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Thread started 08/04/22 5:32pm

lurker316

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Prince's use of samples


Forgive my ignorance, but when did Prince first beging using samples as a significant element of his songs?

By "significant element", I'm excluding things like Zappa's "Bizarre!", the marching feet in Free, or the snippets of Batman dialogue he used to accent songs on that soundtrack.

In other words, I'm not talking about brief clips of spoken dialogue or sound effects that appear for a moment in a song.

Rather, I'm talking about sampling music and making that the backbone of a song (looping it).

Was it on the Diamonds and Pearls album?



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Reply #1 posted 08/04/22 6:53pm

LoveGalore

Graffiti Bridge was the first album using samples as a core element of the song. Specifically, Release It and Tick Tick Bang.
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Reply #2 posted 08/05/22 2:55am

NoSwan

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Tell me how U wanna b done is a "whole" song made from just a sample from The Continental.

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Reply #3 posted 08/05/22 6:54am

lurker316

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NoSwan said:

Tell me how U wanna b done is a "whole" song made from just a sample from The Continental.


That was after Graffiti Bridge and Diamonds and Pearls.


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Reply #4 posted 08/05/22 6:55am

lurker316

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LoveGalore said:

Graffiti Bridge was the first album using samples as a core element of the song. Specifically, Release It and Tick Tick Bang.


Oh yeah, I forgot about those two songs. Thanks for the reminder!


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Reply #5 posted 08/06/22 10:14am

erik319

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Lovesexy used samples.

Batman really used samples.
blah blah blah
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Reply #6 posted 08/06/22 1:04pm

Revolution81

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LoveGalore said:

Graffiti Bridge was the first album using samples as a core element of the song. Specifically, Release It and Tick Tick Bang.

-

Theres also "Funky" recorded in '89

What's the use in half a story, half a dream
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Reply #7 posted 08/06/22 1:25pm

LoveGalore

erik319 said:

Lovesexy used samples.

Batman really used samples.


I think the OP pointed out that he's looking for samples lifted from other songs that form the basis of a new song rather than pastiche samples like you see on Batdance or the sound effects you hear on 1999 and beyond.
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Reply #8 posted 08/06/22 1:26pm

LoveGalore

Revolution81 said:



LoveGalore said:


Graffiti Bridge was the first album using samples as a core element of the song. Specifically, Release It and Tick Tick Bang.

-


Theres also "Funky" recorded in '89



Yup. I love that one, btw. Wish he released it as a b side!
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Reply #9 posted 08/06/22 4:17pm

lurker316

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LoveGalore said:

erik319 said:
Lovesexy used samples. Batman really used samples.
I think the OP pointed out that he's looking for samples lifted from other songs that form the basis of a new song rather than pastiche samples like you see on Batdance or the sound effects you hear on 1999 and beyond.

Yes, that's correct.

I'm not asking about sound effects or dialogue snippets that are used for brief moments in a song.

I'm asking about sampling music and making that the backbone of a song, by looping it or whatever.


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Reply #10 posted 08/07/22 2:07pm

psyche2

On the Nude Tour he heavily sampled James Brown's Get On The Good Foot at some of the encores, when he performed Brother With A Purpose and Testin Positive For The Funk

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Reply #11 posted 08/07/22 2:25pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Batman
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Reply #12 posted 08/07/22 4:14pm

invinciblehobo

I think we are going for samples from other artist's songs? This first I remember hearing is the bass line in "7' - I know it's a sample but I cannot remember where it is from....

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Reply #13 posted 08/07/22 5:12pm

lurker316

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Batman


As I've explained a couple of times above, I'm not talking about sound effects, Zappa's "Bizarre!", movie dialogue, or any other momentary, non-musical clips used to accent a song. If that were the case, then we could go back to the sound effects on 1999 (e.g. the marching feet on Free).

I'm asking about building a song around a looped sample of music. Unless I'm mistaken, nothing on Batman fits that discription.




[Edited 8/7/22 17:13pm]

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Reply #14 posted 08/07/22 5:42pm

nosajd

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Orgasm’s backing guitar solo is sampled from Private Joy.
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Reply #15 posted 08/07/22 8:30pm

LoveGalore

invinciblehobo said:

I think we are going for samples from other artist's songs? This first I remember hearing is the bass line in "7' - I know it's a sample but I cannot remember where it is from....



Not the bass, but the drum loop is sampled from Tramp. He was in a drum sample mood in 1989-1992.
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Reply #16 posted 08/08/22 7:55am

JorisE73

LoveGalore said:

erik319 said:
Lovesexy used samples. Batman really used samples.
I think the OP pointed out that he's looking for samples lifted from other songs that form the basis of a new song rather than pastiche samples like you see on Batdance or the sound effects you hear on 1999 and beyond.



Years ago someone who was on here detailed how Batdance were 3 or 4 songs (Rave 89 songs and Anna Fantastic tracks) stitched together with movie samples in it to make it. So Batdance doesn't use pastiche samples the complete thing is 3 or 4 songs edited into one.

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Reply #17 posted 08/08/22 8:56am

lurker316

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JorisE73 said:

LoveGalore said:

erik319 said: I think the OP pointed out that he's looking for samples lifted from other songs that form the basis of a new song rather than pastiche samples like you see on Batdance or the sound effects you hear on 1999 and beyond.



Years ago someone who was on here detailed how Batdance were 3 or 4 songs (Rave 89 songs and Anna Fantastic tracks) stitched together with movie samples in it to make it. So Batdance doesn't use pastiche samples the complete thing is 3 or 4 songs edited into one.


Sure, but that's more of a mash-up, isn't it?

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs, but with Batdance, Prince took the tapes (or digitial recordings) of complete sections of songs and spliced them together. I suppose you could characterize that as sampling, but that's not really what comes to my mind.

When I think of forming a song out of samples, I imagine using some ditigal means to record a small snippet of a song (perhaps only a measure or a few measures) and then looping it while adding new instrumentation and vocals overtop.

Compare the processes for creating Batdance with the process for creating Tick, Tick, Bang:

With Batdance, he took a minute-plus of one song, edited it onto a mniute-plus of a second song, and so on, unitl he'ed spliced together four minute-plus segements of four songs. Then he just tossed some movie dialogue on top.

In contrast, with Tick, Tick, Bang he recorded a few seconds of music, hit repeat so it would loop, and then added other instruments and vocals overtop tof that to create a new song.


[Edited 8/8/22 9:02am]

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Reply #18 posted 08/08/22 10:02am

FrankieCoco1

From May 1988, “Escape” (a.k.a. “Escape (Free Yo Mind From This Rat Race)”) comes to my mind.

It contains samples from the song “Glam Slam” and the introductory lyrics (‘Kick drum pounds on the two and four, all the party people get on the floor’) were from “Rebirth Of The Flesh”.

I did also think about Rearrange and Lady Cab Driver, but not really sampling as you put it. Also “Eye No” uses large parts of “The Ball” but again not for me sampling in the truest form.
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Reply #19 posted 08/08/22 11:07am

LoveGalore

Did some people here completely miss the Bad Boy Records era? Famous for basing new songs off the beat of an old song? Why does this seem so tough to parse here? lol.

In the US, "sampling" is more often used to describe the process above - taking the beat of one song and writing new lyrics overtop.

So, they looped a sample of Diana Ross's "I'm Coming Out" and wrote new lyrics to create "Mo Money Mo Problems".

Prince took the beat of Hendrix's "Little Miss Lover" and sang the lyrics to "Tick Tick Bang" over it.

"Batdance" is a completely different fucking thing. Both sampling, but not the same execution whatsoever.
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Reply #20 posted 08/08/22 11:46am

lurker316

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FrankieCoco1 said:

From May 1988, “Escape” (a.k.a. “Escape (Free Yo Mind From This Rat Race)”) comes to my mind. It contains samples from the song “Glam Slam” and the introductory lyrics (‘Kick drum pounds on the two and four, all the party people get on the floor’) were from “Rebirth Of The Flesh”. I did also think about Rearrange and Lady Cab Driver, but not really sampling as you put it. Also “Eye No” uses large parts of “The Ball” but again not for me sampling in the truest form.



Yeah, Eye No definitely didn't "sample" The Ball. It reused the STEMs with a new vocal track. If you were to define sampling that way, then you'd have to say The Glamorous Life was sampled because Prince added a new vocal track to the STEMs (swapping out his volcals for Shiela's).


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Reply #21 posted 08/08/22 11:48am

lurker316

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LoveGalore said:

Did some people here completely miss the Bad Boy Records era? Famous for basing new songs off the beat of an old song? Why does this seem so tough to parse here? lol. In the US, "sampling" is more often used to describe the process above - taking the beat of one song and writing new lyrics overtop. So, they looped a sample of Diana Ross's "I'm Coming Out" and wrote new lyrics to create "Mo Money Mo Problems". Prince took the beat of Hendrix's "Little Miss Lover" and sang the lyrics to "Tick Tick Bang" over it. "Batdance" is a completely different fucking thing. Both sampling, but not the same execution whatsoever.



Thank you. YOu're explaining it better than I am.

The other things people are referencing may tachnically be sampling, but they aren't what I'm asking about. I"m talking about the process you described, where you copy a bit of existing music and make it the base for a new song. Having a one-second clip of Michael Keaton saying "Viki Vale" isn't the same thing.


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Reply #22 posted 08/08/22 12:37pm

FrankieCoco1

Let’s Work (Dance Remix) “contains sampled clips from Private Joy, Annie Christian and Controversy, the first time a Prince song sampled another of his songs.”

https://princevault.com/i...t’s_Work

Noticed this from a comment by djtunderfunk on this thread:

https://prince.org/msg/7/448712

And some more things about Prince sampling himself on here:

https://prince.org/msg/7/410395
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Reply #23 posted 08/08/22 1:01pm

LoveGalore

FrankieCoco1 said:

Let’s Work (Dance Remix) “contains sampled clips from Private Joy, Annie Christian and Controversy, the first time a Prince song sampled another of his songs.”

https://princevault.com/i...t’s_Work

Noticed this from a comment by djtunderfunk on this thread:

https://prince.org/msg/7/448712

And some more things about Prince sampling himself on here:

https://prince.org/msg/7/410395


Let's Work would not fit this context. That, like Batdance and My Name Is Prince, is just a series of samples used to punctuate a single portion of the song.

That said, the one song I think might fit the criteria that is also in those threads would be the Shock G remix of Love Sign that samples the hook on DMSR as a permanent aspect of the remix's musical track (which is clearly distinct from samples like Bonnie's The Line #2 shout as a musical expression).
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Reply #24 posted 08/08/22 2:19pm

lurker316

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FrankieCoco1 said:

Let’s Work (Dance Remix) “contains sampled clips from Private Joy, Annie Christian and Controversy, the first time a Prince song sampled another of his songs.” https://princevault.com/i...t’s_Work Noticed this from a comment by djtunderfunk on this thread: https://prince.org/msg/7/448712 And some more things about Prince sampling himself on here: https://prince.org/msg/7/410395


No, that's not what I'm talking about. "Let's Work" has momentary snippets used to accent a song (as @Lovegalore describes above). It does not loop a musical element to form the backbone of a song.

In other words, within "Let's Work" there is a three-second snippet of "Private Joy".

In contrast, the song "Tick, Tick, Bang" is based entirely on a looped drum sample. It's not a snippet use for a brief accent -- it's the entire goddamn song.

Do you see the difference?




[Edited 8/8/22 14:20pm]

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Reply #25 posted 08/08/22 2:35pm

FrankieCoco1

lurker316 said:



FrankieCoco1 said:


Let’s Work (Dance Remix) “contains sampled clips from Private Joy, Annie Christian and Controversy, the first time a Prince song sampled another of his songs.” https://princevault.com/i...t’s_Work Noticed this from a comment by djtunderfunk on this thread: https://prince.org/msg/7/448712 And some more things about Prince sampling himself on here: https://prince.org/msg/7/410395


No, that's not what I'm talking about. "Let's Work" has momentary snippets used to accent a song (as @Lovegalore describes above). It does not loop a musical element to form the backbone of a song.

In other words, within "Let's Work" there is a three-second snippet of "Private Joy".

In contrast, the song "Tick, Tick, Bang" is based entirely on a looped drum sample. It's not a snippet use for a brief accent -- it's the entire goddamn song.

Do you see the difference?






[Edited 8/8/22 14:20pm]



Oh, I see the difference, but your tone makes it’s difficult to contribute anymore to the discussion. Perhaps look stuff up yourself.
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Reply #26 posted 08/11/22 1:06am

mediumdry

The synclavier was one of the first sample machines. It is used, amongs other things, for all the samples you mentioned that Prince used to, well, make his songs worse.

.

It is, amongst many other tracks, used quite prominently on It, to the point where it defines the song. (the orchestra hits) Prince never went quite to the extremes that you saw in some of the earlier hiphop, where they essentially made remixes of songs with some rapping over it and sold it as new songs. (and get of my lawn you kids! razz )

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #27 posted 08/11/22 1:22am

LoveGalore

mediumdry said:

The synclavier was one of the first sample machines. It is used, amongs other things, for all the samples you mentioned that Prince used to, well, make his songs worse.


.


It is, amongst many other tracks, used quite prominently on It, to the point where it defines the song. (the orchestra hits) Prince never went quite to the extremes that you saw in some of the earlier hiphop, where they essentially made remixes of songs with some rapping over it and sold it as new songs. (and get of my lawn you kids! razz )



To your latter point - you don't think Tick Tick Bang is just that? Idk about anyone else here but I almost slip into singing Hendrix in my head when I hear tick tick bang
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Reply #28 posted 08/11/22 2:27am

JorisE73

LoveGalore said:

Did some people here completely miss the Bad Boy Records era? Famous for basing new songs off the beat of an old song? Why does this seem so tough to parse here? lol. In the US, "sampling" is more often used to describe the process above - taking the beat of one song and writing new lyrics overtop. So, they looped a sample of Diana Ross's "I'm Coming Out" and wrote new lyrics to create "Mo Money Mo Problems". Prince took the beat of Hendrix's "Little Miss Lover" and sang the lyrics to "Tick Tick Bang" over it


That;s exactly what he did in Batdance.
The middle portion after the guitar solo is said to be a sample of a different song that he put different lyrics on for example (sure it's not really lyrics and mostly voice samples and Electric Chair and We Got The Power lyrics, but still)

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Reply #29 posted 08/11/22 9:55am

FrankieCoco1

Some might remember that Chuck Zwicky mentioned in a Facebook post in November 2016 of the use of the Publison to use samples of Debussy’s “Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune” and Stravinsky’s “The Firebird” in “Shall We Dance”, which has vault tape date of 2 January 1989.

The use of the the Publison to trigger samples is also mentioned on the unreleased track “Come Back 2 Me”, tracking date of 29 September 1988. As this track on Prince Vault is described in the vein of The Dance Electric and Shall We Dance, let’s hope it gets a release.

There’s no firm date (at least not on Prince vault) for the re-recording of “Tick, Tick, Bang” but it appears on the late ‘89 configurations of Graffiti Bridge. So fits into to the autumn/fall/late 1989 period.
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