PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said:

i don't think murder theories can go anywhere. one interesting thing that i saw in the gq thing was that maya washington mentions that he was paranoid, prince had complained about dry cleaners leaving bar codes or something on his clothes, it sounds wierd and loopy, maybe his mental state wasn't what we think it might have been.

He had said he received death threats throughout his career.

when did he say that and what's the source. I believe you, just asking. All the stars get death threats, Elvis had some comical moments trying to fight off wacko's who were usually just fans but he'd be pulling out automatic weapons and scream "come on motherfuckers". He even once kicked a fan onstage who he thought was an assasin. They all have to go through that, John Lennon of course was murdered, Jackie Wilson was almost murdered by a jealous woman, I didn't know it but george harrison was almost stabbed to death by some lunatic at the end of his life, bob marley was too but his thing was probably more politically motivated. At any rate, most "threats" are empty, if you don't believe me check out how many the us pres gets a year.

sonshine said:

rogifan said:

I try to stay away from the drug thing and speculation but how much of this crisis with fentanyl is from those with chronic pain or other illness vs. people substituting it for heroin? If someone has chronic neck or back pain would their doctor be prescribing them fentanyl? I tend to be skeptical of most of the rumors around Prince's death but it is believable to me that he didn't know he was taking fentanyl and perhaps that's one reason it was classified as an accidental overdoes.

This is what I believe as well. At least more than anything else that's been posted. I don't have official records only my personal experience. The crisis started with treating patients with complaints of pain with these medications and specifically oxycontin. That was a game changer. Doctors were misled about its use and safety. It's a long story. But fast forward and now you have a nation of people hooked on opiates. Doctors are left to sort out the real patients from the drug seekers. As that happens and folks get cut off at the doctors office they go to the streets. Where they seek pills but have had to resort to heroin. That's not really new it's just taken awhile to become mainstream news. Now more recently the stakes have been raised with the addition of fentanyl. I don't really know if they consider chronic pain patients in their "crisis". Doctors do indeed prescribe fentanyl (usually patches) along with a number of other opiate medications for managing their patients with chronic pain. Some of them even end up OD'ing by accident too, but generally it's because they mixed their meds with alcohol (huge no-no) or took them other than as prescribed. Patients who follow their doctors advice will generally do fine.

what i don't get is why would the controlling, mindful guy we knew as Prince put himself in a position to risk things like that, two od's in a weeks time is reckless no matter how you cut it. That's why I think there were other reasons he was willing to risk it, having to do with knowing his days were numbered anyways.

PeteSilas said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said: He had said he received death threats throughout his career.

when did he say that and what's the source. I believe you, just asking. All the stars get death threats, Elvis had some comical moments trying to fight off wacko's who were usually just fans but he'd be pulling out automatic weapons and scream "come on motherfuckers". He even once kicked a fan onstage who he thought was an assasin. They all have to go through that, John Lennon of course was murdered, Jackie Wilson was almost murdered by a jealous woman, I didn't know it but george harrison was almost stabbed to death by some lunatic at the end of his life, bob marley was too but his thing was probably more politically motivated. At any rate, most "threats" are empty, if you don't believe me check out how many the us pres gets a year.

All threats have to be taken seriously. The fact that people even think to make empty threats is distubing and not a joke.

PeteSilas said:

if you take em that serious you'll go crazy. anyone in the public eye gets those, the best you can do is take precautions and have security. Muhammad Ali used to drive his security nuts because the man was absolutely fearless, he'd sneak out the back of hotels just to spite his own people. Prince couldn't have been all that paranoid over the years, he let all kinds of nutty fans run all over paisley park like they owned it. I know about the enquirer stories in the 80s and also the elizabeth taylor story where he had his boys run through the bushes but he seems to have gotten over that to some degree.

Here's your word of the day for April 1, 2017: cognitive dissonance. Therein lies the key to your confusion!

Or in lay-terms, You Didn't Know Prince!. You were a consumer of Brand Prince™

You people really need to do yourselves a favor and snap out of your fantasies that you and Prince were BFFs simply by virtue of you being a repeat customer.

The sooner you accept the reality that you never actually knew Prince Rogers Nelson The Regular Joe Schmoe, the sooner your fog of confusion and bewilderment will clear. Maybe then, will you finally Get it.

laurarichardson said:

I get e-mail alerts from the Star Trubuine and I not seen one news report about people dying from Fentenyl mislabled pills if Prince brouhgt these pills in MN hiw come we did not see a mass outbreak of deaths and the old mgr of Gkan Slam died of a strait up overdose no mislabeling involved. said:

He also died of a fentanyl OD.

PeteSilas said:

I know that when you say, "the streets" sonshine, that you probably don't mean the actual "streets".

It is worth repeating, that these days, "the digital streets" are named after numbers <a.k.a. "I.P. addresses">.

These days we have other way less conspicuous channels from which to source counterfeit pills.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

I get e-mail alerts from the Star Trubuine and I not seen one news report about people dying from Fentenyl mislabled pills if Prince brouhgt these pills in MN hiw come we did not see a mass outbreak of deaths and the old mgr of GlmSlam died of a strait up overdose no mislabeling involved. said:

He also died of a fentanyl OD.

I read that he was only 48 and died within 2 months of Prince.

ya, i'm aware of that i was referring to the 60's incident where a woman shot him in jealousy. That may or may not have had something to do with his later health problems, i don't know. He probably drank and drugged because a man that young and active shouldn't be having major heart attacks.

Identity said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I read that he was only 48 and died within 2 months of Prince.

PeterSilas said:

Jackie Wilson was almost murdered by a jealous woman.

Jackie Wilson suffered a massive heart attack on stage and died years later from complications of pneumonia.

Militant said:

My take on it, if we believe it to be accidental - the Narcan shots removed Prince's tolerance for the pain medication he was on. With no tolerance, a small or regular dose overwhelms you.

I keep thinking he could have saved himself had he remained hospitalized. I've never heard of anyone discharging themselves soon after a near-death experience. That's crazy dangerous.

Identity said:

Militant said:

My take on it, if we believe it to be accidental - the Narcan shots removed Prince's tolerance for the pain medication he was on. With no tolerance, a small or regular dose overwhelms you.

I keep thinking he could have saved himself had he remained hospitalized. I've never heard of anyone discharging themselves soon after a near-death experience. That's crazy dangerous.

Not crazy for someone who was in control of every aspect of his life.

I understand his reasoning.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said:

when did he say that and what's the source. I believe you, just asking. All the stars get death threats, Elvis had some comical moments trying to fight off wacko's who were usually just fans but he'd be pulling out automatic weapons and scream "come on motherfuckers". He even once kicked a fan onstage who he thought was an assasin. They all have to go through that, John Lennon of course was murdered, Jackie Wilson was almost murdered by a jealous woman, I didn't know it but george harrison was almost stabbed to death by some lunatic at the end of his life, bob marley was too but his thing was probably more politically motivated. At any rate, most "threats" are empty, if you don't believe me check out how many the us pres gets a year.

There were a few articles that came out one dated as far back as Purple Rain, big Chick was his bodyguard and he mentioned Prince received many death threats. It may have even been covered on the radio show nothing compares to u. The link below is about the more recent death threatS Prince received after getting his masters back. http://celebnmusic247.com...sed-music/

how good a source is that? who is adonis g?

PeteSilas said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said:

how good a source is that? who is adonis g?

That is the only one I could find left on here... There were/are more articles on here search ...Cameron strang will lead you to info

ok, thanks, i just read some early reviews for Hahn's upcoming book, one said that Hahn somehow insinuates it was suicide, wonder what he writes to create that impression.

sonshine said:

PeteSilas said:

what i don't get is why would the controlling, mindful guy we knew as Prince put himself in a position to risk things like that, two od's in a weeks time is reckless no matter how you cut it. That's why I think there were other reasons he was willing to risk it, having to do with knowing his days were numbered anyways.

All I can say is it speaks to the danger and power of opiates that they could get over on him. Obviously his decision to self-medicate was unwise and if anything it's the piece of this that's hardest to reconcile. Why didn't he let health care professionals help him manage his issues with pain or whatever? I wish I could be as sure as you about his days being numbered and his acceptance of it. There is too much that makes me believe he was not ready, nor expecting, to leave anytime soon.

Right. I think one of the things it's interesting to remember is that the opiate epidemic is a US phenomenon, because it is only in the US that doctors were somehow convinced that opiates could be safely prescribed if given for 'legitimate' pain...I don't understand quite how it was possible to convince doctors that addictive drugs were not addicitve...I suspect one reason it didn't happen in Europe is because we had an epidemic of addiction to medically prescribed opiates (laudanum) in the the 19th Century, which also, like in the US, led to the creation of a non-medical market/epidemic...(all those dodgy opium dens in Dickensian London). You cannot get prescibed take home opiates here (in the UK) for anything less than cancer/palliative care...there is no presciption for chronic pain management at all...it's considered to be just too dangerous. With regard to his decision to self-medicate, it is hard to understand in some respects (at least with regard to how opposed he was to drug use in general), but I think it does make sense if we think about how necessary performing was to him, not only financially, but most importantly, as his most basic survival strategy in life. It's what he had always done, it was how he survived his childhood, how he made himself into who he was, how he dealt with himself emotionally etc. I just don't think stopping was an option for him. It's like that thing with atheletes when they have to retire...except probably more so... I guess I don't find it hard to believe he would chose to do whatever he thought he had to do to get on stage, and was to some extent prepared to take the consequences rather than stop performing...(if he even thought about the consequences, although, it's quite likely he didn't spend too much time thinking about that and just did it and went on as he always went on...).

PeteSilas said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said: That is the only one I could find left on here... There were/are more articles on here search ...Cameron strang will lead you to info

ok, thanks, i just read some early reviews for Hahn's upcoming book, one said that Hahn somehow insinuates it was suicide, wonder what he writes to create that impression.

I don't think he insinuates that at all. His argument is that P was quite emotionally repressive, and that his use of opiates fits with a pattern of dealing with problems by trying to make them go away...and I think that's a pretty convincing interpretation.

jayseajay said:

PeteSilas said:

ok, thanks, i just read some early reviews for Hahn's upcoming book, one said that Hahn somehow insinuates it was suicide, wonder what he writes to create that impression.

I don't think he insinuates that at all. His argument is that P was quite emotionally repressive, and that his use of opiates fits with a pattern of dealing with problems by trying to make them go away...and I think that's a pretty convincing interpretation.

i was merely mentioning what one reviewer said, i didn't know anyone had access to the book as of yet and Hahn isn't a great source but I'd agree with Prince not dealing with things directly all the time. I just can't wrap my head around it but you know, i've never been an drug addict. I have had things I've loved and had to give up so, i guess it's not fair for me, a guy who's used to not having things he wants and a guy like Prince, who is used to getting his way but he had to know what he was up against. I still think suicide was a possibility but not without good reason, he had to be in awful pain or just thought that his body would give out soon anyway.

phatphuk said:

I know that when you say, "the streets" sonshine, that you probably don't mean the actual "streets".

It is worth repeating, that these days, "the digital streets" are named after numbers <a.k.a. "I.P. addresses">.

These days we have other way less conspicuous channels from which to source counterfeit pills.

You are correct. Thank you

PeteSilas said:

jayseajay said:

I don't think he insinuates that at all. His argument is that P was quite emotionally repressive, and that his use of opiates fits with a pattern of dealing with problems by trying to make them go away...and I think that's a pretty convincing interpretation.

i was merely mentioning what one reviewer said, i didn't know anyone had access to the book as of yet and Hahn isn't a great source but I'd agree with Prince not dealing with things directly all the time. I just can't wrap my head around it but you know, i've never been an drug addict. I have had things I've loved and had to give up so, i guess it's not fair for me, a guy who's used to not having things he wants and a guy like Prince, who is used to getting his way but he had to know what he was up against. I still think suicide was a possibility but not without good reason, he had to be in awful pain or just thought that his body would give out soon anyway.

The books out now...I think it's worth reading, especially given that they have done new research into exactly what type of abuse P experienced from his stepfather, which is illuminating I think. With regard to him not performing, I don't think it's just a matter of him having his own way, I think it was literally necessary to his survival from a psychological point of view. When people say P was music, it's not an understatement - I really think he wouldn't have known how to get through the days without it...if you think about how much he played, it's insane...most rock stars kick back and enjoy the high life and knock out an album once every few years...they don't play and play and play and play until their body can't take anymore and then design a tour they can do sitting down so they can keep playing right until the very end....to me, that speaks of him really really needing to do it. And with regard to the suicide, I think he got overwhelmed, but I don't think he would ever have consciously chosen to go out like that. If P had deliberately chosen it, he would have been under satin sheets surrounded by vases of flowers...he would have done it like he always did everything, as an aesthetic act.

For those who doubt that the opioid/fentanyl crises are real (or at least that they're real in Minnesota, or that they might be related in any way to Prince's death), here's some interesting headlines that may give you thought:

-

Counterfeit pills containing Fentanyl on rise in Twin Cities: http://www.fox9.com/news/...3189-story (from Oct 25, 2016)

-

Nearly 500 pills believed to be laced with fentanyl found in Grand Forks region, police say: (From a major bust 2 days ago in the Minnesota/North Dakota border city): http://www.startribune.co...417865113/

-

Drugs Seized in Minnesota Reach Record Highs: From March 6: "Prescription pill seizures, including opioids, increased by 231-percent in 2016 over the previous year...Evidence submissions to the BCA containing fentanyl increased from 14 in 2014 and 2015 to 75 in 2016." http://www.fox21online.co...ord-highs/

-

And also note that people who seek black-market opioid pills are not restricted to their neigborhood drug dealers; nowadays, people can buy anything online (see: dark web). And someone like Prince who traveled all over the country/world would have physical access to many different markets.

[Edited 4/2/17 8:07am]

jayseajay said:

PeteSilas said:

ok, thanks, i just read some early reviews for Hahn's upcoming book, one said that Hahn somehow insinuates it was suicide, wonder what he writes to create that impression.

I don't think he insinuates that at all. His argument is that P was quite emotionally repressive, and that his use of opiates fits with a pattern of dealing with problems by trying to make them go away...and I think that's a pretty convincing interpretation.

There is actually an interview i read where Prince states that if there is something he didn"t like and cant control then he pretends it didn'occur

80tomato said:

jayseajay said:

I don't think he insinuates that at all. His argument is that P was quite emotionally repressive, and that his use of opiates fits with a pattern of dealing with problems by trying to make them go away...and I think that's a pretty convincing interpretation.

There is actually an interview i read where Prince states that if there is something he didn"t like and cant control then he pretends it didn'occur

Yeah, I remember reading that somewhere too....it's a possible explanation about how things could have gone so badly wrong - he just pretended it wasn't really happening until it was much too late . And one of the rumour pieces from the mid noughties about him using painpills said 'he's taking painkillers and hoping it will just go away'...which may be BS, as it's an unnamed source, but it totally fits his MO. And I was reminded of it the other day as well when Tyka said she doesn't like to cry over her brother's death as he didn't like her to cry...

laurarichardson said:

80tomato said:

muleFunk said:

Dr. Drew knows less than we do about this case.

There were less than 30 Watson labeled pills that were in different bottles some were mixed with Aleve and Advil bottles. Nothing at the Park was labeled Fentanyl.

Ithink he was ill and wished to die Tyka did say he "needed to go"...i think he tried to do it on the plane and when that failed he made sure no one was around and suceeded ,,,and being Prince he put his clothes on backward (if that really is the case ) and went in the elevator and punched a higher floor just because he is Prince RIP

According to Judith Hill, he was in the middle of having conversations on the plane and just passed out. She also said when he came to he said it was the "most scared he had ever been in his life - trying to find his way back to their voices". Does not sound like someone who was intentionally trying to do anything to himself...

jayseajay said:

PeteSilas said:

ok, thanks, i just read some early reviews for Hahn's upcoming book, one said that Hahn somehow insinuates it was suicide, wonder what he writes to create that impression.

I don't think he insinuates that at all. His argument is that P was quite emotionally repressive, and that his use of opiates fits with a pattern of dealing with problems by trying to make them go away...and I think that's a pretty convincing interpretation.

Prince was definitely emotionally repressive. He absolutely had a pattern of handling traumas and problems by trying to avoid or escape them. He wrote songs about some really traumatic experiences/themes, e.g. Papa, Sister, Comeback, and Until U're in My Arms Again. But writing about something isn't always enough. For example, the emotion and disturbing detail in the song Papa can only come from experience, in my opinion. Prince may not have experienced verbatim what he describes in that song, but the details in Papa come in some way from his experience.

--

It's often necessary for people to seek professional help (therapy) so that they can learn to retrain their brains to develop coping skills instead of seeking out maladaptive coping mechanisms like using substances or engaging in maladaptive behaviors like aggression or cutting. I'm not sure how much professional help Prince ever sought out or received for psychological issues.

jayseajay said:

PeteSilas said:

i was merely mentioning what one reviewer said, i didn't know anyone had access to the book as of yet and Hahn isn't a great source but I'd agree with Prince not dealing with things directly all the time. I just can't wrap my head around it but you know, i've never been an drug addict. I have had things I've loved and had to give up so, i guess it's not fair for me, a guy who's used to not having things he wants and a guy like Prince, who is used to getting his way but he had to know what he was up against. I still think suicide was a possibility but not without good reason, he had to be in awful pain or just thought that his body would give out soon anyway.

The books out now...I think it's worth reading, especially given that they have done new research into exactly what type of abuse P experienced from his stepfather, which is illuminating I think. With regard to him not performing, I don't think it's just a matter of him having his own way, I think it was literally necessary to his survival from a psychological point of view. When people say P was music, it's not an understatement - I really think he wouldn't have known how to get through the days without it...if you think about how much he played, it's insane...most rock stars kick back and enjoy the high life and knock out an album once every few years...they don't play and play and play and play until their body can't take anymore and then design a tour they can do sitting down so they can keep playing right until the very end....to me, that speaks of him really really needing to do it. And with regard to the suicide, I think he got overwhelmed, but I don't think he would ever have consciously chosen to go out like that. If P had deliberately chosen it, he would have been under satin sheets surrounded by vases of flowers...he would have done it like he always did everything, as an aesthetic act.

ok, thanks. i'll check it out. I doubt his stepfather was unusual as far as abuse in that era though. I had a black stepdad, he was pretty brutal too sometimes, wasn't unusual. beatings were seen as discipline by americans in earlier times and when you have the history of slavery and jim crow for black folk, you get a mixture of oppression and historical bad habits.

206Michelle said:

jayseajay said:

I don't think he insinuates that at all. His argument is that P was quite emotionally repressive, and that his use of opiates fits with a pattern of dealing with problems by trying to make them go away...and I think that's a pretty convincing interpretation.

Prince was definitely emotionally repressive. He absolutely had a pattern of handling traumas and problems by trying to avoid or escape them. He wrote songs about some really traumatic experiences/themes, e.g. Papa, Sister, Comeback, and Until U're in My Arms Again. But writing about something isn't always enough. For example, the emotion and disturbing detail in the song Papa can only come from experience, in my opinion. Prince may not have experienced verbatim what he describes in that song, but the details in Papa come in some way from his experience.

--

It's often necessary for people to seek professional help (therapy) so that they can learn to retrain their brains to develop coping skills instead of seeking out maladaptive coping mechanisms like using substances or engaging in maladaptive behaviors like aggression or cutting. I'm not sure how much professional help Prince ever sought out or received for psychological issues.

i always doubted sister was biographical, hope it wasn't because it's nasty. but prince did mention in the oprah interview that he met with a counselor, sounded like a quack who tried to convince him he had a split personality. I don't trust the field myself. So what do we do? sometimes, like Prince, just do the best you can.