mjscarousal said:

Timmy84 said:

^ No it's not.

But agree to disagree.

Yes it is.

I am speaking in terms of when Elvis was ALIVE DURING his PEAK and DURING HIS PEAK he was NO WHERE near as internationally popular as MJ was during his PEAK.

I think we do have to agree to disagree.

Nobody is suggesting Elvis was not popular but Thriller mania 80s MJ was definitly more widely known outside of America than Elvis was during his peak.

We are talking peaks, were not talking about currently

I was talking about time periods.

GoldDolphin said:

DonRants said:

I don't care what any autopsy report says. You foul-mouthed piece of human trash. I suppose you are one of those fools who think MJ only had two nose jobs. Idiot.

The problem is that you're not looking at the evidence. MJ also suffered from lupus hence the redness in his face, so with the vitiligo combined it looked very uneven! He looked like that even in the Thriller era. His skin color was never the same in the 80s because of the different diseases he had.

Good Points!

I dont see how somebody can be so sure of something but dismiss factual documentation.

LiLi1992 said:

Forget the charts, this is a very volatile category.
55-60% of the sales records of Elvis in the U.S.!
----------------------
is a debatable question, but when I think of global artists, it is in this order: 1) The Beatles 2) MJ 3) Madonna 4) Elvis.

Okay! Let each one remain with his opinion, which is based on personal experiences and observations.

Elvis easily had a bigger impact worldwide in his heyday then MJ did. Everyone young and old knew who he was. In the pop charts theres almost a "before Elvis and "after Elvis" as his impact and image was so great. Jackson during the "Thriller" era was huge in the UK, but not the same as Elvis. No way.

thesexofit said:

LiLi1992 said:

Forget the charts, this is a very volatile category.
55-60% of the sales records of Elvis in the U.S.!
----------------------
is a debatable question, but when I think of global artists, it is in this order: 1) The Beatles 2) MJ 3) Madonna 4) Elvis.

Okay! Let each one remain with his opinion, which is based on personal experiences and observations.

Elvis easily had a bigger impact worldwide in his heyday then MJ did. Everyone young and old knew who he was. In the pop charts theres almost a "before Elvis and "after Elvis" as his impact and image was so great. Jackson during the "Thriller" era was huge in the UK, but not the same as Elvis. No way.

That's exactly what I meant. I don't know how people can actually think Elvis' impact was smaller than Michael's... like I said it's all about time periods... there's music b.e. and a.e. (before Elvis and after Elvis).

Timmy84 said:

thesexofit said:

Elvis easily had a bigger impact worldwide in his heyday then MJ did. Everyone young and old knew who he was. In the pop charts theres almost a "before Elvis and "after Elvis" as his impact and image was so great. Jackson during the "Thriller" era was huge in the UK, but not the same as Elvis. No way.

That's exactly what I meant. I don't know how people can actually think Elvis' impact was smaller than Michael's... like I said it's all about time periods... there's music b.e. and a.e. (before Elvis and after Elvis).

at "B.E" and "A.E". But its true though. You look at the charts before Elvis and you see the impact. Yes rock n roll was around before him, but Elvis catapulted that sound and later on his pop sound like nobody had before or since. His famous tv performance of "hound dog" is also up there with "Motown 25" in terms of "tv events" too. Sales wise Elvis's singles sold millions upon millions worldwide.

He only didn't tour the world because of his manager. He would of otherwise done the biggest venues. He was also the highest paid actor in the 60's, despite most of his films being crap LOL

Yall need to slow down and comprehend what folks are saying before making assumptions

NOBODY said Elvis was less than MJ in US peak wise but only argued that he had a lesser degree of popularity outside of America.

You only mentioned the UK but MJ was very popular global star even outside the UK during his peak, Elvis was not on that scale globally during his peak

IN MY OPINION, I think MJ had the bigger peak US and outside US. I just think since Elvis was the first solo white male to have massive populaity they make him the poster child of it and because its just scary to think of a black man having that much popularity

[Edited 11/27/12 16:07pm]

mjscarousal said:

Yall need to slow down and comprehend what folks are saying before making assumptions

NOBODY said Elvis was less than MJ in US peak wise but only argued that he had a lesser degree of popularity outside of America.

You only mentioned the UK but MJ was very popular global star even outside the UK during his peak, Elvis was not on that scale globally during his peak

IN MY OPINION, I think MJ had the bigger peak US and outside US. I just think since Elvis was the first solo white male to have massive populaity they make him the poster child of it and because its just scary to think of a black man having that much popularity

[Edited 11/27/12 16:07pm]

I said worldwide and I stand by that. And why bring race into this? Do some black people still have a chip on their shoulder about Elvis. Wasn't his fault he was white. He loved and respected black music. Just the right timing. And of course it was a shame it had to be a white guy, but blame the industry or America at large and not him.

[Edited 11/27/12 16:20pm]

DonRants said:

mjscarousal said:

Your the one thats the fool you wasted your time to come into a thread to bash someone you dont even like. And you need help if you honestly dismiss an autospy report. I HIGHLY doubt them vultures that lives to trash this man would lie about something like that.

SEEK HELP FAST and stop trolling

Dumbass

Why is it bashing to state an obvious observation? Michael skin changed between Captain EQ and Bad..basically two years and in this documentary it shows it. Even if he had Vitiligo, Vitiligo alone is not responsible for his change in complexion. And to state the obvious is bashing?

And how do you know I don't like MJ? I think you are one of those simple minded people who think that liking an artist means they can do no wrong and that you should diefy and even name yourself after him...

I would suggest that you seek help but frankly, I think you would be wasting your money and your Doctors time.

Moron

Unfortunately only Michael could answer such questions about his changing skin colour, but whilst I do believe he had vitaligo etc..., it does seem that maybe he thought he should just go all out with his skin colour and just bascially got whiter and whiter until say "captain eo", where he looked like a white man. Rumours of skin bleeching, if true, also indicate that maybe he just hated his apppearance and wanted to change it, which also seems plausible as Mike seemed to have self esteem isues as a teenager (thanks to acne and trust me, it knocks ur confidence for years).

I dont believe vitaligo makes you turn all white. It gives you white patches all over your body, which Michael no doubt had, but it doesn't straight out turn you into a white man. Shame about his self esteem issues, but to put it bluntly, Mike just took his surgeries too far....

thesexofit said:

mjscarousal said:

Yall need to slow down and comprehend what folks are saying before making assumptions

NOBODY said Elvis was less than MJ in US peak wise but only argued that he had a lesser degree of popularity outside of America.

You only mentioned the UK but MJ was very popular global star even outside the UK during his peak, Elvis was not on that scale globally during his peak

IN MY OPINION, I think MJ had the bigger peak US and outside US. I just think since Elvis was the first solo white male to have massive populaity they make him the poster child of it and because its just scary to think of a black man having that much popularity

[Edited 11/27/12 16:07pm]

I said worldwide and I stand by that. And why bring race into this? Do some black people still have a chip on their shoulder about Elvis. Wasn't his fault he was white. He loved and respected black music. Just the right timing. And of course it was a shame it had to be a white guy, but blame the industry or America at large and not him.

[Edited 11/27/12 16:20pm]

That was kinda ignorant and unnessary. This is not about having a chip over someones shoulder

I think Elvis popularity is heavily exaggerated in terms of what it was during his peak and even currently. I think that is mostly dued because of his race and because he was the first solo male to have big popularity but that doesnt mean nobody cant or wont ever surpass that.

If mj doesnt have more popularity he has just about the same amout of popular Elvis had worldwid and I still stand by my opinion that it is more than Elvis and it was more than Elvis when Elvis was alive outside America

mjscarousal said:

thesexofit said:

I said worldwide and I stand by that. And why bring race into this? Do some black people still have a chip on their shoulder about Elvis. Wasn't his fault he was white. He loved and respected black music. Just the right timing. And of course it was a shame it had to be a white guy, but blame the industry or America at large and not him.

[Edited 11/27/12 16:20pm]

That was kinda ignorant and unnessary. This is not about having a chip over someones shoulder

I think Elvis popularity is heavily exaggerated in terms of what it was during his peak and even currently. I think that is mostly dued because of his race and because he was the first solo male to have big popularity but that doesnt mean nobody cant or wont ever surpass that.

If mj doesnt have more popularity he has just about the same amout of popular Elvis had worldwid and I still stand by my opinion that it is more than Elvis and it was more than Elvis when Elvis was alive outside America

Fair enough, but why bring race into this in the first place when talking about Elvis? Of course he was played because he was white, and your right about a black man could never be half as popular back in the 50's, but you shouldn't short shrift him because he was white. And again, why bring it up when we are talking about MJ's and Elvis's impact worldwide and the US?

[Edited 11/27/12 16:41pm]

thesexofit said:

mjscarousal said:

That was kinda ignorant and unnessary. This is not about having a chip over someones shoulder

I think Elvis popularity is heavily exaggerated in terms of what it was during his peak and even currently. I think that is mostly dued because of his race and because he was the first solo male to have big popularity but that doesnt mean nobody cant or wont ever surpass that.

If mj doesnt have more popularity he has just about the same amout of popular Elvis had worldwid and I still stand by my opinion that it is more than Elvis and it was more than Elvis when Elvis was alive outside America

Fair enough, but why bring race into this in the first place when talking about Elvis? Of course he was played because he was white, and your right about a black man could never be half as popular back in the 50's, but you shouldn't short shrift him because he was white. And again, why bring it up when we are talking about MJ's and Elvis's impact worldwide and the US?

[Edited 11/27/12 16:41pm]

I am not short changing him. I insisted he was the first solo male artist with big popularity but race had some portion to do with it. There were many entertainers and rock n roll artists doing the very thing he did that werent white during that particular era. I am not bringing it up to bash him but just to show the pure hegemony of that time period and because of that alot of what he did and popularity is overly exaggerated outside America.

mjscarousal said:

thesexofit said:

Fair enough, but why bring race into this in the first place when talking about Elvis? Of course he was played because he was white, and your right about a black man could never be half as popular back in the 50's, but you shouldn't short shrift him because he was white. And again, why bring it up when we are talking about MJ's and Elvis's impact worldwide and the US?

[Edited 11/27/12 16:41pm]

I am not short changing him. I insisted he was the first solo male artist with big popularity but race had some portion to do with it. There were many entertainers and rock n roll artists doing the very thing he did that werent white during that particular era. I am not bringing it up to bash him but just to show the pure hegemony of that time period and because of that alot of what he did and popularity is overly exaggerated outside America.

Of course Elvis being white helped, I just don't see why you had to bring that up? Music videos and MTV helped MJ, so what? We are talking purely about their levels of impact globally, not how they did it or how lucky they were. It just sounded like you have abit of an axe to grind against Elvis. I understand if your not a fan but what you were saying sounded abit personal to me.

And actually if you want to be pedantic, MJ during the "Thriller" period was not as big internationally as he became with "Bad" and "dangerous". By "dangerous" he was truly global. Both "bad" and "dangerous" outsold "thriller" outside the USA at the time of their releases in most countries (probably not now mind you), so MJ was not at his peak impact wise internationally during ""Thriller" anyway. I presume MJ's peak for you was during the "thriller" era?

thesexofit said:

mjscarousal said:

Yall need to slow down and comprehend what folks are saying before making assumptions

NOBODY said Elvis was less than MJ in US peak wise but only argued that he had a lesser degree of popularity outside of America.

You only mentioned the UK but MJ was very popular global star even outside the UK during his peak, Elvis was not on that scale globally during his peak

IN MY OPINION, I think MJ had the bigger peak US and outside US. I just think since Elvis was the first solo white male to have massive populaity they make him the poster child of it and because its just scary to think of a black man having that much popularity

[Edited 11/27/12 16:07pm]

I said worldwide and I stand by that. And why bring race into this? Do some black people still have a chip on their shoulder about Elvis. Wasn't his fault he was white. He loved and respected black music. Just the right timing. And of course it was a shame it had to be a white guy, but blame the industry or America at large and not him.

[Edited 11/27/12 16:20pm]

I blame the times. Ironically, people like Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly were able to bring people together with their music, something that the music industry undid somewhat with the Beatles or tried to until Motown took over and gave the Beats the run for their money. Michael came out at a time when a lot of changes had happened. Rock and roll and all of that. Michael simply pushed the door down that had already been broken in by Elvis and 'em.

thesexofit said:

DonRants said:

Why is it bashing to state an obvious observation? Michael skin changed between Captain EQ and Bad..basically two years and in this documentary it shows it. Even if he had Vitiligo, Vitiligo alone is not responsible for his change in complexion. And to state the obvious is bashing?

And how do you know I don't like MJ? I think you are one of those simple minded people who think that liking an artist means they can do no wrong and that you should diefy and even name yourself after him...

I would suggest that you seek help but frankly, I think you would be wasting your money and your Doctors time.

Moron

Unfortunately only Michael could answer such questions about his changing skin colour, but whilst I do believe he had vitaligo etc..., it does seem that maybe he thought he should just go all out with his skin colour and just bascially got whiter and whiter until say "captain eo", where he looked like a white man. Rumours of skin bleeching, if true, also indicate that maybe he just hated his apppearance and wanted to change it, which also seems plausible as Mike seemed to have self esteem isues as a teenager (thanks to acne and trust me, it knocks ur confidence for years).

I dont believe vitaligo makes you turn all white. It gives you white patches all over your body, which Michael no doubt had, but it doesn't straight out turn you into a white man. Shame about his self esteem issues, but to put it bluntly, Mike just took his surgeries too far....

Of his skin, I heard (and believe) that Michael had trouble evening out his skin. The makeup wasn't helping him by late 1984, in which he clearly had the Bad-era skin shade. Also, they say stress causes the most malignant vitiligo cases. Seeing what Michael had to go through between 1986 (when he was diagnosed) and 1991, I can see why they struggled because Michael was in the public eye and he didn't want his image to be a problem especially if he, as he allegedly said, "looked like a cow" due to his skin blotches. Without the pale makeup, Michael was still a light brown skinned man with darker blotches still on some parts of his skin. I think the nose and the cleft chin were the only surgeries he had and he overdid that nose bit. Acne definitely fucked him up as a teen and it never went away.

thesexofit said:

mjscarousal said:

I am not short changing him. I insisted he was the first solo male artist with big popularity but race had some portion to do with it. There were many entertainers and rock n roll artists doing the very thing he did that werent white during that particular era. I am not bringing it up to bash him but just to show the pure hegemony of that time period and because of that alot of what he did and popularity is overly exaggerated outside America.

Of course Elvis being white helped, I just don't see why you had to bring that up? Music videos and MTV helped MJ, so what? We are talking purely about their levels of impact globally, not how they did it or how lucky they were. It just sounded like you have abit of an axe to grind against Elvis. I understand if your not a fan but what you were saying sounded abit personal to me.

And actually if you want to be pedantic, MJ during the "Thriller" period was not as big internationally as he became with "Bad" and "dangerous". By "dangerous" he was truly global. Both "bad" and "dangerous" outsold "thriller" outside the USA at the time of their releases in most countries (probably not now mind you), so MJ was not at his peak impact wise internationally during ""Thriller" anyway. I presume MJ's peak for you was during the "thriller" era?

It probably came off like that because I am not a Elvis fan but I didnt intend for it to come off like that. If I implied that race was a BIG portion in his popularity or that it matter greatly than you misunderstood me. I just wanted to point that aspect out but I mainly was focusing on Elvis popularity outside US during the time of his peak.

Your last paragraph I agree with. I guess I was referring to the good publicity and no bad press MJ had during the Thriller days. But I personally think MJ was still the bigger international star outside America. He put alot of time into building that fanbase.

thesexofit said:

DonRants said:

Why is it bashing to state an obvious observation? Michael skin changed between Captain EQ and Bad..basically two years and in this documentary it shows it. Even if he had Vitiligo, Vitiligo alone is not responsible for his change in complexion. And to state the obvious is bashing?

And how do you know I don't like MJ? I think you are one of those simple minded people who think that liking an artist means they can do no wrong and that you should diefy and even name yourself after him...

I would suggest that you seek help but frankly, I think you would be wasting your money and your Doctors time.

Moron

Unfortunately only Michael could answer such questions about his changing skin colour, but whilst I do believe he had vitaligo etc..., it does seem that maybe he thought he should just go all out with his skin colour and just bascially got whiter and whiter until say "captain eo", where he looked like a white man. Rumours of skin bleeching, if true, also indicate that maybe he just hated his apppearance and wanted to change it, which also seems plausible as Mike seemed to have self esteem isues as a teenager (thanks to acne and trust me, it knocks ur confidence for years).

I dont believe vitaligo makes you turn all white. It gives you white patches all over your body, which Michael no doubt had, but it doesn't straight out turn you into a white man. Shame about his self esteem issues, but to put it bluntly, Mike just took his surgeries too far....

This girl had it ALL over her body. Vitiligo comes in a variety of different phases mainly three. One is on only one portion of the body, the other various parts and lastly entire body.

Its very possible to have vitiligo all over the body

Timmy84 said:

thesexofit said:

Unfortunately only Michael could answer such questions about his changing skin colour, but whilst I do believe he had vitaligo etc..., it does seem that maybe he thought he should just go all out with his skin colour and just bascially got whiter and whiter until say "captain eo", where he looked like a white man. Rumours of skin bleeching, if true, also indicate that maybe he just hated his apppearance and wanted to change it, which also seems plausible as Mike seemed to have self esteem isues as a teenager (thanks to acne and trust me, it knocks ur confidence for years).

I dont believe vitaligo makes you turn all white. It gives you white patches all over your body, which Michael no doubt had, but it doesn't straight out turn you into a white man. Shame about his self esteem issues, but to put it bluntly, Mike just took his surgeries too far....

Of his skin, I heard (and believe) that Michael had trouble evening out his skin. The makeup wasn't helping him by late 1984, in which he clearly had the Bad-era skin shade. Also, they say stress causes the most malignant vitiligo cases. Seeing what Michael had to go through between 1986 (when he was diagnosed) and 1991, I can see why they struggled because Michael was in the public eye and he didn't want his image to be a problem especially if he, as he allegedly said, "looked like a cow" due to his skin blotches. Without the pale makeup, Michael was still a light brown skinned man with darker blotches still on some parts of his skin. I think the nose and the cleft chin were the only surgeries he had and he overdid that nose bit. Acne definitely fucked him up as a teen and it never went away.

Iam 26 and still have acne and had it since I was about 12 (kids can get it very young these days), and considering how important your teen years are for self esteem and confidence, it knocks you for six (English cricketing term LOL).

Now times what say I had, which was normal-severe acne like Mike, and give it to a superstar known previously for being cute and adorable like MJ, and the long term effects can be devestating. Honestly I know what its like but for a child star like Mike to get it, it must of been a hell of alot worse. Plus he always seemed sensitive to begin with which just adds to the shitty thing that acne is.

mjscarousal said:

thesexofit said:

Unfortunately only Michael could answer such questions about his changing skin colour, but whilst I do believe he had vitaligo etc..., it does seem that maybe he thought he should just go all out with his skin colour and just bascially got whiter and whiter until say "captain eo", where he looked like a white man. Rumours of skin bleeching, if true, also indicate that maybe he just hated his apppearance and wanted to change it, which also seems plausible as Mike seemed to have self esteem isues as a teenager (thanks to acne and trust me, it knocks ur confidence for years).

I dont believe vitaligo makes you turn all white. It gives you white patches all over your body, which Michael no doubt had, but it doesn't straight out turn you into a white man. Shame about his self esteem issues, but to put it bluntly, Mike just took his surgeries too far....

This girl had it ALL over her body. Vitiligo comes in a variety of different phases mainly three. One is on only one portion of the body, the other various parts and lastly entire body.

Its very possible to have vitiligo all over the body

I didn't look at the video but I see your point and fair enough and well brought up. I still think some personal issues may of made Mike want to change his skin and appearance and go "all out white", just to solve his white patches but who knows?

thesexofit said:

mjscarousal said:

This girl had it ALL over her body. Vitiligo comes in a variety of different phases mainly three. One is on only one portion of the body, the other various parts and lastly entire body.

Its very possible to have vitiligo all over the body

I didn't look at the video but I see your point and fair enough and well brought up. I still think some personal issues may of made Mike want to change his skin and appearance and go "all out white", just to solve his white patches but who knows?

The point Timmy84 brought up was true, underneath the heavy powdered white makeup which was intense to even out his skin (Michael said he used makeup himself in that Oprah interview), he was a light brown skin male with white and dark brown patches. There are alot of photos of him even during the History era where he doesnt wear the makeup so heavy and you can see it.

Since Vitligo is a disorder that few individuals have and people are not use to seeing it, they automatically assume oh he bleached his skin! and I feel bad for Michael because if your as famous as him, your a easy target.

thesexofit said:

Timmy84 said:

Of his skin, I heard (and believe) that Michael had trouble evening out his skin. The makeup wasn't helping him by late 1984, in which he clearly had the Bad-era skin shade. Also, they say stress causes the most malignant vitiligo cases. Seeing what Michael had to go through between 1986 (when he was diagnosed) and 1991, I can see why they struggled because Michael was in the public eye and he didn't want his image to be a problem especially if he, as he allegedly said, "looked like a cow" due to his skin blotches. Without the pale makeup, Michael was still a light brown skinned man with darker blotches still on some parts of his skin. I think the nose and the cleft chin were the only surgeries he had and he overdid that nose bit. Acne definitely fucked him up as a teen and it never went away.

Iam 26 and still have acne and had it since I was about 12 (kids can get it very young these days), and considering how important your teen years are for self esteem and confidence, it knocks you for six (English cricketing term LOL).

Now times what say I had, which was normal-severe acne like Mike, and give it to a superstar known previously for being cute and adorable like MJ, and the long term effects can be devestating. Honestly I know what its like but for a child star like Mike to get it, it must of been a hell of alot worse. Plus he always seemed sensitive to begin with which just adds to the shitty thing that acne is.

Right. Michael was real sensitive. It's easy to see how he lost a lot of pigmentation. It was too much for him. Add to that he had lupus.

thesexofit said:

LiLi1992 said:

Forget the charts, this is a very volatile category.
55-60% of the sales records of Elvis in the U.S.!
----------------------
is a debatable question, but when I think of global artists, it is in this order: 1) The Beatles 2) MJ 3) Madonna 4) Elvis.

Okay! Let each one remain with his opinion, which is based on personal experiences and observations.

Elvis easily had a bigger impact worldwide in his heyday then MJ did. Everyone young and old knew who he was. In the pop charts theres almost a "before Elvis and "after Elvis" as his impact and image was so great. Jackson during the "Thriller" era was huge in the UK, but not the same as Elvis. No way.

The world does not consist only of the UK and the U.S., although for many are difficult to believe. Asia? Africa? Latin America? Eastern Europe?

I'm not a fan of Elvis. He never wrote a song in his own career, but I try not to be biased .... strange to me that anyone believes that with the level of development of communications in the 50's you can really talk about global!!
------------------------

well! And what years (albums) you think the peak for Elvis in the UK that are larger than Thriller and Bad?
About MJ also knew everyone (I suspect that Michael is even more famous person of the world), even in the Soviet Union, although he was officially banned in 1984
even in the UK Elvis was a singles power in first place, his albums are not among the best-selling .... de facto MJ, Madonna, and even Robbie has sold more albums already.
MJ for the period 1982-1987 in the UK has sold two albums that are in the top 10 best-selling albums ever in the UK, it is clear that he was huge in its peak. Although the British media have never been to MJ supportive. Almost all the insulting nicknames (including Wako Jacko) was given to him in the UK, but in mainland Europe, Michael was always more successful than Elvis.

Okay, I was not living at the time, I do not remember even MJ before 00's (and it was a bad time for him), but to say that Elvis was in the 50's bigger star WORLDWIDE than MJ in the 80s - I love rock music, so I often visit one rock site where the main category of people old enough - 50+ .... there was a huge topic of "how did you react to the death of Elvis?" Many people wrote that Elvis was not a huge star at the time in their countries, although these people from European countries ...

Thriller era - the biggest phenomenon in the history of music.
The album - the best-selling album of all time by a wide margin from the second place, the dance moves - one of the most famous and influential, music videos of the period divided the production of video clips "before" and "after" ... Can you really call the era of Elvis, which would be more famous and influential even in the U.S., let's leave the world.? ... I very much doubt it.

[Edited 11/28/12 1:38am]

Michael used to cake make up on his face. He did this for a long time. Flashes from cameras sometimes made this lightness appear worse than it actually was. He certainly didn't look particularly 'white' in the studio with Stevie on on the BAD25 doc.

Marrk said:

Michael used to cake make up on his face. He did this for a long time. Flashes from cameras sometimes made this lightness appear worse than it actually was. He certainly didn't look particularly 'white' in the studio with Stevie on on the BAD25 doc.

I wonder if Michael used Little Richard's Pancake 31 or whatever it was on his face that made him look like that. I always wondered that. Then again, you also have to blame Karen Faye for making his skin look clownish during the '90s.

LiLi1992 said:

thesexofit said:

Elvis easily had a bigger impact worldwide in his heyday then MJ did. Everyone young and old knew who he was. In the pop charts theres almost a "before Elvis and "after Elvis" as his impact and image was so great. Jackson during the "Thriller" era was huge in the UK, but not the same as Elvis. No way.

The world does not consist only of the UK and the U.S., although for many are difficult to believe. Asia? Africa? Latin America? Eastern Europe?

I'm not a fan of Elvis. He never wrote a song in his own career, but I try not to be biased .... strange to me that anyone believes that with the level of development of communications in the 50's you can really talk about global!!
------------------------

well! And what years (albums) you think the peak for Elvis in the UK that are larger than Thriller and Bad?
About MJ also knew everyone (I suspect that Michael is even more famous person of the world), even in the Soviet Union, although he was officially banned in 1984
even in the UK Elvis was a singles power in first place, his albums are not among the best-selling .... de facto MJ, Madonna, and even Robbie has sold more albums already.
MJ for the period 1982-1987 in the UK has sold two albums that are in the top 10 best-selling albums ever in the UK, it is clear that he was huge in its peak. Although the British media have never been to MJ supportive. Almost all the insulting nicknames (including Wako Jacko) was given to him in the UK, but in mainland Europe, Michael was always more successful than Elvis.

Okay, I was not living at the time, I do not remember even MJ before 00's (and it was a bad time for him), but to say that Elvis was in the 50's bigger star WORLDWIDE than MJ in the 80s - I love rock music, so I often visit one rock site where the main category of people old enough - 50+ .... there was a huge topic of "how did you react to the death of Elvis?" Many people wrote that Elvis was not a huge star at the time in their countries, although these people from European countries ...

Thriller era - the biggest phenomenon in the history of music.
The album - the best-selling album of all time by a wide margin from the second place, the dance moves - one of the most famous and influential, music videos of the period divided the production of video clips "before" and "after" ... Can you really call the era of Elvis, which would be more famous and influential even in the U.S., let's leave the world.? ... I very much doubt it.

[Edited 11/28/12 1:38am]

No one's denying that but did you know Elvis, Richard, Bill Haley and Chuck Berry and others ruled the Australian, South African (even in those racist times there too) and West Germany charts back in the '50s? The charts didn't just gravitate towards the US and UK then either. I don't know how you came to that conclusion... again, like I said, it was a different time period and there weren't a lot of music charts around the world as they are now.

Marrk said:

Michael used to cake make up on his face. He did this for a long time. Flashes from cameras sometimes made this lightness appear worse than it actually was. He certainly didn't look particularly 'white' in the studio with Stevie on on the BAD25 doc.

You can even tell by the fact that Captain EO was filmed in the summer of 1985, probably just a few months after We Are The World was filmed/recorded. In public Michael was still his usual brown-skinned self that the public were used to, but the cake make-up came in around then on film. You can see in the Captain EO dance rehearsals (on the Private Home Movies special) that it looks like Thriller Michael, but when they filmed it he changed.

The Bad video was even shot at the end of 1986, but you can see Michael as late as 1989 at award shows several shades darker than he was in videos years before. Some people are quite ignorant to just how much make-up he used to even out his skin at the time.

Being constantly in the spotlight too compared to other people with Vitiligo must have been extremely upsetting for him. I've known people with Vitiligo. Living in a big city, it's really not as uncommon as some people like to believe.

^ Yep. I recall seeing a brown-skinned MJ around 1990, '91 just right before the release of Dangerous. For most of the videos, he was caked the fuck up in makeup.

Ellie said:

Marrk said:

Michael used to cake make up on his face. He did this for a long time. Flashes from cameras sometimes made this lightness appear worse than it actually was. He certainly didn't look particularly 'white' in the studio with Stevie on on the BAD25 doc.

You can even tell by the fact that Captain EO was filmed in the summer of 1985, probably just a few months after We Are The World was filmed/recorded. In public Michael was still his usual brown-skinned self that the public were used to, but the cake make-up came in around then on film. You can see in the Captain EO dance rehearsals (on the Private Home Movies special) that it looks like Thriller Michael, but when they filmed it he changed.

The Bad video was even shot at the end of 1986, but you can see Michael as late as 1989 at award shows several shades darker than he was in videos years before. Some people are quite ignorant to just how much make-up he used to even out his skin at the time.

Being constantly in the spotlight too compared to other people with Vitiligo must have been extremely upsetting for him. I've known people with Vitiligo. Living in a big city, it's really not as uncommon as some people like to believe.

yes I've seen people with vitiligo too, and girls who have lost their pigment that have been very emotional about it

Plus in MITM in Moonwalker and the Oscars with Madonna, he is darker too IMO, so how he looked in the Bad video is probably him trying to figure out what worked and what didn't.

I really hate to bring this up but I'm sure everyone saw Michael's autopsy picture during Conrad Murray trial. It was absolutely unnecessary and disrespectful for them to show that photo but in a way, and seriously I hate myself for saying this but I'm also a bit relieved that people could see yet another evidence of vitiligo on him. In that picture it clearly shows Michael's skin was still so uneven and he had dark spots on his legs, arms and neck and even on his face, I believe. If he could use skin bleaching or chemical treatment or whatever to make himself turn completely white, (In fact I have yet to find a product/procedure that can permanently turn someone's skin color completely pale) why would he have left those spots and depended on makeup? That makes no sense. So I think it's safe to say he never wanted to turn completely white. He wore makeup to even out his skin for the public and he simply chose to go with lighter color because the condition got so extensive it was easier and it probably saved so much time to go with lighter color than to paint him all brown again.

Emancipation89 said:

thesexofit said:

I didn't look at the video but I see your point and fair enough and well brought up. I still think some personal issues may of made Mike want to change his skin and appearance and go "all out white", just to solve his white patches but who knows?

I really hate to bring this up but I'm sure everyone saw Michael's autopsy picture during Conrad Murray trial. It was absolutely unnecessary and disrespectful for them to show that photo but in a way, and seriously I hate myself for saying this but I'm also a bit relieved that people could see yet another evidence of vitiligo on him. In that picture it clearly shows Michael's skin was still so uneven and he had dark spots on his legs, arms and neck and even on his face, I believe. If he could use skin bleaching or chemical treatment or whatever to make himself turn completely white, (In fact I have yet to find a product/procedure that can permanently turn someone's skin color completely pale) why would he have left those spots and depended on makeup? That makes no sense. So I think it's safe to say he never wanted to turn completely white. He wore makeup to even out his skin for the public and he simply chose to go with lighter color because the condition got so extensive it was easier and it probably saved so much time to go with lighter color than to paint him all brown again.

I was upset about the picture, but I probably felt something similar too. I felt it didn't look "like him" but I was dissociating so much cause the whole thing was upsetting though I knew it was him. I also agree he probably wore lighter makeup out of convenience and sometimes wondered if he was thinking of wearing something darker again, like something nice for those tv guide and ebony photoshoots in the 00's, for which he used a different makeup artist.

Michael remained with a mostly light brown skin complexion but it's just the vitiligo gradually destroyed most of the pigmentation, which led to him using makeup as obsessively as he did.