cloveringold85 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

cloveringold85 said:

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I respectfully disagree with you. Dr. K and his son both knew their actions were wrong. Dr. K could have said NO, I won't do this, but he went ahead and did it anyway. A doctor has every right to refuse to treat a patient. And, yes it was Prince's inner circle who are also at fault. They both are responsible.

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Case in point: I can hand you some heroin or other illegal drug, but does that mean you have to take it? Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm using that as an example to get my point across.

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Your answer to that question would hopefully be "No, of course I would not take the heroin if you gave it to me."

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It's like going to the plastic surgeon for the 50-100th time and the doctor says "No, you've had enough and I won't treat you".

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Simple as that.

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[Edited 4/23/17 14:30pm]

Yes and if Dr K really wanted to help he would have called 911 immediately or told whoever contacted him to do so. Not send his son on a plane with his backpack...

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Amen to that! I just cannot comprehend how a doctor could do that. I mean, I know if I had a sick relative, I certainly would not send some unqualified person to treat my loved one! No, no, no!!

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Exactly!!......how about call 911? Which none of them did in the days prior.

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:

No, they did not play a part. First, it is not Dr. K's fault the inner circle called someone out of state. Again, as I've said before, IF Prince were aware they were being called, you don't get treated in your home area (regardless of treatment facilities around). He felt safe in Chanhassen. This was his home. People saw him as Prince the neighbor, not Prince the rockstar. If he were treated close to home and people began to talk about it, he would not feel comfortable thinking they no longer saw him as Prince the neighbor, but would see him as Prince the rockstar with an addiction.

Second, it doesn't matter who they sent, the individual arrived too late and did not treat Prince. They did not make good choices in how to handle the situation but their choices had no bearing on what ultimately occured. And Andrew covered himself by stating the medication in his bag came from his own medicine cabinet, therefore, could be viewed as his own prescriptions. People are allowed to carry their medications across state lines.

Dr. K and his son just happened to be caught up with what ultimately occured by circumstance. They were not responsible and hold no responsibility for what happended.

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I respectfully disagree with you. Dr. K and his son both knew their actions were wrong. Dr. K could have said NO, I won't do this, but he went ahead and did it anyway. A doctor has every right to refuse to treat a patient. And, yes it was Prince's inner circle who are also at fault. They both are responsible.

.

Case in point: I can hand you some heroin or other illegal drug, but does that mean you have to take it? Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm using that as an example to get my point across.

.

Your answer to that question would hopefully be "No, of course I would not take the heroin if you gave it to me."

.

It's like going to the plastic surgeon for the 50-100th time and the doctor says "No, you've had enough and I won't treat you".

.

Simple as that.

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[Edited 4/23/17 14:30pm]

However, in this situation, the doctor (or his representative) would need to meet with Prince and discuss the situation with him to determine whether or not he would be appropriate for their treatment methods. Also, Prince would need to meet with them, to determine whether he felt their program was appropriate for him. In this type of situation, you don't turn down someone in need just from a phone call with an associate, you need to talk with the patient.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

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I respectfully disagree with you. Dr. K and his son both knew their actions were wrong. Dr. K could have said NO, I won't do this, but he went ahead and did it anyway. A doctor has every right to refuse to treat a patient. And, yes it was Prince's inner circle who are also at fault. They both are responsible.

.

Case in point: I can hand you some heroin or other illegal drug, but does that mean you have to take it? Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm using that as an example to get my point across.

.

Your answer to that question would hopefully be "No, of course I would not take the heroin if you gave it to me."

.

It's like going to the plastic surgeon for the 50-100th time and the doctor says "No, you've had enough and I won't treat you".

.

Simple as that.

.

[Edited 4/23/17 14:30pm]

However, in this situation, the doctor (or his representative) would need to meet with Prince and discuss the situation with him to determine whether or not he would be appropriate for their treatment methods. Also, Prince would need to meet with them, to determine whether he felt their program was appropriate for him. In this type of situation, you don't turn down someone in need just from a phone call with an associate, you need to talk with the patient.

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I think you are missing the point that Purple D, and myself were trying to make.

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The fact that Prince was most likely unaware of this intervention that was going to take place with Andrew K. on April 21, 2016 speaks in volumes. It tells me that Prince was not aware and he did not agree to this.

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The fact remains, there was no reason for Prince's inner circle to contact a doctor in CA, when there are plenty of qualified treatment centers and doctor's in Minneapolis.

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You totally overlook Dr. K. reputation. He's not a man of good character.

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Andrew had no business going to PP, as he was not qualified to speak with or treat Prince.

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It's about being ethical and moral, and they were both neither of those.

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It's very clear that what they did was very wrong, and could very well be the reason why Prince is no longer with us.

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[Edited 4/23/17 15:06pm]

NotACleverName said:

cloveringold85 said:

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:

However, in this situation, the doctor (or his representative) would need to meet with Prince and discuss the situation with him to determine whether or not he would be appropriate for their treatment methods. Also, Prince would need to meet with them, to determine whether he felt their program was appropriate for him. In this type of situation, you don't turn down someone in need just from a phone call with an associate, you need to talk with the patient.

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I think you are missing the point that Purple D, and myself were trying to make.

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The fact that Prince was most likely unaware of this intervention that was going to take place with Andrew K. on April 21, 2016 speaks in volumes. It tells me that Prince was not aware and he did not agree to this.

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The fact remains, there was no reason for Prince's inner circle to contact a doctor in CA, when there are plenty of qualified treatment centers and doctor's in Minneapolis.

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You totally overlook Dr. K. reputation. He's not a man of good character.

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Andrew had no business going to PP, as he was not qualified to speak with or treat Prince.

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It's about being ethical and moral, and they were both neither of those.

.

It's very clear that what they did was very wrong, and could very well be the reason why Prince is no longer with us.

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[Edited 4/23/17 15:06pm]

Regardless of whether Prince knew or did not know, the FACT remains they did not treat Prince, period. Also, whether Prince knew or did not know, they could NOT provide treatment without his consent. Therefore, they would have still needed to meet with Prince to discuss their program, make sure he was appropriate for their treatments, and he would need to listen to what they had to say to determine whether he felt like their program was appropriate to him. They cannot be held responsible for being called by his inner circle and them showing up at Paisley Park to discuss their program with Prince. That in no way contributed to his passing.

Again, you are overlooking what I've said several times. When you are high profile, as Prince is, you do not get treated in your hometown. People talk. Prince felt comfortable at home and would not have agreed to treatment at home. Why? Because people in Chanhassen viewed him as a neighbor. If he were to be treated, and people talked, he would stop being a neighbor and would start being the addicted rock star. Prince would NEVER have agreed to that.

And Andrew did have business going to Paisley Park to meet with Prince as a representative of his father's business. Now, he would not have had any business treating Prince, that's for sure. But to discuss his father's treatment facility and what they could offer Prince, then yes, he would have been qualified to give Prince the facts of his dad's business.

And ethics and morals aside, they did nothing wrong. They came when they were called. They never treated Prince. They arrived too late. It is NOT their fault the inner circle waited until days after the plane incident to call them for help.

Whether Prince knew or not, is beside the point. The point remains that before they could treat him, they would need to see if he was appropriate for their treatment, and he would need to be given the chance to make an informed decision about accepting treatment from them.

[Edited 4/23/17 15:18pm]

NotACleverName said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

... We were discussing the warrants in order and we were at Andrews warrant.. I agree Dr S has a lot of ??? To jump ahead.. I find it strange the 2 times P saw Dr S Prince seemed to feel sick ..on the 7th (P then had to cancel the first Atlanta concert, when he rescheduled on the 14th Dr S wrote Kirk and I think P a prescription) Then the last time was on the 20th... Many unanswered questions. As Clover said Dr K and Andrew broke the law . [Edited 4/23/17 14:33pm]

What I am pointing out is that there were plenty of oversights (or mistakes, whatever you want to call it) with regard to this entire event. I just don't understand how someone can accuse another person, that they don't even know, of murder. Boggles my mind. Andrew did not bring illicit pills to PP to kill Prince. He just didn't.

Right, I agree, NotACleverName. Andrew and his father had nothing to do with Prince's death. Prince was already gone before Andrew arrived. Andrew did not touch, treat, or force Prince to take pills. How Andrew got there, why, and what he brought with him is void because he did not treat Prince or even speak to the man. Any actions by Andrew Kornfeld has no bearing on why or how Prince died, so no, he did nothing wrong. Additionally, if Dr. Kornfeld doesn't have a good reputation (I did not say this, however, some are pointing this out), this is also void because neither he or Andrew gave treatment to Prince. There is no reason to call into question Dr. K's credibility as an addiction specialist and apply it to these arguments, in my opinion.

cloveringold85 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

cloveringold85 said: Yes and if Dr K really wanted to help he would have called 911 immediately or told whoever contacted him to do so. Not send his son on a plane with his backpack...

.

Amen to that! I just cannot comprehend how a doctor could do that. I mean, I know if I had a sick relative, I certainly would not send some unqualified person to treat my loved one! No, no, no!!

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Exactly!!......how about call 911? Which none of them did in the days prior.

I understand where you're coming from, cloveringold85, however, this is Prince we are talking about, and I think we all understand about "special star treatment". That is really what this comes down to, I believe.

benni said:

Prince WAS treated locally on April 20. Per this warrant, Dr S saw Prince on that day and prescribed him some medication. Perhaps that made others feel that Prince's situation was under control, at least enough to tide him over until the next day.

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Prince was an adult and still in charge of his own healthcare. I don't know how he could be forced to recieve treatment he didn't agree to, and we don't know what he was telling those around him about what he was feeling/doing.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

benni said:

When dr k was called prince was alive, but in grave condition, does not sound good, had he simply said "because of my location and the described condition of the patient, my best medical recommendation is to handle this locally, right now, I will make some calls". Also a person in grave medical condition is not going to any rehab, they are going to the hospital to get stabilized, then go to rehab. Since dr k said he would handle it, princes people waited for him and now we all know that was the wrong decision, prince dies while they were waiting for cali to get to Minnie. Based on what we know about the last few weeks of princes life he was not mentally capable of making sound decisions regarding his health, you know full blown o.d. Ect, so who cares what he wanted, get him to the f*cking hospital, save his life, and deal with the fall out later.

zenarose said:

I feel that Dr K was negligent from the start. When Dr.K got the call from KJ or whomever, if he TRULY thought at that moment P's life was in grave danger, he should have immediately placed a call to 911. That one fact "life in danger" should have been the ONLY consideration in how to proceed to save a life. Not who the person was or anything else. A HUMAN LIFE IN A GRAVE MEDICAL EMERGENCY. Instead he sends his son that is not a licensed Physician with a pack pack full of illegal drugs, the NEXT DAY. And may I ask if these drugs were Andrew's personal stash, how and why were they acquired?? Why would he intentionally and knowingly commit a crime....State and Federal?? The story makes me question if there even was an emergency. Otherwise I would think that a MD would surely follow the law and the Hippocratic Oath. Look at what he has to lose if prosecuted or sued. Why would he risk everything he owns?? Just my thoughts......😣 If Dr. k had called 911 ( if there was truly an emergency) P might be alive today. He mighta been super PO'd but alive. [Edited 4/23/17 15:54pm]

Why didn't Kirk call 911?

zenarose said:

I feel that Dr K was negligent from the start. When Dr.K got the call from KJ or whomever, if he TRULY thought at that moment P's life was in grave danger, he should have immediately placed a call to 911. That one fact "life in danger" should have been the ONLY consideration in how to proceed to save a life. Not who the person was or anything else. A HUMAN LIFE IN A GRAVE MEDICAL EMERGENCY. Instead he sends his son that is not a licensed Physician with a pack pack full of illegal drugs, the NEXT DAY. And may I ask if these drugs were Andrew's personal stash, how and why were they acquired?? Why would he intentionally and knowingly commit a crime....State and Federal?? The story makes me question if there even was an emergency. Otherwise I would think that a MD would surely follow the law and the Hippocratic Oath. Look at what he has to lose if prosecuted or sued. Why would he risk everything he owns?? Just my thoughts......😣 If Dr. k had called 911 ( if there was truly an emergency) P might be alive today. He mighta been super PO'd but alive. [Edited 4/23/17 15:54pm]

Dr. K did not make Prince wait until he could get there. Dr. K did contact Dr. S to intervene until he could arrive. It wasn't 911, but it was medical intervention nevertheless:

"After he was first contacted by Prince's representatives, Howard Kornfeld requested that a Twin Cities physician check on Prince and stabilize him, sources said."

Reference:

http://www.startribune.co...378051471/

PennyPurple said:

zenarose said:

I feel that Dr K was negligent from the start. When Dr.K got the call from KJ or whomever, if he TRULY thought at that moment P's life was in grave danger, he should have immediately placed a call to 911. That one fact "life in danger" should have been the ONLY consideration in how to proceed to save a life. Not who the person was or anything else. A HUMAN LIFE IN A GRAVE MEDICAL EMERGENCY. Instead he sends his son that is not a licensed Physician with a pack pack full of illegal drugs, the NEXT DAY. And may I ask if these drugs were Andrew's personal stash, how and why were they acquired?? Why would he intentionally and knowingly commit a crime....State and Federal?? The story makes me question if there even was an emergency. Otherwise I would think that a MD would surely follow the law and the Hippocratic Oath. Look at what he has to lose if prosecuted or sued. Why would he risk everything he owns?? Just my thoughts......😣 If Dr. k had called 911 ( if there was truly an emergency) P might be alive today. He mighta been super PO'd but alive. [Edited 4/23/17 15:54pm]

Why didn't Kirk call 911?

Exactly. It is not all up to Dr. K. I don't understand how Dr. K is ultimately responsible for all or a majority of this as some are suggesting.

I agree. And frankly, even if anyone had called 911, who's to say Prince would have agreed to be carted off in an ambulence? There aren't reports that Prince wasn't conscience and sentient on April 20 and I assume if he wanted to be in a hospital that day, he would have gone to one.

TopazGirl said:

PennyPurple said:

Why didn't Kirk call 911?

Exactly. It is not all up to Dr. K. I don't understand how Dr. K is ultimately responsible for all or a majority of this as some are suggesting.

TopazGirl said:

disch said:

I agree. And frankly, even if anyone had called 911, who's to say Prince would have agreed to be carted off in an ambulence? There aren't reports that Prince wasn't conscience and sentient on April 20 and I assume if he wanted to be in a hospital that day, he would have gone to one.

TopazGirl said:

Exactly. It is not all up to Dr. K. I don't understand how Dr. K is ultimately responsible for all or a majority of this as some are suggesting.

I agree also that Prince probably wouldn't have agreed to being carted off. Also, I doubt that Prince wanted to draw any more attention to himself given the previous OD.

disch said:

And the one thing people are not taking into consideration, is that Prince has the right to accept or refuse treatment. Working as a medical social worker, people have the right to self-determination. As for "grave medical condition" this is what Prince's representatives said, however, they are not medical people and if they honestly felt Prince was in that type of situation, they would not have left him alone. PERIOD. Obviously, they did not think that this was something that was imminent. If they had, they would have been baby sitting him that night and remained with him until help arrived.

Also, if they felt he was in grave medical condition, they could have gotten a "hold" on Prince if they felt he was a danger to himself. Dr. K did recommend someone local stabilize Prince and make sure that he would be stable until he could get to treatment. Dr. K followed the protocol in that regards. As far as he knew, Prince was being looked after by a local doctor until his representative could get there to discuss their facility and what they could offer Prince. Dr. S apparently met with Prince the 20th, prescribed some medication (and obviously it was not narcotics since he stated he never prescribed Prince any narcotics and the investigation was unable to find a prescription of narcotics for Prince), and felt Prince was stabilized and would be safe until Dr. K's rep arrived the next day.

why does this honestly need to be unsealed? Can't we focus on celebrating his life and music and not focusing on what happened?

benni said:

TopazGirl said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

TopazGirl said:

Dr. K did not make Prince wait until he could get there. Dr. K did contact Dr. S to intervene until he could arrive. It wasn't 911, but it was medical intervention nevertheless:

"After he was first contacted by Prince's representatives, Howard Kornfeld requested that a Twin Cities physician check on Prince and stabilize him, sources said."

Reference:

http://www.startribune.co...378051471/

That was not mentioned in the warrants, there has been a lot of misinformation in the media given by unnamed sources. Our local news even misspoke and said Dr S was on the plane with P

No, why would it be mentioned in the search warrants? They did not release information on interviews they did with those involved, which is where you would find that information, not in a search warrant.

GoneCrazy2016 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

TopazGirl said:

Dr. K did not make Prince wait until he could get there. Dr. K did contact Dr. S to intervene until he could arrive. It wasn't 911, but it was medical intervention nevertheless:

"After he was first contacted by Prince's representatives, Howard Kornfeld requested that a Twin Cities physician check on Prince and stabilize him, sources said."

Reference:

http://www.startribune.co...378051471/

That was not mentioned in the warrants, there has been a lot of misinformation in the media given by unnamed sources. Our local news even misspoke and said Dr S was on the plane with P

Dr. K was contacted the evening before Prince's death. Dr. S showed up the morning of Prince's death. He was apparently there to deliver test results. Dr. S was there because he was working with Prince. I think it might be safe to say that Dr. S could have been contacted by Dr. K. -- Dr. K. only had less than a day to speak to Dr. S and tell him to get his ass over there. In all appearances, Dr. S got his ass over there.

TopazGirl said:

benni said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

TopazGirl said: That was not mentioned in the warrants, there has been a lot of misinformation in the media given by unnamed sources. Our local news even misspoke and said Dr S was on the plane with P

No, why would it be mentioned in the search warrants? They did not release information on interviews they did with those involved, which is where you would find that information, not in a search warrant.

I wondered this too...whether or not that information had to be in the search warrant.