cloveringold85 said:

purplefam99 said:

but if i went to the dr and told him my kid was spacing out a lot and doesn't hear me when i try to

get him out of it. the dr might start to reason that he may be having seizures. since we know he

was epileptic, it is a significant clue that morris said even that.

.

I used to know someone who would "space out" like that. They would not react to my voice. After a minute or two, they would come out of it.

.

I think we all "space out" from time-to-time, but that is not considered a seizure, i.e, I do that sometimes when I meditate or am in deep thought.

Yes, I know that every once in a blue moon (like maybe 4 to 6 times per year), I will space out for like 5 to 10 seconds in a manner that meets the criteria of transient vision loss (TVL). I always wonder what causes these brief episodes, but since I wear contacts, it's possible that the TVL is a result of my eyes being dry or the result of extended wearing of the contact lenses which deprives the eyes of oxygen. (I went to the optometrist back in October 2016 and my eyes are healthy.) More info about TVL here: http://emedicine.medscape...-overview.

speaking of....wasn't KJ Prince's bodygaurd in 1996 when Prince OD'd on "aspirin and wine"? (as he was the best man at P & M1's wedding)...AND KJ is the one that stated (as per warrant you cited) that "Prince was haospitalized for dehydraytion" in 2014 (&2015)...the same "excuse" KJ used initially for the emergency plane landing??? I see a connection here, and it's not a good look for KJ. If he was a "friend", he woudl've stepped aside and got Prince help, and quit sweeping things under the rug IF these co-ink-e-dinks ARE related. Like Prince said " a friend is never on your payroll".

laurarichardson said

"Having an underlying condition doesn't mean he couldn't also be struggling with addiction. "

I never said it did. He could have been dealing with both. Joint pain is a medical condition that could have lead to the addiction.

He had gone to see Dr. S twice and I do not see why he would not have gone to see other doctors under assumed names in the past. We know he was in the hospital twice for treatments in 2014 and 2015 per Kirk comments in the search warrents. We know he had 65k in medical expenses on his inventory report which we now know was not for an ambulance ride.

We simply have no way of knowing what medical issues or treatment he had been receiving and what links he would go to for protecting his privacy. He had enough money to go anywhere in the world and receive any treatement he wanted without the public knowing anything about it.

I think some of you forget the rich do not do things like the rest of us.

disch said:

One thing is that there was a mix of real and counterfeit drugs. We just know what the appearance of the drugs was based on the description in the warrants, not if they were the real thing.

-

I would assume Prince had a way he stored and organized his pills that made sense to him even if not to people like us (who only know bits and pieces about this stuff). I think there are things we could only know by asking him an unfortunately that's not an option.

-

Having an underlying condition doesn't mean he couldn't also be struggling with addiction. Frankly if he had cancer that wouldn't answer any questions I have; it would cause a lot more, namely: Why would he self-medicate a disease like that with illicit drugs rather than getting proper medical care?

206Michelle said:

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said: --It is a possibility. We do not know if this came from one pill or several but keep in mind he had in his possession legit pain meds. Why take these and not the legit ones? I still have not seen any news of a massive deaths of people in the Minneapolis area with this level of Fentenyl. Why was Prince the only one to have this level of the drug? It was deliberate or someone got him some bad stuff and he had no idea what was in these pills.

But then if he had no idea what was in the pills, it still begs the question why were his clothes on backwards and inside-out?

.

The cause of death on the death certificate is accidental overdose, so I accept that as the cause until evidence proves otherwise. (For the record, I would also rather believe that he died accidentally than by suicide, but if/when there is ever conclusive evidence to confirm that he deliberately took his own life, I will accept that evidence. If there is ever conclusive evidence to confirm that someone caused Prince's death, making it a homicide, I will accept that evidence also.)

.

My thoughts have generated the following explanation for how the deathly overdose could be accidental. Perhaps Prince had already taken some opiates/pain meds that did not contain any fentanyl, these opiates/pain meds were affecting his cognition, and in this altered or woozy state-of-mind, he put his clothes on backwards and inside-out. Then, at some point, he ingested the pills that had Fentanyl, got on the elevator, and...died. I'm not trying to speculate, just trying to make sense of the situation given the details/facts that I know.

[Edited 7/19/17 13:36pm]

I think this is an excellent point. We have been assuming that right before he died Prince was thinkig rationally, was quick on his feet, and had everything under control?

purplefam99 said:

allow me a quick daydream

andre's mama seemed to love him like her own, i wish she would have kept a line open with him

and said "sugar what is going on with you" or "baby you don't need to have sex with the WHOLE world" or "you can occasionally sit down and take off those Heels" ok i'm back.

.

Ha-ha!

.

Well, as we all know, Prince did not have the best upbringing. His own Mother gave him a porno magazine when he was just a child. His Father ruled with a tight fist. He left home at age 12?

.

He overcame a lot of obstacles in spite of his traumatic childhood. He had a God-given talent and used it, instead of wasting it away and becoming some bum. Thank God!!

206Michelle said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I used to know someone who would "space out" like that. They would not react to my voice. After a minute or two, they would come out of it.

.

I think we all "space out" from time-to-time, but that is not considered a seizure, i.e, I do that sometimes when I meditate or am in deep thought.

Yes, I know that every once in a blue moon (like maybe 4 to 6 times per year), I will space out for like 5 to 10 seconds in a manner that meets the criteria of transient vision loss (TVL). I always wonder what causes these brief episodes, but since I wear contacts, it's possible that the TVL is a result of my eyes being dry or the result of extended wearing of the contact lenses which deprives the eyes of oxygen. (I went to the optometrist back in October 2016 and my eyes are healthy.) More info about TVL here: http://emedicine.medscape...-overview.

.

Yes, I have heard of that before (TVL). I think people space-out/daydream ocasionally, which is common. Sometimes, when I am having a stressful day, I just need to take some time out and put it all into perspective. The Org can make us all a little "spacey" too! LOL

precioux said:

speaking of....wasn't KJ Prince's bodygaurd in 1996 when Prince OD'd on "aspirin and wine"? (as he was the best man at P & M1's wedding)...AND KJ is the one that stated (as per warrant you cited) that "Prince was haospitalized for dehydraytion" in 2014 (&2015)...the same "excuse" KJ used initially for the emergency plane landing??? I see a connection here, and it's not a good look for KJ. If he was a "friend", he woudl've stepped aside and got Prince help, and quit sweeping things under the rug IF these co-ink-e-dinks ARE related. Like Prince said " a friend is never on your payroll".

laurarichardson said

"Having an underlying condition doesn't mean he couldn't also be struggling with addiction. "

I never said it did. He could have been dealing with both. Joint pain is a medical condition that could have lead to the addiction.

He had gone to see Dr. S twice and I do not see why he would not have gone to see other doctors under assumed names in the past. We know he was in the hospital twice for treatments in 2014 and 2015 per Kirk comments in the search warrents. We know he had 65k in medical expenses on his inventory report which we now know was not for an ambulance ride.

We simply have no way of knowing what medical issues or treatment he had been receiving and what links he would go to for protecting his privacy. He had enough money to go anywhere in the world and receive any treatement he wanted without the public knowing anything about it.

I think some of you forget the rich do not do things like the rest of us.

WOW, great post precioux...so KJ DID have an unconscious Prince in his arms at least THREE TIMES that we know of!!! and he kept his mouth shut and kept cashing his checks. What a friend.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

206Michelle said:

Yes, MoBettaBliss, I totally agree. It's one thing for someone use drugs and simultaneously glorify the use of those drugs...that is an issue. Prince never glorified drug use. Addiction is a disease. People who are addicted or abusing need treatment and support, not ridicule.

I believe this fear of ridicule and embarassment over the situation he found himself in was a factor in his death. He couldn't deal with being outed as a druggie (and this had already started after Moline); because of his control issues, he never would gone to a lock-down rehab facility; because of pride/dignity and the realization that he may not have treated those in his life with the care and loyalty they deserved...he 'couldn't' call up Sheila or Dez or anybody and ask for help...he had limited options, perhaps even more limited by underlying organ damage only the ME would be able to confirm. At the end, he was alone in more ways than one. IMO, one fitting memorial to his memory would be if the family would admit the truth, help make PP both a center for music and dance and celebration AND drug awareness so we can add another wonderful thing that came out of his presence here on earth.

Yes, I agree with you that he had a hard time seeking help. I wonder if he was fearful of or felt shame about going into rehab because of the possibility of negative press coverage. Consistent with his control issues, he was so private, but if he went into rehab, it's likely that such information would not have remained private or within his control.

.

I believe that there were plenty of people who would have helped Prince, had he reached out to them. He helped Tyka with rehab, so I think he knew a little bit about the process.

.

Why do you think that he couldn't call up Sheila E. or Dez and ask them for help? I would like to believe that if he had asked them for help, that they would have helped him. There are any number of people whom he could have asked for help. Prince spoke to Will Smith on April 20th...Prince could have asked Will for help. He could have asked Judith Hill, Damaris Lewis, or Tamron Hall. He could have asked Kirk J. He could have asked Van Jones. He could have asked Tyka or one of his other siblings. He could have asked Kim Berry or Shelby J. He could have asked Mayte or Mani. He could have asked Wendy, Lisa, Dr. Fink, or Bobby Z. He could have asked John or Yaritza Blackwell. He could have asked Larry or Tina Graham. He had millions of fans, some of whom came to events at Paisley Park. He could have asked one of them for help. He could have asked a doctor for help.

.

There are many people whom he could have asked for help, but as far as I know, he didn't seek out help. IT IS DIFFICULT TO HELP SOMEONE WHO REFUSES TO SEEK HELP OR REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE/SHE HAS A PROBLEM. Some states have laws that allow family members to force a person into rehab if the person has an addiction, but I don't know if Minnesota had this kind of law on the books in early 2016. All of that being said, I don't buy the argument that he didn't have anyone to whom he could turn for help.

206Michelle said:

But we do not know if this was the situation.

206Michelle said:

--There are test they can give you to see what is going on. Remember this is a man who say he heard music in his head 24 hours a day so something odd was going on in that head of his.

cloveringold85 said:

I have a cd of an interview he gave in London back when he was about 20 where he states he went through his mother's stuff being nosy and found the porn. He also states he ran away, not that he got kicked out of anyone's house. If I drive long distance by myself I like to listen to it in my car, his voice is so sexy and sweet at the same time.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

KJ was a drummer back in 96. What is it with you and this idea that KJ was carrying Prince around in his arms all the time?

In regards to the last "conspiracy" thread..it had only been active for a few days maximum, as it only had 3 or 4 pages to it. There was no ugliness or name calling. What DID happen was a "new" poster (registered 6/21/17) by the screen name "prizefight" came on board and was supposedly an insider, this person was "livid of the narrative" and was tired of the lies that supposedly the associates were stating and wanted to "set the record straight"...tgen for NO REASON the thread was "pulled for modification" as one mod stated. Guess what? It doesn't take a MONTH to modify 3 pages of posts. I even orgnoted the mods...nothing, and it still NOT up. My theory is the mods knew EXACTLY who prizefight was (as prizefight personally told me she "knew a mod" prior), the mods freaked out and yanked it. So much for "freedom of speech" around here. I even went back and re-read the "rules" for posting and NOT ONE rule had been broken by anyone on the new, 3 page thread. Not even so much as a curse word. So, you tell me...because I don't think it's a coincidence-seems to me someone was "getting too close to the truth",and as long as we're chasing our tails in circles, everything is A.O.K....someone pipes that may actually have been close to the situation and *POOF*..it disappeares.smdh

disch said:

cloveringold85 said:

No,no,no...lidocaine was part of the "cocktail" of illicit pill. Rubbing it on your skin will not show up on a tox report. From what I've read, even though lidocaine is not made for oral consumption, it is used as a cheap filler in these illicit drugs

Yeah the very vague info about that 2014/5 hospitalization apparently came from Kirk. Per the warrant: "Prince had gone to the Hwy 212 Medical Center (Ridgeview Hospital) for an illness in 2014 or 2015. Johnson told Detective Wagner that Prince received fluids during his visit." So that doesn't really tell us anything ("fluids" could be basically anything, including medication).

-

As for any other medical treatments, all we know for sure is 2 visits with Dr S in the couple weeks before his death. Anthing else hasn't been revealed. We know he had joint surgery in 2010 (probably 2 surgeries given the 2 scars in autopsy summary), but we don't know if the surgery successed or failed, and what joint issues he was dealing with after that. (KJ apparently told detectives that the Prince's first Dr S appointment was for "hip pain," but it's really hard to know if that was the true/whole story; the medications prescribed that day in Kirk's name that were found in Prince's possession were an anti-nausea drug and vitamin d).

-

So there's a lot we don't know -- just that there's no public record of ongoing treatment for anything in recent years. That doesn't mean it's not possible he wasn't getting some treatment somewhere, but nothing that's been reported so far would give us an inkling about that.

precioux said:

speaking of....wasn't KJ Prince's bodygaurd in 1996 when Prince OD'd on "aspirin and wine"? (as he was the best man at P & M1's wedding)...AND KJ is the one that stated (as per warrant you cited) that "Prince was haospitalized for dehydraytion" in 2014 (&2015)...the same "excuse" KJ used initially for the emergency plane landing??? I see a connection here, and it's not a good look for KJ. If he was a "friend", he woudl've stepped aside and got Prince help, and quit sweeping things under the rug IF these co-ink-e-dinks ARE related. Like Prince said " a friend is never on your payroll".

laurarichardson said

"Having an underlying condition doesn't mean he couldn't also be struggling with addiction. "

I never said it did. He could have been dealing with both. Joint pain is a medical condition that could have lead to the addiction.

He had gone to see Dr. S twice and I do not see why he would not have gone to see other doctors under assumed names in the past. We know he was in the hospital twice for treatments in 2014 and 2015 per Kirk comments in the search warrents. We know he had 65k in medical expenses on his inventory report which we now know was not for an ambulance ride.

We simply have no way of knowing what medical issues or treatment he had been receiving and what links he would go to for protecting his privacy. He had enough money to go anywhere in the world and receive any treatement he wanted without the public knowing anything about it.

I think some of you forget the rich do not do things like the rest of us.

[Edited 7/19/17 15:17pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

206Michelle said:

But then if he had no idea what was in the pills, it still begs the question why were his clothes on backwards and inside-out?

.

The cause of death on the death certificate is accidental overdose, so I accept that as the cause until evidence proves otherwise. (For the record, I would also rather believe that he died accidentally than by suicide, but if/when there is ever conclusive evidence to confirm that he deliberately took his own life, I will accept that evidence. If there is ever conclusive evidence to confirm that someone caused Prince's death, making it a homicide, I will accept that evidence also.)

.

My thoughts have generated the following explanation for how the deathly overdose could be accidental. Perhaps Prince had already taken some opiates/pain meds that did not contain any fentanyl, these opiates/pain meds were affecting his cognition, and in this altered or woozy state-of-mind, he put his clothes on backwards and inside-out. Then, at some point, he ingested the pills that had Fentanyl, got on the elevator, and...died. I'm not trying to speculate, just trying to make sense of the situation given the details/facts that I know.

[Edited 7/19/17 13:36pm]

I think this is an excellent point. We have been assuming that right before he died Prince was thinkig rationally, was quick on his feet, and had everything under control?

Yeah, the emergency hospitalization in Moline is clearly an indicator that something was wrong. The next day, he told fans at the gathering at Paisley Park to "save your prayers for a couple of days," but 5 days later, he's dead. Plus, Andrew Kornfeld was on his way to Minnesota to see Prince. Something was wrong. On top of that, Prince had serious control issues on top of trust/abandonment/attachment issues, all of which made it difficult for him to cope with the unpleasant realities of life. He was able to shelter himself from the realities of the world better than most people due to his wealth, living and working in the same building, and the fact that he was Prince...he could get what he wanted in most facets of life easier than most people.

.

I don't buy that the flu or dehydration was the main reason for the emergency landing and hospitalization in Moline. These could have been additional factors, but the evidence from the search warrants as well as the need for the Narcan shot in Moline makes it clear that Prince was abusing or addicted to painkillers/opiates. Perhaps there were other physical and/or mental health problems as well, although there are still many unanswered questions about what exactly those problems might be.

.

Having watched numerous recorded performances that he did, I think it's perfectly reasonable to suspect that his body was breaking down after many years of grueling performances, similar to what happens to some former athletes. I wonder if some of his past behavior that he exhibited and traumatic events that he experienced in his life --- the way he was a jerk to people at times, his divorces, his son's death, Denise Matthews's death --- as well as loneliness were also impacting his mental health and possibly contributing to some depression or depressive symptoms that contributed to the painkiller (ab)use/addiction [edited for grammar].

.

Like most others on this site, I would just appreciate some answers to my unanswered questions. I love the man. He impacted my life. I just want to know why his life ended as it did.

[Edited 7/19/17 15:34pm]

precioux said:

Agree with you totally but someone must be reporting to the mods, prizefight would not report himself. So who among us doesn't face the facts and runs and tells every time the thread is not centered around the old lady in the thread? Bye thread!

206Michelle said:

And he had two medications for anxiety in his bags so something was weighing heavy on his mind.

206Michelle said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I think this is an excellent point. We have been assuming that right before he died Prince was thinkig rationally, was quick on his feet, and had everything under control?

Yeah, the emergency hospitalization in Moline is clearly an indicator that something was wrong. The next day, he told fans at the gathering at Paisley Park to "save your prayers for a couple of days," but 5 days later, he's dead. Plus, Andrew Kornfeld was on his way to Minnesota to see Prince. Something was wrong. On top of that, Prince had serious control issues on top of trust/abandonment/attachment issues, all of which made it difficult for him to cope with the unpleasant realities of life. He was able to shelter himself from the realities of the world better than most people due to his wealth, living and working in the same building, and the fact that he was Prince...he could get what he wanted in most facets of life easier than most people.

.

I don't buy that the flu or dehydration was the main reason for the emergency landing and hospitalization in Moline. These could have been additional factors, but the evidence from the search warrants as well as the need for the Narcan shot in Moline makes it clear that Prince was abusing or addicted to painkillers/opiates. Perhaps there were other physical and/or mental health problems as well, although there are still many unanswered questions about what exactly those problems might be.

.

Having watched numerous recorded performances that he did, I think it's perfectly reasonable to suspect that his body was breaking down after many years of grueling performances, similar to what happens to some former athletes. I wonder if some of his past behavior that he exhibited and traumatic events that he experienced in his life --- the way he was a jerk to people at times, his divorces, his son's death, Denise Matthews's death --- as well as loneliness were also impacting his mental health and possibly contributing to some depression or depressive symptoms that contributed to the painkiller (ab)use/addicted.

.

Like most others on this site, I would just appreciate some answers to my unanswered questions. I love the man. He impacted my life. I just want to know why his life ended as it did.

I think this is a brilliant, comprehensive and very thoughtful summation. This is what I struggle with: because of his wealth and connections he could have gotten any kind of medical treatment he wanted in a wide variety of countries where his privacy would have been respected: WHY wasn' t he obtaining and using pharmacutical grade drugs, legit drugs??? One theory is that is that he WANTED to order/control his own supply which contained the UNUSUAL addition of lidocaine (as per his personal specs) so he could dose himsel in a manner other than orally (since he was throwing up a lot) and he wasn't a needle man.

moonsister said:

Agree with you totally but someone must be reporting to the mods, prizefight would not report himself. So who among us doesn't face the facts and runs and tells every time the thread is not centered around the old lady in the thread? Bye thread!

Well, we know it wasn't us, because we weren't here for about 7 Days.

laurarichardson said:

206Michelle said:

Yes, I know that every once in a blue moon (like maybe 4 to 6 times per year), I will space out for like 5 to 10 seconds in a manner that meets the criteria of transient vision loss (TVL). I always wonder what causes these brief episodes, but since I wear contacts, it's possible that the TVL is a result of my eyes being dry or the result of extended wearing of the contact lenses which deprives the eyes of oxygen. (I went to the optometrist back in October 2016 and my eyes are healthy.) More info about TVL here: http://emedicine.medscape...-overview.

--There are test they can give you to see what is going on. Remember this is a man who say he heard music in his head 24 hours a day so something odd was going on in that head of his.

I agree, Laura. Perhaps I should have been more clear why I mentioned transient vision loss. I was just offering it as an example of a phenomenon that can cause a person to "space out," since someone else mentioned instances of Morris (Day?) talking about Prince "spacing out" at times. The details about these "spacing out" episodes that Prince experienced are vague to me, so it's hard to know why they occurred. Prince had seizures when he was a kid, but that he claims that didn't have seizures as an adult. I mentioned TVL as an example of a reason why people may "space out."

Bodhitheblackdog said:

To add..during the 4/21/96 (coincidence or fate?) incident when Prince OD'd on aspirin and wine, Mayte found him, thought P was dead and "his bodyguard took Prince immediately to the hospital" in his vehicle (no ambulance). And when Prince came to, he ordered his bodyguard (KJ) to "grab the records"..so as there would be no paper trail of Prince's hospital stay.

PennyPurple said:

LOLOLOL

precioux said:

In regards to the last "conspiracy" thread..it had only been active for a few days maximum, as it only had 3 or 4 pages to it. There was no ugliness or name calling. What DID happen was a "new" poster (registered 6/21/17) by the screen name "prizefight" came on board and was supposedly an insider, this person was "livid of the narrative" and was tired of the lies that supposedly the associates were stating and wanted to "set the record straight"...tgen for NO REASON the thread was "pulled for modification" as one mod stated. Guess what? It doesn't take a MONTH to modify 3 pages of posts. I even orgnoted the mods...nothing, and it still NOT up. My theory is the mods knew EXACTLY who prizefight was (as prizefight personally told me she "knew a mod" prior), the mods freaked out and yanked it. So much for "freedom of speech" around here. I even went back and re-read the "rules" for posting and NOT ONE rule had been broken by anyone on the new, 3 page thread. Not even so much as a curse word. So, you tell me...because I don't think it's a coincidence-seems to me someone was "getting too close to the truth",and as long as we're chasing our tails in circles, everything is A.O.K....someone pipes that may actually have been close to the situation and *POOF*..it disappeares.smdh disch said:

I don't know, but I think the deletions are because those particular threads decended into name-calling, trolling, or just way off-topic stuff (for example there was a period I remember where there was a dedicatd thread just for "conspriacy theories" and everyone was supposed to keep such conversations there.)

-

I think it's similar stuff that's gotten some individual members banned or suspended for periods of time.

-

I for one would like it of those old threads could be locked but still accessible on the site. They are sort of a historical record of what some orgers were thinking during some very emotional times.

.

It's quite strange I don't understand that type of rationale, personally. I understand when threads get a little unruly; they get locked or deleted, but a lot of us have spent countless hours, conducting research and documenting things. I understand Prince's death is still an on-going investigation, but most of us here are completely harmless (at least I am). We are just here to have open, adult conversations. Nothing we discuss here hasn't already been discussed on the internet concerning Prince's death, so why the secrecy? I know the Mods are just doing their jobs, but a lot of people have left the Org out of frustration and due to the constant censorship. Anyways, that's my 2-cents.

laurarichardson said:

206Michelle said:

Yes, I agree with you that he had a hard time seeking help. I wonder if he was fearful of or felt shame about going into rehab because of the possibility of negative press coverage. Consistent with his control issues, he was so private, but if he went into rehab, it's likely that such information would not have remained private or within his control.

.

I believe that there were plenty of people who would have helped Prince, had he reached out to them. He helped Tyka with rehab, so I think he knew a little bit about the process.

.

Why do you think that he couldn't call up Sheila E. or Dez and ask them for help? I would like to believe that if he had asked them for help, that they would have helped him. There are any number of people whom he could have asked for help. Prince spoke to Will Smith on April 20th...Prince could have asked Will for help. He could have asked Judith Hill, Damaris Lewis, or Tamron Hall. He could have asked Kirk J. He could have asked Van Jones. He could have asked Tyka or one of his other siblings. He could have asked Kim Berry or Shelby J. He could have asked Mayte or Mani. He could have asked Wendy, Lisa, Dr. Fink, or Bobby Z. He could have asked John or Yaritza Blackwell. He could have asked Larry or Tina Graham. He had millions of fans, some of whom came to events at Paisley Park. He could have asked one of them for help. He could have asked a doctor for help.

.

There are many people whom he could have asked for help, but as far as I know, he didn't seek out help. IT IS DIFFICULT TO HELP SOMEONE WHO REFUSES TO SEEK HELP OR REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE/SHE HAS A PROBLEM. Some states have laws that allow family members to force a person into rehab if the person has an addiction, but I don't know if Minnesota had this kind of law on the books in early 2016. All of that being said, I don't buy the argument that he didn't have anyone to whom he could turn for help.

But we do not know if this was the situation.

We do not know if what was the situation? I'm not clear about the situation to which you are referring. Please elaborate.

precioux said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, he probably was. They also make a roll-on type thingy as well. My husband sometimes gets really bad back pains and has to use this type of ointment. As you know, they also make those cold/hot patch things too.

No,no,no...lidocaine was part of the "cocktail" of illicit pill. Rubbing it on your skin will not show up on a tox report. From what I've read, even though lidocaine is not made for oral consumption, it is used as a cheap filler in these illicit drugs

.

Yes, I know.

.

I said it was for "topical" use only (not to be ingested).

206Michelle said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I believe this fear of ridicule and embarassment over the situation he found himself in was a factor in his death. He couldn't deal with being outed as a druggie (and this had already started after Moline); because of his control issues, he never would gone to a lock-down rehab facility; because of pride/dignity and the realization that he may not have treated those in his life with the care and loyalty they deserved...he 'couldn't' call up Sheila or Dez or anybody and ask for help...he had limited options, perhaps even more limited by underlying organ damage only the ME would be able to confirm. At the end, he was alone in more ways than one. IMO, one fitting memorial to his memory would be if the family would admit the truth, help make PP both a center for music and dance and celebration AND drug awareness so we can add another wonderful thing that came out of his presence here on earth.

Yes, I agree with you that he had a hard time seeking help. I wonder if he was fearful of or felt shame about going into rehab because of the possibility of negative press coverage. Consistent with his control issues, he was so private, but if he went into rehab, it's likely that such information would not have remained private or within his control.

.

I believe that there were plenty of people who would have helped Prince, had he reached out to them. He helped Tyka with rehab, so I think he knew a little bit about the process.

.

Why do you think that he couldn't call up Sheila E. or Dez and ask them for help? I would like to believe that if he had asked them for help, that they would have helped him. There are any number of people whom he could have asked for help. Prince spoke to Will Smith on April 20th...Prince could have asked Will for help. He could have asked Judith Hill, Damaris Lewis, or Tamron Hall. He could have asked Kirk J. He could have asked Van Jones. He could have asked Tyka or one of his other siblings. He could have asked Kim Berry or Shelby J. He could have asked Mayte or Mani. He could have asked Wendy, Lisa, Dr. Fink, or Bobby Z. He could have asked John or Yaritza Blackwell. He could have asked Larry or Tina Graham. He had millions of fans, some of whom came to events at Paisley Park. He could have asked one of them for help. He could have asked a doctor for help.

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There are many people whom he could have asked for help, but as far as I know, he didn't seek out help. IT IS DIFFICULT TO HELP SOMEONE WHO REFUSES TO SEEK HELP OR REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE/SHE HAS A PROBLEM. Some states have laws that allow family members to force a person into rehab if the person has an addiction, but I don't know if Minnesota had this kind of law on the books in early 2016. All of that being said, I don't buy the argument that he didn't have anyone to whom he could turn for help.

I agree and as a point of clarification, I put 'couldn't' in quotes to try and imply that PRINCE felt, for whaever reason, that he couldn't reach out. You are right, he had many people who loved and would have helped him but I think his pride kept him from doing so.

206Michelle said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I think this is an excellent point. We have been assuming that right before he died Prince was thinkig rationally, was quick on his feet, and had everything under control?

Yeah, the emergency hospitalization in Moline is clearly an indicator that something was wrong. The next day, he told fans at the gathering at Paisley Park to "save your prayers for a couple of days," but 5 days later, he's dead. Plus, Andrew Kornfeld was on his way to Minnesota to see Prince. Something was wrong. On top of that, Prince had serious control issues on top of trust/abandonment/attachment issues, all of which made it difficult for him to cope with the unpleasant realities of life. He was able to shelter himself from the realities of the world better than most people due to his wealth, living and working in the same building, and the fact that he was Prince...he could get what he wanted in most facets of life easier than most people.

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I don't buy that the flu or dehydration was the main reason for the emergency landing and hospitalization in Moline. These could have been additional factors, but the evidence from the search warrants as well as the need for the Narcan shot in Moline makes it clear that Prince was abusing or addicted to painkillers/opiates. Perhaps there were other physical and/or mental health problems as well, although there are still many unanswered questions about what exactly those problems might be.

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Having watched numerous recorded performances that he did, I think it's perfectly reasonable to suspect that his body was breaking down after many years of grueling performances, similar to what happens to some former athletes. I wonder if some of his past behavior that he exhibited and traumatic events that he experienced in his life --- the way he was a jerk to people at times, his divorces, his son's death, Denise Matthews's death --- as well as loneliness were also impacting his mental health and possibly contributing to some depression or depressive symptoms that contributed to the painkiller (ab)use/addicted.

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Like most others on this site, I would just appreciate some answers to my unanswered questions. I love the man. He impacted my life. I just want to know why his life ended as it did.

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Prince was either in denial, or he did not want anyone to worry about him. Several people contacted him (Tamron Hall, Apples.....); and he told them all that he was "fine", and not worry. It's been documented that he was not feeling well those last few weeks; something was going on with his health, but I have a feeling that it was all tied to the "opiods"; because he wanted everyone to believe it was the Flu, but it could have been symptoms of withdrawal. I don't believe he was an addict, but I think he was taking meds for his pain, and it was having an adverse effect on his health. Very sad.

moonsister said:

206Michelle said:

Yeah, the emergency hospitalization in Moline is clearly an indicator that something was wrong. The next day, he told fans at the gathering at Paisley Park to "save your prayers for a couple of days," but 5 days later, he's dead. Plus, Andrew Kornfeld was on his way to Minnesota to see Prince. Something was wrong. On top of that, Prince had serious control issues on top of trust/abandonment/attachment issues, all of which made it difficult for him to cope with the unpleasant realities of life. He was able to shelter himself from the realities of the world better than most people due to his wealth, living and working in the same building, and the fact that he was Prince...he could get what he wanted in most facets of life easier than most people.

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I don't buy that the flu or dehydration was the main reason for the emergency landing and hospitalization in Moline. These could have been additional factors, but the evidence from the search warrants as well as the need for the Narcan shot in Moline makes it clear that Prince was abusing or addicted to painkillers/opiates. Perhaps there were other physical and/or mental health problems as well, although there are still many unanswered questions about what exactly those problems might be.

.

Having watched numerous recorded performances that he did, I think it's perfectly reasonable to suspect that his body was breaking down after many years of grueling performances, similar to what happens to some former athletes. I wonder if some of his past behavior that he exhibited and traumatic events that he experienced in his life --- the way he was a jerk to people at times, his divorces, his son's death, Denise Matthews's death --- as well as loneliness were also impacting his mental health and possibly contributing to some depression or depressive symptoms that contributed to the painkiller (ab)use/addicted.

.

Like most others on this site, I would just appreciate some answers to my unanswered questions. I love the man. He impacted my life. I just want to know why his life ended as it did.

And he had two medications for anxiety in his bags so something was weighing heavy on his mind.

moonsister, I forgot about the anti-anxiety meds. I found an article here with more information on the anti-anxiety medications. The information in the articles comes from the search warrants of PP.

.......

"Prince Investigation: Warrants Detail Pills Found All Over Paisley Park" by Tracy Connor, April 17, 2017, http://www.nbcnews.com/ne...k-n747371.

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The day before Prince's death, Schulenberg prescribed three drugs for him: clonidine, which is used to treat high blood pressure and attention deficit disorder, and the anti-anxiety agents Valium and hydroxyzine pamoate. Johnson picked them up from the pharmacy and claimed it was the "first time he had ever done something like that for Prince."

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Johnson told investigators he was "unaware Prince was addicted to pain medication." But a representative of the rehab Recovery Without Walls told detectives that Johnson had contacted them because the star was struggling with opiate use.

.......

cloveringold85 said:

206Michelle said:

Yeah, the emergency hospitalization in Moline is clearly an indicator that something was wrong. The next day, he told fans at the gathering at Paisley Park to "save your prayers for a couple of days," but 5 days later, he's dead. Plus, Andrew Kornfeld was on his way to Minnesota to see Prince. Something was wrong. On top of that, Prince had serious control issues on top of trust/abandonment/attachment issues, all of which made it difficult for him to cope with the unpleasant realities of life. He was able to shelter himself from the realities of the world better than most people due to his wealth, living and working in the same building, and the fact that he was Prince...he could get what he wanted in most facets of life easier than most people.

.

I don't buy that the flu or dehydration was the main reason for the emergency landing and hospitalization in Moline. These could have been additional factors, but the evidence from the search warrants as well as the need for the Narcan shot in Moline makes it clear that Prince was abusing or addicted to painkillers/opiates. Perhaps there were other physical and/or mental health problems as well, although there are still many unanswered questions about what exactly those problems might be.

.

Having watched numerous recorded performances that he did, I think it's perfectly reasonable to suspect that his body was breaking down after many years of grueling performances, similar to what happens to some former athletes. I wonder if some of his past behavior that he exhibited and traumatic events that he experienced in his life --- the way he was a jerk to people at times, his divorces, his son's death, Denise Matthews's death --- as well as loneliness were also impacting his mental health and possibly contributing to some depression or depressive symptoms that contributed to the painkiller (ab)use/addicted.

.

Like most others on this site, I would just appreciate some answers to my unanswered questions. I love the man. He impacted my life. I just want to know why his life ended as it did.

.

Prince was either in denial, or he did not want anyone to worry about him. Several people contacted him (Tamron Hall, Apples.....); and he told them all that he was "fine", and not worry. It's been documented that he was not feeling well those last few weeks; something was going on with his health, but I have a feeling that it was all tied to the "opiods"; because he wanted everyone to believe it was the Flu, but it could have been symptoms of withdrawal. I don't believe he was an addict, but I think he was taking meds for his pain, and it was having an adverse effect on his health. Very sad.

cloveringold85, I agree with almost everything you wrote here. I use the phrases "abusing or addicted to" and "(ab)use/addicted" (I meant to say (ab)use/addiction) because of the uncertainty of his relationship to the opiates/painkillers.

cloveringold85 said:

purplefam99 said:

allow me a quick daydream

andre's mama seemed to love him like her own, i wish she would have kept a line open with him

and said "sugar what is going on with you" or "baby you don't need to have sex with the WHOLE world" or "you can occasionally sit down and take off those Heels" ok i'm back.

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Ha-ha!

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Well, as we all know, Prince did not have the best upbringing. His own Mother gave him a porno magazine when he was just a child. His Father ruled with a tight fist. He left home at age 12?

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He overcame a lot of obstacles in spite of his traumatic childhood. He had a God-given talent and used it, instead of wasting it away and becoming some bum. Thank God!!

Thank God for that! He was such a blessing to so many.