violetcrush said:

I agree - here's my earlier post as I think it bears repeating....

*

Hey folks - can you imagine the "trash talk" we'd hear had the conversations of Morris, Jesse, JellyBean, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Wendy, Lisa, BrownMark, Matt Fink, Sheila E, Miko...etc, etc, etc. been secretly and ILLEGALLY recorded throughout the last 40 years??!!! Come on!!!!!!!! This is just ridiculous.

*

The conversation was deceptivley and illegally recorded - period, end of discussion. It would never be permissible as evidence in a court of law as recordings can be edited and "doctored", and legal action can also be taken against someone who records conversations without the participant's knowledge.

*

Regarding the April celebration....I have no doubt that every single associate performing at that event has talked "trash" about Prince during and after their time with him. Hell, they've even discussed grievances "on the record" in the past. Prince was an extremely gifted musician, but also complicated and often very difficult to work with - we all know this.

*

I think many are forgetting that it seems Jesse saved Prince's ass back in 1984 after Monte, Jimmy, and Terry left the band, and Morris had refused to work with the new players. He went in and took over to teach the new guys for the film. No doubt Prince helped him and the others get into the business, but it seems he also took more than he gave at times. He wanted full control, and also the main spotlight, which does not leave room for growth under his umbrella.

[Edited 2/12/19 6:08am]

The problem isn't what Jesse said about Prince. He has been saying it since the 80's.

The problem (for me) is what Jesse said about the Celebration and how he would not participate in it and under Prince's banner and now all of a sudden he is partcipating in it.

Please see Post #21 on this thread, it will explain what Jesse said about the Celebration.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

I agree - here's my earlier post as I think it bears repeating....

*

Hey folks - can you imagine the "trash talk" we'd hear had the conversations of Morris, Jesse, JellyBean, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Wendy, Lisa, BrownMark, Matt Fink, Sheila E, Miko...etc, etc, etc. been secretly and ILLEGALLY recorded throughout the last 40 years??!!! Come on!!!!!!!! This is just ridiculous.

*

The conversation was deceptivley and illegally recorded - period, end of discussion. It would never be permissible as evidence in a court of law as recordings can be edited and "doctored", and legal action can also be taken against someone who records conversations without the participant's knowledge.

*

Regarding the April celebration....I have no doubt that every single associate performing at that event has talked "trash" about Prince during and after their time with him. Hell, they've even discussed grievances "on the record" in the past. Prince was an extremely gifted musician, but also complicated and often very difficult to work with - we all know this.

*

I think many are forgetting that it seems Jesse saved Prince's ass back in 1984 after Monte, Jimmy, and Terry left the band, and Morris had refused to work with the new players. He went in and took over to teach the new guys for the film. No doubt Prince helped him and the others get into the business, but it seems he also took more than he gave at times. He wanted full control, and also the main spotlight, which does not leave room for growth under his umbrella.

[Edited 2/12/19 6:08am]

The problem isn't what Jesse said about Prince. He has been saying it since the 80's.

The problem (for me) is what Jesse said about the Celebration and how he would not participate in it and under Prince's banner and now all of a sudden he is partcipating in it.

Please see Post #21 on this thread, it will explain what Jesse said about the Celebration.

Someone acted hypocritical? CLUTCH THE PEARLS!! BEHEAD HIM!!

rdhull said:

PennyPurple said:

The problem isn't what Jesse said about Prince. He has been saying it since the 80's.

The problem (for me) is what Jesse said about the Celebration and how he would not participate in it and under Prince's banner and now all of a sudden he is partcipating in it.

Please see Post #21 on this thread, it will explain what Jesse said about the Celebration.

Someone acted hypocritical? CLUTCH THE PEARLS!! BEHEAD HIM!!

I'm glad prince put out shockadelica, i loved all his b sides in those years. Jesse, from what I remember, had a moderate success with his first album, it was actually pretty good and had solid minneapolis funk but he came across as a prince clone, whether that's true or not is another arguement. Susan Rogers said that he intentionaly did that, he denies it in interviews (naturally). At any rate by the shockadelica album, none of the minneapolis groups aside from janet jackson's productions were really doing much on the charts, including prince. Jesse Johnson's shockadelica didn't do much from what i remember. I listened to it a couple times, can't remember much about it other than crazay with sly stone which was ok.

SquirrelMeat said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It is a blessing and a curse if you come from the 1978-1988 Prince scene.

I hate the interviewers who in 2000 something still ask them to deep degrees about Prince and 'Is he really a control freak' It's very annoying interviewing. I love to hear about Prince from them too, but the questions are never anything that goes into the artistry or individuality. Just the same 'umbrella' questions. So I can see how it can annoy Jesse. He's done great work after Prince too. But that is not acknowledged.

Personally, I'm convinced that Prince's move to the Black Album, and re-capturing his 'black audience' was influenced by the work Jesse was producing in 1986.

Jesse pulled Prince's idol out of semi-retirement (Sly), re-recorded 'If you see me (do yourself a favor) with a pure MPLS sound and touched on race issues with 'Black In America'.

If you think about the time frame, Jesse was gaining success with funk roots, while Prince was moving into the pure 'pop' culture.

It's clear Prince tried to gatecrash Jesse's work by offering a title track in 'Shockadelica', but to some degree, I'm glad Jesse passed to draw a line under the past. It was a bit petty when Prince put it out after the turn down.

PeteSilas said:

I'm glad prince put out shockadelica, i loved all his b sides in those years. Jesse, from what I remember, had a moderate success with his first album, it was actually pretty good and had solid minneapolis funk but he came across as a prince clone, whether that's true or not is another arguement. Susan Rogers said that he intentionaly did that, he denies it in interviews (naturally). At any rate by the shockadelica album, none of the minneapolis groups aside from janet jackson's productions were really doing much on the charts, including prince. Jesse Johnson's shockadelica didn't do much from what i remember. I listened to it a couple times, can't remember much about it other than crazay with sly stone which was ok.

SquirrelMeat said:

Personally, I'm convinced that Prince's move to the Black Album, and re-capturing his 'black audience' was influenced by the work Jesse was producing in 1986.

Jesse pulled Prince's idol out of semi-retirement (Sly), re-recorded 'If you see me (do yourself a favor) with a pure MPLS sound and touched on race issues with 'Black In America'.

If you think about the time frame, Jesse was gaining success with funk roots, while Prince was moving into the pure 'pop' culture.

It's clear Prince tried to gatecrash Jesse's work by offering a title track in 'Shockadelica', but to some degree, I'm glad Jesse passed to draw a line under the past. It was a bit petty when Prince put it out after the turn down.

@SquirrelMeat:

*

All of those thoughts make sense. It seems, based on other accounts from past associates, Prince wanted their success under his umbrella - as long as he controlled their work, but when they left to be their own musicians he was a bit bitter and competitive instead of supportive and happy for them.

*

@Pete:

*

Jimmy Jam told the story of Prince throwing a smashed copy of Control - the first album they produced for Janet J - on to either the street or the driveway in front of his Mom's house. Listening to the first Parade gig at 1st Avenue clearly shows how competitive Prince was with those guys. He called many of them out on that night - Jimmy, Morris, Paul Peterson.

[Edited 2/12/19 13:19pm]

ya, i heard that, i'm no fan of janet but the music was great, no doubt about it, prince's reaction? more along "the lady doth protest too much".

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

I'm glad prince put out shockadelica, i loved all his b sides in those years. Jesse, from what I remember, had a moderate success with his first album, it was actually pretty good and had solid minneapolis funk but he came across as a prince clone, whether that's true or not is another arguement. Susan Rogers said that he intentionaly did that, he denies it in interviews (naturally). At any rate by the shockadelica album, none of the minneapolis groups aside from janet jackson's productions were really doing much on the charts, including prince. Jesse Johnson's shockadelica didn't do much from what i remember. I listened to it a couple times, can't remember much about it other than crazay with sly stone which was ok.

@SquirrelMeat:

*

All of those thoughts make sense. It seems, based on other accounts from past associates, Prince wanted their success under his umbrella - as long as he controlled their work, but when they left to be their own musicians he was a bit bitter and competitive instead of supportive and happy for them.

*

@Pete:

*

Jimmy Jam told the story of Prince throwing a smashed copy of Control - the first album they produced for Janet J - on to either the street or the driveway in front of his Mom's house. Listening to the first Parade gig at 1st Avenue clearly shows how competitive Prince was with those guys. He called many of them out on that night - Jimmy, Morris, Paul Peterson.

[Edited 2/12/19 13:19pm]

I've never had good reason to doubt that prince lifted the time's stuff and there was no shortage of people who claimed he recorded rehearsal sessions, jams, stole music. Jesse said it since the 80's, even mark cardenas said it in a message to me. I just wonder if any of these guys have any proof and if he did steal, exactly what did he steal. I'm not talking about all the stuff we all know about (do me baby, partyup), i wonder about his hits, Jimmy jam tells the story of prince doing 1999 in one night so that obviously had no help from the time from the way he tells it. Jesse claims that since the time broke up prince had nothing but crap but that wasn't even true, that was his most creative period yet in hindsight although he wasn't selling like hotcakes anymore.

PeteSilas said:

ya, i heard that, i'm no fan of janet but the music was great, no doubt about it, prince's reaction? more along "the lady doth protest too much".

violetcrush said:

@SquirrelMeat:

*

All of those thoughts make sense. It seems, based on other accounts from past associates, Prince wanted their success under his umbrella - as long as he controlled their work, but when they left to be their own musicians he was a bit bitter and competitive instead of supportive and happy for them.

*

@Pete:

*

Jimmy Jam told the story of Prince throwing a smashed copy of Control - the first album they produced for Janet J - on to either the street or the driveway in front of his Mom's house. Listening to the first Parade gig at 1st Avenue clearly shows how competitive Prince was with those guys. He called many of them out on that night - Jimmy, Morris, Paul Peterson.

[Edited 2/12/19 13:19pm]

Oh man how I LOVED that album!!! Summer of '86.....soooooo many great songs that Summer for a 19 yr old girl

*

What they and/or Janet and whomever else did with her image - changing it to that "I'm a tough chick and I'll show the boys how it's done" was brilliant for the time. I think it literally started a movement - Madonna got "buff" and tougher too.

*

I think Prince still deserves some credit though - Nasty Girl became Nasty Boys, and there is an element of Prince's Controversy in her song What Have You Done For Me Lately. When Prince sang the title lyric in the middle of Controversy it seemed to fit right in there

Well I'm glad he released it too. I just didn't like the 'intention'

Shockadelica was his 2nd album, Jesse Johnsons Revue was the 1st.

He also had songs in movie soundtracks

http://prince.org/msg/5/445178?pr

PeteSilas said:

I'm glad prince put out shockadelica, i loved all his b sides in those years. Jesse, from what I remember, had a moderate success with his first album, it was actually pretty good and had solid minneapolis funk but he came across as a prince clone, whether that's true or not is another arguement. Susan Rogers said that he intentionaly did that, he denies it in interviews (naturally). At any rate by the shockadelica album, none of the minneapolis groups aside from janet jackson's productions were really doing much on the charts, including prince. Jesse Johnson's shockadelica didn't do much from what i remember. I listened to it a couple times, can't remember much about it other than crazay with sly stone which was ok.

SquirrelMeat said:

Personally, I'm convinced that Prince's move to the Black Album, and re-capturing his 'black audience' was influenced by the work Jesse was producing in 1986.

Jesse pulled Prince's idol out of semi-retirement (Sly), re-recorded 'If you see me (do yourself a favor) with a pure MPLS sound and touched on race issues with 'Black In America'.

If you think about the time frame, Jesse was gaining success with funk roots, while Prince was moving into the pure 'pop' culture.

It's clear Prince tried to gatecrash Jesse's work by offering a title track in 'Shockadelica', but to some degree, I'm glad Jesse passed to draw a line under the past. It was a bit petty when Prince put it out after the turn down.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, i heard that, i'm no fan of janet but the music was great, no doubt about it, prince's reaction? more along "the lady doth protest too much".

Oh man how I LOVED that album!!! Summer of '86.....soooooo many great songs that Summer for a 19 yr old girl

*

What they and/or Janet and whomever else did with her image - changing it to that "I'm a tough chick and I'll show the boys how it's done" was brilliant for the time. I think it literally started a movement - Madonna got "buff" and tougher too.

*

I think Prince still deserves some credit though - Nasty Girl became Nasty Boys, and there is an element of Prince's Controversy in her song What Have You Done For Me Lately. When Prince sang the title lyric in the middle of Controversy it seemed to fit right in there

Oh, and was just looking back at the Control tracks, and I never realized that Monte Moir wrote The Pleasure Principle! Pretty cool

there were snatches of prince's stuff that i caught that they stole, not the sound, that's obvious but actual melody lines. Either way, they managed to have more hits than the man they started with so more power to them. I sent my cd to them many years ago and they rejected me with a letter, you might say i'd be resentful, not at all, i was flattered to get a response and they were the only ones out of all the dozens i sent cd's to to respond.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, i heard that, i'm no fan of janet but the music was great, no doubt about it, prince's reaction? more along "the lady doth protest too much".

Oh man how I LOVED that album!!! Summer of '86.....soooooo many great songs that Summer for a 19 yr old girl

*

What they and/or Janet and whomever else did with her image - changing it to that "I'm a tough chick and I'll show the boys how it's done" was brilliant for the time. I think it literally started a movement - Madonna got "buff" and tougher too.

*

I think Prince still deserves some credit though - Nasty Girl became Nasty Boys, and there is an element of Prince's Controversy in her song What Have You Done For Me Lately. When Prince sang the title lyric in the middle of Controversy it seemed to fit right in there

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Oh man how I LOVED that album!!! Summer of '86.....soooooo many great songs that Summer for a 19 yr old girl

*

What they and/or Janet and whomever else did with her image - changing it to that "I'm a tough chick and I'll show the boys how it's done" was brilliant for the time. I think it literally started a movement - Madonna got "buff" and tougher too.

*

I think Prince still deserves some credit though - Nasty Girl became Nasty Boys, and there is an element of Prince's Controversy in her song What Have You Done For Me Lately. When Prince sang the title lyric in the middle of Controversy it seemed to fit right in there

Oh, and was just looking back at the Control tracks, and I never realized that Monte Moir wrote The Pleasure Principle! Pretty cool

i didn't even know that, it's good that some of them stayed together and looked out for each other, the music business is brutal, take it from me.

and no one has mentioned how prince did the dickish thing of calling jesse in the middle of the night and telling him his album sucked and hanging up on him. complicated relationship on both sides.

PeteSilas said:

and no one has mentioned how prince did the dickish thing of calling jesse in the middle of the night and telling him his album sucked and hanging up on him. complicated relationship on both sides.

The point is, what Jesse said about the Celebration and how he wouldn't be under Prince's 'banner'. Jesse has made himself clear since the 80's how he feels about Prince. He made himself clear about the Celebration too. And now he is attending the Celebration, which he doesn't believe in....

PennyPurple said:

PeteSilas said:

and no one has mentioned how prince did the dickish thing of calling jesse in the middle of the night and telling him his album sucked and hanging up on him. complicated relationship on both sides.

The point is, what Jesse said about the Celebration and how he wouldn't be under Prince's 'banner'. Jesse has made himself clear since the 80's how he feels about Prince. He made himself clear about the Celebration too. And now he is attending the Celebration, which he doesn't believe in....

Yes, youve stated such, many times already. It seems like you just want to cause as much trouble as the sneaky snake who secretly recorded Jesse does.

here is the documentary that The Time released with their 2011 album 'Condensate'.
Maybe it will help those who are not up to scratch on the history, although considering its an over 3 decades history, it only really scratches the surface.

[Edited 2/12/19 18:20pm]

PeteSilas said:

and no one has mentioned how prince did the dickish thing of calling jesse in the middle of the night and telling him his album sucked and hanging up on him. complicated relationship on both sides.

If I had to describe Prince with one word, it would be insecure.

rdhull said:

PennyPurple said:

The point is, what Jesse said about the Celebration and how he wouldn't be under Prince's 'banner'. Jesse has made himself clear since the 80's how he feels about Prince. He made himself clear about the Celebration too. And now he is attending the Celebration, which he doesn't believe in....

Yes, youve stated such, many times already. It seems like you just want to cause as much trouble as the sneaky snake who secretly recorded Jesse does.

I don't see Jesse denying what was said, do you?

funksterr said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

violetcrush said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Nawww. The word you’re looking for is “Badass!”

An insecure, controlling badass

rdhull said:

Id rather see Jesse there then 75 percent of those burn out associates, regardless of what he said or didnt say.

Tell me about it. Other than Jesse, the only ones on the Celebration bill of interest to me are Katz & Stokley, & there's 6 names on there that I've never heard of in my life

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

PeteSilas said:

reminds me of a story, my mentor, who i've mentioned many times here, was bruce lee's best friend, sometime after our relationship went sour, i read an interview where he said that he recalled bruce running after someone at his store who tried to park his car in his lot, I always wondered as egostistical as it might sound, if his brain got the memory of me and bruce mixed up because that happened when I worked for him. I could see his aging brain confusing things, in fact, he can't even remember me, one of his closest students unless people prompt him and say "you know, pete, from the store, security". And..., I hate to say it but there have been many times when I remember something i saw on video as slightly different to what it really was, if it weren't for you tube, i'd probably never be able to see that my memory isn't 100 percent either, but it's better than anyone I know. The human brain is a mysterious thing.

Agreed. Science tells us eye-witness accounts are the most unreliable

Would be wonderful if people could remember that.

I have noticed people are very keen on quoting one sided statements as stone cold objective fact. The ones that particularly grate are the post '16 quotes from stories with only P as a witness, or a story that P &/or other parties present have never given their thoughts on.
I see this happening constantly "well, so & so said that Prince...".

PennyPurple said:

rdhull said:

Yes, youve stated such, many times already. It seems like you just want to cause as much trouble as the sneaky snake who secretly recorded Jesse does.

I don't see Jesse denying what was said, do you?

What are you trying to achieve..or de-chieve? Are you Laura Richardson using a new name?

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

violetcrush said:

An insecure, controlling badass

Yeah, but it was his house/studios/label, his fame, his money, his reputation. Anybody didn’t like it, they could take a walk. That’s just how it is.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

violetcrush said:

An insecure, controlling badass

Yeah, but it was his house/studios/label, his fame, his money, his reputation. Anybody didn’t like it, they could take a walk.

Oh, they did. Damn near everybody in the 80's.

PennyPurple said:

Maybe he should be dis-invited from the celebration.

ahh..now it all makes sense

rdhull said:

PennyPurple said:

Maybe he should be dis-invited from the celebration.

ahh..now it all makes sense

They're doing real well with that petition.

ABro said:

rdhull said:

ahh..now it all makes sense

They're doing real well with that petition.

Wait..what? There's a petition lol? details please.