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Printablebboy87 said: who else picked "Don't Walk Away"?
Me! I love that song. I basically picked everything he has never done. I would love to see Billy Jean live, but he's going to do that no matter what I vote for. | |
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Annika said: bboy87 said: who else picked "Don't Walk Away"?
Me! I love that song. I basically picked everything he has never done. I would love to see Billy Jean live, but he's going to do that no matter what I vote for. I know, worst luck. I really really wouldn't be bothered at all if he left that song out. But I guess hearing it live would be completely different thing to listening to it on a CD or watching a performance of it on youtube. | |
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Arnotts said: Annika said: Me! I love that song. I basically picked everything he has never done. I would love to see Billy Jean live, but he's going to do that no matter what I vote for. I know, worst luck. I really really wouldn't be bothered at all if he left that song out. But I guess hearing it live would be completely different thing to listening to it on a CD or watching a performance of it on youtube. I disagree, I think Billy Jean is the one song he really can't get away with not doing. If he doesn't do it when I go, I will be very disappointed. Everything else he's done in the past should be changed, though! | |
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Annika said: unique said: you obviously don't know much about his touring history as he has only done 3 solo tours, the last of which was in 1997. whilst his first tour with the jacksons was in 1971 and they did 10 tours, prince has done far more tours and shows in a shorter period of time and still shows no end to touring. george michael hates touring, which is why it took him so long to get round to his last tour(s), but he at least did a fair number of live performances at one off gigs. MJ hasn't done a proper live performance at all in 12 years. if he enjoyed playing live he could have at least done the odd one off show. even when prince isn't on tour he still does one off shows for example. don't you find it off that someone who considers themself the king of pop has not done even a one off small show in 12 years? and i'm not suggesting he tried to get out of court appearances due to illness. far from it. my personal view is that he was faking it, or at least hamming it up. in other words he wasn't too ill to attend court, he was just making excuses, and i think if he would do such a thing at such an important court appearance, then it's possible he will do it again. the alternate view some may think is that he was ill, and thus if he was too ill then, he could be too ill to do these shows. i personally think the wheelchair stunt is him faking it or hamming it up. or maybe he had a hip replacement like prince and can't dance anymore Now you're just grasping at straws. Who cares if other people have done more than him? How does that even factor into the consideration? Michael is Michael, not Prince or George Michael or Madonna or anyone else. 
As for the second part, reread my reply. I already answered your point (and nowhere did I say he was faking it). It seems like the bottom line is that you really, really want to see him cancel because he's a diva. You have no legitimate historical reason to think he will (he never has before, and he has never been described as anything but totally professional by anyone he has worked with), so you're trying to draw links to completely unrelated behaviour to make yourself feel better. Is that a fair summary? how am i grasping at straws? i have a perfectly reasoned explanation of what i've said why would i want him to cancel? i would rather he did perform at all the shows as advertised, it's just my view is that it's unlikely, and i've given my clear reasons. if he plays all the shows without cancelations there should be plenty of tickets available, and when i'm in london during a show time i would check it out myself, but i don't think that will happen as i think shows will end up being cancelled. just one cancelled show will lead to increased ticket demand for other shows as to his professionalism, many people have commented on how childish and immature he has been, even quincy jones mentions this in his biography. even MJ's biographer has said that he and many other people he has interviewed for his bio has said that MJ is a pathelogical liar. for example, he claims he has only had surgery on his nose to help him breathe, but even stevie wonder could tell you that he's done far more than that. it's like he has been raised to lie all his life to protect him and his family, so lying is second nature to him and he sees no wrong in it. that's the kind of person you are dealing with. someone who will appear on a tv interview and tell the world that he sleeps with children that aren't his own, and sees no wrong in it. that's not normal or professional behaviour as far as i'm concerned. it may be to you or other's, but to me it's an indication that he doesn't feel bound by the laws or conventions of society and thus could pull out of any agreement. he went behind paul maccartneys back and bought the beatles rights, so he appears to have little in the way of morals too, so with no morals and no respect for law or convention, what makes you think he will agree to do something that he hasn't done in 12 years, a quarter of his life? sounds like blind faith to me, and i don't blame you for that, but you can't ignore facts | |
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Pan from block 402
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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unique said: Annika said: Now you're just grasping at straws. Who cares if other people have done more than him? How does that even factor into the consideration? Michael is Michael, not Prince or George Michael or Madonna or anyone else.
As for the second part, reread my reply. I already answered your point (and nowhere did I say he was faking it). It seems like the bottom line is that you really, really want to see him cancel because he's a diva. You have no legitimate historical reason to think he will (he never has before, and he has never been described as anything but totally professional by anyone he has worked with), so you're trying to draw links to completely unrelated behaviour to make yourself feel better. Is that a fair summary? how am i grasping at straws? i have a perfectly reasoned explanation of what i've said why would i want him to cancel? i would rather he did perform at all the shows as advertised, it's just my view is that it's unlikely, and i've given my clear reasons. if he plays all the shows without cancelations there should be plenty of tickets available, and when i'm in london during a show time i would check it out myself, but i don't think that will happen as i think shows will end up being cancelled. just one cancelled show will lead to increased ticket demand for other shows as to his professionalism, many people have commented on how childish and immature he has been, even quincy jones mentions this in his biography. even MJ's biographer has said that he and many other people he has interviewed for his bio has said that MJ is a pathelogical liar. for example, he claims he has only had surgery on his nose to help him breathe, but even stevie wonder could tell you that he's done far more than that. it's like he has been raised to lie all his life to protect him and his family, so lying is second nature to him and he sees no wrong in it. that's the kind of person you are dealing with. someone who will appear on a tv interview and tell the world that he sleeps with children that aren't his own, and sees no wrong in it. that's not normal or professional behaviour as far as i'm concerned. it may be to you or other's, but to me it's an indication that he doesn't feel bound by the laws or conventions of society and thus could pull out of any agreement. he went behind paul maccartneys back and bought the beatles rights, so he appears to have little in the way of morals too, so with no morals and no respect for law or convention, what makes you think he will agree to do something that he hasn't done in 12 years, a quarter of his life? sounds like blind faith to me, and i don't blame you for that, but you can't ignore facts Excellent posts Unique, I agree with nearly everything you've said. I find it strange that he hasn't performed (hardly) at all in all these years too, comparing that to Prince, who seems to NEED to perform regularly, I think it says a lot. | |
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It also says a bit about MJ as a parent. I bet he knows his kids and has a closer relationship with them better than Madonna knows hers. | |
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Ellie said: It also says a bit about MJ as a parent. I bet he knows his kids and has a closer relationship with them better than Madonna knows hers.
there are hundreds of singers and musicians who are parents and are still able to perform live. it's not even proven that the kids are even his. debbie rowe confirmed they never even spent a night in bed together, nevermind sex. even she doesn't know if the sperm was MJ's or someone elses. it's not even clear who the mother of the third child was, nevermind the father. he doesn't really paint a good picture of what the example of a good parent is, so i wouldn't use that as an excuse for not performing a concert in 12 years | |
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The Swa Setlist - MJ O2
Keeping in mind it's going to be a predominately greatest hits show - what would I pick? As much as I wanted to put in stuff like Tabloid Junkie, Money, Heartbreaker, etc etc I tried to be realistic. Here's mine - and here I would see it all live, with a vibrant band, and the classics given a bit more funk to them. 1. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2. Can You Feel It 3. Human Nature 4. Smooth Criminal 5. Remember the Time 6. J5 Medley - I want you back / ABC / I'll be there - stopped and replaced with Who's Loving You? 7. Don't Stop Til You Get Enough 8. Butterflies 9. The Way you Make Me Feel 10. Stranger in Moscow 11. Thriller 12. Billie Jean 13. You Rock My World 14. Who is it 15. Beat It 16. Black or White ----- 17. Scream 18. Bad 19. Whatever Happens 20. Man in the Mirror "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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unique said: Ellie said: It also says a bit about MJ as a parent. I bet he knows his kids and has a closer relationship with them better than Madonna knows hers.
there are hundreds of singers and musicians who are parents and are still able to perform live. it's not even proven that the kids are even his. debbie rowe confirmed they never even spent a night in bed together, nevermind sex. even she doesn't know if the sperm was MJ's or someone elses. it's not even clear who the mother of the third child was, nevermind the father. he doesn't really paint a good picture of what the example of a good parent is, so i wouldn't use that as an excuse for not performing a concert in 12 years Who gives a fuck? He's their guardian and that's what matters. Not growing up like spoiled and neglected Hollywood kids is a feat in itself. Meanwhile Vadge wants to adopt even more and she barely even sees the 3 she has already. Maybe occasionally coldly talking to them to make sure they're learning French properly 
Besides, everyone is different. Prince coped with the death of his child by immersing himself in music and performance, MJ coped with the whole world thinking he was a child molester funnily enough, by hiding himself away as he lost all confidence. Look, if you don;t want to pay to see him, don't. If you don't think he'll cope with the concerts then think that. Stop comparing him to Prince who has had a completely different life, has a completely different set of priorities, excels in completely different areas in music and funnily enough, is a completely different person. [Edited 3/21/09 4:32am] | |
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Ellie said: unique said: there are hundreds of singers and musicians who are parents and are still able to perform live. it's not even proven that the kids are even his. debbie rowe confirmed they never even spent a night in bed together, nevermind sex. even she doesn't know if the sperm was MJ's or someone elses. it's not even clear who the mother of the third child was, nevermind the father. he doesn't really paint a good picture of what the example of a good parent is, so i wouldn't use that as an excuse for not performing a concert in 12 years Who gives a fuck? He's their guardian and that's what matters. Not growing up like spoiled and neglected Hollywood kids is a feat in itself. Meanwhile Vadge wants to adopt even more and she barely even sees the 3 she has already. Maybe occasionally coldly talking to them to make sure they're learning French properly
Besides, everyone is different. Prince coped with the death of his child by immersing himself in music and performance, MJ coped with the whole world thinking he was a child molester funnily enough, by hiding himself away as he lost all confidence. Look, if you don;t want to pay to see him, don't. If you don't think he'll cope with the concerts then think that. Stop comparing him to Prince who has had a completely different life, has a completely different set of priorities, excels in completely different areas in music and funnily enough, is a completely different person. [Edited 3/21/09 4:32am] Please please can the people who come here to diss MJ just stop. This second thread was started to allow a spite-free discussion for those of us who are very happy at the 50 concerts....in the knowledge that yes he may cancel some, he may lip-synch, he may get an impersonator... edit - (BTW this is not at Ellie, whom I support in her statement) [Edited 3/21/09 4:41am] | |
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Ellie said: unique said: there are hundreds of singers and musicians who are parents and are still able to perform live. it's not even proven that the kids are even his. debbie rowe confirmed they never even spent a night in bed together, nevermind sex. even she doesn't know if the sperm was MJ's or someone elses. it's not even clear who the mother of the third child was, nevermind the father. he doesn't really paint a good picture of what the example of a good parent is, so i wouldn't use that as an excuse for not performing a concert in 12 years Who gives a fuck? He's their guardian and that's what matters. Not growing up like spoiled and neglected Hollywood kids is a feat in itself. Meanwhile Vadge wants to adopt even more and she barely even sees the 3 she has already. Maybe occasionally coldly talking to them to make sure they're learning French properly
Besides, everyone is different. Prince coped with the death of his child by immersing himself in music and performance, MJ coped with the whole world thinking he was a child molester funnily enough, by hiding himself away as he lost all confidence. Look, if you don;t want to pay to see him, don't. If you don't think he'll cope with the concerts then think that. Stop comparing him to Prince who has had a completely different life, has a completely different set of priorities, excels in completely different areas in music and funnily enough, is a completely different person. [Edited 3/21/09 4:32am] you have no idea if they are spoiled or neglected, or what they are like. comparing them to madonnas kids is hardly the best comparison either, but again, you have no idea what her kids are like either. you can't say they suffered because thier mother was on tour, as you have no idea. at least their mother did her job in releasing music and performing live to raise funds to provide for her family, instead of blowing millions on a fantasy house with zoo and funfair and ending up close to bankruptcy and this is a prince fan site, so what's wrong with comparing him to prince or with anyone else? i'm only using examples to explain what i say. i could use other examples to put the same across, but being a prince fan posting on a prince site for other prince fans, it's somehow simpler to use prince as a good example when drawing comparisons or making a point, as most readers would understand easily MJ already toured once or twice after the first major child abuse allegations, so why should the second major case stop him doing it again? it's clear his hardcore fans are blind to whatever he does and would see him in concert even if he clubbed baby seals to death on stage and charged £1000 for the priviledge, so there seems to be more to the reasons for not playing live | |
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Gibson9000 said: Ellie said: Who gives a fuck? He's their guardian and that's what matters. Not growing up like spoiled and neglected Hollywood kids is a feat in itself. Meanwhile Vadge wants to adopt even more and she barely even sees the 3 she has already. Maybe occasionally coldly talking to them to make sure they're learning French properly
Besides, everyone is different. Prince coped with the death of his child by immersing himself in music and performance, MJ coped with the whole world thinking he was a child molester funnily enough, by hiding himself away as he lost all confidence. Look, if you don;t want to pay to see him, don't. If you don't think he'll cope with the concerts then think that. Stop comparing him to Prince who has had a completely different life, has a completely different set of priorities, excels in completely different areas in music and funnily enough, is a completely different person. [Edited 3/21/09 4:32am] Please please can the people who come here to diss MJ just stop. This second thread was started to allow a spite-free discussion for those of us who are very happy at the 50 concerts....in the knowledge that yes he may cancel some, he may lip-synch, he may get an impersonator... edit - (BTW this is not at Ellie, whom I support in her statement) [Edited 3/21/09 4:41am] do you mean you want a biased one sided discussion? and those who don't agree with what you think aren't welcome to participate? what is wrong with open and honest discussion and debate? | |
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who's been inside the o2? "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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unique said: you have no idea if they are spoiled or neglected, or what they are like. Actually I do. Very much so, but that's not for discussion online. | |
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bboy87 said: who's been inside the o2? Asking a British Prince fan that is like asking someone how well they know their own bedroom!  | |
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Ellie said: bboy87 said: who's been inside the o2? Asking a British Prince fan that is like asking someone how well they know their own bedroom! it's interesting about artists doing arena residencies. With smaller venues, I can see it working, but doing such a long series at an arena is pretty new If he decides to bring it to the states, I think it would work at Madison Square Garden or maybe the Kodak theatre in Los Angeles Vegas would be the ideal location though "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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unique said: Ellie said: It also says a bit about MJ as a parent. I bet he knows his kids and has a closer relationship with them better than Madonna knows hers.
there are hundreds of singers and musicians who are parents and are still able to perform live. it's not even proven that the kids are even his. debbie rowe confirmed they never even spent a night in bed together, nevermind sex. even she doesn't know if the sperm was MJ's or someone elses. it's not even clear who the mother of the third child was, nevermind the father. he doesn't really paint a good picture of what the example of a good parent is, so i wouldn't use that as an excuse for not performing a concert in 12 years Well not the way Lionel Richie was talking about him last night on British TV ...he did not have to bring Michael into the conversation with J.Ross but he did..and was happy to talk about him...and Mike did take the time out to bring up his kids...he speaks to him on a regular basis... Now I would take LR word on that better than an tabloid newspaper or gossip rag ...so that the reason he's not been touring.... End off... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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bboy87 said:
who's been inside the o2? me... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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unique said: Annika said: Now you're just grasping at straws. Who cares if other people have done more than him? How does that even factor into the consideration? Michael is Michael, not Prince or George Michael or Madonna or anyone else.
As for the second part, reread my reply. I already answered your point (and nowhere did I say he was faking it). It seems like the bottom line is that you really, really want to see him cancel because he's a diva. You have no legitimate historical reason to think he will (he never has before, and he has never been described as anything but totally professional by anyone he has worked with), so you're trying to draw links to completely unrelated behaviour to make yourself feel better. Is that a fair summary? how am i grasping at straws? i have a perfectly reasoned explanation of what i've said why would i want him to cancel? i would rather he did perform at all the shows as advertised, it's just my view is that it's unlikely, and i've given my clear reasons. if he plays all the shows without cancelations there should be plenty of tickets available, and when i'm in london during a show time i would check it out myself, but i don't think that will happen as i think shows will end up being cancelled. just one cancelled show will lead to increased ticket demand for other shows as to his professionalism, many people have commented on how childish and immature he has been, even quincy jones mentions this in his biography. even MJ's biographer has said that he and many other people he has interviewed for his bio has said that MJ is a pathelogical liar. for example, he claims he has only had surgery on his nose to help him breathe, but even stevie wonder could tell you that he's done far more than that. it's like he has been raised to lie all his life to protect him and his family, so lying is second nature to him and he sees no wrong in it. that's the kind of person you are dealing with. someone who will appear on a tv interview and tell the world that he sleeps with children that aren't his own, and sees no wrong in it. that's not normal or professional behaviour as far as i'm concerned. it may be to you or other's, but to me it's an indication that he doesn't feel bound by the laws or conventions of society and thus could pull out of any agreement. he went behind paul maccartneys back and bought the beatles rights, so he appears to have little in the way of morals too, so with no morals and no respect for law or convention, what makes you think he will agree to do something that he hasn't done in 12 years, a quarter of his life? sounds like blind faith to me, and i don't blame you for that, but you can't ignore facts You're grasping because you are using completely unrelated events to try to "prove" that he's apt to do something he's never done before. I'm not denying what you've said to be true (except where did Q say he was unprofessional?). He's always been a flake when it comes to business deals. He's always tried to get out of things he didn't want to do by means of deceit. He's always hated continuous touring, and has said so on a number of occassions. Notice that I am not denying any of this. However, despite all this, he has never cancelled shows before just because he felt like it. So unless you think he's had a major personality change in the last 12 years, I fail to see why personality flaws which have never lead him to do so in the past should suddenly do so now. But eh, there really is no use in arguing about this. The only way either one of us will be proven right is when he does or does not show up for the shows. So I am saving the rest of this argument for July.  | |
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I'm thinking of times when MJ cancelled shows.
New York December 1995, One Night Only - hospitalised That MJ & Friends thing in Korea - his son was hospitalised Dangerous tour - One case of laryngitis, then the allegations & drug related illnesses, led to cancellation of the rest of the tour HIStory tour - the day of Princess Diana's death | |
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Ellie said: I'm thinking of times when MJ cancelled shows.
New York December 1995, One Night Only - hospitalised That MJ & Friends thing in Korea - his son was hospitalised Dangerous tour - One case of laryngitis, then the allegations & drug related illnesses, led to cancellation of the rest of the tour HIStory tour - the day of Princess Diana's death I'm pretty sure that last one was rescheduled, no? | |
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Ellie said: I'm thinking of times when MJ cancelled shows.
New York December 1995, One Night Only - hospitalised That MJ & Friends thing in Korea - his son was hospitalised Dangerous tour - One case of laryngitis, then the allegations & drug related illnesses, led to cancellation of the rest of the tour HIStory tour - the day of Princess Diana's death does mohammed al fayed know about this? i smell another lawsuit coming on... | |
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Ellie said: I'm thinking of times when MJ cancelled shows.
New York December 1995, One Night Only - hospitalised That MJ & Friends thing in Korea - his son was hospitalised Dangerous tour - One case of laryngitis, then the allegations & drug related illnesses, led to cancellation of the rest of the tour HIStory tour - the day of Princess Diana's death how many shows was he supposed to do for MJ and Friends? he did one in Munich Germany and one in Seoul Korea "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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Yeah, anything from HIStory was postponed and re-scheduled but not cancelled - tell that to Janet after her cancelling the whole of Europe in 2002.
I think there were supposed to be 2 in Seoul. I heard that Pavarotti was rather pissed off. | |
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bboy87 said: Ellie said: Asking a British Prince fan that is like asking someone how well they know their own bedroom! it's interesting about artists doing arena residencies. With smaller venues, I can see it working, but doing such a long series at an arena is pretty new If he decides to bring it to the states, I think it would work at Madison Square Garden or maybe the Kodak theatre in Los Angeles Vegas would be the ideal location though Sorry can't see mike doing a run like this in the US ...you'll get a number of goodbye shows....maybe "5 Nights with MJ and the Jacksons" shows in a large venue with the brothers and family as a goodbye to fans with a CD package to go along with it... but he will not do a run like this again....it will not happen...in the US..sorry..  Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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unique said: Gibson9000 said: Please please can the people who come here to diss MJ just stop. This second thread was started to allow a spite-free discussion for those of us who are very happy at the 50 concerts....in the knowledge that yes he may cancel some, he may lip-synch, he may get an impersonator... edit - (BTW this is not at Ellie, whom I support in her statement) [Edited 3/21/09 4:41am] do you mean you want a biased one sided discussion? and those who don't agree with what you think aren't welcome to participate? what is wrong with open and honest discussion and debate? no, I do not mean that other views are not allowed. There are however certain persistenly posted views that are extremely polarised and negative. These are apparently annoying a number of people who come here to enjoy a discussion on a certain theme. For those who wish to air their hyper-critical views against MJ perhaps a new thread should be opened. That way there may be a reduction in the clear no conflict between those members who are continuously grating against each other, in a non-productive manner (as opposed to a sensible and constructive, enjoyable discussion). | |
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Ellie said: I'm thinking of times when MJ cancelled shows.
New York December 1995, One Night Only - hospitalised That MJ & Friends thing in Korea - his son was hospitalised Dangerous tour - One case of laryngitis, then the allegations & drug related illnesses, led to cancellation of the rest of the tour HIStory tour - the day of Princess Diana's death He did do both MJ & Friends shows... one in Seoul and one in Munich! He did pull out of Pavarotti & Friends though, because his son was hospitalised! He did postpone and cancel a couple of shows at the end of the Dangerous tour, but that was special circumstances... all shit hit the fan, so it's not really comparable! The HIStory show in Oostende was postponed to 3 days later, due to Princess Diana's death! | |
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bboy87 said: who else picked "Don't Walk Away"?
Me! Me! Me! I did!  I would love if he would do that song!
Here is my overworked list, with the songs that yesterday weren't available to choose, again, the order doesn't mean a thing: 1. 2 Bad 2. Another Part of Me 3. Baby Be Mine 4. Blood on the Dance Floor 5. Dirty Diana 6. Don't Walk Away 7. Get on the Floor 8. Give In to Me 9. Heartbreaker 10. HIStory 11. I Just Can't Stop Loving You 12. Leave Me Alone 13. Liberian Girl 14. Man in the Mirror 15. Off the Wall 16. Rock with You 17. Scream 18. Shake Your Body 19. Speed Demon 20. Tabloid Junkie 21. The Lady in My Life 22. They Don't Care About Us 23. Whatever Happens 24. Who Is It 25. Smile [Edited 3/21/09 7:54am] | |
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LondonStyle said: bboy87 said: it's interesting about artists doing arena residencies. With smaller venues, I can see it working, but doing such a long series at an arena is pretty new If he decides to bring it to the states, I think it would work at Madison Square Garden or maybe the Kodak theatre in Los Angeles Vegas would be the ideal location though Sorry can't see mike doing a run like this in the US ...you'll get a number of goodbye shows....maybe "5 Nights with MJ and the Jacksons" shows in a large venue with the brothers and family as a goodbye to fans with a CD package to go along with it... but he will not do a run like this again....it will not happen...in the US..sorry.. Well, aside from Vegas, we don't really have a place like the o2 where artists can do residencies "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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