Revolution81 said:

JorisE73 said:

i have some wrong and valid sdescription is some noites from almost 20 years ago from a.m.p, a.b.m.p, Princefams, housequake and prince.org that mentions the lyrics beyond th 2 minute mark, guitar solos and the 'Coosmiiic Daaay' parts so there were definately people who had the full version.
(T, Neversin, THX17771 from a.m.p all had the full vrsion for sure, they described the pcorrect parts back then.)
there were allso some fakers who decribed things that don't exist in the song and even claimed the speed was wrong back then.

Interesting. I frequented those some places and various others over the years and never saw anybody describe anything past the two min mark anywhere.

The only person that i can say for sure had the full thing is the person who made the snippet, and that was none of the 3 you mentioned...at least one of them i know for certain did not have it

I have in my notes a back and forth between Neversin and THX17771 from, I think, a newsgroup that I guess must have been a.m.p becuase I never saw them on any other music sharing group I was on talking about Prince, with them sharing a line of the second part of the song beyond the 2 minute mark.
T once threatened to release it than some interjected with a 'don't do it' and he said he wouldn't, so i guess he to had the full version.
I'm just glad it;'s finally out for us peasants

And oh yeah, I did see those stickies but didn't check them out since I already heard Witness and thought that, along with ICNTPOYM demo were just tracks the estate were randomly floating. Didn't realize they were from SoTT Deluxe and since Cosmic Day was the only song I'd never heard before, clicked on that and thought it was the lead release.

I hope the thread and the org police will forgive me.

I've been rather preoccupied lately being sick. I'm losing weight at an alarming clip for some reason, visiting doctors to figure it out, barely able to walk or sleep due to arthritis pain in my hip and lower back along with intense sciatica, caring for my 9 year old son who's being forced back to school during a pandemic, dealing with his mom's concerns related to same, and barely hanging on to my job that I commute an hour each way and that cut our hours to 4 days a week while adding a more physical requirement to it that...well...creates a problem for me for the above reasons.

BartVanHemelen said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Was it the sticky? I swear I zone out all sticky threads in the sticky portion of the forum consistently, so I'm always 2-3 weeks later with this shit.

.

They're literally linked on the FRONTPAGE OF THIS SITE.

So I can see how Missing a Sticky might be an egregious offense Worthy of "The Great Shame" but the polite thing to do might be to just let it slide. So what I'm saying (or asking) here is maybe cut me (or ANYONE here for that matter) some slack for once.

Also shame on the spineless mods here for snipping people like me merely calling out rude posters in a fairly nice way while they let certain unnamed others post rude, negative bullshit with complete and utter impunity going on for decades now - I guess because they sometimes post some cool links (?)

I know moderating this place is a labor of love but god damn sometimes with this selective editing and placating a complete man child who hasn't had a single nice, constructive or postive thing to say to anyone here in 20 fucking years. Big mystery why there's no traffic here and newcomers are sent scattering to other places.

...

Anyway...

Ahem...

Also, not wild about this song but I dig the other 2 and look forward to the SoTTD release.

I think it would have had more of a home on the 3-disc album had that been released.

Milty2 said:

Vannormal said:

-

Strange I find this the best Prince video made by far (NC2U) !

This video is great art and deserves more attention.

I often look at it again.

He seemed so happy and full of what he would become.

Compare it with any post 1990 video...

In the NC2U video he IS and behaves like a normal human being (to me).

It's very original, and at least it shows images of him we've never seen before.

This is my humble opinion of course.

-

I too liked the NC2U video. It wasn't a flashy video but it showed Prince doing what we normally don't see - him doing his work other than being on a stage or on record. It was a glimpse behond the curtain. That footage has been in circulation already but maybe it was the Estate laying claim to it instead of it rambling around YT.

The problem is not necessarily the archive footage put to a different song, but for me the mismatch between the music heard and the footage. NC2U doesn't fit, whereas MM fits it like a glove. You can say it's subjective but you can't put an out and out ballad to video of choreographed dancing.

Se7en said:

I think it would have had more of a home on the 3-disc album had that been released.

Agree with this. It's kind of a "bridge" song that might have fit better into another album with a different style and sound and in a different context. LotusFlower comes to mind maybe. I get why people like it and it's certainly not terrible but it doesn't grab me by the boo boo.

It's a fine song. Could have done without the "trolololol's", sounds like P is trolling us from beyond the grave.

Sorry, tralalas

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's a fine song. Could have done without the "trolololol's", sounds like P is trolling us from beyond the grave.

Sorry, tralalas

I am not sure that is all that unique to this song... He made wird sounds in Wally and the horns in "Cocoa Boys" (I hope that stays in and was not replaced!)

"Large Room..." "La la la he he hee" too!

fortuneandserendipity said:

Milty2 said:

I too liked the NC2U video. It wasn't a flashy video but it showed Prince doing what we normally don't see - him doing his work other than being on a stage or on record. It was a glimpse behond the curtain. That footage has been in circulation already but maybe it was the Estate laying claim to it instead of it rambling around YT.

The problem is not necessarily the archive footage put to a different song, but for me the mismatch between the music heard and the footage. NC2U doesn't fit, whereas MM fits it like a glove. You can say it's subjective but you can't put an out and out ballad to video of choreographed dancing.

-

Never heard of contemporary art ?

A new and very contemporary approach to what has become common ?

New interpretations of the old and well known ?

How else would we get something new if we stick to the same rules ?

Art is freedom in it's utmost performance and public show.

There will always be those who are against a new apporach. It is their right though.

But...

That's how great new ideas are born, and mostly get received later on when it also starts to become habitual. And once it's receptive, it's again time for something new.

And then again, no one has to follow all this.

Everyone has the right to remain in their own consevative approach of things.

And I mean this in a positive way. Just don't ever try convince others of what is acceptable and what is not.

Prince for sure was as inventive and contemporary all his life, and he barely looked back.

I think he even would've liked this very much.

-

Didn't he hated to make video's if i remember correctly ?

-

Nobody had a problem with the 'la da da da da da da da's in Forever in my Life.

eyewishuheaven said:

Nobody had a problem with the 'la da da da da da da da's in Forever in my Life.

Or in Rebirth of the Flesh, or La, La, La, He, He, Hee, or the Oh Maladi/Melody Da Da in Wally.
I guess some people just throw in anything to validate for themselves the hate they have for songs.
All in all, some people like it and some don't as with anything. Some like rock songs others don't and in here always feel the need to belittle those who do like the rockier songs by claiming they are squares (or whatever 'trying to sound hip' term they use) or only became fans because of Purple Rain when they probably are the newbies who don;t understand that I'm Yours was on Prince's first album or Bambi was on his second. Who's the biggest square then, the listener or the creator?

[Edited 8/19/20 4:57am]

fortuneandserendipity said:

LoveGalore said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

The problem is not necessarily the archive footage put to a different song, but for me the mismatch between the music heard and the footage. NC2U doesn't fit, whereas MM fits it like a glove. You can say it's subjective but you can't put an out and out ballad to video of choreographed dancing.

It depends on the context of the work. In this case,the juxtaposition is meant more to draw your attention to the fact he's no longer here and nothing compares to him, framed by footage that was relevant to the timeframe the song was recorded.

That's what I was imagining, too, that it was a video homage to "Prince" in that historic context.

Vannormal said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

The problem is not necessarily the archive footage put to a different song, but for me the mismatch between the music heard and the footage. NC2U doesn't fit, whereas MM fits it like a glove. You can say it's subjective but you can't put an out and out ballad to video of choreographed dancing.

-

Never heard of contemporary art ?

A new and very contemporary approach to what has become common ?

New interpretations of the old and well known ?

How else would we get something new if we stick to the same rules ?

Art is freedom in it's utmost performance and public show.

There will always be those who are against a new apporach. It is their right though.

But...

That's how great new ideas are born, and mostly get received later on when it also starts to become habitual. And once it's receptive, it's again time for something new.

And then again, no one has to follow all this.

Everyone has the right to remain in their own consevative approach of things.

And I mean this in a positive way. Just don't ever try convince others of what is acceptable and what is not.

Prince for sure was as inventive and contemporary all his life, and he barely looked back.

I think he even would've liked this very much.

-

Didn't he hated to make video's if i remember correctly ?

-

Good answer to which I agree wholeheartedly.

eyewishuheaven said:

Nobody had a problem with the 'la da da da da da da da's in Forever in my Life.

Don't fuck with Forever, which is perfect as it is

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's a fine song. Could have done without the "trolololol's", sounds like P is trolling us from beyond the grave.

Sorry, tralalas

Don't speak of Prince(r.i.p.) in that way EVER!!!

-

Concerning the ''La La La La's'' ...

He always played around with 'childish' melodies.

It was a side of him he used to create contrasts,

mysteries, a female approach of things, colour,

positivity and so on.

Musically it fills in the enormous wide range

of melodic and sonical use in Prince's musical universe.

He did not only used this type of melody in his singing.

In his arrangements it is very often used as a playfull

addition to song structures and live performances.

-

I find it a bit strange that it get's so much fuzz here.

I could name you so many songs of his where he uses these

simple and light melodic arrangements.

It is also a part of what made him so unique, musically.

Prince was unlike anybody else capable of absorbing all sorts

of music.

-

Here's a list of songs that pop up in my mind right now,

where he uses these kind of melodies :

-

Be My Mirror

A Love Bizarre

The Glamorous Life

La La Laa, He He Hee

Forever In My Life

I Wish U Heaen

Around The World In A Day

La La La Means I Love You

Da, Da, Da

Rebith Of The Flesh

Play In The Sunshine

Gold

etc...

-

JorisE73 said:

eyewishuheaven said:

Nobody had a problem with the 'la da da da da da da da's in Forever in my Life.

Or in Rebirth of the Flesh, or La, La, La, He, He, Hee, or the Oh Maladi/Melody Da Da in Wally.
I guess some people just throw in anything to validate for themselves the hate they have for songs.

Oh, you're quite mistaken, I had a HUGE problem with that one and loathe that track. Not so much with Large Room With No Light. Sometimes it works and others not so much

JorisE73 said:

simonmillar said:

JorisE73 said:

I have in my notes a back and forth between Neversin and THX17771 from, I think, a newsgroup that I guess must have been a.m.p becuase I never saw them on any other music sharing group I was on talking about Prince, with them sharing a line of the second part of the song beyond the 2 minute mark.
T once threatened to release it than some interjected with a 'don't do it' and he said he wouldn't, so i guess he to had the full version.
I'm just glad it;'s finally out for us peasants

I recall at the time a number of people letting others speculate that they had a full length version of the song... but I am pretty certain no one had this. For sure the sample did not come a somebody with the full version - only the sample which was gradually released in different lengths up until the circa 2 mins complete sample.

I don;t know really and am glad it's finally out. I only know of 2 people that desribed the track correctly beyond the 2 minute sample back then, all the rest of the descriptions I heard back then were wrong.

simonmillar said:

Me to... But i also recall someone suggesting that the information about the song beyond the sample was based on information from Warner Chappell publishing whom had registered the song / lyrics for copyright. I’m no expert in this area so would not like to speculate...

I don;t think instrumentation is registered only title and maybe lyrics.
The description of the song also desrcibes teh guitar solo etc. but anyway, we finally have it and that's all that matters

I remember being in the line for the Lovesexy show,
and they were selling the program a few hours before we got in.

And so we got plenty of time to go through the pages and I read "Camille" as,
as you said, being a mask, a modesty,
a way to tell the fans "I've been through some serious shit lately"
without expressing it in the first person.

Keep in mind "Blue Monday" theories were still years ahead.
I don't think anyone got it how serious he was about it at the time,
that he was in fact trying to speak about a very serious depression,
the source of the epiphany that gave life to Lovesexy.

On the surface it seemed as an alibi to explain
the most positive, almost naive record he ever released.
(and at the same time, giving a hell of promotion to the growingly famous bootleg,
the smartest business move to cement himself a definitive legendary status,
in the footstepts of Dyland or Led Zep, through an alternative,
unofficial discography. Other bootlegs quickly emerged.
Too quickly and too numerous not to raise suspicions, in hindsight.
The Trojan Horse was galloping as soon as 1989.
Only when he realized the volume and extent
of his alternative universe did he backpedal and ask for his fair share.)

So, Camille in the Tour Book, an alias.
I could never connect the funny, quirky,
sensuous character singing "Shockadelica"
to this deflection strategy, to this "guy who got depressed, not me" stunt.
He could have use "Alexander Nevermind".
It was just another way to say "Prince".

Or maybe he was trying to hint at his depression originating
in the emasculation of the whole Crystal Ball/Dream Factory/Camille opus.
Maybe Camille got angry and bitter, for not forcing Camille to become a reality
when there was still time. Bitter for not having his genius recognized.

Maybe he started to have regrets about listening to Waronker and reduce SOTT
to a double album, once the highs of the Grandest Concert Of Them All were behind,
maybe he felt ripped off a Grammy he deserved more than Purple Rain.
Maybe, maybe if it had been a triple (and even more diverse) album,
the industry would have been forced to recognize the genius,
forced to let The Joshua Tree dry in the desert.

But show-business considerations aside, maybe he was disappointed at himself
for not fighting enough to impose his utopia, his sixties-like vision of frequent
releases, fast artistic transitions, bold creative ambitions.

He got reasoned by businessmen at a moment
where his creativity was firing on all cylinders, blues, funk, vaudeville,
introspection, guitar hero, Vegas crooning, the result of all the years of hard work
and dedication were there, undisputable, giving more fruits than he was able to pick.

And then you end up with just a double album. Think about it.
It's an impossible feat to get into Prince's head, but the smorgasbord
that is the forthcoming box doesn't even cover everything (the main absentees
residing on Crystal Ball, and then some more missing).
How many LP's again? Just two. Sure, not everything in the box
is Crystal material, but Columbia had the balls, so why not Warner?

No wonder the ultimate fan-made multi-gigabyte box
is called "A Year In The Life".
This is the year Skipper transitioned
from Superman to Dr. Manhattan
(oh well, maybe a funkier version).

I think we often project in Prince an ability to plan in advance,
first because there's a need to rationalize his moves and decisions,
and then because most of the time his instincts generate double meanings,
double entendres, several ways to interpretation that suggest us
"that must be it! That was what he had in mind!".

But as his complete bio continues to unfurl, thanks to guys like Duane Tudahl
pursuing and refining the immense work done by Per Nilsen, and other unsung heroes,
everyone collaborating at Uptown magazine, and the many discussions we have here,
we know now that most often than not, Prince was just going with the flow,
as many collaborators have stated.

What was certain today could become void the day after.

And because the definitive truth about his intent will never be known,
it gives us enormous freedom to reshape the story, each one to their own liking.
This is something he had understood a long time ago, and the reason
for all the cultivation of mystery and enigma. By letting us provide
the missing pieces, we can all come with alternative endings.

Is "Erotic City" the first Camille song?
Probably. It's quirky. It has a sped up and slowed down voices.
It's sexy. It's funny, in a smart way. It's ambiguous.
But then again, maybe it isn't at all.

And this ongoing doubt is a much better legacy than something engraved in stone.
The fantasy and daydreaming live on. We're still excited about it.
Probably as he intented us to be.

But this is, again and sure enough,
subject to controversy.

One word : brilliant! thank you to share with us what is in your mind without any filter

So I love "Cosmic Day" and have been listening to it a lot the past few weeks. What really strikes me about this track is that, to me at least, it seems like there are several separate, potential endings. Maybe Prince never released it because he never really decided quite how he wanted to arrange or end it?

The song could easily naturally fade-out beginning at 2:53/2:54, or end at 3:42/3:43 before the guitar re-launches again, end at 4:17 before the "Look outside the window..." begins, it could also end at 4:39 after the whispered "Cosmic Day" echoes to fade-out. Also, the final "chorus" at the very end sounds different from the other vocals -- less distortion to it. Sticks out to my ears as not totally belonging with everything else.

As much as I do love this track and all the different places he goes musically, it still sounds unfinished is the sense that here are a bunch of different parts, and some of them sound like "Option 1/Option 2" rather than something intended to be heard in series as one.

I think 2:53/2:54 for sure would have been the base edit for a 7" and/or radio cut, and anything after that would have been present in one or more full-length LP cuts or extended/alternate versions.

What do you think??

highcalonic said:

I remember being in the line for the Lovesexy show,
and they were selling the program a few hours before we got in.

And so we got plenty of time to go through the pages and I read "Camille" as,
as you said, being a mask, a modesty,
a way to tell the fans "I've been through some serious shit lately"
without expressing it in the first person.

Keep in mind "Blue Monday" theories were still years ahead.
I don't think anyone got it how serious he was about it at the time,
that he was in fact trying to speak about a very serious depression,
the source of the epiphany that gave life to Lovesexy.

On the surface it seemed as an alibi to explain
the most positive, almost naive record he ever released.
(and at the same time, giving a hell of promotion to the growingly famous bootleg,
the smartest business move to cement himself a definitive legendary status,
in the footstepts of Dyland or Led Zep, through an alternative,
unofficial discography. Other bootlegs quickly emerged.
Too quickly and too numerous not to raise suspicions, in hindsight.
The Trojan Horse was galloping as soon as 1989.
Only when he realized the volume and extent
of his alternative universe did he backpedal and ask for his fair share.)

So, Camille in the Tour Book, an alias.
I could never connect the funny, quirky,
sensuous character singing "Shockadelica"
to this deflection strategy, to this "guy who got depressed, not me" stunt.
He could have use "Alexander Nevermind".
It was just another way to say "Prince".

Or maybe he was trying to hint at his depression originating
in the emasculation of the whole Crystal Ball/Dream Factory/Camille opus.
Maybe Camille got angry and bitter, for not forcing Camille to become a reality
when there was still time. Bitter for not having his genius recognized.

Maybe he started to have regrets about listening to Waronker and reduce SOTT
to a double album, once the highs of the Grandest Concert Of Them All were behind,
maybe he felt ripped off a Grammy he deserved more than Purple Rain.
Maybe, maybe if it had been a triple (and even more diverse) album,
the industry would have been forced to recognize the genius,
forced to let The Joshua Tree dry in the desert.

But show-business considerations aside, maybe he was disappointed at himself
for not fighting enough to impose his utopia, his sixties-like vision of frequent
releases, fast artistic transitions, bold creative ambitions.

He got reasoned by businessmen at a moment
where his creativity was firing on all cylinders, blues, funk, vaudeville,
introspection, guitar hero, Vegas crooning, the result of all the years of hard work
and dedication were there, undisputable, giving more fruits than he was able to pick.

And then you end up with just a double album. Think about it.
It's an impossible feat to get into Prince's head, but the smorgasbord
that is the forthcoming box doesn't even cover everything (the main absentees
residing on Crystal Ball, and then some more missing).
How many LP's again? Just two. Sure, not everything in the box
is Crystal material, but Columbia had the balls, so why not Warner?

No wonder the ultimate fan-made multi-gigabyte box
is called "A Year In The Life".
This is the year Skipper transitioned
from Superman to Dr. Manhattan
(oh well, maybe a funkier version).

I think we often project in Prince an ability to plan in advance,
first because there's a need to rationalize his moves and decisions,
and then because most of the time his instincts generate double meanings,
double entendres, several ways to interpretation that suggest us
"that must be it! That was what he had in mind!".

But as his complete bio continues to unfurl, thanks to guys like Duane Tudahl
pursuing and refining the immense work done by Per Nilsen, and other unsung heroes,
everyone collaborating at Uptown magazine, and the many discussions we have here,
we know now that most often than not, Prince was just going with the flow,
as many collaborators have stated.

What was certain today could become void the day after.

And because the definitive truth about his intent will never be known,
it gives us enormous freedom to reshape the story, each one to their own liking.
This is something he had understood a long time ago, and the reason
for all the cultivation of mystery and enigma. By letting us provide
the missing pieces, we can all come with alternative endings.

Is "Erotic City" the first Camille song?
Probably. It's quirky. It has a sped up and slowed down voices.
It's sexy. It's funny, in a smart way. It's ambiguous.
But then again, maybe it isn't at all.

And this ongoing doubt is a much better legacy than something engraved in stone.
The fantasy and daydreaming live on. We're still excited about it.
Probably as he intented us to be.

But this is, again and sure enough,
subject to controversy.

One word : brilliant! thank you to share with us what is in your mind without any filter

Although more often than not I don't get everything he writes, and don't get every reference, this guy is alaways brilliant and witty whether you agree with him or not.

I'm still listening to this song every day. I love it.

ludwig said:

I'm still listening to this song every day. I love it.

It's awesome, isn't it?!

I gotta say I did not like this song at all on first listen, the tra la la's and the pitch of his voice really put me off. However, I revisited it yesterday and it's really grown on me. Everything from 4:15 to the end is phenomenal. He was truly in an experimental place with this song and I really can't criticize him for that. Now would I play this for my friends? Probably not.