violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

Susannah taking credit for inspiring Crystal Ball was a bit of a stretch. I’m sure she’s inspired plenty of classic Prince songs. Seems a little thirsty to take credit for that one because he maybe wrote a line inspired by her mural. [Edited 9/3/20 17:06pm]

You're surprised about that??? Didn't you know Sussanah, her family, and crew from back then says practically every song after 1982 is a song Prince wrote about Susannah?? [Edited 9/3/20 20:09pm]

mushmackalenta said:

Dorothy Parker with Horns defo sounds like a Frankenstein creation. Those horns don't fit. Should be labelled the Frankenstein mix.

One of the Parade songs with Claire's work was leaked a while back (One of our very own may have been the source as it was shared with someone they thought they could trust) and to me it has that same sound... the horns on Dorthy Parker are too loud just as the orchestration was too loud in that bootleg.. almost as if it was not the final mix...in both cases.

icecreamcastle777 said:

violetcrush said:

THe journalist was trying to get Prince to insult Susannah?? NOW who is the one trying to get into someone else's mind to create the narrative??!!! The journalist questioned him AGAIN, because, as typical, Prince was being VERY vague in his response about the inspiration for the ENTIRE song. He attributed ONE lyric to Vanity - her leaving the film.

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Question: where did Prince state "no, the song had nothing to do with my feelings for Susannah Melvoin at that time"??? Show me where he actually answered the journalist's question directly. He didn't. Instead, he went on a deflective rant about the entire song being about "nothing carnal" and only a "spiritual" inspiration. Okay, sure, then that would take Vanity out of the mix too.

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Prince did this ALL THE TIME when he did not want to divulge his personal feelings about his songs. Either HE was the one giving the information on HIS terms, or he would not talk about it. Classic Prince. Which brings us to his first P&M show January 2016, where he verbally addressed how he wrote TBO to "cop" or get a girl. HIS terms. He was the one deciding what he was going to divulge to his fans without a reporter directing the conversation. Pretty easy to figure that out.

Don't be intentionally obtuse. You said it yourself. Prince didn't mention Susannah by name when he started his correction about the song (even though all the fans knew exactly who he was talking about) he started off like this, "I was talking to somebody about The Beautiful Ones. They were speculating as to who I was singing about, but they were completely wrong." He did not mention Susannah's name to the journalists and went on to make his correction IN DETAIL about the scene and Vanity inspiring the song. Why do you think Prince didn't say Susannah's name even though everyone knew he was talking about her? Can't you see he was trying to have some tact towards Susannah? If you can't understand why a journalist would bring back up the discussion, bypassing Prince's DETAILED comment and mentioning Susannah by name to get some more tea about her not inspiring the song, and then Prince putting him on pause by putting a stop on the whole subject, then you're mind is just set against comprehending the whole damn article and I don't have time for it with you. Byeeee . [Edited 9/5/20 7:16am]

OMG....we are back on this hampster wheel AGAIN!!!!

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1. Prince linked Vanity to ONE lyric in the song - "the beautiful ones always smash the picture".

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2. Prince was describing a conversation he had with someone in order to deny the years long account of his falling for Susannah during that time period.

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3. The reason the journalist asked a second time, and more specifically about Susannah, is because Prince ONLY connected ONE lyric to Vanity in the song. The REST OF THE SONG relates to Prince being beyond frustrated ("you make me so confused..." and "do you want him, or do you want me..I gotta know, I gotta know...") about not being able to be with the girl he wants because she is with another guy. So yeah, he's going to ask again with more detail.

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4. And when the reporter asked AGAIN and included Susannah's name....Prince STILL did not say "NO" - he gave a completely different reply stating he was not writing about "anything carnal" - that it was a "spiritual connection" to reach "somewhere over the rainbow". Okay, sure.

*

*

So, if you are accepting his above (and more detailed) reply as complete truth and fact then you cannot state that TBO was inspired by Vanity either - with the exception of the one lyric which he connected to her, because she had left the film. The rest of the song has nothing to do with her leaving. It is all about his frustration with not being able to have the woman he has been pursuing, because she is with another guy. Hmmm...

muleFunk said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

SchlomoThaHomo said: You're surprised about that??? Didn't you know Sussanah, her family, and crew from back then says practically every song after 1982 is a song Prince wrote about Susannah?? [Edited 9/3/20 20:09pm]

OMG blah blah blah blah blah!!!

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Haters gonna hate, that is for sure. And yes Crystal Ball IS connected to Susannah. Apparently, she was an "expert lover" in Prince's view, and she drew pictures of sex in wacky detail all over his wall. Sounds like it was a fun time for both of them

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Lucky her

Who gives an absolute fuck about Vanity or Susannah or The Beautiful Ones? This is about Dream Factory, not which of his sexual conquests was y'alls fav. Fucking hell. Go to LipstickAlley with that shit.

LoveGalore said:

Who gives an absolute fuck about Vanity or Susannah or The Beautiful Ones? This is about Dream Factory, not which of his sexual conquests was y'alls fav. Fucking hell. Go to LipstickAlley with that shit.

Hey, I did not start the merry-go-round/hampster wheel back up again. The "Susannah haters" always find a way to get it going.

*

However, considering the fact that Susannah Melvoin, her history with Prince, and her discussion about this time period, are the main feature of this episode I would say that any debate over some songs stated to be connected to her would be relevant here.

*

I just think it's hilarious that folks keep coming back to the same old denials - even with more detail than ever before given by folks in the camp back then.

violetcrush said:

LoveGalore said:

Who gives an absolute fuck about Vanity or Susannah or The Beautiful Ones? This is about Dream Factory, not which of his sexual conquests was y'alls fav. Fucking hell. Go to LipstickAlley with that shit.

Hey, I did not start the merry-go-round/hampster wheel back up again. The "Susannah haters" always find a way to get it going.

*

However, considering the fact that Susannah Melvoin, her history with Prince, and her discussion about this time period, are the main feature of this episode I would say that any debate over some songs stated to be connected to her would be relevant here.

*

I just think it's hilarious that folks keep coming back to the same old denials - even with more detail than ever before given by folks in the camp back then.

Dude, let it go. Just let it the fuck go. This argument has gone on for decades and those of us who truly do not give a single flying fuck who Prince slept with and which song he wrote for them are begging you, for the collective sanity of the group, to just let it go. You don't have to course-correct anyone. This isn't a deposition. None of you silly people know who the fuck he wrote what for unless he explicitly stated it regardless of what these people AROUND HIM say.

BTW Sheila E still states she wrote Glamorous Life. The people around Prince are COMPLICATED and most often will say things that are totally fucking inaccurate (like Lisa saying Wonderful Ass was about Susannah and Wendy).

There is someone else who says they were the inspiration and that several songs are about them. And I can see some of the points but some are just "no..."

And again even if some person is the spark of inspiration that is not always the same as that song being about them. "Housequake" was inspired when he heard some foot steps that made a beat... so he (as the story goes) left that place and when and did the song--but the song is not about how someone's shoes sounded on a floor as they walked.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

There is someone else who says they were the inspiration and that several songs are about them. And I can see some of the points but some are just "no..."

And again even if some person is the spark of inspiration that is not always the same as that song being about them. "Housequake" was inspired when he heard some foot steps that made a beat... so he (as the story goes) left that place and when and did the song--but the song is not about how someone's shoes sounded on a floor as they walked.

The BEAT of the song came from Prince hearing the sound of his boots hitting the wood floor - NOT the inspirations for the lyrics. Although, you can even argue to that point as well - in terms of Prince getting the idea for the "housequake" lyrics based on that catchy drum beat.

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LoveGalore said:

violetcrush said:

Hey, I did not start the merry-go-round/hampster wheel back up again. The "Susannah haters" always find a way to get it going.

*

However, considering the fact that Susannah Melvoin, her history with Prince, and her discussion about this time period, are the main feature of this episode I would say that any debate over some songs stated to be connected to her would be relevant here.

*

I just think it's hilarious that folks keep coming back to the same old denials - even with more detail than ever before given by folks in the camp back then.

Dude, let it go. Just let it the fuck go. This argument has gone on for decades and those of us who truly do not give a single flying fuck who Prince slept with and which song he wrote for them are begging you, for the collective sanity of the group, to just let it go. You don't have to course-correct anyone. This isn't a deposition. None of you silly people know who the fuck he wrote what for unless he explicitly stated it regardless of what these people AROUND HIM say.

BTW Sheila E still states she wrote Glamorous Life. The people around Prince are COMPLICATED and most often will say things that are totally fucking inaccurate (like Lisa saying Wonderful Ass was about Susannah and Wendy).

I agree that certain songs were misconstrued based on the fact that associates may not have known the song was previously recorded and Prince was just wanting to edit or finish it. Lisa most likely was not aware that Prince had done WA and SR prior to working on it together with Prince in '86. I get that. However, many songs - based on logic, time frame, and his situation at the time can easily be connected.

*

I get that you and others don't care either way about his inspiration for the songs, and that is fine. However, there are many who are interested or curious, because WE KNOW he wrote the songs based on his own experiences with people and the world surrounding him.

*

Prince himself, on his first album, first track:

*

violetcrush said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

There is someone else who says they were the inspiration and that several songs are about them. And I can see some of the points but some are just "no..."

And again even if some person is the spark of inspiration that is not always the same as that song being about them. "Housequake" was inspired when he heard some foot steps that made a beat... so he (as the story goes) left that place and when and did the song--but the song is not about how someone's shoes sounded on a floor as they walked.

The BEAT of the song came from Prince hearing the sound of his boots hitting the wood floor - NOT the inspirations for the lyrics. Although, you can even argue to that point as well - in terms of Prince getting the idea for the "housequake" lyrics based on that catchy drum beat.

*

Housequake
Everybody jump up and down
Housequake
There's a brand new groove going round (housequake)

In your funky town (housequake)
And the kick drum is the fault
You gotta rock this mother, say (housequake)
We gotta rock this mother, say (housequake), unh unh

We're gonna show you what to do
You put your foot down on the two
You jump up on the one
Now you're having fun, huh
You're doing, the housequake
Yeah

*

He's literally describing the "beat" or "groove" he created when he was walking across the floor. So, we CAN say the lyrics are also inspired by the story of how his shoes created the song.

again the sound of the boots was in inspiration... just like he said (I think) in the 85 rolling stone interview that he would be brushing his teeth and there would be a groove and he would have to get on a bass.(or something like that).

insperations would come from anywhere... that spark... so the spark for "crystal ball" may very well been the pictures and they were together at the time... so sure she was an inspiration for many songs at that time.

Even if they are not all about her. A non Prince example is "Sweet Caroline" by Neil Diamond. The song and its namesake was a little girl named "Caroline" but the song itself is HOPEFULLY not about her.

Just like elements of "Little Red Corvette" seem to be about Vanity as well as one of his old girlfriends. He often took things from several places.

Oh! the opening line to "The Everlasting Now" was about Andy "Griff" Kistner who quit suddenly to go to school. But that song is not about him.

NME01 said:

RighteousOne said:

Pointless to compare. Each had their own unique traits. In terms of recording, I guess the band were more evident on the next album, Lovesexy. Just as brilliant, in my view, but for different reasons. When the LOVESEXY special edition podcast comes along, I'm sure you'll get your fill.

[Edited 9/3/20 11:43am]

[Edited 9/3/20 11:46am]

Do we know that the SOTT / LS band appeared much on the recording of LS? It all sounds very programmed to me, and would fit P getting excited about all his new PP gear. There was that BTS video of Femi showing a typical recording session output - think it was the recording of LoveSexy title track. Can't see why you'd need a live band for that. The Femi tells.it, it was typical P burning the midnight oil and layering the track on his own. Dance On could be more collaborative (with Shelia E).

He definitely wanted Lovesexy to sound like a band record (and it does), whether they played much on it or not. Eye No sounds like it could be an actual band recording in terms of instrumentation. You can hear prominent and distinguishable band backing vocals, and in some cases solo vocal parts, on Eye No, Alphabet St., Glam Slam, Anna Stesia, Dance On, Lovesexy, and Positivity. That's all but 2 songs.

violetcrush said:

LoveGalore said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

LoveGalore said:

Who gives an absolute fuck about Vanity or Susannah or The Beautiful Ones? This is about Dream Factory, not which of his sexual conquests was y'alls fav. Fucking hell. Go to LipstickAlley with that shit.

I was done cuz I know VioletCrush never lets anyone have the last word, but who the fuck are you to jump in talking about who's debating over their favorite sexual conquests? If I feel like someone is wrong about a article that I'm familiar with on a fucking discussion board, then I'm free to debate the shit out of it with that person. The debate started with The Dream Factory and ended up with the Beautiful Ones because the song and article was mentioned by someone. That's how the shit happens on a discussion board. It's easy to Skip the posts if you don't fucking like it. You're the only one who's allowed to to bring up other songs like Wonderful Ass and jump down the rabbit hole with VioletCrush? Na, I'm gonna debate what the fuck I want.

Okay icecream777, we actually agree on something here 'Tis true that one can choose to scroll past if/when they do not want to partake in a particular discussion/debate on a thread regardless of when it morphs into another aspect of the overall thread topic.

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For the record, I know we will never agree on TBO and the whole picture of the story of that song. And that is okay. Differing opinions/ideas are what makes the world more interesting, and opens us up to considering other options or viewpoints - or not. We get to make that choice.

*

We both are certainly passionate about Prince, his music, his inspirations, his loves, and his life. And that is a good thing!! It's what will keep his legacy alive - of coures the music being at the heart of it, but all of the other facets are important too, as they are what inspired his music.

LoveGalore said:

violetcrush said:

I agree that certain songs were misconstrued based on the fact that associates may not have known the song was previously recorded and Prince was just wanting to edit or finish it. Lisa most likely was not aware that Prince had done WA and SR prior to working on it together with Prince in '86. I get that. However, many songs - based on logic, time frame, and his situation at the time can easily be connected.

*

I get that you and others don't care either way about his inspiration for the songs, and that is fine. However, there are many who are interested or curious, because WE KNOW he wrote the songs based on his own experiences with people and the world surrounding him.

*

Prince himself, on his first album, first track:

*

All of this and more is for you
With love, sincerity and deepest care
My life with you I share

No, it's not about not caring about what inspired the song. It's that you people are ARGUING about something neither of you will ever know! Ever! You must absolutely come to grips with the reality that your estimation is your estimation and nobody else's - especially not Prince's. And he did indeed share aspects of his life. That does not mean his entire life is yours to objectify and scrutinize. The man told you as much as he ever wanted to or felt was necessary and everything else is fan fic.

You are 100% correct that I myself do not know the inspiration for Prince's songs. However, many of those closest to him during the time that he wrote his songs often DO in fact know, or at least they can explain what was happening in his life at that moment in time.

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Isn't that exactly what this episode is about?? More knowledge and an inside look at Prince and his music?? Susannah spent the better part of the almost 42 minute episode explaining the details of her planning the Glapin home, living with Prince, explaining some of the songs, and how he worked on a day-to-day basis. SHE was spending the time with him back then, witness to his creativity and also inspiring some of his songs. Did she inspire EVERY song?? Of course not. However, there are a good amount that clearly stemmed from his time with her. So, now we get to hear and learn more about it.

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It's a good thing

violetcrush said:

I thought LoveSexy was mainly Prince recording on his own??? Then the band learned the songs to play live.

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If you listen to the recent leaks of the lovesexy tracks you'll hear the band going through Eye Know a few times, building upon what was recorded before. I am quite sure it's the band as a whole. So at least some of the tracks they played a part in. Now, to what extend that band played a role in the recording of the Sign Of The Times album, I don't know. I think that they're not involved, but I might be completely wrong about that. I'm eager to find out in the coming podcasts.

the only Lovesexy songs with people other than P playing music is 'Eye No" and "Dance On"...Miko , Levi, Sheila, The Dr., Eric, Atlanta...also a lil eric & Atl on Positivity...the rest was all Prince by himself

How did we get on Lovesexy? (and the only song I can think of that was just Prince was "When 2 R in Love"

OnlyNDaUsa said:

How did we get on Lovesexy? (and the only song I can think of that was just Prince was "When 2 R in Love"

I think because there was discussion about whether or not the SOTT band had any involvement with the recordings of the songs on the SOTT record, and then someone stated they also did not do much on the LoveSexy songs either. I always thought that most of LoveSexy was Prince on his own in the studio, but I'm sure there are some songs that he recorded with all or some of the band. I guess we'll get the full scoop if/when Duane T. does a book on the 1987/88 period.

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From princevault.com:

*

While Sheila E. appears on drums for many of the album's tracks, the album was largely recorded solely by Prince. His full live band appeared on No, and some band members appeared in minor roles on Alphabet St., Anna Stesia, Lovesexy and Positivity. The album marks Cat and Boni Boyer's first appearances on a Prince album.

[Edited 9/5/20 10:16am]

violetcrush said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

How did we get on Lovesexy? (and the only song I can think of that was just Prince was "When 2 R in Love"

I think because there was discussion about whether or not the SOTT band had any involvement with the recordings of the songs on the SOTT record, and then someone stated they also did not do much on the LoveSexy songs either. I always thought that most of LoveSexy was Prince on his own in the studio, but I'm sure there are some songs that he recorded with all or some of the band. I guess we'll get the full scoop if/when Duane T. does a book on the 1987/88 period.

*

From princevault.com:

*

While Sheila E. appears on drums for many of the album's tracks, the album was largely recorded solely by Prince. His full live band appeared on No, and some band members appeared in minor roles on Alphabet St., Anna Stesia, Lovesexy and Positivity. The album marks Cat and Boni Boyer's first appearances on a Prince album.

[Edited 9/5/20 10:16am]

ahh... I am not sure why is it a big deal that some people played on some songs on SOTT? So what if others helped to shape some of the songs? Prince was the driving force...always. Did some people get less credit than they were due? Sure... and some maybe got more.

In some ways I see things that came out of a jam as mostly "works for hire." So giving credit was not always a given.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

violetcrush said:

I think because there was discussion about whether or not the SOTT band had any involvement with the recordings of the songs on the SOTT record, and then someone stated they also did not do much on the LoveSexy songs either. I always thought that most of LoveSexy was Prince on his own in the studio, but I'm sure there are some songs that he recorded with all or some of the band. I guess we'll get the full scoop if/when Duane T. does a book on the 1987/88 period.

*

From princevault.com:

*

While Sheila E. appears on drums for many of the album's tracks, the album was largely recorded solely by Prince. His full live band appeared on No, and some band members appeared in minor roles on Alphabet St., Anna Stesia, Lovesexy and Positivity. The album marks Cat and Boni Boyer's first appearances on a Prince album.

[Edited 9/5/20 10:16am]

ahh... I am not sure why is it a big deal that some people played on some songs on SOTT? So what if others helped to shape some of the songs? Prince was the driving force...always. Did some people get less credit than they were due? Sure... and some maybe got more.

In some ways I see things that came out of a jam as mostly "works for hire." So giving credit was not always a given.

I do agree. However, it seems that this period at least - leading up to the SOTT record - was so jam packed with creating new sounds, music, jams, etc. So, I think it is understandable why some would have expected more credit on some things. Just my opinion though. I think most agree that Prince was unpredictable when it came to how and when he gave credits on songs

donnyenglish said:

The 2 threads on the podcasts make me hope that the next 6 podcasts and future documentaries do not make the mistake of facilitating the narrative about how much influence associates had on his music. That debate always leads to a hornets nest. If they want to have a separate series on Prince’s influences then do that separately but it better start with people like Andre, Morris, Sheila, Larry G, Maceo and Sonny in addition to the Revolution because Prince would tell you those people were extremely influential. : I fault the Current for facilitating this by not having the podcasts focus solely on Prince’s majestic art. These podcasts have been a he said/she said about who influenced his music the most instead of the actual music. Focus on the stories about Prince in the studio. Someone telling us that some picture she painted resulted in Crystal Ball is disrespectful to his legacy and the insanely creative talent that it took for Prince to create that masterpiece. No one pulled anything out of Prince. Prince’s music came from a very special place and no one can take one ounce of credit for that process. I like the Current and Andrea. They do good work. But, I hope they do better next time.

donnyenglish said:

The 2 threads on the podcasts make me hope that the next 6 podcasts and future documentaries do not make the mistake of facilitating the narrative about how much influence associates had on his music. That debate always leads to a hornets nest. If they want to have a separate series on Prince’s influences then do that separately but it better start with people like Andre, Morris, Sheila, Larry G, Maceo and Sonny in addition to the Revolution because Prince would tell you those people were extremely influential. : I fault the Current for facilitating this by not having the podcasts focus solely on Prince’s majestic art. These podcasts have been a he said/she said about who influenced his music the most instead of the actual music. Focus on the stories about Prince in the studio. Someone telling us that some picture she painted resulted in Crystal Ball is disrespectful to his legacy and the insanely creative talent that it took for Prince to create that masterpiece. No one pulled anything out of Prince. Prince’s music came from a very special place and no one can take one ounce of credit for that process. I like the Current and Andrea. They do good work. But, I hope they do better next time.

.

The podcasts do exactly what you say. They are excellent, as far as I'm concerned. That some people get their panties in a twist whenever Wendy & Lisa (especially Wendy) mention they were in the same room as Prince or were allowed to play something on a song is not a fault of the podcasts. It is simply focussing on Prince's art and how the albums came to be in the shape that they are.

Hopefully every thread related to this podcast isn't derailed by associate arguments, but knowing the org, they will be It's like some of y'all don't even care about the snippets of previously unheard vault songs because the drama is more important.

donnyenglish said:

The 2 threads on the podcasts make me hope that the next 6 podcasts and future documentaries do not make the mistake of facilitating the narrative about how much influence associates had on his music. That debate always leads to a hornets nest. If they want to have a separate series on Prince’s influences then do that separately but it better start with people like Andre, Morris, Sheila, Larry G, Maceo and Sonny in addition to the Revolution because Prince would tell you those people were extremely influential. : I fault the Current for facilitating this by not having the podcasts focus solely on Prince’s majestic art. These podcasts have been a he said/she said about who influenced his music the most instead of the actual music. Focus on the stories about Prince in the studio. Someone telling us that some picture she painted resulted in Crystal Ball is disrespectful to his legacy and the insanely creative talent that it took for Prince to create that masterpiece. No one pulled anything out of Prince. Prince’s music came from a very special place and no one can take one ounce of credit for that process. I like the Current and Andrea. They do good work. But, I hope they do better next time.

Come on!!!! WHO in this episode stated that Prince wrote the song Crystal Ball SOLELY based on Susannah's wall art in the Galpin home??!! NO ONE stated those words. This is YOUR interpretation of what was discussed during the episode. And THIS is exactly the problem. YOU as a fan, based upon your OWN interests in Prince's various associates (name which you've posted above) are CREATING your own narrative and/or meaning of the statements in this episode. PRINCE is actually the person who included Susannah's wall art in HIS song, as well as, referencing their intimate moments together.

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Question: Were Sheila, Andre, Larry G, Maceo and/or Sonny involved in the songs/moments discussed during this episode, or even this time period?? Yes, Sheila was working for Prince during this time, however, she was on tour with her band for Lionel Ritchie from March-December 1986. So, even SHE was not around much during these months which were specifically discussed during this episode. I'm sure that Sheila will be included on subsequent episodes for this series, as she was part of the touring band.

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Also, if they end up doing a Dirty Mind, Gold, Emancipation and/or Musicology podcast series the associates you mentioned will surely be included in order to get more detail of Prince's work during those periods of recording. However, with the exception of Sheila NONE of them were present during this period.