Pokeno4Money said:

Nothing they played those two days was anti-establishment IMO.

Prince was attracted to some of the punk and new wave scenes....the audience had some 1%'er Hells Angels types. Different approaches to being anti-establishment.

There were definitely statements in Controversy and Jack U Off wasn't as provocative as Head, but... close.

poppys said:

Bingo. You may think you know what you are talking about but you weren't there - in 1964 or maybe "81 either.

Based on my disinterest to give personal info?

...here's a tip, you'll find me talking about California, and about the 80's, both in vivid detail for a reason....meanwhile a few posts back you mentioned you were in the Midwest then.

lavendardrummachine said:

poppys said:

Bingo. You may think you know what you are talking about but you weren't there - in 1964 or maybe "81 either. Your lack of first hand knowledge is showing in the discussion. Relying on other opinions you have heard or read. There are no winners of who knows what they're talking about the most here anyway.

Based on my disinterest to give personal info?

...here's a tip, you'll find me talking about California, and about the 80's, both in vivid detail for a reason....meanwhile a few posts back you mentioned you were in the Midwest then.

Thanks, but I'm not here to play puzzles with people who know everything. And - I lived in NYC all of the 80s.

Kinda lost me with the "a" Stevie Wonder comment, and to say most people (back in the day) only knew 3 Jimi Hendrix songs is just plain wrong.

[Edited 2/4/20 6:34am]

Pokeno4Money said:

herb4 said:

What Prince and his band did then did was punk as hell and that audience wasn't ready for it.

I don't agree, and I'll tell you why.

The shows were scheduled just a few days prior to the Controversy album being released.

More than anything, punk music is anti-establishment.

If they wanted to go punk for those shows, they'd have played "Ronnie Talk To Russia" and "Annie Christian" and "Controversy" along with some songs from Dirty Mind and his self-titled first album.

Nothing they played those two days was anti-establishment IMO.

Those would have been great songs to play

.

1st opening night

1.Bambi
2.When You Were Mine
3.Uptown
4.Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad?

.

2nd opening night

1.Bambi
2.When You Were Mine
3.Jack U Off
4.Uptown
5.Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad?

poppys said:

And - I lived in NYC all of the 80s.

Kinda lost me with the "a" Stevie Wonder comment, and to say most people (back in the day) only knew 3 Jimi Hendrix songs is just plain wrong.

[Edited 2/3/20 6:05am]

NY in the 80's was nothing like California in the 80's. Prince was familiar with both.


Purple Haze, Hey Joe, and Voodoo Child...okay, you're right, one more...Foxey Lady. All Along the Watchtower was a cover, but I guess his version was known. So, 4 or 5 songs. And really that's not that far off from what people know of his body of work to this very day.

[Edited 2/3/20 18:31pm]

lavendardrummachine said:

poppys said:

And - I lived in NYC all of the 80s.

Kinda lost me with the "a" Stevie Wonder comment, and to say most people (back in the day) only knew 3 Jimi Hendrix songs is just plain wrong.

NY in the 80's was nothing like California in the 80's. Prince was familiar with both.


Purple Haze, Hey Joe, and Voodoo Child...okay, you're right, one more...Foxey Lady. All Along the Watchtower was a cover, but I guess his version was known. So, 4 or 5 songs. And really that's not that far off from what people know of his body of work to this very day.

No mention of your ace thread reading comprehension re where I lived in the 80s, huh?. Maybe you'll remember this. I lived in San Francisco in the 70s. Castro & 20th St - 2 blocks away from the Elephant Walk where Sylvester held court daily. We were stone cold to the bone Sylvester freaks before we moved out there.

As far as your smug Hendrix synopisis - Wah, I disagree with you, so what? Now you're just trolling.

[Edited 2/3/20 19:30pm]

poppys said:

. Castro & 20th St - 2 blocks away from the Elephant Walk where Sylvester held court daily. We were stone cold to the bone Sylvester freaks before we moved out there.

[Edited 2/3/20 19:30pm]

If you say so.

Doubt you even remember the point of trying to have an off topic pissing contest but I'm sensing your posts were projection. Saying you were there means nothing if you can't add the color of someone who was there. You haven't actually articulated what you take issue with besides petty semantics and wanting to be the only know it all in the room.

[Edited 2/3/20 22:00pm]

lavendardrummachine said:

poppys said:


No mention of your ace thread reading comprehension re where I lived in the 80s, huh?. Maybe you'll remember this. I lived in San Francisco in the 70s. Castro & 20th St - 2 blocks away from the Elephant Walk where Sylvester held court daily. We were stone cold to the bone Sylvester freaks before we moved out there.

As far as your smug Hendrix synopisis - Wah, I disagree with you, so what? Now you're just trolling.

If you say so.

Doubt you even remember the point of trying to have an off topic pissing contest but I'm sensing your posts were projection. Saying you were there means nothing if you can't add the color of someone who was there. You haven't actually articulated what you take issue with besides petty semantics and wanting to be the only know it all in the room.

poppys said:

You really haven't. Mentioning you hung out in a bar? Do you think anyone here knows how different the mood was towards LGBTQ even blocks from The Castro? Or hell, in the 70's, the distance between Gay bars on Castro itself?

So what are you trying to add to the conversation? What are you saying that's suppoed to help inform anyone here of what a Rolling Stones crowd in California could be like in 1981?

and u all thought this was JUST a prince site....

jfenster said:

and u all thought this was JUST a prince site....

Ironically I came to PM&M to avoid P&R ...

jfenster said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

isnt this more homo-erotic than sissy-fied???

No, it's just Prince trying to look cool but failing miserably

These satiny colourful football (soccer) disco shorts were equally worn by men and women in these days. The trend lasted for some time but I never really liked it.

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

was this homophobic to you? where you ashamed to buy it?

funny that you ask...i bought it...but i kept it in the back of my crates behind other albums, so visitors didnt see it

Although I had no problems with it myself, I still did the same with this album (and with the Dirty Mind one as well) whenever family came round, and I am a female. But I was quite young and understood that this image - as most of what Prince did in those days - had a provocative tone.

This is called foregrounding in poetry: the technique consists in contrasting an unexpected element against a familiar background. It is also called 'defamiliarisation'. It makes people think, it also makes them talk, it often causes controversy and the whole purpose is to 'catch' an audience's attention.

And it worked.

CherryMoon57 said:

These satiny colourful football (soccer) disco shorts were equally worn by men and women in these days. The trend lasted for some time but I never really liked it.

Yeah you're right, it was just how people dressed at the time, but some of the fashion trends came out of the Gay discos to begin with, so it's a funny thing, because a lot of people weren't sophisticated enough to know that when it filtered into fashion for heterosexuals. Shots and legwarmers, sure (though Prince may have been an early adopter), but the stockings on the other hand....

Pokeno4Money said:

herb4 said:

What Prince and his band did then did was punk as hell and that audience wasn't ready for it.

I don't agree, and I'll tell you why.

The shows were scheduled just a few days prior to the Controversy album being released.

More than anything, punk music is anti-establishment.

If they wanted to go punk for those shows, they'd have played "Ronnie Talk To Russia" and "Annie Christian" and "Controversy" along with some songs from Dirty Mind and his self-titled first album.

Nothing they played those two days was anti-establishment IMO.

I meant the defiant attitude not the setlist

lavendardrummachine said:

CherryMoon57 said:

These satiny colourful football (soccer) disco shorts were equally worn by men and women in these days. The trend lasted for some time but I never really liked it.

Yeah you're right, it was just how people dressed at the time, but some of the fashion trends came out of the Gay discos to begin with, so it's a funny thing, because a lot of people weren't sophisticated enough to know that when it filtered into fashion for heterosexuals. Shots and legwarmers, sure (though Prince may have been an early adopter), but the stockings on the other hand....

I wasn't aware of the whole gay thing at the time because I was still a child but I remember very well the fashion and music. I also think Saturday Night Fever probably helped popularise the whole disco dance movement, with the Bee Gees and the Village People songs blasting out everywhere in the Summer, shortly afterwards came the Aerobics era, followed by the Fame series... Remember Gene Anthony Ray (the main dancer)? I never missed an episode. You can definitely see a little bit of all those influences in the earlier Prince circa American bandstand.

[Edited 2/5/20 16:11pm]

CherryMoon57 said:

I wasn't aware of the whole gay thing at the time because I was still a child but I remember very well the fashion and music. I also think Saturday Night Fever probably helped popularise the whole disco dance movement, with the Bee Gees and the Village People songs blasting out everywhere in the Summer, shortly afterwards came the Aerobics era, followed by the Fame series... Remember Gene Anthony Ray (the main dancer)? I never missed an episode. You can definitely see a little bit of all those influences in the earlier Prince circa American bandstand.

Leroy! Perfect example. Prince was a few years before Fame but that's definitely the look.

herb4 said:

I meant the defiant attitude not the setlist

Okay, got it. Yeah he was definitely a bad boy & rebel back then, and I'll always believe his decision to play "Jack U Off" was just a part of that rebellious side. He knew it would piss off the crowd, and I think that's what he wanted.

CherryMoon57 said:

I wasn't aware of the whole gay thing at the time because I was still a child but I remember very well the fashion and music. I also think Saturday Night Fever probably helped popularise the whole disco dance movement, with the Bee Gees and the Village People songs blasting out everywhere in the Summer, shortly afterwards came the Aerobics era, followed by the Fame series... Remember Gene Anthony Ray (the main dancer)? I never missed an episode. You can definitely see a little bit of all those influences in the earlier Prince circa American bandstand.

This pic says it all.

Pokeno4Money said:

This pic says it all.

That Tommy Barbarella with the custom wasitband and the belly shirt look didn't stick though did it? That's pretty close to being full on drag.

But damn, I wish Prince went through more of a humongous hat phase.

From Bowie to Zeppelin: 6 legendary acts that Keith Richards hates

https://faroutmagazine.co..._1IXbcFVbs

Prince

Prince’s influence on music since his 1980 debut is undeniable brilliance which ultimately ended up with the singer opening for The Rolling Stones, it may have been that incident which saw the Purple One go in Keef’s little black book.

He says, damningly: “An overrated midget… Prince has to find out what it means to be a prince. That’s the trouble with conferring a title on yourself before you’ve proved it.

“His attitude when he opened for us… was insulting to our audience. You don’t try to knock off the headline like that when you’re playing a Stones crowd. He’s a prince who thinks he’s a king already. Good luck to him.”

rdhull said:

From Bowie to Zeppelin: 6 legendary acts that Keith Richards hates

https://faroutmagazine.co..._1IXbcFVbs

Prince

Prince’s influence on music since his 1980 debut is undeniable brilliance which ultimately ended up with the singer opening for The Rolling Stones, it may have been that incident which saw the Purple One go in Keef’s little black book.

He says, damningly: “An overrated midget… Prince has to find out what it means to be a prince. That’s the trouble with conferring a title on yourself before you’ve proved it.

“His attitude when he opened for us… was insulting to our audience. You don’t try to knock off the headline like that when you’re playing a Stones crowd. He’s a prince who thinks he’s a king already. Good luck to him.”

HAha - egomaniac curmudgeon who was too high at the time to know Prince was his given name. Keep talking Keith.

lavendardrummachine said:

That Tommy Barbarella with the custom wasitband and the belly shirt look didn't stick though did it? That's pretty close to being full on drag.

But damn, I wish Prince went through more of a humongous hat phase.

Yup, looked like full on drag to me.

I dunno about the hat thing, I think his head was too small for huge hats.

Keef fan, but he's a bit of a turd sometimes. He also has a very traditional, old school view of songwriting. And bad taste, apparently.

i think keef's problem with Prince was that Jagger was so into him....he was jealous

jfenster said:

jfenster said:

i think keef's problem with Prince was that Jagger was so into him....he was jealous

You could be right. Either way, I think Keef's comments squash the argument that the crowd disliked Prince because of his race. If anybody is familiar with Stones fans, it would be Keef. I think Jagger was a moron for letting his fondness of Prince convince himself that opening for the Stones there was a good idea.

rdhull said:

From Bowie to Zeppelin: 6 legendary acts that Keith Richards hates

https://faroutmagazine.co..._1IXbcFVbs

Prince

Prince’s influence on music since his 1980 debut is undeniable brilliance which ultimately ended up with the singer opening for The Rolling Stones, it may have been that incident which saw the Purple One go in Keef’s little black book.

He says, damningly: “An overrated midget… Prince has to find out what it means to be a prince. That’s the trouble with conferring a title on yourself before you’ve proved it.

“His attitude when he opened for us… was insulting to our audience. You don’t try to knock off the headline like that when you’re playing a Stones crowd. He’s a prince who thinks he’s a king already. Good luck to him.”

I also recall Keith talking more shit about Prince in another interview,this one from the late 80s.He said something like "Prince is like the Monkees of this generation....he just likes to shock the industry"....or something to that effect.