1Sasha said:

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the authorities did not realize what they were walking into on April 21. They were not qualified to handle such a big case (international icon) and the rushed manner in which things were handled was appalling. That being said, I never trusted Larry Graham - I got my head chewed off here when I said Prince was probably supporting him (paid for his move to Minnesota, etc.) all those years. But nothing was the same after he came into the picture. And all the other people on the payroll were protecting their paychecks at Prince's expense, literally and figuratively. I still think he committed suicide, but there is so much here that doesn't add up. Just doesn't.

quit being drama queen, no one here would "chew your head off" over Larry, everyone but me hated him it seemed.

Dibblekins said:

precioux said:

question: these 15 pills were found in a tissue in a "jewelry box"(?) Anyone know if this is/was the same jewelry box that DR made for him that he had kept all this time? Just wondering...

.
From what I can recall it was a white one with a gold Givenchy insignia on it.

Thanks, Dibbles

Agreed -- there's going to be absolutely nothing in that full autopsy that will enlighten us in a meaningful way. Everything important was either in the summary report, or would've been part of the investiation (i.e., a terminal disease would absolutely have triggered an investigative response, because that would be central to why and perhaps how Prince was getting his drugs).

-

With the release of the investigation files, I don't believe that the authorities are sitting on some hidden bombshell info. Any revelations will have to come from the people prince knew.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

look y'all, this gloating and patting yourselves on the backs is a little much. we weren't working on much and really, we still ain't, you think we know everthing? good for you, I still say it's possible the guy was a junkie but I still think it's possible that more is out there. the only thing that would shut me up once and for all is the complete autopsy report.

Mulefunk: if you're out here, let's here your two cents.

also, the aids rumours may have just been that, rumours from insiders who started whispering that the boss didn't look healthy. those get started easy, i remember one of my buddies thinking i was sick and later telling me that he told his wife that i didn't look right, i was probably never healthier, i was training to be a fighter and he wasn't used to seeing me that thin. people start all kinds of rumours over shit.

with all respect, Pete, if and when the full autopsy report comes out because of the ridiculous lawsuit the fam filed yesterday...we will all be deeply regretting that the world is reading about exactly how impacted Prince's colon was because of his long-time opoid use...just like Elvis's autopsey...it will make for heartbreaking reading. We should all be careful what we wish for.

bondno9 said:

Rocksdalocks said:

For those that believe that fentanyl was not his drug of choice and that he didn't knowingly take it, do you also believe that he had no significant prior history with fentanyl? At first I thought this may be the case myself, but then I go back to Dr. D's interview that came out BEFORE the autopsy results. He specifically mentioned fentanyl patches before a cause of death went public. Thoughts?

If it was his drug of choice it should have shown up from his visit on 4-20. Too bad blood wasn't drawn from Moline. If so, we could possibly deduce a pattern of "fentanyl" in his system. Only pattern I've seen so far is hydrocodone (4/20 & 4/21 results). Which fits why LE feels he took counterfeit hydrocodone. The ME even stated the hydrocodonei in his system was a prescribed form. Sooo how did it go from prescribed to counterfeit???

[Edited 4/24/18 11:15am]

And the official conclusion is that Prince likely did not know he had taken the fentanyl that killed him.

Larry Graham was the beginning of the end for Prince. It was all a domino effect after that. Granted, Larry didn't cause Prince's hip pain, etc. But he sure as hell didn't help him to go about the right way to treat it. God forbid someone do the right thing ....course then their gravy train (Prince) would have cut them off. I have no doubt Kirk was involved in getting him these counterfit pills. But I also 100% believe he (Kirk) didn't KNOW they were counterfit. Still no excuse. But nothing about this was malicious I don't think. Other than greed....and negligence.

Robbajobba said:

precioux said:

...Dr D mentioned Dilaudid as well, which was found in Prince's urine from 4/20. This is NOT a coincidence

I don't know how much faith to put in the details of the Dr D interview.

Not saying that, in hindsight, there wasn't a lot of truth in what he said, and that maybe he did supply Prince at some point. But he also said that Prince had a phobia of doctors (which Cystal Zehetner's testimony seems to flatly contradict). And that he took the drugs because of crippling stagefright - which not just MT, but Prizefight too indicated was not the case - that he didn't take drugs for performance, only after.

ya, the stagefright thing just made his interview totally null and void at the time. I said here, "Prince had stage fright like a man has a case of nerves getting ready to fuck a beautiful woman" it was bullshit. He loved the stage. One of the more interesting things in the investigation was that even the stage had become boring, he didn't seem that interested in living anymore. As people said about elvis, what do you do when you've conquered the world, sexxed up all the beautiful woman, it has no meaning after a certain point. In Elvis' case, I always thought the death experience itself had a draw to him as something new and exciting, he sure didn't do much to stop it and he had plenty of warnings and people telling on him.

shednz said:

PeteSilas said:

thing is, all the eighties workers insist there were no drugs at that point (similarly, anyone around Elvis in the fifties insist there were no drugs then). so, pop life was always interpreted at members of the time. the story goes that he and wendy had a blowout over her being seen in public with a beer, and that that was the beginning of the end of their working relationship. Also, maybe he was a hypocrite just like Ray Charles who fired people for doing shit like that but always, always was on something.

It's so easy to hide pill use. Off to another room - bathroom - e.g. quick pill swallow. Little bit of wine to bring on the euphoria feeling. Not using so much he has an obvious need yet. Use turns to abuse turns to full blown addiction over a period of time. All the while slowly needing stronger stuff or more of it, at the same time the body starts getting less and less able to handle it. Also, you can't reconcile the no drug use in the 80s with the ecstacy we know he was playing with in the late 80s. And have you seen those close-up photos of him from early 80s (looks like Controversy clothes) where he is clearly and unashamedly wasted?

show me some photos, there was a thread recently about Prince being od'd on cocaine around the time of 1999/vanity breakup, many people remembered it, i never heard that one myself. at any rate, I can tell you my expereince, I am too fat, recently i took a prescribed pill to curb my appetite, it caused euphoria I liked it too much and told the doc I didn't want it. I gained back the 20 pounds I lost, but, i always thought prince would be like that, i guess i was wrong. Eddie Murphy once claimed his fascination with elvis was that he looked to be in total control and that he was totally out of control. Maybe it was like that for prince, it was certainly like that for Bruce Lee another of my heroes so I've seen it all. Strong people, all I can say is that that realm of fame is crushing. Prince did it longer than many of them.

poppys said:

precioux said:

Prince's vulerability of the loss of his child, coupled with the JW promise that Prince would "see him again" in the afterworld, or however the JW's state it...

I lost a child and don't have any either. It was and is still is very sad, I do think about it, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Of course it's possible.

After reading Mayte's account of what happened during her pregnancy and afterwards, Prince was likely dealing with a lot of guilt and self-loathing. Then entered a fatherly/big brother type figure that he respected, was not connected to the then-current music business per se, who gained his trust by indulging Prince's very real need to feel closer to God, through religious conversion and who later decided to keep his seat on the purple gravy train by any means necessary.

I think it's quite possible.

PeteSilas said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

I'm surprised they didn't mention Londell or inteview him, being his lawyer. He surely could have enlightened them on the will situation?!

Also why didn't Mayte report to them the fact that she thought Prince had a will when they were married? (as she's said in an interview).

The police should have brought into questioning Kirk, Meron and Phaedra as soon as they heard reports of them shredding documents and tampering with evidence. Also, if they couldn't get hold of Prince's emails due to deletion then couldn't they get a warrant to search K,M and P's personal email accounts?

NOTE: I'm not necessarily saying they are guilty of foul play (however them all not giving full statements is rather odd) just that it was severly negligent of the investigation to not question them more thoroughly (bring them into the police station if need be) and follow things up in more depth.

[Edited 4/24/18 10:54am]

couldn't the lawyer who drew up a current will say something? I know the confidentiality issues but couldn't he do it without legal problems?

Any will made through an attorney would be on file even if the physical copy was destroyed. A handwritten or video will is not recognized in Minnesota, where he died. In my state it is and would be considered and/or dragged through court at the very least.

tmo1965 said:

precioux said:

Kirky J-was he shredding the will?(can't really see a reason for that-also, did those docs that were shredded tell of even more $ in Switzerland where Kirky went run hide, and pulled said $ from P's "hiding place " in Sitzerland?)

Meron-was that the cash she got from Prince and SHE was his dealer?

The cash struck me as a bit odd too. She said it was from selling merchandise at shows, but she was not at any of the shows that I'm aware of. So who gave her the money. In her statement, the investigator mentioned that she had a CD burner or something like that. My initial thought was that she is selling bootleg Prince Cds. Then I thought that maybe she is a drug dealer. She also started working for Prince around the time that it was noticable that something was wrong with him.

to the underlined:

ditto on when JH started hanging out with Prince (2014)...and staying at the country Inn and Suites which has no surveillance. I'm curious if that was known by all prior to 4/21 (surveillance), and whether or not this was intentional.

shednz said:

bondno9 said:

If it was his drug of choice it should have shown up from his visit on 4-20. Too bad blood wasn't drawn from Moline. If so, we could possibly deduce a pattern of "fentanyl" in his system. Only pattern I've seen so far is hydrocodone (4/20 & 4/21 results). Which fits why LE feels he took counterfeit hydrocodone. The ME even stated the hydrocodonei in his system was a prescribed form. Sooo how did it go from prescribed to counterfeit???

[Edited 4/24/18 11:15am]

Fentanyl doesn't stay in the sytem for blood and urine tests for very long at all. SO, if he didn't have anymore fentanyl the day before he went to Schulenberg it wouldn't have shown with the tests Schulenberg took. The lack of fentanyl in his system from those tests shows nothing about his pattern of fentanyl use.

ya, that tripped me out when someone here said that, how could such a potent drug not leave a trace so soon.

poppys said:

precioux said:

Prince's vulerability of the loss of his child, coupled with the JW promise that Prince would "see him again" in the afterworld, or however the JW's state it...

I lost a child and don't have any either. It was and is still is very sad, I do think about it, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Of course it's possible.

.

Poppy: I'm so very sorry for your loss. No parent should ever go through the loss of a child.

ksl1974 said:

Larry Graham was the beginning of the end for Prince. It was all a domino effect after that. Granted, Larry didn't cause Prince's hip pain, etc. But he sure as hell didn't help him to go about the right way to treat it. God forbid someone do the right thing ....course then their gravy train (Prince) would have cut them off. I have no doubt Kirk was involved in getting him these counterfit pills. But I also 100% believe he (Kirk) didn't KNOW they were counterfit. Still no excuse. But nothing about this was malicious I don't think. Other than greed....and negligence.

YES, condoned Prince's leaving a marriage to the grieving mother of his child, gave a JW thumbs up to Prince's adultery with his second wife...put a religious/acceptable gloss on these disturbing behaviors up and to including the BURNING of Mayte's possessions and perhaps the ashes of Amiir...I mean..how evil and hypocritical can one freeloader get? and WHY didn't any right-thinking, moral, sensitive person in the inner circle call Bullshit on it all AND point out that that divorce and remarriage had very little to do with living an upstanding Christian life...Wasn't there ONE decent person around him with their head screwed on straight?

when i hear about the healthy shit he did it just reminds me of my sister the alcoholic who would drink till her liver barely functioned and then drink cranberry juice as if they would somehow fix the damage. I think addicts probably do that kind of thing commonly.

disch said:

i think, based on everything we know, that prince may have been health "conscious," but he certainly regularly engaged in behaviors that were descructive to his health. His opioid use was an obvious example, but I'd also say his lack of regular sleep was another. There are probably many more.

-

To me this is an example of needing to separate the persona of prince from the behavioral reality. And also that he had really idiosyncratic ideas about a lot of things, or maybe he just found ways to justify behaviors at least in his own mind.

shednz said:

Opiate use leads to intense constipation. Chances are the enemas were an antidote to that.

shednz said:

cloveringold85 said:

From reviewing the investigation files and pictures over these past 5-days, I learned that Prince liked those 5-Hour Energy drinks, and the "Extra Strength" ones, especially. Being such a health-conscience person that he was, didn't he know that stuff is bad for you. The fact that he was drinking that poison, on top of taking medications (and illegal ones)--that is crazy!

.

He used a lot of Visine.

.

Supplements. He was trying to be healthy, but it was the illegal pills that were making him sick.

.

Seeing the empty containers of enema's is very sad. Was he crushing the pills and taking them that way (the other end)?

.

Some other things that I found disturbing were all of the trash bags laying around PP that contained Prince's clothing and other personal items - why were they thrown away? It seems like someone/several people were rummaging through Prince's stuff. Some of this clothing racks looked like someone pulled clothes off in a hurry and got out of there. Makes me so sad to see this.

.

Seeing the empty package of "syringe" is very sad too.

.

The pictures of the garbage dumpster -- it's like someone was just throwing random stuff away, in open bags.....kinda weird and disgusting!!

Opiate use leads to intense constipation. Chances are the enemas were an antidote to that.

.

Yes, but some addicts will use them to administer the drug faster. I hope that is not what he was doing.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

poppys said:

I lost a child and don't have any either. It was and is still is very sad, I do think about it, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Of course it's possible.

After reading Mayte's account of what happened during her pregnancy and afterwards, Prince was likely dealing with a lot of guilt and self-loathing. Then entered a fatherly/big brother type figure that he respected, was not connected to the then-current music business per se, who gained his trust by indulging Prince's very real need to feel closer to God, through religious conversion and who later decided to keep his seat on the purple gravy train by any means necessary.

I think it's quite possible.

And so sinister, ugh.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

shednz said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Prince did not want any tests done in Moline, but he seemed fine with going to Dr. Schulenberg on the 20th to have tests done -- was he finally realizing that he needed help??

.

Did it take him that long to wake up and smell the coffee??

I'm betting he knew he could go to Schulenberg on that date and the fentanyl not show up. He also knew if he gave blood in Moine it would have shown. He probably ticked the addiction over with hydrocodone etc. in between the flight and the Dr's visit. Once the Dr's tests were done...back on the fentanyl that night

.

Thing is, Dr. Schulenberg did not run tests on Prince the first time he saw him. When he ran tests 4/20, Prince also gave a urine test, which tested positive for Opiates.

cloveringold85 said:

shednz said:

Opiate use leads to intense constipation. Chances are the enemas were an antidote to that.

.

Yes, but some addicts will use them to administer the drug faster. I hope that is not what he was doing.

my first thought was constipation, opioids cause constipation, they said elvis had pounds of "chalky white substance" in his colon and it probably triggered the heart attack as he tried to shit it out.

poppys said:

shednz said:

Can anyone tell me how I search prizefighter's posts on the forum? I have tried but no luck. Thanks.

Go to the google search box in the top right hand corner of any page and type in prizefighter.

hmmm, tried that and the search forums function on the home page. No luck. Does it work for others?

PeteSilas said:

look y'all, this gloating and patting yourselves on the backs is a little much. we weren't working on much and really, we still ain't, you think we know everthing? good for you, I still say it's possible the guy was a junkie but I still think it's possible that more is out there. the only thing that would shut me up once and for all is the complete autopsy report.

Mulefunk: if you're out here, let's here your two cents.

also, the aids rumours may have just been that, rumours from insiders who started whispering that the boss didn't look healthy. those get started easy, i remember one of my buddies thinking i was sick and later telling me that he told his wife that i didn't look right, i was probably never healthier, i was training to be a fighter and he wasn't used to seeing me that thin. people start all kinds of rumours over shit.

Menes said:

Penny, you've done a great job of compiling the facts that some seem to have an adverse reaction to. It is as if their minds are deeply affected by fantasies unabashed. I commend you for having the courage to post it all and letting the chips fall where they may. Ignore the "happy" crowd that thinks that his is a story unscathed. These are those who believe that a mere mortal is impervious to all things .

As we now evidence, most of the naysayers can not handle the truth and have either retreated into the inner regions of a kangaroo pouch, or continually attempt to switch the narrative. At some point, this (3) sided angle of what truth is, will be narrowed down to one singular source.

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A lot of people here have been following Prince's death investigation very closely, so I'm not sure why you feel it's wrong for people to want to say "thanks" for their hard work and efforts?

.

Most of us are here, because we care and it comes from a place of love.

.

What I get annoyed with is those of you who come in here and want all the information served to you on a silver platter, and then interject your comments without even knowing what's going on in the case or taking the time to review the documents?

.

And then, those same people come in here and criticize others. Whatever.

.

It's quite funny, actually.

disch said:

Agreed -- there's going to be absolutely nothing in that full autopsy that will enlighten us in a meaningful way. Everything important was either in the summary report, or would've been part of the investiation (i.e., a terminal disease would absolutely have triggered an investigative response, because that would be central to why and perhaps how Prince was getting his drugs).

-

With the release of the investigation files, I don't believe that the authorities are sitting on some hidden bombshell info. Any revelations will have to come from the people prince knew.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

with all respect, Pete, if and when the full autopsy report comes out because of the ridiculous lawsuit the fam filed yesterday...we will all be deeply regretting that the world is reading about exactly how impacted Prince's colon was because of his long-time opoid use...just like Elvis's autopsey...it will make for heartbreaking reading. We should all be careful what we wish for.

cops try to find people to charge, they don't look for that kind of thing. they didnt' even thouroughly do there job here did they? you think we have all the answers? With Elvis, the autopsy is sealed but i think we can safely say what killed him because of all the doctors and folks who have broken confidence.

i'm not laughing baby.

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

look y'all, this gloating and patting yourselves on the backs is a little much. we weren't working on much and really, we still ain't, you think we know everthing? good for you, I still say it's possible the guy was a junkie but I still think it's possible that more is out there. the only thing that would shut me up once and for all is the complete autopsy report.

Mulefunk: if you're out here, let's here your two cents.

also, the aids rumours may have just been that, rumours from insiders who started whispering that the boss didn't look healthy. those get started easy, i remember one of my buddies thinking i was sick and later telling me that he told his wife that i didn't look right, i was probably never healthier, i was training to be a fighter and he wasn't used to seeing me that thin. people start all kinds of rumours over shit.

.

A lot of people here have been following Prince's death investigation very closely, so I'm not sure why you feel it's wrong for people to want to say "thanks" for their hard work and efforts?

.

Most of us are here, because we care and it comes from a place of love.

.

What I get annoyed with is those of you who come in here and want all the information served to you on a silver platter, and then interject your comments without even knowing what's going on in the case or taking the time to review the documents?

.

And then, those same people come in here and criticize others. Whatever.

.

It's quite funny, actually.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

ksl1974 said:

Larry Graham was the beginning of the end for Prince. It was all a domino effect after that. Granted, Larry didn't cause Prince's hip pain, etc. But he sure as hell didn't help him to go about the right way to treat it. God forbid someone do the right thing ....course then their gravy train (Prince) would have cut them off. I have no doubt Kirk was involved in getting him these counterfit pills. But I also 100% believe he (Kirk) didn't KNOW they were counterfit. Still no excuse. But nothing about this was malicious I don't think. Other than greed....and negligence.

YES, condoned Prince's leaving a marriage to the grieving mother of his child, gave a JW thumbs up to Prince's adultery with his second wife...put a religious/acceptable gloss on these disturbing behaviors up and to including the BURNING of Mayte's possessions and perhaps the ashes of Amiir...I mean..how evil and hypocritical can one freeloader get? and WHY didn't any right-thinking, moral, sensitive person in the inner circle call Bullshit on it all AND point out that that divorce and remarriage had very little to do with living an upstanding Christian life...Wasn't there ONE decent person around him with their head screwed on straight?

Omarr said he left the JWs after he felt it was too cultish and then Prince stopped talking to him ...since 2011.I would think Manuela may have said something and perhaps Bria left because he was misinterpreting the JW doctrine .I can see Andy Allo not agreeing with JW doctrine and certainly not drug abuse ...Just my opinion

poppys said:

PeteSilas said:

couldn't the lawyer who drew up a current will say something? I know the confidentiality issues but couldn't he do it without legal problems?

Any will made through an attorney would be on file even if the physical copy was destroyed. A handwritten or video will is not recognized in Minnesota, where he died. In my state it is and would be considered and/or dragged through court at the very least.

ok so more than likely, no will.

shednz said:

poppys said:

Go to the google search box in the top right hand corner of any page and type in prizefighter.

hmmm, tried that and the search forums function on the home page. No luck. Does it work for others?

Try prizefight . I thought something didn't look right.

ksl1974 said:

Larry Graham was the beginning of the end for Prince. It was all a domino effect after that. Granted, Larry didn't cause Prince's hip pain, etc. But he sure as hell didn't help him to go about the right way to treat it. God forbid someone do the right thing ....course then their gravy train (Prince) would have cut them off. I have no doubt Kirk was involved in getting him these counterfit pills. But I also 100% believe he (Kirk) didn't KNOW they were counterfit. Still no excuse. But nothing about this was malicious I don't think. Other than greed....and negligence.

it sounds from the documents the hip was replaced, not just operated on but I don't know which is true. Either way, an operation can be botched. Little Richard had an operation in the same year and was left in a wheelchair.

PeteSilas said:

when i hear about the healthy shit he did it just reminds me of my sister the alcoholic who would drink till her liver barely functioned and then drink cranberry juice as if they would somehow fix the damage. I think addicts probably do that kind of thing commonly.

Heck he might as well enjoyed life and ate a steak.

PeteSilas said:

kmama07 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: Good question. My understanding is you are correct. I work with hospice patients and have never seen those who use fentanyl take it in pill form. That's not to say they don't exist but I've not seen them.

i don't know about you guys, but the suicide angle, even if it's in the form of "risky behavior" is still a live possibility. "risky behavior" can be driving through red lights (as he's been known to do) or driving crazy, subconsciously trying to kill yourself. Men often have a hard time with the wimpy (in american ideation) idea of suicide so guys do things like drugs, getting killed coming at the cops with a butter knife because they don't want to live. Prince wasn't no dummy, if he really wanted to live, he would have gotten rid of everything after the od, everything, no matter what he was saying to other people. some poeple are good at lying to themselves, prince, in all my years of studying him, has never seemed like that, never. I remember my stepdad having a few drinks at a party and admitting that he wasn't driving normally, that's the kind of guy i always thought prince would be like, just really self aware. I'm not talking what he said to others, i'm talking what he said to himself here.

.

Prince did not commit suicide. Did you read the investigation reports?

.

You are using you life experiences to rationalize what was going on inside Prince's head. None of us knew him on a personal level.

.

Risky behavior does not always equate to suicide.

.

Lots of people live a high-risk lifestyle, but they don't want to kill themselves.

.

I think you read way too much into things, imo.

cloveringold85 said:

poppys said:

I lost a child and don't have any either. It was and is still is very sad, I do think about it, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Of course it's possible.

.

Poppy: I'm so very sorry for your loss. No parent should ever go through the loss of a child.

Thank you. I am P's age so it was a while ago, but life changing nonetheless.