Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine, Living Colour, Mr. Bungle & My favorite band of all time Fishbone.

So what are opinions on this? and yes i realize there can be racism in ALL music but this is specific just to metal.

Metal is a very loose word. The metal i grew up listening too like Judas priest, Metallica, Dio, Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Skid Row, Motley Crue to me didn't seem racist at all. In fact Dio was catholic, Ozzy married a jew, Vince Neil is half mexican, Kirk hammet is part mexican and robert trujillio is mexican, and Sebastian Bach is Canadian haha. ANd btw the music was about chicks, drugs, dragons, and the devil. Nothing bout race. But after reading tons of autobiographies yes there was some racism but none that was above average. I'd say if anything theres more Sexism. I just can't see metal as being racist from my expirience in it.

My friend said a while ago that the name of "That Metal Show" needs to be changed to "3 Angry White Men"...angry that their 80's metal went away and it's never coming back.

Jim Florentine in particular...Any time Beyonce, Rhianna, Lil Wayne, hip-hop (etc) comes up you can almost hear the hatred coming from him. But what do you expect on a metal show? But on the other side, I've met Trunk in the past many times and he's always been cool.

I've heard and read Tommy, Nikki and Mick use the "N" word many times in the past and they never really caught any flack for it. I also remember reading that Axl and James (Metallica) did

not want Ice T and BodyCount opening for them back in 1991.

I'm not sure about Doug Wimbish being gay..I've always seen him with a beautiful blonde woman for years...but I've heard that Phil (Pantera) is gay. When Pantera first came out on the scene, Phil came across as anti-racist. I remember seeing a picture of him with a "E-RACISM" shirt on and preaching people should be accepted for who they are, not what they look like or where they come from.

I think over the years the heroin, drugs, pills, alcohol and metal fame went to his head and changed him. It's sad that there has to be labels in music.."black music, white music", etc.

Just enjoy it for what it is..if others have a problem w/ it then 'so what'?...life is too short.

I remember that video of Nikki calling a black security guard the N-word - telling the crowd to "beat that n*****'s ass". I would have jumped on stage and thrown that scrawny heroin-addicted POS into the amp head first.

Reading comments from metal fans and lowlifes like Phil Anselmo, there is a white supremacist element going on. Whatever, folks can think what they want. But fuck them and their music.

Maybe it just stems from the fact that Heavy Metal is a very aggressive form of music that fosters fanatcal loyalty in its listeners? A large portion of the audience consists of angry young men. Until about the age of fifteen or so I was not very open to other genres of music. I was extremely opinionated and pretty much stuck to hard rock/heavy metal. When I became curious and started exploring the roots of Heavy Metal was when I started getting into other types of music (blues/jazz/R & B) but a lot of people never move beyond Heavy Metal. I know that the vast majority of people I knew in high school who dug Heavy Metal as kids never really moved on and listened to any other kind of music. Maybe too much exposure to just one genre, especially a genre that is often filled with aggression and anger, causes people to turn into assholes?

[Edited 1/6/13 7:41am]

I agree with you rialb about the "angry young men" comment. Some guys I know that still listen to Megadeth or Pantera are still somewhat closeminded and living/dressing in the past. I guess they're still trying to hold on to their youth(?)

Dee Snider (Twisted Sister) did say something funny once about the homoerotic fantasy about 80's metal. You had guys onstage that looked like chicks being adored and drooled on by guys in the crowd...and you had women that were swooning to these guys onstage that looked like girls.

I guess you could say the same about R&B in the 80's also, but I found his comment amusing.

It depends on what "metal" is to you, to me when i hear Metal i think of those bands like Slayer and Testament Overkill and the extreme bands where everyone in the audience is a skinhead, that to me is where you will find alot of racism not just against black, but in skinhead town, if your white and look like you might have any friends that arent skinheads or actually dress nice, you are getting beat down, that to me is the scary side of it.

But some people think Motley Crue and Poison are Metal, shit thats not even hard rock.

Racism isnt going away, and it exits in many ways in different things, you will find it in many types of music, and its also a mindset, not so much racism as it was, but just narrow minded thinking. And sorry to say i think narrow/ignornant thinking exists more today than before

lastdecember said:

It depends on what "metal" is to you, to me when i hear Metal i think of those bands like Slayer and Testament Overkill and the extreme bands where everyone in the audience is a skinhead, that to me is where you will find alot of racism not just against black, but in skinhead town, if your white and look like you might have any friends that arent skinheads or actually dress nice, you are getting beat down, that to me is the scary side of it.

But some people think Motley Crue and Poison are Metal, shit thats not even hard rock.

Racism isnt going away, and it exits in many ways in different things, you will find it in many types of music, and its also a mindset, not so much racism as it was, but just narrow minded thinking. And sorry to say i think narrow/ignornant thinking exists more today than before

Glam Metal and Speed Metal.