zenarose said:

leec1 said:

The link is below to the Star Tribune article with the search warrants. On the 4/21/16 search warrant, Paisley Park is referred to as a crime scene.

http://www.startribune.com/read-the-unsealed-prince-search-warrant-documents/419620263/

If Im not mistaken the CC sheriff did not say that PP was considered a "crime scene" during the first news conference. That must have been determined after the fact. Again just because a search warrant is dated that doesn't mean it was granted and executed that day.

Please read the warrant and you will see it was requested and signed by a judge the same day it was requested: 4/21.

I think you would need to reseach police protocol to claim it was a "contaminated scene." I know I haven't resarched that myself (and I won't put time into that because I don't agree with the staged-scene conspiracy theories).

-

There is no evidence at all that people were freely wandering in and out of PP on April 21 between when the police arrived at 9:45 and when the search began at 2:34pm (8 minutes after the judge signed the warrant) in which the opioid stashes were found.

zenarose said:

leec1 said:

If Im not mistaken the CC sheriff did not say that PP was considered a "crime scene" during the first news conference. That must have been determined after the fact. Again just because a search warrant is dated that doesn't mean it was granted and executed that day.

Please read the warrant and you will see it was requested and signed by a judge the same day it was requested: 4/21.

[/quote I am going to email CCSO and ask. I see the first initial warrant being requested on scene when the 911 call was answered. Past that there were many non LE people at PP. Tyka and her husband to start. They turned PP back over to the family before a second search warrant was completed. In the mean time there was a service held at PP with many people there. Contaminated scene. I will stand by my research thus far. If I find that I am mistaken, I have no problem admitting that and give the correct info. [Edited 4/23/17 8:39am]

[Edited 4/23/17 9:30am]

After taking some time away and thinking about this more thoroughly, I'm not convinced Prince was an addict. The one thing no one is taking into consideration in all of this is Prince's personality. Yes, he believed in clean living. And yes, I think he was using pain medication. I can understand the medicines in different rooms of the house, and because of that, in different bottles.

Paisley Park is large building. Most people keep their pills in one place in their home, but most people don't have a home as large as PP. So it is possible that Prince kept pills in different spaces of the home, and that would necessitate putting them in bottles not otherwise used for those pills. "Here, I'll use this aspirin bottle, put some in it, and keep it in the laundry room. That way when I'm in that section of Paisley, if my pain becomes too bad, I won't have to run all the way to medicine cabinet."

Prince was all about control He controlled his image. He controlled his band mates. He controlled his music, so much so, that he fought the record company for years so that he could get that control back. Prince is not someone to ever lose control.

Now, since Prince had such control over his image, that means he can't show any weakness, and pain would be weakness in his eyes if it prevented him from doing what he loved. So I can see him confiding in Kirk and having Kirk fake some chronic pain in order to get the doctor to prescribe him pain medication and then giving that medication to Prince. Maybe the doctor suspected this, maybe he didn't. Only he knows.

But what would happen if the doctor decided that Kirk was malingering and cut off his pain medication? Kirk can't tell Prince, "Dude, the doctor won't give me any more." So, he started seeking them out in other ways to give to Prince. 1) I know it would break my heart to see Prince in pain, imagine how much more so if you were that close to him and 2) As much control as Prince liked to exert, Kirk might have imagined that he'd lose his job if he didn't get Prince the medication. So, maybe Kirk did the only thing he could think to do, seek those medications out through other means.

The fact that Prince was cutting up the medication, that's an indication of someone who is taking just a little more to help with breakthrough pain when the full dose didn't work. If he were an addict, he would not have stopped to cut up any pills. I've never seen an addict cut their doses.

Another fact, the doctor originally said he was prescribing medication for Prince in Kirk's name to protect Prince. That would say, either the doctor knew it, or the doctor only suspected it, and in the heat of the moment made that statement. A doctor cannot prescribe that kind of medication without seeing the patient. They can get into a whole world of hurt legally if they do that. That's why he has now backtracked and said he never prescribed any narcotics to Prince, in Prince's name or Kirk's name. He has no long-term records of ever seeing Prince, only the recent visits.

So, Kirk gets the pills illegally to help with Prince's pain. I doubt that Prince would look those pills up on the net, especially if he was in a bad situation pain wise and just wanted the pain controlled so he could get back to work. So he doesn't notice that some of those pills are no longer manufactured, and therefore would be illegal. Plus, if he thinks Kirk is still getting them from his doctor, he wouldn't be suspicious of those pills, thinking they were safe. It's possible the pills he took on the plane, were cut as a much higher dose than either Kirk or Prince knew and that's what caused the first situation. This suddenly starts making everyone close to Prince think he's addicted, thus their call to Dr. K and the emergency situation. This is Prince. Anything like this would be considered an emergency. Prince thinks everyone is being hysterical for no reason, thus him saying at PP, "When you hear news like this, wait a few days, save your prayers for a few days." To him, he just had a reaction to the medication for some reason. Skip forward to the 20th, and he's hurting real bad. He's been traveling a lot, performing a lot, wants to get his pain under control and the only way he knows to control his pain is by taking his medication. Only this time, the medication was cut with fentanyl.

I know all of this is susposition. But the fact is, Prince was in control of all aspects of his life and those around him, period. It is much harder for me to imagine Prince losing control like that. If he thought he was out of control (addicted or not) he would have sought out assistance long ago. I know that mindset. It's one of the reasons why he stayed away from other drugs, because you lose control of yourself. Prince was just not someone who would lose control.

disch said:

Yours is a very reasonsed analysis of what could have happened. To be honest with you, I never thought about several of the points you made. Thank you, Benni.

PennyPurple said:

I do not believe Andrew murdered Prince (as there are absolutely no moitve, means or opportunity that makes any cohererent sense).

-

I would also ask you and others to think about insinuating on the internet that a real person is a murderer. It may seem like entertaining "speculation" but this could really cause damage to a real person.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said:

Exactly. Andrews plane touched down at 6am. Everything we've heard said prince was dead for hours at that point. Whatever Andrew had in his backpack, however long it look him and others to locate princes body at pp had no causal relationship to princes death.

The warrant says Andrews plane arrived at 6 am. We really don't know if that is true but assuming it is Andrew could have gone straight to PP and had the fake pill and gave it to Prince. That is still 3hrs before they dialed 911 (6:30-9:45) Then he was pronounced @ 10:07 The Drs son had quite a lot of pills in envelopes and I still think he brought the fake hydrocodone pills laced with fentanyl...

[Edited 4/23/17 10:04am]

zenarose said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PennyPurple said:

The Dr. did nothing wrong, someone in Prince's camp called him. Why would they call him, when they have one of the finest rehab facilities right there MN? They should've got his ass in the car and took him there.

Yes Penny That is what stands out ..and for the reason I feel the way I do.

Again, IF Prince were dealing with all of this, Minnesota was home. It was where he felt safe and secure. You don't get treated at home. You don't want those bad vibes of whatever you might be dealing with, at home. You don't want your neighbors talking amongst themselves so that you never feel safe to go out of the home, riding your bike, as Prince, the neighbor, and thinking they may now forever see you as Prince, the rockstar who dealt with an addiction. You lose that safety and security.

But see my post above, I don't think he was an addict.

Lovejunky said:

benni said:

disch said:

Ihave no idea what "you tend to side with those and Prince is not one of those" means, but if you mean that I side with those that don't throw irresponsible murder insinuations against real people with absolutely not a shred of reason do to so, if that means that I am on the side of rigorous logic and facts as know them, then yes, I am proud that I am on "that side."

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said:

I do not believe Andrew murdered Prince (as there are absolutely no moitve, means or opportunity that makes any cohererent sense).

-

I would also ask you and others to think about insinuating on the internet that a real person is a murderer. It may seem like entertaining "speculation" but this could really cause damage to a real person.

[Edited 4/23/17 10:04am]

Your statement does not surprise me..you tend to side with those and Prince is not one of those.however the damage has been done to Prince and he is no longer here because of it. Andrew brought a backpack full of pills (see the warrant) illegally and yes it seems very likely he brought the other one off fake pill with him too.

disch said:

I do not believe Andrew murdered Prince (as there are absolutely no moitve, means or opportunity that makes any cohererent sense).

-

I would also ask you and others to think about insinuating on the internet that a real person is a murderer. It may seem like entertaining "speculation" but this could really cause damage to a real person.

I agree disch, just like the crazies that were out protesting yesterday at PP & went to the chef's restaurant.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

zenarose said:

Please also consider (forgive me) dressing a body in rigor. If they were distraught I don't think they could have brouggt themselves to do so and it would be time consuming as well.

That would indicate who ever dressed Prince that way was with him at the time he died.

Again, it hasn't been proven that anybody dressed Prince....

disch said:

I do not believe Andrew murdered Prince (as there are absolutely no moitve, means or opportunity that makes any cohererent sense).

-

I would also ask you and others to think about insinuating on the internet that a real person is a murderer. It may seem like entertaining "speculation" but this could really cause damage to a real person.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said: The warrant says Andrews plane arrived at 6 am. We really don't know if that is true but assuming it is Andrew could have gone straight to PP and had the fake pill and gave it to Prince. That is still 3hrs before they dialed 911 (6:30-9:45) Then he was pronounced @ 10:07 The Drs son had quite a lot of pills in envelopes and I still think he brought the fake hydrocodone pills laced with fentanyl...

[Edited 4/23/17 10:04am]

I agree disch. The Kornfields were called in to help, and that's all they were there for. There was no motive, means, or opportunity. People are looking for someone to blame, and unknowns are easier to blame than those that are known.

TopazGirl said:

PennyPurple said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

zenarose said:

Please also consider (forgive me) dressing a body in rigor. If they were distraught I don't think they could have brouggt themselves to do so and it would be time consuming as well.

That would indicate who ever dressed Prince that way was with him at the time he died.

Prince dressed himself. Some of the side effects of fentanyl overdose (whether accidentally or not) is confusion, nausea and vomiting, drowsiness, lightheadedness and dizziness.

I've had to take pain medication off and on since I was 17. There was a point where I was in so much pain and I couldn't remember if I had taken my medicine, so I took a dose. When it kicked in, I realized that I must have taken a second dose without realizing it, because I suddenly felt cold and clammy, nauseas, dizzy, and confused. Feeling that, all I could think was I needed to get to the bathroom and get sick, and I just grabbed whatever clothes I could find and threw them on in whatever fashion. Later, I realized I had my shirt on inside out. Prince was wearing a lot of clothes that you would just pull on and if he was feeling any of that, he wouldn't have paid attention to how he put them on. It is not a pleasant feeling.

PennyPurple said:

Shaolin325 said:

Does it really matter if Prince were an addict or not? He was taking pain pills, addicted or not, and ultimately one pill he took was laced. The focus should be on that pill or the pills that were laced and how they got to Prince. Prince's legacy will be fine. The Music will stand the test of time. Peace.

You are right to an extent. I think Prince would be very disappointed and hurt at the idea that people are saying he is an addict. And that's the only reason that it makes it important. His legacy will survive all this. And yes, they need to determine where the fentanyl laced pills came from. But out of respect to Prince, I think it's important for those that love him to really think about all they knew about him, and really view what they are putting out there, and whether it really reflects what and who Prince was. He was definitely about control and not someone that would lose that control. That will play into whether or not he was addicted. Ultimately, none of it will bring Prince back. It's done. Nothing will change the outcome. But whatever is determined now will be what goes down in history about Prince, will be the narrative that is told throughout history.

1Sasha said:

1Sasha said:

Shaolin325 said:

disch said:

PennyPurple said:

benni said:

Nothing in the warrants seems to indicate that anything was amiss in the way the police handled the Paisley Park building, at least to me.

-

Per my reading of the warrants, the police accessed Paisley Park twice to retrieve evidence. The first time -- and the only general building search -- was on April 21, per a warrant signed that day (that's this one: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...ndex-1.pdf ). That search, conducted that day just 8 minutes after the warrant was signed, yielded Prince's opioid stash.

-

The second warrant was issued on April 25, specifically to retrieve Prince's laptop computer (this one: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...ndex-3.pdf ). The computer was examined forensically by May 5, it sounds like.

-

So the only possible issue was the delay in retrieving his laptop, which wouldn't really have caused an issue because of the forensic examination by an expert (the chances that a person could delete somthing off a computer that a forensic expert couldn't retrieve are slim, and the most important info woundn't likely be on the computer itself but in emails which are stored in a remote server, as noted in a different warrant for those email server records).

-

So i'm not sure that the warrants show evidence of police "backtracking" or changing the investigation's focus, that I see anyway, nor do they show that "contamination" of the Paisley Park building would've been a factor in their invesigation.

kmama07 said:

disch said:

I believe the police strongly suspected almost instantly that this was an od death. - Why? Because per the April 21 warrant and "receipt, inventory and return" (this one: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...ndex-1.pdf ), the police found Prince's opioid stash on April 21. The detective on the scene, in that April 21 warrant request, had asked permission to "Collect any and all illicit narcotics that could explain the cause of the decedent’s death," along with "Any and all medications found within the address; ...narcotic related paraphernalia, including scales, narcotic residues, syringes;...any notes, ledgers, receipts, prescriptions, and other documentation that could explain the source of any medications and/or illicit narcotics discovered in the premises." The detective wrote that "Your Affiant was made aware by witnesses that were interviewed, that Prince recently had a history of going through withdrawals, which are believed to be the result of the abuse of prescription medication. Further, Your Affiant received information from interviews conducted, that Prince’s assistants had arranged a meeting between Prince and medical professionals to assess and address Prince’s medical concerns." - Police see Od deaths all the time and are likely familiar with the signs. An accidental od by someone struggling against an addiction IS a "simple" death in their worlds I'm sure. 1Sasha said:

IMO this was the death of an international icon. His high profile required extraordinary measures. The local police apparently thought this was a "simple" death: heart attack, aneurysm, something like that. I don't believe they thought it was an overdose at first. Then they got word - privately - from the ME's office that this looked like an overdose, and all hell broke loose. So they had to backtrack, call in the DEA and now in this compromised building the investigation had to essentially re-launch. That's what I think.

[Edited 4/23/17 8:29am] [/quote Disch...points well taken, but I also can see where 1sasha is coming from with the "backtracking". A lot of activity at PP between initial authorities being there and when they returned after memorial. I don't think anything was "staged", but can u derby day the thought of something being overlooked due to all the activity. (If that makes sense?) [Edited 4/23/17 10:53am]

[Edited 4/23/17 11:47am]