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Reply #210 posted 12/08/12 5:27am

MiniJamesW

Ellie said:

MiniJamesW said:

I don't think it's ridiculous for someone to think that Elvis Presley had a bigger peak than MJ, Elvis Presley is the best-selling solo music artist of all time and one of the most famous people ever. I agree that MJ was more international though, even though Elvis himself is well-known all over the world, I don't think his music is. I've lived in different countries and even though they know who Elvis is, few can name even one song of his (and those that do can't name more then one, Heartbreak Hotel). On the other hand, everyone knows Billie Jean, Beat It, Thriller, and most of his singles from his first three adult solo albums.

Of course it was a different era, so that is one reason Elvis isn't as international but I think it's still arguable who had the bigger peak. I don't think it is an obvious answer for either as some people seem to present it. Not that it matters much anyways, both were awesome artists who changed the music world in a significant way and were both Kings in their own right.

True. It's hard to measure too because they were just different eras. It's like comparing Katy Perry's album to Bad, or Rihanna who thanks to downloads and releasing about 100 singles, is now in the Top 10 biggest selling singles artists of all time. You just can't compare when quoting figures and suddenly say that Rihanna is on her way to becoming bigger than Madonna. She really isn't.

I agree.

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Reply #211 posted 12/08/12 1:24pm

mookie

MiniJamesW said:

I don't think it's ridiculous for someone to think that Elvis Presley had a bigger peak than MJ, Elvis Presley is the best-selling solo music artist of all time and one of the most famous people ever. I agree that MJ was more international though, even though Elvis himself is well-known all over the world, I don't think his music is. I've lived in different countries and even though they know who Elvis is, few can name even one song of his (and those that do can't name more then one, Heartbreak Hotel). On the other hand, everyone knows Billie Jean, Beat It, Thriller, and most of his singles from his first three adult solo albums.

Of course it was a different era, so that is one reason Elvis isn't as international but I think it's still arguable who had the bigger peak. I don't think it is an obvious answer for either as some people seem to present it. Not that it matters much anyways, both were awesome artists who changed the music world in a significant way and were both Kings in their own right.

[Edited 12/7/12 20:08pm]

Well said.

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Reply #212 posted 12/08/12 4:42pm

Harlepolis

So, I didn't know about the califorina raisins commercial until this very day, what in the grapevine FOCK? eek

Doesn't sound like him though. Is there a full song circulating somewhere?

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Reply #213 posted 12/08/12 5:19pm

ViintageJunkii
e

avatar

Harlepolis said:

So, I didn't know about the califorina raisins commercial until this very day, what in the grapevine FOCK? eek

Doesn't sound like him though. Is there a full song circulating somewhere?

He's not singing on the record. He only does the talking part at the end

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Reply #214 posted 12/08/12 5:27pm

Timmy84

Harlepolis said:

So, I didn't know about the califorina raisins commercial until this very day, what in the grapevine FOCK? eek

Doesn't sound like him though. Is there a full song circulating somewhere?

As Viintage said, he only did the talking part. I'm surprised you didn't know about this.

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Reply #215 posted 12/08/12 5:30pm

babybugz

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lol

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Reply #216 posted 12/08/12 10:27pm

Ellie

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Oddly in the Bad 25 documentary Michael is listed as a perfomer of I Heard It Through The Grapevine. I wanna know who was responsile for that little error - shame on them! lol

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Reply #217 posted 12/08/12 10:43pm

Timmy84

Ellie said:

Oddly in the Bad 25 documentary Michael is listed as a perfomer of I Heard It Through The Grapevine. I wanna know who was responsile for that little error - shame on them! lol

LOL that's more than just a little error haha

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Reply #218 posted 12/09/12 9:46am

SamSamba

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Just watched the Spike Lee Bad25 (ABC broadcast) doc. Generally enjoyed it. A couple of thoughts/questions:

- The part where Siedah and MJ are singing "I Just Can't Stop..." in the studio, was it from the actual recording session, or is it the music video for the track? I don't remember and can't be bothered to check if that's the case. But if it was from the session, it just proves my theory that some of these legendary recording sessions are indeed captured on film...but are kept in archives.

- As a musician, I wished Spike would've concentrated more on the musical side of things - or edited a longer version where he does so. Interview more musicians, have professionals mess with the multitracks, demos etc..I'm sure Questlove would've had a thing or two to say from that perspective as well. This seemed to focus a lot on the dancing/choreography, the music videos.

- MJ's vocal exercises blew my mind...I had no idea he was able to go that deep.

- Kind of odd, that Quincy wasn't interviewed (the interviews were from the past, and I think more recent comments were audio only). Then again, these days he's really getting on in years...the few recent interviews I've seen of him, he seems really incoherent and just rambling all over the place.

- What show was "Another Part Of Me" from? Is it from the Wembley DVD? It looked really good quality. The video just said "European Tour" or something?

- My keen visual eye couldn't help but wonder how the main font used for the film was something really generic. Made it look like Spike edited the thing together in iMovie or something, lol.

- The "Mirror" performance in the end was mostly lip-synced (MJ's vocals, that is - the band and background singers were playing/singing on top of it), sadly... MJ was one of the best STUDIO singers there was (not only as a soloist but as a background singer as well), but LIVE he was notoriously flaky...there is quite a lot of proof of this.

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Reply #219 posted 12/09/12 11:03am

mjscarousal

SamSamba said:

Just watched the Spike Lee Bad25 (ABC broadcast) doc. Generally enjoyed it. A couple of thoughts/questions:

- The part where Siedah and MJ are singing "I Just Can't Stop..." in the studio, was it from the actual recording session, or is it the music video for the track? I don't remember and can't be bothered to check if that's the case. But if it was from the session, it just proves my theory that some of these legendary recording sessions are indeed captured on film...but are kept in archives.

- As a musician, I wished Spike would've concentrated more on the musical side of things - or edited a longer version where he does so. Interview more musicians, have professionals mess with the multitracks, demos etc..I'm sure Questlove would've had a thing or two to say from that perspective as well. This seemed to focus a lot on the dancing/choreography, the music videos.

- MJ's vocal exercises blew my mind...I had no idea he was able to go that deep.

- Kind of odd, that Quincy wasn't interviewed (the interviews were from the past, and I think more recent comments were audio only). Then again, these days he's really getting on in years...the few recent interviews I've seen of him, he seems really incoherent and just rambling all over the place.

- What show was "Another Part Of Me" from? Is it from the Wembley DVD? It looked really good quality. The video just said "European Tour" or something?

- My keen visual eye couldn't help but wonder how the main font used for the film was something really generic. Made it look like Spike edited the thing together in iMovie or something, lol.

- The "Mirror" performance in the end was mostly lip-synced (MJ's vocals, that is - the band and background singers were playing/singing on top of it), sadly... MJ was one of the best STUDIO singers there was (not only as a soloist but as a background singer as well), but LIVE he was notoriously flaky...there is quite a lot of proof of this.

Where is this proof? razz BAD was not 100% mimed. When MJ wasnt lip in his prime, MJ was a stellar live vocalist most have complimented him on this. Its very difficult to sing and dance at the same time and he did that on BAD and previous concerts

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Reply #220 posted 12/09/12 12:36pm

alphastreet

Bad was live on Yokahoma, but I've heard it's not at Wembley though they sound the same, so I'm thinking it was part live and part lip synched maybe.

I wish mj sang MITM live once, but he did do live adlibs for it, and his full version of roughly singing it was on Dangerous rehearsal tapes.

There was never a I Just can't stop loving you video, this is a studio session that's rare.

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Reply #221 posted 12/09/12 12:45pm

LiLi1992

avatar

SamSamba said:

Just watched the Spike Lee Bad25 (ABC broadcast) doc. Generally enjoyed it. A couple of thoughts/questions:

- The "Mirror" performance in the end was mostly lip-synced (MJ's vocals, that is - the band and background singers were playing/singing on top of it), sadly... MJ was one of the best STUDIO singers there was (not only as a soloist but as a background singer as well), but LIVE he was notoriously flaky...there is quite a lot of proof of this.

I do not know, I have not seen of documentary.
But as far as I know, Man in the mirror always 50/50.
But, frankly, I've always liked a lot more the second (live) part.

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Reply #222 posted 12/09/12 1:07pm

SamSamba

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mjscarousal said:

Where is this proof? razz

MJ was a stellar live vocalist

Its very difficult to sing and dance at the same time

- I base my opinion on the ones I've seen from his solo tours...one of the best (worst) examples is the Live In Bucharest DVD, but there are examples of it on the Yokohama concert as well.

- He was a stellar vocalist, yes...just not a stellar live vocalist. wink

- He didn't dance during Man In Mirror. Otherwise it's a valid "excuse". Dancing takes its toll on "clean" singing and it's more understandable.

LiLi1992 said:

But as far as I know, Man in the mirror always 50/50.

Yeah, like I said, it was a mixture of both ("mostly lip-synced"). And he did do the adlib thing in the end, which was spot-on.

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Reply #223 posted 12/09/12 1:24pm

LiLi1992

avatar

SamSamba said:

- I base my opinion on the ones I've seen from his solo tours...one of the best (worst) examples is the Live In Bucharest DVD, but there are examples of it on the Yokohama concert as well.

- He was a stellar vocalist, yes...just not a stellar live vocalist. wink

LiLi1992 said:

But as far as I know, Man in the mirror always 50/50.

Yeah, like I said, it was a mixture of both ("mostly lip-synced"). And he did do the adlib thing in the end, which was spot-on.

Even in times of Triumph and Destiny tours? wink

What songs were performed play-back during Bad tour?
3 of 17? this is a very small part wink

MJ started using a lot of really play-back in times of Dangerous tour, and he did not sing live even slow songs (this argument is the fact that the problem was not dancing lol ).
Although rehearsals were always fully live ...
why he started to prefer the play-back?
I think that his perfectionism was reaching its peak and became painful forms at this time .... MJ just stopped to satisfy his live vocals. confused

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Reply #224 posted 12/09/12 1:51pm

bigd74

avatar

ViintageJunkiie said:

Harlepolis said:

So, I didn't know about the califorina raisins commercial until this very day, what in the grapevine FOCK? eek

Doesn't sound like him though. Is there a full song circulating somewhere?

He's not singing on the record. He only does the talking part at the end

I loved that part of the docu, the video where he's describing how wants the raisins to act, like he's thinking about it way too much smile

She Believed in Fairytales and Princes, He Believed the voices coming from his stereo

If I Said You Had A Beautiful Body Would You Hold It Against Me?
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Reply #225 posted 12/09/12 2:08pm

LiLi1992

avatar

bigd74 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

He's not singing on the record. He only does the talking part at the end

I loved that part of the docu, the video where he's describing how wants the raisins to act, like he's thinking about it way too much smile

lol

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Reply #226 posted 12/09/12 2:15pm

mjscarousal

SamSamba said:

mjscarousal said:

Where is this proof? razz

MJ was a stellar live vocalist

Its very difficult to sing and dance at the same time

- I base my opinion on the ones I've seen from his solo tours...one of the best (worst) examples is the Live In Bucharest DVD, but there are examples of it on the Yokohama concert as well.

- He was a stellar vocalist, yes...just not a stellar live vocalist. wink

- He didn't dance during Man In Mirror. Otherwise it's a valid "excuse". Dancing takes its toll on "clean" singing and it's more understandable.

Which ones are those? I dont think thats a fair assessment because on the Destiny and Victory Tour even on the BAD tour Michael showed that he was a great live singer. You only mention a few parts on BAD that were mime but besides that BAD was majority live.

If that is your opinion than I can accept that.

I just dont agree with it though, I honestly think you need to look at more concert footages where he is singing live.

even on Dangerous where he sings Human Nature live, its completely stellar while dancing.

Also, when I said it is hard to sing and dance at the same time I was not specifically talking about that MITM clip, I was speaking of past concerts where Michael singed and danced at the same time and it was completely stellar. I havent seen no other performer match that ability to do those two things at the same time. He mostly did that during Destiny and Victory and during BAD started using playback a little bit.

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Reply #227 posted 12/09/12 2:56pm

Ellie

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The only lip synced songs on the Bad tour were Bad (although live on 1st leg); Smooth Criminal verses; Man In The Mirror (up until end ad-libs); The Way You Make Me Feel.

As far as I know that's it. The Dangerous Live in Bucharest is criminally high on the lip syncing due to vocal chord problems that were starting to occur as the tour went on, but earlier on it was more consistently live and wonderful too.

I'd suggest you watch the entire Bad 25 documentary - not the crappy ABC broadcast, and also the Wembley Bad Tour DVD as his voice is absolutely spectacular throughout most of it.

The Another Part of Me shown on the documentary is weird though because the camera angles are very different to the Wembley DVD and it's obviously not the video version we all know. I think they've used alternate camera shots but the audio is from Wembley as it's ever so slightly out with the lip sync in one or two places. That may just be the best audio they have.

[Edited 12/9/12 14:57pm]

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Reply #228 posted 12/09/12 3:44pm

ViintageJunkii
e

avatar

SamSamba said:

Just watched the Spike Lee Bad25 (ABC broadcast) doc. Generally enjoyed it. A couple of thoughts/questions:

- The part where Siedah and MJ are singing "I Just Can't Stop..." in the studio, was it from the actual recording session, or is it the music video for the track? I don't remember and can't be bothered to check if that's the case. But if it was from the session, it just proves my theory that some of these legendary recording sessions are indeed captured on film...but are kept in archives.

- As a musician, I wished Spike would've concentrated more on the musical side of things - or edited a longer version where he does so. Interview more musicians, have professionals mess with the multitracks, demos etc..I'm sure Questlove would've had a thing or two to say from that perspective as well. This seemed to focus a lot on the dancing/choreography, the music videos.

- MJ's vocal exercises blew my mind...I had no idea he was able to go that deep.

- Kind of odd, that Quincy wasn't interviewed (the interviews were from the past, and I think more recent comments were audio only). Then again, these days he's really getting on in years...the few recent interviews I've seen of him, he seems really incoherent and just rambling all over the place.

- What show was "Another Part Of Me" from? Is it from the Wembley DVD? It looked really good quality. The video just said "European Tour" or something?

- My keen visual eye couldn't help but wonder how the main font used for the film was something really generic. Made it look like Spike edited the thing together in iMovie or something, lol.

- The "Mirror" performance in the end was mostly lip-synced (MJ's vocals, that is - the band and background singers were playing/singing on top of it), sadly... MJ was one of the best STUDIO singers there was (not only as a soloist but as a background singer as well), but LIVE he was notoriously flaky...there is quite a lot of proof of this.

1. It was confirmed that Michael was filming a documentary for both BAD and the BAD tour so the footage you see is from the actual recording session of the record

2. The ABC broadcast was a truncated version of the full 2 hour version. That was a big flaw when I watched it on ABC because when I watched it in theaters, I was upset when ABC cut so much footage.

3. Here's the full audio from that warm up

4. Quincy's memory is slipping... lol

5. I believe it was a mix of Wembley and Paris

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Reply #229 posted 12/09/12 3:52pm

Ellie

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One thing I also kind of want to point out is that nowadays there's very very sophistcated autotune technology. Something that Michael never used. He either lipped or sang live, and very rarely sang over a backing track - something which Janet absolutely perfected.

I just watched Rihanna tonight on the UK X-Factor final and I could have absolutely sworn she was 100% live. It certainly sounded like it until the point where she dropped the microphone from her face to her waist mid-chorus and her lead vocal was strangely still running. You almost have no idea who is lipping and who isn't now, right down to breathy voices.

Now I fucking love Prince and I have no complaints with him live at any time in a real concert, but in the past I've read comments from those "bring Prince up to take MJ down" wankers that love to quote that Sign O' The Times concert movie review that said "makes Michael Jackson look nailed to the floor". No mention of the fact that practically half that filmed show at Paisley Park was lipped compared to 3 songs on the Bad tour. It was a much more elaborate show (as was Lovesexy tour) with him stopping and starting movement/dancing wise and letting the many others on stage shine. From 1987 until at least the mid 90s Prince was almost part of a collective on stage and didn't even have to command a stadium audience single handedly.

I suppose it's a testament to Prince's longevity too. A way not to burn out with the strenuous touring he does.

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Reply #230 posted 12/09/12 10:36pm

SamSamba

avatar

LiLi1992 said:

Even in times of Triumph and Destiny tours? wink


I think that his perfectionism was reaching its peak and became painful forms at this time .... MJ just stopped to satisfy his live vocals. confused

No you guys are right, I have the Destiny Tour In London dvd, and it's great.

And I thought it would be something along those lines. He just wanted to nail that album sound / take live. And what you said about the Dangerous tour - makes sense now, since the live in Bucharest one is especially atrocious stuff.

Ellie said:

I'd suggest you watch the entire Bad 25 documentary - not the crappy ABC broadcast

Ah - I thought it was oddly short at 1hrs. Is it available somewhere? I know there's that German version floating around...but it's in German.

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Reply #231 posted 12/09/12 10:57pm

mjscarousal

eek

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Reply #232 posted 12/10/12 4:29pm

mynameisnotsus
an

Meet the man behind Michael Jackson's jackets

COURTESY PHOTO
Big job: Michael Bush, who worked with the King of Pop for 25 years, has a new book, "The King of Style: Dressing Michael Jackson.

Who would Michael Jackson have been without his jackets, shiny shoes, fedoras and gloves? His image was as iconic as his groundbreaking music and dancing, and key to his success as the King of Pop.

After 25 years behind the scenes, Jackson’s costume designer Michael Bush is stepping into the limelight. He signs copies of his new book, "The King of Style: Dressing Michael Jackson," at Book Passage on Tuesday in The City. Some of Jackson’s costumes also will be on view.

"When I met Michael, he was having some problems with costumes," Bush says. "He needed them to perform as well as he did and wanted them to be as interesting on the hanger as they were on him. He knew what he needed. He kept saying, ‘I dance the beat, you have to help me show the beat.’"

Bush first met Jackson in 1985 on the set of "Captain EO," working as a dressing assistant. After that production, he and co-designer and partner Dennis Tomkins, a former ice dancer who died in December 2011, began making costumes for Jackson.

"Michael was one of those people who could see things that you didn’t know you had," Bush says of his move from dresser to designer. Jackson also bought Bush a camera, which he used to photograph designs for his own reference.

"I shot most of the photos in the book myself because of Michael," Bush says. "He saw my slides and kept saying, ‘You should do a book,’ and I kept saying, ‘Yeah, right.’ He was just one of those mentors that could see all the different levels of how you become an artist."

In a way, Bush’s career path was ironic. As a child, he helped his mother with an alteration business and hated every minute of it. He swore off sewing until he fell into dressing work in Los Angeles in his 20s.

Bush, who frequently went to Europe to do street fashion research at Jackson’s request, says his boss’ penchant for military garb stemmed from a desire to accentuate his stage movement and be a commanding presence.

"We’d visit museums and he’d see how kings and queens used to dress, and the men were often in military gear," Bush says. "He loved the detail, the fit and how they’re designed to show off the body but made for movement."

Jackson also wanted to up the ante designwise, using leather, plastics and rubber to push a rock image.

Touring Europe to promote the book, Bush has met thousands of Jackson fans. He says, "Some of these people are soccer-playing businessmen. But they want to hold the glove."

He’s also very grateful to have worked with the superstar: "It’s astonishing what Michael has given me. Sewing was the last thing I ever wanted to do, and I ended up making some of the most photographed clothes in the world. It’s very humbling," Bush says.

IF YOU GO
Michael Bush
Where: Book Passage, 1 Ferry Building, S.F.
When: 6 p.m. Tuesday
Price: Free
Contact: (415) 835-1020, www.bookpassage.com

BOOK NOTES
“King of Style: Dressing Michael Jackson”
Written
by Michael Bush
Published by Insight Editions
Pages 225
Price $45



Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com...z2EhNSSP3N

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Reply #233 posted 12/11/12 9:13am

NaughtyKitty

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lol

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Reply #234 posted 12/12/12 4:46am

alphastreet

NaughtyKitty said:

lol

LMAO!!! I think the baby would have been good looking, but I would be afraid for his or her voice with how she was howling during billie jean at yokahoma

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Reply #235 posted 12/12/12 5:21am

OldFriends4Sal
e

Mymike.jpg

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Reply #236 posted 12/12/12 4:46pm

thesexofit

avatar

bigd74 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

He's not singing on the record. He only does the talking part at the end

I loved that part of the docu, the video where he's describing how wants the raisins to act, like he's thinking about it way too much smile

Yea, it was definately one of the highlights from the doc I thought. Also reminded me that Michael was a huge fan of Walt Disney. Disney himself would act out every part for his animators and directors, and Mike would of known that too and did something similar for the commercial.

And you just know it wasn't Spike's idea to have Justin and Chris on the doc LOL. The estate is still unfortunately trying to make Michael's music "cool for kids" and to be fair, Mike use to do that too, but if the estate is reading this, please do not try to appeal to todays kids. Todays kids love Mike for his music, and not because Bieber said he does.

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Reply #237 posted 12/14/12 1:47am

Gunsnhalen

I Wonder if it is the release of the Bad Documentary or what. But i have heard I Just Can't Stop Loving You & Dirty Diana a lot in the markets recently lol

Also i was thinking... why did a Michael & Stevie song never make it big?

I realize him & the Jackson bros sang on you Haven't Done Nothin correct?

They released Get It from Characters.. it didn't even crack the top 50 lol

I Can't from Off The Wall was written by Stevie & had him on backing vocals.. no single.

And Just Good Friend's from Bad had Stevie on it! & it was the only damn song not released in some sort of way lol Speed Demon was promotional i believe? for Moonwalker?

P.S

Mjscarousel, bet you didn't know i new some MJ knowledge razz lol jk wink

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #238 posted 12/14/12 7:05am

mjscarousal

Gunsnhalen said:

I Wonder if it is the release of the Bad Documentary or what. But i have heard I Just Can't Stop Loving You & Dirty Diana a lot in the markets recently lol

Also i was thinking... why did a Michael & Stevie song never make it big?

I realize him & the Jackson bros sang on you Haven't Done Nothin correct?

They released Get It from Characters.. it didn't even crack the top 50 lol

I Can't from Off The Wall was written by Stevie & had him on backing vocals.. no single.

And Just Good Friend's from Bad had Stevie on it! & it was the only damn song not released in some sort of way lol Speed Demon was promotional i believe? for Moonwalker?

P.S

Mjscarousel, bet you didn't know i new some MJ knowledge razz lol jk wink

I see you, I see you headbang

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Reply #239 posted 12/14/12 9:43am

bigd74

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I don't understand the hate for Just Good Friends, i still love it and always have, quite why they did a song neither of them wrote i don't know but it's still a great song smile not quite as good as Get It.

She Believed in Fairytales and Princes, He Believed the voices coming from his stereo

If I Said You Had A Beautiful Body Would You Hold It Against Me?
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