They never JUST say they were in the same room with Prince or allowed to play something on a song. You know that is not what people are reacting to. If only that is all they said.

mediumdry said:

donnyenglish said:

The 2 threads on the podcasts make me hope that the next 6 podcasts and future documentaries do not make the mistake of facilitating the narrative about how much influence associates had on his music. That debate always leads to a hornets nest. If they want to have a separate series on Prince’s influences then do that separately but it better start with people like Andre, Morris, Sheila, Larry G, Maceo and Sonny in addition to the Revolution because Prince would tell you those people were extremely influential. : I fault the Current for facilitating this by not having the podcasts focus solely on Prince’s majestic art. These podcasts have been a he said/she said about who influenced his music the most instead of the actual music. Focus on the stories about Prince in the studio. Someone telling us that some picture she painted resulted in Crystal Ball is disrespectful to his legacy and the insanely creative talent that it took for Prince to create that masterpiece. No one pulled anything out of Prince. Prince’s music came from a very special place and no one can take one ounce of credit for that process. I like the Current and Andrea. They do good work. But, I hope they do better next time.

.

The podcasts do exactly what you say. They are excellent, as far as I'm concerned. That some people get their panties in a twist whenever Wendy & Lisa (especially Wendy) mention they were in the same room as Prince or were allowed to play something on a song is not a fault of the podcasts. It is simply focussing on Prince's art and how the albums came to be in the shape that they are.

Shannon319 said:

They never JUST say they were in the same room with Prince or allowed to play something on a song. You know that is not what people are reacting to. If only that is all they said.

mediumdry said:

.

The podcasts do exactly what you say. They are excellent, as far as I'm concerned. That some people get their panties in a twist whenever Wendy & Lisa (especially Wendy) mention they were in the same room as Prince or were allowed to play something on a song is not a fault of the podcasts. It is simply focussing on Prince's art and how the albums came to be in the shape that they are.

Because they weren't JUST in the same room with Prince everytime he was working on a song. Even PRINCE himself has stated this on mulitiple occasions - including during his first P&M show in 2016. Not sure what is so hard to understand about this. Even in the 1985 RS interview with Prince (one of his most revealing) he throws a tape to his Father of music that Wendy & Lisa had recorded and asks him to listen to it. Go look it up. It's in print, and his statements are quoted.

*

I think those who refuse to acknowledge that, while Prince was incredibly talented and technically could do it all himself, he also chose not to go it alone at certain times, and allowed other influences to help him create his music.

mbdtyler said:

Hopefully every thread related to this podcast isn't derailed by associate arguments, but knowing the org, they will be It's like some of y'all don't even care about the snippets of previously unheard vault songs because the drama is more important.

I think there's been quite a bit of discussion on the unreleased/unheard vault songs too. However, the critical and derrogatory comments about the associates are just par for the course and inevitable. Unfortunate, but expected.

My point is simple. This is not a competition between Prince and his former associates, but it has become that. This is not a competition between his associates against each other, but it has become that. Edit that nonsense out of it. Because if we are going to focus on influences then we might as well have given that little red corvette lady (Mi-Ling) an episode for the 1999 series.That would be nonsense.

:

Focus on his work and stories associates have about him rather than their contribution to his art to avoid this slippery slope that we are on. I have watched a few David Bowie documentaries and they did a good job with that. I pray that the big Netflix documentary does not go down this path.

I wasn't addressing you. I don't care if you react to my comment but at least don't miss my point. This person is putting down everyone with any gripe at all by saying that they are JUST mad because W and L claim they were in the room and playing on his songs here and there. That is obviously not all W and L (and their buddy Susan) claim as you just said. The dispute is more nuanced than that. Its not that anybody thinks they didn't contribute...it's the degree and ambiguity of their contributions that people are arguing about. Hyperbole either direction is not helpful here.

violetcrush said:

Shannon319 said:

They never JUST say they were in the same room with Prince or allowed to play something on a song. You know that is not what people are reacting to. If only that is all they said.

Because they weren't JUST in the same room with Prince everytime he was working on a song. Even PRINCE himself has stated this on mulitiple occasions - including during his first P&M show in 2016. Not sure what is so hard to understand about this. Even in the 1985 RS interview with Prince (one of his most revealing) he throws a tape to his Father of music that Wendy & Lisa had recorded and asks him to listen to it. Go look it up. It's in print, and his statements are quoted.

*

I think those who refuse to acknowledge that, while Prince was incredibly talented and technically could do it all himself, he also chose not to go it alone at certain times, and allowed other influences to help him create his music.

David Bowie was a great artist but much less musical than Prince was.

donnyenglish said:

My point is simple. This is not a competition between Prince and his former associates, but it has become that. This is not a competition between his associates against each other, but it has become that. Edit that nonsense out of it. Because if we are going to focus on influences then we might as well have given that little red corvette lady (Mi-Ling) an episode for the 1999 series.That would be nonsense.

:

Focus on his work and stories associates have about him rather than their contribution to his art to avoid this slippery slope that we are on. I have watched a few David Bowie documentaries and they did a good job with that. I pray that the big Netflix documentary does not go down this path.

donnyenglish said:

My point is simple. This is not a competition between Prince and his former associates, but it has become that. This is not a competition between his associates against each other, but it has become that. Edit that nonsense out of it. Because if we are going to focus on influences then we might as well have given that little red corvette lady (Mi-Ling) an episode for the 1999 series.That would be nonsense.

:

Focus on his work and stories associates have about him rather than their contribution to his art to avoid this slippery slope that we are on. I have watched a few David Bowie documentaries and they did a good job with that. I pray that the big Netflix documentary does not go down this path.

But AGAIN, you are completely missing the point. They ARE focusing on his work when they are speaking to his band associates, and even Susannah, who was ALSO an associate, as well as, his fiance. Susannah sang backround on MANY songs.

*

It is mainly the fans who are making it a competition between former associates based upon their own preferences for various associates. Yes, there's been some bickering around some of the claims that Sheila E has made and also her seeming to want more of the spotlight with regard to Prince/s music. However, all of that is minimal compared to the fans' opinions.

*

You are a bit contradictory with this statement above, because in your post a few comments back you were listing specific associates whom you thought should be discussing Prince's music. So, which is it then?? You can't have it one way with particular associates that YOU think should speak about their time making music with Prince, and another way with those whom you - for whatever reason - think should not be permitted to speak about their time making music with Prince.

*

Oh, and Mi-Ling....NOT a former Prince associate, nor did she ever work, record, or live with Prince. She was also never engaged to Prince. This is you comparing watermelons to kumquats. Makes no sense at all.

Shannon319 said:

I wasn't addressing you. I don't care if you react to my comment but at least don't miss my point. This person is putting down everyone with any gripe at all by saying that they are JUST mad because W and L claim they were in the room and playing on his songs here and there. That is obviously not all W and L (and their buddy Susan) claim as you just said. The dispute is more nuanced than that. Its not that anybody thinks they didn't contribute...it's the degree and ambiguity of their contributions that people are arguing about. Hyperbole either direction is not helpful here.

violetcrush said:

Because they weren't JUST in the same room with Prince everytime he was working on a song. Even PRINCE himself has stated this on mulitiple occasions - including during his first P&M show in 2016. Not sure what is so hard to understand about this. Even in the 1985 RS interview with Prince (one of his most revealing) he throws a tape to his Father of music that Wendy & Lisa had recorded and asks him to listen to it. Go look it up. It's in print, and his statements are quoted.

*

I think those who refuse to acknowledge that, while Prince was incredibly talented and technically could do it all himself, he also chose not to go it alone at certain times, and allowed other influences to help him create his music.

Right, but here's the thing. THEY (meaning W & L) were there. Lisa for 5 years and Wendy for 3 years. Why are WE entitled to make our own assumptions and/or interpretations of their statements?? You see how ridiculous that is, right?? Especially as there are so many indications from PRINCE himself that they were a big part of his sound during this time.

*

Even 9-10 years later Prince was recognizing both Wendy and Lisa for their contributions and what they meant to him and his music. We have his 1995 song "In This Bed I Scream" which he dedicated to Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah in the liner notes. We also have him on video at the 1995 AMAs accepting his Merit award and thanking Wendy, Susannah and Lisa FIRST in the long list of people who he stated attributed/contributed to his success.

*

So, again....just pointless for random fans, who never knew Prince personally, never worked with him, and were not present during the time period covered in this podcast to make their own claims as to how much or little Wendy & Lisa contributed to his music. Why should we listen to these random fans?? They.were. not.there.

Most of people are not disputing their "facts"...only their intentionally broad vague statements....calling his songs "sketches" that he dropped off for them to finish could mean a lot of things...(did they finish the chorus or verse for him? did he just sing with a piano accompanying him and they did everything else or did he finish a fair bit of the accompaniment and they added more touches? how much of the sketch was finished? which songs were sketches...all of the Dream Factory or some?)...that's what we are talking about.

Also, their statements about what he knew or didn't know about music and culture...are not completely logical considering his own history and references in his own songs.

As for the "you weren't there" argument, then maybe we should get rid of investigative reporters and private detectives who ask numerous sources the facts to solve crimes or figure out how things went down? It's called critical thinking.

Wendy once said when she was pissed that she and Lisa wrote Purple Rain. She has since clarified that they helped work on the song. But she is not above reproach or criticism because she was there. We just want specifics and more than one source...because lying or exagerrating is in some folks' best interest. Sheila still claims she wrote Glamorous Life and most of the proof and others' accounts say otherwise. Recently, Wendy accidentally claimed that "America" was on the Parade album (in her sirius radio playlist thing). Just because she was there, it doesn't mean she is always right.

violetcrush said:

Shannon319 said:

I wasn't addressing you. I don't care if you react to my comment but at least don't miss my point. This person is putting down everyone with any gripe at all by saying that they are JUST mad because W and L claim they were in the room and playing on his songs here and there. That is obviously not all W and L (and their buddy Susan) claim as you just said. The dispute is more nuanced than that. Its not that anybody thinks they didn't contribute...it's the degree and ambiguity of their contributions that people are arguing about. Hyperbole either direction is not helpful here.

Right, but here's the thing. THEY (meaning W & L) were there. Lisa for 5 years and Wendy for 3 years. Why are WE entitled to make our own assumptions and/or interpretations of their statements?? You see how ridiculous that is, right?? Especially as there are so many indications from PRINCE himself that they were a big part of his sound during this time.

*

Even 9-10 years later Prince was recognizing both Wendy and Lisa for their contributions and what they meant to him and his music. We have his 1995 song "In This Bed I Scream" which he dedicated to Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah in the liner notes. We also have him on video at the 1995 AMAs accepting his Merit award and thanking Wendy, Susannah and Lisa FIRST in the long list of people who he stated attributed/contributed to his success.

*

So, again....just pointless for random fans, who never knew Prince personally, never worked with him, and were not present during the time period covered in this podcast to make their own claims as to how much or little Wendy & Lisa contributed to his music. Why should we listen to these random fans?? They.were. not.there.

[Edited 9/5/20 14:28pm]

Shannon319 said:

Most of people are not disputing their "facts"...only their intentionally broad vague statements....calling his songs "sketches" that he dropped off for them to finish could mean a lot of things...(did they finish the chorus or verse for him? did he just sing with a piano accompanying him and they did everything else or did he finish a fair bit of the accompaniment and they added more touches? how much of the sketch was finished? which songs were sketches...all of the Dream Factory or some?)...that's what we are talking about.

Also, their statements about what he knew or didn't know about music and culture...are not completely logical considering his own history and references in his own songs.

As for the "you weren't there" argument, then maybe we should get rid of investigative reporters and private detectives who ask numerous sources the facts to solve crimes or figure out how things went down? It's called critical thinking.

Wendy once said when she was pissed that she and Lisa wrote Purple Rain. She has since clarified that they helped work on the song. But she is not above reproach or criticism because she was there. We just want specifics and more than one source...because lying or exagerrating is in some folks' best interest. Sheila still claims she wrote Glamorous Life and most of the proof and others' accounts say otherwise. Recently, Wendy accidentally claimed that "America" was on the Parade album (in her sirius radio playlist thing). Just because she was there, it doesn't mean she is always right.

[Edited 9/5/20 14:28pm]

he did that with a few people... he would send a tape and ask someone to put something on it... sometimes he used it sometimes he did not... sometimes their input was use on some other song.

he sometimes got lyrics and made a song... sometimes he traded something for a song.... sometimes he lifted an element from someone... so what?

Lyrics? Some expression some dude says in private conversation or the title shockadelica is not stealing lyrics. Lyrics were usually given credit (the lady who wrote Somebody's somebody or soul sanctuary got credit for lyrics..the M. Butterfly guy got credit for Solo) and lyrics and vocal melody were almost always his domain. Wendy and Lisa were mostly helping with arrangement and production.

So what? It matters. These folks need to be specific and back up their claims with proof because it has become such a slippery slope. Sheila E does not have a right to claim Glamorous Life entirely for herself just because Prince should have given more credit to Jesse Johnson for Jungle Love. Prince is dead now and can't defend himself. Therefore, the standards for truth matter even more now.

The dude is not even in the Songwriter's Hall of Fame. He is a songwriter. What exactly he did is important if he ever to be included in that group.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Shannon319 said:

Most of people are not disputing their "facts"...only their intentionally broad vague statements....calling his songs "sketches" that he dropped off for them to finish could mean a lot of things...(did they finish the chorus or verse for him? did he just sing with a piano accompanying him and they did everything else or did he finish a fair bit of the accompaniment and they added more touches? how much of the sketch was finished? which songs were sketches...all of the Dream Factory or some?)...that's what we are talking about.

Also, their statements about what he knew or didn't know about music and culture...are not completely logical considering his own history and references in his own songs.

As for the "you weren't there" argument, then maybe we should get rid of investigative reporters and private detectives who ask numerous sources the facts to solve crimes or figure out how things went down? It's called critical thinking.

Wendy once said when she was pissed that she and Lisa wrote Purple Rain. She has since clarified that they helped work on the song. But she is not above reproach or criticism because she was there. We just want specifics and more than one source...because lying or exagerrating is in some folks' best interest. Sheila still claims she wrote Glamorous Life and most of the proof and others' accounts say otherwise. Recently, Wendy accidentally claimed that "America" was on the Parade album (in her sirius radio playlist thing). Just because she was there, it doesn't mean she is always right.

[Edited 9/5/20 14:28pm]

he did that with a few people... he would send a tape and ask someone to put something on it... sometimes he used it sometimes he did not... sometimes their input was use on some other song.

he sometimes got lyrics and made a song... sometimes he traded something for a song.... sometimes he lifted an element from someone... so what?

[Edited 9/5/20 14:51pm]

[Edited 9/5/20 14:53pm]

Shannon319 said:

Lyrics? Some expression some dude says in private conversation or the title shockadelica is not stealing lyrics. Lyrics were usually given credit. and lyrics and vocal melody were almost always his domain. Wendy and Lisa were mostly helping with arrangement and production.

So what? It matters. These folks need to be specific and back up their claims with proof because it has become such a slippery slope. Sheila E does not have a right to claim Glamorous Life entirely for herself just because Prince should have given more credit to Jesse Johnson for Jungle Love. Prince is dead now and can't defend himself. Therefore, the standards for truth matter even more now.

The dude is not even in the Songwriter's Hall of Fame. He is a songwriter. What exactly he did is important if he ever wants to be included in that group.

Yeah he got lyrics or musical elements for several songs from others.... so what?

I am not sure if it was stealing or not. But YES he would somtines take credit by some means for a song.

yeah so what..so what? I do not know how much of any of TGL shelia wrote vs how much prince wrote... but she was given credit on the album cover.

And we know he got some elements for songs from others. Such as: "Do Me Baby", "Partyup", "My Love is Forever", and "When Doves Cry"

Oh and on "Baby" and "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad?" too!

I know most of his history. I am not new to this shit. What did he steal from Why you wanna treat me so bad and Baby? Dez claims the drum beat on When Doves Cry but claims P probably didn't realize he was taking it since it popped up on Prince's song after Prince saw Dez's band live (he said this after P's death...which is kind of suspicious).

It still stands that since Prince is dead, his past ambiguity with credits doesn't let others off the hook now. The truth is important. Also, why is it when Prince gives credit to others (even with it is disputed that they even deserve it), you automatically believe that those folks deserved the credit. But when others claim they deserve more credit, you guys automatically believe them. He recorded Glamorous Life with Jill Jones months before Sheila laid down her vocals or percussion parts. Jill Jones backs this up. The engineer said it was his. The studio log backs it up.

Prince also said Morris Day wrote all the Time songs and the band played on the album originally, and the movie Purple Rain has Wendy and Lisa writing Purple Rain. We all know that ain't true. The truth is important. The mythology needs to go.

Sidenote... Apollonia claims she co-wrote Glamorous LIfe too. By the time, these people get done with reaching for their piece of pie, there won't be much of prince left.

What lyrics did he steal> be specific.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Shannon319 said:

Lyrics? Some expression some dude says in private conversation or the title shockadelica is not stealing lyrics. Lyrics were usually given credit. and lyrics and vocal melody were almost always his domain. Wendy and Lisa were mostly helping with arrangement and production.

So what? It matters. These folks need to be specific and back up their claims with proof because it has become such a slippery slope. Sheila E does not have a right to claim Glamorous Life entirely for herself just because Prince should have given more credit to Jesse Johnson for Jungle Love. Prince is dead now and can't defend himself. Therefore, the standards for truth matter even more now.

The dude is not even in the Songwriter's Hall of Fame. He is a songwriter. What exactly he did is important if he ever wants to be included in that group.

Yeah he got lyrics or musical elements for several songs from others.... so what?

I am not sure if it was stealing or not. But YES he would somtines take credit by some means for a song.

yeah so what..so what? I do not know how much of any of TGL shelia wrote vs how much prince wrote... but she was given credit on the album cover.

And we know he got some elements for songs from others. Such as: "Do Me Baby", "Partyup", "My Love is Forever", and "When Doves Cry"

Oh and on "Baby" and "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad?" too!

[Edited 9/5/20 15:22pm]

[Edited 9/5/20 15:26pm]

gotta tbh the only sympathy i have towards the bitching is hearing sheila talk about how she "co wrote" all the stuff on glam life and 1600 and i'm like.... yeah ok.

She hasn't written anything worth a damn since. Good drummer, can carry a tune, can dance. NOT A SONGWRITER.

lustmealways said:

gotta tbh the only sympathy i have towards the bitching is hearing sheila talk about how she "co wrote" all the stuff on glam life and 1600 and i'm like.... yeah ok.

Shannon319 said:

I know most of his history. I am not new to this shit. What did he steal from Why you wanna treat me so bad and Baby? Dez claims the drum beat on When Doves Cry but claims P probably didn't realize he was taking it since it popped up on Prince's song after Prince saw Dez's band live (he said this after P's death...which is kind of suspicious).

It still stands that since Prince is dead, his past ambiguity with credits doesn't let others off the hook now. The truth is important. Also, why is it when Prince gives credit to others (even with it is disputed that they even deserve it), you automatically believe that those folks deserved the credit. But when others claim they deserve more credit, you guys automatically believe them. He recorded Glamorous Life with Jill Jones months before Sheila laid down her vocals or percussion parts. Jill Jones backs this up. The engineer said it was his. The studio log backs it up.

Prince also said Morris Day wrote all the Time songs and the band played on the album originally, and the movie Purple Rain has Wendy and Lisa writing Purple Rain. We all know that ain't true. The truth is important. The mythology needs to go.

Sidenote... Apollonia claims she co-wrote Glamorous LIfe too. By the time, these people get done with reaching for their piece of pie, there won't be much of prince left.

What lyrics did he steal> be specific.

Did I say Steal? I am pretty sure I did not. By first hand accounts Prince knew he took the drums from "She Loves to Video" and he talked to him about it...(see the Compete Purple Rain Sessions book)

Andre sang on "Why You Wanna...." (Prince said this in the 85 rolling stone interview)


Patrice Rushen worked on some programming the strings on "Baby"

"Do Me Baby" was a something Andre was working on Prince took it (Andre said something like he had not done much with it so it was okay)

"Partyup" was something Morris had been working on and he gave it to Prince for the lead singer on the Time...


"My Love is Forever" had lyrics by Chris Moon... Prince gave Moon "Make it Through the Storm" for "forever"

I do not automatically believe anything. I am saying we know of cases where it happened....and we knew BEFORE he passed... It happens. It happens more when in the midst of the creative process.

And again did I say steal? But he did lift lyrics: for "America" and the opening lyric for "Insatiable" is from "Turn Off the Lights" by Teddy Pendergrass.


basic stuff here...

lustmealways said:

gotta tbh the only sympathy i have towards the bitching is hearing sheila talk about how she "co wrote" all the stuff on glam life and 1600 and i'm like.... yeah ok.

in her mind maybe she really thinks she did? maybe she did? Maybe she gave some ideas and maybe he used a few but not all of them... but it is clear his version is lyrically the same as hers... was she talking about drumming?

Who knows... it's a great song and she nailed it!

He wrote it. She added percussion and her vocals off his guide. She didn't write it anymore than Prince wrote Stand Back by Stevie Nickie (he added a keyboard line) and Like A Prayer (he added a guitar solo briefly to the beginning.)

Prince also covered live Radiohead's Creep (changing up the lyrics and playing a killer solo), it doesn't mean he wrote the song.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

lustmealways said:

gotta tbh the only sympathy i have towards the bitching is hearing sheila talk about how she "co wrote" all the stuff on glam life and 1600 and i'm like.... yeah ok.

in her mind maybe she really thinks she did? maybe she did? Maybe she gave some ideas and maybe he used a few but not all of them... but it is clear his version is lyrically the same as hers... was she talking about drumming?

Who knows... it's a great song and she nailed it!

there is difference between homage and flat out lifting lyrics from his associates. He also quotes the song Get it on with the lyrics "you're filthy cute and baby you know it."

There is a difference between being a musician who lived in the world and was influenced by pop culture and those around him and someone who was MADE by others because he didn't have his own musical identity, ideas, or personality.

Andre singing on Why you wanna treat me so bad...big deal.

Morris wrote a groove and I honestly don't think it was anything more than that. did he ever play any other instruments other than drums?

Patrice doing strings ... cool but still most of that song is Prince.

Chris Moon has talked about the lyrics thing. Prince wasn't writing much lyrics as a teenager. So I don't sweat that.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Shannon319 said:

I know most of his history. I am not new to this shit. What did he steal from Why you wanna treat me so bad and Baby? Dez claims the drum beat on When Doves Cry but claims P probably didn't realize he was taking it since it popped up on Prince's song after Prince saw Dez's band live (he said this after P's death...which is kind of suspicious).

It still stands that since Prince is dead, his past ambiguity with credits doesn't let others off the hook now. The truth is important. Also, why is it when Prince gives credit to others (even with it is disputed that they even deserve it), you automatically believe that those folks deserved the credit. But when others claim they deserve more credit, you guys automatically believe them. He recorded Glamorous Life with Jill Jones months before Sheila laid down her vocals or percussion parts. Jill Jones backs this up. The engineer said it was his. The studio log backs it up.

Prince also said Morris Day wrote all the Time songs and the band played on the album originally, and the movie Purple Rain has Wendy and Lisa writing Purple Rain. We all know that ain't true. The truth is important. The mythology needs to go.

Sidenote... Apollonia claims she co-wrote Glamorous LIfe too. By the time, these people get done with reaching for their piece of pie, there won't be much of prince left.

What lyrics did he steal> be specific.

Did I say Steal? I am pretty sure I did not. By first hand accounts Prince knew he took the drums from "She Loves to Video" and he talked to him about it...(see the Compete Purple Rain Sessions book)

Andre sang on "Why You Wanna...." (Prince said this in the 85 rolling stone interview)


Patrice Rushen worked on some programming the strings on "Baby"

"Do Me Baby" was a something Andre was working on Prince took it (Andre said something like he had not done much with it so it was okay)

"Partyup" was something Morris had been working on and he gave it to Prince for the lead singer on the Time...


"My Love is Forever" had lyrics by Chris Moon... Prince gave Moon "Make it Through the Storm" for "forever"

I do not automatically believe anything. I am saying we know of cases where it happened....and we knew BEFORE he passed... It happens. It happens more when in the midst of the creative process.

And again did I say steal? But he did lift lyrics: for "America" and the opening lyric for "Insatiable" is from "Turn Off the Lights" by Teddy Pendergrass.


basic stuff here...

[Edited 9/5/20 16:17pm]

RighteousOne said:

Shannon319 said:

He wrote it. She added percussion and her vocals off his guide. She didn't write it anymore than Prince wrote Stand Back by Stevie Nickie (he added a keyboard line) and Like A Prayer (he added a guitar solo briefly to the beginning.)

Prince also covered live Radiohead's Creep (changing up the lyrics and playing a killer solo), it doesn't mean he wrote the song.

and he got credit for stand Back (50%) and some part of "Like a Prayer" too.

Did he release "Creep"? Doing a cover ONCE is not really a good example... maybe look at "One of Us" or "Everyday Is A Winding Road" which he changed some of the words too... He also removed the first part from "A Case of You" when he covered it but given the part ommited it make sense.

but the point is you do not know... I do not know...

What about "Cool"? I know he was doing that song later on... and he seemed to take credit for it as he did. Again so what?

udo said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

rap said: What did you say about the DVD from the 1999 Superdeluxe? That one was hella bad.

.

Because it was video instead of film?

.

This failure has lead to many disasters, many moments that will not be showed in their finest glory.

.

.

.

.

[Edited 9/5/20 5:57am]

Great, another missed opportunity!

He never claimed credit for changing the lyrics of his covers. His version of A Case of U is still credited to Joni. Stevie gave him credit for Stand Back not just because of the keyboard line but also because when she wrote it, it was inspired by him in first place. She was being nice.

Prince wrote the music for COOL. Dez wrote the lyrics. Neither Dez nor Prince are given credit for Cool on the liner notes for the Time album. I am not sure about the royalties though. I have heard Prince sing it live but I don't think I have ever heard him say "I wrote this song." He just sings it. He sings covers too and doesn't say so and so wrote this.

I am more interested in hearing from engineers and studio musicians and from studio logs than those with goals for fame and glory...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Shannon319 said:

He wrote it. She added percussion and her vocals off his guide. She didn't write it anymore than Prince wrote Stand Back by Stevie Nickie (he added a keyboard line) and Like A Prayer (he added a guitar solo briefly to the beginning.)

Prince also covered live Radiohead's Creep (changing up the lyrics and playing a killer solo), it doesn't mean he wrote the song.

and he got credit for stand Back (50%) and some part of "Like a Prayer" too.

Did he release "Creep"? Doing a cover ONCE is not really a good example... maybe look at "One of Us" or "Everyday Is A Winding Road" which he changed some of the words too... He also removed the first part from "A Case of You" when he covered it but given the part ommited it make sense.

but the point is you do not know... I do not know...

What about "Cool"? I know he was doing that song later on... and he seemed to take credit for it as he did. Again so what?

[Edited 9/5/20 16:34pm]

[Edited 9/5/20 16:37pm]

Shannon319 said:

He never claimed credit for changing the lyrics of his covers. His version of A Case of U is still credited to Joni. Stevie gave him credit for Stand Back not just because of the keyboard line but also because when she wrote it, it was inspired by him in first place. She was being nice.

Neither Dez nor Prince are given credit for Cool on the liner notes for the Time album. I am not sure about the royalties though. I have heard Prince sing it live but I don't think I have ever heard him say "I wrote this song." He just sings it.

okay I am done. you keep adding in things I did not say or suggest. The liner notes on many of thoes side groups are bogus. Dez wrote the lyrics for Cool Prince did the music (as far as we know)... and I did not say he said he wrote it...it was more of a vibe I got... like how on the muppets tonight he seemed to suggest he came up with the idea for "starfish and coffee."

Eric's bias for the Melvoins and lisa is so apparent here. The songs on the finished album have Miko, himself, Atlanta Bliss, and Sheila all playing on them. And many of the songs were recorded after the Revolution broke up. Look up Prince vault for the dates.

Hamad said:

RighteousOne said:

Yup, glad to hear from Eric that he kept a journal. We need to hear more from this master. As for Sheila, it’s not a hidden agenda or vibe. She wasn’t around. She came later, with the tour.

Did she though? And all those recordings she made for Parade, the Flesh sessions as well as the SOTT sessions, what about those?

[Edited 9/5/20 16:48pm]

the muppet's thing is fictional on purpose and a bit of a joke. No one thinks he just came up with the words for a Muppets show sketch that came out 10 years after he released the song. He didn't travel back in time to release the song.

What do you mean "as far as we know" next to Prince writing the music to Cool? Please tell me I am misinterpreting that.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Shannon319 said:

He never claimed credit for changing the lyrics of his covers. His version of A Case of U is still credited to Joni. Stevie gave him credit for Stand Back not just because of the keyboard line but also because when she wrote it, it was inspired by him in first place. She was being nice.

Neither Dez nor Prince are given credit for Cool on the liner notes for the Time album. I am not sure about the royalties though. I have heard Prince sing it live but I don't think I have ever heard him say "I wrote this song." He just sings it.

okay I am done. you keep adding in things I did not say or suggest. The liner notes on many of thoes side groups are bogus. Dez wrote the lyrics for Cool Prince did the music (as far as we know)... and I did not say he said he wrote it...it was more of a vibe I got... like how on the muppets tonight he seemed to suggest he came up with the idea for "starfish and coffee."

[Edited 9/5/20 16:50pm]

Shannon319 said:

Most of people are not disputing their "facts"...only their intentionally broad vague statements....calling his songs "sketches" that he dropped off for them to finish could mean a lot of things...(did they finish the chorus or verse for him? did he just sing with a piano accompanying him and they did everything else or did he finish a fair bit of the accompaniment and they added more touches? how much of the sketch was finished? which songs were sketches...all of the Dream Factory or some?)...that's what we are talking about.

Also, their statements about what he knew or didn't know about music and culture...are not completely logical considering his own history and references in his own songs.

As for the "you weren't there" argument, then maybe we should get rid of investigative reporters and private detectives who ask numerous sources the facts to solve crimes or figure out how things went down? It's called critical thinking.

Wendy once said when she was pissed that she and Lisa wrote Purple Rain. She has since clarified that they helped work on the song. But she is not above reproach or criticism because she was there. We just want specifics and more than one source...because lying or exagerrating is in some folks' best interest. Sheila still claims she wrote Glamorous Life and most of the proof and others' accounts say otherwise. Recently, Wendy accidentally claimed that "America" was on the Parade album (in her sirius radio playlist thing). Just because she was there, it doesn't mean she is always right.

violetcrush said:

Right, but here's the thing. THEY (meaning W & L) were there. Lisa for 5 years and Wendy for 3 years. Why are WE entitled to make our own assumptions and/or interpretations of their statements?? You see how ridiculous that is, right?? Especially as there are so many indications from PRINCE himself that they were a big part of his sound during this time.

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Even 9-10 years later Prince was recognizing both Wendy and Lisa for their contributions and what they meant to him and his music. We have his 1995 song "In This Bed I Scream" which he dedicated to Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah in the liner notes. We also have him on video at the 1995 AMAs accepting his Merit award and thanking Wendy, Susannah and Lisa FIRST in the long list of people who he stated attributed/contributed to his success.

*

So, again....just pointless for random fans, who never knew Prince personally, never worked with him, and were not present during the time period covered in this podcast to make their own claims as to how much or little Wendy & Lisa contributed to his music. Why should we listen to these random fans?? They.were. not.there.

[Edited 9/5/20 14:28pm]

Bold #1 : Have you listened to Prince's own statement at his first P&M show in 2016? He literally stated that he would give Wendy and Lisa "sketches" or "basic" ideas and let them go into the studio to see what they could come up with. Check out the show if you haven't yet listened to it.

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Bold #2: Does it really matter exactly how much of a song "sketch" was finished?? Do we really need that kind of specific detail on the vast amount of music they were working on at that time? Any idea or music of theirs that he incorporated into his "sketch" is them contributing. They've already given the example of Power Fantastic - Lisa's piano solo - and STILL fans doubt the scope of their involvement.

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Bold #3: Wendy Susannah and Lisa had an earlier start than Prince into the broader music scene, because their Fathers were big time players in LA. Wendy's Dad was great friends with Quincy Jones, and they were in the studio with them at young ages. Susannah stated (on one of her IG posts) that Wendy played Bass with Leon Russell when he would visit their house back in the 70's. So, I have no doubt that they would have introduced obscure music into Prince's realm, or at least given him more of the catalogue for a particular artist. During the '83 1st Ave rehearsal that's been floating around you can hear Wendy singing "oh my genitals, oh my genitals..." - the song Janitor by the Suburban Lawns and saying, "has anyone ever heard that song by Suburban Lawns?? Roy (asking Roy Bennett) you must have heard that song..." So, yes, I actually think it's very feasible that Wendy and/or Lisa would have introduced Prince to some musicians and/or certain records by musicians that he may not have heard before. Prince, in his '85 RS interview, even admitted he was not familiar with Bob Dylan's music until he heard Jimi Hendrix's cover of All Along The Watch Tower.

*

Bold #4: Comparing the history and stories of musicians who worked with Prince to investigating crimes?? A bit of a stretch, I think. No one is on trial here. It's not Cold Case or Unsolved Mysteries. Nobody's murdered anyone. They are just recounting their time with Prince. I don't think fans need to be "critical thinkers" when it comes to learning about various associates' experiences with Prince. That's taking it a bit too far.

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Bold #5: Wendy has stated she was misquoted by a journalist doing an interview. She has told that story in detail. She stated Prince called her and asked her about it whe that article was published. She stated she NEVER told the journalist that she "wrote" Purple Rain. She said she and the band helped to finish the music. She clearly re-stated that information on the PR 25th anniversary DVD where she and Lisa are interviewed about that time period. So, again, this was another case of random fans taking this ball and running with it, and not bothering to acknowledge that Wendy had stated she was misquoted.

violetcrush said:

donnyenglish said:

My point is simple. This is not a competition between Prince and his former associates, but it has become that. This is not a competition between his associates against each other, but it has become that. Edit that nonsense out of it. Because if we are going to focus on influences then we might as well have given that little red corvette lady (Mi-Ling) an episode for the 1999 series.That would be nonsense.

:

Focus on his work and stories associates have about him rather than their contribution to his art to avoid this slippery slope that we are on. I have watched a few David Bowie documentaries and they did a good job with that. I pray that the big Netflix documentary does not go down this path.

But AGAIN, you are completely missing the point. They ARE focusing on his work when they are speaking to his band associates, and even Susannah, who was ALSO an associate, as well as, his fiance. Susannah sang backround on MANY songs.

*

It is mainly the fans who are making it a competition between former associates based upon their own preferences for various associates. Yes, there's been some bickering around some of the claims that Sheila E has made and also her seeming to want more of the spotlight with regard to Prince/s music. However, all of that is minimal compared to the fans' opinions.

*

You are a bit contradictory with this statement above, because in your post a few comments back you were listing specific associates whom you thought should be discussing Prince's music. So, which is it then?? You can't have it one way with particular associates that YOU think should speak about their time making music with Prince, and another way with those whom you - for whatever reason - think should not be permitted to speak about their time making music with Prince.

*

Oh, and Mi-Ling....NOT a former Prince associate, nor did she ever work, record, or live with Prince. She was also never engaged to Prince. This is you comparing watermelons to kumquats. Makes no sense at all.

I am not being contradictory. My previous post said they should do a SEPARATE series on his influences so those associates can get it all out and say how they influenced his music so we can focus on his music in this series. I am also not missing the point. They have presented the podcasts in a way where associates are spending a large percentage of the podcast talking about their influence on his music rather than his music. Everyone has acknowledged that point. That was a mistake. Next time have them talk about his music rather than their influence on it. Period.

there is difference between homage and flat out lifting lyrics from his associates. He also quotes the song Get it on with the lyrics "you're filthy cute and baby you know it."