OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think the 'homoerotic' vibe was never really there. I think that was peoples 'reaction' to Prince.

There is a lot of 'homophobia in peoples adamant need for what we see with Prince to be 'an act' as well. He said only a little bit was acting. And explained what he was talking about.
Prince was androgenous ethnically and gender. That doesn't mean homosexual. That is peoples own internal homophobia.

PeteSilas said:

I happen to think the whole homoerotic vibe was a calculated thing by Prince, one of his early managers recently said prince had even articulated this to him saying he wanted to be someone that no one could tell was straight or gay, this was from the Prince album period. I think it was a very conscious, artistic-commercial decision. I don't know if he ever did anything and there has never been any real serious allegations about any kind of gay sex, plenty of lyrics that toy with the idea, plenty of stage moves that insinuate he was up for it but if he did, i think it was likely very limited.

Talk about beating a dead horse. I am just not understanding this at all. Post in this thread are getting deleted, so this may also; but I swear I am not trying to be racist, or trolling, but are there any black/African American people on here who think that Prince was anything other than Black? What is this? It's just nonsense.

[Edited 10/7/17 18:03pm]

Asenath0607 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think the 'homoerotic' vibe was never really there. I think that was peoples 'reaction' to Prince.

There is a lot of 'homophobia in peoples adamant need for what we see with Prince to be 'an act' as well. He said only a little bit was acting. And explained what he was talking about.
Prince was androgenous ethnically and gender. That doesn't mean homosexual. That is peoples own internal homophobia.

Talk about beating a dead horse. I am just not understanding this at all. Post in this thread are getting deleted, so this may also; but I swear I am not trying to be racist, or trolling, but are there any black/African American people on her who think that Prince was anything other than Black? What is this? It's just nonsense.

I know Prince was a Black American and I'm not even black. I can imagine your frustration.

Asenath0607 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think the 'homoerotic' vibe was never really there. I think that was peoples 'reaction' to Prince.

There is a lot of 'homophobia in peoples adamant need for what we see with Prince to be 'an act' as well. He said only a little bit was acting. And explained what he was talking about.
Prince was androgenous ethnically and gender. That doesn't mean homosexual. That is peoples own internal homophobia.

Talk about beating a dead horse. I am just not understanding this at all. Post in this thread are getting deleted, so this may also; but I swear I am not trying to be racist, or trolling, but are there any black/African American people on her who think that Prince was anything other than Black? What is this? It's just nonsense.

Do you understand what 'androgenous ethnically' means?

.

there is a difference in Biology/DNA and SocioPolitical terms

.

'Am I Black or White Am I Straight or Gay'

.

In 2011 in an interview with a woman, she refers to him as a Black Artists and he stops her.
He pulls him arm next to hers and asks 'Am I?'

.

Prince was always about questioning labels and why. This has nothing to do with a label he wore.

.

So if you also think about this beyond the 'American' socio-political mindset from the 70s onward um if 'Skipper' his mother knickname for him, not Prince the well known artist went to a place like Brazil or parts of Latin America or South Africa or parts of Africa or Europe, people perceptions would be varying. That is the basis of 'androgenous ethnically'

Lots of us go through that, it's about perceptions.

.

In a different way it mirrors the 'androgenous sexual expression'

but if Asenath0607 wants to really discuss things we can, but if you want to shout the conversation down or only choose to see things in binary ways, there is no reason to respond directly or indirectly.

"The world changes according to the way people see it, and if you alter, even by a millimeter, the way a person looks at reality, then you can change it." -James Baldwin

poppys said:

Asenath0607 said:

Talk about beating a dead horse. I am just not understanding this at all. Post in this thread are getting deleted, so this may also; but I swear I am not trying to be racist, or trolling, but are there any black/African American people on her who think that Prince was anything other than Black? What is this? It's just nonsense.

I know Prince was a Black American and I'm not even black. I can imagine your frustration.

androgenous is not about 'socio poliical' terms

I'm a multiracial man, I'm talking from real life experience of 'ethnic androgeny'

Maybe the reason he questioned the interviewer's term Black Artist was because he wanted her to realize she needed to say Artist to describe what he does. That would be the correct professional term. They don't call people White Artists. I doubt he would have had a problem with being called a black man to describe him.

Get where you are coming from. Being multiracial, you have a built in ethnic androgeny. Not sure everyone can understand that - Prince being a son of the black community. How his appearance would be regarded in Brazil et al is a separate issue.

I do think Prince was homoerotic to males and females of whatever persuasion.

poppys said:

Maybe the reason he questioned the interviewer's term Black Artist was because he wanted her to realize she needed to say Artist to describe what he does. That would be the correct professional term. They don't call people White Artists. I doubt he would have had a problem with being called a black man to describe him.

Get where you are coming from. Being multiracial, you have a built in ethnic androgeny. Not sure everyone can understand that - Prince being a son of the black community. How his appearance would be regarded in Brazil et al is a separate issue.

I do think Prince was homoerotic to males and females of whatever persuasion.

But him putting his skin/arm next to hers and she proclaimed that his was lighter than hers...

he was questioning it beyond black artist vs white artist. It was a question of what is race really.
And this is nothing new for Prince. And we should all question these things. Because race as we know it did not always exist. Nor will it always. Where did it come from and why.

.

.

I think ethnicity is fascinating. People lump the human race into 4-5 'racial' catagories, when there are 1000s of ethnic differences throught the world. And the invention of those racial catagories was racist.

Ethnic androgeny even for some multiracial people isn't something they easily experience. If you look at biracial actor/model Boris Kodjoe(African father/German mother) most people don't readily look at him and say 'hmmmm what are you' whereas his wife Nicole Ari who is not 'biracial' but has mixed genetics from both parents is assumed to be biracial. And Boris's brother might experience more ?s about his ethnic makeup.

.

A lof of multiracial identified and biracial people would also be considered 'sons/daughers' of he black community. These identities are not about denial or distance from their African ancestry.

But Prince genetically/biologically is still very visibly 'mixed'. So what I mean is if you remove the celebrity from Prince, and he is just Skipper whether in America or abroad his ethnic make up is still a blend. He is not his European ancestors, he is not his African ancestors. Like a lot of others throught his bands/camp.

.

How Prince would be perceived in Brazil, is actually very much a part of it. Because again, when we cross boarders of lands and nations the idea of 'androgeny' is constantly apparent. Prince didn't just stay in the USA. And again there is a difference in biology/nature and socio-political labelling.

.

I have a friend who is Italian/Sicilian, and he does not identify as white, he checks the other box and writes in Italian/Sicilian, has a strong identity there. He understands what 'white' means and where it comes from and how under that label his people are on a lower catagory. And has an ethnic androgeny that get's him mistaken for Arabic, Cuban, Mexican and even biracial(euro-african).
.

The topic of androgeny isn't so much about how the person identifies but how they are perceived by people:individuals communities or governments. And this brings up questions of FREEDOM. So even this topic about 'homo eroticism' of his body ..of work. Is us looking at and hearing through our perceptions as well as very obvious things.
.
Like when I look at that 1992 performance 'that looks like the Game Boyz and Prince butt humping' I don't know what I'm actually seeing. I don't understand it's place in the performance of the song, what was the intentions etc

.

The topic in general is fascinating to me. And to a lot of others.

.

Jerome Benton has done a few interviews(one recently posted in Associate Artists forum) about UTCM. I don't think anyone has straight out talked about the 'homoeroticism' in the movie. or assumed homoeroticism? Is it our projection that we see or was it intentional?

.

Gray areas are very troubling for people. We need it spelled out and posted in Black and White. Gender Roles defined -he takes out the trash she washes the dishes. Either or Or. Good or Evil etc and the world really isn't like that.

.

Gray areas cause confusion and anger. People ridicule laugh at or persecute people who live in gray areas or ask questions about gray areas.
.
When we think of the Vegas Shooter. It is fucking up a lot of peoples thought processes.
We have to understand WHY and find the origin of evil that made him do what he did. People are calling it the result of SIN or Mental Illness or some Politically motivated move. They have to look into the background to find out what was happening to make him do this because as of yet he has no known criminal history.

.

Bisexuality is troubling to straight and gay communities.

.

we need people to be easily pigeonholded, easily defined so we can easily react or respond.

.
I'm glad Prince put that photo on the cover of the Lovesexy album. To this day I still talk to guys who are Prince fans who are troubled by the image. And even angered by it.

"The world changes according to the way people see it, and if you alter, even by a millimeter, the way a person looks at reality, then you can change it." -James Baldwin

Asenath0607 said:

purplefam99 said:

Asenath0607 said:

Talk about beating a dead horse. I am just not understanding this at all. Post in this thread are getting deleted, so this may also; but I swear I am not trying to be racist, or trolling, but are there any black/African American people on her who think that Prince was anything other than Black? What is this? It's just nonsense.

I would wager that to the majority of black America they never questioned Princes Apparent physical blackness. They knew he was black community. And when Prince Decided to "make it" a question, they community knew what he was doing then too. Some gave the side eye and wondered ok brother make your point but Watch yourself in how far you go to make it, some feel he went too far and left the bosom of his community in order to prove a singular point. His choice. No offense to the crossover audience at the time but they enjoyed this person who was perhaps denying his race to a degree and Prince was enjoying the success That was coming from those that were ok with him doing so. Black people knew he was black there was no wool over that communities eyes. I dare say that the androgyny theme was not one that most in the community wondered about. I believe the majority of the black community always knew he was a man and saw less femininity to the degree that his non black audience saw. For instance I've never heard any of his black associates ever mention how they perceived him as 1/2 male 1/2 female I've only heard him feminized by Wendy and Lisa. I know I may have missed a few other impressions that other have given my point is I've never heard his black colleagues say they thought he was a "girl" Now I'm not Wendy and Lisa bashing so please I don't want that to destroy the convo. Nor do I want to argue. So with that let's discuss.

I have issue with the guessing millions of peoples ideas and mindsets based on a 'racial' label. And that is just never workable. This is not an emotional reaction just a factual.

You open up a few questions. Is there 1 black community? are there more and how do they differ by beliefs: political, family, religious, social etc? Who and where is this 'bosom' community? And who get's to decide?

There are people even who do not identify as Black, but as African-American and don't think they are the same nor synonymous. In the late 70s early 80s my family were connected with a 'sankofa' who lead a large community who was very defined in the difference between a black identity and an African american identity and what they meant.

It as Tony M who is on record by people in the band saying Prince wasn't 'black' enough and that he was going to shove black down that ni&&as throat. Now that is racially pornographic all by itself.

.

Yes people knew he was a man. But the femininity is also very clear. There is no way to deny that.

And crazy Little Richard at the PR premiere with his bible preaching to Prince to change or repent.
Most of the guys I know who had extreme trouble with the Lovesexy cover where Black.

You would have to take a pole to get a real gauge on if 'black people' saw him as less feminine than 'non black' people.

.

Talk to Casey Terry(Mazarati) and Raphael Sadiq from Tony Toni Tone about it when they were being made over by Prince.

.

And as early as 1990 Robin Power was the first person of color that I'm aware of that talked extensively about Prince's 1/2male 1/2female

.

not to mention Prince inserting it throught his music and talking about it on the Oprah interview in 1996 way before Wendy or Lisa talked about it in the 2000s

Morris Day also made comments about Prince's 'androgeny' not to mention other female associates/lovers who have talked about sex with Prince is like sex with a woman.

.

Also a lot of black people are not Prince fans of course. So they are not going to be more supportive in conversations of Prince.

.

I will also say, both genders have different reasons in downplaying Prince's sexual or 'gender' androgeny. Women fans will do it because a lot see Prince as a fantasy lover. (straight male fans are not looking at Prince romantically) So it is a different kind of troubling for women fans, and harder to look at it unbiased.

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:

Maybe the reason he questioned the interviewer's term Black Artist was because he wanted her to realize she needed to say Artist to describe what he does. That would be the correct professional term. They don't call people White Artists. I doubt he would have had a problem with being called a black man to describe him.

Get where you are coming from. Being multiracial, you have a built in ethnic androgeny. Not sure everyone can understand that - Prince being a son of the black community. How his appearance would be regarded in Brazil et al is a separate issue.

I do think Prince was homoerotic to males and females of whatever persuasion.

But him putting his skin/arm next to hers and she proclaimed that his was lighter than hers...

he was questioning it beyond black artist vs white artist. It was a question of what is race really.
And this is nothing new for Prince. And we should all question these things. Because race as we know it did not always exist. Nor will it always. Where did it come from and why.

.

.

I think ethnicity is fascinating. People lump the human race into 4-5 'racial' catagories, when there are 1000s of ethnic differences throught the world. And the invention of those racial catagories was racist.

Ethnic androgeny even for some multiracial people isn't something they easily experience. If you look at biracial actor/model Boris Kodjoe(African father/German mother) most people don't readily look at him and say 'hmmmm what are you' whereas his wife Nicole Ari who is not 'biracial' but has mixed genetics from both parents is assumed to be biracial. And Boris's brother might experience more ?s about his ethnic makeup.

.

A lof of multiracial identified and biracial people would also be considered 'sons/daughers' of he black community. These identities are not about denial or distance from their African ancestry.

But Prince genetically/biologically is still very visibly 'mixed'. So what I mean is if you remove the celebrity from Prince, and he is just Skipper whether in America or abroad his ethnic make up is still a blend. He is not his European ancestors, he is not his African ancestors. Like a lot of others throught his bands/camp.

.

How Prince would be perceived in Brazil, is actually very much a part of it. Because again, when we cross boarders of lands and nations the idea of 'androgeny' is constantly apparent. Prince didn't just stay in the USA. And again there is a difference in biology/nature and socio-political labelling.

.

I have a friend who is Italian/Sicilian, and he does not identify as white, he checks the other box and writes in Italian/Sicilian, has a strong identity there. He understands what 'white' means and where it comes from and how under that label his people are on a lower catagory. And has an ethnic androgeny that get's him mistaken for Arabic, Cuban, Mexican and even biracial(euro-african).
.

The topic of androgeny isn't so much about how the person identifies but how they are perceived by people:individuals communities or governments. And this brings up questions of FREEDOM. So even this topic about 'homo eroticism' of his body ..of work. Is us looking at and hearing through our perceptions as well as very obvious things.
.
Like when I look at that 1992 performance 'that looks like the Game Boyz and Prince butt humping' I don't know what I'm actually seeing. I don't understand it's place in the performance of the song, what was the intentions etc

.

The topic in general is fascinating to me. And to a lot of others.

.

Jerome Benton has done a few interviews(one recently posted in Associate Artists forum) about UTCM. I don't think anyone has straight out talked about the 'homoeroticism' in the movie. or assumed homoeroticism? Is it our projection that we see or was it intentional?

.

Gray areas are very troubling for people. We need it spelled out and posted in Black and White. Gender Roles defined -he takes out the trash she washes the dishes. Either or Or. Good or Evil etc and the world really isn't like that.

.

Gray areas cause confusion and anger. People ridicule laugh at or persecute people who live in gray areas or ask questions about gray areas.
.
When we think of the Vegas Shooter. It is fucking up a lot of peoples thought processes.
We have to understand WHY and find the origin of evil that made him do what he did. People are calling it the result of SIN or Mental Illness or some Politically motivated move. They have to look into the background to find out what was happening to make him do this because as of yet he has no known criminal history.

.

Bisexuality is troubling to straight and gay communities.

.

we need people to be easily pigeonholded, easily defined so we can easily react or respond.

.
I'm glad Prince put that photo on the cover of the Lovesexy album. To this day I still talk to guys who are Prince fans who are troubled by the image. And even angered by it.

"The world changes according to the way people see it, and if you alter, even by a millimeter, the way a person looks at reality, then you can change it." -James Baldwin

Asenath0607 made a point. None of this really changes that. I am aware of race mixing. So, is Prince a son of the black community in your eyes? Both of his parents identified as black. Are you saying he himself did not identify as black because of that interview?

poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But him putting his skin/arm next to hers and she proclaimed that his was lighter than hers...

he was questioning it beyond black artist vs white artist. It was a question of what is race really.
And this is nothing new for Prince. And we should all question these things. Because race as we know it did not always exist. Nor will it always. Where did it come from and why.

.

.

I think ethnicity is fascinating. People lump the human race into 4-5 'racial' catagories, when there are 1000s of ethnic differences throught the world. And the invention of those racial catagories was racist.

Ethnic androgeny even for some multiracial people isn't something they easily experience. If you look at biracial actor/model Boris Kodjoe(African father/German mother) most people don't readily look at him and say 'hmmmm what are you' whereas his wife Nicole Ari who is not 'biracial' but has mixed genetics from both parents is assumed to be biracial. And Boris's brother might experience more ?s about his ethnic makeup.

.

A lof of multiracial identified and biracial people would also be considered 'sons/daughers' of he black community. These identities are not about denial or distance from their African ancestry.

But Prince genetically/biologically is still very visibly 'mixed'. So what I mean is if you remove the celebrity from Prince, and he is just Skipper whether in America or abroad his ethnic make up is still a blend. He is not his European ancestors, he is not his African ancestors. Like a lot of others throught his bands/camp.

.

How Prince would be perceived in Brazil, is actually very much a part of it. Because again, when we cross boarders of lands and nations the idea of 'androgeny' is constantly apparent. Prince didn't just stay in the USA. And again there is a difference in biology/nature and socio-political labelling.

.

I have a friend who is Italian/Sicilian, and he does not identify as white, he checks the other box and writes in Italian/Sicilian, has a strong identity there. He understands what 'white' means and where it comes from and how under that label his people are on a lower catagory. And has an ethnic androgeny that get's him mistaken for Arabic, Cuban, Mexican and even biracial(euro-african).
.

The topic of androgeny isn't so much about how the person identifies but how they are perceived by people:individuals communities or governments. And this brings up questions of FREEDOM. So even this topic about 'homo eroticism' of his body ..of work. Is us looking at and hearing through our perceptions as well as very obvious things.
.
Like when I look at that 1992 performance 'that looks like the Game Boyz and Prince butt humping' I don't know what I'm actually seeing. I don't understand it's place in the performance of the song, what was the intentions etc

.

The topic in general is fascinating to me. And to a lot of others.

.

Jerome Benton has done a few interviews(one recently posted in Associate Artists forum) about UTCM. I don't think anyone has straight out talked about the 'homoeroticism' in the movie. or assumed homoeroticism? Is it our projection that we see or was it intentional?

.

Gray areas are very troubling for people. We need it spelled out and posted in Black and White. Gender Roles defined -he takes out the trash she washes the dishes. Either or Or. Good or Evil etc and the world really isn't like that.

.

Gray areas cause confusion and anger. People ridicule laugh at or persecute people who live in gray areas or ask questions about gray areas.
.
When we think of the Vegas Shooter. It is fucking up a lot of peoples thought processes.
We have to understand WHY and find the origin of evil that made him do what he did. People are calling it the result of SIN or Mental Illness or some Politically motivated move. They have to look into the background to find out what was happening to make him do this because as of yet he has no known criminal history.

.

Bisexuality is troubling to straight and gay communities.

.

we need people to be easily pigeonholded, easily defined so we can easily react or respond.

.
I'm glad Prince put that photo on the cover of the Lovesexy album. To this day I still talk to guys who are Prince fans who are troubled by the image. And even angered by it.

Asenath0607 made a point. None of this really changes that. I am aware of race mixing. So, is Prince a son of the black community in your eyes? Both of his parents identified as black. Are you saying he himself did not identify as black because of that interview?

All that I dealt with and as deep as I went and that is all you have? lol

.

I've dealt with, turned over, dissected, tried on the labels the opposites, people watched others wearing them, trying to make them fit, trying to force others into them... they don't flow well with my spirituality or my desire to be in harmony with nature.

.

You want an either/or, up/down, left/right response

.

I'm not dealing with defined socio-political labels.
I'm talking about fluidity of views and questioning labels.

Also I mentioned that ambigious tends to deal with how we are viewed by various sources peoples and media.

people should always question and ask why. Prince did.
In that same interview he was talking about society and religion. And praised muslim societies saying it is pretty much defined for you and set. Which takes me to the song TURN ME LOOSE, & CAUSE & AFFECT where he shakes it up saying:-got a taste for sin. the latter is a great example of him just questioning and reviewing.
Some of the things like talking about women liking the burquas was a bit iffy. But the interview just reminds me that Prince questioned. And we should too.

.

.

but of course he is a 'son of a 'black' community' so am I and so much more

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

All that I dealt with and as deep as I went and that is all you have? lol

.

I've dealt with, turned over, dissected, tried on the labels the opposites, people watched others wearing them, trying to make them fit, trying to force others into them... they don't flow well with my spirituality or my desire to be in harmony with nature.

.

You want an either/or, up/down, left/right response

.

I'm not dealing with defined socio-political labels.
I'm talking about fluidity of views and questioning labels.

Also I mentioned that ambigious tends to deal with how we are viewed by various sources peoples and media.

people should always question and ask why. Prince did.
In that same interview he was talking about society and religion. And praised muslim societies saying it is pretty much defined for you and set. Which takes me to the song TURN ME LOOSE, & CAUSE & AFFECT where he shakes it up saying:-got a taste for sin. the latter is a great example of him just questioning and reviewing.
Some of the things like talking about women liking the burquas was a bit iffy. But the interview just reminds me that Prince questioned. And we should too.

.

.

but of course he is a 'son of a 'black' community' so am I and so much more

I think you may be asserting your own story upon Prince. And constructing what he was to you perhaps on the fan base at large. And because you feel deeply connected to the strength he gave to your Reality that it must be so for all. His mystique was powerful and provided Solace in many ways to us. But your view isn't the final say for all. Be more open to that, perhaps. [Edited 10/7/17 13:48pm]

What story did I insert?

Most of what I've said was general questioning of society and WE all think and construct things

.

and I'll say it yet again most opinions about what is androgynous is based on the opinions of the individual and how we are either open or biased to what we see.

.

I cannot construct what he was to me on the fan base at large.

Again what story did I insert onto Prince?

.

All I gave were example of general questioning of life and identities and some that show Prince doing the same.
.
I never gave conclusion. I also do my homework on this.

And I'll say again 'gray areas make people uncomfortable'

.

Are you a female fan or male fan?
Do you think your gender and sexuality influence what you see as far as who Prince is?

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I have issue with the guessing millions of peoples ideas and mindsets based on a 'racial' label. And that is just never workable. This is not an emotional reaction just a factual.

You open up a few questions. Is there 1 black community? are there more and how do they differ by beliefs: political, family, religious, social etc? Who and where is this 'bosom' community? And who get's to decide?

There are people even who do not identify as Black, but as African-American and don't think they are the same nor synonymous. In the late 70s early 80s my family were connected with a 'sankofa' who lead a large community who was very defined in the difference between a black identity and an African american identity and what they meant.

It as Tony M who is on record by people in the band saying Prince wasn't 'black' enough and that he was going to shove black down that ni&&as throat. Now that is racially pornographic all by itself.

.

Yes people knew he was a man. But the femininity is also very clear. There is no way to deny that.

And crazy Little Richard at the PR premiere with his bible preaching to Prince to change or repent.
Most of the guys I know who had extreme trouble with the Lovesexy cover where Black.

You would have to take a pole to get a real gauge on if 'black people' saw him as less feminine than 'non black' people.

.

Talk to Casey Terry(Mazarati) and Raphael Sadiq from Tony Toni Tone about it when they were being made over by Prince.

.

And as early as 1990 Robin Power was the first person of color that I'm aware of that talked extensively about Prince's 1/2male 1/2female

.

not to mention Prince inserting it throught his music and talking about it on the Oprah interview in 1996 way before Wendy or Lisa talked about it in the 2000s

Morris Day also made comments about Prince's 'androgeny' not to mention other female associates/lovers who have talked about sex with Prince is like sex with a woman.

.

Also a lot of black people are not Prince fans of course. So they are not going to be more supportive in conversations of Prince.

.

I will also say, both genders have different reasons in downplaying Prince's sexual or 'gender' androgeny. Women fans will do it because a lot see Prince as a fantasy lover. (straight male fans are not looking at Prince romantically) So it is a different kind of troubling for women fans, and harder to look at it unbiased.

This notion that women can't state what we feel because we are clouded by the desire to be his lover, I wish you would pleas stop asserting as fact. You never Leave a question of possibility of "perhaps". It is always stated as just "so" Whenever you post such. This is not the case for me. I can now see what others see, but it wasn't the case for me, I didn't want to be his lover. you can't speak for all women in this regard no more than I can for the entire black community. Please note above how your statement reads as if you are sure that is the approach His female fans are operating from.

If we are going to have an adult mature conversation, you cannot twist my words.

I never said women cannot state what you feel because you are clouded by the desire.
No where did I say that. I did say that both genders have different reasons in downplaying this.
That does not mean everyone, especially if they don't mentally or emotional fall into that space.
BUT from years of being a Prince fan and connecting to and speaking with both genders it is a fact.

You've seen it on this board and others (female) fans who latch onto a particular female Prince associate. Some create bigger images of the love affair, other go to the extreme of what looks like hate. Most male fans are not doing that to female or male associates.

You have to conclude I'm being open to discussion.
or there is no reason to continue.

To anyone that wants to take a real factual stab at it.

A. Homoerotic definition:
B. Examples of regular homoerotic vibes:
1. In Prince the individual:

2. In Prince's songs:

3. In Prince's videos:

4. In Prince's live shows:

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

What story did I insert?

Most of what I've said was general questioning of society and WE all think and construct things

.

and I'll say it yet again most opinions about what is androgynous is based on the opinions of the individual and how we are either open or biased to what we see.

.

I cannot construct what he was to me on the fan base at large.

Again what story did I insert onto Prince?

.

All I gave were example of general questioning of life and identities and some that show Prince doing the same.
.
I never gave conclusion. I also do my homework on this.

And I'll say again 'gray areas make people uncomfortable'

.

Are you a female fan or male fan?
Do you think your gender and sexuality influence what you see as far as who Prince is?

Please note I said "I think" and "perhaps". I never said that my statements Were definitive descriptors of u. I didn't pigeonhole you I said what I think Are possibilities.

maybe just talk about the information we are sharing and not the persons character? I just shared things to try to get a closer view of how WE I continued to insert WE into this, view androgeny in various forms in this world.

Some people think 'It's just nonsense.' I don't. Because I don't think in black n white. So for some people we will be at odds. As I said earlier, some people need that either/or way of life. I see that there are more shades of gray to this world.

It is what it is at this point. What will be will be...

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:

Asenath0607 made a point. None of this really changes that. I am aware of race mixing. So, is Prince a son of the black community in your eyes? Both of his parents identified as black. Are you saying he himself did not identify as black because of that interview?

All that I dealt with and as deep as I went and that is all you have? lol

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I've dealt with, turned over, dissected, tried on the labels the opposites, people watched others wearing them, trying to make them fit, trying to force others into them... they don't flow well with my spirituality or my desire to be in harmony with nature.

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You want an either/or, up/down, left/right response

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I'm not dealing with defined socio-political labels.
I'm talking about fluidity of views and questioning labels.

Also I mentioned that ambigious tends to deal with how we are viewed by various sources peoples and media.

people should always question and ask why. Prince did.
In that same interview he was talking about society and religion. And praised muslim societies saying it is pretty much defined for you and set. Which takes me to the song TURN ME LOOSE, & CAUSE & AFFECT where he shakes it up saying:-got a taste for sin. the latter is a great example of him just questioning and reviewing.
Some of the things like talking about women liking the burquas was a bit iffy. But the interview just reminds me that Prince questioned. And we should too.

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but of course he is a 'son of a 'black' community' so am I and so much more

Am curious as to why you added this visual. What am I in love with that I need to give up for the pleasures of letting go of a previously cherished idea? I hope it isn't critical, practical thinking - we all need that. Even if there is fake news, everything ain't fake news.

poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

All that I dealt with and as deep as I went and that is all you have? lol

.

I've dealt with, turned over, dissected, tried on the labels the opposites, people watched others wearing them, trying to make them fit, trying to force others into them... they don't flow well with my spirituality or my desire to be in harmony with nature.

.

You want an either/or, up/down, left/right response

.

I'm not dealing with defined socio-political labels.
I'm talking about fluidity of views and questioning labels.

Also I mentioned that ambigious tends to deal with how we are viewed by various sources peoples and media.

people should always question and ask why. Prince did.
In that same interview he was talking about society and religion. And praised muslim societies saying it is pretty much defined for you and set. Which takes me to the song TURN ME LOOSE, & CAUSE & AFFECT where he shakes it up saying:-got a taste for sin. the latter is a great example of him just questioning and reviewing.
Some of the things like talking about women liking the burquas was a bit iffy. But the interview just reminds me that Prince questioned. And we should too.

.

.

but of course he is a 'son of a 'black' community' so am I and so much more

Am curious as to why you added this visual. What am I in love with that I need to give up for the pleasures of letting go of a previously cherished idea? I hope it isn't critical, practical thinking - we all need that. Even if there is fake news, everything ain't fake news.

I'm working on a Vanity 6 -Prince piece and I use this cards to help me break out of creative restrictions. I posted it in the arts forum, not done yet though

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Um a few of my posts talks about looking at things inbetween black - white ranges(not racial) just opposites ie There are more parties than Democrats and Reblicans in the USA but most Americans seem to be stuck in a comfort zone even if it gives us Trump ..ouch or the Good vs Evil actions Male vs Female 'roles' People who think because Prince is such a 'pretty man' and likes to dress in various styles of extrav that makes him gay, that we live in a nation that uses race like a religion, that the world which gives us 1000s of ethnic differences we have to try to box them into 4 races etc.

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interestingly I have a Prince fan friend who we get into these deep conversations about Prince music. He is African-American southern with a strong church background. It influences how he sees thing. We never fight about anything, but we both LOVE Computer Blue. From his take they must have been messing with something in order to go musically/lyrically where Computer Blue went.
I disagree and say it is all about breaking out of your mental/social/racial/religious barriers. And being in such a vaccume of music that they were in Computer Blue Power Fantastic etc came 'naturally' 'don't need no reefer don't need cocaine, purple music does the same to my brain and I'm hi' His take on the Lovesexy album and Prince's look goes really far into homophobia. This is where I also question, is it your projections onto the image or is it really 'gay'.

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yes we need critical and practical thinking, but even in that when problem solving, creating, business, excersizing etc we can restrict ourself in very black n white ideas

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So while I was talking in this discussion I just happened to have that card out helping me to think outside of restrictions to help me create something more unique

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some people respond extremely emotionally and sarcastically. And are not really looking for dialogue. And that is life. So until the next time this topic comes up lol and it will may U have peace and purple music to make your days happy.

purplefam99 said:

Asenath0607 said:

Talk about beating a dead horse. I am just not understanding this at all. Post in this thread are getting deleted, so this may also; but I swear I am not trying to be racist, or trolling, but are there any black/African American people on her who think that Prince was anything other than Black? What is this? It's just nonsense.

I would wager that to the majority of black America they never questioned Princes Apparent physical blackness. They knew he was black community. And when Prince Decided to "make it" a question, they community knew what he was doing then too. Some gave the side eye and wondered ok brother make your point but Watch yourself in how far you go to make it, some feel he went too far and left the bosom of his community in order to prove a singular point. His choice. No offense to the crossover audience at the time but they enjoyed this person who was perhaps denying his race to a degree and Prince was enjoying the success That was coming from those that were ok with him doing so. Black people knew he was black there was no wool over that communities eyes. I dare say that the androgyny theme was not one that most in the community wondered about. I believe the majority of the black community always knew he was a man and saw less femininity to the degree that his non black audience saw. ( when they perhaps did notice more overtly feminine symbols in his work/him i think for some in the black community it was less about, say the lovesexy cover and more about perhaps "dang prince your pushing too many agendas" even if they are for the good it was just perhaps too burdensome to watch him sort out gender issues when so many were still struggling with issues closer to the chest) For instance I've never heard any of his black associates ever mention how they perceived him as 1/2 male 1/2 female I've only heard him feminized by Wendy and Lisa. I know I may have missed a few other impressions that other have given my point is I've never heard his black colleagues say they thought he was a "girl" Now I'm not Wendy and Lisa bashing so please I don't want that to destroy the convo. Nor do I want to argue. So with that let's discuss. [Edited 10/7/17 10:32am]

Thank you, thank you, thank you

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said: I think you may be asserting your own story upon Prince. And constructing what he was to you perhaps on the fan base at large. And because you feel deeply connected to the strength he gave to your Reality that it must be so for all. His mystique was powerful and provided Solace in many ways to us. But your view isn't the final say for all. Be more open to that, perhaps. [Edited 10/7/17 13:48pm]

What story did I insert?

Most of what I've said was general questioning of society and WE all think and construct things

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and I'll say it yet again most opinions about what is androgynous is based on the opinions of the individual and how we are either open or biased to what we see.

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I cannot construct what he was to me on the fan base at large.

Again what story did I insert onto Prince?

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All I gave were example of general questioning of life and identities and some that show Prince doing the same.
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I never gave conclusion. I also do my homework on this.

And I'll say again 'gray areas make people uncomfortable'

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Are you a female fan or male fan?
Do you think your gender and sexuality influence what you see as far as who Prince is?

Really? Maybe they're non-binary

Why do we need to know who is male/female in this discussion unless they want to share or make a point about it? Doesn't make Prince any more or less homoerotic to the poster.

I believe Prince identified as a black man born in Minneapolis USA in 1958. He took off like a genius rocket in every possible direction from that starting point, exploring more aspects of life than most of us do. Personally I do not think that interview was him saying he wasn't black. My opinion.

[Edited 10/8/17 5:58am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

To anyone that wants to take a real factual stab at it.

A. Homoerotic definition:
B. Examples of regular homoerotic vibes:
1. In Prince the individual:

2. In Prince's songs:

3. In Prince's videos:

4. In Prince's live shows:

What is "regular homoerotic vibes"?

poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

To anyone that wants to take a real factual stab at it.

A. Homoerotic definition:
B. Examples of regular homoerotic vibes:
1. In Prince the individual:

2. In Prince's songs:

3. In Prince's videos:

4. In Prince's live shows:

What is "regular homoerotic vibes"?

It's time for your morning bath, sir
What would you like to bathe in this morning?
With all due respect sir, I think that...
I think that it might...
Oh, oh no
I don't want to play anymore
I don't want to play anymore

I'm tired now, this thread is exhausted now. I asked that question 3 pages back originally.

Purple music does things to my brain and I'm high
Step on it
That's right
Drive, you idiot
Faster, faster!

problem is people associate homo eroticism with blatant homesexuality

Problem is people need to stop associating gayness with preening, vanity and effeminacy. Dated 1971 John Inman/Danny La Rue type stereotypes.

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Because a guy sings with a high voice, wears make up and prances around in high heels, he must be gay really. Most gays I know are more fond of trackpants, body hair and talking in the deepest voice possible.

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Problem is also that being gay should no longer be an issue, in the progressive parts of the world, gays have been mainstreamed. Only in the Islamic, 3rd world and barbecue evangelical Christian areas like USA is it still a problem for small minded and small brained bigots.

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Nuff said!