I shouldn’t even waste my time arguing with someone who is obviously as nutty as a fruitcake and definitely lives up to their screen name but I know good and damn well that I was fully aware of the “Off The Wall” album before I even switched over to black radio back in either late 1979 or early 1980. The songs were all over white radio and also being played on “American Bandstand” and “Solid Gold”. Those television shows didn’t play R&B hits that didn’t crossover.

Anyway, since you like to harp on awards and things as proof, even though I have personal experiences in the era (which you don’t), I might as well do some damn research myself and check the billboard pop, not R&B, but POP charts. I couldn’t find weekly charts but here are the year-end charts for the top five pop singles of the year 1980:

1. Call Me – Blondie
2. Another Brick In The Wall – Pink Floyd
3. Magic – Olivia Newton John
4. Rock With You – Michael Jackson
5. Do That To Me One More Time – Captain and Tennille

http://www.billboard.com/...&year=1980

And here are the top five pop albums for the year 1980:

1. The Wall – Pink Floyd
2. The Long Run – The Eagles
3. Off The Wall – Michael Jackson
4. Glass Houses – Billy Joel
5. Damn The Torpedoes – Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers

http://www.billboard.com/...&year=1980

I know that children love visuals so I provided links so you can look at the pretty pictures and comprehend it better.



See, you know nothing about a lot of white people either. Lots of white people back then, and still today, will not attend any event that they feel they are going to be outnumbered by black people because of ignorant fear. Hell, just look at the rap concerts today that are attended mainly by black kids but yet have huge white album sales.

Yeah, it’s true that “Off The Wall” didn’t have near as big a white following as “Thriller”, but “Off The Wall” definitely was a crossover hit with white people. And by the time “Thriller” had it’s huge sales, white people knew that the concerts were going to be attended by large numbers of white people, as well as black people, so they attended them. Also, the $30 ticket sales for the Victory tour was enough to keep a lot of black people out and some of the black media and magazines talked about it at the time also. I remember every year when Shalamar, The Whispers, and Lakeside used to come to my area, the tickets were always around $7 or $8.



Disco was very loved by many black people. How the hell would you know? You probably were in some damn diapers at the time. All you know is what you have read and disco had a huge backlash, mostly from white people. Every so often, I might hear a black person express their dislike for disco during the early 1980s but those were very rare occasions. On the other hand however, the majority of white people absolutely hated disco with a passion in the early 1980s and openly expressed it. I never heard too many black people shit on disco until the shit hop era and I wasn’t surprised then. They hate anything that has some tempo to it and isn’t dull.

And while you are shitting on disco, “Off The Wall” was very disco. As I said before, I had already heard it on white stations before I even switched to black radio and the songs from that album were played right in the middle of the other disco of the era and fit right in perfectly. They didn’t sound out of place whatsoever. And it’s because of disco’s death that I switched over to black radio in the first place. Why? Because the music that black radio was playing at the time was the closest sounding thing to disco. And what was black radio playing at the time? It was playing funk and the funk was very similar to disco, very uptempo, very funky, and very danceable.







Really? What about Donna Summer who was the absolute Queen of Disco? She continued on into the 1980s. Also, Rick James, Prince, The Barkays, Brick, The Isley Brothers, Earth, Wind, and Fire….all of which made disco songs during the era. And don’t forget Michael Jackson himself who also made disco.

That knowledge comes with experience little boy blue




Just watching Soul Train huh? Yeah, just like typical you, leaving out the rest of what I said and harping on one thing over and over and over as if it’s the only thing I said.

And as far as knowing the history, you don’t know a damn thing about it and your posts reflect it. Hell, you didn’t even have the good sense to research the internet before making an ignorant statement that “Off The Wall” didn’t cross over. And as far as culture, likes and dislikes, and ideas, you are far from being a spokesperson for what black people like and how they think. Hell, there are plenty of black people in this very forum that think you are just as loony as a damn toon, haven’t got the good sense that God gave a pea, and are nothing but a shit starter.



Thinking that no white people whatsoever are capable of having any soul is racist right there. That’s like a white person being ignorant enough to think that black people aren’t capable of being as smart as white people. Your ignorance is just as ignorant as the Ku Klux Klan. Well hell, the reason people are racist anyway comes from pure ignorance so why should I be surprised?





All people have to do is check your profile and it will show a recent history of the threads you have been in. Every thread you have ever been is something that has crossed over. Every thread.

You haven’t been in any of the funk threads because you have no knowledge of funk other than what you’ve read. And there are some very knowledgeable orgers of funk who make many funk threads on artists that the general white media has never heard of.





You don’t have to tell me about white racism. I’ve experienced it first hand. Don’t think the white folks loved me for hanging with black folks. Loads of white people hated me and didn’t hesitate to let me know they hated me. You are preaching to the damn choir here.

As I said before, you are a wannabe racist. You’re tastes are definitely the whitest of the black but you ain’t got the good sense to know it. Everything you like is something crossover and you don’t even realize it. You want to be a racist but then when folks look at who you are listening to, they are thinking…..”This motherfucker wants to talk all this racist shit but he’s listening to the black artists that draw the largest white buyers. Sounds like a racist that is stupider than even the average racist”.
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[Edited 4/25/08 10:09am]

DAMN!

carlluv said:

Off the Wall can not be considered as a "crossover" success because the popularity of the album is based on the HUGE response from the black audience and black radio stations... Black folks responded greatly to the album...

And not only OFW wasn't a crossover success, musically Off the wall was not even meant to be a crossover album, the album never gets a great response from the white audience...

And this is specifically the reason why MJ decided to go POP with Thriller, an album that could appeal to all kind of audiences, not just black folks...

Actually you know, the better title for this thread is:

"Why do talentless entertainers REGARDLESS if they're black or white or Chinese or whatever prefer MJ over Prince?"

Yeah I said it.

And apparently Katt Williams and Chris Rock hate him right now.

"Get out that damn tree and fix me some peanut butter, bitch!"

Timmy84 said:

First of all, at the time of the release OFW sold around 3x million copies not 7.5 mil... Of course, like most white folks you didn't know that...

The album went 7x platinum twenty years after being released and well after MJ became a crossover superstar, just like Prince after Purple Rain all his previous albums get a huge boost in sales...

And again, a lot white folks have ignored OFW at the time of the release... And this albumis still unknown to most white folks, while this is BY FAR one of the most POPULAR album among black folks...

And your comment shows how white you are...

Lord have mercy, now Timmy is white.

vainandy said:

He who doesn't believe in the shit krayzie speaks about is a racist white devil. But I guess I must have reverse vitiligo:

And did you hear about this? Yo, I don't know what happened, I looked fair and had straight hair then when I was fifteen, I discovered a blotch on my skin that wasn't from a brown marker and I got darker and darker. People thought I was dissing "my race" but I got a skin disorder called afuckinglifeigotitis and it made me eat barbecue chicken and shit and my hair got nappy and I grew an Afro at one time. It was funny because this was around the SAME TIME when Michael went from this:



To this:



But apparently compared to me and an actual white dude (my brother from another mother now), vainandy, I'm "white" compared to the now-pale (albeit still "African-American") Michael Jackson.

Guess it matters if you're black or white, huh?

Oh yeah HEAL THE WORLD/MAKE IT A BETTER PLACE/FOR YOU AND FOR ME/AND FOR THE...whatever.


"Ign'ant".
[Edited 4/25/08 10:43am]

Nice picture. You favor Marvin in your avatar.

vainandy said:

Thanx. HamsterHuey, I believe, said the same thing.

Timmy84 said:

Marvin? Sheeeeeit! With that "70s porn star mustache," he look like BILLY DEE, don't he?




Timmy84: "You want my arm to fall off?"

MuthaFunka said:

Billy Dee ain't got shit on me. Fuck a Colt 45, I'm promoting Malt Liquor, mothafucka:



Yeah I know it's old but I'm bringing it back and where is Billie Holiday? She better have my money, I'm Louis McKay, bitch!

vainandy said:

you know who else you favor?


Mr. Rodney King!

TonyVanDam said:

"hood"

how 3rd grade...

anyhow...I think blacks prefer MJ over Prince because MJ has always had more of a r&b/pop sound...SO MANY blacks have said to me, "Prince plays white music." I'm assuming that since Prince "DARES" to incorporate all different sounds including a lot of rock elements(coincidentally a genre of music created by blacks) vs having a strong r&b sound only, then he's trying to sound white

bboy87 said:

Man HELL NAW!

"Can't we all just get along, y'all, damn, I mean, er... damn my head STILL bleeding from the nightstick, shit!"

Timmy84 said:

bboy87 said:

Aw dayum!

krayzie said:

Excuse me, but how old are you? I'm asking because from black people in my demographic I don't agree with this question that you put forth as a truth. As a black woman, I'm having a difficult time understanding how you came to this conclusino that African Americans prefer Michael Jackson over Prince- you certainly don't speak for me or any of the black people I know in how they perceive or accept Michael's music post "Thriller". Additionally, at this point all your posts have a VERY clear pattern of being insulting, subjective, hypothetical, with intention to bait and to feed a need to troll. You've been baiting orgers left and right, criticizing their taste, beliefs, and experiences with regards to music, and often based on their race. Additionally you put forth your view as an infallible one while being blatantly rude to anyone with an experience or perspective diffrent from yours.

NEWSFLASH: you don't rule this topic here simply by virtue of your opinion, so if you can't be open to hear how others reflect on your question, or have different experiences and perspectives regarding it without trolling, perhaps it might be time to refer this thread to Org Moderation. Rudely dismissing people who want to participate is sooo not cool, and all this lunchtime back & forth schoolyard squabbling is becoming fatiguing. We are all of different minds, backrounds, and opinions here, and NO ONE's experience with regard to music is any less valid than yours

vainandy said:

I'm not even gonna waste my time with a white dude who can't differentiate Disco and Funkmusic...

Michael Jackson won 3 American Music Awards 1980 for

-Favorite Soul/R&B Album (Off The Wall),
-Favorite Soul/R&B Male Artist, and
-Favorite Soul/R&B Single ("Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough").



American music awards are determined by black radio stations and buyers...

-Michael Jackson won a Grammy Award for Best R&B Vocal Performance - Male ("Don't Stop Till You Get Enough")

Michael Jackson won 2 more American Music Awards for :
-Favorite Soul/R&B Male Artist and
-Favorite Soul/R&B Album (Off The Wall) and was nominated for Favorite Pop/Rock Album (Off The Wall).

Again, you are completely wrong... You shit about black music...

vainandy said:

But you are RIGHT, I know nothing about white folks, but I never PRETEND TO DO SO... That's the difference between me and you... You talk about something you don't know,... You know nothing about blackmusic but pretend toknow about black music... Instead of you, I never talk about white music, white culture, and white artists.. Indeed I don't care... Because they suck... I only care about black artists, Prince is black, not white...

vainandy said:

Nope, Off The Wall was NOT a "crossover" hit, it was a HUGE success among the black audience, the people attending the Destiny tour were black, those who responded greatly to Off the wall were black radio stations and black people...

The crowd at the Destiny Tour was overwhelming BLACK...

vainandy said:

Yeah right, we loved Disco, and the Bee Gees... We loved to see white folks stealing our sound (again) and make into something disgusting, rythmless, soulless,unlistenable, and awful... We love it so much that when Disco music disapeared, almost any artist associated with that crap disapeared as well...

My friend, black folks never took Disco acts serioulsy... Never...

vainandy said:

Again, you are confusing Disco and Black music... For white folks, Disco and Black music is pretty similar (how sad)... Hearing this statement makes me sick... But again coming from you, I'm not suprised...

Disco is soulless music, poor singing, and rythmless song... The matterof fact

vainandy said:

Please, Please, Please, Donna Summer is the example of what Disco was all about rythmless, soul less music... Her music was for white folks... Donna Summer disappeared, when white folks get tired of Disco crap... Since then she never came back...

And don't confuse Donna Summer with Rick James, The Barkays, Brick, The Isley Brothers, Earth, Wind, and Fire, these folks are REAL SOUL ARTISTS... The only reason why some of them made some Disco oriented records was only to make some money ... NOT BECAUSE THEY LOVED DISCO CRAP...
Even James Brown made Disco songs.

I don't blame them for that, they are black they have to live, at that time the Bee Gees were selling tens of millions of records by stealing the black sound...

vainandy said:

Oh really ?? Tell me what's so ignorant about what I've said, I'M ONE OF VERY THE FEW ON PRINCE.ORG who has raised several times the issues of race and racism in the music industry... And I know that everytime I speak up about these issues, a lot of folks get pissed off, ALO OF FOLKS... I know the roots of black music... I've worked in the music industry for a while now... And I have nothing to learn from you on that subject... Most of the time, when I point out the double standard and the struggles of black artists in the music industry, you quickly got some folks right there trying to explain with lame excuse that "it has nothing to do with racism"...

And please, I've never pretended to be the "spokeperson" for black people...

vainandy said:

My friend, I've never said "no white people whatsoever are capable of having any soul" ... But what I've said is white people can't make music like us...
They can't sing like us, they can't entertain like us...

And I'm happy about that...

Because if they could do everything like us, that would be the end of black artists ... The reason why black artists are still relevant in the music industry is because white folks can't do things the way we do...

And there's nothing racist about that, that's the true.

Until now I've never seen white artists as good as Prince, James Brown, Donnie Hattaway, Marvin Gaye just to name a few...

vainandy said:

My friend, have you checked every single OF MY POSTS to claim that I've never discussed once about funk music since I've been a orger ???

Meaningless...

vainandy said:

My friend, you can say whatever you want about me... I don't care, but all I know remains the same, you know shit about black music... Black music is more than a bunch of negroes dancin and entertaining you... This is much deeper than that... But I think you'll never understand that... And please, you don't even know the type of muisc I listen to and support...

Man fuck an argument, it's time to fuck this thread up, Michael, tell it how it is, brotha:



"How disturbing..."

vainandy said:

Oh yes, I'm sure, he is... And this is not the first time I said it...

Eddie Murphy, how Michael performs "She's Out of My Life"?



"Give me some tissue, Tito! Jermaine, stop teasing!"

krayzie said:

O.K, then tell me how did Off the Wall became the the #3 album of 1980 if it didn't crossover,and this was back before any black artist could get any type of airplay on top40 radio. and just because off the wall was big in the black community. The album and it's two singles charted on the top ten pop charts, it got airplay on top 40 radio so it still crossover whether or not he did not intend for the album to crossover. Hell even James Brown had songs that crossover, and he was strictly r&b

carlluv said:

This is how greater MJ was pop as R&B in 1979-80:

"Don't Stop..." (1979):
#1 pop, #1 R&B

"Rock With You" (1980):
#1 pop, #1 R&B

"Off the Wall" (1980):
#5 pop, #5 R&B (pretty much EVEN)

Now here come the doozy:

"She's Out of My Life" (1980):
#10 pop, #43 R&B

Compare to someone like Marvin Gaye, ok, here's his chart stats from his 1966 album, Moods of Marvin Gaye:

The album hit #8 on the R&B chart, but peaked at a disappointing #118 on the pop chart.

Singles chart stats:

"I'll Be Doggone":
#8 pop, #1 R&B

"Ain't That Peculiar":
#8 pop, #1 R&B

"One More Heartache":
#29 pop, #4 R&B

"Take This Heart of Mine":
#44 pop, #10 R&B

"Little Darling (I Need You)":
#47 pop, #16 R&B

"Your Unchanging Love":
#33 pop, #7 R&B

Four top forty singles, two top ten singles, two top 50 hits on the Billboard Hot 100, six top forty R&B hits, five of them hit the top ten on the R&B chart and two of the songs hit #1 on the R&B chart.

And this was rare for R&B artists to have that much top 40 singles off one album but the album didn't get much promotion in the mainstream to sell as well as albums by artists like the Four Tops and the Supremes and Stevie Wonder. Marvin didn't hit the top 40 of the POP ALBUMS chart until 1969's M.P.G., which peaked at #40.

Michael and his brothers' group albums and solo albums hit the top 10/40 almost instantly when they came out! Marvin didn't really sell mainstream sales until the 1970s when virtually all of his albums with the exception of Trouble Man (#14) and Here, My Dear (#26) hit the POP TOP TEN.

The reason OTW didn't get bigger mainstream push that it did was only because videos weren't populated back then, plus there was already a backlash against black artists on mainstream radio so Off the Wall took everyone by surprise and when Thriller came back, Michael worked on a strategy that got him the mainstream press he TRULY wanted partially thanks to his pop-friendly fan base and the fact that Walter Yetnikoff was a tough as hell businessman and his word was the gospel because he threatened to tell MTV that the network was scared to accept black or pop/R&B artists. Oddly Rick James was the guy who told MTV about themselves. So think of it, Michael Jackson's success even with Off the Wall was amazing looking back on it.

The reason why the media (of all races) accepted Michael over PRINCE was because Prince was dangerous and controversial.

You gonna promote an androgynous black man with a processed perm, wearing only a trenchcoat, bikini thongs and boots on playing rock guitar and producing songs under a NEW WAVE/POST-PUNK beat? Not to mention his funk output! COME ON!

Of course you gonna wanna prefer a brotha with the best curls in the world, dressing in a tux, and singing in falsetto and dancing like James Brown.

SHAMON!

Now he's going to cling to the large number of R&B sales and awards and act as if that large amount of R&B success means that the pop success didn't even exist. Mommy and daddy must have not been home to give him some good answers for a comeback.

And poor Donna Summer, she must have been stranded on "Gilligan's Island" after her "Bad Girls" album in 1979 because she was never heard from again.

vainandy said:

Yeah like Ed Sullivan was black when the Jackson 5 were put on the show in 1969. Oh yeah Michael's only fan base was R&B before "Thriller".

He sure is. In that picture he posted, he's wearing the black mask that I lent him. We wear it to fool the general public into thinking that we are black. But we can't fool you. No sir, you're too smart for us.
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[Edited 4/25/08 13:01pm]

vainandy said:

You should join the nWo!

but someone has been blackballed.

Here's a hint. His name starts with K and rhymes with rayzie.

vainandy said:

Yeah it's a mask you can only get HERE: