Mkilpatrick74 said:

laurarichardson said:

-/I said this a year ago and got blasted. The pain pills make the pain worst and it sounds like roller coaster ride to hell. I believe he had an RX at some point and overtime started taking to many. I believe he went off the books after getting cut off or he may have been trying ween himself off with Dr.S help. We just do not know the time line of events or what his overall health was like and what roll that played. I know he did not get 65k in medical expenses from illegal drugs.

Im sorry but i wish that would atop being floated bc it is not true. It does not make the pain worse. My pain level is just the same as it has been for years. In varying degrees depemdong on how many surgeries on my spine i had that year. Im at 12 now since 2008 with my moat recent 8 weeks ago.now what DOES happen is your body will eventually become immune/tolerant to your particular dose of medications therfore causing a need to increase ..... Its a never ending cycle. I am in the process of getting ready to start backing down my dose in very slow and small amounts to make sure i still even have anywhere to go in 10 years from now as far as dosage bc i know how tolerance and dependence works w my meds.

This information about it making the pain worst is coming from research some of which has been done by the Mayo Clinic. I doubt all people experience worsening pain but apparently some people do. These meds may not work well for some people.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said:

how good a source is that? who is adonis g?

That is the only one I could find left on here... There were/are more articles on here search ...Cameron strang will lead you to info

i just searched cameron strang/prince, didn't see much but i only looked for a sec.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

I get e-mail alerts from the Star Trubuine and I not seen one news report about people dying from Fentenyl mislabled pills if Prince brouhgt these pills in MN hiw come we did not see a mass outbreak of deaths and the old mgr of Gkan Slam died of a strait up overdose no mislabeling involved. said:

He also died of a fentanyl OD.

Yes, he died from a straigt Fentenyl overdose the pills he took where not mislabled they found no connection between him and Prince at all.

If there was a mass supply of mislabled Fentenyl in Minn how come we have not seen other people dying from mislabled pills in that city.

Mkilpatrick74 said:

laurarichardson said:

-- I am sorry for your situation but it sounds as if you are not abusing your Rx and the insinuation is that Prince was abusing these meds therefore I would imagine that the behavior of someone who is taking a controlled dosage would be very different from someone who was taking as many as they wanted and was doing it without an Rx.

U are right and i hate rhat insinuation. Cause honestly, to me, based on everything we have heard and seen of him, even tho he may have been getting them.om his own it sounds like his body was adjusted to and he wasnt abusing whatever he was taking. U know? If he was there is no way he could perform amd take care of business as usial without someone noticing or him being iff in some way. I feel like he just got a bad batch this last go around. His need for privacy ended up killing him.

Thank you. All I have been saying from the beginning is there is a big difference between taking a controlled dosage and being out of control on these meds. There is no way someone is stuffing mounds of pain pills in their mouth for decades and living as long as he did or not just being a zombie.

I think the need for privacy unfortunate may have had to do with money. Like I said before promoters have to take out insurance on artist. If anyone suspected he had joint problems he may have had trouble getting bookings and he made the bulk of his money from live performing.

In addition, who would want the world to give you a big pity party?

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

jayseajay said:

The books out now...I think it's worth reading, especially given that they have done new research into exactly what type of abuse P experienced from his stepfather, which is illuminating I think. With regard to him not performing, I don't think it's just a matter of him having his own way, I think it was literally necessary to his survival from a psychological point of view. When people say P was music, it's not an understatement - I really think he wouldn't have known how to get through the days without it...if you think about how much he played, it's insane...most rock stars kick back and enjoy the high life and knock out an album once every few years...they don't play and play and play and play until their body can't take anymore and then design a tour they can do sitting down so they can keep playing right until the very end....to me, that speaks of him really really needing to do it. And with regard to the suicide, I think he got overwhelmed, but I don't think he would ever have consciously chosen to go out like that. If P had deliberately chosen it, he would have been under satin sheets surrounded by vases of flowers...he would have done it like he always did everything, as an aesthetic act.

ok, thanks. i'll check it out. I doubt his stepfather was unusual as far as abuse in that era though. I had a black stepdad, he was pretty brutal too sometimes, wasn't unusual. beatings were seen as discipline by americans in earlier times and when you have the history of slavery and jim crow for black folk, you get a mixture of oppression and historical bad habits.

It wasn't beating, and it wasn't discipline, he was locked in a room, for almost a year, and only allowed out to eat and to go to school, and that's why he ran away, when he was twelve years old, and his mother did nothing to protect him as far as we know. I think that is unusual, and I think it affected him a great deal....I don't think we can account for a lot of Prince's behaviours unless we reckon with the fact that he was quite severely traumatized at quite a young age...

the fentanyl crisis right now isn't from prescriptions; it's from fentanyl being manufactured largely in china then making its way to the US black market to be sold either directly or added to other illicit opioids (counterfeit pills or heroin). I think fentanyl, unlike other opioids, is already prescribed pretty carefully.

-

I added a bunch of links above to news articles regarding the fentanyl crisis in Minn. (There have been posts on this thread scoffing at the idea that the nationwide mislabeled-counterfeit-opioid crisis is a problem in Minnesota; news reports indicate that in fact it is a Minn. problem. Of course, people seeking illegal opioids aren't restricted to the local markets, with internet sales widely available, so in 2017 you can't gauge availability just on the local market).

rogifan said:

I think a lot of these opioids should not be legal for doctors to prescribe, especially something as powerful as fentanyl. Of course the argument is those that want it will find a way to get it anyway. But the prescription drug epidemic didn't really start until after Oxycontin was approved by the FDA in the 90s.

[Edited 4/2/17 14:24pm]

delete...

[Edited 4/2/17 14:12pm]

jayseajay said:

PeteSilas said:

ok, thanks. i'll check it out. I doubt his stepfather was unusual as far as abuse in that era though. I had a black stepdad, he was pretty brutal too sometimes, wasn't unusual. beatings were seen as discipline by americans in earlier times and when you have the history of slavery and jim crow for black folk, you get a mixture of oppression and historical bad habits.

It wasn't beating, and it wasn't discipline, he was locked in a room, for almost a year, and only allowed out to eat and to go to school, and that's why he ran away, when he was twelve years old, and his mother did nothing to protect him as far as we know. I think that is unusual, and I think it affected him a great deal....I don't think we can account for a lot of Prince's behaviours unless we reckon with the fact that he was quite severely traumatized at quite a young age...

He also said in an interview that his step dad did not want him playing music and had him doing stupid chores like pulling dandeloins out of the yard.Let's be honest his stepday did not like him and mom did not stand up for him. Tyka said that once they both ran away from home and no one came looking for either one of them. I mean you got to ask yourself what kind of people let their kid live with a neighbor while his Dad took in Duane who was not even his son.

jayseajay said:

Sorry the pain pill crisis got started because doctors were over prescribing these meds. This has been discussed in the media and on this board dozens of times. Doctors were even getting bonuses for prescribing them for all sorts of aliments. I do not believe for one minute out of all the drugs Prince could be using he choose pain pills because they were the hip thing to do. I believe he started with an Rx like millions of other people. As long as money is being made by Big Pharma this aspect of the issue will not be dealt with and a lot of attention will go toward punishment of users in the streets and blaming it on China.

disch said:

the fentanyl crisis right now isn't from prescriptions; it's from fentanyl being manufactured largely in china then making its way to the US black market to be sold either directly or added to other illicit opioids (counterfeit pills or heroin). I think fentanyl, unlike other opioids, is already prescribed pretty carefully.

-

I added a bunch of links above to news articles regarding the fentanyl crisis in Minn. (There have been posts on this thread dismissing that the nationwide mislabeled-counterfeit-opioid crisis as a problem in Minnesota, a position contradicted by news reports. Of course, people seeking illegal opioids are restricted to the local markets, with internet sales widely available, so in 2017 you can't gauge availability just on the local market).

rogifan said:

I think a lot of these opioids should not be legal for doctors to prescribe, especially something as powerful as fentanyl. Of course the argument is those that want it will find a way to get it anyway. But the prescription drug epidemic didn't really start until after Oxycontin was approved by the FDA in the 90s.

[Edited 4/2/17 14:21pm]

Sorry, sounds like you misunderstood my post. I was referring to the source of one specific opioid -- fentanyl -- not the opioid crisis generally. The fentanyl crisis is a particular, deadly subset of the opioid epidemic with its own market forces. The reason that fentanyl has become such an issue is because of user demand for opioids, a demand which big pharma has largely caused. That's why I added "unlike other opioids."

laurarichardson said:

Sorry the pain pill crisis got started because doctors were over prescribing these meds. This has been discussed in the media and on this board dozens of times. Doctors were even getting bonuses for prescribing them for all sorts of aliments. I do not believe for one minute out of all the drugs Prince could be using he choose pain pills because they were the hip thing to do. I believe he started with an Rx like millions of other people. As long as money is being made by Big Pharma this aspect of the issue will not be dealt with and a lot of attention will go toward punishment of users in the streets and blaming it on China.

disch said:

the fentanyl crisis right now isn't from prescriptions; it's from fentanyl being manufactured largely in china then making its way to the US black market to be sold either directly or added to other illicit opioids (counterfeit pills or heroin). I think fentanyl, unlike other opioids, is already prescribed pretty carefully.

-

I added a bunch of links above to news articles regarding the fentanyl crisis in Minn. (There have been posts on this thread dismissing that the nationwide mislabeled-counterfeit-opioid crisis as a problem in Minnesota, a position contradicted by news reports. Of course, people seeking illegal opioids are restricted to the local markets, with internet sales widely available, so in 2017 you can't gauge availability just on the local market).

[Edited 4/2/17 14:21pm]

[Edited 4/2/17 14:31pm]

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

jayseajay said:

It wasn't beating, and it wasn't discipline, he was locked in a room, for almost a year, and only allowed out to eat and to go to school, and that's why he ran away, when he was twelve years old, and his mother did nothing to protect him as far as we know. I think that is unusual, and I think it affected him a great deal....I don't think we can account for a lot of Prince's behaviours unless we reckon with the fact that he was quite severely traumatized at quite a young age...

Sadly that happened in all races...not just one.

yes, i know that, but you'd have to know how black men were in that generation to know what i'm talking about. They were harder men, they were harsher and they were angry. Just ask some of the folks here. So, you have all the crazy european rules of child discipline PLUS all the craziness of the slavery and the jim crow eras all in one. It's a lot to deal with, believe me, i was on the recieving end of it. Prince was not alone. He knew that too. My sister was put on restriction for months at a time for not washing a plate good enough or whatever and she was beaten, she did not turn out like Prince, she became an alcoholic and a prostitute and died at 29.

anyway, we're getting off topic, i do agree that Prince had never really learned to deal with a lot of things. I also think, he was a tough, tough man, he didn't want people feeling sorry for him like Michael Jackson often courted. He never thought it was cool to show weakness. A survival strategy? Sure. How much that was responsible for his death? whos' to say. Right now, there are several scenarios, I still suicide is a possible one. but you guys bring up a great point, his inability to show weakness, to get help when it was supposedly just down the road from him, just indicates he was too ashamed and fearful of word getting out of his problem. It's still a mystery.

said:

What's this hoo-ha really all about? Prince showed many symptoms of having gone off the rails mentally many years before his death, don't you think?

Exactually he appeard to pull himself togeher after the year 2000. I also do not think saying one is going off the rails after some of that crap that happend to him is really fair. They fact that he made it as far as he did and accompolished as much as he did is quite phenomenal.

nonesuch said:

What's this hoo-ha really all about? Prince showed many symptoms of having gone off the rails mentally many years before his death, don't you think?

laurarichardson said:

Fentnyl has been overprescribed. Given to people who recovering from routine surgeries and broken arms. said:

Sorry, sounds like you misunderstood my post. I was referring to the source of one specific opioid -- fentanyl -- not the opioid crisis generally. The fentanyl crisis is a particular, deadly subset of the opioid epidemic with its own market forces. The reason that fentanyl has become such an issue is because of user demand for opioids, a demand which big pharma has largely caused. That's why I added "unlike other opioids."

[Edited 4/2/17 14:31pm]

I wonder how much overprescribing of painkillers has to do with the need to be able to return to work or recover while working. In the current economy, a lot of people just don't have much job security. I wonder if job security may be the lowest it has been since WWII. Also, back before the invention of major social welfare programs like Social Security and unemployment insurance, the USA was a much more rural society. I also agree that Big Pharma has a lot to do with the prevalence of painkillers.

206Michelle said:

laurarichardson said:

Fentnyl has been overprescribed. Given to people who recovering from routine surgeries and broken arms. said:

I wonder how much overprescribing of painkillers has to do with the need to be able to return to work or recover while working. In the current economy, a lot of people just don't have much job security. I wonder if job security may be the lowest it has been since WWII. Also, back before the invention of major social welfare programs like Social Security and unemployment insurance, the USA was a much more rural society. I also agree that Big Pharma has a lot to do with the prevalence of painkillers.

I am sure it has a lot to do with it. Our whole society is focused on making people machines who should never God forbid get ill and miss a day of work.

PeteSilas said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

jayseajay said: Sadly that happened in all races...not just one.

yes, i know that, but you'd have to know how black men were in that generation to know what i'm talking about. They were harder men, they were harsher and they were angry. Just ask some of the folks here. So, you have all the crazy european rules of child discipline PLUS all the craziness of the slavery and the jim crow eras all in one. It's a lot to deal with, believe me, i was on the recieving end of it. Prince was not alone. He knew that too. My sister was put on restriction for months at a time for not washing a plate good enough or whatever and she was beaten, she did not turn out like Prince, she became an alcoholic and a prostitute and died at 29.

anyway, we're getting off topic, i do agree that Prince had never really learned to deal with a lot of things. I also think, he was a tough, tough man, he didn't want people feeling sorry for him like Michael Jackson often courted. He never thought it was cool to show weakness. A survival strategy? Sure. How much that was responsible for his death? whos' to say. Right now, there are several scenarios, I still suicide is a possible one. but you guys bring up a great point, his inability to show weakness, to get help when it was supposedly just down the road from him, just indicates he was too ashamed and fearful of word getting out of his problem. It's still a mystery.

I do not think he knew how to show weakness. He once said he felt like he raised himself since he was 12. If you feel you have to look after yourself at a young age and have no one you can depend on you are not going to be weak.

You do not make it in the industry like he did by being weak.

laurarichardson said:

I do not think he knew how to show weakness. He once said he felt like he raised himself since he was 12. If you feel you have to look after yourself at a young age and have no one you can depend on you are not going to be weak.

You do not make it in the industry like he did by being weak.

That's right.

laurarichardson said:

PeteSilas said:

yes, i know that, but you'd have to know how black men were in that generation to know what i'm talking about. They were harder men, they were harsher and they were angry. Just ask some of the folks here. So, you have all the crazy european rules of child discipline PLUS all the craziness of the slavery and the jim crow eras all in one. It's a lot to deal with, believe me, i was on the recieving end of it. Prince was not alone. He knew that too. My sister was put on restriction for months at a time for not washing a plate good enough or whatever and she was beaten, she did not turn out like Prince, she became an alcoholic and a prostitute and died at 29.

anyway, we're getting off topic, i do agree that Prince had never really learned to deal with a lot of things. I also think, he was a tough, tough man, he didn't want people feeling sorry for him like Michael Jackson often courted. He never thought it was cool to show weakness. A survival strategy? Sure. How much that was responsible for his death? whos' to say. Right now, there are several scenarios, I still suicide is a possible one. but you guys bring up a great point, his inability to show weakness, to get help when it was supposedly just down the road from him, just indicates he was too ashamed and fearful of word getting out of his problem. It's still a mystery.

I do not think he knew how to show weakness. He once said he felt like he raised himself since he was 12. If you feel you have to look after yourself at a young age and have no one you can depend on you are not going to be weak.

You do not make it in the industry like he did by being weak.

I agree with what you are saying here, for the most part. However, the ability to admit weakness or show vulnerability at appropriate times shows strength. A person shows strength when s/he admits that s/he needs help. The willingness to ask for help acknowledges that one is not perfect and that seeking help can help the person improve in areas of weakness or vulnerability or weakness. In otherwords, sometimes admitting weakness is necessary in order to become stronger or to make necessary changes in one's life.

laurarichardson said:

sonshine said:

laurarichardson said:

Sorry the pain pill crisis got started because doctors were over prescribing these meds. This has been discussed in the media and on this board dozens of times. Doctors were even getting bonuses for prescribing them for all sorts of aliments. I do not believe for one minute out of all the drugs Prince could be using he choose pain pills because they were the hip thing to do. I believe he started with an Rx like millions of other people. As long as money is being made by Big Pharma this aspect of the issue will not be dealt with and a lot of attention will go toward punishment of users in the streets and blaming it on China.

This is not true. You made it up or believe someone else who made it up without proof. None of the physicians I have ever worked with the last 30 years received any kickbacks from any pharmaceutical company. In fact such things are are strictly regulated. Pharma reps can't even leave us pens! So your statement is FALSE information. And don't kid yourself. Patients come in every day asking specifically for their opiate of choice. Not because it's "hip". It's because they love the stuff. That's the bad part.

One article below out of dozens. This was even discussed on this board around this time last year.

You do some reading and come back and discuss. Oh I am happy to know that you have not encountered this but it has happened.I do not have to make up anything.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/03/17/470679452/drug-company-payments-mirror-doctors-brand-name-prescribing

206Michelle said:

laurarichardson said:

I do not think he knew how to show weakness. He once said he felt like he raised himself since he was 12. If you feel you have to look after yourself at a young age and have no one you can depend on you are not going to be weak.

You do not make it in the industry like he did by being weak.

I agree with what you are saying here, for the most part. However, the ability to admit weakness or show vulnerability at appropriate times shows strength. A person shows strength when s/he admits that s/he needs help. The willingness to ask for help acknowledges that one is not perfect and that seeking help can help the person improve in areas of weakness or vulnerability or weakness. In otherwords, sometimes admitting weakness is necessary in order to become stronger or to make necessary changes in one's life.

I understand what you are saying but I think you are leaving out what effect his upbringing had on him and culturally black men are not down with showing weakness.

I am sure his whole life he was told he was weak. He was short, skinny, and a light skin dude. I believe he was hyper about his masculinity because of these thinks.

sonshine said:

But this article address death in the Fargo area and talks about stolen patches. If Prince or one of his associates brought these pills in Minneapolis would other people not have died as well. In the weeks before or after and I do not mean a few. I do not think that whoever made these pills made a small batch for Prince's personal use. I do not think he got these pills in Minnesota.

laytonian said:

Laurarichardson -- The Star Tribune has been warning about mislabeled pills -- even before P died. This article is from April 4, 2016 ----- note that it is three days before he went to Dr S for help: http://m.startribune.com/...374352711/ [Edited 4/2/17 18:04pm]

laurarichardson said: