disch said:

I think at the end of his life, the thing that was killing him (and did kill him) was his opioid addiction. I don't believe he died of joint pain.

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In other words, his physical addiction to opioids had driven him to do various less-than-ideal things such as acquire black-market drugs and get a doctor to prescribe drugs in his friend's name. So it's hard to say what role hip pain played in the final stage of a situation where clearly lies and deception were sadly going on.

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No, why did he take that first opioid pill, whenever that was? Who knows? It certainly might have been physical pain. But whatever the reason for that initial exposure, by the end it had taken a different, tragic turn into addiction.

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And the whole "recreational use" thing is something I have trouble with. For some reason, some people are comfortable with with the idea of illicit use of opioids to self-medicate physical pain, but are repelled by illicit opioids to self-medicate emotional pain, which gets dumped into the "recreational use" bucket. But that's a debate that's happened many times here and not really part of this.

disch said:

The whole point is: We have no idea the veracity of the "hip pain" statement. The evidence is strong, however, that he was addicted to opioids and was struggling with that addiction and the suffereing that withdrawal was causing.


Babynoz said:
I'm confused. Are you implying that Prince was became addicted as a recreational user and not due to legitimate pain issues?

Thank you for clarifying. I certainly do not think anyone believes or has even implied that Prince died of joint pain though. It's fairly obvious and has been officially deteremined that the opiod problem is what killed him.

I think that in the term "self medicate", the keyword is medicate. Not really making a distinction between physical or emotional pain, because I think that recreational use is seperate from both. There's no shortage of people who take everything from opiods to cough syrup just for fun and I'm just saying that I doubt Prince was one of them.

In Prince's case I don't think people are lying about the pain. Regarding the veracity of the hip pain statement, the ME report cited scarring that is consistent with the reported hip issues and Billy Sparks confirmed in a TJMS interview that he did indeed have a hip procedure done out of the country.

disch said:

I agree -- and "comfortable with" isn't the right way to say it; I should have said something like "sympathetic to."

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The reality is, these meds were not meant to be taken, for any reason, not under a doctor's strict supervision. So ANY illicit use -- for physical pain or whatever reason -- deviates from how they're meant to be used.

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And to be clear (because I know I'll be told i'm a "junkie lover" or advocate getting "strung out" or whatever): I'm deeply sympathetic to anyone whose pain (physical or emotional) drives them to do self-destructive things. People should never end up feeling that risky, self-desctructive behavior is their only option for dealing with their pain and suffering, and they should have help available and not feel ashamed to reach out for it. But that's a social problem that is best suited for another thread.

paulludvig said:

I think it is simply because these meds are not meant to treat "emotional pain".

Sure, but self medicating for physical pain at least "resembles" legitimate use. These meds are not meant to be taken for "emotional pain".

purplepoppy said:

babynoz said:

Including the innocent who died from an accidental overdose of pills laced with fentanyl. Is that not sad enough?

I know, right.....smh.

rogifan said:

purplepoppy said:

Including the innocent who died from an accidental overdose of pills laced with fentanyl. Is that not sad enough?

I don't know what one has to do with the other. Lock Kirk up in jail if it makes you feel better. It isn't going to bring Prince back and it isn't going to stop the opioid crisis.

I think that is referring to some comments on this thread that seem to imply that the OD was somehow intentional or that he knew what the mislabeled pills contained.

I don't think I know everything -- but I'm flattered to know you think I do!

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But no, I do not believe that what he said about his a health issues pre-age-7 is relevant to 50 years later. And the idea that his treatment plan for his epilepsy was Dr. S prescribing him valium in April is ridiculous.

laurarichardson said:

Actually one of the horn players said on face book he was having seziure again this was discussed a while back. I love how you can discount what he had to say about his own health. Just think about how absurd that is. You realize that Epilepsy does not just go away forever? But you know everything right. said:

The seizure thing is a ridiculous theory. Prince telling some yarn about having seizures when he was a very small child (which I'm not even sure he ascribed to epilepsy, althrough he may have) hardly translates to having uncontrolled epilepsy at a 57 year old.

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Laura, you're the first one to repeat we should all listen to what his associates have to say. Well, what associate has ever said epilepsy or seizures as an adult was an issue for him?

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Valium is widely used for a number of reasons; epileptic seizure control is the least of it (and others here have repeatedly stated that valium would not be the drug of choice nowadays for epilepsy control).

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The whole point is: We have no idea the veracity of the "hip pain" statement. The evidence is strong, however, that he was addicted to opioids and was struggling with that addiction and the suffereing that withdrawal was causing.

BillieBalloon said:

PennyPurple said:

Laura...no Dr has mentioned that he was having seizures again, YOU are the one who has been putting that out there. And there is no way for you to even know that. Why would anyone have to address the epilepsy issue, when you are the one who is saying that was what his problem was. NO it wasn't. He was addicted to drugs. Somehow, someway he got street drugs which were laced with fentanyl.... that IS what killed him. Hell even when you say he was having pain, you are projecting. Because in all accuality you don't know any more then the rest of us.

Neal Karlen, journalist and friend CONFIRMED Prince had hip surgery around 2010. The pain was real, there's no projection

Quoted for emphasis.

Dibblekins said:

I don't know what we can know about his physical pain situation in 2016 based on him having surgery six years earlier. I'm not saying he didn't have physical pain, but we have literally no real information about that (and yes, I've read all the associates statements about this. Unless the associate was having direct, regular contact in the last several months of his life, I just don't know that they can shed a ton of light on what was going on at the very end).

babynoz said:

BillieBalloon said:

PennyPurple said: Neal Karlen, journalist and friend CONFIRMED Prince had hip surgery around 2010. The pain was real, there's no projection

Quoted for emphasis.

disch said:

Dibblekins said:

1Sasha said:

LIBRA said:

AP:

A court document says a doctor prescribed oxycodone for Prince under the name of the musician's friend to protect his privacy. Prince was 57 when he was found alone and unresponsive in an elevator at his Paisley Park home on April 21. Autopsy results showed he died from an accidental overdose of fentanyl, a synthetic drug 50 times more powerful than heroin. According to search warrants unsealed Monday, authorities searched Paisley Park, cellphone records of Prince's associates, and Prince's emails to try to determine where he got the fentanyl that killed him. The documents suggest Prince was struggling with prescription opioid addiction. One affidavit says Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg admitted he prescribed oxycodone for Prince in a Prince's associate's name "for Prince's privacy." A message left with Schulenberg's attorney wasn't immediately returned.

[Edited 4/17/17 7:10am]

Affidavit: Doc prescribed Prince opioids under friend's name

By AMY FORLITI, ASSOCIATED PRESS

.

The article states the following:

"It is illegal for a doctor to write a prescription for someone under another person's name."

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I also watched ABC News and the reporter, I believe it was Eva Pilgrim, also stated the same thing---that it's illegal for a doctor to write a prescription for someone under another person's name.

.

So I'm wondering now what will happen to Dr. Schulenberg. What kind of consequences will he face for his actions (prescribing drugs for Prince under Kirk Johnson's name)?

.

This whole situation is so sad. Addiction is a disease, not a character flaw. People who have addictions need medical intervention, counseling, or therapy, depending on what the circumstances are. The fact that the opioid pills were found in aspirin and other bottles indicates that Prince was trying to hide his addiction. Perhaps he was ashamed of his addiction.

The exact quote from Dr S' rep is: "Dr. Schulenberg never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince."

http://www.fox9.com/news/...9591-story

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IF that's true, perhaps Kirk convinced the doc to write a prescription for him (Kirk was his patient first, after all) and didn't tell the doc he planned to give the Rx to P.

laytonian said:

1Sasha said:

The New York Daily News is reporting that Dr. S'S lawyer claims he never wrote an opioid script either directly or indirectly for Prince.

. But read catefully. He is NOT saying that he did not prescribe drugs for KJ (that ended up at Paisley). . That's attorney-speak .

[Edited 4/17/17 16:07pm]

disch said:

Giovanni777 said:

Does anyone find it odd that Prince's handwritten lyrics to "U Got The Look" were in the suitcase with the pills? The suitcase labeled "Peter Bravestrong", which was allegedly his travel suitcase.

Yes, I find this circumstance to be odd, also.

laytonian said:

babynoz said:

disch said:

The exact quote from Dr S' rep is: "Dr. Schulenberg never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince."

http://www.fox9.com/news/...9591-story

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IF that's true, perhaps Kirk convinced the doc to write a prescription for him (Kirk was his patient first, after all) and didn't tell the doc he planned to give the Rx to P.

laytonian said:

1Sasha said: . But read catefully. He is NOT saying that he did not prescribe drugs for KJ (that ended up at Paisley). . That's attorney-speak .

[Edited 4/17/17 16:07pm]

But the warrant(s) say that Dr S actually MET with Prince before making out a prescription to KJ for the three medications (at least) that were found...

disch said:

Yup, I do think the Dr. prescribed the drugs for withdrawal management. I do not think he prescribed Valium as to treat Prince's "epilepsy." I do not believe there is a shred of reason to think epilepsy was a factor at the end of his life. One basic reason: He had active epilepsy but apparently no regular doctor treating it, just a GP-type Dr he saw a couple sporadic times in his final months who prescribed him a few drugs, among them Valium? Yeah, sounds like epilepsy treatment to me!

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laurarichardson said:

See the link http://prince.org/msg/7/440375?pr Also Prince mentioned it again on George Lopez. Also people do suffer with seziure there whole lives on and of My neighborhood is in her 50 and she has been having them since she was teen. I posted a link from the Epilepsy foundation listing the Valium as a drug for seziures but you know more than they do and I guess you are right up their with Dr. S and his 3 anxiety drugs for withdrawal management/hip pain. You need to stop being ignorant. --- disch said:

I don't think I know everything -- but I'm flattered to know you think I do!

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But no, I do not believe that what he said about his a health issues pre-age-7 is relevant to 50 years later. And the idea that his treatment plan for his epilepsy was Dr. S prescribing him valium in April is ridiculous.

[Edited 4/17/17 16:13pm]

1Sasha said:

The New York Daily News is reporting that Dr. S'S lawyer claims he never wrote an opioid script either directly or indirectly for Prince.

Really? Oh Crap. If that's true and they found the bottles with Kirk's name on them it could mean a couple of things...1. The script was really actually for Kirk and not Prince...2. Could be forged prescriptions.

rogifan said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Or for nausea caused by the flu

Around Christmas time when I slipped and fell on the ice hit my head and suffered a concussion I was given a prescription for Ondansetron for vomiting. The concussion gave me a massive headache which in turn caused me to start vomiting (bad headaches and vomiting often go hand in hand). All the comments here are proving my point. The information released today hasn't provided any answers it's only raised more questions and caused more speculation. And for what purpose? We are no closer to the truth today than we were yesterday. Sigh. 😔

The information today points strongly in the direction of Prince having opioid addiction/abuse. Again, addiction is not a character flaw; it is a disease. It requires treatment.

.

Also, it's clear that Kirk knew what was going on because the prescriptions were in his name.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Dibblekins said:

'On April 20, 2016, Johnson went to a Minnetonka Walgreens to pick up Prince's medication. He later told police that was the first time he had done anything like that for Prince.

A suitcase was discovered next to Prince's bed on April 21, 2016 (the day of Prince's death) and among the items inside, there were prescription pill bottles in Johnson's name -- none of which were the medication prescribed by Schulenberg.

One pill bottle, which was labeled Vitamin D, instead had the controlled substance Ondanselron Hydrochloride inside. Another, labeled Ondansetron, contained the controlled substance Acetarninophen/oxycodone hydrochloride.

The date those pills were prescribed to Johnson, according to the pill bottles, was April 7. The prescribing doctor was listed as Schulenberg'.

.

So, if I am reading this correctly, KJ lied to the police?

I am curious therefore as to why authorities are not taking this further..?

Me too! There is footage that showed Prince walking into Walgreens... This may have been mentioned already....but what stands out to me are the dates of April 7 was on one of the prescription bottles with Kirks name, that was the first date Prince had to cancel his Atlanta show because he felt ill. It seems Kirk was behind the bad perscriptions and possibly Dr S [Edited 4/17/17 16:03pm]

That stood out to me as well.

Dibblekins said:

Actually if it's true that the Dr is now saying he never prescribed drugs to Prince or to Kirk FOR Prince, maybe that's why the Dr. prescribed 3 anxiety drugs, because they were for Kirk, Not Prince.

laurarichardson said:

See the link http://prince.org/msg/7/440375?pr Also Prince mentioned it again on George Lopez. Also people do suffer with seziure there whole lives on and of My neighborhood is in her 50 and she has been having them since she was teen. I posted a link from the Epilepsy foundation listing the Valium as a drug for seziures but you know more than they do and I guess you are right up their with Dr. S and his 3 anxiety drugs for withdrawal management/hip pain. You need to stop being ignorant.

disch said:

I don't know what we can know about his physical pain situation in 2016 based on him having surgery six years earlier. I'm not saying he didn't have physical pain, but we have literally no real information about that (and yes, I've read all the associates statements about this. Unless the associate was having direct, regular contact in the last several months of his life, I just don't know that they can shed a ton of light on what was going on at the very end).

babynoz said:

Quoted for emphasis.

If you have never dealt with chronic pain issues then be thankful but you can't know what it's like if it hasn't happened to you.

I have lower back pain daily from an injury I sustained in 2007. Last year this time I could barely get out of bed.

I'm really crestfallen at the way people are minimizing chronic pain sufferers legitimate challenges. There are times that I've sat on the bed and literally cried because I was so tired of being in pain, but afraid to take meds because I don't want to become dependent.

I am in some degree of pain every single day and have to decide every morning if I can get along without meds that day. Most days Excedrin suffices but I have percs for the worst days.

As I have already pointed out. Prince has scarring consistent with having a hip procedure done according to the ME, so I can't imagine what kind of proof you are looking for? I don't know what else to say except that there is even less basis to say that he was medicating for any other reason.

What are you getting at and on what basis do you present an alternative scenario???

206Michelle said:

Giovanni777 said:

Does anyone find it odd that Prince's handwritten lyrics to "U Got The Look" were in the suitcase with the pills? The suitcase labeled "Peter Bravestrong", which was allegedly his travel suitcase.

Yes, I find this circumstance to be odd, also.

Not really. He could have simply been making a change to the setlist for the next show.

revolution75 said: