Awww, that was sweet of the executors to send Waddell that memorabilia.

what ever happend to the queen project that featured MJ duets, is it released yet ?

another really cool thing i read about in the book, is something i have heard before but it went into more detail in the book, is that while michael was in Ireland, he would very frequently have these "jam sessions" with traditional irish musicians.. They say they were blown away by how well Michael Could play instruments! They say he was an absolutly fantastic drummer! He could play guitar and bass. and they said when he would get on the piano, it was marvelous!

it tells about how Michael would work on music all day while his children where at school.Michael would take these walks on the property (which i believe was 30-50 acres, i cant remeber off the top of my head) he would walk through the woulds, by creeks, and just imbrace nature. it goes into more detail about these things, but i do not have the book on hand (i accedently left it at school) so im just kind of going of memory.

dm3857 said:

another really cool thing i read about in the book, is something i have heard before but it went into more detail in the book, is that while michael was in Ireland, he would very frequently have these "jam sessions" with traditional irish musicians.. They say they were blown away by how well Michael Could play instruments! They say he was an absolutly fantastic drummer! He could play guitar and bass. and they said when he would get on the piano, it was marvelous!

it tells about how Michael would work on music all day while his children where at school.Michael would take these walks on the property (which i believe was 30-50 acres, i cant remeber off the top of my head) he would walk through the woulds, by creeks, and just imbrace nature. it goes into more detail about these things, but i do not have the book on hand (i accedently left it at school) so im just kind of going of memory.

alphastreet said:

Nvncible1 said:

: Well I kinda think there could have possibly been some issues with colorstruckness in the family. Shit runs deep

It really wouldn't surprise me if that were true and it would be naive to assume that racism growing up didn't affect michael, but it doesn't mean he didn't want to be black either.

Could you be more specific and give an example maybe? I mean of course being a minority affects one in many different ways but I'm genuinely curious, Nvncible1, why are you assuming that not just Michael but as a family they could've been colorstruck?

Emancipation89 said:

alphastreet said:

It really wouldn't surprise me if that were true and it would be naive to assume that racism growing up didn't affect michael, but it doesn't mean he didn't want to be black either.

Could you be more specific and give an example maybe? I mean of course being a minority affects one in many different ways but I'm genuinely curious, Nvncible1, why are you assuming that not just Michael but as a family they could've been colorstruck?

I know the question was for nvncible. I'm not sure what your background is, but being a visible minority myself, I get what he's trying to say about us as a whole. The Jackson family has little to do with it. I've heard that most of them got nosejobs, and that could be a reason why this is being brought up, though most who get surgery don't consciously get it to be white, but look at beauty standards imposed upon them without looking at it deeper, mostly coming from mainstream beauty standards in western culture. I don't really believe mj got his surgeries to look less black or to look less like joe, I think in his case it was from insecurity cause of Joseph and his brothers judging him from an early age while he was in the public eye, but if they were imposing those standards on him, then it's on them, not him unless he truly started believing it. Like I said, he lived on the public stage and was feeling conscious.

[Edited 1/5/13 14:45pm]

dag said:

dm3857 said:

another really cool thing i read about in the book, is something i have heard before but it went into more detail in the book, is that while michael was in Ireland, he would very frequently have these "jam sessions" with traditional irish musicians.. They say they were blown away by how well Michael Could play instruments! They say he was an absolutly fantastic drummer! He could play guitar and bass. and they said when he would get on the piano, it was marvelous!

it tells about how Michael would work on music all day while his children where at school.Michael would take these walks on the property (which i believe was 30-50 acres, i cant remeber off the top of my head) he would walk through the woulds, by creeks, and just imbrace nature. it goes into more detail about these things, but i do not have the book on hand (i accedently left it at school) so im just kind of going of memory.

yes, ive seen that before, and have always been really fascinated with his stay in Ireland. In the book it goes more in depth, which is something i really like.

Movie director: Quentin Tarantino on Michael Jackson and Jacksons' Music Catalog

wow impressed since lots of people only know the popular hits

HAPPYPERSON said:

Movie director: Quentin Tarantino on Michael Jackson and Jacksons' Music Catalog

wow impressed since lots of people only know the popular hits

Nice post! I'm not the biggest Quentin Tarantino fan (he's great just not my style) but it's cool to see another famous visionary just appreciating some of MJ's lesser known music. Quentin sure knows his stuff as well, he seems like a big fan (except This Place Hotel is not on Destiny, it's on Triumph)! I love how The Jacksons' music is getting more appreciation!

[Edited 1/5/13 16:02pm]

^^^ thanks for that clip Happy Person!!

alphastreet said:

Emancipation89 said:

Could you be more specific and give an example maybe? I mean of course being a minority affects one in many different ways but I'm genuinely curious, Nvncible1, why are you assuming that not just Michael but as a family they could've been colorstruck?

I know the question was for nvncible. I'm not sure what your background is, but being a visible minority myself, I get what he's trying to say about us as a whole. The Jackson family has little to do with it. I've heard that most of them got nosejobs, and that could be a reason why this is being brought up, though most who get surgery don't consciously get it to be white, but look at beauty standards imposed upon them without looking at it deeper, mostly coming from mainstream beauty standards in western culture. I don't really believe mj got his surgeries to look less black or to look less like joe, I think in his case it was from insecurity cause of Joseph and his brothers judging him from an early age while he was in the public eye, but if they were imposing those standards on him, then it's on them, not him unless he truly started believing it. Like I said, he lived on the public stage and was feeling conscious.

[Edited 1/5/13 14:45pm]

That right there I totally agree. Firstly when it comes to women you have to agree it's really common in Hollywood. At the moment I honestly can't think of a single famous female celeb whether white or black who didn't get their nose done. Bey, Alicia, Mariah, Celine...oh and don't get me started on actresses. And speaking of, Halle Berry did just as much to her nose as Janet, whether someone thinks it made a huge difference or not for both of them. I swear in one of her pictures I've recently seen, I forget if it was either Vanity Fair or Interview or one of those magazines, I didn't even recognize her..I honestly thought it was J Lo lol.

And a lot of male celebs (white male celebs too that is) go through plastic surgeries too. But Jackie, Tito look pretty much the same imo. As for Jermain and Marlon, yes their nose job does show, but I don't see a huge difference. And for that...I hope no one gets all worked up about what I'm about to say but since we're on the subject, let me just say what I've always wanted to say...It's pretty obvious Prince had a nose job or two. Not only the tip of his nose looks noticeably different but it looks like he's done slight thining/refining with his nose as well. Not to mention his hair is always relaxed and in the late 90's era he even dyed his hair light brown and got some blonde highlights. There's no question in my mind he's been pursuing a certain look for the last 2 or 3 decades, and that look is far from his natural look as a black man that he briefly embraced only in the beginning of his career. Not that I have issues with this, but it is what it is. Some of my international friends who have never heard of Prince before see Prince for the first time and they think he's Latino or middle eastern or something, and that is not because he's light skinned, trust me, it has more to do with how he chooses to portray himself with all that makeup, hairstyle, etc.

I'm often surprised not a lot of people made comments about how Prince looked and called him a colorstruck mf (well there is Rick James lol) Not that I want people to be all caught up with his look, I'm just genuinely surprised. I suppose his fans' excuse has always been "oh well, at least he's not as extreme as Michael Jackson lol". But when the case is about Jacksons it's got to be linked to some sort of psychological issue or deep-rooted hatred towards their own race, and yet when it comes to Prince, it's an artistic expression or a necessary choice for his commercial success?? (some fans have said this about his mom being white in Purple Rain movie) I mean come on, where does 'personal choice of how one wants to look' stop and 'the creative expression as an artist' begin?? Or the latter just complete bs? Also, considering how many videos/movies he made, it's true I can probably count in one hand the videos he has a black girl as his major co-star. His most iconic/well known videos are always with Latinas and whites. Off the top of my head, Beautiful Experience, Black Sweat, Come On all these videos depict dark skinned black women as rather quirky/sassy girls or even almost...masculine. I can't think of a video where Prince really tried to capture the beauty or femininity of a black women like he did with women in other races for his videos..

So anyways...my point is I don't think I can fully understand how one can say the entire family could've been possibly colorstruck just because some of them got nose jobs but oh well, I guess I'll still have to hear his viewpoint.

[Edited 1/5/13 19:51pm]

Emancipation89 said:

^^^ thanks for that clip Happy Person!!

alphastreet said:

I know the question was for nvncible. I'm not sure what your background is, but being a visible minority myself, I get what he's trying to say about us as a whole. The Jackson family has little to do with it. I've heard that most of them got nosejobs, and that could be a reason why this is being brought up, though most who get surgery don't consciously get it to be white, but look at beauty standards imposed upon them without looking at it deeper, mostly coming from mainstream beauty standards in western culture. I don't really believe mj got his surgeries to look less black or to look less like joe, I think in his case it was from insecurity cause of Joseph and his brothers judging him from an early age while he was in the public eye, but if they were imposing those standards on him, then it's on them, not him unless he truly started believing it. Like I said, he lived on the public stage and was feeling conscious.

[Edited 1/5/13 14:45pm]

That right there I totally agree. Firstly when it comes to women you have to agree it's really common in Hollywood. At the moment I honestly can't think of a single famous female celeb whether white or black who didn't get their nose done. Bey, Alicia, Mariah, Celine...oh and don't get me started on actresses. And speaking of, Halle Berry did just as much to her nose as Janet, whether someone thinks it made a huge difference or not for both of them. I swear in one of her pictures I've recently seen, I forget if it was either Vanity Fair or Interview or one of those magazines, I didn't even recognize her..I honestly thought it was J Lo lol.

And a lot of male celebs (white male celebs too that is) go through plastic surgeries too. But Jackie, Tito look pretty much the same imo. As for Jermain and Marlon, yes their nose job does show, but I don't see a huge difference. And for that...I hope no one gets all worked up about what I'm about to say but since we're on the subject, let me just say what I've always wanted to say...It's pretty obvious Prince had a nose job or two. Not only the tip of his nose looks noticeably different but it looks like he's done slight thining/refining with his nose as well. Not to mention his hair is always relaxed and in the late 90's era he even dyed his hair light brown and got some blonde highlights. There's no question in my mind he's been pursuing a certain look for the last 2 or 3 decades, and that look is far from his natural look as a black man that he briefly embraced only in the beginning of his career. Not that I have issues with this, but it is what it is. Some of my international friends who have never heard of Prince before see Prince for the first time and they think he's Latino or middle eastern or something, and that is not because he's light skinned, trust me, it has more to do with how he chooses to portray himself with all that makeup, hairstyle, etc.

I'm often surprised not a lot of people made comments about how Prince looked and called him a colorstruck mf (well there is Rick James lol) Not that I want people to be all caught up with his look, I'm just genuinely surprised. I suppose his fans' excuse has always been "oh well, at least he's not as extreme as Michael Jackson lol". But when the case is about Jacksons it's got to be linked to some sort of psychological issue or deep-rooted hatred towards their own race, and yet when it comes to Prince, it's an artistic expression or a necessary choice for his commercial success?? (some fans have said this about his mom being white in Purple Rain movie) I mean come on, where does 'personal choice of how one wants to look' stop and 'the creative expression as an artist' begin?? Or the latter just complete bs? Also, considering how many videos/movies he made, it's true I can probably count in one hand the videos he has a black girl as his major co-star. His most iconic/well known videos are always with Latinas and whites. Off the top of my head, Beautiful Experience, Black Sweat, Come On all these videos depict dark skinned black women as rather quirky/sassy girls or even almost...masculine. I can't think of a video where Prince really tried to capture the beauty or femininity of a black women like he did with women in other races for his videos..

So anyways...my point is I don't think I can fully understand how one can say the entire family could've been possibly colorstruck just because some of them got nose jobs but oh well, I guess I'll still have to hear his viewpoint.

[Edited 1/5/13 19:51pm]

I agree.

And besides plastic surgery and all the race talk, I am also surprised that some other man are not criticed for being too obsessed with their looks. For example, I find David Beckham to be so in love with himself. It's surprising that nobody comments on these types of men being too obsessed with their looks. I think this concerns a lot of people in this business. It's not just about wanting to look good, it's about feeling you are so hot that you have to show it off most of the time regardless of whether you have something really interesting to say or whether you have done something really interesting. It's what Kardashians, Hiltons, Beckhams and all these people are all about. With Mike, his looks is the least interesting thing compared to what else he can offer to you. It's like people criticize MIke for being obsessed with looks while he's offering us all the art and depth of his personality, yet we don't seem to mind all those other celebrities and their idiotic obsession with looks when it seems that that's ALL they are about. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

[Edited 1/6/13 9:31am]

Very interesting comments and I agree with all of them.

I dont know why African Americans in particularly are stigmatized as being colorstruck if they get plastic surgery. Thats a personal choice and their are a variety of reasons why one chooses to get that. It does not necessarily mean they want to look less black. However, I do believe their are African American celebrities who embrace that Western ideal beauty standard particurly the women (Beyonce) but I never got that impression from Michael.

I think his reason for the surgeries was more because of his low self esteem about his appearance dued to his father and how his siblings teased him growing up about it. I do not honestly think he wanted to look less black. An interesting point was also brought up about Prince. Ironically, MJ had more African American women in his music videos and these women were not fair skin either. They were dark skin or brown skin. ex. Iman in Remember The Time, Olay- in Playboy etc. I do not see how anybody can honestly think he was not attractive to black women or did not like being black. I just think its so ignorant and people overall just fail to research on certain disorders and automatically make judgements.

I don't believe Michael was shameful of being black nor do I think he was color struck. He just had issues with himself. He had self esteem problems and possibly suffered from body dysmorphic disorder. La Toya strucks me as having the same disorder (explains her own facial and nasal surgeries). As for the nose, lots of folks in Hollywood get nasal surgeries. Doesn't really have anything to do with their ethnicity.

Emancipation89 said:

OMG Best thing I've ever read by anyone ever!!!!!!!!1!!!!1!!1!!!!!!11

GoldDolphin said:

I remember talking about it on a blog and my ex boyfriend and some other people fired me up for saying this, but spike lees letter in the 90s(or late 80s)to prince was not far from the truth. His woman have a certain look and by looking at his videos, there's a favoring of lighter latinas and white women. How can one defend that he used to claim in the beginning of his career that he was biracial, when he has a black mother and father? Yes it was partially to not be boxed as a black artist but seen as a multicultural artist, but what does that say about yourself and your feelings on being black? I also think that is quite unfair that the Jackson's always are blamed for being colors struck, while this is true to some extension ( I think it has to do with being accepted with the multicultural environment they have been brought up in) - a lot of them had had children with black or mixed black woman, or have dated black women.

Hmm when it comes to dating/marriage, I try not to judge anyone...whether it's a celebrity or a friend of mine, really. It's only natural most people have, hate to use this word but, preferences - whether they are aware of it or not. Plus for the Jackson brothers and Prince, 70's 80's were especially the time where a black man marrying a white woman was almost seen as a way of elevating social status, like white women were considered trophies for not only black men but Latinos and Asians as well. Oh and I think someone once tried to link this to MJ having Brooke Shields as his public date lol. Relationships are supposed to happen naturally but who knows. Whichever the case may be I don't really wish to micro-analyze this any further, unlike music videos this is really their private life anyways...Personally I'd never call anyone colorstruck based on who they choose to date...

I also remember being quite annoyed at the fact that prince made Mayte( an obvious mestiza, white/ amerindian and some black ancestry) into this Egyptian woman in the video for 3 chains o gold (again i know it had to do with all of that new age stuff he was into in the 90s)which is so off to me, why not celebrate her ethnicity instead of making her something she's not even related to. That's why remember the time was such an important video to many, because the truth is that the Nubians and other people that ruled Egypt were dark skinned / black people. But that's just my two cents, sorry for the rant lol. [Edited 1/6/13 18:06pm]

I never thought about this. To be fair though Prince and Mayte have always said they believed they both had some sort of previous-life connection with Egypt. You know how Prince is...he loves making spiritual, sacred association out of his relationships. I remember when I first watched their interview together when they started talking about this I was all LMAO WTF?!? But now...well I try to respect that as part of his viewpoint/beliefs. And part of it maybe is simply his attempt to romanticize his relationship in his own ideal way.

As a minority myself, that is what gets me fired up about what certain people do in my community when you have a black person with TWO black parents claiming their bi-racial just because their fair or light skin

Its really ignorant.

I remember reading in some clipping too on this site that Prince had a Filipino background as well. But honestly, since the mid 80's though young, to me he was just Prince, I didn't think about what colour he was though I'm sure I knew he was mixed with black if not completely black.

As for Prince dressing up his video and stage girls, he just wants them to look the way he wished he did if he were the opposite gender, like alter egos

mjscarousal said:

As a minority myself, that is what gets me fired up about what certain people do in my community when you have a black person with TWO black parents claiming their bi-racial just because their fair or light skin

Its really ignorant.

Yeah I agree, I can think of another artist who tried doing this awhile back too

[Edited 1/7/13 8:31am]

mjscarousal said:

As a minority myself, that is what gets me fired up about what certain people do in my community when you have a black person with TWO black parents claiming their bi-racial just because their fair or light skin

Its really ignorant.

I feel you, I'm a minority myself. It's crazy, but at the same time I think it's time many of us (speaking mostly of people of mixed ancestry in the americas) we accept the fact that many of us are a result of many things that have happend in our past. Prince didn't get the color he has, because his parents are 100 % of african bloodline, but because of his african-american experience in the US, this mix however doesn't make us superior or inferior to anyone else, it just is.

What gets on my nerve is when people try do deny their identy tho, as if being white is better or more beautiful than being black or native american (or whatever else mix you might have).

Emancipation89 said:

dag said:

With Mike, his looks is the least interesting thing compared to what else he can offer to you. It's like people criticize MIke for being obsessed with looks while he's offering us all the art and depth of his personality, yet we don't seem to mind all those other celebrities and their idiotic obsession with looks when it seems that that's ALL they are about.

OMG Best thing I've ever read by anyone ever!!!!!!!!1!!!!1!!1!!!!!!11

Hmm when it comes to dating/marriage, I try not to judge anyone...whether it's a celebrity or a friend of mine, really. It's only natural most people have, hate to use this word but, preferences - whether they are aware of it or not. Plus for the Jackson brothers and Prince, 70's 80's were especially the time where a black man marrying a white woman was almost seen as a way of elevating social status, like white women were considered trophies for not only black men but Latinos and Asians as well. Oh and I think someone once tried to link this to MJ having Brooke Shields as his public date lol. Relationships are supposed to happen naturally but who knows. Whichever the case may be I don't really wish to micro-analyze this any further, unlike music videos this is really their private life anyways...Personally I'd never call anyone colorstruck based on who they choose to date...

I also remember being quite annoyed at the fact that prince made Mayte( an obvious mestiza, white/ amerindian and some black ancestry) into this Egyptian woman in the video for 3 chains o gold (again i know it had to do with all of that new age stuff he was into in the 90s)which is so off to me, why not celebrate her ethnicity instead of making her something she's not even related to. That's why remember the time was such an important video to many, because the truth is that the Nubians and other people that ruled Egypt were dark skinned / black people. But that's just my two cents, sorry for the rant lol. [Edited 1/6/13 18:06pm]

I never thought about this. To be fair though Prince and Mayte have always said they believed they both had some sort of previous-life connection with Egypt. You know how Prince is...he loves making spiritual, sacred association out of his relationships. I remember when I first watched their interview together when they started talking about this I was all LMAO WTF?!? But now...well I try to respect that as part of his viewpoint/beliefs. And part of it maybe is simply his attempt to romanticize his relationship in his own ideal way.

I understand, I def don't judge anyone because I'm a mixture myself and have been in interracial/intercontinental relationships. I do believe that sometimes, preference is a way of being racist. Many people don't understand the complexity of post colonialism/ post slavery and it takes more than 60 years to move on from that. It doesn't mean that some people arent' going to have a sort of person they tend to favor, but sometimes I think we look at it so simplistic when the roots are deeper than we think. But yeah, it's just interesting from a wider perspective. But enough about that lol...

The Great Indian Proverb

---------------------------------------

Now this is the law of the jungle

As old and as true as the sky

the wolf that keeps it will prosper

the wolf that breaks it will die

Like the creeper that girdles the tree trunk

the law runneth forward and back

for the strength of the pack is the wolf

and the strength of the wolf is the pack

Im now on page 167 in Randall Sullivan's book untouchable. and so far, i still LOVE this book, so far it has been absolutley beautiful. Im at a part in the book where it 100% completely backs up Michael as an innocent man. i just read the infamous "he wasnt trying to be heterosexual, or homosexual, or even asexual, but rather presexual" and after thinking about it, i dont know why it upset so many people. To me, "sex" isnt even in Michael's vocabulary. Michael is a childlike being, searching for magic in everything he does. I believe Michael to be heterosexual, but i dont find the "presexual" remark rude or bashing.

MiniJamesW said:

GoldDolphin said:

mjscarousal said:

As a minority myself, that is what gets me fired up about what certain people do in my community when you have a black person with TWO black parents claiming their bi-racial just because their fair or light skin

Its really ignorant.

I feel you, I'm a minority myself. It's crazy, but at the same time I think it's time many of us (speaking mostly of people of mixed ancestry in the americas) we accept the fact that many of us are a result of many things that have happend in our past. Prince didn't get the color he has, because his parents are 100 % of african bloodline, but because of his african-american experience in the US, this mix however doesn't make us superior or inferior to anyone else, it just is.

What gets on my nerve is when people try do deny their identy tho, as if being white is better or more beautiful than being black or native american (or whatever else mix you might have).

It is important to be educated and it is also important to be educated on your culture and heritage. With that being said, most black people in the USA are not pure African American because of slavery, melting pot and other historical influences. So naturally that is going to affect ancestry and bloodline from generation to generation but that still does not change that you are black, indian etc if you have to biological black parents, indian parents etc.

When it comes to people who are actually bi-racial as in one parent being one race and the other parent being a different race, usually people choose the race their most identify with or sometimes they will just say they are bi-racial if they do not want to pick or identify with both.

But I agree with your points, for some people its like being "less black" is a good thing for some black people even other minorities who might be of darker or lighter skin and unfornately that is the result of Western Civilization influence on these other cultures and how they have falsely misrepresented them in the media for many many years.

SoulAlive said:

from a facebook page.......Click LIKE or COMMENT for these greats who are gone, but not forgotten. This photo of MJ, Coretta Scott King, and Redd Foxx is packed with greatness. I almost feel like I can place my hand on this pic and change the world! LOL. -iloveoldschoolmusic

what a strange brooch on Michael, like the Islamic

I wonder what Coretta thought about Michael later, after all the changes in his appearance?

[Edited 1/8/13 3:37am]

LiLi1992 said:

Nathanial Brown, Rebbie's husband has passed away. RIP.

R.I.P. Nathaniel Brown

http://www.jackson-source.com/news/1018-r-i-p-nathaniel-brown

From Austin Brown:

[Edited 1/8/13 7:39am]