Timmy84 said:

kibbles said:

per the contract: i have the authority to bind and commit myself and the remainder of the kj party hereto...this agreement remains binding on the party, their heirs, successors, and assigns.

so mj3's heirs - including yet to be born children - have been bound to this agreement.

no, i believe it is what's called an unconscionable contract (as i've studied as a paralegal) and those are illegal. mj3 were not afforded separate legal counsel, are too young to give their consent, and it represents a conflict of interest on kat's part. if you read the full contract, their right to privacy has been signed away as well.

http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o...kson_2.pdf

nice grandma, huh?

So in other words, whatever their father tried to do to make sure this didn't happen was reversed by the one woman he trusted...

Michael is somewhere rolling in his grave.

But still, since this came to light, how come nobody's attacking it? Where's Gloria Allred? She was all over the place when Mike dangled Blanket. Just kidding, but still.... If it's illegal, why haven't they been brought to court?

dag said:

Timmy84 said:

So in other words, whatever their father tried to do to make sure this didn't happen was reversed by the one woman he trusted...

Michael is somewhere rolling in his grave.

But still, since this came to light, how come nobody's attacking it? Where's Gloria Allred? She was all over the place when Mike dangled Blanket. Just kidding, but still.... If it's illegal, why haven't they been brought to court?

I don't know but I think it'll be brought to court after the Conrad case...which is what Katherine and 'em need to be really focused on. I'm sure they think showing up to court every day shows they are but who knows about that.

I just looked at the recent chart stats......

I Want You Back!: The Unreleased Masters only charted at #50 on the R&B album chart. WTF!

bboy87 said:

I just looked at the recent chart stats......

I Want You Back!: The Unreleased Masters only charted at #50 on the R&B album chart. WTF!

Motown hardly promoted it. Sadly except for some MJ/Jacksons fans, I doubt it really piqued any interest.

Timmy84 said:

dag said:

But still, since this came to light, how come nobody's attacking it? Where's Gloria Allred? She was all over the place when Mike dangled Blanket. Just kidding, but still.... If it's illegal, why haven't they been brought to court?

I don't know but I think it'll be brought to court after the Conrad case...which is what Katherine and 'em need to be really focused on. I'm sure they think showing up to court every day shows they are but who knows about that.

Wait, I don't get this right now. As I understand it, Katherine is also guilty of this, so I don't expect her to bring these illegal contracts to the court cause she'd be suing herself.

Anyways, I wonder how that Conrad case will go. I mean, poor Mike faced 20 years in prison for an ATTEMPT to abduct, molest and blah blah blah. Here we have a dead person and Conrad is facing up to 4 or 6? Ridiculous... So far the family does not seem to be pushing it so that Conrad is charged with more...maybe there isn't evidence for it, I don't know, but from what I've read about his actions that day, I'd charge him with murder.

[Edited 2/28/11 13:12pm]

bboy87 said:

I just looked at the recent chart stats......

I Want You Back!: The Unreleased Masters only charted at #50 on the R&B album chart. WTF!

I need to save some money and buy more of the Jacksons and Jackson 5 stuff cause I've been loving them more than ever lately.

dag said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't know but I think it'll be brought to court after the Conrad case...which is what Katherine and 'em need to be really focused on. I'm sure they think showing up to court every day shows they are but who knows about that.

Wait, I don't get this right now. As I understand it, Katherine is also guilty of this, so I don't expect her to bring these illegal contracts to the court cause she'd be suing herself.

Anyways, I wonder how that Conrad case will go. I mean, poor Mike faced 20 years in prison for an ATTEMPT to abduct, molest and blah blah blah. Here we have a dead person and Conrad is facing up to 4 or 6? Ridiculous... So far the family does not seem to be pushing it so that Conrad is charged with more...maybe there isn't evidence for it, I don't know, but from what I've read about his actions that day, I'd charge him with murder.

[Edited 2/28/11 13:12pm]

The Jacksons want to charge everyone that was around Michael that wasn't them. That's the problem. Some of them even excuse Conrad's actions when they initially were all like "he killed him". It's weird how the case is being handled right now.

Timmy84 said:

dag said:

Wait, I don't get this right now. As I understand it, Katherine is also guilty of this, so I don't expect her to bring these illegal contracts to the court cause she'd be suing herself.

Anyways, I wonder how that Conrad case will go. I mean, poor Mike faced 20 years in prison for an ATTEMPT to abduct, molest and blah blah blah. Here we have a dead person and Conrad is facing up to 4 or 6? Ridiculous... So far the family does not seem to be pushing it so that Conrad is charged with more...maybe there isn't evidence for it, I don't know, but from what I've read about his actions that day, I'd charge him with murder.

[Edited 2/28/11 13:12pm]

The Jacksons want to charge everyone that was around Michael that wasn't them. That's the problem. Some of them even excuse Conrad's actions when they initially were all like "he killed him". It's weird how the case is being handled right now.

I don't understand what they could gain by excusing Conrad. I am getting lost in all this and the more I learn about it, the more depressing it is. All I care about right now are the kids. I pray that they are OK, especially Blanket as someone here pointed out. He seems to be in his little world not knowing what the rest of the world wants from him. I think Prince and Paris are stronger because of all Michael's love and attention that he gave them, but who knows, he's too little yet and Prince and Paris still have to go through puberty...well, I hope it all turns out well for them.

Timmy84 said:

dag said:

Wait, I don't get this right now. As I understand it, Katherine is also guilty of this, so I don't expect her to bring these illegal contracts to the court cause she'd be suing herself.

Anyways, I wonder how that Conrad case will go. I mean, poor Mike faced 20 years in prison for an ATTEMPT to abduct, molest and blah blah blah. Here we have a dead person and Conrad is facing up to 4 or 6? Ridiculous... So far the family does not seem to be pushing it so that Conrad is charged with more...maybe there isn't evidence for it, I don't know, but from what I've read about his actions that day, I'd charge him with murder.

[Edited 2/28/11 13:12pm]

The Jacksons want to charge everyone that was around Michael that wasn't them. That's the problem. Some of them even excuse Conrad's actions when they initially were all like "he killed him". It's weird how the case is being handled right now.

The Jacks aren't minimally interested in Murray. Their eyes are set on AEG, the ones with the billions. Some of them wnat Murray to be exonorated so the door to get a settlement from AEG can be open. If Murray goes to jail, then they'll have no way to get that from AEG. Get why Oxman was calling MJ a druggie outside of the courtroom? Get why Murray is just being charged because "he's black"? Get why Randy keeps talking about how AEG should be in the courtroom? Get why Joe keeps coming with stories which make AEG look guilty even with Murray looking also guilty ("If Murray goes to jail I'll still have a way to shift the blame to AEG and get money")? Get why the Js wanted Murray on a second degree charge?

But when I call this family out, I'm the bitch, the meanie, the idiot. I'm glad to have Timmy and Kib-Kib by my side

dag said:

Timmy84 said:

The Jacksons want to charge everyone that was around Michael that wasn't them. That's the problem. Some of them even excuse Conrad's actions when they initially were all like "he killed him". It's weird how the case is being handled right now.

I don't understand what they could gain by excusing Conrad. I am getting lost in all this and the more I learn about it, the more depressing it is. All I care about right now are the kids. I pray that they are OK, especially Blanket as someone here pointed out. He seems to be in his little world not knowing what the rest of the world wants from him. I think Prince and Paris are stronger because of all Michael's love and attention that he gave them, but who knows, he's too little yet and Prince and Paris still have to go through puberty...well, I hope it all turns out well for them.

Dag, have you read what Prince told Child Services about the Jacksons?

Do you know that Alejandra, Jafaar and Genevieve usually pick on Blanket to make Prince mad? Do you know they make his life hell? Do you know Alejandra and some of her kids HATE Prince?

MOL said:

dag said:

I don't understand what they could gain by excusing Conrad. I am getting lost in all this and the more I learn about it, the more depressing it is. All I care about right now are the kids. I pray that they are OK, especially Blanket as someone here pointed out. He seems to be in his little world not knowing what the rest of the world wants from him. I think Prince and Paris are stronger because of all Michael's love and attention that he gave them, but who knows, he's too little yet and Prince and Paris still have to go through puberty...well, I hope it all turns out well for them.

Dag, have you read what Prince told Child Services about the Jacksons?

Do you know that Alejandra, Jafaar and Genevieve usually pick on Blanket to make Prince mad? Do you know they make his life hell? Do you know Alejandra and some of her kids HATE Prince?

No. Where could I get it from and how do you know it's authentic?

dag said:

MOL said:

Dag, have you read what Prince told Child Services about the Jacksons?

Do you know that Alejandra, Jafaar and Genevieve usually pick on Blanket to make Prince mad? Do you know they make his life hell? Do you know Alejandra and some of her kids HATE Prince?

No. Where could I get it from and how do you know it's authentic?

Go to mjjcommunity and search "services". There you'll have some posters' recollection, an interview with the social agent responsible for the "Jafaar threated to zap Blanket to death with a stun gun" story, excerpts of trancripts and some stories.

How do I know it's authentic? The excerpts, the recollections, the transcript and the stories coincide exaclty with what the agent said (and they came before). Besides, Alvarez "the bodyguard" may have something to add and, funny enough, coincide witg everything said. The thing is: little Jafaar order TWO stun guns. Why was that?

Is everybody lying against the Jacksons?

I can't go there because I was permantly banned. I was Pilinlim! I was banned for calling Joe a "leech" and am about to be banned from the KOP board for saying MJ was not a drug addict.

[Edited 2/28/11 14:14pm]

Sony Music wants you to create Michael Jacksons New Video.

If you’re a die-hard Michael Jackson fan just itching to exercise your artistic license, you’re in luck. Sony Music, along with Jackson’s estate, will soon be launching the “Behind The Mask” video project, which asks fans to contribute to a new music video for the song.

The project kicks off on March 7, at which time fans should head on over to a dedicated website. There, folks can select a move, lyric or crowd reaction to incorporate into the vid, or even use their webcams to contribute their own dance moves.

The director, Dennis Liu, will then pick the best clips and integrate them into the final video, which will be released during the first week in April.

If this formula sounds familiar to you, it’s because the project is being led by the creative team at Radical Media, which also worked on The Johnny Cash Project. That initiative yielded a crowdsourced video for Cash’s “Ain’t Not Grave,” which was nominated for Best Short Form Music Video in the 53rd annual Grammy Awards (sadly, it lost out to the Fame Monster herself, Lady Gaga).

“Behind the Mask” is a song off of Michael, an album that posthumously dropped in December and teased extensively on both Jackson’s website and on Ping pre-release.

http://mashable.com/2011/02/28/michael-jackson-crowdsourced/

MOL said:

dag said:

No. Where could I get it from and how do you know it's authentic?

Go to mjjcommunity and search "services". There you'll have some posters' recollection, an interview with the social agent responsible for the "Jafaar threated to zap Blanket to death with a stun gun" story, excerpts of trancripts and some stories.

How do I know it's authentic? The excerpts, the recollections, the transcript and the stories coincide exaclty with what the agent said (and they came before). Besides, Alvarez "the bodyguard" may have something to add and, funny enough, coincide witg everything said. The thing is: little Jafaar order TWO stun guns. Why was that?

Is everybody lying against the Jacksons?

I can't go there because I was permantly banned. I was Pilinlim! I was banned for calling Joe a "leech" and am about to be banned from the KOP board for saying MJ was not a drug addict.

[Edited 2/28/11 14:14pm]

wow, i didn't know that there were excerpts and transcripts of the stun gun thing. poor baby.

on edit: this is particularly shitty considering they had just lost their father, and none of these kids had done anything to engender this type of hostility from jermaine's kids - they barely knew each other!

[Edited 2/28/11 14:58pm]

New Michael Jackson Singles Coming From The Global #1 Album "Michael"

dag said:

Timmy84 said:

So in other words, whatever their father tried to do to make sure this didn't happen was reversed by the one woman he trusted...

Michael is somewhere rolling in his grave.

But still, since this came to light, how come nobody's attacking it? Where's Gloria Allred? She was all over the place when Mike dangled Blanket. Just kidding, but still.... If it's illegal, why haven't they been brought to court?

"Behind The Mask", a single? Hmmm. This gives me an idea....to finish a certain something.

Militant said:

"Behind The Mask", a single? Hmmm. This gives me an idea....to finish a certain something.

Militant, dish!

SherryJackson said:

Militant said:

"Behind The Mask", a single? Hmmm. This gives me an idea....to finish a certain something.

Militant, dish!

I told you the Estate sent me takedown letters when I posted the clip, right? Watch what I do when I finish this. I'm gonna need all of you who dig it to repost the MP3, upload to YouTube/Facebook like a MILLION times, spread the link everywhere.... we will show them how it's done.

MOL said:

kibbles said:

MJ put Kat on a pedestal because he wanted to feel loved, feel human, feel he could trust someone. So he exxagerated every little act in his human need to feel loved by a parent. Mainly, he was in denial: he didn't want to think his own mother regarded him as few more than a money making machine. He knew, deep inside (even though he refused to acknowledge it) that his father saw him as a slave, a money making machine and the thought of the other parent feeling only a little better than that was too repulsive. Imagine your parents not giving a ish about you, just what you could give them. Imagine having parents who don't care if you die or not, just care about the material benefits you give them. Those thoughts are too much for any human being to handle, hence why MJ felt the need to put his mother on a pedestal.

So, what do I think? I think Kat is as mentally disturbed and freakish as her psycopathic, EVIL husband. The difference is that she has the capacity to love, a faculty Joe doesn't have.

[Edited 2/28/11 9:54am]

BOTEACH (referring to joe): did you begin to feel that you were a moneymaking machine for him?

MICHAEL: yes.

BOTEACH: ...so you felt used?

MICHAEL: yes.

michael did acknowledge this in some way. there have been ways michael even acknowledged this about his mother. there are other aspects of the interview with boteach that to me, display that he was holding on to any bit of love he could find, and idealized it. it's really sad, seeing this conversation between yourself and kibbles. michael had such a sad life, and all he wanted to do was to make sure his kids felt the love he didn't feel. and now they are being thrown everywhere. and to me, little blanket looks the most openly affected by it all.

kibbles said:

MOL said:

MJ put Kat on a pedestal because he wanted to feel loved, feel human, feel he could trust someone. So he exxagerated every little act in his human need to feel loved by a parent. Mainly, he was in denial: he didn't want to think his own mother regarded him as few more than a money making machine. He knew, deep inside (even though he refused to acknowledge it) that his father saw him as a slave, a money making machine and the thought of the other parent feeling only a little better than that was too repulsive. Imagine your parents not giving a ish about you, just what you could give them. Imagine having parents who don't care if you die or not, just care about the material benefits you give them. Those thoughts are too much for any human being to handle, hence why MJ felt the need to put his mother on a pedestal.

So, what do I think? I think Kat is as mentally disturbed and freakish as her psycopathic, EVIL husband. The difference is that she has the capacity to love, a faculty Joe doesn't have.

[Edited 2/28/11 9:54am]

i remember a quote from mj from sometime in the early 80s/late 70s about how much he admired the way mothers could love their children from moment of birth, or something like that, so kat was definitely up on a pedestal. i think denial is the right word. as i say, there is nothing in her or her actions with his kids which indicates that she regards them with love or respect. children are innocent; they will love whomever treats them well, or seems to. they will trust in the adults around them simply b/c they are the adults around them. how many orgers have loved a parent who treated them badly as a child, and don't realize it until they grow up and look back? not all child abuse is physical; in fact, MOST of it is emotional. manipulation games, playing with feelings, playing with trust, inciting doubt, withholding approval or affection. the list goes on. kat may have the capacity to love - evident w/ joe - but i'm not sure that it extended to mj.

as i've mentioned elsewhere on this thread, this was actually my experience. i was beaten as a child, but also told essentially on a daily basis i was ugly, worthless and stupid. i was told my features (such as my nose and hair) were ugly- and similar to what michael said his father said bout him- my mother would say something to the effect of, 'you didn't get that from my side of the family.' my sister would then beat me up every day (at one point sending me to the emergency room). she'd use tennis rackets, hot pens, whatever she coud get her hands on. it was painful to live with. it wasn't just sibling fighting, or a parent just saying some words- it killed the spirit, to the point where i still struggle to this day about how i feel about myself, even if my relationships with my mother and sister have improved. i still deal with issues of suicide and such. it's not a joke- people who have never experienced it likely will never understand. at least in my experience of dealing with people who've never been abused.

this is one of the main reasons i heavily identify with michael. whenever i hear michael recalling his experiences, it takes me back to my childhood, and i get flashbacks. some of the stories he spoke about happened to me as well. this is also why i feel so strongly on this issue, regarding katherine and the jackson family.

Timmy84 said:

kibbles said:

i remember a quote from mj from sometime in the early 80s/late 70s about how much he admired the way mothers could love their children from moment of birth, or something like that, so kat was definitely up on a pedestal. i think denial is the right word. as i say, there is nothing in her or her actions with his kids which indicates that she regards them with love or respect. children are innocent; they will love whomever treats them well, or seems to. they will trust in the adults around them simply b/c they are the adults around them. how many orgers have loved a parent who treated them badly as a child, and don't realize it until they grow up and look back? not all child abuse is physical; in fact, MOST of it is emotional. manipulation games, playing with feelings, playing with trust, inciting doubt, withholding approval or affection. the list goes on. kat may have the capacity to love - evident w/ joe - but i'm not sure that it extended to mj.

What I find interesting, reading Magic and the Madness, Michael didn't even call Katherine "mom" to others it was "Mother". Other times it was "Kate". So he called his father by his first name (at nineteen, the book said) and his mother by her first name. Never "Mommy" and "Daddy", "Kate" and "Joseph".

i do not call my mother 'mom' or 'mommy' either. my relationship has improved with her, but i still find it difficult to bestow the title upon her because of what happened in my childhood. i recognize this.

this whole thread is so sad to read... yes, i think michael is certainly rolling in his grave. there's so much he put in place to try to protect his children, and it'a ll come down to this.

the unreleased masters has some good tracks on there. my favourite (of course) is 'buttercup'. i also love 'listen let me tell you how' (too bad gordy kicked out bobby taylor out of the fold!)...

in relation to the 4 years murray will get if convicted, you gotta take that issue up with the injustice system, where you get more time for conspiracy to distribute marijauana than involuntary manslaughter. from looking at all the information, murray should be AT LEAST charged with negligent homicide.

i do think AEG SHOULD be a factor in the trial though... murray attempted to take AEG to court at one point. the contract michael signed with AEG is a mess. i am questioning EVERYBODY here. i trust NO ONE involved- that is, blood relatives, leonard rowe, thome, randy phillips, ortega- no one. they ALL need to take the stand. again, i am not taking sides. i'm still unsure why we have to.

Michael always referred to Katherine as Mother, and from an early age Joseph told the kids not to call him Dad - but Joseph.

He may not have called Katherine, Mommy, or Mom, but Mother is the same if just perhaps more formal and respectful.

Swa said:

Michael always referred to Katherine as Mother, and from an early age Joseph told the kids not to call him Dad - but Joseph.

He may not have called Katherine, Mommy, or Mom, but Mother is the same if just perhaps more formal and respectful.

oh for sure... it does lend to an interesting question though- of course one based on perception... is the title of 'mother due to respect, or is it some sort of 'orderly, militaristic' thing. is 'mother' an extension of the childrens' relationship with joe? the thing is, we will never know because none of us were there. i don't think any of these questions are invalid though. because that's all we got.

it's sad that we even are talking about this; that the breakdown of the family is so devestating...

My mom hates it when I call her "mother." Says it's too close to "motherfucker." So I say it whenever I'm a little miffed at her.

Back to Michael.

MJJstudent said:

Swa said:

Michael always referred to Katherine as Mother, and from an early age Joseph told the kids not to call him Dad - but Joseph.

He may not have called Katherine, Mommy, or Mom, but Mother is the same if just perhaps more formal and respectful.

oh for sure... it does lend to an interesting question though- of course one based on perception... is the title of 'mother due to respect, or is it some sort of 'orderly, militaristic' thing. is 'mother' an extension of the childrens' relationship with joe? the thing is, we will never know because none of us were there. i don't think any of these questions are invalid though. because that's all we got.

it's sad that we even are talking about this; that the breakdown of the family is so devestating...

When was this family ever not dysfunctional is the question I always have had wondered, of course no one knows the answer so I don't expect the family to address that since they're still holding on to their 1970s PR image.

[Edited 2/28/11 22:11pm]

Militant said:

SherryJackson said:

Militant, dish!

I told you the Estate sent me takedown letters when I posted the clip, right? Watch what I do when I finish this. I'm gonna need all of you who dig it to repost the MP3, upload to YouTube/Facebook like a MILLION times, spread the link everywhere.... we will show them how it's done.

Ooooh a little mischeif. You can count me in on this!

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

oh for sure... it does lend to an interesting question though- of course one based on perception... is the title of 'mother due to respect, or is it some sort of 'orderly, militaristic' thing. is 'mother' an extension of the childrens' relationship with joe? the thing is, we will never know because none of us were there. i don't think any of these questions are invalid though. because that's all we got.

it's sad that we even are talking about this; that the breakdown of the family is so devestating...

When was this family ever not dysfunctional is the question I always have had wondered, of course no one knows the answer so I don't expect the family to address that since they're still holding on to their 1970s PR image.

[Edited 2/28/11 22:11pm]

that question is about as hard as trigonometry to a kindergardner.

MOL said:

dag said:

No. Where could I get it from and how do you know it's authentic?

Go to mjjcommunity and search "services". There you'll have some posters' recollection, an interview with the social agent responsible for the "Jafaar threated to zap Blanket to death with a stun gun" story, excerpts of trancripts and some stories.

How do I know it's authentic? The excerpts, the recollections, the transcript and the stories coincide exaclty with what the agent said (and they came before). Besides, Alvarez "the bodyguard" may have something to add and, funny enough, coincide witg everything said. The thing is: little Jafaar order TWO stun guns. Why was that?

Is everybody lying against the Jacksons?

I can't go there because I was permantly banned. I was Pilinlim! I was banned for calling Joe a "leech" and am about to be banned from the KOP board for saying MJ was not a drug addict.

[Edited 2/28/11 14:14pm]

Where do I look for it? In the news section? In their forum or where?